Behold the face of evil
This is 61-year-old Joe Horn.
Don’t let the smile fool you.
And don’t let his respectable history fool you, either. A native of Houston, Texas, Joe Horn worked in the communication industry for decades, moving up the ladder slowly but surely before retiring as a computer program manager for AT&T in 1998.
Later that year, Joe Horn moved in with his daughter and her husband in their house in Kentucky to help raise his grandchildren. When his daughter’s husband died, everyone moved back to Houston and Joe Horn went back to work to help support them. Eventually his daughter re-married, they bought a house in Houston, and invited Joe Horn to move in, which he did, again.
All that good stuff doesn’t matter, because Joe Horn is a cold-blooded killer, with the instincts of a vicious, hungry, evil tiger, as he showed with his actions on the 14th of November, 2007.
On that day, Joe Horn saw two individuals breaking into his neighbor’s house.
Now, Joe Horn didn’t know those neighbors very well, unlike the neighbors on the other side of his house. He knew that they were Vietnamese and that they ran a local dry-cleaners.
Mostly, Joe Horn knew that two people were breaking into the house right in front of his very eyes, in broad daylight, probably to take stuff that wasn’t theirs.
Now, he could have been wrong. These two people could have just been there to check the meter. They could have been lost. They could have been there to sell magazine subscriptions.
Regardless of who they were and why they were there, Joe Horn had a shotgun and wanted to shoot someone with it. This, Joe Horn undoubtedly thought, was the perfect opportunity to kill someone - after which he could fulfill his secret desire to wallow in human blood up to his ankles.
To cover his tracks, Joe Horn called the police.
It was a devious move, one that could only be thought up by the most creative of criminal minds.
You see, Texas (which is an evil state) subscribes to the concept of what is commonly known as the Castle Doctrine. This concept basically allows someone to treat their house, or the area around it, as a place that they can expect sanctuary, and gives a person the legal right to use deadly force to defend that place.
Twisted, yes, I know.
Joe Horn knew the law. He knew the law well enough to twist it to his ends.
The elderly killer talked to the 911 dispatcher, telling him about the supposed “crime” going on in front of his eyes, eerily mentioning his desire to kill at the same time.
“I’ve got a shotgun,” Horn said. “Do you want me to stop them?”
The dispatcher responded in a sane, responsible fashion, “Nope, don’t do that - ain’t no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?”
And it’s true! Nothing is worth shooting someone over - ever!
Every. Single. Human. Life. Is. Priceless.
PRICELESS!
Despite the fact that every time someone “steals” from someone else, they are walking away with the amount of lifetime that it took for their “victim” to earn that property, that doesn’t ever give someone the right to kill someone over it!
No!
Despite the fact that it took your sister over three years to save up the money for that car that she uses to get to work, and that someone taking it from her would conceivably be stealing the part of her life that she “spent” “earning” that money, defending your sister’s right to her property with deadly force against a threatening individual would be completely out of line!
Back to the story.
Joe Horn waited for several minutes for a police response, which was, according to the 911 operator, “on it’s way.”
Exasperated, he told the operator:
Hurry up man, catch these guys, will you? ‘Cause I’m ain’t gonna let ‘em go, I’m gonna be honest with you, I’m not gonna let ‘em go. I’m not gonna let ‘em get away with this shit.
A little while after saying that, Joe Horn saw one of his potential victims standing in front of his house, staring at it from the street. He told the operator about this:
I don’t know if they’re armed or not. I know they got a crowbar ’cause that’s what they broke the windows with. … Man, this is scary, I can’t believe this is happening in this neighborhood.
Riiight, Joe. Of course you’re scared. You’re a 61-year-old man with a shotgun. Shotguns make people brave. Just ask this man.
Joe Horn was excited now. The 911 operator asked Joe if he could still see the “suspect” in front of his house, but by then they had both gone into his neighbor’s house. Joe Horn begins to talk about his plan - his plan for murder.
