Joe Horn
Behold the face of evil
This is 61-year-old Joe Horn.
Don’t let the smile fool you.
And don’t let his respectable history fool you, either. A native of Houston, Texas, Joe Horn worked in the communication industry for decades, moving up the ladder slowly but surely before retiring as a computer program manager for AT&T in 1998.
Later that year, Joe Horn moved in with his daughter and her husband in their house in Kentucky to help raise his grandchildren. When his daughter’s husband died, everyone moved back to Houston and Joe Horn went back to work to help support them. Eventually his daughter re-married, they bought a house in Houston, and invited Joe Horn to move in, which he did, again.
All that good stuff doesn’t matter, because Joe Horn is a cold-blooded killer, with the instincts of a vicious, hungry, evil tiger, as he showed with his actions on the 14th of November, 2007.
On that day, Joe Horn saw two individuals breaking into his neighbor’s house.
Now, Joe Horn didn’t know those neighbors very well, unlike the neighbors on the other side of his house. He knew that they were Vietnamese and that they ran a local dry-cleaners.
Mostly, Joe Horn knew that two people were breaking into the house right in front of his very eyes, in broad daylight, probably to take stuff that wasn’t theirs.
Now, he could have been wrong. These two people could have just been there to check the meter. They could have been lost. They could have been there to sell magazine subscriptions.
Regardless of who they were and why they were there, Joe Horn had a shotgun and wanted to shoot someone with it. This, Joe Horn undoubtedly thought, was the perfect opportunity to kill someone – after which he could fulfill his secret desire to wallow in human blood up to his ankles.
To cover his tracks, Joe Horn called the police.
It was a devious move, one that could only be thought up by the most creative of criminal minds.
You see, Texas (which is an evil state) subscribes to the concept of what is commonly known as the Castle Doctrine. This concept basically allows someone to treat their house, or the area around it, as a place that they can expect sanctuary, and gives a person the legal right to use deadly force to defend that place.
Twisted, yes, I know.
Joe Horn knew the law. He knew the law well enough to twist it to his ends.
The elderly killer talked to the 911 dispatcher, telling him about the supposed “crime” going on in front of his eyes, eerily mentioning his desire to kill at the same time.
“I’ve got a shotgun,” Horn said. “Do you want me to stop them?”
The dispatcher responded in a sane, responsible fashion, “Nope, don’t do that – ain’t no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?”
And it’s true! Nothing is worth shooting someone over – ever!
Every. Single. Human. Life. Is. Priceless.
PRICELESS!
Despite the fact that every time someone “steals” from someone else, they are walking away with the amount of lifetime that it took for their “victim” to earn that property, that doesn’t ever give someone the right to kill someone over it!
No!
Despite the fact that it took your sister over three years to save up the money for that car that she uses to get to work, and that someone taking it from her would conceivably be stealing the part of her life that she “spent” “earning” that money, defending your sister’s right to her property with deadly force against a threatening individual would be completely out of line!
Back to the story.
Joe Horn waited for several minutes for a police response, which was, according to the 911 operator, “on it’s way.”
Exasperated, he told the operator:
Hurry up man, catch these guys, will you? ‘Cause I’m ain’t gonna let ‘em go, I’m gonna be honest with you, I’m not gonna let ‘em go. I’m not gonna let ‘em get away with this shit.
A little while after saying that, Joe Horn saw one of his potential victims standing in front of his house, staring at it from the street. He told the operator about this:
I don’t know if they’re armed or not. I know they got a crowbar ’cause that’s what they broke the windows with. … Man, this is scary, I can’t believe this is happening in this neighborhood.
Riiight, Joe. Of course you’re scared. You’re a 61-year-old man with a shotgun. Shotguns make people brave. Just ask this man.
Joe Horn was excited now. The 911 operator asked Joe if he could still see the “suspect” in front of his house, but by then they had both gone into his neighbor’s house. Joe Horn begins to talk about his plan – his plan for murder.
I can go out the front, but if I go out the front I’m bringing my shotgun with me, I swear to God. I am not gonna let ‘em get away with this, I can’t take a chance on getting killed over this, OK? I’m gonna shoot, I’m gonna shoot.
Despite the operator telling him to stay in the house, that it wasn’t worth shooting someone over a few stolen items, Joe Horn responds that he “doesn’t want to go out there” (yeah, right!):
I don’t want to, but I mean if I go out there, you know, to see what the hell is going on, what choice am I gonna have?
Joe Horn stayed in his house for a while longer, but he was itching to kill. After five minutes had passed, with no sight of any cops, no help of any kind, Joe Horn continued to talk to the operator.
Here’s a transcript of their conversation:
Dispatcher: I want you to listen to me carefully, OK?
Joe Horn: Yes?
Dispatcher: I got ultras coming out there. I don’t want you to go outside that house. And I don’t want you to have that gun in your hand when those officers are poking around out there.
Joe Horn: I understand that, OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir, and you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the First and you know it and I know it.
Oh, smooth, Joe. Use the terrorist bombings of the 11th of September, 2001 as an excuse to murder. Very smooth.
Dispatcher: I understand.
Joe Horn: I have a right to protect myself …
Dispatcher: I’m …
Joe Horn: And a shotgun is a legal weapon, it’s not an illegal weapon.
Dispatcher: No, it’s not, I’m not saying that, I’m just not wanting you to …
Joe Horn: He’s coming out the window right now, I gotta go, buddy. I’m sorry, but he’s coming out the window.
Dispatcher: Don’t, don’t, don’t go out the door. Mr. Horn? Mr. Horn?
Joe Horn: They just stole something. I’m going after them, I’m sorry.
Dispatcher: Don’t go outside.
Joe Horn: I ain’t letting them get away with this shit. They stole something. They got a bag of something.
Dispatcher: Don’t go outside the house.
Joe Horn: I’m doing this.
Dispatcher: Mr. Horn, do not go outside the house.
Joe Horn: I’m sorry. This ain’t right, buddy.
Dispatcher: You’re going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun, I don’t care what you think.
Joe Horn: You want to make a bet?
Dispatcher: OK? Stay in the house.
Joe Horn: They’re getting away!
Dispatcher: That’s all right. Property’s not worth killing someone over, OK?
Joe Horn: Bullshit!
Dispatcher: Don’t go out the house. Don’t be shooting nobody. I know you’re pissed and you’re frustrated, but don’t do it.
Joe Horn: They got a bag of loot.
Dispatcher: OK. How big is the bag … which way are they going?
Joe Horn: I’m going outside. I’ll find out.
Dispatcher: I don’t want you going outside, Mr. Horn.
Joe Horn: Well, here it goes, buddy. You hear the shotgun clicking and I’m going.
Dispatcher: Don’t go outside.
Joe Horn yelling: Move, you’re dead!
[Sound of shots being fired]
Then Horn is back on the phone:
Joe Horn: Get the law over here quick. I’ve now, get, one of them’s in the front yard over there, he’s down, he almost run down the street. I had no choice. They came in the front yard with me, man, I had no choice! … Get somebody over here quick, man.
Dispatcher: Mister Horn, are you out there right now?
Joe Horn: No, I am inside the house, I went back in the house. Man, they come right in my yard, I didn’t know what the — they was gonna do, I shot ‘em, OK?
Dispatcher: Did you shoot somebody?
Joe Horn: Yes, I did, the cops are here right now.
Dispatcher: Where are you right now?
Joe Horn: I’m inside the house. …
Dispatcher: Mister Horn, put that gun down before you shoot an officer of mine. I’ve got several officers out there without uniforms on.
Joe Horn: I am in the front yard right now. I am …
Dispatcher: Put that gun down! There’s officers out there without uniforms on. Do not shoot anybody else, do you understand me? I’ve got police out there…
Joe Horn: I understand, I understand. I am out in the front yard waving my hand right now.
Dispatcher: You don’t have a gun with you, do you?
Joe Horn: No, no, no.”
Dispatcher: You see a uniformed officer? Now lay down on the ground and don’t do nothing else.
Dispatcher: Lay down on the ground, Mister Horn. Do what the officers tell you to do right now.
Here is the audio for that call. Listen to the evil dripping from every word Joe Horn utters.
So, despite the 911 operator’s impassioned pleas for calm, Joe Horn walked outside, confronted the two individuals, and blew them both away with 12-gauge shotgun blasts to the back right as a plainclothes detective was pulling up.
Evil.
Frankly, I’m surprised Joe Horn didn’t take all that jewelry himself, hiding it under his mattress until he could sell it to some shady pawn shop to get money for crack.
Maybe if the cops hadn’t arrived for another moment or so, Joe Horn would have…
The cops arrived in time to carry off the two people that Joe Horn had shot. They turned out to be 38-year-old Miguel Antonio DeJesus, pictured here, and his childhood friend from Cali, Colombia, 30-year-old Diego Ortiz.
They were found with a sack filled with more than $2,000 in cash and jewelry that had been taken from Joe Horn’s neighbor’s home.
Ok, so they were burglars.
While rifling through their pockets, looking for spare change, police found that Diego Ortiz had two identification cards on him, with two different names on them. He also had a crowbar.
Miguel Antonio DeJesus turned out to really be Hernando Riascos Torres. Hernando Torres had been convicted of drug charges in 1994, and was ordered to be deported after serving five years of a 25-year sentence. Somehow, Hernando had managed to stay, or had come back after being deported – officials aren’t really sure. Hernando/Miguel had three identification cards in his possession, each with a different name.
Ok so they were illegal immigrant burglars with multiple ID’s and a crowbar. Big deal. They were people too!
Miguel Antonio DeJesus’s fiance, Stephanie Storey, is especially distraught over Joe Horn’s murderous tendencies, after she caught a glimpse of her betrothed’s body on television as cameras recorded it lying on a lawn.
39-year-old Stephanie Storey, who had dated Miguel DeJesus off and on for seven years, knew that the pair were having some tough times, but doubts that they were really making a living by stealing things.
If this was something he did, he would have money and jewelry, and he never did.
Stephanie did, however know that her salsa dance-loving finance had another identity and false Puerto Rican papers.
Even if they were hardened criminals who made their living off the fruit of other people’s labor, Stephanie Storey firmly believes that the pair did not deserve to die.
We saw they were doing the crime; we can’t dispute that. I’m not saying they were saints, but I’m sure they’d prefer to be behind bars than dead. If they were two white boys, he would have given them the opportunity to stop.
You just can’t argue with that kind of logic.
Unless you’re Joe Horn, who made this diabolical statement through Tom Lambright, his attorney and friend for over 40 years.
The events of that day will weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life. My thoughts go out to the loved ones of the deceased.
Evil.
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195 Comments »
This guy should have stayed inside, and he obviously wasn’t level headed enough to have a weapon in his possession, but I have a hard time feeling sorry for two scumbags who violated someone’s sanctuary and stole their possessions. If I caught someone in my home that didn’t belong there, where my wife and babies sleep, I would end their lives without hesistation, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that I would not lose one bit of sleep over it. Ever.
Neither would you. I also know that you do not feel that all human life is priceless, because you see a lot of it that is almost without value where we work.
i’m not much of a fan of the American gun laws, but what this guy did was legal and it looks like he cought two criminals. though i certainly agree two thiefs don’t deserve to die, i fail to see why the guy who stopped them permanently should deserve to go to hell.
no for me on this one.
Of course he shouldn’t go to hell for shooting two thieves IN THE BACK over someone else’s property! I mean, he knew the police were on the way, and it wasn’t his house, and by going outside he’s only exposing himself to the very threat that he supposedly was protecting himself from, but still. Those darkies could have been dangerous, what with their crowbar and all. That’s true, they might have had a gun, but Horn would never be on the other end of it had he kept his ass in the house. He walked outside TO the threat with the intentions of shooting those guys. He definitely succeeded. In the audio you can hear that he didn’t even give them a chance to stop. And they didn’t threaten him, they turned and ran,only to be shot in the back by some lunatic with an itch to shoot something. But hey, no hell for him. It’s not like he was fighting animals or something. Because we all know, animals > illegal immigrants. No hell for you, sir. You are an honorable man. I’m sure the imaginary targets on the back of those mens shirts served you well.
