Robert A. Hawkins
There was one feeling that was saturating Robert Hawkins on the morning of the 5th of November, 2007.
Rage.
Never considered an attractive kid, 19-year-old Robert Hawkins, a high-school dropout, was a state ward as of the 17th of September, 2002, had a crappy job at McDonald’s and a bad case of acne.
Finding it difficult to live with his mother and stepfather, Robert Hawkins’s parents kicked him out of their Omaha home.
Robert Hawkins was most recently living with some friends at their parent’s house in Bellevue, Nebraska.
Debora Maruka-Kovac, the mother of Robert Hawkins’s friends and his landlord, said she took Hawkins in because he had emotional issues and she wanted to provide him a safe place to stay.
He was very troubled. I had no idea this troubled. I just can’t believe it. I just can’t believe it. He’s a friend of my son’s from school. He’s living at a couple of different places. We took him in. We had two boys. We thought: what was one more if we could help?
He enjoyed hunting, as many Nebraskan kids do.
He also had problems controlling his temper, as outcast-types with no anchor tying them to the rest of society sometimes do. Robert Hawkins had a prescription for and was taking antidepressants.
As life rolled on, with no real prospects for a bright future, and no direction, Robert Hawkins began making worse and worse choices.
On the 24th of November, 2007, Robert Hawkins was arrested on a charge of being a minor in possession of alcohol. His scheduled arraignment was on the 19th of December.
He didn’t make it.
McDonald’s decided that Robert Hawkins wasn’t “arch material” and let him go. Why they did this is still unknown, as McDonald’s management has refused to comment, but the importance of employee background checks to reveal possible security risks is fairly well illustrated in this instance.
Robert was not pleased by this. Not at all.
Upon learning of his termination on the morning of the 5th of November, Robert Hawkins was visibly upset, according to Debra.
He said he’d gotten fired and was pretty upset and said, ‘This is the only way,’ and we tried to talk to him. He was just a very troubled. I had no idea that he was this troubled. I don’t know if it was because he got fired from McDonald’s.
Well, Robert Hawkins had a stolen assault rifle that he had taken from stepfather. Debra had seen the rifle on the night of the 4th of December, but thought nothing of it, thinking that Robert and her kids were going to go out hunting the next day.
Robert did.
After leaving a note for his landlord, explaining that he didn’t want to be a burden to people, that “I’m a piece of shit and now I’m going to be famous,” and that he wanted to “go out in style,” Robert Hawkins and his rifle got into his car and drove for a bit.
They drove to the Westroads Mall in Omaha, which is situated right off the 680 freeway where it meets Dodge Street.
Once there, at about 20 minutes until 2 in the afternoon, Robert Hawkins and his rifle walked into Von Maur, an upscale department store.
His rifle was nicely wrapped in a sweatshirt as he took the elevator to the third floor of Von Maur, which features children’s clothing, customer service and underwear.
As Robert Hawkins took the sweatshirt off his rifle, it might have been the first time anyone ever took him seriously. Brandishing a gun tends to make people take you seriously, which is why they’re so often used by weak, pathetic individuals to force other people to accede to their demands.
After all, can you imagine Robert Hawkins going into a department store without a gun, and anyone quaking in their boots when he passed by?
Robert Hawkins demanded attention, and for six minutes he got it, as he walked through the third floor of Von Maur, firing indiscriminately at targets of opportunity, going through two 30-round magazines.
He wasn’t a particularly accurate marksman, only hitting 14 people and killing 8 of them – but I’m sure that tidbit of information isn’t especially comforting to the families of the people Robert Hawkins’s adolescent temper tantrum took away from them.
As with most cowards, Robert Hawkins didn’t dare face the music when his temper tantrum was over.
Robert shot himself before police showed up on the scene, too pathetic and scared to live another moment.
Does Robert Hawkins deserve Hell?
- Yes (64%, 1,110 Votes)
- No (36%, 629 Votes)
Total Voters: 1,737
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360 Comments »
He was fired November 5th and went on a killing rampage exactly one month later?
I bet this kid watched alot of movies and ws never a Boy Scout.
It’s too bad kids are “too young” to see the WHOLE picture. They think a zit on their face is the end of the world and need to be taught how trivial their current worries become when they grow and mature!
if you knew what he when through when he was younger you would understand why he did it. It wasn’t all over a zit on his face. his parents always fought and he learned from that. he acted like them. then when his parents divorced he was stuck with a step mother who needed to be slapped. After some time he ended up in a ward for a good long while. It was one thing after another that caused him to do go into a mall and shoot it up and kill himself. try researching shit before you say that it was over a zit.
I grew up in a house where it was normal for my mum and dad to be fighting. Dad would punch my mum, drag her around by her hair, and do things to her a lot worse that i dont care to revisit.
My brothers, sister and i were not immune to his rage. We copped it on a regular basis too.
By the time i was 19 i was diagnosed with depression and given some meds to combat the problem.
I am now 34 and off the meds for a long time , functioning in socitey, raising my family and living my life to the fullest.
No one SAVED me. I saved MYSELF. I realized i needed help and so i went out and found some.
I never once picked up a gun and drove to my local shopping mall and blew away the lives of total strangers because i wanted to GO OUT IN STYLE AND BE FAMOUS.
Robert made a choice that day. He could have chosen to 1. Talk to a friend. 2. Talk to a doctor. 3. Talked to a councellor 4. blow himself away.
But he didnt. He chose to destroy other people. He is a selfish, cruel person and for that he deserves hell.
your story touches me Amy . . thanks for being brave enough to share your own personal experiences w/ the rest of the world in an effort to help the rest of the world. may the winds of life be always at your back.
Who paid for your meds?
You have to understand the true problem with people like this. It’s not a thought process like “oh, I’m depressed. I think I will go shoot up some random people.” Its a chemical imbalance. yes, he could have gotten “help” but he tried that. he was in and out of mental institutions from the age of 6. I know what he was going through because i was nearly there myself. and it has nothing to do with self loathing. it stems from a seething hatred of the human race as a whole. I went through all the beatings and I was treated like shit. My mother kicked me out twice when i was 14 for being depressed for Christ sake. she said i made the the world a dark place to live, all because i was reaching out for help. it was all made worse when i realized what the inherent meaning of life is. but things changed when i realized i was stronger. physically mentally and emotionally. my dad tried to beat my ass again when i was seventeen, but things turned out differently. i could fight back. mentally and emotionally i learned I was stronger than most by living through what i’ve gone through. at this point i had tried pills, but they just made things worse. therapy helped some, but i couldn’t talk about everything because i didn’t want to end up institutionalized. what e did was not cowardice it was a attempt to show the world that he needed help. could you face your own mortality?
I can relate to being treated like shit.My dad beat the shit out of me,because I was trouble,and wouldn’t listen to anyone.I do not believe he is in hell,I actually believe that he saw Christ and got forgiven,because of the reason to why he did it.It wasn’t his fault ,life was given to him that way,family hurts us more,than outsiders.I’m sure he had a beautiful heart,but life messed up his mind,and emotions controlled him.Feeling like shit,and worthless is the worst feeling in the world,but we have to find courage in life,and find what we love doing,to lack negativity as such.I’m sure many families have been hurt,by losing their loved ones.He at least apologized,and that should matter,because he did have many problems.At least he,and they are all in a better place,I’m sure,because life is really hard when you have a big heart.May Robert Haskins rest in peace,and all the 9 other people.Amen.
Amy it was very brave of you to post your story…But you held together mentally but Robert had a physiological disease , it wasn’t his fault to get help but it didn’t improve his condition…I find his story really sad :/.
i completely agree with this ryan guy you should find out the facts before you talk about robbie like that cuz thats messed up saying it was all over a zit and petty problems cuz no it was not so dont talk bout stuff you know nothing about. this article wasnt even completely accurate.
he gave me a blow job just before he went off on a killing spree
ROFLollipop
he was sorta a boy scout when he was at camp he was molested and did you know that his father molested him
i live here in omaha been watching all day and you are the only one that said he went hunting with his friends. the mother that he lived with stated that she didn’t know that he knew anything about guns other than his stepfather had them so he knew from him. and when asked about hunting she said she didn’t know. if he was going hunting with her sons(who he hung out with all the time) she should know.
by the way he was fired a couple days ago
He was just a kid. The people who abandoned him deserve hell just as much as he does. The people who make this site, and plaster it in ads to profit from chorus judgement deserve the same as well.
I agree. If you read anything about his so-called ‘parents’ , he never had a fucking chance. Not even one. I don’t agree with what he did at all, but getting fired from shithole mcdonalds and a zit did NOT drive him to murder. His lack of any direction and love as a child drove him to murder. How do you know how to behave as a decent human being, if your raised by orderlies who make 7 dollars an hour and parents that petition the court to make you a ward of the state so they don’t have to pay your medical bills? Our children grow up and evolve the way we teach and show them to. Read the article on this tragedy in Rolling Stone issue 1059.
antidepressant drugs have caused all these shootings.makes you homicidal and suicidal.pills aren’t the answer.
Oh yes, blame all the drugs, that’s correct! Because i’m taking Paxil for PPD and i go on shooting rampages all the time! But don’t blame me! It’s my MEDICINE’S FAULT! You, sir, are an idiot.
And am i the ONLY one who actually understood KaRi from ThePrimeSpot.TV’s comment? She did NOT say “Robert Hawkins killed others and himself because of a pimple!” She was making a generalization about immature teenagers being overly dramatic. Jesus.
I truly think that the way parents raise their kids is the source of the effects, if you do good then your child(s) have a good chance of success, if you do bad, your child(s) will do the same. I think that Robert was definitely under so much stress, but killing other people is not the opropriate way to go, but he was probably on drugs which could be responsable for his actions, I think he should go to hell for his actions, but if he handled it in a better way (like not murdering anyone) then he would go to heaven
First of all, It kinda ticks me off people talking stuff about him. Why you might ask? He probably got messed with allot, and I’m guessing life kicked his ass like it does mine. I couldn’t ever kill someone else tho, but the way i see it, he deserves heaven cause he probably had nothing but hell here. The people that gave him hell deserve hell, and i hope they all go to hell for putting him through it. And that goes out to everyone that talks stuff. And I’m sure his girl was a slut or something too…most girls are now days. along with guys. I aint sexist or anything. Anyways, look at the reasons he was so upset. But, if I’m wrong, then i guess he would deserve hell…Oh and ive takein anti depressant pills. i have some. they aint done anything to me….good or bad…..mine may just suck tho
I look forward to hearing from you in my local paper.. do I need to say what the headline would be?
and fuck you brandon dont be sayin his girl was a slut cuz thats my friend and she was nothing but perfect to that boy you asshole.
I don’t get what working at McDonalds has to do with anything.
I’m not out of the picture- I worked at both Happy Steak and Winchells’s Donuts from 14-15. Sucky jobs, but needed.
That seems to be a pretty common stepping stone towards working up from the minimum wage ladder.
But, um, getting killed doesn’t seem to be part of the job. Years later, as a loan officer in a bank, I was personally held up by a freak with a gun… that made more sense. They wanted money. They got it. Over $160,000.
I just don’t remember as a teen, people doing violent crime for seemingly kicks like they do today. I don’t understand it at all.
I was fired from Happy Steak for refusing to g
STEPHEN BLANK, millions of people are on anti-depressant medication. Hardly any of them go on shooting rampages. To say “Oh, he was on medication, that must be what made him do it” is just about as useful as saying “Oh, he lived in Nebraska, that probably drove him to it” or “Oh, he was a teenager, everyone knows teenagers go on shooting rampages,” or some other simplistic, one-size-fits-all cure.
So if anti-depressants aren’t “the answer”, what is? Vitamins?
Oh, wait, you’re a Scientologist, aren’t you…
Ok, Brandon, I’m not getting your point.
If you get teased in school it’s ok if you kill random people just because you are mad?
Educate me on who exactly this kid killed, and how personally each of those people bullied this student. Because I’m going to guess they were random hits.
In high school(and grade school), I was teased non-stop, being called ‘carrot-top’, ‘flatsy-patsy’, you name it. After high school I ended up modelling for several years. Even though the things people said to me in school were hurtful, I did not take that as justification to plow down multiple people that had never harmed me, as this (and other kids have done).
I don’t like your implication that being teased in school is a valid justification for killing random teenagers. That is just so lame.
Yes, school bullying is wrong and shoudl be stopped, but it is no excuse for killing people.. otherwise I would have had good reason to mow down many people, and I somehow managed not to.
I don’t like mean people. Never have. But that is not justification to kill.
Yeah I have to side with GloryBug here… I don’t care how tough he had it, that doesn’t make it okay for him to go on a shooting rampage? Even if the people he shot were specific targets which I highly doubt. I’m pretty sure they just happened to be whomever he could see as he walked that last path.
So by the logic of your statement, because someone once called me a dork in high school I now have the right to go shoot some people? That’s frightening really, it makes me wonder what is stopping you from doing it right now?
If you say life kicked your ass as it probably did his, yet you can not kill someone while essentially looking the other way here, that’s hypocrisy and doesn’t add up. One or the other which is it? Even though I, and I’m sure plenty of others, wouldn’t like it if you decided to kill yourself at least you’d have your logic straight though pointed in the wrong direction in that case.
I guess I’m rambling now, anyways your logics confounds me I guess is the main point here.
Living in the USA is allready hell for a lot of people. So from one hell to the other… USA: From the land of milk and honey it became the land of nothing. Glad I live in Europe.
Strange how people can lose all perspective at such a young age, clearly something else was wrong with him, you cannot simply blame outside factors for something like this.
To shoot random people requires an absolute inability to feel for others.
It does make you wonder what sort of social services exist for kids such as this.
Because to lose all perspective like that?
At 19? When you have your whole life ahead of you?
I couldn’t recognise myself from when i was about 18-19 to now being 29 years old.
he is my personal hero. how great must it feel go out in a style like that…… :D
People, what a sad tragedy again. Personally things like these doesn’t really surprise me. I’m not from the US, live in Europe, and from here we see things go from bad to worse with the US Firearms regulations. Explaining it by stating that everyone should have the right to defend themselves, as quoted often in the more southern states, is just utterly ridiculous. People like this gunman, and all other highschool/college tragedies, have twisted minds and can get their hands on weapons way to easy. I really think the biggest threat for the US is the amount of weapons in hands of their own inhabitants..
Anyway, what I actually wanted to point out was what are your thoughts on the scary commenter “Brandon Norwood” who left a weird statement above and fully fits in a mentally sick and dangerous profile. Click his name for his myspace and you’ll know what I mean… Could this be a future sicko?
antidepressant drugs did not have caused all these shootings but legal guns on every corner of the street.
I thank god i life in Holland with all the pills and drugs.
But i can go shopping without the fear getting killed by a sicko who can buy a gun with permission of our President.
No future , nohting to hope for , nothing to dream about …
What other option did he have ?
Don’t blame him , blame society in general .
This world isn’t worth fighting for anymore , this world is long dead .
@Uber: maybe, but then he should have just killed himself. no need for killing innocent people..
Another suicidal gunman, what’s new in this society? I hate the media, and they’re just going to exploit this kid and make him as he mentioned in his suicie letter, “famous”. He’ll get more air time than the victims. It always happens no matter who the suspects are. It’s sad, but who’s truly the blame? Everybody picks the suspect because he’s an easy target. Perhaps, if guns were actually outlawed 8-9 people would be living right now.
Ok, there are some really misguided people commenting on this article, so I’m going to clear things up for you:
Regardless what trials life had thrown at young Mr. Hawkins, this f%$#ing dirtball went into a shopping mall and killed 8 people in cold blood. 8 people that had children, parents, friends. 8 people that meant something to someone else.
Anyone who sympathizes with this piece of sh#$ needs to shake themselves.
I have a harsh bit of truth for you: there are people in society that don’t deserve your sympathy. There are people that don’t belong in society. Anyone who would take this fool’s side when he slaughtered 8 people in a shopping mall needs a good, hard slap. Stop to think about how you would feel if one of your children, your spouse, or a parent was gunned down by this scumbag. Would you be defending him then? Don’t insult the people the tragedy affected by making excuses for this piece of human waste.
Amen.
A very strange scenario. I am not sure why he chose a shopping mall to commit suicide. Both my husband and I worked there a few years ago, but I never thought the mall was “safe”. We saw many fights and shoplifting. There was a rape in the parking lot and several robberies while I worked there. My heart goes out to all those involved. This world isn’t doomed, we are privy to more information due to technology and the global village we have created. Bad things happened in the “good old days”, it just wasn’t over reported.
Can’t argue with that, Angrier Citizen.
@angry citizen. When I think about it, if someone is killed I should wonder WHY he did it. Perhaps he wasn’t accepted by society. It’s not your right to judge who belong in society and who doesn’t. Everyone needs someone. And if this society of yours turns down people, I don’t want to belong to it either (happely I’m not an american)Even this article is tragedy, especially the poll: “Does Robert Hawkins deserve Hell?” Who are YOU to decide that? God? No, I don’t think so
(whatever you may think after I’ve typed this, it’s still wrong what he did, but it seems it has become pretty common in the USA to gun down people at random)
we are not seriously debating wether this kid had a right to shoot random people due to the fact he was depressed/bullied/beaten/whatever?
if that is indeed considered justification, i better get myself a couple .44′s and a shotgun and go postal in a mall near you.
If you kill another person like this, you’re a sad piece of shit and no matter how much hell you’ve had on earth, more brimstone and sulphur will be on your way.
Hey GET REAL: Antidepressants have been proven to cause suicidal behavior in teens. A pill is not the answer to all of life’s problems.
Of course this dude is messed up in the head
and whatever he did is wrong.
But putting up a poll like “does he deserve hell” on the end of this story doesn’t make the yes-voters very humane as well.
Is this supposed to be some way of satisfaction or something?
This whole article is a big joke if you ask me ;) To few news and to much opinion and speculation
I got made fun of.
I’m gonna go kill fucking everybody.
Because Brandon told me it wasn’t wrong.
i don’t care if you are being sarcastic or not. I know for a fact what went through his head. it went through mine a while back. But i wasn’t thinking of shooting random people at a mall it was the kids who i had to put up with at school. i came out of the closet for being gay and went through hell. I was beat in the halls of school, abused mentally and physically, threatened to be shot and stabbed and someone even tried to bring a gun to school to shoot me. I’ve been their. not through all of what he went or even the same thing but i have been in his position. Don’t get me wrong im not defending him im just trying to prove a point. He was stuck in a ward for most of his life. What he went through may have not justified what he did but he was at the point where he had nothing left to live for. Chances are he was thinking that most of society had treated him like crap so he was going to take a few of them with him.
Count me as another who believes anti-depressants played a role in this.
“Angry Citizen”, I’m not sympathizing with the killer.
“Get Real”, I’m not a scientologist. Science has proved that cigarettes cause cancer. Does every smoker get cancer?
The big pharmacutical companies have already paid hush money to victims’ families in previous shootings.
Hell of a side effect, huh?
I dont believe anyone that was this disturbed should ever be considered to go to Jail. This boy had all kinds of problems and no one ever thought “Hey this boy is seriously disturbed maybe we should take him to a therapist and see if he has PSD OR BIPOLAR. because it seems to me he does and anti depresents dont really work all the time. This boy needed to talk to someone and i mean really talk to someone and his mom being the bitch that she appears to be didnt give to shits about him. I believe that if this boy robert got the help he needed we would sit here and post comments on whether or not he should go to jail. 1 that is not our decision to make no matter how bad we sometimes want to make it. That is gods job and now Robert can get that love. help. and attention that he so badly needed. My prayers goes out to all the victims and their families. and my prayers also goes out to Robert if only you could of taken a different route.
may god rest your soul.
and for all the other bastards that dont agree with me fuck yall…
MUAHS
AMEN!
NOT JAIL HELL I MEANT TO SAY*
ok Stephen…first thing: Anti-depressents are fine if they are administered properly and there is some self control. if you mix them with alcohol and other controlling substances you’re bound to lose it. did you not see that he was arrested for having possesion of booze. Once you get to a point when you medicate and then self medicate you’re bound to be so far underneath rock bottom that a papercut could set you off. Him getting fired was just the straw that broke the camels back.
second: I don’t understand why he picked the childrens level. How many children were injured? It’s always the fucking children.
third: McDonalds isn’t that bad. My uncle in Missouri owns like 7 of them and they are bank. It just depends if you try.
fourth: nothing else to say right now. maybe more later
Although his final action was unacceptable, I really feel for this kid. Only God knows the state of mind he was in during those final moments; the lack of hope the desperation. May God have mercy on this poor soul as well as the souls of his victims.
Rot in pieces.
Dutchie: We’re not a “news” site. We’re a blog. Read the disclaimer here: http://pysih.com/disclaimer/
Regardless, we make a diligent effort to make sure the facts that we present as facts are, indeed, facts. If you see something that you know is wrong, please don’t hesitate to contact us and let us know.
@Gabriel
Amen to that :)
@ Admin
Oh, didn’t read that. Sorry about what I said then (the news/facts part)
He arrived in hell yesterday after murdering 8 people and commiting suicide. good riddance.
two words: gun control….
I agree with what you said about the kid, he was messed up. However, I didn’t agree with your comment, “He enjoyed hunting, as many Nebraskan kids do.” This shooting has already put a bad light on Omaha. I don’t know many people who actually do hunt! Not everyone in Nebraska is a gun-toting crazy person.
Ok, if you really live in Omaha, you know that there are a lot of people who like to hunt in the general area. People come from out of state to hunt here. There’s a big hunting and shooting scene here. The Bullet Hole on Harrison is always busy, for example. And why do you think they put a Cabela’s over at Harrison and I-80? That’s right – hunting and fishing.
While there are some people who are anti-gun, there are more who respect gun rights. One person with a concealed carry permit and a pistol could have solved this problem – had they been in Von Maur’s customer service area at the time, and if Von Maur allowed people with concealed weapons into the store.
ok people, just because cetain people are teased and have problems doesn’t mean one god damn thing. Look, I have my own problems, I am not the most attractive person either, I have family problems and I’m not the most popular guy. I’m 17 and I have a shitty job. I just look at the future in the positive way. You only have one life to live . You have to live it at the fullest. Eight people didnt get to finish there lives that way. Anyone who fuckin feels bad for this peice of shit is a complete idiot. Stating “now im gonna be famous” is just an excuse for more shits like him to carry out the same ordeal. Wake up people.
For what it’s worth, I don’t think he is unattractive at all. The opposite actually.
Samantha – he looks like a cross between David Koresh and Napolean Dynamite.
Have you been drinking?
I realize I am a little late but i just want to put my two cents in.
Anyway, I think that it is clear that this kid really did snap. We have all had momentary lapses where we do stupid shit, especially on drugs (which he seemed to have plenty of.) My vote in this case is just don’t go so crazy with all the drugs. Perhaps he wasn’t on any at the time of the murders? BUT what about the proceeding week? How much did he sleep beforehand? Was he in some kind of withdrawal period?
Ha! So I wasn’t the only one to see Napolean’s face in that picture… that’s good to know.
I think we can all agree that the years between the ages of 12 and 19 can be ROUGH! My junior high days were from the pit of hell. I say this because every time I hear about one of these sad sacks that commits a crime like this, I wonder what it would be like if every bullied, insecure teenager went on a murderous rampage. I’m pretty sure our country would no longer have a social security problem because no one would even make it out of high school. I have a hard time being sympathetic to these folks. There are plenty of people who have gotten the fuzzy end of life’s lollipop and that sucks. But, I tend to lose sympathy when those people murder other innocent people in an act that can only be described as the epitome of selfishness.
To all you people who think he is a bad person and had no right to do what he did. He doesn’t care what you think! Do you get that? Neither will the next person or the next person. Your bad opinion of them will not stop them from doing what they are going to do.
I’m not really for shooting down people who didn’t do anything to you. Some of them might have even been your friend if you could have got to know them. But I certainly understand why anybody would want to do that, and it is at least good that they finally tried to stand up for themself, even though they did it the wrong way.
All you people that are for society and the right of society to put us misfits and outcasts through hell. Eff you. I’m not going to come kill you, but I wouldn’t shed any tears if it happened either. People like you are the problem. You are the ones that drive somebody to the point where they have nothing left to lose. Why should a person who is ALREADY in hell care about who is innocent or who might disaprove of what they have done. Their life is already over. They will end it as they choose. If it makes them feel better to “take a fins escort to hell with them” – well, who was it that drove them to the point where that was the only thing left to give life meaning.
Nobody is born a homicidal maniac. Nobody wakes up one day and decides that this will be their goal in life. We are people who have tried and tried as hard as we can to be part of your society, and your society has spit on us and turned its back. Yes, killing is wrong. But you people kill the spirit and the soul of your victims, and you get away with it.
Why is there even a concern about bullying today. Not because anybody likes the victims or are really sorry for them. It’s because they are afraid of what might happen. And it took some mass killings to get their attention. Anybody who thinks the killings are wrong should ask why this bullying was allowed to go on for so many years. It was allowed to go on because there were no consequences. Now there have been consequences – and now there is a move to stop bullying. Say what you want – insane violence works.
If you want to stop violence, open up the doors and let us outcasts come in. Let us be part of your society. That’s all most of us have ever wanted. But I guess it’s too much to ask of selfish hard-hearted people.
Have a nice day.
Thats the exact response that I would expect from someone whose name is Ticked Off at Society!
Lerching,
Are you saying I have no right to be ticked off? Careful – you have no idea what I’ve been through. And I’ve tried to be nice and be a good person. But there are limits.