I can go out the front, but if I go out the front I’m bringing my shotgun with me, I swear to God. I am not gonna let ‘em get away with this, I can’t take a chance on getting killed over this, OK? I’m gonna shoot, I’m gonna shoot.
Despite the operator telling him to stay in the house, that it wasn’t worth shooting someone over a few stolen items, Joe Horn responds that he “doesn’t want to go out there” (yeah, right!):
I don’t want to, but I mean if I go out there, you know, to see what the hell is going on, what choice am I gonna have?
Joe Horn stayed in his house for a while longer, but he was itching to kill. After five minutes had passed, with no sight of any cops, no help of any kind, Joe Horn continued to talk to the operator.
Here’s a transcript of their conversation:
Dispatcher: I want you to listen to me carefully, OK?
Joe Horn: Yes?
Dispatcher: I got ultras coming out there. I don’t want you to go outside that house. And I don’t want you to have that gun in your hand when those officers are poking around out there.
Joe Horn: I understand that, OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir, and you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the First and you know it and I know it.
Oh, smooth, Joe. Use the terrorist bombings of the 11th of September, 2001 as an excuse to murder. Very smooth.
Dispatcher: I understand.
Joe Horn: I have a right to protect myself …
Dispatcher: I’m …
Joe Horn: And a shotgun is a legal weapon, it’s not an illegal weapon.
Dispatcher: No, it’s not, I’m not saying that, I’m just not wanting you to …
Joe Horn: He’s coming out the window right now, I gotta go, buddy. I’m sorry, but he’s coming out the window.
Dispatcher: Don’t, don’t, don’t go out the door. Mr. Horn? Mr. Horn?
Joe Horn: They just stole something. I’m going after them, I’m sorry.
Dispatcher: Don’t go outside.
Joe Horn: I ain’t letting them get away with this shit. They stole something. They got a bag of something.
Dispatcher: Don’t go outside the house.
Joe Horn: I’m doing this.
Dispatcher: Mr. Horn, do not go outside the house.
Joe Horn: I’m sorry. This ain’t right, buddy.
Dispatcher: You’re going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun, I don’t care what you think.
Joe Horn: You want to make a bet?
Dispatcher: OK? Stay in the house.
Joe Horn: They’re getting away!
Dispatcher: That’s all right. Property’s not worth killing someone over, OK?
Joe Horn: Bullshit!
Dispatcher: Don’t go out the house. Don’t be shooting nobody. I know you’re pissed and you’re frustrated, but don’t do it.
Joe Horn: They got a bag of loot.
Dispatcher: OK. How big is the bag … which way are they going?
Joe Horn: I’m going outside. I’ll find out.
Dispatcher: I don’t want you going outside, Mr. Horn.
Joe Horn: Well, here it goes, buddy. You hear the shotgun clicking and I’m going.
Dispatcher: Don’t go outside.
Joe Horn yelling: Move, you’re dead!
[Sound of shots being fired]
Then Horn is back on the phone:
Joe Horn: Get the law over here quick. I’ve now, get, one of them’s in the front yard over there, he’s down, he almost run down the street. I had no choice. They came in the front yard with me, man, I had no choice! … Get somebody over here quick, man.
Dispatcher: Mister Horn, are you out there right now?
Joe Horn: No, I am inside the house, I went back in the house. Man, they come right in my yard, I didn’t know what the — they was gonna do, I shot ‘em, OK?
Dispatcher: Did you shoot somebody?
Joe Horn: Yes, I did, the cops are here right now.
Dispatcher: Where are you right now?
Joe Horn: I’m inside the house. …
Dispatcher: Mister Horn, put that gun down before you shoot an officer of mine. I’ve got several officers out there without uniforms on.
Joe Horn: I am in the front yard right now. I am …
Dispatcher: Put that gun down! There’s officers out there without uniforms on. Do not shoot anybody else, do you understand me? I’ve got police out there…
Joe Horn: I understand, I understand. I am out in the front yard waving my hand right now.
Dispatcher: You don’t have a gun with you, do you?
Joe Horn: No, no, no.”