If the Houston Cops weren’t such cowards and actually patrolled rough neighborhoods there wouldn’t have been anyone there to get shot. It’s actually about 90% the fault of the cops. It’s also the cops fault for not kicking those two out of the country when they previously caught them committing crimnal acts.
Realize that of course, in Texas, people used to get shot all the time for theft…there’s 300 years of tradition to get past. It’s only since the 1970′s that it actually became a Bad Thing to shoot a criminal…how the hell that happened I’ll never know. TAKE A BITE OUT OF CRIME, JUST SHOOT THE BASTARDS!!
Two illegal aliens from Columbia who happen to also be long-time criminals got shot, no loss AT ALL. We coddle criminals in the US, we have a revolving door justice system that DOESN’T WORK, as you can see because of those two illegal aliens STILL BEING HERE. Illegal aliens that are criminals ARE NOT equal to dogs…they are on a level far lower, somewhere around la cucaracha…so killing them isn’t a crime, it’s PEST CONTROL!
They didn’t deserve it, but this case doesn’t deserve hell. If he would have killed the guys after they murdered and stole from them people would have been singing his praises. Yes, he was way to trigger happy. But they knew something like that could happen when they chose to commit a crime, especially in Texas.
Strange. Nobody seems to think Joe Horn deserves Hell, despite killing two people.
Perhaps the victims put themselves in danger of someone shooting them?
Is that a mitigating factor?
:)
Of course Joe Horn deserves hell. You kill people, you are going to hell. Sorry, simple as that. Were his actions evil? I don’t know. If the crime had been worse than a robbery, I’m sure he would be a local hero. I can’t imagine what was going on in his head when he decided to take action into his own hands, though. Personally, I would have locked all my doors and ducked under the kitchen table and waited for police. I would not have went charging outside with a shot gun, especially not knowing if the theives were armed. I guess I would just have to agree with the dispatcher. Property isn’t worth killing anyone over. It wasn’t Joe’s property, he was not in danger, and as far as I can tell, the theives didn’t put anyone else but themselves in immediate danger. The thieves did not deserve to die. Jail time would have been appropriate.
So I’m going to hell in the event that I kill someone? Even if it is my job to blast them to shreds with the .50 caliber machine gun that I stand behind? Rephrase your statement, please. Not everyone who kills is going to hell.
I don’t want you as my neighbor. It wasn’t your stuff so you would hide under a table and lock the doors. You wouldn’t even try to get a good look at them to identify them. What would happen if you heard someone rape my wife or daughter when I wasn’t home?? You’d hide again. You are a coward who believes the law has a solution to these problems. In reality they rarely catch robbers, rapists or murderers. RARELY. When they are caught they are usually given a joke of a sentence that rarely causes reformation or even a guilty conscience. Really that is why they continue doing these things. True justice for a victim in any of those cases is to be able to protect themselves by any means. ANY MEANS. I definitely don’t want you next door. Anyone who kills isn’t going to hell. Your saying if someone tries to kill you, and you make the decision to not die helpless without a fight and kill them, that you are going to hell?? You moron. God hates criminals and loves courage. Joe Horn did the right thing. So you racial whiners know: most of my friends aren’t white and if I were him I’d like to feel like I wouldn’t get in trouble for doing the same thing, then I would, even if they were two white guys. A criminal is a criminal. A good man is a good man. We are only all of one race. The Human Race!!!
In one paragraph you call him Joe Hill. Why?
Also, what makes you think “September the First” is a reference to 9-11-01? Which, by the way, weren’t exactly terrorist bombings. Attacks yes, bombings, no.
The Castle Doctrine allows you to defend yourself on your own property, which means once they crossed into his YARD, they became shootable. Obviously the jury members were very tired of crime and extended the Castle Doctrine to include the neighbor’s property as well…
Florida also has the Castle Law, where about 8 years ago a man found a burglar in his home, shot at him inside & missed, then chased the guy 7 blocks and then shot him repeatedly behind another home. Jury said NOT GUILTY! Go figure. Americans are tired of criminals and are more willing than ever to exonerate someone who kills a career bad guy.
Way too ready to kill. Sounds like this guy had a bunch of built up anger. Was burgulary a common crime in his neighborhood??? Was he fed up?? He stepped over the line, hell? I am not sure. I am sure he will spend some time behind bars. Manslaughter? Murder? Crime of Passion? Torn on this one.
Happy New Year!
I think that he did the right thing in protecting his home and the home of others. I know it is bad to kill someone but I have seen what drugs can do to someone and here in los angeles CA. You hear about kids being raped killed and etc… Due to drug users such as this its only a matter of time before they ended up doing worst than what he did.
I think this guy feels like a lot of us. Our police canot protect us, the laws protect the criminals, the jails are too crowded. The kind of people who rob, steal and are in this country illegally should expect bad things to happen to them just like the bad things they perpetrate on our society. I am sick of it and I’m not going to take it anymore. If I have to protect myself or another innocent person from people like this I will. The last time I called the police because I had a neighbor getting robbed they got there 15 minutes later. I was very frustrated. Next time I’m stopping them myself. Good luck to you Mr. Horn. You are my Hero.
I love sarcasm.
I wonder how much crime we would have if this was the way we all handled crime in our community. I bet the crime would decrease. I know the criminals would decrease HA!
They commited a crime, probably lots of crimes. They got shot. WaaaaWaaa. Who cares. Good job Mr. Horn. Let’s quit acting like a lot of weak victims and start fighting back! I bet crime would slow way down. How many of us have been victims of crimes? How many os us wish that we could have been able to fight back? So let’s do it and see what happens.
Another poster boy for gun control.
How many people would have been killed at V. Tech if one of the students had been a licensed gun carrier? He had us trapped like rats and all we could do was scream and hide. Sometimes we have to protect ourselves. I’m not talking about nuts with guns. I’m talking about normal people who are willing to be trained and have enough sense to protect themselves and others. What do you think? THese crazy people who go out and kill multiple innocent people could maybe be stopped before they do so much damage.
Joe Horn is a hero and every state should be like Texas (not “Tehas”)!
Did I read PYSIH right? Every. Single. Human. Life. Is. Priceless? Jeffrey Dahmer? Ted Bundy?
You cannot be serious. There are people who walk on this earth who kill, torture, destroy lives, etc. These lives are not priceless. The world would be such a better place if these kind of people just dropped dead in their tracks. What are you thinking? Isn’t this site People you”ll see in hell? Did someone give you some kind of super Maui weed today? This kind of bleeding heart “love the criminal” shit you are pushing on us with this article makes me puke. So these poor criminals got shot because they were worthless pieces of shit. Oh, I’m sorry, they were “priceless” pieces of shit. So pysih dude, why don’t you have these people live with you and rehabilitate them with you kindness. Maybe you could drink cocoa with them and tell them how every one of them are “priceless” and they should just act better. Yeah, I’m sure that would work. They would probably quit acting badly if someone just told them how precious they were. I have to stop now, I just had some vomit come up in my throat.
You go notableedingheart!!!!
Ummmmm, hellooooo? Sarcasm anyone?
My daughter got shot in the face by 2 illegal mexicans trying to hijack her car. I wish Joe Horn would have been there with his shotgun.
Best. Post. Ever.
I think that if I saw someone break in to my neighbor’s house in front of my eyes, and then step onto my lawn and look at my house, I probably would be pretty scared. I might panic, to be honest with you. And yes, it’s hard to feel sorry for someone when they do that, regardless of their skin color. You certainly do take a risk like that when you make the decision to put yourself in that situation. I must say, I read these articles every day, and this is the first time I disagree with you guys. Usually it’s stuff about rapists and sadists and cold blooded murderers, and to compare this guy to those other people and say he deserves hell like the rest of them, I think that’s a bit of a stretch. Not to say that killing people over stuff is justified, but I think this is a reaction that a lot of people might have had as well in this case.
pysih are way out of line. Joe Horn is not a criminal. He is a brave man fighting criminals. I wish he had not had to shoot those guys because he has had all kinds of trouble from people like you. Are you for or against these people who prey on the innocent. That whole article made those jerks seem like poor misunderstood guys instead of the career criminals that they are. Were we supposed to deport them again like we’ve done multiple times already just to have them come back here again and maybe kill someone this time. I guess you would have called the police just to have them back on the street in 1 month and knowing where you lived. Just a thought.
he’s a hero
they got what they deserved
Ok, since it’s the new year and everything, I’ll let you in on a little secret.
It’s called sarcasm, and we’re quite delighted to see that the majority of our readers are bright enough to at least vote “no,” if not understand that Joe Horn is, indeed, a good man.
Admin, so you believe that the shootings were justified?
this guy is a hero!!
if we had more people like him we’d have less people like them!
end of story!
I think more than a few people need to learn the difference between ‘defense’ and ‘offense’.
It is reasonable to allow people to defend themselves against harm or perceived bodily harm on themselves or others. Killing someone who has murdered your daughter/sister while attempting to rob your house is reasonable.
Killing someone over possessions, especially possessions that are not your, but are your neighbors… is not reasonable.
If nobody is under threat of being killed unless they interrupt the break-in of a neighbor’s house while brandishing a gun, there is no real personal threat.
This person should have waited for the responding officers to arrive. He was told repeatedly by the 911 operator to NOT shoot anyone,or even go outside, as police had been dispatched. He was told that plain clothed officer were responding, and to not go outside, not take his gun outside. He disobeyed those instructions. Not only that, he put both his life, and the responding officers lives in danger because he refused to obey orders he was given by 911. He could have made that situation even worse, and could have himself been killed.
He could have been a semi-hero for immediately reporting a suspected break-in at his neighbor’s house. He is no hero for refusing to obey what the dispatcher told him, especially since no life was in danger except his own, and responding officers.
What he did goes against highly researched crime de-escalation techniques taught to both adults and children….
For example, for women, if someone tries to abduct you with your own car, you do not try to fight or kill the person, you take your purse… throw it one direction, and throw your car keys in the other… then take off running.
My children were taught in an LE class at their school that if an adult or older child bully tries to take their backpack, bike, etc., especially if there is a weapon involved, to NOT fight, but to try to remember as much as possible about the perp, and then call LE as soon as possible.
Losing personal possessions or your life are not worth having items stolen. Only being in personal physical danger is a moral reason for being violent against another person. One of those guys could have pulled out a gun, shot the guy… and then he would not be a pseudo-hero then either… he’d just be dead and another victim.
Possessions are never a good reason to kill other people. Self defense is. Putting yourself in danger does not qualify as self-defense.
The guy could just as easily have picked up a camera and documented exactly who was doing what until the LE arrived.
This case is interesting when compared with the case where the perps killed the sister/daughter (and then was beaten to death by family members), as well as the case where the father shotgunned the kid who’d threatened his kid, and due to threats and racist comments felt his family was threatened.
Defending property by killing people is not hero material.
Defending personal bodily attack is. Putting yourself in the line of possible bodily attack by defending your neighbor’s property does not qualify.
I have taught my boys over and over that no possession is worth defending if it will cost them their lives or result in bodily harm.
This guy is no hero. He is lucky, though. His idiotic actions could have cost him his life as well as the responding officers. He should be punished for not following the orders given to him by the agency he called ‘supposedly’ for help. His actions could have caused several people’s deaths, including his own.
c
maybe by his actions 1000′s of would be burglers are now thinking otherwise?
how many lives could that save?
I am not an advocate of just give them your stuff and they will go away. Think again about that. Lots of people have done that and been killed. How about keep your stuff and run like hell or fight back like hell. We are not talking about people who reason like you or I. We are talking about mean,desperate people who do not care most of the time if you are dead or alive. The more we passively give our stuff to these people the more crime we have to deal with. They are getting rewarded again and again and there is no reason to stop and every reason to escalate. If we are passive why not rape? Why not do whatever you want. Who is going to stop you as long as everyone is saying just go along with it and maybe you will escape with your life. Would you think twice about commiting a crime if you thought you may suffer for it? Quit buying this kind of talk and fight back. Do what you have to do to get rid of these people. Cars are weapons. Teeth are weapons. There are weapons all around us all the time that we can use. Remember the family that was murdered recently (two daughters raped and murdered, mom raped and murdered, dad hit in the head and tied up in the basement). These guys had only been robbers until that day they turned into rapists and murderers. No one fought back. They all tried to cooperate. Now almost all the family is dead. It does not work to passively let people have what they want. I say fight like hell because this might be the day these freaks decide to kick it up a notch and become violent.