Are you REALLY trying to intimidate someone via an online blog? i can’t wait to see what kind of mass destruction you’ll end up killing yourself for. What’s your name? i wanna be able to put a face to the name when i read it in yet another “justified” shooting.
While I wouldn’t begin to guess what caused this kid to snap. I will say that it is very true that the antidepressants could have been a factor in his actions. These medications can and do have adverse effects on different people who take them. Thats why they are/should be monitored by a doctor. Add alcohol and/or other drugs and you have even more problems.
Believe me I’m not making excuses for what this kid did but these are the risks of giving a depressed person drugs without monitoring their behavior while taking them. Just wanted to give my 2 cents.
I feel great sorrow for all involved…
Wakado !!!
Ticked Off at Society!: You can feel however you like.
Personally, I don’t see why anyone would care what you’ve been through when you present yourself as someone who has “tried to be nice and be a good person” but then say “But there are limits.”
You’re saying, “Careful” for what reason? Are you going to go out and shoot someone too? Are you that pathetic?
Do you feel we’re picking on you?
You don’t work in the computer field do you?
listen ticked off at society,
I believe you totally have the right to be mad and upset for whatever the reason is. I honestly meant no harm in what I said earlier.
But murdering innocent people for ones own problems is totally wrong. And to defend Robert A Hawkins motivation on what he did is beyond me.
I tried to be clear that I don’t intend to kill anybody, and I think it is wrong. I have ethics and I have values. But I have similar feelings about life to the people who do these things, and I think somebody should stand up and support the fact that they were victimized to the point where they saw no other way out.
Admin,
No I don’t feel anybody here is personally picking on me. But some here seem to not see a problem with the fact that society in general does make life difficult or impossible for its weaker members.
Life isn’t fair. Everyone is the weakest at some point in their life.
Heroism can be defined as defending the weak and good against the evil and strong.
Don’t condemn society for not consisting entirely of heroes. Not everyone is cut out for heroism.
Cowards such as Hawkins aren’t worth the breath it took to create them.
Admin,
Sorry, I read through your post fast and missed one point. Why do I say careful? Not in any sense a threat as it might have appeared. I meant careful about making assumptions about what the poster knows nothing about. I think I have a right to my anger, and I thought, perhaps wrongly, that his post implied otherwise.
Not too sure how much I believe antidepressants solve physical/chemical imbalances in the body, but I’m pretty sure it’s bad doctoring to medicate people for ‘life’s problems’.
It is not a good solution to dull the senses instead of trying to find solutions to your problems.
The girl in the Lori Drew case was supposedly on antidrepressants. She’d been more than a little bullied. Yet, she killed herself rather than other people. That needs to be looked into- why people in similar situations, on similar meds, take such different paths. It seems like one type takes things personally, whereas the other focusses on society in general as being the cause of their problems… which is why they kill random people.
Life is not about instant gratification or some ‘right’ to have a perfect, non-problematic life, and I wish that pharm cos would stop pushing this idea that you should take a pill every time you don’t get your way. Maybe they should be focussing their research on finding a med that makes people not want to kill other people, instead.
Admin,
Your continued harsh condemnation of Hawkins as a person illustrates part of the problem I’m concerned about. Everybody is worth something. You choose to judge this young man by one tragic act. Perhaps others chose to judge him because he was “weird” or not like them. When members of society think it is right or acceptable to deny the worth of a person, for whatever reason, they have basically declared war on that person. If society declares me “worthless”, what right have they then to expect my good behavior? They may get my good behavior, because I try to be a better person than they are. But strictly logically, they’ve got nothing coming.
So if you get picked last to play in a softball game, you get to declare war on them?
Perhaps a saner response to being picked on and being declared worthless is to take steps to improve your situation and increase your value to both yourself and society. That’s an adult response to adversity.
“Screw it, I’m taking my ball and going home” is a childish response, and that’s what these shooters are doing.
And no, you’re wrong. Everybody is not worth something. There’s a large percentage of humanity that isn’t worth anything.
In fact on the strictest economical terms, they have a negative value.
yes, one tragic act that left families devestated. This is a situation beyond tragic. Its pathetic. There are other ways to recieve help, ok? Everyone has problems. Find a way to deal with them, theres even solutions, for fixing an “outcast.” If you clarify yourself as one, thats ur fucking fault. You chose the way u made u, not anyone else. Not all of society will shun a person. Thats a hell of allota people then kid.
Admin,
Your last post raises a lot of issues. You criticize the victim for not being “adult”, for being “childish”. You say they should try harder to be of value. This seems wrong to me in a couple of directions. First – Hawkins and most of the others who have done what he did are young. Yes, 19 is “adult” in most states. But passing a law that says someone is an adult doesn’t make it come true. When I was young, the legal age of adulthood was 21. So it is actually a pretty fluid state of affairs. Everybody has their own rate of maturity, and a legal “adult” may still be a child in the ways that matter. But this is certainly not grounds to say they are a bad person. Interestingly, there is recent research that suggests that the parts of the brain that give rise to our emotions are well developed during the teenage years, but the parts that cause us to stop and think and exert control of our behavior typically are not well developed until the early or mid twenties. Secondly, there is evidence from the accounts of Hawkins’ life that he was trying to “increase his value”. He had gotten a job, gotten his driver’s license, and people who knew him say he always tried to be helpful and nice. Guess he was doing things “right” by your standards, but it wasn’t enough for society to accept him.
I should also point out that getting picked last for a softball game isn’t the point at all. Years of consistent isolation and rejection in the face of the victim’s every attempt to be part of things is a little more accurate. Maybe not with Hawkins – we don’t know a lot of those details about him – but in my own case that is what it has been like. But – you may say – I haven’t killed anybody. Correct. Nor do I plan to. But “There but for the grace of God…” or if you prefer, “There but for fortune…”. Everybody has a breaking point. Nobody really knows where that is, for themself or for another, until it happens. And then it’s too late.
Now let’s discuss the worth of people. From the point of view of market economics you are certainly correct. Many people are worth more to the economy dead than alive, under our current market-oriented notions of what is value. That is an important reason why I don’t accept market economics as a measure of value in my own ethical beliefs. Malcolm X once said that the real tragedy of racism was that young black children who might have the potential to conquer space or cure cancer would never have that opportunity because of racism. Well, the impact of racism is now less – at least for black kids who are middle class or above. But there are always excuses found to deny the potential that a person has to make a contribution. When you, or others in society, designate somebody a loser – often on the basis of very limited knowledge about their mental and moral qualities – you do society itself a disservice. That person might have made a contribution – had they been allowed to participate. Life is full of examples of people who started out appearing to be nobody special. or even bad, who rose to become productive or even great. Who are you to say you know people for whom this can never happen?
I am not Christian in any usual sense, but I do believe that the Bible is right when it says we are created in God’s image. I think people need to respect that. And, yes, Hawkins should have respected that rather than shoot people. But it appears that life taught him a different lesson. And those responsible for his state of mind should share the responsibility for his act.
Hating on someone who went through a shitload of depression, in his life? I find that quite pathetic.
admin: Who hates people who go through depression? Hate people who shoot 8 innocent people.
Here’s the scoop. He was a coward. Plain and simple… and to all of his buddies that think they’re not going to reap what they helped to sow… think again. We’ll be posting your names soon enough.
pussy,
Should I be scared?
Just wondering.
i live in omaha and my biggest concern right now is for those out there that are relating to him. all over the news today you heard from profilers and other specialists calling him a loser. get real he had problems (like we do), but didn’t know how to handle them. by calling him a loser how many others out there will be thinking that sounds like me then hear he was a loser. how will they take this and what will the results be.
as for gun control- umm he stole it from his stepfather didn’t he?
anti-depressants – could be but we will never know
this will be discussed over and over with different people being blamed.
my opinion is that we need to do our best (personally) do what we can for all those involved.
No one gets through life unscathed. We all have to face some trials. However, that being said, who really feels like taking out a worker or a shopper in a mall will deaden the pain? I can somewhat understand when someone is severely outcast that there could be violent repercussions directed at the parties responsible. Note: I said understand, not condone. But this did seem so random. None of the victims knew him and vice versa. Depression is real, but some people confuse it with the natural rhythm of the human brain. No one is happy all the time. The bottom line: would it be easy to see his side of this story if it was your mom/dad/sister/aunt/uncle etc.?
Ticked off: I think he was referring to Hawkin’s friend that was arrested today for threatening someone via text message for talking badly about our dead Mr. Hawkins.
Christina: I think the scenario you’re talking about would lead to something like the new “I Am Legend” movie that’s coming out shortly.
Ticked Off: You’re coming across as more than slightly bent.
You say that everyone has their breaking point.
There are countless people who came before us, who are living now, and who are yet to be born that will endure hardship, hardship that I am quite sure Mr. Hawkins never had to endure. While their levels of suffering surpass anything Hawkins went through, somehow they managed to get through life while not killing random people in a shopping mall, or town square, or village.
“Everybody has their breaking point.” Don’t make me laugh. While that is a truism when talking about torture, but we’re not talking about torture when we’re talking about Mr. Hawkins. We’re talking about someone who was in the bottom rung on the social ladder who wanted to strike back at a society that spurned him, instead of taking steps to join that society as a productive, positive person.
The evidence that you point to is only evidence to the most trusting eye. Getting a job and a driver’s license, while good steps to take, are, in the end, worth nothing without the right mindset.
As for the youth issue, that point can be refuted by looking at history. Amazing how few mass murders were committed by children back in the first part of the 20th century, isn’t it? I’m sure kids were even more cruel back then – just ask someone who lived through those times about the cruelty people were capable of back then.
Glorification of antisocial attitudes, the anti-hero and shortcuts to prosperity are directly responsible for the events of December 5th.
Angrier Citizen: I couldn’t agree more.
I have to agree that striking out at people who aren’t the ones who did anything to you is kind of stupid, although I perfectly understand coming to the point where considerations like that no longer seem to matter.
On the other hand, nobody yet has addressed my earlier point that there was no organized concern about the problem of bullying until the mass killings started. Like it or not, right or wrong, that is a very powerful indicator of something.
There’s an organized concern about bullying because people love to organize and fret about the most recent cause to come down the media pipe – nothing more.
The outrage and hand-wringing will slow down and crawl to a halt until the next incident occurs and the whole process begins anew.
Strange how these people never strike back at their bullies. They always go for the innocents, the unaware. They always do it in the most cowardly way possible.
I would understand the process of standing up for yourself, if bullied, even to the point of fatality. Self-defense is perfectly acceptable.
I would understand someone standing up for another person who was being bullied. Risking yourself to save others is an extremely noble act.
These types of incidents fall into neither of the above categories and simply can’t be justified as the thrashings of a victim in pain.
Admin,
You say that breaking point applies only to torture. Unless you yourself have endured the experience of spending years living excluded and rejected and having to see every day those who enjoy the friendship and love that you yourself will never know, then you are not qualified to say whether it is comparable to torture or whether to expect someone subject to that to eventually break.
As to others who have endured hardship. There is hardship, and there is hardship. I recommend to you Victor Frankel’s book “Man’s Search for Meaning”. Frankel, a Jewish psychiatrist was imprisoned in a Nazi death camp. The first part of the book is about his experiences in the camp. The second part is about the implications of those experiences for psychotherapy. In short, Frankel observed that those who survived the experience were those who could find a meaning in their suffering. I suggest that it is difficult, if not impossible, to find meaning in being born into a society that consistently turns its back on you for no good reason.
You suggest that Hawkins lacked the “right mindset”. But those who knew him say that he was consistently pleasant and helpful to those around him. What more are you suggesting he should have done, to meet your approval as a worthwhile person?
The “youth issue” is not refuted by your point. You are the one who called these responses to rejection “childish”. I pointed out that a “childish” response is expected from those of a young age. And, the fact this did not happen as much 50 years ago is a reflection of different social conditions. Guns are more available, and shooting as a means of self-expression is more accepted by society. In my day, my own response to persecution was to bloody the nose of a guy older and bigger than me. It stopped the active persecution (because there were consequences!) but it did not lead to acceptance.
And, as to glorification of anti-social attitudes, as long as society persists in its evil ways anti-social attitudes will be glorified, and with reason. Society – if you don’t want the name, stop playing the game!
Admin,
You make my point about opposition to bullying. The issue is addressed when the victims create consequences for society, not otherwise. What lesson do you expect the bullying victims to take from that observation?
What a piece of scum. It surprises me that about 40% of people don’t think he deserves hell. People who can’t deal with their own problems and make themselves feel better and seem important by killing others, that is the most pathetic thing.
I’m really quite taken aback at how there are people out there who are actually hailing this kid for “fighting back”. I think we can all be pretty certain that none of the people who bullied him were Christmas shopping in the department store. Further more, I make no judgements about “outcasts”. EVERYONE is an outcast at one time or another! I think it’s pretty important to point out that the reason this kid is being reviled is because he shot and killed or wounded innocent people, not because he didn’t sit at the “cool table”. There is NO EXCUSE for killing and hurting innocent people! What this Mr. Hawkins did was purely selfish and there is nothing admirable or noble about his actions. Maybe instead of trying to sympathize with the late Mr. Hawkins, you could direct your righteous indignation to the plight of the families and friends left behind to mourn their loved one who had the misfortune of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
After reading what’s been posted here about R. A. Hawkins, I think a few have it right, and a few have it wrong. People outside the U.S. think it has something to do with guns, and that is not the case. Down through time people have always found a way to kill other people, and guns are not always the weapon of choice. I hear about killings all over the world, and so outlawing guns doesn’t seem to stop the killings. Where you have people, you have idiots that will take the life or lives of others, and that is the sad truth. They all have what they think is a reason to kill, and it’s always the same crap. “I was treated badly”, “Life sucks”, “My God is better than your God, and if you don’t believe what I believe I will kill you” kind of crap.. People who take the life of another for no reason at all is a mental moron. Can’t deal with life of can’t get a life, then don’t take it out on people who are doing just fine with their lives. It’s the game of life, and if you drop out or push others out of the game, your the looser!!
No better illustration why we need concealed carry permits (which Nebraska does have). It’s just too bad that an upstanding citizen who was legally packing wasn’t there to end him before he killed those poor people.
This is a horrible, horrible website. Clearly this kid had extreme depression which was never dealt with. There is no reason in the world for people to exploit him the way this website is.
Everyone should be focused on the real issue at hand that too many people face everyday: Depression. Pointing out Robert Hawkins’ case of acne or popularity status that this society drives itself on is ridiculous and only makes you look incompetent.
Yeah, we really are all terrible people, just sitting around making fun of some poor emo boy. God, I really can’t think of anything more horrible anyone could possibly ever do than cracking jokes about some poor, innocent, depressed teenager…
I worked many years for the State of Nebraska. They have their workers work on cases and get so many done per week. The more cases you move—crap work is ok—the faster you move up.
We freely admit our incompetence, and humbly beg for your patience.
I am going to break something to all of you posting here about how we should all feel for the poor young man, and how we are all so cruel for passing judgement on him for his actions when we should be trying to understand what drove him to that state.
This site’s admin and I are co-workers, and at our day job we keep our community’s worst type of human garbage from going out and victimizing any more of you. Call us jaded, but you have no idea what sort of animals breathe the same air as you in your community.
It’s all well and good to sit in your safe little home in your nice neighborhood and make yourself feel noble about how liberal you are, and how the world would be a better place if everyone saw things the way you do.
The real world is nothing like that. Most people do not have the worldy comforts or opportunities that you do. Many do not want to expend the effort necessary to achieve anything in life. It’s easier to take the fruit of someone else’s labor, or make stupid amounts of cash selling drugs. People steal , hurt, kill to improve their worldly possessions and comfort. The vast majority of repeat criminals are, to one degree or another, sociopaths.
Don’t delude yourself about reaching out to people, making a difference, or any other liberal feel-good rhetoric you want to throw out there. There are people in the world that are no good, and screw fixing them, and who cares how they got there. Ultimately, all acts are a matter of DECISION, not influence.
You want to make a difference? Be a good citizen. Be a member of your community that does more good than harm. Go to work, pay your taxes, love your family, and raise your children to be like you. That is all you can do, and if we all did it, the world WOULD become a better place, in time.
Some good points Angry Citizen. But liberals, being one myself, are pretty cool. I have it on good authority you know a few pretty well.
Whatever sympathy this piece of garbage deserved was completely negated when he chose to murder 8 human beings. He was a pathetic coward until the very end. His family may have screwed him up (and believe me I hold them VERY responsible for this happening) but he made the decision that he was going to murder people… and for what? A little fame… and a lot of self pity. This kid was worth something at some point in his life but he decided that his little crybaby selfish pity party was more important than the lives of people that did NOTHING to him. He didn’t even have the balls to go to McDonalds and kill people he knew.
This is the clearest example of a totally worthless piece of crap and I hope nobody remembers his name in 6 months. The families of his victims need attention… not this thing that killed them. Bury him in a pine box and let’s move on.
I think that this kid – that’s what he is, a fucking kid, not a man like some reports are saying – felt like the big bad world had shoved him into a corner. And maybe it did. It sounds to me like he had shitty parents, which can really fuck a kid up, as we have seen on this website. I think this was some dumb, scared, neglected kid who felt like he didn’t matter, and he was so desperate to make himself matter that he did something inimaginable. How scared do you think he was walking into that mall with that gun? Do you think his hands were shaking, his heart pounding? After he fired that first shot, do you think he immediately wished he could take it all back? That’s what I think. I think he was a little kid, throwing a tantrum so that someone would notice him. I feel bad for the guy. And I feel HORRIBLE for all the victims… the innocent lives lost, the families they left behind… They were just going about their lives, looking for Christmas presents for their moms, dads, significant others… and now they’re gone because some stupid, scared, lost kid gave up on the world. Sheesh.
I know several people who have had terrible lives or child hoods if you will. These people did not go killing innocent people , somebody’s mother or father , brother or sister . Now people want to blame the system , well you can only try to help someone for so long! If they don’t make up their mind to change , then you can’t make them ! I am so tired of people letting Bastards like this off the hook , ” oh gee , he must have been beat ” or ” oh the system didn’t work ” Horse shit ! Quit pissing , moaning ,and bitching and live your life ! Don’t blame others because your a miserable fuck
I’m sorry Becky but if you kill 8 people for no friggin reason then you dont get to have my pity. I could care less what he went through. I have known a lot of people that have gone though some horrifying things and guess what? They never killed anybody. Ya know… being screwed up and picked on is not an excuse to become something like this. How dare you or anyone else even give 2 thoughts about who he was or what he went through. That has nothing to do with what he chose to do. He gets zero sympathy from me. I would have killed this guy in a heartbeat if I knew what he was about to do… and guess what? I would sleep like a baby knowing his sorry ass was off this planet. If anyone deserves sympathy it is the freaking victims. If anyone deserved to die it was this asshole. I refuse to reward any other potential murderers with sympathy after they destroy the lives of their neighbors. I just hope he didn’t die right away when he took the chicken shit way out.
I agree, what he did was awful, but i do can relate to this kid, all he wanted was attention.
Just put yourself into his shoes for a second, and you will see that your are living in a hole that sinks you in everyday… and reasons to over come it and survive are fading away… with every miss step taken, everything is worng and i am the fault, am the one to blame. So what i do.. i scream. I scream with a AK47. I scream HELP ME!, am lost, am sad, am lonley, and i need to be heard and loved.
Killing people is not the way, but was his choice. Why? Cause it was cool. Is what’s hot now and that will make him notice and famous. A horrible example for many others to come, making him a Hero for those who got nothing to loose.
It all resumes for a little kid screming for attencion. Hope is something that is planted and seeded in everyones hearts. When you dont have hope, you dont have nothing to loose, and if on top of that you already state your mind that there is nothing else to do. This is the result.
Our only hope is to do our part and try to bring a helping hand for those people at our reach. People now a days dont care about one another, but when a tragedy strikes, then they ask why, and the answer is because we didnt care.
People just dont care, and hope for miracles. How could this kid help himself or could realize that all his problems and life will change someday, if we just didnt care. I dont mean you to adopt the world, but adopt for family, adopt the one’s you care and love. Is a Domino effect that we can spreed through the world to make a differences.
Ok, the kid had problems. But no one is perfect. Yes it was a stupid decision to go on rampage and kill people before Christmas, but hello! his life sucked. Everybody goes through stuff like that, his life wasn’t great and he was sick of living like that. The stupid, dumb, shit for brains that created this site, deserve to go exactly where he is. He doesn’t deserve to go to hell because his life was hell. It’s not his fault his parents were idiots and didn’t care about him. Don’t have kids if you aren’t going to treat them right, they deserve better than parents like you. The worst part is you people made a joke about this! Nine people are dead, gosh! This site should be shut down. I have a lot of respect for the lady that took Robert Hawkins into her house and treated him like her own. I hope his girlfriend feels really terrible right now.
Have a nice life, you selfish losers!
Becky said, “After he fired that first shot, do you think he immediately wished he could take it all back?”
Nope, after that first shot, he shot over 30 more rounds so your answer is a big NO! If he had a change of heart, 8 people wouldn’t be dead right now for as you know, 13 people were shot, 8 died and 5 were sent to the hospital.
And Annie said,”The worst part is you people made a joke about this!” What part of this site is a joke? It’s people like you that give people like Hawkins a reason to do such things.. “Oh I’m going to kill people and myself so that people will feel sorry for me and that will show em!” I don’t feel sorry for him, and since he killed innocent people, I’m glad he killed himself so that it saved the tax money of a trial and execution. If I seem cold I’m not. I have just had enough of really stupid people doing really stupid things that others think we should feel sorry for them for. I have never been rich, and have had lots of problems all my life, but life is a game, and I have always stuck with it doing the best I can. So far I have wonderful children and grand children, and they are all doing very well also.. Take what life has to give, and never sweat the small stuff..
R. A. Hawkins lost all rights for sympathy when he fired the first shot.. He had people who cared for him before that, and he pissed that all away..
Nuff Said..
Hawkins first aimed at the children’s clothing section… I have a toddler and all I can think is a child or baby could have been killed. Picture this image, you hear gunfire and feel something heavy drop next to you and look down to see your baby lying there, dead. This could have happened, easily.
I don’t buy this idea that he wanted to be famous – people who want to be famous want to stick around to enjoy the attention. He was a stupid, pathetic coward who selfishly chose to end lives rather than face his problems.
I truly believe this young individual went to heaven and ‘learned his lesson’ from God. I think he probably asked for forgiveness, as I think he was probably is a decent kid who made bad decisions with one HORRIBLE decision at the end. To be clear though, I have zero respect for what he did, and had he not cowardly commit sucide, he should have been locked up or sent on death row.
I am 20 years old and only 2 years removed from high school. I had friends and stayed away from all things bad and had good time growing up. I always asked ‘nerds’ or ‘social outcasts’ out with my friends to the football games (much to their dismay) or just to play video games with me because I felt bad for how they were treated and avoided. The ones who accepted my invitations were great kids and thankful someone cared. I could tell. I wasn’t looking for anything other than to make them happy or happier about life. One of my teachers said “Be nice to nerds, you never know if they will be your next boss” and my dad was happy I was doing it just because “you never know who could get p*ssed off and bring a gun to school.” (Which reminds me – the day before this happened, there was a kid who made a ‘hit list’ at a Catholic high school 3 miles from mine. He was caught though.)
And to those Europeans or even Americans bashing the U.S.A. above, I think there is worse violence in the Middle East. Don’t you think? How about North Korea? Yeah, I’d rather live there than here. Most of us are happy where we live. I don’t feel any fear when I’m out at a mall or in public or my home. Things like this are so random, thank the american crap media for that. Bash them, not our country.
And I didn’t invite them because I was worried about being mean and getting shot, to clarify my above comment.
I think some of you are, maybe purposefully, missing an important point. Let me clear this up for y’all:
Being picked on all your life, etc., certainly does not give you the RIGHT to go shooting up a bunch of random people.
However, being picked on all your life, etc., certainly does INCREASE THE ODDS that you’ll go shoot up a bunch of random people.
Do you get it? Nobody is seriously saying he had a right to do that, only that it’s not surprising that he did. That’s not sympathy, that’s understanding. Knowing or not knowing the difference does, in fact, determine if you’re a human being or the equivalent of an idiot programmable robot.
For all the easy talk about people taking responsibility for their own actions, in point of fact, not everybody is going to do that, no matter how much you believe they should. Sure, the planet would be a far better place if they would. The planet would also be a far better place if everybody had everything they need. But neither of those things are ever going to happen.
So, you can stick your head in the sand, and say “Robert Hawkins was a worthless piece of crap,” or you can actually DEAL with the problems of the world, and try to keep an eye out on the people around you, try to make their lives more bearable, try not to dump a sack of shit on them. Honestly, it doesn’t take any more effort to be nice to somebody, or at least not be an asshole towards them, than to be an asshole towards them. And who knows, the life you save might be your own.
Or, you can just continue to slag everybody you don’t like, and then pretend that you weren’t the straw that broke some camel’s back.
Instead of just blaming poor Robert, why not try and figure out what made him do it and how it can be stopped from happening again? This wouldn’t have happened in Britain or Australia because of gun laws. He would have just killed himself and no one would have known (because suicides aren’t allowed to be reported by the press in Australia). In Australia the health and social system would have helped him out a lot more, he probably would never have even thought of killing himself, let alone others, if he was born in Australia.