Dispatcher: You see a uniformed officer? Now lay down on the ground and don’t do nothing else.
Dispatcher: Lay down on the ground, Mister Horn. Do what the officers tell you to do right now.
Here is the audio for that call. Listen to the evil dripping from every word Joe Horn utters.
So, despite the 911 operator’s impassioned pleas for calm, Joe Horn walked outside, confronted the two individuals, and blew them both away with 12-gauge shotgun blasts to the back right as a plainclothes detective was pulling up.
Evil.
Frankly, I’m surprised Joe Horn didn’t take all that jewelry himself, hiding it under his mattress until he could sell it to some shady pawn shop to get money for crack.
Maybe if the cops hadn’t arrived for another moment or so, Joe Horn would have…
The cops arrived in time to carry off the two people that Joe Horn had shot. They turned out to be 38-year-old Miguel Antonio DeJesus, pictured here, and his childhood friend from Cali, Colombia, 30-year-old Diego Ortiz.
They were found with a sack filled with more than $2,000 in cash and jewelry that had been taken from Joe Horn’s neighbor’s home.
Ok, so they were burglars.
While rifling through their pockets, looking for spare change, police found that Diego Ortiz had two identification cards on him, with two different names on them. He also had a crowbar.
Miguel Antonio DeJesus turned out to really be Hernando Riascos Torres. Hernando Torres had been convicted of drug charges in 1994, and was ordered to be deported after serving five years of a 25-year sentence. Somehow, Hernando had managed to stay, or had come back after being deported - officials aren’t really sure. Hernando/Miguel had three identification cards in his possession, each with a different name.
Ok so they were illegal immigrant burglars with multiple ID’s and a crowbar. Big deal. They were people too!
Miguel Antonio DeJesus’s fiance, Stephanie Storey, is especially distraught over Joe Horn’s murderous tendencies, after she caught a glimpse of her betrothed’s body on television as cameras recorded it lying on a lawn.
39-year-old Stephanie Storey, who had dated Miguel DeJesus off and on for seven years, knew that the pair were having some tough times, but doubts that they were really making a living by stealing things.
If this was something he did, he would have money and jewelry, and he never did.
Stephanie did, however know that her salsa dance-loving finance had another identity and false Puerto Rican papers.
Even if they were hardened criminals who made their living off the fruit of other people’s labor, Stephanie Storey firmly believes that the pair did not deserve to die.
We saw they were doing the crime; we can’t dispute that. I’m not saying they were saints, but I’m sure they’d prefer to be behind bars than dead. If they were two white boys, he would have given them the opportunity to stop.
You just can’t argue with that kind of logic.
Unless you’re Joe Horn, who made this diabolical statement through Tom Lambright, his attorney and friend for over 40 years.
The events of that day will weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life. My thoughts go out to the loved ones of the deceased.
Evil.
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This guy should have stayed inside, and he obviously wasn’t level headed enough to have a weapon in his possession, but I have a hard time feeling sorry for two scumbags who violated someone’s sanctuary and stole their possessions. If I caught someone in my home that didn’t belong there, where my wife and babies sleep, I would end their lives without hesistation, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that I would not lose one bit of sleep over it. Ever.
Neither would you. I also know that you do not feel that all human life is priceless, because you see a lot of it that is almost without value where we work.
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i’m not much of a fan of the American gun laws, but what this guy did was legal and it looks like he cought two criminals. though i certainly agree two thiefs don’t deserve to die, i fail to see why the guy who stopped them permanently should deserve to go to hell.
no for me on this one.
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Of course he shouldn’t go to hell for shooting two thieves IN THE BACK over someone else’s property! I mean, he knew the police were on the way, and it wasn’t his house, and by going outside he’s only exposing himself to the very threat that he supposedly was protecting himself from, but still. Those darkies could have been dangerous, what with their crowbar and all. That’s true, they might have had a gun, but Horn would never be on the other end of it had he kept his ass in the house. He walked outside TO the threat with the intentions of shooting those guys. He definitely succeeded. In the audio you can hear that he didn’t even give them a chance to stop. And they didn’t threaten him, they turned and ran,only to be shot in the back by some lunatic with an itch to shoot something. But hey, no hell for him. It’s not like he was fighting animals or something. Because we all know, animals > illegal immigrants. No hell for you, sir. You are an honorable man. I’m sure the imaginary targets on the back of those mens shirts served you well.