Now dammit, you can’t type in sarcasm! It don’t work! :P
Sounds like to me that when he stepped outside, they started coming towards him.
My house was broken into twice this year, fortuantely no one was home at the time and these people did not harm our pets either. The second time, the thieves tripped the new alarm system and still ran off. Because the locks were picked, the perimeter looked secure and the police went away blaming a faulty alarm system. When I came home I descovered the usual stuff missing – my change jar and some more jewelry.
Now what if these people had not left, but instead waited for my arrival or I had walked in on them?????
While public officials may think what Mr. Horn did was wrong, I feel that Mr. Horn did the right thing. These criminals had a choice – they could have quickly surrendered to the guy with a shotgun, but instead it sounded like they came toward him! What if that someone was a woman with two children coming back from the grocery store instead of an armed citizen? We may have 3 unsolved homocides along with an unsolved burglary .
While no property is worth killing someone for, THEY decided to escalate the situation rather than surrender to an armed citizen.
I wish that Mr. Horn was my neighbor. After my van was stolen from my driveway it never drove the same again. Thieves don’t care about stuff like that
Everything I believe is in the article.
In addition:
Burglars in Texas know that they run the risk of being shot, unless they’re so high on whatever that they believe they’re in Canada, in which case they probably expect to be given a hospitable pat on the back and their choice of daughters to rape.
Joe Horn walked to the lawn, the burglars turned towards him and evidently made enough of a threatening gesture or motion that he felt threatened. You do not make a man with a shotgun feel threatened, especially when you’ve just committed an illegal act. If you do this, in Texas, the odds are that you’ll be shot.
If they had gotten down on the ground immediately, after seeing he held a shotgun, maybe they would still be alive. In jail, but alive.
As it is…there’s no shortage of salsa dancers in the world, and one fewer won’t hurt.
And as for the property rights issue:
You have a right to your personal property. You gave up a portion of your life for that property, and nobody should have the ability to come into your house and take that portion of your life.
Some items don’t take much of your life to obtain. Pencils, pens, small amounts of cash, credit cards and other assorted small items that cost a few dollars and take a few minutes of work to earn aren’t worth shooting someone over.
On the other hand, some items you’ve traded a good portion of your life to obtain, like a plasma television, or jewelry, or large amounts of cash. If you make 2000 a month, and someone comes along and walks off with that 2000 dollar plasma television, they’ve just stolen a month of your life.
I don’t know about you, but I value my time highly. Could someone convince you to work for them, for free, for a month? Maybe threaten to hurt you in order to get you to comply? Would you, in that case, feel justified in preemptively shooting that person?
I would. And I would go get a nice big bowl of cornflakes and eat it while standing over my “kill” and waiting for the cops to arrive.
Haha…I love it…. being a Texan a feel a little more safe :)
Amen, Admin.
so the outcome of the story is don’t break any laws in Texas unless you’re white.
Oh. and. lives. are. priceless. even. ted. and. jeffrey. they. just. will. rot. as. long. as. it. takes. duh!.
I don’t understand how there can be a state so rutheless that you can shoot anyone for just about any reason that you can pull out of your ass and make it legal. WTFever?!?
As far as the people robbing the house, obviously it wasn’t ok but shooting them in a deadly manner because of something that wasn’t directed towards you whatsoever?
Maybe he should’ve used a handgun and shot em in the leg or something so they suffer AND then get arrested and then receive as least medical treatment and get exported again. Come on…take a bite of the worm.
I feel for Fred…twice huh? You’d think to get a dog or something…
Glory…what exactly is an LE class? It sounds like something everyone should be able to take and it should be offered in schools along with DARE but for a younger age.
oh and my last thought: go-go dancing is sexier and a better workout than salsa
If I’m ever attacked I hope I don’t have brittany or GloryBug there to help me out.One would give them all my stuff and the other would call the police and watch the perps kill me. Of course, I’m sure they would hope those bad people would be caught and put in jail.
If you’re white and breaking into houses in Texas, you’re also quite likely to get shot.
If I’m walking through my neighborhood, with my legally-registered firearm at my side, and I happen to see an individual breaking into a neighbor’s car, I have every right to tell that person to stop. I have every right to point the gun at the person and tell him to freeze, that he’s under citizen’s arrest. If that person chooses to move towards me, or make any aggressive move, and I feel threatened, I am entirely within my rights to shoot that person.
And if you’re ready to use deadly force, to protect yourself or others, then make it deadly force. If you’re ever in a shooting situation, adrenaline will likely be making your aim chancy at best. Aiming at an arm or a leg makes it much more probable that you will miss completely and that the person you’re shooting at will come take that gun away from you and kill you with it.
Go-go dancing IS better than salsa, on any level.
True Dat.
Trigger happy – YES…Evil Human Being – NO…. When you hear the circumstances you really cannot say this was a purely evil act. If that was my house being robbed I would love to have Mr. Horn there… and I am sorry but “…if they were two white boys, he would have given them the opportunity to stop.” – I really hate, hate, hate, HATTTEEEEEE this excuse… it is not becasue they were hispanic that they were shot, they were shot because they were commiting a crime of breaking and entering, robbery, and if someone had been in their way I am sure aggravated assault would have been added to the list… I hate it when illegal citizens act like they have it soooo bad… if they did, they wouldn’t want to stay here illegally, don’t you think?? Mr. Horn probably shouldn’t be allowed to own a gun anymore but I don’t think he is all to terrible, however, I do love my active VIGILANTES…. sorry :)
Well I guess I won’t worry about getting shot. I don’t plan on rippin anyone off any time soon, but I guess if I do it I would try to be smart about it and not get caught.
The deadly force thing sounds good. It makes sense. I just want these POS to suffer that’s all. I’ve only ever shot a BB gun so I don’t know. Real guns scare the shit out of me really. I’ve heard they’re addicting.
Oh dear Beverly…don’t worry. If I was there’d I’d make sure you didn’t get hurt. oh wait… It depends.
oh yeah…at least we agree on the go-go dancing.
While I can’t support use of lethal force (particullarly as Mr. Horn wasn’t defending his own home or family) I can’t help but think that these guys kind of had it coming. You can’t go around breaking into houses, in Texas of all places, and expect it to end well. Further, there is no telling what sorts of shenanigans these two could have been up to with their false identities, illegal and undocumented immigration status, and past criminal records. I’m going out on a limb and guessing that if they broke into this house, they’d broken into others and sooner or later they could have hurt someone if they hadn’t already. With all of that being said, Mr. Horn could have gone for the knees. It would have been just as effective and he could have the pleasure of testifying against them and ensuring their deportation. Win, win.
If you remember from the news these guys had already been deported several times and had come right back into the U.S. Deporting does not work. If you shoot them in the knees they sue you and win and you pay their medical bills. lose/lose situation.
Not in Texas. As you can plainly see, you can murder someone trespassing on your property and you think shooting them in the knees would land you in jail or result in a judgement against the shooter? Maybe in other parts of the country, but not in Texas. I’m with you, deportation doesn’t work, but at least if you take out their knees, they’ll have a harder time crawling over the border.
Kind of hard to explain how two people could be shot in the back…. if they were supposedly approaching this gunman, as everyone keeps saying. Thestory admin posted says they were shot in the back.
I agree, Brittany, that he should have aimed at their legs if he just wanted to ‘stop’ them. Shooting them straight in the back is a severe way of ‘stopping’ someone- unless what you mean to do is to stop them from having a life. He was such a good shot, he certainly could have crippled them instead, if he was so hell-bent on shooting at something.
Something about this story is flakey. Shot in the back? And, on whose property? His, the neighbor’s, or in the street? Isn’t there some kind of consequence for deliberately doing what the 911 dispatcher told him NOT to? What is the point of even having 911 if you aren’t obligated to do what they tell you? Why’d he even call them? And why couldn’t he have just waited for the cops to arrive and do their job? Something is just off about this story… doesn’t wash.
I understand there are some pro-gun people here who like having anecdotes/excuses for having/using guns, but this is a very bad example to be using to support your beliefs.
The LE class I was talking about is a documentary by an ex LE, teaching children and others how to protect their lives in unconventional ways… not the basic ‘knee him in the groin, poke his eyes’ kind of thing. One of the few situations he recommends fighting someone with a gun is if they are trying to abduct you in a car…. he said stats show your chances of remaining alive are way better by fighting, as few abductees who get into a car end up alive. Another was if someone was trying to get you to another location, as both these situations show an intent to get you someplace they feel safer in killing you at.
Having a gun obviously makes some people feel like they have bigger balls- I’m not one of them.
The last time we went on vacation, the housesitter could not find their key, and ended up having to break into my house in order to feed my dogs and cats. Good thing my neighbor did not feel compelled to shoot her in the back as she left, carrying the karaoke machine I agreed to let her borrow. Instead, they called the police, and called me in Hawaii.
If even police are not allowed to ‘shoot first and ask questions later’, why should ordinary civilians be able to, just because they have a firearm?
I have no doubt that details will come out later that will change this story a bit.
Funny story- (well, not really) about 15 years ago I heard my neighbor beating and killing his dog with a chain inside his house. I called the police 2 times… waited, waited. Called the 3rd time and they said it was not a priority and they had no free units. I said, so if I had a gun and was going to kill someone, there’d be no units available? They showed up about 2 minutes later. Apparently the only word they heard was ‘gun’.
And, no, the dog did not live. And, no, the neighbor was not punished since I only heard him killing it, and didn’t see him killing it. They found the dead dog, plenty of guns, and some drugs. He did get in trouble for that.
I must be one of the few people who believes in allowing police to do the job my taxes are paying them to do. And who doesn’t think it’s worth risking my life over anything other than my children.
c
Lilmisssunshine- If I’m not mistaken, the gunman told 911 that the perps were black, not hispanic.
c
Ok, I’ve just surfed the news reports a little…
Says the dead men are Hispanic, yet, from listening to the 911 tape, the gunman says they are both black. Correct me if I heard this wrong.
They also say a plainsclothed officer was parked out front, who at one point felt the need to duck, as he didn’t know if the gunman would think he was the getaway driver, and kill him, too.
It bothers me that the gunman on the 911 tape gives a description of the clothing one of the perps was wearing, as well as the crowbar they broke the window with, yet identifies them both as being black. Even without a gun, I can usually tell the difference between a Hispanic person and a Black person.
From listening to the 911 tape, at no time does the gunman sound as if he feels threatened. He does say over and over that he is going to go outside and shoot them because he doesn’t want them to ‘get away’ with it, and he acknowledges that ONLY if he went outside would he be put in a position of facing any weapons/threat from them…but still disregards the 911 dispatcher ordering him not to go outside. He could have also killed the officer out front- at which point I doubt he’d have so many fans.
c
Lots of Hispanics look black, especially if they’re far enough away.
Brazilians, Columbians, Puerto Ricans…
Joe Horn thought they were black when he was on the phone.
Horray for Joe Horn!!!!
We love and support you here in Texas!
Criminals look out we will protect ourselves!
I mentioned earlier that my daughter was shot in the face in a hijack attempt. I had another daughter who while only 19 actually slept in the same house with ” a nice guy” who was a friend of a friend. This guy later murdered 1 man and 2 women and carved symbols in one of his victims stomach. My daughters are college educated professionals and live an upper middle class lifestyle and still have been subjected to crimes. I wanted to think that crime usually happens to people who hang out in dangerous areas and associate with people who are a little shady. Not true at all! I don;t know about you guys but this scares me. I don;t want to live my life in fear for myself and the people I love. I don’t know if arming citizens is the right answer or not, but I wish there was something that we could try because what we are doing right now by letting people out of jail early and not having enough police officers is not working. I have 2 brothers who are police officers and they tell me it is really difficult to get an arrest and conviction these days due to all the laws that protect the criminals. It is very frustrating for them as well as us. Does anyone out there have a clue as to what we have to do to turn around this trend and have the good people of this world better protected?
and to think I almost pulled the racist card.
I had a deep feeling that it had to do with that and it very well may have. Duh, it’s Texas
Anyways I agree with Glory on the fact that it seems wish washy. I don’t understand how he’s getting off by shooting them in the back.