So why not lets think about how you can stop this from happening again, eh? Not everything is about owning guns and damning other people to Hell. That’s the kind of mindframe that wants to make people with cancer comfortable, instead of wanting to cure cancer altogether. And I hate to say this but the attitude most of you are showing is like a cancer on your own country. If you want to question why this happened, just take a look in the mirror.
And he seems like a sweet guy, besides all the killing he did. Yes, he is a monster for what he did, but if he grew up in any other 1st world country I’d bet he would have just been a sweet guy that was happy to help out his community. YOU made him what he is today, if you want to blame someone blame yourselves. If your dog grew up to be wild and untrained, blame yourselves. If people in your country are not happy, don’t blame them, blame whoever made that country what it is.
“This wouldn’t have happened in Britain or Australia because of gun laws”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_murder#Mass_murderers
*Martin Bryant, killed 35, (Port Arthur massacre, Australia, 1996)
So fuck Australia and fuck you too.
Samantha, don’t spill this shit about “America made him mean, any other place he would have been a sweet guy that was happy to help out his community”. Fuck that. You just sat there and said “Americas full of rednecks and guns, that made him crazy!!!” So by your logic, it’s true that “Muslims want to kill people because they can’t fuck and have sand in their cocks!!!” and “Hitler was awesome, despite that whole Holocaust thing…”
This made me very sad. This kid was a victim. No one cared for him. His parents are the personification of the American parents. The child misbehaves? Kick him/her out.
That is what happened to this girl in some kind of town -I saw in a true crime story in tv- The girl was 16, she misbehaved. She went to ask for help to her grandmother, the grandmother kicked her out. The girl went to rob an elderly lady ending up killing the old lady. Now the girl is something like 28, in prison. Parole was denied to her because of something wrong that she did while in jail.
Do you see the picture? You don’t kick your kids out of your household.
How you dare to kick your kids out? You brought them to this world, It is your freaking responsibility to care for them for the rest of your life. That is how I think Latin people are.
I meant that Latin people, we care for our relatives for the rest of our lives. No matter what.
As I am reviewing material for a coming test:
5. Of the following, the major cause of juvenile delinquency is
a)parental rejection
b)poverty
c)cultural conflict
d)inferior biological structure
Guess the right answer?
a)parental rejection. That is what happened to poor Robert. Peace be with him. He had nothing but suffering and misery in his short life.
I’d say that since he had enough time to go around his neighborhood and try to sell Valium to 13-year-old kids, he had a few good times.
Since he had time to smoke out, and drink and all.
And shoot eight innocent people. Don’t forget that.
This web site makes me sick! How dare anyone judge who should and should not go to hell. Anyone who has anything bad to say about Robert Hawkins should open The Bible prior to their mouth! Mabey if american people put forth all the energy we spend hating others to loving them instead we wouldn’t have to deal with such tragic events.
“Martin Bryant, killed 35, (Port Arthur massacre, Australia, 1996)
So fuck Australia and fuck you too”
What I meant was this really wouldn’t have happened in Australia. Gun sprees are not weekly events, they happen about once a decade here. And I did not say that guns made him crazy. I said that he could have been crazy all he liked, until the cows came home, but in Australia he would never have killed anyone because he wouldn’t have a gun. If we had gun shops and lax gun laws like you did then we might have just as many school sprees and public killingathons as you do. But we do not so we don’t.
If he did not live in America and have access to a gun then he would not have killed. I know this for a fact. And if you can’t see it, then it is no wonder that you are so used to gun massacres that you can no longer see guns as a problem that enables these mass killings.
““Muslims want to kill people because they can’t fuck and have sand in their cocks!!!†and “Hitler was awesome, despite that whole Holocaust thing…—
And did you realize you are comparing your average school kid to religious ultra extremists?
“What I meant was this really wouldn’t have happened in Australia. Gun sprees are not weekly events, they happen about once a decade here. And I did not say that guns made him crazy. I said that he could have been crazy all he liked, until the cows came home, but in Australia he would never have killed anyone because he wouldn’t have a gun. If we had gun shops and lax gun laws like you did then we might have just as many school sprees and public killingathons as you do. But we do not so we don’t.”
It’s not a weekly event here either. Gun violence more common than Australia for sure, but it’s not like Americans sit around going “Hey, 16 people got shot up today, Christmas time already?”, or, “Jason killed some teachers. Report card time’s a bitch…”
“If he did not live in America and have access to a gun then he would not have killed. I know this for a fact. And if you can’t see it, then it is no wonder that you are so used to gun massacres that you can no longer see guns as a problem that enables these mass killings.”
He stole the gun from his father. His Dad could have filled as many papers as he could be given, had to have gone through as long a waiting period as ever, it made no difference. He stole the gun.
“And did you realize you are comparing your average school kid to religious ultra extremists?”
Do you realize “average school kids” don’t usually don’t go around blowing peoples brains out when they get depressed so that they will “go out in style”? Evidently you don’t.
I read an article from ABC news claiming there was no sign of him writing “go out in style” as most people claim. Just thought I’d mention it, I don’t know if it’s true or not.
Read his note;
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hxwegNvqlLIZhRpWG_gsPJaSsulQD8TCTFM00
To his friends;
“Just think tho I’m gonna be (expletive) famous”
He also wrote;
“I just want to take a few pieces of (expletive) with me.”
He was a sociopath that thought everyone was below him, and felt that if he had to go down, others had to go down with him.
That being said, I haven’t seen anything about him being bullied or anyone abandoning him. What I’ve heard was that he was an awkward boy who could be quite an asshole, which was probably the reason his parents through him out, he lost his job, and his girlfriend left. People get so high and mighty “How dare you! You don’t know what he was going through!!!”. Neither do they, they don’t know if he was bullied, or a bully. It’s never your own fault these days. Had he had just killed himself, he’d be a victim. Since he killed other people, innocent people, people he regarded as “pieces of shit”, people whose murder he premeditated, he deserves hell.
Lordy.
First of all, it just seems logical that you would teach your children to not be bullies- because who would want a bully for a child? The people who have no problem with this are not in tune with how to have your children be liked. Like Lori Drew.
Who would be proud of having a bullying child?
As far as bullying- I had my fair share growing up, and for some reason managed to not allow it to influence me. At the same time, as an adult, I will not tolerate either of my children to be rude, negative or bullying towards anyone, and I don’t tolerate it directed at my children.
The admin is right, in the sense that you cannot excuse being bullied as a reason to harm other people when it is proven that not all people who are bullied end up being murderers.
My guess is that there needs to be some research done about why certain people (like myself) have been bullied and yet are able to rise above it, while other kids are not.
I’m going to take a leap and suggest that it has some underlying psychological reason. It’s not that I had tons of support when I was being teased/bullied, and even physically attacked in high school. It’s more that somehow I was able to ignore what other people thought.
As I have two boys, I’d love to be able to stereotype and say that because they have such a fan in mom, and family support, that they’ll be a-ok- but I dont think that’s what it’s about. I had no family support- yet I was able to get over the bullying I experienced.
I really believe this is a psychological issue that has no link to family support or otherwise, and should be researched as such.
When I read about many of these cases, they don’t seem to be in any degree as severe as some of the situations I’ve had to deal with. So what makes some people crack under those situations, and not other people? That is what people should be studying, instead of some new way to medicate children to deal with real life.
He was an idiot, a cowardly fool. No matter what his life was, he picked random people to kill – not people who tormented him, not people who had a great life – people at random. Likely some with far, far, far worse lives than his. He’s an idiot, a coward, and a fool. He just wanted to be famous to make up for the pathetic life that he made for himself. That’s all there is to him. A mediocrity who did something horrible to other innocent normal people, because he couldn’t stand to face the reality of what he was.
He could have been anything he chose to be – he just wasn’t ready to work hard enough for it. He took the cowards way out. He didn’t crack – he just got lazy.
This weeks shooting has already happened, in a church this time. I wonder where next weeks shooting will be…
Yeah, I wonder how America fucked this church shooter over and left him totally no choice but to kill people. Maybe since he walked into a church, he got mad because they were “Damning people to hell.”. What do you think Samantha…
I think that giving people guns and them damning them to hell is pretty fucking stupid.
Yes, yes it is fucking stupid. It also never fucking happens. You’re telling me everyone in America just sits around with a gun all day going “You’re going to hell!” all day long? If that’s the thought process you’re using, then I can say “All the Muslims hate freedom and want to wrap up our women and kill all the homos!”, and it is true. Put some thought into next time you type, because repeating “JESUS FREAK GUN TOTER!” over and over isn’t getting any point across at all, other than the fact that you really hate George Bush, and I guess to a lesser extent, the U.S. as a whole.
Maybe you keep saying that because simply because of this website? If that’s the case, I guess if we went on over to Rotten.com, the reason Robert killed people was because he looked at dead people online all day. It’s the internet, and you can pretty much say anything you want online, whether it be as insignificant as “This movie sucks”, something politically motivated like “Fuck George W. Bush!!!”, or, whether you like it or not, “Wow, killing people while they were shopping at the mall? That kids going to hell…”
god help this kids family the only way i feel for him is for his family he thinks that going and doing this is going to help him so much… you selfish piece of crap if you had such a horrible life think of the ppl that loved you and go get some help when ppl end their lives for the simple reason life is so tough your more of a coward then everyone really thinks and if he deserves to go to hell or heaven that isnt our place to say that he had to face god and gods the one that makes the final choice i feel for the families that had to go thru this guys meltdown…so for anyone that has these same problems inside go get help b 4 you go to a mall and kill innocent bistanders <3 rip to all the victims and god bless their families but to all you ppl that judge this kid had a family too they lost their son grandchild friend etc. and to call the x gf a slut wow your a lowlife you dont think she feels bad enough she probably is grieving too….
there are alot of parents that teach there kids not to bully.and try to make them under stand how hurtful it is from the time they can talk till the time they start school but it dont mean they will listen…some kids bully because its what there friends are doing or they are just born evil…i think this kid was born evil…
It doesn’t matter to me what you Americans do with your guns, I do not live in America so I do not need to live in fear of guns like you do. Anyway, this weeks gun event was a kid bringing a gun to school but he was stopped before he got the chance to use it. I was wrong about the weekly gun headlines and sprees in America, they are happening far more often than just once a week.
What is sad is that I already have forgotten what this guy’s name is.
If he wanted to be famous, this probably wasn’t the best way to go about it.
Yeah, I remember the name ‘Columbine’ as being a school where a bunch of kids were killed for no reason, but don’t remember the murderers names.
Heads up, kids! If you want to be famous, killing a bunch of people for no reason isn’t the route to take.
Once again, you ignore any argument in place of “Americans got the guns!!!”. You still haven’t answered why living in America makes someone who ” would have been a sweet guy that was happy to help out his community”. You never answered why you keep saying “because you damn people to hell!”.
Scroll up, bitch. This isn’t “Gun Violence; An International Dialog”. This is “People You’ll See In Hell; Robert Hawkins”. Gun issues are one thing, simply having guns around doesn’t make someone to a Goddamn thing. This isn’t about people committing gun crimes, this is about a kid who walked in a mall and killed 8 people because he felt sad. You came here and started spouting off this bullshit about how “owning guns and damning everybody to hell!!!” People are fucked up and every country, and how you came up with “Had he lived in Canada, he very well may have been the man who cured cancer!” is beyond me. We can “blame poor Robert” all fucking day, because “poor Robert” killed people and planed it out ahead of time. but I guess if he lived in Australia, he would never have done it, because after all, he would’ve met you, because after all, you “don’t think he is unattractive at all. The opposite actually.”
God, and to think this entire thing could have been avoided if old Samantha over here told him she thought he was attractive.
By the way;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Melbourne_CBD_shootings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardross_road_accident
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_dante_arthurs.htm
Guess Australia needs to fine tune that whole “Everyones happy!” deal.
And my personal favorite;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots
You know, for all the gun toting, damning others to hell that we’re so passionate about over here, we really haven’t had a good ethnically motivated riot against Middle Easterners yet. Unless you want to count some of that whole nastiness in the months following 9/11 (which we know you do.).
Falling a bit behind “keeping everyone happy”, don’t ya think?
samantha—are you telling me thewres no guns were you live?where do you live mars?there are guns everywhere.not just america.
Not just no guns, Mandy. There’s no sadness or ugly people either.
and where is that?…lala land….
Of course not! Why it’s Australia of course!
In Australia, there no violence, no crime, no sadness! When someone gets depressed, they go out and are happy to help the community! Robert would have NEVER hurt anyone there. Why, he would have never hurt himself!
Of course, if he did, we would never know about it(because suicides aren’t allowed to be reported by the press in Australia). But hey, not knowing about it is JUST like it never happened at all.
No, the real reason poor Robert killed all them people wasn’t mental illness or evil at all! It was because big, mean, stupid America didn’t love him enough. Instead of sending out agents to make sure he got his daily hug requirement, we were too busy owning guns and damning people to hell! Don’t ask me what that means, I won’t tell you. I’ll just repeat it over and over until you acknowledge I’m right.
So really, it’s not Roberts problem at all! After all, he seemed like such a sweet kid, if you overlook that whole mass murder business. Besides, all of that was really our fault anyway.
ok…i get it now…like alot of other people on here,you are one of those people that are here pranking people and trying to piss people off.i knew it buy the stupid shit you are saying…warning to all.do not take joe and samantha seriously…they are 2 jack asses on here trying to piss people off….
man…it seems like every day i catch a bunch of moronic people just comming on here saying…huh,i think i will piss every1 of today…that sucks!!
No, Joe is mocking Samantha.
How could you read my last post and take it as anything but sarcastic?
sorry joe..got confused.
im not myself today
just call me little miss stupid today:)
you people are so dumb your fighting over comments each other are leaving where have you lost your mind this is a chatting site to find a new love were blogging about this kid and what he did to these people you idiots
yes guns kill but the gun didnt go off by itself banning guns is just dumb what if some rapist comes into your house and comes after your wife and children what are you going to go after them a butter knife get real and cops arent always there in time to stop them.. im not saying give everyone guns but dont ban them just cuz some people are dumb with them punish everyone…i think not
Joe, you don’t understand at all. Australian shootings are rare, you actually had to use Wikipedia just to find a few over the past two decades! I only have to recall my memory to find a few in this past few weeks alone. The latest one was in Vegas, 6 people shot.
Robert wouldn’t have killed here because it would have been statistically unlikely and because he would have been happier and our health system would have actually diagnosed and helped him from an early age.
And Joe, if you stop replying to this thread I will assume that you have been shot in a rampage in America. If I stop posting, you should only assume that I am continuing to live a happy and healthy life free of fear of guns.
you are so full of shit samantha…
No, Samantha, you don’t get it.This isn’t about gun laws in America or gun violence in Australia. This is about a fucktarded kid who decided it was ok to go out and kill people.
You said before about how this was never poor, sweet Roberts fault at all, it was America that made him do it, and when I called you out on it, you said nothing, just kept responding with more “A-HA see more shot up Americans what retards they are!”. Now I’m going to ask you again; how did America go out and make poor victim Robert go kill people? How is Robert a victim of anything besides normal, everyday, unimportant bullshit that every person goes through? Was it simply having the guns available to him (i.e.-stole the fucking thing), is that why poor victim Robert was totally forced to go out and kill people?
You never once came up with a reason why Robert was a victim of anything at all. Everything you said was;
“GUNS AND DAMNING PEOPLE TO HELL IS STUPID!”
“GUNS!”
“GUNS!”
“STUPID ASS AMERICANS AND THEIR GUNS!”
How does any of it make Robert a victim of anything? Answer it, since you’re so convinced it’s true.
And Samantha, if you stop replying to this thread I will assume you were too busy off rioting against the Muslims.
I just love watching people argue about guns.
Regardless of what take anyone wants to have on it, guns have only one purpose. To kill things.
That is what guns were invented for, and it’s what they are mostly used for.
They were no invented to scare, warn or protect. They were invented to kill things, and that is still what they are used for. They aren’t really as versatile as gun apologists would have us believe.
Knives, um yeah, they can be used to stab someone 50 times. But they have other uses, like cutting up food. Guns have no other purpose or utility.
It makes me laugh watching people debate guns.
Glorybug: Negative!
Guns have all kinds of uses, outside of killing things.
Scaring cats out of trees, getting the lids off of jelly jars, and an easy way to knock on someone’s door without bruising your knuckles all immediately come to mind.
I’m not arguing about guns Goddammit. I’m trying to find out why Samantha over here is so convinced poor Robert was a victim, and she turned the whole thing into a debate about guns.
And if she thinks Robert was a victim, were the two Vegas shooters victims? How are the people who shoot people victims of anything? Why the fuck won’t she answer with anything other than “God damn Americans with their guns!”?
this kid wanted to be famous for all the wrong reasons and all your doing is promoting what he wanted and all your doing by talking about this stuff is giving this kid is the fame he wanted do you even know what this website is about anymore cuz all i can see is people arguing about guns and how much ppl hate bush and america grow up you dont even live in OUR country so get out of our affairs
I disagree as well. I had a bb handgun and it was great stress management. My roomate would drink all the beer and I would shoot the cans and bottles on the patio. Fun stuff right there!
i seen his mother on the news thismorning talking about it and him and she didnt act all that broken up..didnt even shed a tear…her only concern was that people didnt think badly of her
“No, Samantha, you don’t get it.This isn’t about gun laws in America or gun violence in Australia. This is about a fucktarded kid who decided it was ok to go out and kill people.”
This is why you will never understand Joe. You are not smart enough to see a connection between someone wanting to kill lots of people and liberal gun control giving him a gun. You are too dim witted to see that you have admitted to the very point that I am making, that people can get guns in America and those very same people “decided it was ok to go out and kill people.”
The fact is you are far more likely to die from a gunshot than I am and I am far more likely to die of old age than you are. Japan has some of the best gun control laws in the world, and you personally have a 30000% (yes, that is thirty THOUSAND percent) more chance of being killed by a gun than a boy your age in Japan.
I, for one, despise guns. I think they’re horrible. I also think that the world would be a better place if we could all, every person on Earth, agree to destroy them once and for all. However, I live in the real world where I don’t always get my way. The bottom line is that you can’t logically blame guns for the actions of an obviously unstable person. Someone that mentally ill is going to do what he’s going to do, with or without a gun. This kid made a choice. He deliberately drove to the mall, fully armed, walked into that store and opened fire. There was a series of choices he made that had nothing to do with his having access to a gun.
The gun didn’t whisper in his ear to go out and kill people. You can keep up your condescending bullshit all day long, but you came in here and said that Robert would have never even been depressed and would have been an upstanding citizen had he not lived in America. Never once did you elaborate on what exactly America did that forced him to kill people, other than repeated “damning people to hell!” over and over again, and turn the discussion into a debate about gun laws.
You’ve got you’re head shoved so far up your ass that you can’t explain why America actually drove him to violence, all you’ve done was say that the opportunity alone was the incentive, which I call bullshit on. You can keep calling me dimwitted and continue to say that everyone who doesn’t agree with you “is just too damn stupid!”, but you’re still not answering the question, opting instead to stay on your high horse and preach about how it’s great in Australia.
I’ll ask it one more time, because evidently, despite Australia’s low gun rate, the literacy rate is clearly below average and people there can’t comprehend simple questions;
How did living in the United States turn someone from a “poor, sweet kid” into someone who knowingly planed and committed mass murder.
I’m going to assume your answer will be answer “Because he could.”, because, with all your lecturing, that seems to be the general gist of it. So by your logic, could I kick a dog, simply because I was able to? Should motive not be considered at all, should the option alone be an acceptable explanation for the action?
“The gun didn’t whisper in his ear to go out and kill people.”
Not a very good opening like for your argument. Did the airplane whisper into the terrorists ears to go out and smash it into your buildings? Or should the airport perhaps have shown better safety and control to net let them get a hold of the cockpit to begin with? If your entire family was raped tomorrow by an escaped convict, would it be your family that whispered into the rapists ear to rape them, or should the state have had better control over its prisoners and not allowed a prisoner such easy access to your country? Your argument that guns don’t kill people is rediculous, guns do kill people, many many people. If Robert couldn’t have had a gun he might have used a knife. He would have tried to stab someone in the mall, but he would have been tackled to the ground and it is likely that no one would have died at all.
“Should motive not be considered at all, should the option alone be an acceptable explanation for the action?”
A stupid closer too. Everyone knows that in law motive and means are important. Motive was that he was unstable. Means was the gun. Without the means the crime would never have happened. It doesn’t take a freaking literacy student to figure that one out. Once again if you do not post back I can only assume that you were one of the 260 Americans that are shot every single day. I can’t blame you for being uneasy, knowing that anyone around you could have a gun. A couple of dozen of you Yanks actually kill yourself each day with your own guns, so you can’t even trust yourself with guns! The only comfort with that fact is knowing that those couple of dozen that die daily were all gun owners. So each hour of each day there are a couple less gun owners in America ^_^
Cold comfort perhaps, but coincidentally if they didn’t have guns they might not have had the guts to kill themselves.
“Did the airplane whisper into the terrorists ears to go out and smash it into your buildings?”
God did, according to them. But thats beside the point.
You came here and said that “if he grew up in any other 1st world country I’d bet he would have just been a sweet guy that was happy to help out his community.”
And now say he was mentally unstable, and would have used a knife had he not had a gun, but why would “poor sweet Robert” even hurt people at all had he never lived in America? Your original argument was that poor Robert isn’t to blame for any of this, which was my problem with you. You kept on about how “damning people to hell” fucked him up, how he would have never thought of hurting anyone in Australia, and how he was just like a wild dog nobody trained. That’s what my problem with you was. I was never here to defend gun violence at all, I was here to say that in Robert’s head, it was ok to hurt people, because he was a sick fuck, not because he lived in America. That’s my argument, and what every one of my posts was about.
Now you say he was screwed up all along, but insist it’s no longer relevant to the topic, that everyones here to argue with you over guns.
It doesn’t matter though, you won’t ever say what “Damning people to hell all day” means, won’t say what exactly America did to him that made him unstable and keep up with “stupid yanks and their guns”. Doesn’t matter tho, I was wondering why you thought Robert was such a victim, and you’re never going to explain it.
If I don’t post back, though, it’s not going to be because I’m dead. I actually have a gun to, and I’ve been feeling kind of down lately. I think I’ll walk on over to the store and let everyone know just what a victim I am. If I have time after damning people to hell, that is.
“And now say he was mentally unstable, and would have used a knife had he not had a gun, but why would “poor sweet Robert†even hurt people at all had he never lived in America?”
In America anyway he might have used a knife instead of a gun, but he wouldn’t have killed anyone. So are you admitting that if guns were not available no one might have died? Or do you not even know what you are saying anymore?
“Now you say he was screwed up all along, but insist it’s no longer relevant to the topic, that everyones here to argue with you over guns.”
You are attempting to use a straw man argument, and you are not doing a very good job of it either. He may well have been screwed up since birth, but other 1st would countries would have treated him better, he wouldn’t have felt the need to kill to begin with.
He is a victim because had he grown up in my country he would be no different than any of my people. He is accountable for what he did, of course he is, but he still would not have been able to do this if Americas gun laws did not let him and he would not have wanted to do it if Americas social and health system didn’t leave him in the dark and facilitate what he was feeling in his head. You do not seem to be able to understand these things, you cannot even understand them long enough to rebuke them. Instead you keep blabbering on about “damning people to hell”, which is something that America does do, but is something that only made up 1 percent of my point that isn’t even directly related to the problems you have.
I wonder why they gave you a gun if you are not even smart enough to follow the simple points I am making. Who was it that thought “Hmm, this Joe seems like a pretty dim witted lad, I guess we had better give him a gun. That way he can still open his car door when he forgets that his keys were in his other hand all along.”
And did you know that, according to your deprtment of health, because you own a gun you are 5 times more likely to kill yourself, three times more likely to kill a friend or family member, and almost 50 times more likely to kill a friend or yourself than kill an intruder?
And people who have access to guns are 100 percent more likely to go on a shooting rampage when compared to people with no access to a gun.
Susan and angry ..u are right on….
Brittney….u scare me…please dont ever become a parent
samantha …u have too much to say….That smart people cant understand
Samantha…please dont reproduce.
Megan….could u be more uninformed
Joe…u have to be in a coma
Can sara get a cotton candy cloud to live on?
Grow a pair A-Drew..ur too soft
Admin- the mental image of you knocking on my door with a gun was just priceless. Thanks for the laugh.
Samantha- I think you are missing the point. Supposedly Canada has way more guns perhousehold than we do in the US… but somehow they have way less crime than we do. Go figure.
I don’t like guns. Not all of America are gun-crazy rednecks who marry their cousins. In fact, it isn’t so much ‘people having guns’ that is the problem, it’s ‘criminals having guns’ that is to blame. Usually guns that they stole from the non-criminals.
Crazy people will do crazy things, whether they can get their hands on a gun or not, and owning a gun does not automatically make people go crazy.
Speaking of which, I’m not sure your claim that Australia has such low crime rate due to gun control is all that good of an argument, unless you are only discussing GUN crimes.
Because, if I am not mistaken, the Aboriginals in Australia supposedly have one of the highest murder rates, and one of the highest rates of abuse/rape/killing of women. Way higher than the US. Does all that killing and violence not count, because you claim nobody in Australia has guns? Also, I recall having read several articles about serial killers in Australia (there’s been quite a few of them), and I’m pretty sure it was stated that their victims were all shot to death. How is this possible if, as you claim, there’s no guns there?
Even though I support gun control, I am smart enough to see that murderers will be murderers, and aren’t deterred by not having access to guns. Reading these threads, it appears to me that quite a few people are killed by strangulation and blunt force trauma.