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James reply on July 3, 2008:
If the Houston Cops weren’t such cowards and actually patrolled rough neighborhoods there wouldn’t have been anyone there to get shot. It’s actually about 90% the fault of the cops. It’s also the cops fault for not kicking those two out of the country when they previously caught them committing crimnal acts.
Realize that of course, in Texas, people used to get shot all the time for theft…there’s 300 years of tradition to get past. It’s only since the 1970’s that it actually became a Bad Thing to shoot a criminal…how the hell that happened I’ll never know. TAKE A BITE OUT OF CRIME, JUST SHOOT THE BASTARDS!!
Two illegal aliens from Columbia who happen to also be long-time criminals got shot, no loss AT ALL. We coddle criminals in the US, we have a revolving door justice system that DOESN’T WORK, as you can see because of those two illegal aliens STILL BEING HERE. Illegal aliens that are criminals ARE NOT equal to dogs…they are on a level far lower, somewhere around la cucaracha…so killing them isn’t a crime, it’s PEST CONTROL!
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They didn’t deserve it, but this case doesn’t deserve hell. If he would have killed the guys after they murdered and stole from them people would have been singing his praises. Yes, he was way to trigger happy. But they knew something like that could happen when they chose to commit a crime, especially in Texas.
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Strange. Nobody seems to think Joe Horn deserves Hell, despite killing two people.
Perhaps the victims put themselves in danger of someone shooting them?
Is that a mitigating factor?
:)
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Of course Joe Horn deserves hell. You kill people, you are going to hell. Sorry, simple as that. Were his actions evil? I don’t know. If the crime had been worse than a robbery, I’m sure he would be a local hero. I can’t imagine what was going on in his head when he decided to take action into his own hands, though. Personally, I would have locked all my doors and ducked under the kitchen table and waited for police. I would not have went charging outside with a shot gun, especially not knowing if the theives were armed. I guess I would just have to agree with the dispatcher. Property isn’t worth killing anyone over. It wasn’t Joe’s property, he was not in danger, and as far as I can tell, the theives didn’t put anyone else but themselves in immediate danger. The thieves did not deserve to die. Jail time would have been appropriate.
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In one paragraph you call him Joe Hill. Why?
Also, what makes you think “September the First” is a reference to 9-11-01? Which, by the way, weren’t exactly terrorist bombings. Attacks yes, bombings, no.
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James reply on July 3, 2008:
The Castle Doctrine allows you to defend yourself on your own property, which means once they crossed into his YARD, they became shootable. Obviously the jury members were very tired of crime and extended the Castle Doctrine to include the neighbor’s property as well…
Florida also has the Castle Law, where about 8 years ago a man found a burglar in his home, shot at him inside & missed, then chased the guy 7 blocks and then shot him repeatedly behind another home. Jury said NOT GUILTY! Go figure. Americans are tired of criminals and are more willing than ever to exonerate someone who kills a career bad guy.
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Way too ready to kill. Sounds like this guy had a bunch of built up anger. Was burgulary a common crime in his neighborhood??? Was he fed up?? He stepped over the line, hell? I am not sure. I am sure he will spend some time behind bars. Manslaughter? Murder? Crime of Passion? Torn on this one.
Happy New Year!
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I think that he did the right thing in protecting his home and the home of others. I know it is bad to kill someone but I have seen what drugs can do to someone and here in los angeles CA. You hear about kids being raped killed and etc… Due to drug users such as this its only a matter of time before they ended up doing worst than what he did.