And Admin, can you find out any more details on the location of where he shot them? Thanks
Emergency nurse: I think we could (now this is just a fantasy) build a gigantic prison on Antartica and send all the really bad people like the serial rapists and killers to be housed down there then we’d have more room for the “less”-violent offenders to keep them longer than say a few hours (hence the celebrity sentences ie: Lindsay and Paris)
Brittany, If only we could do that! Too many of our officials and rights activists would veto it I’m sure but wouldn’t that be a great solution.they used to have leper colonies on islands. How about penal ( ha, funny word) institutions on islands surround by hungry sharks?
didn’t they already try that once? something tells me it didn’t work out cause ya know they closed that one. or was it because it was haunted or something?
I’m young. I don’t know the full Alcatraz situation but I do know (well think I know) that it was an island surrounded by something.
Brittany,It closed in 1963 (before my time too) because it cost too much to run it and the prison was falling into disrepair. It was supposedly the most expensive prison to run in the U.S. I think maybe we should put them all on a nice warm island and have them all live in tent cities and make shure they can’t get off it. We could just drop off food from a plane and let them fight over it.
Australia was originally a penal colony. Believe me, if I had my druthers(folks from the south know what I’m saying:))we’d ship off everyone who committed a violent crime to a remote island or God awful diamond mine in Africa and put them to work. If you must be removed from the general population for the good of the public at large I feel that you should have to earn your keep. Make these folks live in a totally self sufficient work colony where they grow and prepare their own food, make their own clothes, manufacture their own sundries and fend for themselves. Obviously this would have to be secured and a staff hired to oversee operation, but that should be the only cost to the taxpayer. I don’t know about you guys, but I’m tired of paying my taxes just to have the money used for the upkeep of criminals that have been removed from society for their crimes. Anyway, I’m a little off topic and high on my soapbox so I’ll pipe down now.
Oh yeah, and if you burgle a stranger’s home, getting shot is the chance you take. These guys won’t be getting any sympathy from me regarding their demise. Even though I would have made different choices than Mr. Horn, I can’t fault him for taking the action that he did.
Sarah, I like you on your soapbox and besides you make a lot of sense. I know exactly what druthers mean because i am also from the south.
“… 38-year-old Miguel Antonio DeJesus, pictured here, and his childhood friend from Cali, Colombia, 30-year-old Diego Ortiz.” – COLOMBIAN
ok this young one who’s never lived outside of South Cali has NO idea what druthers are…someone explain? I feel left out!
I always thought that these asses should be the ones fighting the wars or at least put on the front line instead of good people getting blasted. But then again who knows if they’d even fight or just lose on purpose or something stupid like that. I know it’s a juvenille thought, but it’s just a thought.
Brittany, Druthers simply means I would rather. I think the old southern people just said druthers instead of I would rather. After awhile it became a saying ” If I had my druthers”
oh ok. Thanks. That’ll be the one thing I learn today =P
Nice spin. You should ask for a job at Fox News. This is a classic example of sensationalism at its finest. Joe Horn should not have killed those 2, but in my eyes, it’s 2 less bad guys on the street. The evidence is obvious and these 2 guys were illegals as well as thieves. Did they deserve to die? Probably not, but if there were more men like Joe Horn, there would be less men like Hernando Riascos Torres and Ortiz.
admin – Thank you, thank you. And yes, if the sarcasm wasn’t evident enough in the post for you, here it is in bold lettering:
WE AGREE WITH YOU.
Britney
I have a dog – black lab, so I susupect that the dog thought she had a new playmate.
I have a few people that I suspect do to the precision of the crime. Someone who could not pawn off anything because of their reputation and someone who needed cash quickly.
what does a dog and playmate have anything to do with this story? I’m confused.
All right admin, if you were being facetious you got me good.
Fred, What the hell are you talking about?
Ouch, admin….
While it seems most of the regular posters here tend to agree most of the time about these stories, this is one that I most definitely do not agree with.
Maybe it’s from listening to the 911 tape many times. At no time does he sound scared, frightened, threatened… or even mad/angry, for that matter. What he does sound like is very determined to shoot him some riff-raff, even when told not to by the 911 dispatcher, even when told it could put the plainclothed officers at risk.
Determined, yes. Threatened? Not at all.
It’s also odd that in all the various sites with 911 tape copies, he is quite clearly heard to be stating that he WAS going to KILL them. The odd part being that most news reports, as well as this blog, do not include that incriminating line on their offering of key 911 transcript soundbites.
I think these extreme ‘license to murder’ laws being pushed in almost every state lately, are a very, very bad idea. No checks or balances usually is a bad idea. Forget about wounding anyone and leaving potential witnesses… kill whoever you want and claim you felt threatened, or thought someone was going to steal your dvd player. Classic he said/she said… except the other party can’t say anything because they are dead.
And, the way I read it, this is great for all the women who love to ‘cry rape’ just cuz they’re mad at some dude for dumping them, or cuz they feel guilty about that great one-night-sexathon. (Cuz most rape allegations are fake, right?)
Forget about ‘crying rape’. Haul out your handgun, blast their face, and claim the pervert said he was going to rape you, and you felt threatened, and wanted to protect your personal property… which in this case would be your vagina. No more ‘he said/she said’. It will be clear the guy was a rapist, because why else would you have killed him?
It solves all those pesky problems of asshole parents at their children’s soccer or hockey games… once they appear to be ‘advancing’ on you or your little darlings, you can just blow them away.
And, while no doubt the NRA is openly pissing their pants for joy about the wacko laws they have been able to slide under the door, like any special interest group, they were only thinking about themselves and advancing their gun rights agenda…. but as far as what I’ve read, these laws cover any weapon you want to use, not just guns. And, you can’t have double-standard rules that only apply to strangers…. I’ll still have the right to knife my cheatin’ hubby to death if I’m feeling at all ‘threatened’. And if I kill him, everybody is going to have to take my word for it that I felt threatened, same as if he’d been a stranger. Mighty convenient for me, wink.
Well, if I liked guns and all that killing and all. Rolling my eyes, if you couldn’t guess.
It annoys me how objectivity and logic flies out the window the second a special interest group believes they’re gonna get their little deal-io.
So, yeah, I’d say we don’t ALL agree on this issue.
We might, however, all agree that the picture that the pic of Mr. ‘SFAQL’ accompanying this article looks as if he’s in need of some new ‘lederhosen’, and that he might need to put that beer stein down once in a while. Or get off the Octoberfest wagon once in a while.
c
Oh yeah Texas the evil Devil state becuz killers who go to prison get the death penalty and we look out for each other and their things? Yea right on.. You should give the guy a medal
Besides look at his cowboy hat … NOW TELL ME HES GOIN TO HELL.
This is one odd article for sure. Though I do sense some sarcastic moments in there, I just don’t buy that you weren’t calling him evil. Flip-flopper!
And if I’m wrong, you should really work on your sarcasm.
There are plenty of reasons to have a ‘beef’ (pun intended) with Texas.
When my friend was in military training there, she couldn’t get a decent vegetarian meal to save her life.
And, it appears many people who live there have some whack ideas about guns and lethal force to protect OTHER people’s property, not to mention iffy laws that allow people to SFAQL.
The death penalty? Eh, not so much. I’d guess if we took a big ‘majority rules’ kind of vote, most states would have an operating death penalty. Just because states don’t have it doesn’t mean the general pop doesn’t want it. I’m happy to live in Funny, Sunny California, where we also have a DP. Too bad we don’t enforce it, and that we allow DPI’s to live in Camp Luxury for decades before we get around to offing them.
Our DP might offset having a previously steroid-using, drug-abusing, sexually-harrassing ex-actor and non American-born, barely English speaking cro-magnin as a governor. Who invited a Nazi to his wedding. Maybe. Pretty sad when the only requirement to hold office is have been an actor. Off-topic, but I don’t think anyone should be able to hold a political office if they haven’t even taken a Political Science class in college.
The DP is not the main reason people criticize Texas. Or California.
c
Oh, and BrianB-
You aren’t the only one who was confused by the hint of sarcasm in the original blog story.
I, also, thought admin was being sarcastic, and was quite surprised, really, when his thread comments proved otherwise. And, to be honest, I was a little thrown off, because the comments/opinions (if not taken sarcastically) did not match the impression I’d gotten of the stance of the admmin after having read all the stories/threads posted previously.
It just goes to show that even if you agree on a lot of things with people, invariably there will be many other things you do not agree with.
Darn. I’m OCD, so I like everything black and white…. sniff. Grey confuses me.
LOL.
c
Glory Bug, I don’t agree with you but it’s probably because I was raised in the rural south and i’ts a different culture than yours. I got my first gun at age ten and hunted most of my life. Now I do not kill living thngs for sport and try to save injured animals. I have gone soft on innocent living things being killed. I am not soft however when to comes to protecting the innocent and good in this world. I do have a concealed carry license and do carry my gun. I will only use it if confronted with deadly force to protect myself or another human. A gun is my hands (I’m an excellent shot) is a good thing because I am calm and responsible. The police cannot be every where at once. That is why I protect myself.
Ah, Joe, Joe, Joe.
Don’t get me started. You don’t really want to know what I think about hunting.
I’ll say this- I think it’s about as ‘sporting’ as shooting people in the back.
c
Hunting is obviously no longer necessary. It does however fulfill several vital roles:
A) animal population control- What happens to an animal population that was supposed to exist in an environment where predators helped control population, and the predators are no longer there? With no checks in place it is far more gruesome than hunters harvesting a few animals. Starvation, disease, increased incidents of animal-caused traffic accidents, crop damage, etc..
B) hunters are generally conservation minded, as they want to protect the resource they enjoy. Funds from hunter’s licenses and fees also go back into the environment. Additional money is spent on conservation by groups like Pheasants Forever and Ducks Unlimited. Hunters give back far more than they take.
C) if you eat meat and are anti-hunting, just go to hell. No one that isn’t willing to kill and clean an animal should be allowed to eat one. If you ate at Burger King today and are anti-hunting you are a big, fat hypocrite.
Hunting is not about going out to kill. It’s about enjoying nature, it’s about sport, it’s about self-sufficiency, it’s about enjoying meat that wasn’t force fed steroids on some factory farm. God gave man dominion over the animals, and we should use the resource respectfully and wisely.
Um, like I said, you don’t want to know what I think about hunting.
And it shouldn’t surprise you that I have not eaten at Burger King today, or any other day for the last 23 years. I get the no-hypocrite tag, since I don’t eat meat, and dont wear leather.
I guess that’s the only reason I’m justified in having an opinion on hunting? Hmmm.
“It’s about enjoying nature, it’s about sport”
I enjoy my boys. I like playing games with them and watching them do sports. It doesn’t usually involve me killing them at any point.
We don’t need to agree on any points about hunting, since this is a blog about murderous people… which I’m also against.
c
wow, long time offline for me, sorry i missed the whole thread. indeed best thread ever imho.
nothing more to add which hasn’t been said already i guess.
First, I LIVE in Pasadena, grew up out here, and my dad was part of the civil rights groups that drove the KKK out of Pasadena.
Second, Joe Horn had every right to do what he did. My dry cleaners are the couple who own the house where all this started. These two were part of an organized crime gang who victimized immigrants..immigrants who, by nature of their history, do NOT trust the police, and 9 out of 10 times, will not report the crime. Yes, they had asked Joe to watch their house, like most of us ask our stay at home neighbors to do. Since they had, Joe’s butt is covered. The Castle Doctrine would NOT have applied here had they not..but since the law states that deadly force CAN be used to stop a felonious act..his butt would have been covered anyway.
Third..Joe did not make the decision that stuff was more important than people. The criminals did. This is Texas, ya’ll..we were our own Republic BEFORE we joined the states, so we’ve always had our own rules. Everyone here..brown, yellow, white, black…KNOWS that you take your life in your hands when you break the law. So Ms Storey saying her honey didn’t deserve what he got should consider that he, NOT MR HORN, made that decision when he broke into that house. And considering she profited off what he brought home in my eyes makes her an accessory after the fact, so boo hoo, shutup.