Perhaps instead of debating gun laws, this thread should focus on evil people, mentally disturbed people, and how to generally reduce violence- whether committed by guns or any other method.
c
“In fact, it isn’t so much ‘people having guns’ that is the problem, it’s ‘criminals having guns’ that is to blame. Usually guns that they stole from the non-criminals.”
I never said that criminals should be allowed to keep guns too ;) But how do you tell the difference between a potential armed criminal and a citizen when both can be exactly the same person? And if you need a gun simply because you can’t trust other people who also have guns… why then should I trust you with a gun?
As for how to stop crime and stop people from becoming unstable, education would be a good start. Cutting 3.2 billion dollars from education, like your current government recently did, is NOT a good start.
“samantha …u have too much to say….That smart people cant understand”
kristina… I guess “u” are one of “that” smart people, am I right?
“I wonder why they gave you a gun if you are not even smart enough to follow the simple points I am making. Who was it that thought “Hmm, this Joe seems like a pretty dim witted lad, I guess we had better give him a gun.”
Hell, I don’t know why they gave it to me either. All I know is that it was in somebody else’s house and I had to break in and take it when they weren’t home. I thought that was a strange way to give somebody something. But what do I know, I’m just a big stupid Amurcan. At any case, I guess I better let ya’ll smart international folks get back to figuring out whats good for my government, I gotta get back to work, I never knew what a victim I was ’till I got this gun. It’s funny, before I was given it, I was just a sweet boy, ready to help my community…
YOU ALL NEED TO GET A LIFE. YOU SEEM TO BE MISSING THE POINT. LETS TALK ABOUT WHAT WE COULD HAVE DONE TO PREVENT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED ALREADY INSTEAD OF TRYING TO HELP KIDS WHO HAVE NOT YET GOTTEN TO THAT POINT YET. IN THE MEANTIME, ANOTHER FUCKED UP KID HAS ALREADY STRUCK. GROW UP AND SEE THE BIGGER PICTURE, GENIUSES. OH, BY THE WAY, NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR YOUR FIVE PARAGRAPHS OF RAMBLING, MAKE IT SHORT AND TO THE POINT ASSHOLES.
CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL.
Jules…Seriously?
Joe. you are misinformed in the case of Hawkins. He did not break into someones house and he had permission to use the guns previously. In fact when the lady of the house noticed the assault rifle missing she assumed he was off hunting.
And once again Joe you gloss over all the other points to concentrate on just one, and again you failed at even that. The issue is that people are given guns to begin with, if that family was not given a weapon this would never have happened. The Virginia Tech incident, if the boy was not sold a gun the whole event may not have happened. If he never had access to a gun like in my own country, the shootings would certainly have never happened.
And I’ve given up on listing shooting sprees as they happen, as they have occurred far too frequently for me to keep track of :(
Tell me this, Joe, is your right to own a gun more important than the lives of the innocent that are killed in this sprees?
I am a 35 year old female. I work a full-time job and take collage classes. I am a single mother of two teenage boys. The reason I am posting this is because I have had experience with the drug zoloft. In the 2000 I had recently divorced and was feeling depressed. I told my family doctor about this and he prescribed the lowest dosage of zoloft. Soon after I didnt care about much. normally I do not drink because some people are drinkers and some are not. i am not because it makes me sleepy and usually very sick. During the time I took zoloft I loved to drink. I would wake up craving it. I would have to make myself wait till noon before I took a drink. Eventually I got a DUI because I was wasted and driving. I donteven rember that though. After I stopped taking zoloft I lost the desire to drink. What I am trying to say here is that drugs like that miss with your whole being. After my experience with this I feel that drugs such as this are given out entirely to much. True that I wasent depressed after taking them but what if I had killed someone with my car when I was taking them? This happened almost 8 years ago and I took the meds for about 6 months. It changed my whole being in that time. I drank almost every day. I have drank a few times since then and like i said it makes mesick or sleepy.
I can’t understand you Samantha, I’m a big retarded American with a gun and it’s making me act all crazy and shit. Seriously, it’s like living in a My Chemical Romance video everyday with this thing! Before I had old Blasty, it was just reading to sick kids and helping old ladies cross the street, but not with gunny! Now I just kill the old bitches!
Besides, clearly if I’m doing it, I’m just as much of a victim as those killed. Maybe more! The important thing is that it’s not my problem to worry about it anymore, I’m just a big stupid victim in this whole thing.
Samantha- once again, you miss my point.
I do not like guns. I am anti-gun. I do not like the fact that they are stolen from non-criminals and used to kill people. I also do not like that they kill children who play with them accidentally. I don’t like the fact that they are used to kill animals, as I am a vegetarian and animal-lover.
That said, I do not believe that banning all guns would result in a lower death toll, other than perhaps the accidental shootings. People who want to murder will murder. They will just find different methods to accomplish that.
You mentioned one cause of crime to be related to the US cutting back on school spending. But you are obviously not familiar with how things really are in the US regarding education. It’s worse than you think. In California, where I live, many years ago (not me) people voted to establish a state lottery, based on promises to funnel many of those profits to the school system. Years later, we have not seen any improvement in the education of our children, and have actually experienced the opposite. Schools cheating on their test scores to be able to secure state funding. As was the case with all the lawsuit money the tobacco companies had to pay, any money that is supposed to go directly to schools has suffered from the massive bleeding affect of every greedy entity taking a bite out of those funds, resulting in no real advance in education.
In the case of the tobacco companies, what we are left with is not long-term care for the addicts of their profits, nor for helping the remaining victims of their products, nor any free tobacco cessation programs… instead, we get ‘advertisements’ from those companies about discouraging smoking. I don’t think it’s too sarcastic to think that it is possible that advertising agencies employed to make those advertisements are in some way parented by those same tobacco companies. Our school systems suck, and our tobacco companies suck.
But, none of these things have to do with this thread. It may surprise you to know that not only are uneducated people capable of weilding a gun and murdering people, as well as uneducated people. Or rich people or poor people. And all of those same people are perfectly capable of murdering the people they hate by other methods. If you were able to watch any US television crime shows, you would know this.
Think about it. Are knives, guns, poison, rope, water, bare hands, hard metal objects, or lack of education really responsible for all these murders? Is having an unhappy childhood filled with abuse directly responsible for these murders?
I would say no. That they are only peripherally responsible for these murders. Because they real problem is that certain evil people who want to murder simply use these items as tools to accomplish their goal. That goal being to hurt, injure and kill other people.
(Hint- it’s the murdering that is the problem, not the methods that are used to achieve it.)
c
Oh, and you conveniently failed to address my questioning of the massive numbers of murders in Australia, which according to you did not happen because there’s no guns in Australia. Except that really, there is. As well as volumes of non-gun murders, which kind of destroys your anti-gun argument. I am anti-gun as well, but I’m smart enough to know when an anti-gun agenda is not well-thought-out, or when it is just plainly false.
c
I obviously meant to say this, instead:
“But, none of these things have to do with this thread. It may surprise you to know that not only are “educated people” capable of weilding a gun and murdering people, as well as uneducated people. Or rich people or poor people. And all of those same people are perfectly capable of murdering the people they hate by other methods. If you were able to watch any US television crime shows, you would know this.
My bad.
c
GloryBug it sounds like your making sense, but as Samantha pointed out, we’re all just dimwitted Americans. It doesn’t matter what your points are, they’re evidently wrong if she won’t even acknowledge them. You’re just like me, a big retarded gun-owning Yank. So long as Samantha will keep repeating the same thing over and over again, I assume she’s right.
But hey, don’t feel bad. It’s not our fault! It’s society. Society made me dumb, and this gun makes it ok to take out my stupid on others! We’re all victims man!!!
Well, Joe…
Other than the fact that I am not big, or dimwitted, or own any guns, because I am massively against guns and killing in general, and that I am female, and am not a Yank,(can I be a Yank if I’m Pottowattomie and Ukrainian?)am not sure I even know what a Yank is, (oh, and as far as I know, I am not retarded, either), we are pretty much alike.
I would guess that the things we are alike on are that we live in the USA, that we don’t like murderers, child abusers, etc., and that we’d like to find a real solution that identifies the source of the problem of violence, rather than the tools that are used to commit them?
And the fact that we don’t believe Australians who claim that there is no crime in their country (even though news reports, blogs and internet sites claim there is) because there are no guns in Australia?
While I’m pretty sure we differ on our opinions about guns in general, we probably both agree that fingering guns as the root of American violence is misguided at best. And idiotic, at worst.
I am also going to guess that you share my love for a heaping helping of sarcasm and irony?
“Oh, and you conveniently failed to address my questioning of the massive numbers of murders in Australia”
Per 100,000 people the homicide rate in Australia is 1.5. (Just in case you do not know, homicide is a broad term used to cover all types of manslaughter, murder and infanticide etc.)
Per 100,000 people the United States, and counting ONLY gun homicides alone, the rate is an astonishing 4.0
(just for interest, the same rate for gun homicides alone in Australia is 0.27, yes ZERO point two seven)
So yeah it was convenient that I failed to address your question about murders in Australia… convenient for YOU that is, well until now anyway.
And yes, there used to be a lot more guns in Australia, but we phased them out over the course of a few decades. And you would probably be surprised to know that gun crime and homicides in general lowered over the course of that phasing out guns.
Australian gun laws led to fewer deaths, plain and simple.
Well damn, GloryBug, I guess my big dumb Amurican brain is smaller than I thought! I guess it was my gun made it that way.
Maybe not though, because when I came on this article and saw someone claiming that Robert Hawkins was a poor sweet kid and really the real victim, a victim of a society that paid him no attention, a victim that WE made, that if we want to blame someone we should blame ourselves, and that Robert was like an untrained dog and how that was our fault. My thick Amurican head couldn’t figure out how if people in our country are not happy, don’t blame them, it’s our fault our countries like that.
Here my stupid ass tried to counter THAT argument! I guess another Australian would have CLEARLY seen that this entire issue is about gun laws!
Well, guess that’s my own fault for damning people to hell all day long.
My brain ouch’s now, us Amuricans ain’t smart enough to process that big Australian logic. I’m gonna get Blasty and take out my pain on others. It’s their fault anyway.
i dont think he deserves to go to hell.
he life sucked. ppl treated him awful.
he waas yelling for help and no one heard him.
i bet if anyone felt the weight on his shoulder they would give him a second thought.
yes i kno shooting inocent ppl was wrong. but he took his own life too. and feel very sorry for
everyone that the shooting happened too.
even Robin Hawkins.
“I guess it was my gun made it that way.”
I’m glad that you have finally been blessed with the truth, because you were seriously blinded by your “Guns never killed anyone, basic human right to wield” mentality before. And when you are in that kind of mind frame it makes you impossible to see the truth, just like the KKK can’t broaden their minds to see that black people really are very much the same as everyone else.
Well gee, I don’t ever remember saying “Gun’s aren’t used to harm people.” As I remember, I think my point was that the gun didn’t convince him it was ok to harm those people, and that he at any time could have realized that hurting others (with a gun, knife, rock, cat, what have you..) was wrong. Maybe while he was writing 3 pages of goodbye notes.
I guess I was too busy hating minorities to type my argument clearly enough…
You may very well have been too busy hating minorities because you AGAIN missed my point. I never said guns “convinced” him to do it, I said guns enabled him to do it and that if it were not for guns he would not have had the guts to kill anyone at all (and even if he did, his kill count would have been around zero, or maximum two).
Guns never told him to do it, that is as absurd as the sky talking you and telling you to change your name to something a little less redneck sounding. Guns were the means, not the motive (although guns may have motivated him a little, it wouldn’t have been near as much as the rest of the shit going on in his head).
He couldn’t have killed anyone with a cat, he wouldn’t have with a rock (he’s a bit on the skinny side, wouldn’t have the strength) and stabbing people only offers a chance of killing them before someone holds him down. Any other kind of killing is left to chance that it will succeed. Guns are the only way he could have killed eight, four or even two people. Guns have a unique magic about them that even a skinny geek can kill people, when otherwise that geek wouldn’t have even be able to beat me in a fight.
“Guns never told him to do it”
Well shit, so your saying that even though the gun made it possible to kill people, the ultimate decision was still up to him whether or not to use to kill people? Well Goddamn, that sounds like the point I made a week ago;
“The gun didn’t whisper in his ear to go out and kill people.â€
Of course when I said it, it was stupid and irrelevant, but now since YOU say it, it’s valid.
Or maybe I should just start arguing over single sentences in your posts, since that’s your method, and are clearly outsmarting everyone else. Let’s try…
“otherwise that geek wouldn’t have even be able to beat me in a fight.”
So now he was a skinny geek! Thats the kind of attitude that drove poor sweet Robert to commit this act! Why I’ll bet that someone calling him a skinny geek was the very thing that set him off and killed those people! It’s YOUR kind of hateful, stereotyping attitude that drives choir boys to become killers! I’m sure he was tired of being victimized by people like you!
let’s hope Joe isn’t a skinny geek with a gun that has voices in his head.
Even if I am, anything I do isn’t my fault.
Joe, you still don’t seem to grasp the fact that without access to guns neither of us would ever have heard of Robert Hawkins. Were it not for the gun, those 8 people would still be alive. Were it not for the gun Hawkins would have probably gotten over it when he realized that he would just chicken out while standing over a bridge, and he would have gone back to another fast food job and gone on with his life.
The way you see it a gun is either a precious possession that is completely void of all power and played no part in the shootings, or it’s like it was possessed by the Devil and it talked to him at night until it took control of his body and made him kill eight people.
What is so hard to accept about the gun, and liberal gun laws, being the means to his crimes and without the means there wouldn’t have been a crime to begin with?
And don’t go all stupidly sarcastic on me again, you can’t avoid the hard questions like that all the time.
Guns are not the problem.
People are the problem.
Samantha, I never defended gun laws. I never told you that guns aren’t used to kill people. My point was that Robert was never a victim. Nobody drove him to the point he had to kill anyone, he made a conscious decision to go blow peoples brains out anyway. For that he deserves to go to hell, and that’s why he is on this site.
You came here and said that Robert was a victim of society, how we made him what he was, how it was never his fault and how the country made him what he was.
We all go through the same shit in life, and from what was reported about Robert, the shit that drove him over the edge was everyday bullshit. Nothing about being bullied, molested or any other form of being victimized. Nobody made him a monster. And mentally unstable or not, he had it together enough to know what he was about to do was wrong, and knew it the entire time he wrote 3 pages of goodbye notes, and I imagine he knew while he was doing it. “Poor” Robert tore apart the lives of 8 different families, and planned it ahead beforehand, because he decided that since he needed to go out, he needed to take out others with him.
You show up and declare this piece of shit a victim, that he knew not of what he did. Robert Hawkins may have had issues that he needed help with, but he had ceased becoming a victim the moment he killed that first person, and cemented the fact he was an evil motherfucker when he killed 7 more.
My entire issue with you has been that you believe Robert was a victim, just like all those he killed. I believe that he knew good and damn well that what he was doing, that he knew it was wrong, that he planned it well in advance, and had plenty of time to change his mind and not go through with it. He did it anyway.
If he had enough time to change his mind dangling off a bridge to decide suicide is stupid, he had enough time writing 3 pages of notes that murder was wrong. He did it anyway. Robert Hawkins is not a victim. Robert Hawkins is an evil, murdering son of a bitch, and Robert Hawkins is in hell.
If you had grown up as him you would not have done anything differently (I believe Lincoln said that).
And you have been defending guns and saying that guns have had no role in the incident the whole time.
I said he is a monster for what he did, but I also said that it wouldn’t have happened in other countries like Britain and Australia. And it wouldn’t have happened. Shooting sprees do not happen in those countries. So just what is your problem Joe? You can’t handle the fact that America is famous for having liberal gun laws and also just as famous for the constant shooting sprees? You can’t accept that if America was better to its young people that these sprees wouldn’t happen?
Nothing can excuse Robert for what he did, but he is a victim. A victim of circumstance. His shooting spree was unique to America, plain and simple, and no matter how evil you feel Robert is, he would never have done this had he not grown up in America. If you love your country, good for you, but don’t pretend that Robert was not an American just like you. Robert Hawkins and his actions were home grown, he wasn’t being conditioned or beat down by an external force, he was an American and everything he experienced, everything in his life that made him what he is came from America. Everyday people, people like you, did their little bit to make Robert Hawkins the person he was.
And there is no heaven, hell, god or devil, so Roberts after life will be exactly the same as yours = non existent.
My problem isn’t Americas “famous shooting sprees”. It’s people like you always sitting there making up excuses for when people do horrible shit to others. Don’t bring this shit “If you had grown up as him you would not have done anything differently”, I’ve known people a hell of a lot worse off than little pussy Robert, and not only do they manage to not kill people because of it, some of them even get over and lead normal, success lives. I guess nobody needs to ever take personal responsibility anymore, seeing as if they fail, the people around them played more than a small role, hm?
This is the entire point. Robert knew what he was doing and had it together enough to know it was wrong. He was not a victim, and he never was. Do you believe those killed played a small part in creating their own killer. Do you think they had it coming? Was Timothy McVeigh a victim of Americas cruelty too? I’m sure you’ll think up a good excuse for him too.
well Joe….people do handle things differently than others. if something seems light to you it probably could have affected someone else differently. duh
there was a young girl in my high school who was harrassed and her car was vandalized because she was gay. not openly gay mind you. I was openly gay and I started a gay straight alliance. she ended up killing herself the summer she was going to become a junior. when people did shit to me, which wasn’t often, i’d laugh in their face. things affect people differently; it all depends on how many open wounds are already there.
Well Brittany, that still doesn’t make it ok to kill people. duh.
I have teenagers. I know them. I can not help to think if he would have actully gone through with this if his so-called mother would have answered the phone when he called her and left the voice mail that she played on GMA. Parents are to raise children, giving them the tools that they need to become happy productive adults. I do not think he was given the tools he needed to cope with his situations. The ‘state’ told him what he needed to do, but did they teach him how? Children need to be taught. His parents did not seem to be there for him from a young age, and telling from the voice-mail, they were not there even in the end. She was more concerned about ‘god’ then her own son. I glad that my children have parents who care. I would have given him the tools he needed, not expected everyone else do do it for me. With no tools, he seemed use what he had, loathing self-hatered. He should NOT have done what he did. But, I think that if he would have ‘taken out’ those church people who protest at the veterns’ funerals, we would all consider him a ‘hero’. Just something to thinkk about.
Joe you’re a schmo. I didnt’ say it did. I’m commenting towards the ““If you had grown up as him you would not have done anything differentlyâ€, I’ve known people a hell of a lot worse off than little pussy Robert, and not only do they manage to not kill people because of it, some of them even get over and lead normal, success lives.” comment you left. Just saying that things affect different people differently. DUH
I agree with you NE Mom…if us young people aren’t given the proper tools growing up to succeed it’s a lot harder. Some people might manage, however there’s always holes where those tools are missing.
“This is the entire point. Robert knew what he was doing and had it together enough to know it was wrong.”
Well that’s the difference between you and me, Australia and America. You are happy to own a gun and let these things happen. I try to figure out why they happened, and would like to see an end to the reasons they happen in the first place. One of the reasons are the guns. Without them shooting sprees do not happen. Another reason is the way Robert was feeling, with better and more effective health care not as many sprees would happen. Better schooling, if kids were treated better in school instead of being bullied by people like you they wouldn’t be outcasts, and they wouldn’t grow up feeling like the world is against them.
If you were bullied, teased or outcast every single day for a decade at school could anyone blame you for feeling like the world was against you?
You are happy to see innocent people die so long as you do not have to shoulder any of the responsibility and so you do not have to think about change to stop these things. Like you implied, it is easier for you to just hold ‘ol Blammy and not give a fuck about why these shooting sprees happen in the first place.
Samantha-
You provided incorrect information regarding crime in Australia, and specifically did not address the facts I gave about the aboriginal culture there.
The difference between you and I is that I do not pretend to know every detail about your country.
How you’ve become such an expert on crime in America, especially guns, which you seem to think is the root of all violence, I can’t imagine.
Based on the rosy perfect descriptions of Australia as a country bereft of crime due only to the lack of all guns over the last 2 decades, I’d guess that you are Australian. And and anti-gun freak.
Since you do not even know the status of crime in your country, I doubt anyone cares much about your opinion about its cause in countries you obviously know nothing about.
Your perky, simple-minded mindset is amusing, though.
Another difference between you and I is that not only am I massively anti-gun, I am anti-all weapons. I am against hunting or killing any/all animals too. So you could say I’m almost an anti-gun freak.
But, not completely, because at least I am intelligent enough to realize that even though I have my opinions, values and causes- I don’t manipulate the facts, fool myself and try to fool others as to what the cause of violence is, just to push my agenda on other people.
Stop trying to push your agenda and it will be easy to see that you have the whole situation bass-ackward.
Eliminating guns will not eliminate crime or the roots of violence.
However, removing the root of crime and violence certainly will result in no need for guns at all. AT ALL. Not even for hunting, because that is also a form of violence. So take a minute and rethink your faulty logic. And then google ‘Australia’ and ‘murder’.
And, please stop babbling about a country you obviously know nothing about. I doubt anyone from the USA would be interested in adopting anyything about your country. That would make as much sense as suggesting that the USA just needs more dingos (wait, don’t those kill babies?) or kangaroos in order to be more like your perfect country.
Please. Use logic in your argumants.
c
(ahem, obviously meant ‘arguments’)
Joe, I think both you and Brittany are in more agreement than you think.
In response to this untruth- “If you had grown up as him you would not have done anything differently (I believe Lincoln said that).” you are both kind of saying similar things in slightly different ways. And I doubt Lincoln said it quite like that, or in any context applicable to this topic. I’m guessing the reference is to the American Lincoln? Amazing how people from other countries think they know so much about the USA… they seem to refer and quote things they think are historical to America, but I never understand what their point is.
No matter who said it, (I’m sure many people have said that in order to bolster a weak argument), it’s laughable. If it were true, then because myself, my sister and my brother all grew up in the same house with the same parents, same rules, same environment, why are we nothing alike? Why is my sister a goody-two-shoes, my brother a miscreant, and myself aomeone who is no angel, but manages to stay out of trouble? We should all be the same.
The only way this statement could prove true would be if I actually WAS Robert Hawkins, and grew up with his family and environment. Then, sure, I’d end up jsut like him, because I’d BE him. The only intelligent reason to even state that would be because it would mean that in order to NOT end up just like him, I would have to have either have been myself in a situation like his, or be him in a completely different situation.
I could never have ended up just like him, even if I grew up in his house, and he could never have ended up just like me simply because he grew up in my parent’s house.
There are only 2 variables here. Personality and environment. Environment does not soley form personality, nor can personality completely disassociate from environment.
I hate guns. I’d love to think guns are the source of every problem, but it is not true. My brother in law and my previous employer both collect many various guns/rifles, yet neither one of them has ever killed anyone when they were in a pissy mood or angry, even though they have plenty of guns to choose from.
So, Joe is very right about many of the things he says.
Brittany is also right, in that different people will react differently to the same triggers. People who are able to ignore, dismiss, or laugh off cruelty and bullying are more likely to not have it affect them. Some people kill themselves over trivial non-real relationships, while others can have the real love of their life die… and yet manage to go on.
Putting too much value in what other people think of you is a sure way to develop oversensitivity that will not be mentally healthy. I’d guess that’s why Brittany is alive today, when the girl she went to high school with is not.
Learning to have appropriate reactions to conflict and stress would prevent more murders than obliterating every gun, knife, brick, or object that could be used as a weapon.
And another thing. I do not understand why so many people do not seem to know that people do actually have a lot of control over what their personality is like, and who they will become as a person. It is fluid, not set in stone, and can be chosen. That is why while a large number of abusers and murderers were abused as children, the majority of people abused as children do not end up being abusers. Because they choose not to be. While you may not be able to control your social status, looks, wealth, because these things often are due to variables that are not easy to change, ANYONE can change who they want to be as a person, because it is a personal choice of how you want to respond to the random things that happen to everyone in life.
There are many beautiful, rich people who are not nice people, and who are not really liked by many, and they never seem content or happy… they always need MORE of something.
And, there are many poor, homely people who are well liked, and they are satisfied with their lives.
And vice versa, and many combinations of all those variables. The key is taking responsibility for who you want to be as a person. I do not have a lot of sympathy for Robert Hawkins, because he had a choice of what kind of a person he wanted to be, and he chose to be a selfish, cruel, ugly, murderous person.
I’m not going to join his pity party, and I’m not going to sit quietly while a myriad of excuses, like ‘guns’ are being used to excuse or to have caused what was, in effect, just him not wanting to be a good person.
c
I’m glad your amused, because all of my statistics came from the official Beuro of Statistics in Australia and your official FBI web site.
And pahlease, your little thoughts on the Aboriginal people were pointless and stupid. The Aboriginals here have been abandoned, the ones you talk about live in very small secluded camps and towns and they do do all those nasty things to each other. The official statistics I read included everyone in Australia, Aboriginals and all, and America is STILL astonishingly high on the murder, gun murder, crime, gun crime, sexual assault and rape numbers per 1,000 compared to Australia.
You cannot avoid the cold hard truth. America is far more dangerous compared to Australia and Britain, and it is astronomically more dangerous compared to countries like Japan.
And I never said guns excused him of his actions. I only made the simple point that if it were not for guns, it never would have happened. Americans just don’t understand though, it doesn’t quite “click in” inside their heads that in these cases guns kill approximately ten thousand percent more people compared to no guns being available.