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I think this guy feels like a lot of us. Our police canot protect us, the laws protect the criminals, the jails are too crowded. The kind of people who rob, steal and are in this country illegally should expect bad things to happen to them just like the bad things they perpetrate on our society. I am sick of it and I’m not going to take it anymore. If I have to protect myself or another innocent person from people like this I will. The last time I called the police because I had a neighbor getting robbed they got there 15 minutes later. I was very frustrated. Next time I’m stopping them myself. Good luck to you Mr. Horn. You are my Hero.
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I love sarcasm.
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I wonder how much crime we would have if this was the way we all handled crime in our community. I bet the crime would decrease. I know the criminals would decrease HA!
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They commited a crime, probably lots of crimes. They got shot. WaaaaWaaa. Who cares. Good job Mr. Horn. Let’s quit acting like a lot of weak victims and start fighting back! I bet crime would slow way down. How many of us have been victims of crimes? How many os us wish that we could have been able to fight back? So let’s do it and see what happens.
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Another poster boy for gun control.
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How many people would have been killed at V. Tech if one of the students had been a licensed gun carrier? He had us trapped like rats and all we could do was scream and hide. Sometimes we have to protect ourselves. I’m not talking about nuts with guns. I’m talking about normal people who are willing to be trained and have enough sense to protect themselves and others. What do you think? THese crazy people who go out and kill multiple innocent people could maybe be stopped before they do so much damage.
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Joe Horn is a hero and every state should be like Texas (not “Tehas”)!
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Did I read PYSIH right? Every. Single. Human. Life. Is. Priceless? Jeffrey Dahmer? Ted Bundy?
You cannot be serious. There are people who walk on this earth who kill, torture, destroy lives, etc. These lives are not priceless. The world would be such a better place if these kind of people just dropped dead in their tracks. What are you thinking? Isn’t this site People you”ll see in hell? Did someone give you some kind of super Maui weed today? This kind of bleeding heart “love the criminal” shit you are pushing on us with this article makes me puke. So these poor criminals got shot because they were worthless pieces of shit. Oh, I’m sorry, they were “priceless” pieces of shit. So pysih dude, why don’t you have these people live with you and rehabilitate them with you kindness. Maybe you could drink cocoa with them and tell them how every one of them are “priceless” and they should just act better. Yeah, I’m sure that would work. They would probably quit acting badly if someone just told them how precious they were. I have to stop now, I just had some vomit come up in my throat.
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msjewel reply on June 26, 2008:
You go notableedingheart!!!!
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My daughter got shot in the face by 2 illegal mexicans trying to hijack her car. I wish Joe Horn would have been there with his shotgun.
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Best. Post. Ever.
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I think that if I saw someone break in to my neighbor’s house in front of my eyes, and then step onto my lawn and look at my house, I probably would be pretty scared. I might panic, to be honest with you. And yes, it’s hard to feel sorry for someone when they do that, regardless of their skin color. You certainly do take a risk like that when you make the decision to put yourself in that situation. I must say, I read these articles every day, and this is the first time I disagree with you guys. Usually it’s stuff about rapists and sadists and cold blooded murderers, and to compare this guy to those other people and say he deserves hell like the rest of them, I think that’s a bit of a stretch. Not to say that killing people over stuff is justified, but I think this is a reaction that a lot of people might have had as well in this case.
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pysih are way out of line. Joe Horn is not a criminal. He is a brave man fighting criminals. I wish he had not had to shoot those guys because he has had all kinds of trouble from people like you. Are you for or against these people who prey on the innocent. That whole article made those jerks seem like poor misunderstood guys instead of the career criminals that they are. Were we supposed to deport them again like we’ve done multiple times already just to have them come back here again and maybe kill someone this time. I guess you would have called the police just to have them back on the street in 1 month and knowing where you lived. Just a thought.
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he’s a hero
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they got what they deserved
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Ok, since it’s the new year and everything, I’ll let you in on a little secret.
It’s called sarcasm, and we’re quite delighted to see that the majority of our readers are bright enough to at least vote “no,” if not understand that Joe Horn is, indeed, a good man.
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Admin, so you believe that the shootings were justified?
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this guy is a hero!!
if we had more people like him we’d have less people like them!
end of story!