FOURTH…one body was found in HORNS YARD. The other one was shot there but made it halfway down the street before he collapsed. They were shot with SHOTGUNS, so even if Horn aimed at their knees (doubtful he would do that if these criminals were coming at him, like the evidence suggests) they would still have been hit in the torso. Do your homework, people. You can’t direct shotgun pellets the way you can a bullet..that’s the main reason we keep shotguns as defense weapons. If you aim in the general vicinity, you’re gonna hit ‘em.
FIFTH…there was an undercover Pasadena cop there who saw everything, a WITNESS to the entire fiasco. What I want to know, is why didn’t he/she STOP the crooks him/herself BEFORE all this happened?
Excuse me, texas has their own rules because you were a flimsy republic before the US took you on as a state?
If you don’t want to follow Federal rules, then please, leave the union! I would be Happy to see Texas go.
Joe Horn wanted to go shoot some black folks, and he did. And he should go to hell for it. What a loser.
I’ll wait until I read news reports that change the fact that two people were shot in the BACK.
Maybe they were ‘running at him’, ‘advancing’ on him, or trying to ‘attack’ Mr. SFAQL by running at him backwards?
Or unless he has a magic ‘u-turn’ gun, that could shoot someone in the back as they are approaching, I don’t think it matters much what kind of gun he used.
c
Go Michelle, I loved reading your post. It cheered me up. That’s the kind of people who need to write on the site. People who actually know something about the case. Cool, and thanks for the extra info.Oh, and the rest of us who have opinions, respectfully , of course.
WOW! After reading this post, I cannot believe the spin that was put on this case. Joe Horn is EVIL???
Stupid…check. Redneck, yep. Racist…probably.
However, “cold-blooded killer, with the instincts of a vicious, hungry, evil tiger”…I don’t know about that one, boys and girls. And that part about him wanting to wallow in blood up to his ankles is very dramatic, but wholly for effect. As far as Joe being one of the most devious criminal minds, I just don’t think that he is clever enough to think through all the angles on this one.
All in all the post was a nice piece of fluff, but I’m waving my Bull$hi+ flag on this one.
P.S. Don’t EVER try this at home, kiddies.
Joe Horn is as evil as a fluffy white kitten, playing in the sunshine with a bright yellow ball of yarn while puppies romp and play in the fields beyond.
I was hoping that the “vicious evil tiger” part would kind of hint that maybe, possibly, someone was being facetious.
Im glad there dead
i’m glad they’re dead too! i’m sick & tired of the escalating crime in this country. only after someone’s home has been broken into and innocent people have been hurt or killed do people whine and cry: “something needs to be done”, blah, blah.
Well, Joe DID something and i would do the same. no one knows exactly what’s in the mind of a criminal while they’re in the comission of a felony, nor would we know what they’re capable of doing in such a situation. but common sense dictates that if they’re crazy, desperate and/or stupid enough to engage in such profoundly wreckless behavior, then they’re capable of anything including the taking of innocent lives to save their own worthless hides.
although not an advocate of ‘go-git-em’ vigalanteism, i strongly support the use of WHATEVER FORCE NECESSARY to protect my homestead, and that includes my immediate neigborhood. No need to go out ‘hunting’ for criminals, that’s what the police are for. But when criminals seek you out and law enforcement is not present or too late in arriving, too bloody bad for the criminals. Yep, i would do the same. kill them in their tracks and that’s two less dangerous scumbags that we need to worry about… not too mention the HUGE savings in tax dollars! :)
Go Michelle
I agree it was the criminals who made the decision. They (criminals) felt that “stuff” was moe important than obeying the law.
And if the cop was close enough to see it all, why did he not step up to the plate? Ordinary citizens will feel threatened more quickly than most law enforcement personnel, but that is still NO excuse to disarm ordinary citizens.
When the criminals start to fear ordinary citizens, then the crime rate will go down. The police can not be everywhere and there are too many POS for each one to havethir own cop babysitting them.
Ask yourself this – if these two got away, might they return later to have the owners of the house open any safes or strong boxes? You know “home invasion”
I think Captain Joe Horn is a HERO! I have my concealed handgun license just for this reason. I am tired of criminals getting away with victimizing me, my family and friends. I will defend them with my very life. I have practiced shooting thousands of rounds. I understand the law. I am not a VICTIM! If an evil doer wants to rob me and violate the safety of my beautiful wife I will kill him or be killed fighting.
AMEN RANDY –
Hmm. I think I’ll say it again, since not one person on this site has addressed it, and not one news report has contradicted it yet—
“I’ll wait until I read news reports that change the fact that two people were shot in the BACK.
Maybe they were ‘running at him’, ‘advancing’ on him, or trying to ‘attack’ Mr. SFAQL by running at him backwards?
Or unless he has a magic ‘u-turn’ gun, that could shoot someone in the back as they are approaching, I don’t think it matters much what kind of gun he used.
c”
c
You know what? I guess you’re right. He should have let those two bastards get away so they could come to your house and rape and rob you. I say to hell with that! For me race is not the issue because I am black and proud of it. Those two men were not even Americans. Quanell X is a terrorist too who is funded by Libya. He answers only to Muammar al-Gaddafi. Screw him and his terrorist ideals. Shot through the back or not who cares? The bottom line is that your safety was worth it.
I am not concerned about the race issue or any other issue at this point in this story— other than the fact that it does not appear to be truthful.
If people think it’s cool for it to be legal to shoot people on theirs or anyone else’s property that they are not being personally threatened by, but because they think the person might be a thief… and if laws are passed to make that legal, more power to them.
What I do not like is that everyone who supports this type of vigilante action feels the need to distort what was reported by LE, which is that these two people were shot in the back, meaning they could hardly have been approaching Mr. Horn. If you don’t have a problem shooting people in the back, fine. Changing a story to fit an opinion you want to be vocal about isn’t the best way to get others to respect your opinion.
I am more afraid of neighbors who I think would recklessly and purposefully shoot people in the back just because they want to, than by the possibility that Libyan-funded terrorists are planning to rape and rob me after they steal a television from another neighbor’s house. I was under the silly impression that terrorists have more important things to do than breaking/entering/stealing. Funny how in the opinions here, the people have been described as black, mexican, illegals, and now Libyan terrorists.
If you think it’s fine to ignore LE and 911 who tell you that you are putting LE in danger and should stay the F in your house till they get there, and then shoot ‘iffy’ people on other people’s property or in the street-in the back, good for you. This story supports that belief.
However, if it makes you uneasy that people were shot in the back, then instead of changing the facts in this story to fit your opinion, just find a different story that better illustrates your opinion.
I have not found any report that states anything other than them being shot in the back, other than people ‘imaginging’ how the scenario went down, rather than how it really did.
Another thing I haven’t been able to piece together is how the two burglers had planned to get away. If they were removing items, especially any electronics in bags, where where they planning on stashing them? Was there a third person in the getaway car? Was there a getaway car? It’s been a while, and I can’t remember reading anything new about that. I thought they allegedly had been shot as they were making a break for it down the street.
I don’t think I’d be all that scared of burglers piling up their loot in someone’s front yard (or in a getaway vehicle), and then taking the time to come back, rape me, and leave with a whole lot more loot to haul out. Doesn’t leave much time for a clean getaway, y’know?
Be pro-gun. Be for SFAQL laws. But don’t change facts in a story in order to pump your views. Every story does not have to be ‘perfect’ in that respect.
c
I think you are right GloryBug in the respect that vigilante justice is not an acceptable solution to high crime. There are some people who are not quick enough in the head to make important decisions. Then again they will always be victims anyway you cut it. Tyrone for your case you just need to remember that shooting quickly will change your life forever quickly. The sad thing is that Joe Horn and the thieves families will have to live with this for the rest of their lives. Criminals are those same people that I was talking about that are usually not quick in the head. They will usually find a way to hang themselves soon enough. If they threaten you and your loved ones with your lives, then stop them with whatever means possible. Shoot for center of mass! In Texas when you take the CHL course you will learn that the gun is the last option that you should resort to. You must know and understand different levels of threats. Most importantly you must know and understand yourself. When I took the course their were some people in the class who did not pass for whatever reason. Most likely they were the ones that chose the option to shoot the perpetrator every time. Here is a real life situation to make you think. You are at the grocery store on a Saturday afternoon and you are in the parking lot. You notice a big rough biker looking dude walking quickly, almost jogging through the parking lot with a gun drawn. He walks up behind a grandma and rams the barrel into her back and with the other hand he reaches down and grabs her purse. The grandma then disappears behind a armored Wells Fargo truck giving you a clear view of the guy and his gun. Should you shoot him? You have a clear shot and you know you will not miss. What do you think? The answer is no. If you answered yes you would have missed that question on the test. In fact the granny was actually the famous Granny Crank. One of the largest drug dealers in the state. She is being arrested by an undercover cop. He is reaching for her purse because that is where she keeps her gun. They have been watching her for weeks and they saw that she let her guard down when she went grocery shopping. The bottom line is that you don’t have enough information and you had no way of knowing this. Keep this in mind.
Chris- I agree with many of your points.
The best defense is to be defensive. Or to be on the offensive.
I’m a bad, bad girl. I believe I have the right to walk home from where-ever I’m at without being killed or somesuch.
I do not believe I am ‘asking for it’ when I do things all men take for granted.
I have to admit, I might be lucky. Or the fact that I am fairly aware and defensive when I walk might be the reason. Who knows. I’ve been known to demand that people walking behind me walk on the other side of the street.
It’s sad that people think only women are victims of crime, when so many men under situations people would question the victim about (if they were female) get assaulted just the same.
c
This guy is a hero. People who break into people’s houses deserve to die.
This is my first time posting to this site, and I admittedly found it looking for a friends blog that seems to have gotten electronically “misplaced” so to speak. I was in Ohio visiting family actually when I heard the tape of this gentleman over the radio as my husband drove down the freeway towards Kent. What struck me then is what still sticks out to me now in this case, and much of which has been covered well by Glorybug. I believe in protecting yourself-with deadly force if necessary. I believe that these men deserve punishment and appreciate that their actions were part of a seemingly habitual pattern of a senseless criminal life. I understand how people can conjencture that the perpetrators could be men who could rape or kill or physically harms others. But…….and this is a big but….they were not doing anyone physical harm at the time of their deaths, and it’s downright eerie to hear another person premediatate over a 911 call their destruction. Mr. Horn did not sound in any way to me like he was afraid for his own life and that is the purpose of the Castle Doctrine-to allow an individual to protect their own life and the lives of those on their property. Yes, the Castle Doctrine allows this protection by allowing the private citizen to defend their property, but that is only the route, not the purpose. The purpose is to protect life and Mr. Horn was not protecting his life, he was protecting another person’s property.
This is an emotional subject and I have the deepest sympathies for those who have lost a friend or family member due to criminal violence, but respect for the law (and those designated to administer it like a 911 operator) is what separates criminals from the general populace. Committing a crime that ends in a life taken to prevent a crime where a life is not taken can’t be condoned in a functional society, no matter how it’s citizens feel about the situation.
I am willing to be that if the Texas State Legislature wanted the Castle Doctrine to be for the purpose of protecting life, as you’ve said, and not as protecting property, then they would have written it that way. Remember, most of the folks sitting in political office hold law degrees or have a huge legal backing to help them right these laws.
I only wish all 50 States had this law and I apologize to Mr. Horn that he was forced to endure laying on the ground and being arrested for carrying out his Constitutional right to bear arms and use them.
Good for Joe. Every state should have this law that Texas has. In American there are 1 out of 100 Americans in Prison or Jail. It is time we Americans take a stand.
At sometime the bad guys will get the message to stop committing crimes or be buried. If I could get Joes address I would start a fund raising campaign in his honor!!
There are so many things wrong with your account of the facts that I don’t know where to begin:
1. The Texas Penal Code specifically allows for the actions that Joe Horn took. See Texas Penal Code Sec. 9.43 – “Use of Deadly Force to Protect a Third Person’s Property.” Thus, if you don’t like the law, then move to a state like California where burglars can sue the victims for getting hurt while in comission of the crime.
2. A 911 operator’s advice is not binding on anyone. A 911 operator is concerned about one thing only: safety. A 911 operator will NEVER say, “Yes, go shoot the guy who is running away with your neighbor’s property” even though TX law allows for it. Thus, what’s the point in having a law that allows someone to use deadly force to protect a neighbor’s property if it could be nullified by a mere $11/hr 911 operator?