And you may laugh at quotes like Lincolns, and a lot of you laugh at that kind of mind frame. That is one of the reasons why your people get so unhappy, because you laugh in the face of compassion and empathy. No one’s asking you to forgive Hawkins, or say that the Columbine killers did no wrong. The only obvious thing is to understand why they did it and stop dicking things up the same way to prevent it again.
No one can make you do anything though ^_^ And your attitude demonstrates to me one of Americas biggest problems. Admitting that you did something wrong and the refusal to stop doing it and change those things because you are too afraid of being wrong. This is why you will always be confused by these massacres, you break down and cry while asking “Why did this happen, why, why, why!?!” but you are too scared to answer the question of why it happened because you simply do not want to know. You do not want to change, you are fine with just putting up with these ugly shootings. You have other things on your mind, like your war on Iraq, or paying a little extra for petrol.
So why should you change your ways, change how you treat people, change your gun laws? Just look at the headlines honey, it’s staring you in the face.
Samantha-
When someone feels, in the course of an argument to resort to calling the other person things like ‘honey’, etc., the argument is pretty much over and the cutesy name-calling is at best, grasping at straws. I’m glad I’ve ruffled you enough to make you resort to that.
I am sorry you are so angry at America for some reason, or why you aren’t able to see the trash in your own back yard before you point out the trash in other’s.
I doubt anyone in America laughs at quotes by President Lincoln, as he, by all accounts was a very nice man. Who, others on here might want to note, suffered from a mental disorder. What we do laugh at is other people supposedly quoting him without any notation. I cannot find any reference to President Lincoln having said anything remotely similar to what you claim in your above post.
I have, however, found this quote, which I think is very fitting for this little topic-
“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn’t make it a leg. ”
That actually is a quote from Lincoln (most people here don’t call him ‘Lincoln’ as you do… we call him either President Lincoln, or Abraham Lincoln. But you knew that, right? Because you are the expert on all things Americana?), and it is not only humourous, it actually applies to what you’ve been trying to do on this thread. Did I mention that it was actually said by President Lincoln?
You did the same thing previously, where you ‘quoted’ someone that you claimed was well-known to all Americans. But you failed to identify who it was. And failed to reply when I told you that obviously they couldn’t be that well-known, since I’ve never heard it before. And failed to do me the service of identifying whoever had supposedly said the insipid ‘quote’.
I’m glad you live in Australia, where there is no violence, no firearms/guns, where all dogs go to bed with a full belly, and no babies ever die in their sleep. I have nothing against Australia that any other country like China, Japan, Russia, Afghanistan, Africa can’t compete with. Every country, every town all over the world has something they should be ashamed of.
I do, have a problem with people who have an inferiority complex about their country and feel compelled to twist facts in order to set up a made-up concept they have about why another country is so bad, and how they, the genius, figured out songle-handledly how to solve it. And, I’m not fond of people who can’t admit their agendas and how they let those agendas affect their logical thought processes.
And, sadly, you aren’t even special in that regard, because it’s my belief that doing what you are doing now is exactly why we as Americans are now up to our necks in Irag instead of Afghanistan, which is the only country we barely had the right to invade/retaliate against.
It’s called taking your opinion and desired outcome and manipulating the facts in order to support your agenda.
It is sad to see you overlook the trash in your own backyard, your refusal to acknowledge crime/murders/violence/abuse in Australia, and even sadder to see how quickly you dismiss aboriginals as not having much importance over there. I’d like to hear your opinion about what your government did to the aboriginals in order to ‘clean things up’ for the Olympics, because that’s as widely documeted as the crime stats for Australia as well as how horrific crime is against women in the aboriginal communities. You can disclaim it all you want, but there’s countless documentation online, as well as on tv, in newspapers, and in many of the journals I subscribe to, such as the New Yorker, the Atlanta Monthly, the Utne Reader, Harper’s, etc.
I guess next, you’ll tell us that other countries do not eat dogs, cats, turtles, etc., and that none of those countries did just what Australia did… where they cleaned things up until just AFTER the Olympics or a big ‘soccer cup’? And that the Japanese only kill whales for ‘scientific’ purposes? Or that Egypt and Africa and a ton of similar cultures do not actually force female genital mutilation… the girls CHOOSE it all by themselves, right?
Every country continues to have problems with violence, crime, and shitty treatment of their peoples, children, women and animals. That’s why it seems a little psychotic that you are so obsessed with pointing the finger at the USA. And why it’s disturbing that you are so fixated on your preconceived idea that GUNS are the real problem, rather than the fact that non-violent people would have no need for guns or any other weapons of death… no matter what country you are obsessively fixated on.
The saddest thing, really, is that talking heads like you, who are really just concerned with appearing to be an expert on other countries, and can’t seem to be able to refrain from pushing your agenda even when it flies in the face of logic… is not just irritating. It’s a waste of energy that could have been applied towards fixing the real problem. Not one thing you have said could be remotely helpful in curbing violence and preventing abuse and murder. But, you look so smart saying it, right? Wink.
If you want to be anti-American, help yourself. I doubt you’re on the best forum to gain any notoriety for that on this blog, and I doubt you’ll get the response you seem to want here. plenty of other blogs to try to stir the muck up in, y’know?
If you want to be an anti-gun freak, I’m all for it. But please, be logical about it. Be against guns because they have no purpose other than killing. (Well, except for that ‘knocking on my door with a gun to save his knuckles’ thing the admin said.) Find an argument that is logical, instead of claiming that violence is the reason FOR guns instead of the other way around. You dont like guns? Then get rid of violence.
It’s not rocket science, eh? Your twisty logic and elastic factoids are making my brain hurt. And annoying my intellect.
Lets stick to the topic of this blog. There are plenty of anti-USA, anti-gun, anti-lotsofthings blogs to haunt that will no-doubt welcome you with open arms. You can call them ‘honey’ when you attempt to insult them, and they’ll probably love to get into a knockdown with you.
Other than that, lets keep talking about crime, violence, abuse, sentencing, excusism etc., here, where it’s more appropriate.
c
You are mistaken in the “twisting the facts” thing, every fact I have I trust and has not been disputed by anyone that matters. You really would have to travel to a developing country to see any more violence than you see in America.
“they seem to refer and quote things they think are historical to America, but I never understand what their point is”
If that is what you are talking about, then perhaps your unwillingness to understand the point is the reason you can never understand what the point is.
And you have missed the mark with your perception of my anti American sentiments. I watch American TV, I’ve done the Thanksgiving thing, read about your presidents. It’s all very interesting, although the short history compared to some other countries can make for short reading.
In any case, I do not hate America or the American way of life. I only hate how you hurt each other and how incredibly ignorant you are of what you are doing to your own country. I’m not anti anything, although I am fairly opposed to a lot of injustices in the world.
But in Americas case I am not even opposed so much about the injustices Americans do while overseas. The people your soldiers torture and civilians you kill. The world knows about them and the world is pretty angry. But the things that happen in your own country the world does not/cannot seem to have a say on. Like the number one point here. Hawkins kills, America gets angry and nothing changes. Anger and not change is all there seems to be, this very article on this very web site reinforces that. This site literally damns him to hell and that’s about it. It doesn’t ask the hard questions, like why did it happen, what can we do to stop it from happening again. It doesn’t even attempt to understand Hawkins. It just spits on him, “gets a little angry” and then moves on, waiting for the next person to damn to hell.
What did we do to make Hawkins into what he was? What can we do to make sure people like Hawkins get a gun? What can we change to make the current and future generation not feel like Hawkins did? What can we learn from all of this?
And as for why I am pointing the finger at America when South Africa is just as rough? Because the United States isn’t a developing country. Your government isn’t dictated, it is a democracy. America is, or should be, the world leaders in all things. You should be taking responsibility for your own guns, your own pollution, you should have your high crime under control because you have the resources and power to do it. You shouldn’t be murdered over a dvd player (whether you murder someone to steal it, or someone murders you because they saw you steal a $59.99 dvd player from their neighbors).
You cannot choose the country Hawkins was born in or the way the country brought him up. But you can control the country Hawkins lived in, you can choose how the next generation of disgruntled mass murders will see the world, how the country and the people who live in it will make him feel.
It is common sense. If you have a gun in the house, someone will probably fire it one day simply because it is there (and statistically there is a good chance you will be firing at a friend/family member, or that they will be firing at you). If you tease your own children and make them feel like outcasts then your own children will grow up angry.
If your house is a broken home, then you need to clean it up before you hurt your children or they hurt you. The same applies if your country is a broken country. Australia does have problems too, not anywhere near as bad as Americas, but we do have problems. I guess it is too bad that this web page isn’t about Australia. It is about Hawkins, and by extension it is about why he did it, his weapon of choice and the many other shootings which the rest of the world is undeniably familiar with associating with your country. You have to understand, these things really don’t happen in Britain or Australia, our news programs are filled with what you would call “business news” and just general stories of interest. But when the big shooting sprees happen in America, the world does know about it. It is mentioned on our news programs, in the world section of our newspapers. We DO hear about it, we do see the faces of the killers and the victims. It turns into our business because the world isn’t that small that your countries problems do not affect us.
The Tale Of Robert Hawkins The Sad Wanker
by Dr. Cotal Utter Tunt PHD ACE
Rob ‘Failtard’ Hawkins sucked. Hard. I mean, he sucked at everything. Even failure was a challenge. Fortunately, Rob acknowledged that he was in fact a piece of shit and realised he was nothing but an undeniable burden on the world around him. Regarded as a spineless, soulless creepy fuck by all those around him, including his own parents, Rob made the smartest move and decided to self terminate.
Unfortunately, the worthless piece of distended rectum figured suicide was not enough – the world owed him something and it was going to pay.
He headed for the mall and senselessly murdered a bunch of innocent folk doing a spot of pre-xmas shopping and injured many others (we’re not talking grazes & bruises, we’re talking “living with bullets embedded in your body” agonising kind of injuries).
Then Rob pwned himself like the cowardly piece of weasel shit he is.
Many families are now experiencing their first Christmas without beloved family members.
Idolise, defend or worship this person… and I think you’re an idiot. No argument can or will convince me otherwise, but only convince me of your utter, utter ignorance. Simple as that.
You may think that Roberts choice was “Fortunate”. And who’s idolizing, worshiping or entirely defending him? I haven’t heard anyone do any of those things here.
You see it is you that is truly ignorant, as you see his actions as “fortunate” whereas I see his actions as “unfortunate” and I would rather have seen him not kill himself or anyone else, but to grow up into a stable tax paying human. How would you like your brother, sister or old school friend killing themselves? Would you be happy that your brother thought he was “in fact a piece of shit” and decided he was “an undeniable burden on the world”? You would have to be one cold hearted jerk to really think that. Your ultimate hypothetical outcome is him burning in hell. My ultimate hypothetical outcome is him not killing anyone at all (including himself), but growing up into a productive happy person.
I’m glad you watch ‘American TV’.
Yes, we all live and act exactly like the people on ‘Desperate Housewives’.
And all Italian people live just like on the show ‘The Sopranos’.
And all soccer moms sell weed for a living, like on ‘Weeds’. And, everyone in California has had plastic surgery or is a transgendered person like on ‘Nip/Tuck’. Or is a polygamist like on ‘Big Love’.
And those are just some of the few tv shows I can barely stomach.
I cannot imagine the intelligence of any person from another country that thinks they KNOW anything about Americans by watching television shows or by reading selective internet slanted pseudo-websites that clearly have no clue what the average American is like at all.
When I watch the BBC show ‘Coupling’, I’m smart enough to know that just because it’s a British show, not all British people sleep with all their friends.
No point in continuing any dialogue with someone who so clearly has an ‘anti-anything’ bias that they clearly have no intention of reality getting in the way of.
I have no problem with people who are not keen on the USA, but people who dislike an entire country, no matter what country it is, based on stereotypes, pop culture and pure misinformation aren’t the brightest bulbs in the box. An exercise in futility, even trying to communicate with people who love their biases.
c
It is sad that a cursory Google search brings up many links that appear to prove that some Australians seem fixated on the fact that they supposedly have a lower crime rate than the USA, even while those same sites admit that Australians have higher crime rates than most other European countries.
Is it that big of an accomplishment that one country’s supposed crime rate is self-reportedly lower than ONE other country, if it is in fact self-reportedly higher than many others? Those same reports claim that although Australia may have stricter gun laws, they admit that the majority of all gun ownership is illegal, and those ownership rates are upwards of 5% of the population. How successful is a gun control program if it doesn’t actually reduce the number of guns… it just increases the number of illegally owned guns?
It might have some bearing on the situation to know that as of 2007, Australia’s population is 20,434,176 while America’s population is 301,139,947. Think that might have something to do with things? The town I live in has a much lower population than Los Angeles, and not surprisingly, we have a much lower crime rate. Common sense.
I have known Australian people, and my best friend’s daughter has moved there and has a fiancee there. He visited them this summer. He was not bowled over with Australia’s communication and transportation systems, among many things. Still, he has no negative ideas about Australia, and neither do I.
I mean, ‘did I’. Reading uninformed comments from people with some weird hidden agenda against the US, who refuses to acknowledge their own country’s shortcomings never tends to impress me or make me think highly of the country they are so arrogant about and so evidently biased towards, for whatever bizarre reason.
I happen to like living in the US. And in California in particular. Where I live, the weather is great (which is good because I have fibromyalgia and Epstein Barr), we have no earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanos, hurricanes, floods, shark attack, and so on and so on. I can say almost anything I want about my country or politics without fear of retribution. As a woman, even though there is still sexism here, I do not have to cover my whole body, I can have a job, and I won’t be killed if I embarrass my family… and I can marry anyone I want. I do not need to put down anyone living elsewhere in the country, or people in other countries in order to appreciate the good things about where I live.
Therefore, I am very suspicious of other people who have to denigrate other countries, and deny their shortcomings in order to be happy living where they are.
If you are on a crusade, and you hate crime, there are many other countries that could use your help and efforts USA. Countries with higher crime/war crime rates, and higher child abuse/murder rates. Instead of pissing about the US, why not spend your efforts lowering other country’s crime rates to the deplorably high US rates… since that would do more good.
As a poster on this blog, you would have to be blind to not be aware of the fact that 90 something % of the US people on here are actively working to reduce crime…. which is why we frequent blogs like this.
It is difficult to alleviate any crime stats if you are just using it to push your personal anti-gun agenda. And, you seemingly cannot even recognize other people who hate guns, and want not just gun control, but gun abolition, like myself, because you are too busy scapegoating.
c
Cotal Tunt-
I have been appreciating your comments.
I am going to guess that you are not from Australia.
c
Thanks Glorybug, actually I am an Australian. It’s just that I’m a cold hearted son of a bitch. Samantha pegged me pretty well.
Unfortunately Sam understands what she’s talking about as much as an irishman understands sobriety, but hey, points for trying Samela.
A) No, I don’t particularly want my family members to commit suicide. But yours should.
B) If a loved one did decide to self terminate, I’d MUCH rather that than see them kill innocent people.
C) Damn right I see Hawkins death as fortunate. Fact is, the world is simply better off without certain people. Rosie O’ Donnell is a perfect example of this.
‘So many people playing the game of life
Without understanding the rules.
They cannot win
And they are confusing the other players”
- Nan Witcomb
So remember, when you get shot by some insane failure at life, you can die secure in your knowledge that what the gunman REALLY wanted was to be a happy, productive, tax-paying member of society. Right?
Oh by the way, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
Hey everybody, I’ve watched “Japanese TV”, did the Pokemon thing, and read about WW2, and can safely say that all Japanese are vicious people who openly contribute to animal fighting, eat raw fish like savages, and spread cruelty and torture as both a means of expanding their empire AND a form of everyday entertainment. I know this because of my research.
Disagree with me, and I will assume you are too retarded to understand the unquestionable logic presented above.
Don’t respond at all, and I will assume the Japanese killed you.
Cotal Tunt,
I think I love you.
When I said I watched American TV, I rather meant that I enjoy American branded exports, not that I get my history lessons from “Desperate Housewives” and learn about Italian Americans from “The Sopranos”. If you don’t like the creative minds of American film and TV creators then that’s up to you, but like I said I enjoy the creative minds of Americans for the most part.
Joe, you are right. Japanese culture does have a lot of violence in it, they were naughty in Double-You Double-You Two and Pokemon does brainwash people into thinking that making animals fight is acceptable. So what could possibly explain America having a %30000 increase in gun violence/murders over Japan? It couldn’t possibly be tight gun control in Japan versus the liberal “gun rights” in America could it?
Nah, that would be too obvious. It must have something to do with Pokemon and the world wars.
You shouldn’t assume the Japanese would kill me, statistically I have less chance of being killed by a Japanese person than an American =P
“Living in the USA is allready hell for a lot of people. So from one hell to the other… USA: From the land of milk and honey it became the land of nothing. Glad I live in Europe.”
Marieke,
I guess that’s why people are so keen to be here that some leave their families and everything familiar to them and enter our country illegaly just to live in the US? Trust me on this, if one feels as though this is a terrible environment in which to live, one may leave at any time. We do not force anyone to live here and assimilate to our culture. As someone who admittedly doesn’t live here, your opinion of the living conditions in this country is less than reliable. And, for the record, I don’t think that heinous living conditions in this country are what drove this kid to flip out. Blame his parents or too much processed food or even the kids in his jr. high class who probably gave him a hard time, but I’ll guarantee that this kid lived better than 85% of the world’s population. He had food, shelter, and health all for which most people would be grateful. I think it’s a bit of a stretch to blame the entire country or our collective lifestyle for this kid’s apparent lack of conscience.
Samantha-
Your stretchy logic and ‘one-issue’ determination are quite impressive. Square peg, round hole… beating a dead horse… and all that.
I am confused by your desperation at pinning ALL American Violence on the existence of guns.
Read this blog more, and watch American import entertainment less, and it should be quite obvious that if guns were the whole problem, there wouldn’t be a bunch of dead people being discussed here who were stabbed, strangled, beaten, burned, etc. And the fact that criminals do not receive appropriately harsh sentences, as well as proof on here that the family and friends these POS came from and surrounded themselves with do not think it’s a bad thing to abuse/rape/kill people. The gangstas, white-trashers and overly religious people think a slap on the hand, a big dose of forgivingness and a short talk with a therapist is an effective way of solving the problem of violence. And they are just as misguided as people who focus on the tools of the trade rather that the cause of the actions, such as yourself.
I am admittedly anti-gun. They serve no postive purpose, unless you consider killing positive. But, the best way to get people to dig their heels in and demand the constitutional right we have as Americans to own guns, is to be faced with an obsessive anti-gun raver who won’t look at the big picture because it doesn’t fit their agenda. I hate guns, yet reading what you write even makes me start feeling defensive about my constitutional rights. Not a helpful approach.
You said- You shouldn’t assume the Japanese would kill me, statistically I have less chance of being killed by a Japanese person than an American =P’
And the relevance of this on a blog about nasty criminals (rather than being an anti-gun only blog) is what? About as relevant as me saying… no, but your chances of having an obsession about little girls, schoolgirls, torture, octopusii, bukkake, etc., are much higher in Japan. Which isn’t relevant, either. Assuming all Japanese people are involved in that, or that it’s the reason for all Japanese sex crimes would be both bigoted and stupid.
____________
Joe and Cotal Tunt-
Please procreate. I’d like to babysit your children.
c
The relevance about nasty criminals on a blog about that go to hell should be smack-in-the-face obvious, even to you Bug.
And I never based my opinion of Americas violent culture solely on American entertainment and I never based the fact on America being a more dangerous and violent country on entertainment neither. It is in fact obvious everywhere. Statistics are the most obvious and fool-proof way to confirm the state of America compared to other 1st world countries. But other things demonstrate Americas violence just as much. I saw three episode from three different networks of American news program broadcast two nights after Xmas. It was full of domestic massacres, murders, violence and sports predictions. Our news programs on that some night had reports on a kitten stuck in the crawl space of a wall, a woman who received some burns after an accident while cleaning her pool and of course the boring sports segments.
Kittens compared to family massacres? I watch a lot of American news shows (it is the only thing on tv when I finish work) and it is always full of murders and massacres. Our news is so boring compared to the American news, all we have to report on is current affairs, politics and kittens.
According to a comparison of tv news programs, you wont be seeing as many Australians in hell. And trust me there are no massacres or murders happening in secret that we aren’t reporting. If anything happens in Australia, the news jumps on it like white on rice. The fact is that we just don’t have the violence to report on like you do, we are forced to watch fire fighters rescue kittens on our national news instead.
Pshhh, if you can’t figure out the relevance of murders and People You Will See In Hell then I am honestly surprised that you could figure out how to work your keyboard all this time.
Um, kay, Samantha. Your 15 minutes are up.
You are boring me shitless. When you can’t bring anything new to the table, maybe you should step away or go on a diet.
I don’t enjoy people who like to throw factoids out there, but never respond to the correction thereof, nor respond to relevant facts various other people bring up.
No hard feelings, it’s just that your agenda doesn’t really fit well with this blog, or the topics discussed on it. As far as I can tell, this is not a blog about American violence solely as a result of not having as strict of supposed gun restrictions as the ‘australians’ have, nor a blog about how guns are the root of all violence, anyway.
I danced around with you a bit, but now I’m going to go back to what I’ve perceived the focus of this blog to be…. and gun control and australian superiority due to gun control is not that focus. Good luck in your future endeavors on other blogs.
c
I never really had an agenda to be honest. I just posted one comment and was sort of surprised to see the replies it got, especially about gun control. Then I was curious to see how many times you people would keep replying to defend your guns and reject any responsibility or think about the reason these things happen in the first place. You refused to think about even for one second how the massacre could have been avoided, you refused to even consider that perhaps your next to zero gun control could have contributed to the regular massacres.
You would all get angry when someone questioned what could have caused it to begin with, you all posted long angry rants about why America was sweet as sugar and how these things only happen because evil people do them.
Not once did anyone else think that the Hawkins massacre could or should have been stopped. Not once did anyone else think about how they could help a friend in the future if they looked depressed or alienated.
Not once.
Instead there is a massive page full of ignorance and stupidity. None of you even know what you are angry about; how could you be when you see these incidents as two dimensional as possible?
15 minutes? No one reads the comments section of this blog so 15 minutes of what? I did get every answer I wanted from you, but that was hardly a surprise when they were exactly the kind of answers I expected to receive.
Those answers, all of the ignorant, shallow and two dimensional posts, is why these massacres will keep happening. I know I can’t do anything about it. I could be become the highest level diplomat of my country, I could be the elected leader of my country and I still wouldn’t be able to do a thing to help you. Only you can help your own country, only you can stop it. But shockingly the problem is that only you are stupid enough to think for a second, even on an anonymous blog, about why your massacres happen and how you can stop them.
Honey, your 15 minutes are over. The world is not so much shocked by your countries violence as we are dumbfounded by your ignorance.
Ah, there you go with the condescending ‘honey’ again…..
You need to reread my posts, if you even bothered to read them in the first place. Since you called me ‘honey’, Im guessing it is my remarks that have your panties in a bunch.
‘reject any responsibility or think about the reason these things happen in the first place’…
Which is exactly what I take issue with in your ill-informed rants- that you keep trying to blame all violence (well, only US violence, but that’s another quibble) on GUNS, GUNS, GUNS. Guns do not cause violence. They do not make people think bad thoughts. They do not order people to kill. Lack of guns does not prevent violence. You are not being responsible for refusing to even LOOK at what the root of the problem is.
Your anti-gun tirades are tiring, simply because you do not even bother to read the actual responses people have written to you. I have repeatedly stated how anti-gun I am, how, unlike other weapons, guns have no other purpose other than to kill…. yet you repeatedly keep writing about how ‘we’ are only interested in defending ‘our guns’. I do not have guns. I do not have friends or family that have guns, because I do not like guns. So dump your preconceived stereotypes about ALL Americans, because we don’t all like guns.
Reread your own posts. You most certainly do have an agenda, which is cool, it’s just being ranted about on a blog where it’s not on topic.
And you need to read up on gun control in the US, since you ignorantly think it tops out at zero percent.
‘You would all get angry when someone questioned what could have caused it to begin with,’
(No, I was annoyed that you INSISTED that gun control alone solves the problem of violence)
‘you all posted long angry rants about why America was sweet as sugar and how these things only happen because evil people do them.’
(No, not one person has claimed that the US is sweet as sugar. You are confusing us with yourself, who posited your country as being almost perfect. And, yes, you finally have gotten one thing right. Except for accidental shootings by children playing with guns -which is just one reason I hate guns- It is a fact that these things really only DO happen because evil people do them. And if they did not have guns, they’d find some other weapon.)
‘Not once did anyone else think that the Hawkins massacre could or should have been stopped. Not once did anyone else think about how they could help a friend in the future if they looked depressed or alienated.’
(Lots of people have expressed that they think the Hawkins murders both could have and should have been stopped. They just didn’t agree with you that lack of access to guns would have accomplished that. They wisely opined their beliefs, but you’ve ignored them because all you want to talk about is guns. Not many of them/us have the simplistic belief that you appear to, that no guns plus a ‘pep-talk’ when someone looks depressed or alienated will affect murder rates. Giving my little brother pep talks when he was depressed did not stop him from killing himself, which, btw, was achieved with a clothesline and a light fixture… not a gun.)
‘Not once.’
(Not true.)
’15 minutes? No one reads the comments section of this blog so 15 minutes of what?