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I think more than a few people need to learn the difference between ‘defense’ and ‘offense’.
It is reasonable to allow people to defend themselves against harm or perceived bodily harm on themselves or others. Killing someone who has murdered your daughter/sister while attempting to rob your house is reasonable.
Killing someone over possessions, especially possessions that are not your, but are your neighbors… is not reasonable.
If nobody is under threat of being killed unless they interrupt the break-in of a neighbor’s house while brandishing a gun, there is no real personal threat.
This person should have waited for the responding officers to arrive. He was told repeatedly by the 911 operator to NOT shoot anyone,or even go outside, as police had been dispatched. He was told that plain clothed officer were responding, and to not go outside, not take his gun outside. He disobeyed those instructions. Not only that, he put both his life, and the responding officers lives in danger because he refused to obey orders he was given by 911. He could have made that situation even worse, and could have himself been killed.
He could have been a semi-hero for immediately reporting a suspected break-in at his neighbor’s house. He is no hero for refusing to obey what the dispatcher told him, especially since no life was in danger except his own, and responding officers.
What he did goes against highly researched crime de-escalation techniques taught to both adults and children….
For example, for women, if someone tries to abduct you with your own car, you do not try to fight or kill the person, you take your purse… throw it one direction, and throw your car keys in the other… then take off running.
My children were taught in an LE class at their school that if an adult or older child bully tries to take their backpack, bike, etc., especially if there is a weapon involved, to NOT fight, but to try to remember as much as possible about the perp, and then call LE as soon as possible.
Losing personal possessions or your life are not worth having items stolen. Only being in personal physical danger is a moral reason for being violent against another person. One of those guys could have pulled out a gun, shot the guy… and then he would not be a pseudo-hero then either… he’d just be dead and another victim.
Possessions are never a good reason to kill other people. Self defense is. Putting yourself in danger does not qualify as self-defense.
The guy could just as easily have picked up a camera and documented exactly who was doing what until the LE arrived.
This case is interesting when compared with the case where the perps killed the sister/daughter (and then was beaten to death by family members), as well as the case where the father shotgunned the kid who’d threatened his kid, and due to threats and racist comments felt his family was threatened.
Defending property by killing people is not hero material.
Defending personal bodily attack is. Putting yourself in the line of possible bodily attack by defending your neighbor’s property does not qualify.
I have taught my boys over and over that no possession is worth defending if it will cost them their lives or result in bodily harm.
This guy is no hero. He is lucky, though. His idiotic actions could have cost him his life as well as the responding officers. He should be punished for not following the orders given to him by the agency he called ’supposedly’ for help. His actions could have caused several people’s deaths, including his own.
c
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maybe by his actions 1000’s of would be burglers are now thinking otherwise?
how many lives could that save?
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I am not an advocate of just give them your stuff and they will go away. Think again about that. Lots of people have done that and been killed. How about keep your stuff and run like hell or fight back like hell. We are not talking about people who reason like you or I. We are talking about mean,desperate people who do not care most of the time if you are dead or alive. The more we passively give our stuff to these people the more crime we have to deal with. They are getting rewarded again and again and there is no reason to stop and every reason to escalate. If we are passive why not rape? Why not do whatever you want. Who is going to stop you as long as everyone is saying just go along with it and maybe you will escape with your life. Would you think twice about commiting a crime if you thought you may suffer for it? Quit buying this kind of talk and fight back. Do what you have to do to get rid of these people. Cars are weapons. Teeth are weapons. There are weapons all around us all the time that we can use. Remember the family that was murdered recently (two daughters raped and murdered, mom raped and murdered, dad hit in the head and tied up in the basement). These guys had only been robbers until that day they turned into rapists and murderers. No one fought back. They all tried to cooperate. Now almost all the family is dead. It does not work to passively let people have what they want. I say fight like hell because this might be the day these freaks decide to kick it up a notch and become violent.
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Now dammit, you can’t type in sarcasm! It don’t work! :P
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Sounds like to me that when he stepped outside, they started coming towards him.