3. Joe Horn did not know that a plain clothes officer got to the scene. Do you assume every person you see in plain cloths is a cop? I don’t.
4. The only reason why this story even made headlines is because the criminals were a different skin color than Horn. If Horn were black or if the criminals were white, this would have never made headlines. Racism cannot be PRESUMED. The mere fact that the dead burgalrs were black and Horn was white isn’t proof of racism. If anything, it’s proof that Horn doesn’t take kindly to burglars.
5. I am sick of hearing minorites whine when one person who shares their skin color is shot or tazed while in the comission of a crime. It’s quite simple: If you don’t go burglarizing homes, you won’t get shot.
6. In this case, there are only two possible scenarios: You protect the citizen trying to protect his neighborhood from criminals or you protect criminals.
admin – 7. Joe Horn is eeeeeeeevilllll! If you were Jesse Jackson, you would agree with us. You’re not Jesse Jackson, so you’re obviously a racist.
I totally agree with the above post.. Thank you !
“The only reason why this story even made headlines is because the criminals were a different skin color than Horn. If Horn were black or if the criminals were white, this would have never made headlines. Racism cannot be PRESUMED. The mere fact that the dead burgalrs were black and Horn was white isn’t proof of racism. ”
I politely disagree. The controversy is not about race as much as some people on both sides keep trying to make it. The controversy is about how moral it is to kill people in order to protect a neighbor’s property that you were not requested to protect, when there is no threat of harm to a person.
“I am sick of hearing minorites whine when one person who shares their skin color is shot or tazed while in the comission of a crime.”
This, however, is a fine example of racist thoughts/opinions. Also, stereotyping.
Congratulations.
c
This guy should be congratulated and a medal pinned on him. He shot and killed two useless, illegal thieves. “jail time would be appropriate for them” is bulls***. Who pays for them in jail? I do – the legal, law abiding tax paying citizen. I say good for him !!! This is one of the problems in our society now – We cater to the illegals, drug dealers and all the others that break the law. We have laws in place, but these people don’t abide by them and have no respect for the people that do. I hope my neighbor would protect me and my belongings as I would for them.. Congrats Joe I would live next to you anytime…
Sam
Sam- I agree! It is time we take our country back! What good are laws that protect us if no one uses them. We have at least one gun for every family member, (children included, kept safely under lock). If the time came where are lives where in danger, we would at least have a chance. Criminals dont follow the law, so why is anyone concerned with what Joe Horn did. If your gonna preach about how evil Joe Horn is, preach also about the terrible life of crime the two loosers lived. ***Criminals beware if you come to my house, there will be no warning!****
Shoot those fuckers – take them down Texas style! Baby!
You steal someones hard earned goods – you die. It’s that simple.
And, therein lies at least one of the problems. Having at least one gun for every family member (is that really the best ratio?) is kind of useless when they are having to be kept unloaded and under lock and key just so your children don’t accidentally kill each other)….. unless you aren’t actually in danger, and instead just decide that you are going to kill what looks to you like illegal immigrants robbing someone ELSE’s house. In that case, you’ll have time to unlock the cabinet, choose which gun you decide is a good robber-killing gun for that day, load it up, and then call 911 to announce you plan on killing said burglers.
Hardly an effective way to curb crime.
I do believe the constitution gives citizens the right to bear arms. I don’t like twisty interpretation or revisionist history, however. This being the same document that doesn’t allow that women are created as equally as anyone else. I’m not going to try to pretend it was written with that spirit in mind, and I’m not going to pretend what was written regarding bearing arms has anything to do with this case.
And I’ll just bide my time until someone takes Mr. Horn’s actions to heart and does the same to someone they knew- and wanted dead. Shoot them, throw a VCR next to them, and claim you were just defending property.
If you have a beef with illegal immigrants- address it legally through the courts. There’s no point in even having a police force at all if all us untrained people can take the law into our own hands. I understand this story appeals to a certain desire for punishment/revenge, but there is a danger in allowing the logic to get too twisty/stretchy. And for anyone with an NRA-pushing agenda- it would seem obvious that this case makes for a lousy poster-boy.
I understand frustration with slow police response times. I once called both the SPCA and the Police several times within a few minutes period, telling them that I could HEAR my neighbor beating his dog to death, with no response. Once I called 911 and told them that if they didn’t show up immediately, ‘someone who had a gun’ might handle the matter before they got there. Surprise, surprise- they showed up 2 minutes later. Because here, when you call 911 and mention guns or shooting, the police come. Too late for the dog- but that’s my point.
I have both read and heard the 911 recordings of this man. He clearly intended to kill SOMEONE. Working to create a faster response time to crimes in progress would eliminate these types of iffy situations to occur. Given the amount of time Mr. Horn was on the phone with 911, especially once he informed them he planned to kill some people, the real crime is that police response was not quick enough to have prevented it, and handle it in a legal manner.
I live in a county island now. That means that although we CAN call 911, it is quicker and more efficient to call the local sheriff instead of the city police. We have at least one officer patrolling/on call 24/7. Not being held up by having to hand out driving tickets, etc., so we have an almost immediate response time. Not surprisingly, we also have a negligent amount of crime compared to non-city islands only blocks away who can only call 911- city police. Which means I have no need to worry who in my neighborhood has guns- because the sheriff will no doubt arrive before anyone feels the need to use them.
It’s fun to cheer and applaud a vigilante, but it’s more intelligent to find logical solutions to situations that create vigilantes.
c
Mr. Horn can be my neighbor anytime.
Hell, I won’t need a gun. He can do it all.
You want solutions? I got solutions, 16 of them in a clip. I’ll offer solutions on the “solutions to crime” webpage. But here on PYSIH it’s all about evil, YKWIM –
The webpage name speaks for itself. That’s why I’m here.
Sure, later on I’ll read “how to live in peace”, but that’s saved for another blog.
Yes, I do agree that the cops came too late. Also, I find it hard to understand why they weren’t in uniform with sirens blazing.
I guess “find logical solutions to situations” would work if criminals were logical but their not. THey dont care about us, and we shouldn’t care about them either. They are selfish, and would rob from the very people trying to help them, much like illegal aliens. Unless you live in an area where illegals are a problem, I dont think you would understand the affect it has on our every day life. I live in Houston, so it its a big problem for me. I cant get my child in Pre-k because she speaks english, however, the pre-k classes are reserved for non-english speaking children. It makes no sense. I could go on….
Oh Penny,
I remember posting about this guy, yes.
You know Penny – I go through “hell” from 9 to 5 every day.
I want to speak for myself here in saying what I’m about to say.
I have to endure the rat-race which entails a round trip of bumper-to-bumper traffic.
But before then, I have to wake-up early enough to be punctual.
At my job, the bigwigs have superiority complexes and are condescending.
Promotions and bonuses are only giving to the privileged.
I have to kiss a lot of ass in order to have a decent shake at things.
Oh and not to mention I work oodles of overtime which means spending time away from family and friends. I work blood, sweat and tears, day in and day out to forge a decent living.
Now, with that said, if I decide to purchase an item with my hard earned cash and an asshole attempts to lift it from me, he/she dies. It’s that simple. I don’t care what color he/she is. It’s not about race with me.
A thief is a thief whether black, white, blue, red, green, yellow, etc.
Unfortunately, in my city we DO NOT have the ‘castle law’.
But if we did, you’d hear about a lot of dead fuckers.
I agree turtle, a theif is a theif! No matter what color! My point on illegals was only that I dont mind helping those in need, but they have to inturn give back, and try to make our country better, and not like the one they just left.
ah-hem………illegal ALIENS.
Jor Horn is a great man, and a true American. It is time law abiding citizens became more protective of their rights and property. There is NO doubt that these criminals would have happily raped the vietnamese woman and killed the man if they had been home. I only hope there are many, many more Joe Horns out there. We have a castle law in Missouri, that also extends weapons rights to our cars, you can certainly believe I have prepared and readied myself to stop absolute evil in its place.
Penny I live in Central California, and my ex was a produce broker. I’d guess that I might know a bit about the ‘illegals’ you’re talking about.
Following the seasons, the migrant workers travel wherever the produce is. Contrary to popular opinion, most of them DO have jobs. The kind of jobs that have 12-16 hour days, no housing other than ramshackle sheds with no water or toilets. The kind of job that pays under the table at less than half of the minimum wage, with no benefits.
If people don’t want ‘illegals’ here, then the farmers should stop hiring them illegally- they should buck up and pay American citizens minimum wage at least, to do the work. And the average Joe shouldn’t them complain because a head of lettuce ends up costing .10 more a head. Problem is, most Americans have something against living in temp quarters with no facilities.
I’m not fond of two-faced politicians who say they are against illegal immigration- but do nothing to stop the main cause—– that farmers are purposefully hiring them at subhuman wages. And then turn around and hire one to nanny their bratty kids, spit-shine their shoes, mow-and-blow their yards, and buff their dogs.
The problem with cracking down on illegals at least where I live, is that farmers can’t hang with paying decent wages and consumers refuse to pay decent prices for products. So- eventually all our farming will be done in other countries thanks to NAFTA.
I am actually pretty much anti-illegal or even legal immigration. There’s a reason we have borders. I’m not against temp residence with a work permit- for anyone from any country, instead of just the one country everybody likes to hate. And when it expires, they go home. Other countries seem to manage doing that just fine.
Admin- I’m a little confused about your assertation that these particular illegals would have happily raped a woman if she’d just been home. Are there some stats I don’t know about that prove that illegals rape women any more often than the neighbor who lived across the street from her might? Or was your implication that Vietnamese women get raped more frequently than other women? Do illegals tend to rape more women and kill more men in the commission of a crime than American criminals do? This wasn’t your best argument, sorry to say.
I don’t like crime. I don’t like illegal immigration. But I prefer not to try to link the two subjects without solid statistics. And, if you believe the two are not just casually linked, you should definitely be for the prosecution of any American citizen who hires an illegal alien in order to cut costs and avoid paying decent wages and benefits, as well as people who employ them in their homes and somehow fail to report those wages.
Follow the money. 99% of the time when there’s a problem, following the money trail will pinpoint the source.
c
Glory- I live in my own real world. I follow the newa, but their is a clear distinction between the rest of the world, and my small piece of it. I don’t take on all of the worlds problems as my own, because frankly I dont care enough about anyone else but my own family. That is just being honest. In saying that, I am directly affected by anyone that chooses to come to america and and treat it like we are in Mexico. It makes me hate living here. Criminals don’t care about us, and I don’t care about them. If I had to, I ‘d shoot them to protect myself, family, and neighboors. If everyone else gets to choose wich laws they want to follow, why couldn’t Joe Horn. Before anyone wants to point out how Horn bent the law to stop a couple of jerks that served no good purpose in life, try prosecuting all the illegals first. This is our country, our ansestors were killed fighting for our freedoms, and we are prosecuting our own while giving a free pass to the Mexicans. I am sick of it, and beleive me, I am happy that Horn did what he did, if our goverment only wants to stand up for the rights of illegals, and “minorities” we will do it for ourselves.
Penny I think I understand. I will read Glory’s post again.
You know,
I have nothing against Mexicans, or anyone for that matter.
But I do not like anyone that comes to America illegally.
Imagine this scenario (that has happened many times):
An illegal gets in a car and is drunk behind the wheel. They drive straight into your loved one, killing them instantly. The illegal lives and gets deported to their home country while you are left to bury your dead. This plays in my mind over and over again and I hate it.
Turtle- I don’t disagree with Glory’s views, I just don’t have time to fix the whole world’s problems. You will see much more of this happening. Smart common sense people are starting to take their lives into their own hands because we feel as though goverment isn’t concerned with us. (us being hard working, law abiding citizens of all races) I vote, but now days media has us wondering if our vote even counts. We can’t fix the problems of the world, but we can stop someone from hurting us and our loved ones. What else is expected of us? It is frustrating, and people can call Horn a racist, but 8 out of 10 of the people breaking into our homes arent white, it was just bad odds for the browns! I myself am not a rasist, but I’m not an idiot either. I know what is going on where I live, and there aren’t large groups of white people walking the streets at night in gang attire. I am sure there are some, but I refer to the majority. In closing, the goverment is not doing a good job of detouring criminals, so people like Joe Horn will do it for them
Excuse me, chickadee, but why do you keep saying “Mexicans” and talking shit as if all illegal immigrants are Mexican? It has been stated that the thieves in question are Colombian. There IS a difference believe it or not. Not all brown people are Mexican. Please get the fuck off of your high horse.