(You misinterpreted. I speed read, so I actually can read much more than this thread in much less than 15 minutes. But what I was referring to was your ’15 minutes of Fame’ rabble-rousing on this blog. Considering your claim to know everything American, I’m surprised you haven’t heard the reference before, as it’s quite common.)
‘I did get every answer I wanted from you, but that was hardly a surprise when they were exactly the kind of answers I expected to receive.’
(Usually when you read only what you want to read, and hear only what you want to hear, there’s a good chance it will appear that people have said what you wanted/expected them to say- even if they didn’t.)
It may surprise you to know that nobody here has actually asked you to ‘help’ solve ‘our problems’. Which is a good thing, because your simplistic and ‘one-note’ idea wouldn’t solve anything, since it does not address the root of violence at all. Perhaps this is why you are not presently in charge of your own country, much less anyone else’s.
Talk about unbridled arrogance.
Luckily, I’m intelligent enough to realize that you do not represent your entire country with your misguided opinions, proof of which is the other Aussies on this blog who do not back you up.
I have, as a fellow gun-hater, answered your questions, pointed out your inaccuracies, provided you with unbiased links that contradict the un-facts you keep spouting, but you have not bothered to even check them out. I am sorry that you are consumed with anti-American bias, and at your frustration that everyone does not appear eager to be ‘just like you’.
Since it seems you have no interest in facts, and I generally tend to not like beating my head against a wall, especially about something that amuses me, rather than infuriates me, there’s just no point in any further comments from me on this subject. Rant on!
I’ll get back to the real reason I am on this blog and other crime websites…. which is because I am concerned about the cause of violence, the propensity of perps to claim mental illness to excuse their violence, the evilness of some people, and the woefully lax approach in sentencing.
c
Oh I have interest in facts. You don’t think that guns contribute to these kind of incidents?
“Guns do not cause violence. They do not make people think bad thoughts. They do not order people to kill. Lack of guns does not prevent violence.”
Nuclear weapons do not kill. Bombs do not tell people to kill. Guns do not literally talk to people and tell them to kill. You are stating the obvious darling, you do know that don’t you? Nuclear weapons may not kill, but we pray to god that no other country gets them because we know that they cannot be trusted. Bombs do not hurt people, they are just a primitive compound, a tool that everyone should have the right to own. Guns do not kill, they do not let people do evil acts of violence. But do you seriously think that Hawkins would have killed 8 people if he didn’t have any guns? Would four young men have been able to kill 52 people in London without bombs? Would the six year old really have been able to kill another six year old without a gun?
By your logic we may as well post out hypodermics and heroin to everyone, because heroin doesn’t make people use heroin, only people can use heroin.
No one may have asked me to help with your problems, I am offering it for free. Like I said before (but I will repeat it for you again darling) we can’t help you with your problems. We just can’t, it’s impossible. But we hear about your problems, we know. It isn’t a dirty little secret, the world really does know. And are we such monsters that we aren’t affected by these things? No. Only you can help yourselves.
Oh and are you so easy to offend that all your posts here (and probably elsewhere too) are to contradict other people and tell them they are wrong about everything? You have written seven thousand words on this page alone. And your attitude isn’t unique to me, you spent a lot of time taking jabs at every other person here too before you noticed me.
Is that part of your “concerned about the cause of violence”? Putting down everyone else’s ideas and thoughts, or do you only do that for yourself? If you don’t put down other people’s ideas then people wont think your worth anything?
And you are very much dedicated to attacking other people (readers, use the “find” feature on “glorybug” and you we see what I am talking about, tackling everybodies ideas about anything, hoo boy!). A seven thousand word rant. That’s what you are. And I don’t care if I’m ranting or not, so you can call my writings a rant all you want. But I know you don’t like the ideas of your thoughts being rants. And flicking through your posts on this page alone that is all you have been, one long mindless rant. I see no evidence of any of your claimed concerns. I just see your working that mouth of yours seven thousand times on whoever you can contradict.
Samantha, baby, why you gotta be such a cunt? Seriously sweety, cut it the fuck out. You made your point, “America takes honor students and abuses them until they kill, and that makes it out own fault.”. We get it, honey. But honestly sweet cheeks, you’re just repeating the same bullshit over and over. I’m glad in Australia you can watch kitty cats on the news, but you said it yourself cutie, America is bigger and more important than Australia. More bad shits going to happen here, but that’s a given, we’re bigger than you with more people, and some of those people are “naughty”, like the Japanese were all them years ago. So calm down, sugar tits. You go watch the cute little kitties. We’re gonna go run the fucking world, kay?
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
Sarcasm? What are you talking about honey? There’s no sarcasm in there at all, baby doll. You just said America runs the world, and you said all Australian news is kitties and sports.
Damn sweety, sounds like you just have this constant need to argue, even with people who agree with you.
Darling, pet, Joey Pooh, I am happy that people agree with me and I am happy that people disagree with me too. Sugar Pie, Sweetie Tums, Joey Blowie I am only irate that Glorybug disagrees for the wrong reasons. Putting others down, attacking other people just so you can contradict them seems a bit like a narcissistic personality if you ask me. Glorybug makes her first post talking about herself and then all posts after attacking other people, starting with Brandon.
So Pet, I said Love, I said Pet, if you yourself could only deduce those sarcastic remarks based on my parallels of American and Australian media related to the days level of crime, then it is no wonder sarcasm is all you can think of. I am starting to think reverse psychology would work, perhaps if I say that American culture couldn’t possibly be affecting young peoples personalities, or if I say that guns are just tools and just because people do bad things with them doesn’t mean they should get a bad name, maybe you will jump to the offensive and refute all the reverse arguments.
I could probably argue that crack cocaine doesn’t hurt people (only people can hurt people, cocaine is just a tool) or heroin having an effect on society and you’d jump right back with “Hard drugs destroy families and destroy lives, how dare you say that”.
One of the easiest things to accept after the latest gun massacre is that it couldn’t have happened without a gun (Just look at the name, GUN massacre, SHOOTING spree; you need a gun to do it). Murder is one of the worst crimes someone can do, mass murder is many times worse. The sin of murder is why these people would go to hell if hell existed. But without guns for their gun massacres no one would die and no one would think they would need to go to hell.
So tell me, in rational terms, why is it so hard to accept that guns and gun culture is largely at fault for gun massacres? Don’t tell me it isn’t the guns fault, don’t tell me that guns don’t kill people, about right to bear arms or the right to arm bears. That isn’t what I asked. I’m just asking how are guns not at any fault, when they are being used in shooting sprees? Why is it that without guns the sprees couldn’t happen, yet guns are not responsible? And don’t give me any rubbish about knives and cars, when was the last time you heard about a kid instigating a massive stabbing spree killing a dozen people or a teen mowing down 8 people with the intent of just killing them?
Or does it just piss you off to think that if Robert couldn’t find a gun that you would never have heard of him and you never would be able to see him in hell for what he wanted to do, but couldn’t do for a lack of means?
Joe-
Once again, you’ve managed to say more than I ever can with my lengthy posts.
I’m jealous of you, dammit!
And, you are so much more fun to read that the brain-dead sort who write such drivel as-
‘Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.’
Um, no, sarcasm is actually the bluntest, most creative, most clever, most intelligent, and most amusing form of wit that there is.
The key is to only barely push the boundaries. Otherwise, it just serves to confuse the lower life forms who can’t read the nuances of sarcasm.
The kind of people who do not understand sarcasm or irony at all, and who, when frustrated, resort to calling people things like ‘honey’. The kind of people who wouldn’t recognize wry humour if it jumped up and bit them on their dry, clenched up little asses. The sort who don’t seem to get it when others are tired of their one-note ranting and are bored with their bizarre scapegoating.
You, on the other hand, seem to have quite a stash of sarcasm, wit. irony and humour to last us quite a long time here. Looking forward to hearing from more of the latter, and less of the former.
Back to the topic at hand, which surprisingly enough isn’t reall ‘gun control’.
I admit I’m a bit biased. I hate guns and drugs. My little brother suffered from depression for many years before he got involved with meth. Of all the great things about living in the valley, being on the high list of meth producers/users is not one of them. The thing is, during all the years he suffered from depression, he was still the beautiful, funny guy I knew and loved. When he killed himself, he was still that guy. My point being, that my experience with him and other drug users is that drugs do not CHANGE a person. They just exaggerate, amplify who you are already. If anything, they being out the worst that anyone could possibly have. My brother was a good person. He was kind and funny, never stole or physically abused anyone. Even though mental disorders and meth brought out his worst traits, he only killed himself, nobody else. Because that was not the kind of person he was deep inside. Although he had access to guns, he did not use them on himself or anyone else.
The very clear root to his problems, and many of mine, as well, is that we share the same abusive, neglectful b-mother. I was lucky enough, after being hot-potatoed between foster parents, orphanages and the abusive b-mother, to finally be free to be adopted out at age 6. My little brother was not so lucky.
He is now dead, and I am not. You would have to be an idiot not to see that the root of our problems was sharing an abusive, neglectful parent, and that different combinations of circumstances as well as personal traits is the reason he is dead and I am not.
I, like many people here, are here because we were physically, mentally and sexually abused as children, and these forums are a good way to let off steam about our histories. My abusive ‘homes’ did not have any guns in them, but my little brother’s did.
It makes me angry when ill-informed people insist that the reason for all this madness is just not harder gun control, or ‘mental illness’, or this or that…. because the reason my brother is dead is because he had an abusive mother and a dysfunctional family system. Not because of guns or knives or bricks.
Because I was removed into a lesser abusive situation, I was able to develop the kind of mental processes that allowed me to deal with teasing, bullying and stress. My little brother was not as lucky.
I do think about her often. I hope that every second of her life is miserable thinking of what she did to us, and how she’s responsible for my brother being dead. I have never allowed her to even see pictures of my children, and have had no contact whatsoever since I had my boys. ‘ve told them that she does not deserve to be a grandmother. I think of her, and always hope that because I have not heard from her, she is dead. But I know I’m not that lucky. PYSIH? Absolutely!
c
Oh, and Joe… loved your liberal sprinkling of affectionate terms in your recent comment.
Little boots, bootsie, poppy, sweetpotatopie, hunnybunny, sugar, darling, babydoll, punkin, huggybug, mister man, weasel, cupcake, sweetiepie, G man, sweetheart, baby, zizzerzazzerzuz….
These are some of the things I call my boys. Hopefully I’ll be able to call them that a long time before teenagerdom makes them get embarrasse by it.
I would never use any of those terms to address people that I do not like, or disagree with. And I would never waste them on a troll.
It sounds like POS actually had a dad that cared about him. That did see him being depressed and alienated. And he did try to do something about it, even tried to find a legal solution. Our court system let this father down when he actively was begging for help for his son.
I feel very sorry for his dad.
c
“The sort who don’t seem to get it when others are tired of their one-note ranting and are bored with their bizarre scapegoating.”
You say you are bored, yet you keep on keeping on coming back for more. Like I said, you enjoy it. I’ve read your posts and you enjoy “correcting” other people, you enjoy talking about yourself, challenging and arguing for the sake of arguing instead of offering productive input.
“I, like many people here, are here because we were physically, mentally and sexually abused as children, and these forums are a good way to let off steam about our histories.”
But on December 6 = “I just don’t remember as a teen, people doing violent crime for seemingly kicks like they do today.”
You don’t remember people doing violent crime for their own pleasure, yet you were physically abused as a child?
Again on December 6 = “Yes, school bullying is wrong and shoudl be stopped, but it is no excuse for killing people.. otherwise I would have had good reason to mow down many people, and I somehow managed not to.”
I don’t think anyone was trying to say that being bullied is an excuse to kill people. We were saying that being bullied could be the reason they did it. If they weren’t bullied, if they grew up in a support happier life, they probably wouldn’t have killed. Did you read that as saying “he had every right to kill” just because you were looking to put someone in their place? Maybe you should have read it as “If we didn’t bully and exclude, there could be less massacres”. Not everything is a fight Glorybug, not everything everyone says is secretly a code that is against you. If someone says that bullying, a borked system or guns could have contributed to the massacres we weren’t asking YOU to challenge or correct us. We were trying to understand why it happened and how it could be prevented. That is something you have done little of so far.
And sacrasm is a low form of humor because it is mindless and requires little thought. Like how easy would it be for someone to mention your abusive past, your acting like a little victim because of it and surmising that the reason you argue with people all the time is because you feel you always need to be right. You need to correct and argue because you feel you need to be in control and your desire for control overrides all other rational thought in your life, makes you disagreeable with people, makes it impossible to compliment someone else unless that compliment is used to attack someone else at the same time.
You see if I made those observations using sarcasm that WOULD have been low.
But you argue for the sake of arguing, you talk about yourself when there is no one else to argue with or when you are put on the spot, and rather than show the “concern” you claim to feel for crime, you generally do just troll around, getting pissy with people (yes, even people other than myself).
My only concern when I posted here was sympathizing with the perpetrator, because his life would have been so different if he got the help he needed, the lives of the 8 in the mall would have been so different, everything would have been different if only something different happened in the 19 years leading up to the event. That something different is all I wanted to see and all I wanted to share. It is hard to sympathize with the person that does this kind of monstrous thing, but then again it is also easy when you think that nine people would still be alive today if something different happened. Certainly peace and understanding is easier than just damning him to hell. How can anger solve anything when it was anger that made Hawkins do this to begin with?
I don’t see why you can’t bring yourself to see how things could have been different, to sympathize with what brought Hawkins to do this. It shouldn’t be that much of a stretch, you don’t seem to have any problems telling everyone about and sympathizing with your own past.
“to sympathize with what brought Hawkins to do this.”
Right there bitch, that’s everyones problem with you. This has nothing to do with gun laws, no matter how much you want it to be. You don’t understand why people can’t sympathize with someone who went out and killed 8 people.
Wanna know why we can’t “sympathize with what brought Hawkins to do this?” I’ll tell ya bitch, the motherfucker killed 8 people. Killing 1 person is enough to void any sympathy Hawkins might have deserved. If a guy caught his Mom fucking a black man when he was 6, then decided he would run around killing black people when he turned 30, does he deserve sympathy? Regardless, I’m sure you’d give it to him. How about if one of the people he killed had a worse life than him? They really aren’t victims are they, because they knew enough that blowing peoples brains out wouldn’t help them?
Now baby, I’ll kindly ask you to go fuck yourself. You’ve made quite the douche of yourself, showing up and being appalled at how nobody would show poor sweet Robert any sympathy, and then turn the entire thing into “GUN LAWS GUN LAWS GUN LAWS!!!”, and accuse anyone of telling you “that’s not what your first rambling bullshit post was about, you’re here to blame everyone else for the killings” to be simply to stupid to understand you. Save your “Who’s the REAL victim here?”.
Joe- thank you very much for your comments.
If you don’t mind, I think I’ll just piggback you here. Save me the trouble of responding to a brick wall who already knows all the answers in life, eh?
I would imagine that a website called PYSIH isn’t exactly geared towards inspiring people to feel sorry for POS who abuse, molest and kill people.
I could be wrong. (rolls eyes)
c
“we can’t “sympathize with what brought Hawkins to do this”
And that is why it will happen again, and again, and again again again. It will keep on happening for a long time, we will keep on seeing on the news world over. Why did he do it? Why do people have access to guns? Why don’t people get the help and attention they need (And if you consider someone who is willing and able to kill 8 people not deserving of attention, then I guarantee that if you ever work with one of these kids that you are just as part of the problem as he was. If you enable a murder or fail to stop it if it is possible to identify it then who else can you blame? Oh wait, if it was your job to see these kind of things then of course you would want to deny all responsibility, your job and your ass is riding on the line!)
And of course you completely gloss over the point if you think that my thoughts on understanding, sympathizing and thinking about killers is just about “inspiring people to feel sorry for them”. The obvious solution to any potential problem is Why. Why did they do it? How can you stop it? How can we try and make sure that we do not have 8 dead people and 100 million dollars of legal/lawsuit fees on our hands again? Like I said, it is easy to take the black and white view of just “damning people to hell”, but it is a harder job to understand why they did it and how to stop it. There are so many reasons to understand why people do these things, economic, moralistic, humanitarian and so on. It is in our best interest to know why people do this. Not to glorify them, but to understand how they feel, to sympathize with them, to know why it happened and to stop it from happening again.
I mean shoot, it must be easy to sit there and say “damn it them to hell, damn them to hell” every time someone carries out a gun massacre. But how does that help? “he motherfucker killed 8 people”… how does that help to understand why it happened and how does thinking that help you figure out how you can stop it from happening again? You would have a better chance shouting at the stones on the ground to figure out how, rather than “damning him to hell, damning him to hell” and “Mother fucker killed 8 people”. How the fuck does that help the situation? When a black slave rebeled against his “owners” back in the day, you may as well have said “The nigger killed 8 people, why should we care why he did it?”. And that is the truth. You are much more interested in looking for someone to hate, than you are looking for a way to stop it.
If everyone thought like you, then you would have black slaves serving you drinks right now. Unless you are black yourself, although from your attitude I can tell that you are not black, you would be serving drinks to your white masters. Understanding is the only way we have equal rights now. Understanding is the only way we can stop your ignorance and stop these mindless massacres. You would be completely fucking dim witted to assume that these massacres happened for “no reason”. There is always a reason. And massacres are a regular problem. It’s up to you to work the rest out yourselves…
You guys are all right in aspects and you are all wrong in other aspects. Glorybug, Joe and Cunt, your points have been made and taken into account, HE HAD NO RIGHT TO DO THIS! There is absoulutly no excuse! Guns laws are no the issue here! I live here, my teenaged children and eveyone I know has been affected by this. Although, in diferent ways. Some wish he would have survived, just to ‘hang him high’ Some are glad he is dead without having to waste more tax-payers money prosecuting him. Sam – you have made good points as well. He was hurt and it is human nature to ‘fight back’ when you are being hurt. This was his way of fighting back. I don’t think he had the support that he needed from the people (his parents) that should have given it to him. Dad- sure he tried, as long as it was not an inconvience to him or the ‘bitch’ of a step-mother he was married to. Parents need to put thier children as MORE IMPORTANT than ‘a peice of ass’ DADDY dropped the ball there. Then the comes good ‘ol MOMMY- That drug using sorry excuse for a womb had nothing to do with this child, except for when she could use him as a pawn to get what she needed. The Nebraska courts could not even locate her when he was in the system! NOW, SHE TRYING TO SUE THE ‘STATE’! They didn’t do enough to help him, so she thinks she deserves paid for HER loss! He should have put a bullet in her head!!!I do feel bad for Robert. He needed to feel loved, not like the constant ‘burden’. We raise our children to be mamby-pamby self indulgent people by being overly protective- this attribute does not only exist in the USA, it pretty much ‘western society’ so there are going to be issues when everyone is on a pedistol. Have you evey played ‘king of the mountain’ as kids? Can EVEYONE be on top all the time? No, somebody will have to be knocked off from time-to-time and yes knees will get scraped and noses will bleed. It’s a part of life. A harsh one, but a reality. Good luck!
Andrew Vachss writes in ANOTHER CHANCE TO GET IT RIGHT ……”The baby alligator comes out of the egg a perfectly formed predator. It will not grow, it will only get larger, do you see? It learns nothing. From the moment of its birth, it fights to survive. If it succeeds, if it reaches its full size, it hunts. At birth, it is 9 inches long. In adulthood, perhaps 9 feet. The difference can be measured. As a predator, it increases in competence, in skill. But, no matter what its fate, it will always be what it was born to be.”
“I understand.”
“Do you? Your work is with children. To work with children, you must know the child. The baby elephant cannot survive on its own. It need nurturing, it need protection. Without love, it dies. Depending on how it was raised, the baby elephant grows to be a work animal, a circus performer, a peaceful beast content to live in harmony. But some elephants grow up to be rogues, dangerous to man. Depending on how they are raised —that is the key. You see the difference now?”
This speaks so clearly to me. How about anyone else? Was Robert an Alligator or elephant? I think he was an elephant that did not recieve nurture.
Sam-
“Unless you are black yourself, although from your attitude I can tell that you are not black, you would be serving drinks to your white masters. ”
Oh, really. So why don’t you let eveybody know what race you think we’all are? You claim it’s based in attitude, I think it more likely you’re jumping to conclusions because most of us can write readable posts. It might interest you to know that there are plenty of black people, as well as poor white people who are well-spoken, and can write legibly. Oh, and there’s more colours than black/white, and I should know.
I find it interesting that you are still huffing about gun control (and the evils of Americanism) on this thread, where it has no relevance, but you haven’t even bothered to jump on the J Horn thread which would appear to be custom created for your brand of ranting. Obsessiveness about gun control would be absolutely appropriate there.
______________________
NebraskaMom- It appears to me that you have somehow missed the point Andrew was making regarding alligators. Nurturing and loving a baby alligator will not enable them to grow up to be kind, compassionate vegetarians. It’s doubtful that all that parental love would ever result in you being able to throw a saddle on the guy when he grows up, and he’s not going to follow you around like a puppy.
A baby elephant is not a baby alligator. Beating him every day will not result in him chomping you in half with his fiercy teeth. It will, no doubt, result in an angry adult elephant who by sheer size could be capable of harming an asshole person, but it will never turn him into an alligator. That’s the point you’re missing.
A person who is already an alligator is not going to turn into an elephant (though they might be able to pretend to for periods of time), no matter how nurturing and forgiving you are towards them.
Science is uncovering the genes for alcoholic tendencies, cancer susceptibility, addictive personalities….. the variations of xx/xy, xxx/xxy, x/y, etc., that explain the variety of sexual identity…. all of which have little to do with how one is treated, and only minorly affected by nurture/culture. I can’t wait until the criminal gene is identified- but it is being researched as we speak.
c
Even if you had a ban on guns here in the US it would never take the guns out of the criminals hands. Just look at Prohibition or the famous “War On Drugsâ€. Both of which were/are complete failures.
At least with gun control we have some information telling us who has bought a gun and who is responsible for that gun. With the total ban on guns that would be gone and there would be no way of knowing who bought a gun on the black market.
I agree that Gun Control is not perfect but it works better than a total ban on guns ever would. History tells us that…
Wakado-
You are correct. Banning guns here wouldn’t do much unless you were a big, magic giant who could march all over the US and confiscate every type of gun til there were no guns left.
But then you’d still have crime and violent crime. Even if the giant took away everyone’s knifes. Or ligatures.
It might work if the giant cut everyone’s hands off. Hard to be violent or kill people with just your feet.
I am curious what the percentages are of criminals using guns they registered through gun control procedures vs how many crimes they committed using guns that were stolen from abiding citizens who were registered. I could take a guess, YKWIM?
This is one of those topics where there is a clear relationship between where the criminals are getting the guns. And where the knee-jerk reaction is to make it easier to secure even more guns (by relaxing rules for ownership) in order to fight against that…. it’s just laughable.
The war on drugs? I think I just pissed in my pants a little.
Maybe we could win if we’d just force the drugs to strip naked and pile on top of each other wearing dog collars? Make the drugs stand on little boxes for days with hoods on their heads?
Hard to rationalize how there is now a bigger production of Opium than there was before our war on drugs and our war on people who don’t give us great discounts on oil, and all that.
Since the ‘war on drugs’ began, there should be less access to drugs. But if you look it up, since the war began, not only has drug use gone up, the variety of new and old abusable drugs that can be bought has skyrocketed.
Why? As in anything else, follow the money trail.
How about we release all the people in prison for pot offenses, to make room for all the POSs who do violent crime?
How about we take the money that would have been used to house potheads, and use it to fund other more worthwhile causes?
Like more mental treatment for the future Hawkins of America?
c
“It might interest you to know that there are plenty of black people, as well as poor white people who are well-spoken, and can write legibly. Oh, and there’s more colours than black/white, and I should know.”
Oh trust me my impressions of yourself are not that you are well spoken or that you can write legibly. It can be hard to tell on the internet because a lot of people are lazy when they type, but seeing as you are -trying- to appear as an intellectual you give the strong impression that you received no serious higher eduction and that you under performed in your other education. Your use of commas before and after your liberal use of “ands”, poor grammar and common demeanor does not give me the impression of any of the things you claim to be ;)
And I guess with you always being right you would have to have to know many a cultured persons. Why I bet I could name any race on Earth and your best friend would be that race too, which would make you the foremost expert on their people! But in all seriousness I am starting to sympathize with you now Glorybug. It must be very draining having to think that you need to be right all the time and that you need to know everything about everything. It must be a very tough an alienating existence and I do feel for you.
As for magical giants, well gee whiz, I guess everyone will need guns to live forever unless we get a magical fantastical giant :S Because haw haw no other country has ever implemented gun and weapon control successfully. But sarcasm aside, yes there are many countries where gun control has been very successful. The American political system is very different though. Say if a politician wanted to phase in gun control, it would be very hard to do. Guns are multi billion dollar business, there would be very strong lobbying from the gun manufacturers. Those gun makers would probably even go as far as to send politicians “incentives” or campaign contributions to make sure that their own interests are covered and their business is never jeopardized. It is hard to fight a political system that allows that. How is an anti gun group or safety group meant to compete with that? How is a humanitarian organization or a charity meant to compete? They don’t have 300 thousand dollars in “incentives” to give away, they can’t host big bucks parties to impress people the people in power to follow their way of thinking, to support their business.
Gun control “might” be impossible, but it is not impossible because it “doesn’t work”. It does work, there are dozens of examples of it working all over the world. If it doesn’t work for America it will be because the minority in power wont let it work.
And prison does not stop crime, we should all have heard that somewhere in our lives before.
America might be failing the war on drugs, but that is a poor analogy for gun control, because like I said gun control has already happened in the world and it has already worked.
I agree with you on pot though. Decriminalizing pot could generate a lot of money, the taxes the government could make off it would be phenomenal and high taxes would also limit an over supply. The government could also regulate how strong cannabis would be as well as regulating that it is grown in a safe way without the use of harmful chemicals. Pot would be safer to use and could be regulated like alcohol, but most importantly the taxes collected could be used towards something much more useful like health care, gun control or education.
Lordy- can you be more boring, condescending and repetitive? Can you beat that dead horse a bit more?
You’re smarter, you’re more pious, you live in a perfect country, you know all the answers. Ok, I get it.
Now, why don’t you move your anti-gun, anti-American ranting to the Horn page, where people actually are discussing guns and gun control?
I’m sorry you don’t like my writing style. The two books I contributed to, the numerous poetry journals I’ve been published in, the magazine I was published in, and the two newspapers I worked for, one as a writer/illustrator and one as an assistant editor… seemed to like my writing style. And, they were paying me, whereas writing here does not pay. I guess Australia just has better writers, which, based on your criticism of my style of puctuation, you are also better at.
It’s one thing to express your opinions, and many people do here… in various non-proper english form. It’s another to keep claiming superiority over everything from personal opinion, to whatever country you live in, to writing style.
I have no idea what it is you have hoped to accomplish here, but I don’t think it’s working. There are other blogs suited for you to critique punctuation, the superiority of certain countries, etc. This one seems to be dedicated to discussing crime and evil people. And the only thread I’ve seen discussing guns/gun control here is the Horn thread.
It must be tiring, carrying that chip on your shoulder around all day.
c
And- just because I don’t want my comments misunderstood-
Yes, I think pot should be decriminalized. I said nothing about having the government regulate it or charge taxes on it.
I think people should be allowed to grow pot in their own backyards, which no doubt would be illegal if the government got involved with regulating/distributing it. Getting the government involved wouldn’t be much better than having it be illegal now, so the best bet is to reinforce the medical marijuana exemptions, eliminate prosecution for small amounts of possession for personal use, and reduce the numbers of people taking up prison space for pot offenses to make room for hardcore criminals. I’m not fond of people who use drugs recreationally, but there are much worse drugs right now that need law focussed on.
Considering how many states are considering laws criminalizing Salvia right now, the chances of pot ever being legal are only a pipe dream. Pun intended.
Just wanted to clear that up, that I am not for government involvement in regulating and taxing pot.
c
Glorybug- No, I did not ‘miss the point” *”A baby elephant is not a baby alligator. Beating him every day will not result in him chomping you in half with his fiercy teeth. It will, no doubt, result in an angry adult elephant who by sheer size could be capable of harming an asshole person, but it will never turn him into an alligator.”
Robert Hawkins was not an alligator either. Treating him badly every day resulted in an angry adult capable of harming other people. Our children are NOT born preditors! such as an alligator. And why does the person that the angry elephant attacks have to be an asshole? They are made into preditors! That is why Nebraska HHS has implemented IMMEDIATE changes in how they are going to deal with troubled teens now. They did not directly admit to not having the system set up correctly for Robert(amoung others), but I for one am happy to see the change, no matter what brought it on.
And please don’t take this as me excusing his behavior, for I am not meaning to convey that. I just don’t understand why parenting in this society has broken down so much. Why cannot parents be ‘parents’ anymore? It’s frustrating to me.
This article is poorly written. It takes an angering non-neutral view. Feels like nothing but a bash at a child with problems.
admin – in most cultures, a person is considered adult when they hit 18 years of age. Most cultures also consider someone who shoots and kills 8 innocent people to be someone with more than just “problems.” If you’re looking for a happy, friendly neutrally kind style of article, you’re in the wrong place. Perhaps the “People You’ll See In Hell” title isn’t a strong enough indicator of what kind of writing you’ll find here.
Some people confuse me. Ok, so I was picked on in school, had a bad case of acne, worked at menial fast-food jobs, had no money, my family life sucked, no boyfriends, etc. etc. boofreakinghoo. I grew up, got over it and went on with my life. I did NOT go out and shoot up a bunch of people and then kill myself. (obviously) The point is, some people can’t handle shit like that and they do stupid stuff and then try to blame it on their problems growing up. Give me a break. I had a horrible childhood and I’ve been depressed and on anti-depressants and all that. I’m not using it as a cop-out for doing something stupid and nobody should get away with using it as an excuse for doing messed-up things when they grow up. Yes, GROW UP. That’s the point of this whole rambling mess. GROW UP. Geez. Make yourself a better person but don’t take your problems out on innocent people. That’s my opinion. Thank you. I’m all through now. :)
Kim- you did a very good job expressing yourself.
I’ve been to a couple of my high-school reunions, and I found it odd that the cheerleaders/football star-type people hadn’t ended up any more successful than the wallflowers. And, that their perception of high school was that it was stressful for them. They were the popular ‘in’ crowd, yet they also thought people had been mean and critical towards them.
I did find it kind of funny that most of the cheerleader types now all have fake tits. So much for feeling confident and being popular, eh?
Sometimes I think by the time I die I’ll be the only woman my age with no tats, piercings or fake tits. I’ll be unearthed 200 years later as a medical marvel and freak!
c
Thank you, GloryBug. I had to say it because it really bothers me. All these excuses for being treated bad as a child and being bullied in school. WTFE!!! Sure it causes some emotional problems but us adults should be able to handle them and not use them as excuses to do stupid shit.
Samamtha Dixon, so ur telling me that I am to blame for what Robert hawkins did? No. You create yourself. Noone else does. If you seriously think that a whole society is going to shun one person then your a ignorant bitch. Its ur choice to fit in society, not anyone elses. He should of made more of an effort to make things right for him, but he was a coward and decided not to take that challenge. He was a coward then, and he was a fucking coward now, when he shed that last tear and shot himself with eight devistated families in his hands instead of taking the consequences like a man. Society is huge. Not everyone is going to shun you. Instead of themreaching out to you, you have to reach out to them. Thats the only way a person will get noticed. That goes to all the outcasts on this sight that I might see one day on the news. Fuck ya’ll
Are all the POSs starting to look the same? Is it just my opinion that the pic of this perp looks very similar to the bra-wearing baby-raper?
Or do I have my stories wrong? This guy looks at least like one or two other pics of perps posted here.
Lerching- you have a good point. Everyone has the opportunity to become the kind of person they want to be, no matter what their upbringing. It’s called ‘free will’. You may not be able to get rid of your fat ass, love handles or thinning hair, but you certainly are in control of WHO YOU WANT TO BE. Not how rich you are, not how popular you are, not how pretty you are. But ‘who you are’? Yes. And it’s lame to blame who you have CHOSEN to be on other people.
c
Don’t you have anything better to do? I certainly don’t condone any acts of violence, fuck that shit. But why do people feel the need to slander somebody from the safety of the internet, let alone a DEAD person that is not even here anymore to defend themself?
“But why do people feel the need to slander somebody from the safety of the internet, let alone a DEAD person that is not even here anymore to defend themself?”
You heard it people. Stop talking about bad things dead people did.
That include Hitler? Man, History channels going to be pissed…
Godwins ftw.
Wow, this is pretty crazy. I started talking to a kid here on the internet about a month ago. He is 20 years old and from North Carolina. I call him AMIL..Anyway, he has been into drugs since he was pretty young. Amil doesn’t really think of other people. He sits at home and collects a check from the government EVERY month. I am not sure for what but he makes enough to feed himself, put a roof over his head, and buys guns. Oh, and lets not forget about his drug addiction.. Anyway, one day i was talking to him about school..And he suddenly got upset with me and said he wanted to take his rifle into the school and shoot 6 people and then himself. At first he never told me what the problem was..But then later, I discovered what was going on. Amil was being tortured by kids he had gone to school with from two years before. (these kids were still in school..) Things got sooo bad that I had to report him to the internet site that we were speaking on..It was pretty crazy. He didn’t care if he were going to take another life, he only cared that he was going to get back at people and then take himself. Amil said that he was going to be FAMOUS and that is all he ever wants to be! Scary stuff, huh?
Look, if you guys don’t like people sitting here slandering other people, go ahead and get a walking. This is life, my dear. Anywhere you go, you will see people talking bad about someone else! (School, gym, resturaunt, work, everywhere!) This is not much different from that stuff. Seriously, if you don’t like it, go find something you like to do as a person, since you think you HAVE A LIFE.
Ok I am going to clear something up for everyone on of you fuckers here. Most of you know exactly what too place here but you’re too chicken shit to say it. It’s all about hearsay, rumor, opinion, everyone with an axe to grind, public corporation and what is and isn’t “condoned”. The banding together of the citizenry to protect our society from the wackos because they could go of at any minute, so therefore need to be watched very closely. They are worthless, sick in the blood and therefore don’t deserve the same as other, better people. I don’t even need to describe it well, you all know what I’m taking about and I can assure you that I myself know exactly what I’m talking about because I took part in it for years. Some wonder, even ask if this treatment could drive a person to violence and always get the standard reply “They would never be allowed to hurt.” What if they hurt themselves some ask. “That would never be allowed to happen for it would create far too much risk.” Well look what happened? Everyone knew and nobody did a fucking thing. Over and over and over and over again. I dropped out a long time ago, what is it going to take for you people to realize what is really taking place? What do they gain from it? They gain the ability to change law. Mental health standards. Privacy standards. They gain the ability to change society as they see fit. They gain the ability to drive the sick further away from the well, the only people that have a chance in hell of actually changing the things that MAKE a person UNWELL. The mind knows the people pulling strings will never seek to have it done. So I ask you. Is it possible the end goal will ever come? Is all this loss of life and insanity worth it?
Whoah….
RemoteViewer- I have absolutley no clue what you were trying to say in your long, but unintellible post.
Please step away from the guns. For some reason I’m getting the impression you DO have access to guns.
In fact, I recommend a two-step program to deal with whatever it was that you thought you were saying in your post….
1. No guns. Put the guns down.
2. Therapy. Sometimes you have to hop around in order to find a therapist you connect with. It’s worth it.
3. No more drugs. K?
(scary)
c
GloryBug,
You obviously know exactly what I speak of for you first state a claim that claims a total misunderstanding which is then followed up with an insinuation that implies a supposed total comprehension of what my post contains: I am a danger, I have access to guns (???), I should back away from the guns (???) for you obviously fear I am willing to use these supposed guns (???) for reasons you claim yet fail to address (???).
It is called reading comprehension.
I have my opinion, and you have yours.
If you go so far as to insinuate that the opinion posted by myself indicates a bent towards violence and/or ill-will towards a defenseless segment of our society… after all the things I have read that were posted by yourself, anyone on this board should question your rational and outlook that pertains to the theoretical betterment of our society.
I have dealt with your type of person time and time and time again. In every single situation, you first deny, then attempt to convince the others that your opponent resides within the same mindset/class that is the current subject. Overall, you relentlessly project a supposed truth that what your opponent is arguing is nothing but an illusion, to your own fault.
When looked at from the perspective of a sane individual, what you replied really can’t be tied to my original post on any rational level. I never mentioned anything about guns, I absolutely implied NOTHING that would allow a rational person to deduce the supposed fact that I had access to guns or would be willing to use them in any way against anyone I disagreed with, nor did I ever come close to mentioning anything having to do with drugs.
The majority of what you used to reply consists of an unfounded delusion.
Did they let the Unibomber have a computer in jail? This sounds like his manifesto.
Remote – you may actually have something worthwhile to say. Why not just SAY it. It’s not so impressive to use big words if no one can figure out the underlying message.
Glory,
I think RemoteViewer is saying that we as a society are creating these situations based on “hearsay, rumor, opinion, (by) everyone with an axe to grind, public corporation and what is (in our opinion) and isn’t “condoned”.
We ‘push’ the ‘ill’ into into programs that WE think will help US, rather than listening to their needs. Hence..”They (We, as a scociety) gain the ability to drive the sick further away from the well, the only people (the sick/ill people we push)… have a chance in hell of actually changing the things that MAKE a person UNWELL.” We don’t take the time to see what their needs actullay are, we just want to fix them to satify our own standards (instant gradifiacation, much?). Although I do beleive it is true that most people who are in the feild of psycology (sp?) are to some degree mentally ill themselves, that is why they choose that feild of study.
RemoteViewer played the role that we play for many years and ‘dropped out’”I took part in it for years” Due to reasons that were not discussed, but didn’t say he/she wants to harm anyone or did drugs.
I see a post from someone with great compassion with ‘ill’ people and has become so frustrated, with the laws, mental healthcare and society as a whole in regards to dealing with ‘ill’ people, that has givin up on seeing a solution come forth. “The mind (RemoteViewer’s) knows the people pulling strings will never seek to have it done.”
In the last part of the post…”So I ask you. Is it possible the end goal will ever come? Is all this loss of life and insanity worth it?” Remoteviewer is asking….When is enough going to be enough for we as a society-who creates these laws and the mental health system- to ACTUALLY GET IT RIGHT.
Just my opinion of what was being said.
Glory…wtf?!? I didn’t understand a damn word that person typed. hahahhahah. I even read it twice. Both posts. I’m really confused. I tried to understand it by reading yours, but I didn’t get it. Some people just ramble on without making a damn bit of sense, eh? hahahah. Yours are always good though. :)
“In fact, I recommend a two-step program to deal with whatever it was that you thought you were saying in your post….
1. No guns. Put the guns down.
2. Therapy. Sometimes you have to hop around in order to find a therapist you connect with. It’s worth it.
3. No more drugs. K?”
Lol that looks like THREE steps to me.
It’s curious that people suggest he was a victim of society. People that have a problem with society are the ones with the problem, not society. It’s not like the whole world got together every Tuesday night and figured out ways to fuck with Hawkins.
I really don’t care if these losers that can’t conform to society’s rules kill themselves. The world is probably better off without them.
But don’t fuck up my day just because you suck.
admin – You must have missed the “Let’s fuck with Robert Hawkins” meeting. Have you subscribed to our newsletter?
Kim- Thank you. I read the original post, the response post, and the ‘explanation’ post. A couple of times, and yeah, I still did not understand what was being said.
I will say, for remoteviewer, that I appreciate that in your response, you put in line-breaks, as this makes it a bit easier on the eyes to read.
I do actually have sympathy for people who are truly mentally ill (crazy)and are not institutionalized. I do not have sympathy for people who say ‘I like doing bad things, therefore I’m mentally ill’. And then try to use that to get out of punishment.
It infuriates me to no end that in the last 20 years very important facilities and resources for the mentally ill have been ‘cut’ from budgets. As part of a larger program of cuts designed to create ‘tax-cuts’. I’d imagine it would be cheaper to keep a crazy locked up in a ward and getting treatment (even if it has to be for life) than to pay for all the elements of a trial, court system, incarceration, etc. Not to mention the cost to families that lose loved ones to violence by people who should be institutionalized.
I did not mean to imply that the OP said he was GOING to kill anyone, or that he in real life had many guns. My natural reaction to anyone who posts something I cannot read, and who appears to have that level of frustration, is to say ‘step away from the guns’, or ‘drugs’. I did kindly suggest that they get therapy for their frustrations.
x- It’s funny that you caught that. I saw it when I was writing it, but decided not to correct it, because for some reason I thought it was funny. I have a weird sense of humour sometimes.
Here’s two examples-
First, I think its funny when I’m driving and see someone walking a Doxie, to roll the window down and yell ‘WeinerDogs! Yes!’
B) When my cat Muffles has finished giving herself a good bath, I like to rub my hands all over her fur, effectively causing her to feel the need to begin all over again.
And, 3rd, when the cashier asks, ‘Paper or plastic’, I answer, ‘Yes, please’.
I think it’s even funnier when I write something I think is funny, and only a couple of people get it, or know that I wrote it on purpose.
c
hahahah Glory. I saw the 3 steps but I didn’t even say anything. I guess it seemed normal to me. hahah.
wow….. and you think this is normal?
“I did not mean to imply that the OP said he was GOING to kill anyone, or that he in real life had many guns. My natural reaction to anyone who posts something I cannot read, and who appears to have that level of frustration, is to say ’step away from the guns’, or ‘drugs’. I did kindly suggest that they get therapy for their frustrations.”
That would be a pretty irrational assumption. Even better you reacted like a paranoid.
I’ll assume the last part is a joke, if not it shows that those traits run deeper. Obviously then at a more severe level and would essentially help to mark you as a bit of a sadist.
The wiener dog joke shows you’re pretty immature, and you top it all off with a wee dose cognitive dissonance. You’re sure a catch. Republican?
Young person + chemical imbalance/clinical depression + abandonment by frustrated parents + access to guns, facilitated by the adults in his life + mood-altering medication which is known to produce violence and other side effects in a portion of those who take it = NO HELL for this tortured young soul.
you belong in hell right along this poor excuse for a skin bag….go fuck yourself. I only hope some douche like robbie here comes along and shoots you.
Robbie was one of my friends. he had a pretty fucked up life, and we all had some drug problems. He didnt talk a whole lot but was very sarcastic. he wasnt violent. He didnt have anger porblems. He just got out of control. He lost touch with reality. He sat back and watched as his life fell apart….. i miss him. i dont know what he was thinking, but he wanted to matter. Robbie should NOT go to hell. He suffered for 19 years. he SUFFERED. he didnt have shit. anyone wanna bitch me out my email is haley.militarybrat.09@gmail.com.
i miss you robbie….
I won’t even bother with emailing you…you speak of suffering…how about the innocent people this piece of shit MURDERED?? Go fuck yourself….you and robbie the asshole should be in hell
I think that ostracizing and further alienating people who are prone to these behaviors will make mass shootings more likely, not less.
Rolling Stone’s magazine published a great article about him. Rob was as much a victim as the people that he shot that day. He spent his life being rejected over and over again by the people who should’ve stood by him, he was violent because that’s all he was taught while growing up and when he started showing signs of violence instead of realizing their mistake and working to correct it his parents had him committed and put on medication at a very early age. No wonder he was a drug addict and alcoholic!! He was raised to be one. He had no respect for human life because the people that should have taught him how to respect and love abused him and rejected him. Constantly! My heart goes out to him and all the lives he took along his. It also goes to every child that is growing up in the same conditions he did.
We are loosing our sense of family values and that’s why incidents like these are becoming more common.
Blah, blah, blah….Jesus H. CHRIST! Where do folks like you come from? Let me make MY position as clear as I can: Robert Hawkins was a weak, pathetic coward. The way you say Robert grew up, well, I grew up that way too. My dad was the kind of alcoholic that will embarrass himself every chance he gets, especially in front of the few friends I had, so I had zero self-esteem. I was picked on constantly in school, all the way through until I graduated high school. In college I discovered drugs, and for the next 20 years a day didn’t go by with me being wasted on something, until I wound up a common junkie strung out on narcotics. In 1994, I was at my bottom, no where to live, no job, no money, unwelcome even at my mother’s house. I’d just had the 2nd of my 3 heart attacks, and it was obvious to me that no one cared if I lived or died, and neither did I.
And you know what….I never killed anyone. I didn’t decide to grab an assault rifle and kill everyone I saw, just so I could “be famous” and “go out in style”. Not like that pussy Hawkins.
No, I got help. It didn’t take the 1st time – I did several rehabs and countless detoxes. I tried all kind of different med for depression & bipolar to no avail (because if you used as much as me, you’d be fucking depressed too). But I had a desire to be more than I was, because I knew I had something to prove to myself, and to every person who ever wrote me off as a loser. Now I have several years clean and sober. I’m married to the finest woman in CT, My 2 daughter love me to death, and they know I’d die for them. I’m permanently disabled because of a genetic thing with my heart that caused me to have 3 heart attacked by the time I was 36, but I’m no longer pissed off at God about it, and even He and I have an understanding.
That’s how most people deal with a shitty life I think….I see it in the stories of abuse survivors, incest survivors, and junkies like me all the time.
So fuck Robert Hawkins….help was there for him. But he needed to ASK FOR IT. It’s an unfortunate fact that there are people who genuinely enjoy psychological suffering. It’s familiar and comforting to them, so they wallow in their own excrement, whine and cry and hope someone will feel sorry for them and just give them the things they want. They get codependent girlfriends, bleeding heart friends (probably just like you someone), & softhearted bosses to put up with them. But sooner or later even they get fed up. So Robert gets dumped, Robert gets fired, Robert sees he’s alone in the world now. The result is 7 dead and 11 wounded (this time). So do us all a big favor and save your bullshit for some ultra-liberal blog where they all sit around smoking dope dicussing topics ans coming up with stoned out theory’s like the one you just posted. Putz
Max
Rolling Stones and other media forms are a huge part of the REASON these kids choose to go out “in a blaze of glory”.
They plan to kill themself anyway, so the least they can do is get fame and recognition after they are dead. And the media is happy to supply it to sell more magazines or ad space.
So… the next teenage boy who thinks that life is harsh and unfair, who thinks that he would be happier dead, and who has unfulfilled grandeur issues, will no doubt start to amass an arsenol. He may be a “nothing” in life, but in death? The WORLD WILL KNOW HIS NAME!! Mwuahahahahaha!
I will never buy Rolling Stones magazine again. It joins the list of things that glorify the disturbed and disturbing. I will not waste my hard-earned money on sensationalist trash like that.
BTW…if this douche was so righteous…why didn’t he go after the people at McD’s, who fired him, or his parents who only seem to pass him off like something at a flea market. Instead he decided to shoot up a mall filled with people who most likely had nothing to do with his lame ass.
So, “Someone” and all those who feel empathy for these fucks, do us all a favor and eat a barrel….you do nothing but a grave disservice to the victims of these sad little fucks.
No excuse for taking innocent lives. NONE.
It constantly amazes me how people can in the same breath, express sympathy for the victims, and the assholes who took their lives.
The sad truth is that bullying, hazing, teasing…whatever, is a part of life. That does NOT make it right, but as long as humans continue to be “human”, these things will never fully fade away.
As for myself….I was teased relentlessly throughout elementry school and on throughout hs. I was overweight and HAD suck a striking resemblence to “Pat” from the famous SNL skits, that I could have been her stunt double. (go ahead and have a chuckle…it’s true, only wish I had an old school pic to prove it)
I would often cry after school, and later on progressed to bitterness over the fact that I wasn’t as “beautiful” as the ones making fun of me. Did I ever want to kill them? Damn Skippy!!!
Then I grew up!!!
I would be the first to say that my exprience throughout school was terrible…but who’s isn’t? No matter the abuse I recieved, at no point did I have the right to shoot them. In fact, I am a better person for it. I won’t go so far as thanking them for it, but they inadvertently made made me stronger.
It takes a good person to go through that bs and come out the other side better for it.
These fucks like robbie here, those columbine fucktards, or even the douche bag who shot kids here in san diego-the santana shootings, all have proven their worth. They are worth less than a handful of poo!
If their cause was so righteous, so just, why not stand up in a court of law and proclaim it, instead of taking the coward’s way out?
Lucky they did, because frankly I myself wouldn’t mind shoving each against a wall and give them all an education in earth sciences…particularly the aspects of the natural element….lead.
Robert Hawkins was a sick, twisted little fucker. He wasn’t a victim.
No wonder he was a drug addict and alcoholic? So fucking what? I was a drug addict and alcoholic, I was picked on, nobody loved me – because I was a drug addict and alcoholic, not the other way around. Had he accepted the help people tried giving him none of this would’ve happened.
But he wanted to play victim, everybody was mean to him, wah, wah, wah. He was a pussy that wouldn’t accept responsibility for his life.
The only victims are the people he shot, excluding himself. And then he shot himself because he was, true to form, too big of a pussy to accept responsibility for shooting others.
Don’t defend him, or try to rationalize what he did. The blame lies on Robert Hawkins – no one else.
You are upgraded from a tool to a saint heh. Although I still take issue with your not believing in the DP…
I’m still a tool.
DP? Very specific reasons for opposition. Please note, I’ve never said someone shouldn’t be executed.
As a practical matter, execution, as currently carried out, should not be allowed in the United States.
This silly little bitch is featured in a series of articles today. http://www.omaha.com
Max, “But I had a desire to be more than I was, because I knew I had something to prove to myself, and to every person who ever wrote me off as a loser.” Robert did this too, just in a different way. He wasn’t given the tools to deal with it in the way you were. Fred Wilson, one of his victims has forgiven him and now pleads with Nebraska’s Health and Human Services to change the way they deal with children with disturbed children that are in their care. The only to blame for the shooting is most definitly Robert Hawkins, but his POS parents (daddy cared more about the step snatch and mommy want to “party” rather than be a mother) are NOT to be let off the hook along with the NHHS worker who said “well, although we know he is still mentally unstable…we will drop him out of the system cuz we’re tired of him, and see if he can stand on his own” FUNKING DUMB BITCH!! The world suffers when parents and other adults who are in control don’t do what they are responsible for doing. PARENTS NEED TO BE PARENTS! and SOCIAL WORKERS NEED TO DO THEIR JOBS CORRECTLY! Nebraska has been ‘fumbling the ball’ for too long now and they need to be hels accountable! Bunch of LAZY-ASSED pencil pushing dickheads! Robert did ask for help, he was pushed under the the cushion like a dirty sock! People like Fred Wilson need to be the ones in control, I wish he would run for Mayor now that Fahey is out. Then maybe something would be done in shitty crime ridden Omaha!!! BTW, I’m no bleeding heart liberal!! Just a mom.