No I am not Mexican. But I can tell you to go fuck yourself for being a racist shit.
Oh and for the record, I am completely against illegal immigration, and I think that most of the time it is a bullshit excuse and a bad way of going about things.
But still… fuck you. And kiss my semi-brown, mixed race ass.
Don’t steal other people’s things and you won’t get shot by the crazy neighbor. It’s that fucking simple. I Don’t think he deserves hell, he was protecting his neighborhood and making an example of two men, showing that people can’t just get away with that shit.
Gotta say…. I’m from Texas and we Texans take that law very seriously. If I saw a piece of shit like this guy robbing a house right in front of me and then he proceeded to come into my yard, I would have shot him too. That’s a right I have as being a homeowner in Texas. Too bad for the rest of you who have to sit back and watch worthless people come and take the things that you’ve worked so hard for. I won’t.
Joe Horn did not act within the rights set forth in the castle doctrine, and he did not act as a man with decency and judgement. And who am I? I’m a pro-NRA, white anglo saxon protestant (raised Lutheran) man with a nasty hidden Calvinist streak who is a Republican conservative, rather aggressive, I admit, and from an industrial town (meaning, outside Detroit). And you thought that I was a bleeding heart liberal, didn’t you? Joe Horn is a murderer. This whole incident is bad news, bad news, bad news.
Hey moron, why don’t you take a closer look at Texas Penal Code Sec. 9.43(1) sometime before you start running your ignorant mouth. Joe Horn was completely in his rights to blast these guys. The law specifically allows for him to do what he did. But, of course, stupid internet people just ramble on about shit they know nothing about.
It’s pretty simple concept: You go around burglarizing and terrorizing homes in TX, then you assume the risk that you are going to get blasted. I protect homeowners, not worthless burglar scum who are illegal immigrants.
1. Reckless disregard of the instructions of a public safety officer constitutes a crime. Specifically: Sec. 38.03
He intentionally prevents or obstructs a person he knows is a peace officer or a person acting in a peace officer’s presence and at his direction from effecting an arrest, search or transportation of the actor or another by using force against the peace officer or another
He shot both actors in this case in the back, preventing them from being detained. That’s a felony if they’d chosen to pursue it, but the DA in the case came forward and specifically said that obtaining a conviction would be difficult. Not out of legal code, but from a jury’s perspective. I think the reasonable argument would be Mr Horn would be more sympathetic than two criminals with long rap sheets.
2. You are correct in your citation, but his conduct was specifically contravened by a government officer, and he could be found guilty of a misdemeanor under Sec 38.15, Interference with public duties of (1) a peace officer…
I think in the end, he was exonerated because functionally, he was following the law, even if he did so in contravention of a direct request of someone he did not respect and chose to countermand.
Does he deserve hell? I think he’s repentant now. I think when faced with the choices he made, he’s even stated publicly he wishes he had not done it. I respect that.
One more thing: classify Joe Horn as “bungler”.
David – Wake up and smell the coffee. And if you are going to comment on Texas law maybe you should be a little better informed. Mr. Horn was still within his legal rights to shoot these men as was attested to by his Grand Jury no bill…good news, good news, good news.
David- I agree but that being said the laws need to change. Joe Horn may have shot illegally, but in my opinion he was morally right. I consider him a vigilante killer and support his actions.
It’s funny….if these guys had killed someone, their pictures would be on this site stating that they should go to hell. Someone kills them BEFORE they go that far, and he should go to hell. Odd.
Not everyone deserves to live.
Agreed. Simply said.
Touche’
admin – I have most often agreed with your opinions of the slime balls you write about. HOWEVER, I take exception to your opinion of Mr. Horn and TEXAS. Just because our state executes justice against CRIMINALS it does not make TEXAS and evil state. You sir are a fruit loop!!!
admin – Sarcasm. Learn what it means, then read the article again. Then laugh!
admin – from the many many comments posted in response to your article I can see I was not the only one who missed your “sarcasm”. Maybe you should have been a little clearer about which side you are on. This was the first time I ever had any doubts about your stand. Try a little less sarcasm next time.
admin – Oh come ON. It’s obvious. OBVIOUS I tell you. The magazines/meter reading phrase?
Victory for Joe Horn today! Not indicting Horn sent a message to all criminals that crime will get them killed. Thank you Mr.Horn.
Penny, I’m happy about this one.
We called this one and look, justice prevailed. It goes to show you that if you take something that doesn’t belong to you, you die. It’s that simple.
Joe if you’re reading this, congrats.
Please be my neighbor?
86% of people who voted on our local news station here in Houston — ABC news — voted that they were satisfied that Joe Horn did not get indicted.
We have home invasions which turn into murders every two weeks in Houston.. we have at least 2-4 murders per week in Houston and the surrounding suburbs. We are fed up with it.
Joe Horn saw these perps break into his neighbors house — break a window — he called 911 — then saw the guys trying to flee the scene. He told them to stop or he’d shoot and then did NOT stop, so he shot his gun. He didn’t know whether these two creeps had murdered someone in the residence, he did not know whether they were armed & dangerous.. remember it was broad daylight and the neighborhood had kids and families living in it.
I guess he could have let them get away and hope they didn’t murder anyone in their hasty escape.. He gave them the chance to stop before he shot them and they did NOT heed his warning.
Too bad, so sad.
Bad guys: -2 / Good Guys: +1
After Katrina happened, Houston got invaded and our crime rate went up 27%… we are sick of it.
The grand jury did the right thing, in accordance to the laws in Texas.
I agree. I live in San Antonio and we too were invaded after Katrina. I would give praise to anyone who did what Joe Horn did. Why should anyone sit back and watch crooked bastards rob someone who has worked hard for what they have. I would have shot the pieces of shit too.
I’m not paying attention but did anyone post an update?
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5278638&page=1
“Now, he could have been wrong. These two people could have just been there to check the meter. They could have been lost. They could have been there to sell magazine subscriptions.”
They were smashing the windows, moron!! Joe was sitting on his couch when he heard the breaking glass. Do meter readers and magazine salesmen usually smash windows with a crowbar???
admin – If meter readers haven’t been trained properly, then yes, they have been known to smash windows with a variety of implements.
Right.. They busted out TWO windows… and then Horn saw them climb out with a pillow case full of crap. It was obvious they weren’t meter readers, but nice try.
Unless Quannel X wants to say that the only thing that minorities are good at is theft, drug-dealing & robbery, he should shut up & sit down. This was never a RACE issue, it was an issue about CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.
I hope Bill O’Reily or Shaun Hannity hires Joe Horn as a home security guard! He might be able to solve the papparazzi problem in California with a Street Sweeper!!
The liberals have de-nutted our justice system…they’ve made the Death Penalty take forever, so it’s really not a deterrent like it would be if the justice was Swift & Unyeilding…so now the citizens are taking back their streets. IT’S ABOUT TIME!!! What we need is more Dirty Harry-type cops & more Death Wish/Charles Bronson types!! THANK YOU JOE HORN!!!
I thought about Joe Horn while laying in bed last Friday night.
My house was broken into on the fourth of July. After the police left and the crime scene unit left and the locksmith left, I laid there until about 4 am. furious. I have never been robbed in all my 15 years of being on my own. My dad was robbed when I was about 12 or so and I don’t remember ever seeing or feeling the way I felt on July 4th.
After my divorce, I got rid of everything that belonged to my ex-husband and I as a couple, and replaced it, slowly but surely, with my hard earned money. I’m a single mom of three kids and get no child support and I don’t live off the system. For someone to come in MY house while I wasn’t there and rummage through MY shit was infuriating!
Here it is Wednesday and I still have a hard time making eye contact with ANYONE. I’m so mad at this! Had I been there, I swear I would have smashed the guys head in with the baseball bat that used to be behind my front door (it was my bat in middle school when I played softball) but the little bastards took it.
It leaves me in a situation where I’m affraid to sleep at night. Every noise I hear, I’m on my tippy-toes, always looking in on my kids to make sure they’re ok and looking out the window to make sure my car is still there.
Joe Horn is a saint to have the balls to do what he did. Weather he was in harms way or in any danger or not, I think he had every moral right to blow those fuckers away. I’m glad he did it!
It’s just a shame he wasn’t MY next door neighbor.
I need to comment on this one.
I was at work one day and came home to find that someone had backed a moving van up to my home. They started at 1:00 in the afternoon and left around 8:00 that night. 7 hours to empty everything, literally everything including underwear and toothbrushes, out of our home. It was mind boggling how they took my daughter bikes and power wheels, care bears, toy horses, refrigerator, stove, beds, clothes and toiletries. Even the dishes were gone.
Now, I spent many years filling that home with those items and fond memories. Had I come home and found them in the house or the driveway, guess what?
I’m licensed to Carry Concealed and I do carry concealed. The cousins would have been screaming. All 13 rounds and I would have reloaded repeatedly.
Call me evil if you want, but if you steal your do not have the right to breathe in the world I live in. When you break into a home and steal, you are stealing the security of my family, you are stealing my daughters’ food, you are stealing my families memories.
The only thing this man did wrong was not shoot them on their way into the house. A garden hose will rinse away blood, nothing can replace your families security once it’s violated.
While i personally do not think that theft should be punishable by death, i do think if we chopped off their hands they would have a hard time stealing ever again. And having no hands would be a good crime deterrent…as would death…but death is a little extreme for me.
Bunch of sissies. Joe Horn is a Patriot for killing this parasites. He deserves a parade in his honor, not to go to hell. You cowards are so pathetic; you would let your mothers, sisters and women be raped in front of your eyes while you were castrated and you wouldn’t do anything. So pathetic and weak, you are.
Joe Horn is my hero. But I feel sorry for him now that he’s a known killer, he has no privacy. If only he were a Ninja.
Joe Horn is a murdering coward.
I agree those men are scumbags but they didnt deserve to die. Apparently, Joe Horn thought they did. Only in Texas can a man declare himself judge, jury, and executioner and get away with it. I heard the conversation. He wanted to kill those guys. He was hoping the 911 operator would tell him to go ahead and do it but he was going to do it anyway.
Yes, in Texas we are tired of criminals having more rights than law abiding citizens. Who cares if these two are dead? Were they contributing anything posetive to this world, or causing more harm. I guessing these two loosers were perfect dads too.
Criminals don’t have more rights than law-abiding citizens. Equality before the law.
Even though these two were obviously breaking the law, Joe Horn does not have a right to take the law into his own hands. Ian Dotson is quite correct in his assessment of the situation. Joe Horn wanted to kill these men. He is a murderer, he is a coward, and he is no better than a crack whore or a baby raper.
He has no honor. He hides behind a lie he calls enforcing the law.
These scumbags were so blatant they committed their crime in broad daylight… Do you think they were done with that house? Oh come on… Every state needs to deal with this like Texas does…
Shoot first….
Let God sort ‘em out later…
And remember, it’s cheaper to carry them by six than to judge them by 12….
If thats your logic Midwist, then I guess every time you speed or cheat your taxes a little, then your a baby rapin crack whore. Yes he intended to shoot and kill them, duh. You can only push so long before people push back, don’t cry when you fall.
Just for the record and not that it matters, both men were black (Afro Latino descent). I only mention that because of the confusion and because of the size of the men. Both were above average stature.
There were 3 shots fired from Joes shotgun at a distance of 7 to 15 feet resulting in 2 dead perps.
Joe went into his front yard, they were running twords him. He shouts out “Move, you’re dead.” They stop and turn and look at each other. Then continue twords him, about 12ft Joe sholders the shotgun and begins to shoot just as Torres is turning twords the street, Joe shoots him in the side with an exit wounds to the back.Torres is mortaly wounded, crosses the street and dies beside a sleigh and a Santa cow.
“The report said that Torres died of shotgun wounds to his torso and upper left extremity. Wallace could not confirm whether the men were shot in the back, saying the autopsy report only indicated they were shot in the torso.”