Mrs. Nebraska Mom, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no interwebs, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Slim- Bite me! Just because you don’t agree with my ‘ramblings’ does’t make them idiotic. You apparently don’t pay attention to what is happening in Nebraska. Where HHS is under investigation constantly for FUCKING UP!
Agree? Disagree? For the love of Black Jesus woman, I can’t make heads or tells outta that drivel.
Who the hell pays attention to Nebraska? I’m sure that’s as interesting as watching turds dry.
Why is it ‘insane’ to state that parents need to be parents and so called ‘professionals’ need to do the jobs thet are paid to do! Omaha is a fucking joke! Gangsta* bitches getting off because ‘they ate the lead paint chips”. Babies given back to crank additcts so their boyfiends can shake-the-shit out of them. All because that NHHS does’t know what they are doing. Fuck Nebraska Humane Society does a better job taking care of the farrel cats in Omaha!
Well, on December 5, 2007 the whole world was paying attention to Nebraska, wern’t they?
Hey Slim ‘Dick’ins: and why the fuck does god need to have mercy on ‘my’ soul? Because I don’t agree with you? Maybe I don’t agree with your so-called ‘God’ either!
Fuck You Fucken Fuck D.O.T.
I am so tired of hearing people say someone did something like this because of how they were raised. Yes, the household a child grows up in does shape their future… SHAPES it. It does not make it. Having worked in the psychology field for many years and having grown up in a semi-abusive home myself, and knowing people who have grown up in extremely abusive homes, I know for a FACT that people do not turn into killers just because of their childhood or bad experiences. There are many people who kill people, and if you look into their childhood it was just plain peachy. I was at the mall that day. I saw the terror on peoples faces as they ran out of the mall, a mother clutching her 2 year old son as she ran in horror. Or the saleswoman that I held in my arms for nearly 20 minutes as she sobbed about the mother with the 2 year old son, because she had left them in the shoe department and was scared they were dead. So many people comment on this day, not fully knowing the horrors that these people faced. So many people want to use it as some sort of sick twisted amusement they get by posting comments that might get them some sort of reaction. Those of you who post “shock” comments just because you want a reaction should be ashamed of yourselves. You have no consideration for the people who lost loved ones on this day. As for those of you who think he did this horrible crime because of how he was raised, please realize, many people go through bad times, some people went through things far worse than he ever did, but you choose what you make of your life. You choose your actions, he chose his.
Kate, here is my shock comment/question for you:
“Or the saleswoman that I held in my arms for nearly 20 minutes as she sobbed”
Did she give you a store discount?
Thanks.
20% would have been nice…
Ive never met this guy. Never even knew him before the rolling stone article came out. But for some reason, i am deeply connected to this boy. Its like i long to see him and meet him whereever he is. I cant stop thinking about him either yet it doesnt even drive me insane. I dont care what any of you think, say that im an “explicative” word, well i could care less. I just need to post this. Robert, i dont even know you but youll always be with me in someway. “in the evening sun.”-the strokes
I think it means you have to save a lost soul like Robert’s before they do something seriously wrong. I think it’s fate calling you.
I won’t judge you. My advice is don’t become the sacrifice.
“Don’t lay on the alter, swallow the pill with naked wrists exposed. One hand at the nape of your neck, with a scalpel in the other.”- Turtlemania
you’re a fucking weirdo, raechel. a word of advice- when you’re infatuation turns into an obsession and you wanna make the ultimate sacrifice to your idol robert, kill yourself instead of innocent mallgoers.
because you’re a catastrophe waiting to happen.
“They love you or they hate you, but they will never let you be. They thrill you or sedate you, but they will never let you see..” -the strokes
Raechel, baby, what’s going on in that little head of yours. Lot’s of us have probably felt like Robert felt – Alienated, depressed, cut off from the rest of society. But Robby crossed the line, and that’s what makes him an evil sack of shit. It wasn’t some kind of statement about his condition, he just wanted to “go out with a bang”. He didn’t pick out his tormentors, or his parents, or people that you could say to yourself, “well, that’s messed up, but I see why he thought he should do it”. Nah, he picked innocent people, folks he didn’t know from a hole in the ground. And he made sure he was the only one with the gun, a real coward move. So my suggestion to you is to think it out a little more before you add this guy to your ‘people I want to meet’ list on your MySpace.
Raechel. there are plenty of people in the world who have been bullied at school. I was one of them. And yeah, it stays with you…if you let it. Most people go out and get therapy. Some talk it over with a fiend or close relative. Some kill themselves.
Robert killed innocent people. You feel connected to that? Says a lot about you darl…..
* while some people do talk over problems with a fiend…most choose a friend…it was a typo…
Listin everyone. Ive never ever ever ever thought of “killing” myself, and i do agree with some people. “why would you ever kill yourself?” “can you imagen what my parents would think?” im just saying that i feel extremely connected. Im not going to go into a mall and kill innocent people. Gawd
how, exactly did you expect people to take that darlin? you know, there are a lot of women who do what you are doing. they fall in love with convicted serial killers, and end up marrying them while they are in prison. for life. i assume it is their way of shocking people, and becoming somebody. doesn’t sound like a very happy life to me. thank god this guy is dead. if you’d like, feel free to describe this ‘connection’ you feel to this selfish, pathetic little boy who took a gun into a room full of innocent people. yeah, cause he doesn’t really sound like someone that i would want to know. do explain. i’m not even trying to be an asshole, i’d just love to know what draws you to this dude.
Your connected to someone that you’ve never met, and you find yourself thinking of him constantly, can’t get him off your mind.
For this Raechel there is a word. It’s called Obsessed. I’m curius, how can you have a connection to someone you have never met, and have only read about online, in newspapers and seen on TV? You might have seen a myspace of something he created, but that would be the limit.
Stars often run into this problem and it is usually resolved with stalking charges. Thinking you might want to get out more, tell your parents about these thoughts you have and let them help you find a really good counselor.
Just imagine how proud your parents would feel if they knew you were obsessing over a murderer.
There are many ways you could hurt your parents, and feeling a connection with scum like Robert would be one of them.
You need to learn to read. Where did i tell you to go kill yourself??? Huh???
What i said is that people deal with their problems in life in various ways.
One way would be to seek therapy. (which i personally think you are in dire need of.)
Another way would be to get a gun and go around shooting innocent people.
You could seek out a good friend or close relative to discuss matters with.
Or another way would be to take a gun and put a bullet in ones own head.
I would suggest option one to anyone who was facing difficulties i life that they could not deal with. Option three is also a good one.
I also think that if it was a choice between killing others and killing ones self, then killing ones self would be the way to go.
You want to come into an open forum and tell the world that you feel a connection to a killer and that you constantly think about him, and then expect us to pat you on the back and say,” jolly good for you.”
NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
Grow up!!!
No. This is why you people do this. You have no life and say shit about people you dont know. Robert was a poor kid. And im sure hes glad that you’re all writing mean shit about him because he could care less whereever he is.how do you think someone he knows feels when they look on this website and see all the hatefull posts of him. And this isnt just his posts, its everyone on here. Sure some people really diserve “hell” but lets get a life and stop posting hatefull things.
Wow!!! I was actually trying to be polite, which is a completely new concept to me, and this little clit pimple wants to start ripping on all of us.
I’m sure your still just a twinkle in your Daddy’s eye with the best part still a stain on ya momma’s sheet, so let me help you out here with an ole saying us old fogies like to use:
When in Rome do as the Romans do.
IE: Not a good idea to come on here and rip us when we attempt to show you how you might be misguided and actually give you a little useful advice. If your cerebrum is incapable of consumating the electrical synapses crossing through your cerebral cortex or frontal lobes, that’s ok.
Now run along little one, your Daddies are calling you. (Yes, the plural form was intentional before the spellcheck police attack me.)
Oh shut up you empty headed dingbat. No one here considers anything we write here as serious or important. Most of it’s humorous musings or just some harmless venting. It’s morons like yourself who can’t take a joke, or for some sick reason find yourself feeling sorry for murderers, rapists, and child abusers who get all up in arms about the posting on this board. You came here and posted ridiculous messages about how connected you feel to a mass murderer, and now you’re pissed because we made fun of you. In other words, if you can’t stand the heat stay the fuck out of the kitchen.
Putz
Yes. Your all right. Stay happy. Jesus
How patronizing of you…..
I was actually there that day… Those are memories I will have to live with… seeing someone’s head explode right in front of you… not really knowing what is going on, whether you are safe… the sirens going off, the piped-in Christmas music… we were all just shopping for gifts one minute, and taking cover inside clothing racks the next. I will never forget that as long as I live, although I wish I could.
And Raechel tells us we should consider the feelings of Robert…i dont think so. Not when you read thesml’s comment and see how Roberts actions has impacted his life.
I cannot believe there are people who feel bad for this asshole. I get that he had a bad life*supposedly* but all sympathy was lost when he took the lives of innocent people.
I feel bad that he was subjected to such a bad life before. It doesn’t mean I can’t still hate the piss out of him now for what he did. I don’t think having sympathy for someone should be conditional.
With that said, I also have sympathy for the innocent people, of whom, may have been assholes before they were shot, which means that I would hate them personally, but I still have sympathy in their death…
I guess it kind of goes both ways.
@YoMomma-well you are good:) I see your point.
YoMomma I clicked on your name’s link on Top Commentators…I did not like it…I’m scared…One minute you have rainbows and day dreams on your mind (at least I do)…the next you have bloody postage wrapped corpse gals in your face. :o)
I as well see your point.
Hahaha… I have a good balance. I have to keep that equilibrium so my head wont be in the clouds or six feet under! :-P
I like that… “In the clouds or six feet under?”…lyrical.
Ok, now I’m being too nice…Enough is enough. :o)
Yeah, man, fuck you and your nice words. This is a place for name calling, arguments, and the occasional ignorant remark! :-P
You ‘ight…laughing out lizoud.
Robert Hawkins was a result of the Nebraska mental health system which is almost non existant for children and teens as Nebraska’s recent issue with their safe haven law showed.
“He enjoyed hunting, as many Nebraskan kids do.” I live in Nebraska and I couldn’t name 5 people that hunted for fun.. Or in general.
So this is what you got out of a story about some loser murdering 8 innocent people because he was mad at the world over his shitty life? Seriously? You need to examine that brother, you really do.
Morgan -
Can you name five people, period?
Morgan -
Can you name five people, period?
I s’pose I should clarify that — I deliberately focused on one part of your post just like you focused on one simple part of the story, which was a generalization that is actually accurate. There are parts of the United States (where Nebraska currently resides) where some activities are more prevalent then other parts of the country.
For instance, how many people in Nebraska surf something other than the internet? Out West where I’m from, we have these people who take these long boards out on the ocean and “hang 10″ on the waves. Don’t get that much in your area, right? Well, we don’t have a lot of big game out here, so not a lot of us grow up looking at life through the crosshairs of a Browning rifle, or whatever your pleasure might be. Capice?
It could be the C.I.A. using emotionally fragile people with a sorted past to commit these murders so the public will not only not FIGHT when they take away our right to bear arms, but will demand it.
It could be demonic possesion by an extra dimensional being.
Look into it.
Oh joy. Another story about a kid with a bad life deciding the world owed him something and killing innocent people.
I feel for these people. I do. I’ve been dealing with depression for about 10 years and have been on anti-depressants and such for five and a half years. My life hasn’t been nearly as difficult as this kid’s, though there were money troubles, family strife, the death of my mother, and just generally folding to the pressures of society….
Point being, we all have our sob stories. At some point we have to decide, “Hey, do I want to perpetuate this spiraling loop of darkness or do I want to find some way to break free?” Instead of allowing himself to get bogged down in crappy jobs and crappy people, he could’ve gone out on his own, gone back to school, whatever. The story says he had an adult giving him shelter and whom was genuinely concerned about him, so don’t tell me he was completely on his own. Obviously he had good friends if they let him stay with their parents and caring parental figures if those people took him in, no questions asked.
So yes, I feel for what he’s been through and whatever his mental state might have been.
However, here’s a harsh lesson or two: SOMETIMES WE DON’T GET WHAT WE WANT, HOW WE WANT IT, AND WHEN WE WANT IT.
Oh and, THE WORLD DOESN’T EXIST SOLELY FOR YOUR AMUSEMENT.
He could’ve decided that the society he was living in wasn’t for him and worked to carve his own little niche in the world. Maybe channel his energy into art or philanthropy and try to make things better. Not just for the world, but for himself. I mean, not only would he be doing good deeds, but he would be gaining the respect and recognition that had sorely been lacking in his life.
But no instead, he took the coward’s way out. He decided that the world owed him something. Instead of finding his voice and making a life for himself, he decided to go and take the lives of others, lives of people who didn’t know him and had nothing to do with his crappy situation. Then he decided to make sure he really went out in jackass style by leaving a note about how this would make him famous.
Then, instead of being tough and taking his lumps, he killed himself and left the world having accomplished….nothing. He could’ve stayed alive and made sure his voice was heard, but then he did this and made sure that his life really DIDN’T mean anything except to be some cruddy footnote in a violent history.
“Hey anyone remember Robert Hawkins?”
“Who?”
“That guy…he shot up a mall in Omaha.”
“Oh yeah. What a jerk.”
See what I mean? Nothing more than a stain. He has people hating him even though they never knew him or knew his situation, when he could’ve been so much more.
And before people come up behind me and say, “He had no choice! He had nowhere to go! He was screwed! He didn’t have a chance!”
He at least could’ve TRIED. He could’ve TRIED to better himself or TRIED to find a less violent way to fix things and still save himself. He could’ve TRIED. There’s always a chance as long as you’re willing to fight and look for alternatives.
Thank you for taking this. Great post and great you address this. I was reading your posting.
Even though this is a terrible tragedy, atleast something good comes out of things like this. It makes people think about how they are treating people, it makes people introspect which is necessarily a good thing.
One lesson to take from horrific shooting…
Hate breeds hate.
…and
RIP, all the victims of this horrible act of inhumanity.
I have to admit… I think ticked off at society is right about this one. While there are alot of horrible, selfish people on here that can best be described as “monsters” I just can’t say that that fits here. I just want to point out that all we know about him are his bad actions on one day we have no idea what he was like in his day to day life with his friends. Some people are jerks their whole life this kid just had a bad day… it was just a really, really bad day. he seems like a good person driven to anger by the absolute filth that permeates society. Also another point is that this is hard to understand unless you are sort of an “outsider” to society. it is hard to judge a person that you don’t understand. Of course I could be completely wrong there is very very little evidence in this case more a matter of opinion. I doubt it though.
“Just had a bad day”???? You want to know who REALLY had a bad day? Gary Scharf, 48; John McDonald, 65; Angella Schuster, 36; Maggie Webb, 24; Janet Jorgenson, 67; Dianne Trent, 53; Gary Joy, 56; and Beverly Flynn, 47. The “bad day” for these folks was their last, as Robert Hawkins killed them. Here is a link to an article that talks about the victims in great detail:
http://www.ketv.com/news/14782867/detail.html#ixzz1WNxGNASB
And how do you figure that he seemed like a good person? What facts show you that he was a good person? Here are a couple more details about the boy that you think seemed like a good person: He had threatened to kill his step-mother, which lead to his admission to one of the many residential treatment facilities in which he was a patient (no wonder his dad gave him up to be a ward of the state); he has a history of possessing illegal drugs with the intent to distribute; and – now this is a big one – his shooting rampage started near the children’s section of the store on the third floor. Now, why would he go all the way up to the third floor before he started shooting? I think it is safe to say he bee-lined it for the children’s section because he knew the notoriety he sought would be bolstered if he took out a few little kiddos. Doesn’t sound like just a bad day, now, does it?
Yes, he was dealt a crappy hand in life. So were many people. They don’t all murder innocent strangers. I felt bad for Robert Hawkins up to the point when he decided to take his anger out on innocent people. He no longer deserves my sympathy. For anyone whose heart still bleeds for poor little Robbie, maybe you could take a minute to think of all of his victims and their families and friends. They are the people who deserve your sympathy. And, according to the article I linked above, they actually do seem like good people.
I am frightened that people are suggesting Robert’s crappy childhood, outcast social status, poor job prospects, etc, somehow absolves him of one iota of guilt. Why? Because those comments can encourage other people, like Robert, to do the same thing. Can’t you almost hear their demented little brains ticking away — “Hey, Robert had a bad life, that is why he killed a bunch of people. I have a bad life, so I can kill a bunch of people, too! And it will make me famous!”
If you really feel badly for kids like Robert and want to make the world a better place for them, don’t give them any assurance that it is even marginally OK to do this. Instead, volunteer to be a mentor to at-risk youth; if you know a kid who is having a hard time, reach out to that kid and be a friend; raise your own kids in a loving environment. But do not, ever, try to justify the senseless murder of innocent people!
and a song came out called pumped up kicks
“Kids are just getting younger and younger and losing their minds and going on killing sprees. It really was bothering me, and I was trying to figure out why that was happening more and more. I wanted to tell that story and get inside the head of a kid going crazy. The song’s about isolation, being an outcast, and seeing the world through the character’s eyes. It’s not about him actually physically going and doing anything, it’s about his mental state.” ~ Mark Foster, of Foster the People.
After much research, I’ve noticed that people are jumping to the conclusion that “Pumped Up Kicks” is about Robert Hawkins. If you actually listen to the song and read the lyrics, you’ll see it isn’t. The first verse refers to a “Robert” yes, but one who is a loner. Robert Hawkins was not a loner.
Your argument? Invalid.
what do u mean robert hawkins wasn’t a loner LOLLLL he had acne and most people didn’t like him. that’s why he felt like shit and went off. “Pumped up kicks” is about robert hawkins they even said that….
No, they did not say that, in fact their publicist even clarified the issue by making a public statement that the song is NOT about any Robert in particular. Seriously, do some research. It is just a random smattering of wannabe fans who are saying it is about this particular Robert.
All the other kids with the pumped up kicks you’d better run better run, outrun my gun :o
y do u quys think he deserves to be in hell i dnt think god really needs yhur opinion in were he shld send those who sin like this i think that if people wld have treated him wit more love &’ wld respect him none of this wld have happened &’ it is alsonthe fault of the parents of robert &’ all of his bullies for puttinq him throuqh the life he had
I don’t think God needs your opinion about whether or not he needs our opinions, Jasmine. You cannot blame society for the monsters.
Incidentally, ‘q’ and ‘g’ are two completely different letters. Please, for the love of Qod, learn that.
LMAO!!! You made me chuckle! haha ( ‘q’ and ‘g’ )
Oh I missed the “Qod” LMAO!!!!!
????? Is this Bible School??????? First of all, Jasmine, AGAIN I will say to you Bible Thumpers……It’s spelled “G”od. If you can’t spell it then don’t talk about it!!!
My childhood was HORRID with bullies!!!! And, Yes, It does affect you to a point, BUT, that is not a good enough excuse for me! I also had to live for a time with a step-mother that tried to poison me!!! NO SHIT and NOT A LIE!!!! There has to be a point where we take some responsibility for OUR actions.
guys you can’t assume he’s going to hell. what if after he killed those people he felt terrible, sorry and killed himself? if that’s true, he’ll be in heaven..
Aaron, Seriously. Please explain to me what part of Christian mythology you are referring to when you assume that suicide cases get to Heaven. Because from what I’ve read, suicide is unforgivable, which means Purgatory if you’re lucky. But that’s just one sect’s belief system concerning “Qod” and good ole, knee- slappin’ Christian retribution, etc. The only reason he shot himself is because it was easier than getting caught. He was a coward and anyone on this site citing his “traumatic adolescence” as a good reason for him to go around blowing people’s brains out is a stupid, enabling moron who should be sterilised before infecting the planet with the progeny of their feeble- mindedness. Let’s NOT put the little shit up on a pedestal, shall we?
He was sorry he killed them or just was scared to go to jail. Come on guy seriously god said thou shall not kill and the only way to be saved is to confess and repent so it stands to reason that if you kill yorself you can’t possibly repent so yeah he’s definetly in hell.
wow idiot did you know that his father molested him and he was molested at a camp??????
Wow idiot did you know that plenty of people are molested every day but choose to live good, productive lives?
Nobody’s saying that his past wasn’t sad. But it’s not an excuse for what he did. I’m so sick of people trying to get away with being the most heinous, disgusting creatures on Earth because somebody may have diddled with them as a child. It’s simply not fair to survivors of sexual abuse who try to be better people than the circumstances would try to dictate. I have zero sympathy for anyone who uses this as an excuse to go around blowing people away, or raping little babies, or whatever else people try to pass off with the “Oooh, but I had such a rubbish childhood” story.
You guys can say what you want and talk about how he was raised but I knew Garry Scharf and he took his life and nothing will ever be the because of it
i dont think he deserves hell hes was a troubled kid and his dad abused him! i mean i would be depressed too. yes i know he shouldnt of shot people cause of his own issues but he was teased and he wanted revenged so he did it it was stupid to take other people lives including his own but he doesnt deserve to be in hell.
Please. I know many people abused by their parents. Hell, I married a man abandoned by his father and abused by a number of stepfathers. The only people he’s ever held utter hate for are people who harm children, but he’s never beat one up or killed them.
I was teased in high school. I was beaten up almost every day, had stuff stolen from me, was called names and physically/verbally harassed. I was driven into a depression cycle that had me contemplating/attempting suicide several times. It only got better one day when I cracked and beat up the guy who was beating me up. After that the taunting stopped because I refused to be a victim. I took out the pain I felt on one of the people causing it, not an innocent bystander. I survived the rest of my high school years and in college it got a lot better.
This coward decided that if he was going to go down he was going to bring attention to himself even in death. I don’t buy the whole abused/tormented thing. So many people,especially on this site, are law-abiding citizens who love their families despite horrible upbringings and would reach out to a total stranger who needs a shoulder to cry on in a second despite putting themselves into a vulnerable postion. Many have fallen off the substance wagon so many times they can’t count. Walk into any room with more than two or three people and I can all but promise you’ll find someone who has felt teased and/or tormented at some point. If everyone who had a crappy upbringing who was teased went off the deep end because ‘it’s expected because of their past’ there’d be a lot more violence in this world. Shitty upbringings are no excuse to take our your anger on innocents.
No, he does not deserve Hell. Chances are excellent that he’s not there anyway (not making the “loving God doesn’t send people” there argument either. More making a human “beast” angel didn’t care for the silly place and routed it, argument [Gave Hell some Hell!*love that expression*] The concept of “deserving Hell” from Christian perspective of being “unsaved” is based on a faulty and unscriptural perspective of the place. From a secular non-religious perspective [especially in this article], it’s based on visceral judgmentalism and vindictiveness.) This is the problem, and I STRONGLY suggest, I mean STRONGLY suggest, Christians not mock this (or non-Christians for that matter). It will cost you in a way you can’t imagine spiritually and economically. There is something significant about the date 11-5-07 (odd numbers, especially involving a “5″ and “11″ and 7″. There was an incredible plan of God for him based on this combination, and women can figure it out (it wasn’t sexual either, necessarily). But two issues: Even in an unsaved status, per se, how this could be avoided based on spiritual principles?: 1) Avoiding anti-depressants. They cause suicidal tendencies and possibly rage. 2) His hair was parted on the wrong side spiritually. Demons despise that look on a man, and they will target them. For a young man with that length of hair, parting it on the left side is critical. The right side is demonic. If it were parted on the left side, he would have most likely been fine that day.
Robert T. Permar (facebook)
You sound sane.
Either I’m more sleep deprived then I thought, or this post is whacky.
This article is demeaning, shooting yourself does not make you a coward. I don’t believe you could shoot yourself either so how does that make him a coward. I’m an Atheist but no if there was a hell he wouldn’t be going to it. Sure, you need to learn to control you’re temper but it’s mostly the kids who bullied him’s fault. Though I do feel sorry for the innocent people who died. After reading this article, I hope to see you in hell as well, because this is poorly written and I think if Robert was alive, you’d be dead yourself.
Are you retarded?
“it’s mostly the kids who bullied him’s fault”
Or maybe it was Robert’s fault because he killed innocent people. Idiot. He makes his own decisions and he shouldn’t have done that. And yes, he WAS a coward.
Everyone deserves repentance, including Robert Hawkins… Think about it. How would you feel if no one liked you, and the only way into the lime light was to start shooting. Confess and be forgiven.
-Tnbt
Are you shitting me? No one liked me all throughout high school. You’re telling me this is a perfectly legit reason to kill innocent people? You’re fucking insane. You want the “lime light”? How about helping others so that your good deeds are noticed throughout the community? How about discovering a talent that you wouldn’t have thought you possessed and working to be great? Tnbt, you are a complete dumbass.
Omg seriously ok he was molested and I was raped and molested since I was 5 and I didn’t chose to go shot people all willy nilly. He made a choice to take his sorry ass to the mall and shot 14 people killing 9 of them and then didn’t even have the balls to face it because ohe knew what he did was wrong. Fuck him he’s burning in hell where he deserves your prayers should be for the loved ones of the people he murdered you idiots not him.
I will do this next week at my place of work. However, I will leave no one standing, no one!
He was mOlested as in he was made to give grown ups head?
Bret has learnt to swallow over the years I’ve groomed him..
He does not deserve hell. He was pushed to the edge. He was obviously unhealthy mentally, and was given the resources and snapped.
So we should excuse one’s actions because someone is ‘mentally unhealthy’?
Sounds good to me. I just had a sudden change in plans for my afternoon.