After shooting Torres, Joe swings the shotgun twords Ortiz and shoots him in the back and then the neck as he was trying to run the other way. Best I can figure was, as joe is cocking his 2nd round and swinging the barrel, that was the time Ortiz got turned around runing the other way. And it was to late for Ortiz , joe was already commited to the shot. The third one, well , what the hell he is still running and he already shot him once.
“According to a final ruling, Ortiz died of shotgun wounds to his neck and torso,”
Mr. Horn had a mental and physical colapse over the shooting and has gone into seclusion even before a death threat was left on an answering machine in the Harris County district attorney’s office. He currently is in fear for his life from haters who claim Joe is a rasist murder and deserves to die.
Hernando Torres, a k a Miguel Antonio DeJesus, Was a Ass Hat dirtbag criminal, who preyed on other hard working illegals and it was a fitting end for him to die beside a sleigh and a Santa cow with a sign, “Have a Moo-ry Christmas,”
Ive said it before and ill say it again. If someone has a gun pointed at you and says, “stop or ill shoot.” GOD DAMN IT–STOP!!!
These two dead dumb asses kept moving forward. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Yippie, someone brought our Hero Mr Horn to the recent comment list. Gives me another chance to thank him for getting rid of a couple of loosers who don’t deserve the air they were breathing!
HOORAY Penny!
Wish I could wear a big T-shirt with is pic on the front.
and on the back of the tee would be a shotgun.
I am sure you can have that made! I’d buy one!
Put me down for one, too.
I read that Horn doesn’t get out much because he is afraid for his life. He has become a hermit. That makes me sad.
You know, even if he were convicted of crime, Bush would pardon him.
Maybe this would have been a better alternative?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h8Us09hegezW-ikAyWH7_Tuo4hKAD950SCC00
I think Joe Horn could have come up with a more classy way to handle the situation… Like maybe this:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h8Us09hegezW-ikAyWH7_Tuo4hKAD950SCC00
Lol….fancy being charged with assulting someone with fox urine.
You know when he’s sitting in his jail cell and the inmates are asking each other, ‘what ya in for?’ Some can answer, ‘murder,’ but not this guy…he is gonna sound so tough when he pipes up with,’death by fox urine.’
I would have hit the bastards with a few shit bombs too if it was my house!
This just occured to me: how did he get the fox to urinate into the specimen jar lol?
Im getting a visual now…
I agree with Danger Zone, getting robbed takes something from a family that you can’t ever get back. Yeah, you can get a new sofa but you can’t a new sofa that has your 2 year’s old chocolate handprint on a cushion when they are now 10. There are so many memories that are sacred that no one should have the right to take. This is our country and it is time to take it back. If you are an illegal and you contribute I have no problem with that, I understand that you are just trying to better your family like I am trying to better mine, but if you break the law; whether it be drugs, murder, or burglary, the consequences for you should be terrible. Illegals that have used our country shouldn’t if anything have a little bit more respect for our people and our country.
Thank God for Joe Horn. It is legal in Texas to shoot on someone else’s property if they are breaking in. Also, since, they were shot on his property, that is legal too, even if they are shot in the back. Also, he probably scared off Fred Phelps and his clan from protesting in Texas, which they have not done since 2006, despite the fact they have made threats of doing that.
Ah…god ole Joe Horn. I was talking about him just last night. We have an old fella here in Oz who blew away the dumb ass that broke into his house.
The old fella was in his seventies and was protecting his sick wife. He yelled out several warnings to the intruder that he had a gun and was gonna use it and the stupid fuck kept coming. So he got shot, lol. There was talk of the home owner being charged, but gladly he wont be.
It made me think of Joe here…
We had a guy here in Georgia that shot a robber that was breaking into his car and others in a parking lot. He yelled a warning but the guy was trying to get into the victim’s car so he shot him. The victim did get charged because the man was not threatening bodily harm. While searching the prep before taking him to the morgue they found a concealed weapon in his waistband and he had just gotten out of jail for something but yet the innocent person that was trying to protect his property got charged. Ridiculous!
On September 11, 2008, as I was preparing to leave town for Hurricane Ike, I loaded up car and perpared my children for the trip. After returning home, I discovered that my apartment had been broken into. You should have seen the look on my kids faces as they asked, “mom where is my”t.v, my radio, my PS2 and games, my bike, and the list goes on. They had taken 2 DVD players, a VCR, a GE microwave, a crock pot, Fry Daddy Deep Fryer, pictures off the walls, several purses, desktop computer and printer, bath towels, the comforter off my bed, tissue, water, cleaning supplies, busted open my file cabinet, and the List Goes On, beleive it or not. So I say I’m not mad at Mr. Horn. I work had eveyday to get what I have,and to keep my kids comfortable at home. Then to have someone to just come in and take it like it was owed to them was just wrong. Yes, I know who did it but the cops could not do anything without real proof. So once again I say, I’m not mad at Mr. Horn for what he did. I just wished he was a round when my stuff was been taken. And that statement comes from the heart.
I feel for what happened to you and your family. Some people are beyond low to do something like that to someone in that type of a situation. Bad enough you think you are going to lose your home, then you finally get home to that crap. Geez. My area was evacuated, for a short time in the last bout of fires. I cannot imagine coming home to that garbage.
I would vote someone who did something like that to hell in a heartbeat.
I am sorry that people are that fucked, A victim as well. From the heart. How awful. Damn…
Im on Joe Horn’s side. If someone is STEALING something (bad) then someone needs to stop them and find out what their IQ is… rightt… I will shoot first and ask questions later.. if we had more like Joe Horn then the prisons wouldnt be over crowded and my taxes would be cheaper.
I don’t feel that it’s ever right to take a life UNLESS, you are protecting yourself or your children. I t is not our job to act as the neighborhood police. He did right in calling the cops but that was enough. taking a life no, TWO LIVES, is unacceptable!!!
Two absolute WASTE of life(s), you mean.
1) They were in this country illegally.
2) They were robbing someone’s house (btw, also illegal)
3) He did tell them to stop or else he would shoot (they did not stop…that’s their fault)
4) What he did is completely legal (in Texas)
Explain to me how this is a loss of a life that’s worth anything? Nothing those criminals did in this situation protected them from being shot by someone who was LEGALLY carrying a gun. In fact, the shooting is the ONLY legal part of this whole story.
I would much rather these two be shot than for my tax dollars to pay for them to rot in prison. Thanks to Joe Horn for saving me some moolah.
and is it just me or does the author sound awfully sarcastic throughout this whole piece??
Ummm Mcdade86…dude, that WAS the point. The “sarcasm” was the point.
The men stealing the property were scumbags. Anyone who steals from someone else is a scumbag. I don’t care if you break into someone’s house or download movies off the internet. You’re a scumbag either way. Of course, when you break into someone’s house you’re invading someone’s personal space and taking someone’s personal possessions, not simply choosing to benefit from an illegal activity that someone else has already made available (e.g. pirate videos and music downloads). So people who break into someone’s house and steal stuff are scumbags. Do they deserve to be shot? No. Arrested, yes. Even beat up, sure. But Joe Horn saw an opportunity to be Charles Bronson. He knew that a 60 year old, law-abiding white man would never get in serious trouble for blowing two Hispanic thugs off the face of the Earth. I understand the emotions that rise up when one is victimized. But, objectively, is jewelry, stereo equipment or money worth killing someone over? No, never. Joe Horn knew that and didn’t care. He was too excited at the prospect of fulfilling his fantasy of killing a human being and not getting in trouble.
Although this guy is clearly twisted, the Castle Law is not.
What’s wrong with using whatever force necessary to protect ones home and the loved ones within it?
How many articles are posted on this very site that deal with home invasions or breaking and entering with intent to do harm?
As the single mother of a young child, I’m extremely grateful that I live in a state that upholds the Castle Law. If anyone tries to come into my house, for whatever reason, I am fully prepared to protect myself and my child. And truth be told, I’d do the same even if there was no law to support my actions.
If he knew the police were on their way and the burglars were of no immediate threat to another person’s life, he had no right to shoot them. If he had done that where I live, he’d be going to prison for manslaughter.
Perhaps he isn’t on the same level as most of the people featured on this site, but what he did was wrong.
Loads of “if’s” there. Nice to see that justice works on some parts of the world.
Good thing he lives where he lives and not where you live.
It bothers me a little that he ignored the police dispatcher, but no way would I prosecute ol’ Joe for dropping these two dirtballs. We’re talking about Texas here, and he was trying to stop two burglars from robbing his neighbor. I just don’t see any evil intent.
He reminds me of a garden gnome.
I’m waiting for the punch line where you reveal why this guy is Satan incarnate… but it never came. To me, he comes across as over excited, anxious, maybe a little dumb, but nothing like the evil you portray this guy to be. I can’t honestly say I feel sorry for those 2 scumbags and no way does Joe deserve hell for this.
Wow, this is a pathetically written attempt to make out events to sound as severe and unjustified as possible. I live in Pasadena, and regardless of what others around the country “feel,” we believe in our property rights and the right to protect them. We deal w/ illegal immigrants, which these two were, stealing and murdering around us constantly. This was the effect, when we clearly ignore the causes around us. They were there to steal. Period. They were both repeat criminals and there was no way to know what they were capable of. If you want to commit crimes, I suggest you don’t do it here. The criminals are free to leave the state and commit there crimes in the author’s area.
Not mine.
Nick, you miss the point. Scan through some of the posts, particularly those from ‘admin’. This entire article is SARCASM. The majority of us believe Joe Horn is a hero, as does the author. In fact I believe that if the perps were able to pull this kind of stunt in admin’s neighborhood, he very well might “Joe Horn” them!
Pure brilliance, vcbecky. :) You said what I was thinking.
When I first saw him, I thought the story would be about child molesting, he has that look in his face, possible he is getting alzheimers, i dont know, but the 911 operator told him dont go out, he did not listen and just had to go outside shooting, what if he had shot an undercover cop there hiding to catch the guys, this is a crazy old shit fuck, no hell for him but defenitely some strong meds and a rest home….
i think he shouldn’t go to hell for the simple reason is he was trying to protect his and other people belonging. however, he should have shot a warning in the air to let them know that someone was watching them.
Now that would have been a far worse thing to do, Shakit… Firing a warning shot is extremely dangerous, in that the shooter has no idea where the projectile will land. This story in particular is one of the gems that gets thrown in to lighten up the atmosphere, a little satyre and a little sarcasm goes a long way :)
i didn’t know that. you’re right it does go a long way. thank you for telling me.
No worries :) Let me be the first to welcome you to this happy site. Don’t mind me, though, I like to unleash my sarcasm and vent my stress here, so take anything harsh I may/may not say with a grain of salt.
ok i will. thank you. i’m beginning to lie this site.
Joe Horn is a HERO. The criminals deserved death, and he acted in just faith. doesn’t matter about color. Criminals are criminals. Joe Horn saved the state and country alot of money by expediting the removal of the trash from the earth.
When you are a criminal, all of your rights are forfeit, litigation and lawyers in general have played into the downfall of our society. Criminals, when there is not only clear, but OBVIOUS evidence, should be prosecuted and executed without hindrance… our liberal-society fiasco has prevented this for years :(
Liberals are currently in power. Were your statements upheld by liberals, almost every Republican leaders and most of the Tea Party advocates would have been executed by now.
Our system of justice has flaws, but I’d rather face my accusers in a court of law, and have that right granted to me, should anything ever happen, than to live in a society without due process. My Neighbor could claim I raped her, show a bloody sheet to an officer and in a fit of pique I could be executed. Later, when the blood was shown to be from a steak, should we execute my neighbor for bearing false witness?
Doesn’t bring me back to life.
I’ve argued Joe Horn till I’m blue in the face. It’s when he denies the legal authority of the dispatcher on the phone, disobeys a direct order from an officer of the law, and taunts that officer as he racks the shotgun, that he breaks the law. I wouldn’t pin him with murder per se, I’d pin him with manslaughter and interfering with a police investigation, both crimes.
He’d get off of the manslaughter charge and probably not serve a day in jail on the second, but he’d be guilty of it and the punishment would have the same effect now. Joe Horn said he would not do it the way he did it, had he the choice.
When you’re ready, Joe Horn suggested people read Psalm 94. Read it and think about what you said. I don’t think it doesn’t mean we should have justice, but I think your kind of justice is called vengeance.