My house was broken into twice this year, fortuantely no one was home at the time and these people did not harm our pets either. The second time, the thieves tripped the new alarm system and still ran off. Because the locks were picked, the perimeter looked secure and the police went away blaming a faulty alarm system. When I came home I descovered the usual stuff missing - my change jar and some more jewelry.
Now what if these people had not left, but instead waited for my arrival or I had walked in on them?????
While public officials may think what Mr. Horn did was wrong, I feel that Mr. Horn did the right thing. These criminals had a choice - they could have quickly surrendered to the guy with a shotgun, but instead it sounded like they came toward him! What if that someone was a woman with two children coming back from the grocery store instead of an armed citizen? We may have 3 unsolved homocides along with an unsolved burglary .
While no property is worth killing someone for, THEY decided to escalate the situation rather than surrender to an armed citizen.
I wish that Mr. Horn was my neighbor. After my van was stolen from my driveway it never drove the same again. Thieves don’t care about stuff like that
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Everything I believe is in the article.
In addition:
Burglars in Texas know that they run the risk of being shot, unless they’re so high on whatever that they believe they’re in Canada, in which case they probably expect to be given a hospitable pat on the back and their choice of daughters to rape.
Joe Horn walked to the lawn, the burglars turned towards him and evidently made enough of a threatening gesture or motion that he felt threatened. You do not make a man with a shotgun feel threatened, especially when you’ve just committed an illegal act. If you do this, in Texas, the odds are that you’ll be shot.
If they had gotten down on the ground immediately, after seeing he held a shotgun, maybe they would still be alive. In jail, but alive.
As it is…there’s no shortage of salsa dancers in the world, and one fewer won’t hurt.
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And as for the property rights issue:
You have a right to your personal property. You gave up a portion of your life for that property, and nobody should have the ability to come into your house and take that portion of your life.
Some items don’t take much of your life to obtain. Pencils, pens, small amounts of cash, credit cards and other assorted small items that cost a few dollars and take a few minutes of work to earn aren’t worth shooting someone over.
On the other hand, some items you’ve traded a good portion of your life to obtain, like a plasma television, or jewelry, or large amounts of cash. If you make 2000 a month, and someone comes along and walks off with that 2000 dollar plasma television, they’ve just stolen a month of your life.
I don’t know about you, but I value my time highly. Could someone convince you to work for them, for free, for a month? Maybe threaten to hurt you in order to get you to comply? Would you, in that case, feel justified in preemptively shooting that person?
I would. And I would go get a nice big bowl of cornflakes and eat it while standing over my “kill” and waiting for the cops to arrive.
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Amen, Admin.
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so the outcome of the story is don’t break any laws in Texas unless you’re white.
Oh. and. lives. are. priceless. even. ted. and. jeffrey. they. just. will. rot. as. long. as. it. takes. duh!.
I don’t understand how there can be a state so rutheless that you can shoot anyone for just about any reason that you can pull out of your ass and make it legal. WTFever?!?
As far as the people robbing the house, obviously it wasn’t ok but shooting them in a deadly manner because of something that wasn’t directed towards you whatsoever?
Maybe he should’ve used a handgun and shot em in the leg or something so they suffer AND then get arrested and then receive as least medical treatment and get exported again. Come on…take a bite of the worm.
I feel for Fred…twice huh? You’d think to get a dog or something…
Glory…what exactly is an LE class? It sounds like something everyone should be able to take and it should be offered in schools along with DARE but for a younger age.
oh and my last thought: go-go dancing is sexier and a better workout than salsa
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If I’m ever attacked I hope I don’t have brittany or GloryBug there to help me out.One would give them all my stuff and the other would call the police and watch the perps kill me. Of course, I’m sure they would hope those bad people would be caught and put in jail.
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If you’re white and breaking into houses in Texas, you’re also quite likely to get shot.
If I’m walking through my neighborhood, with my legally-registered firearm at my side, and I happen to see an individual breaking into a neighbor’s car, I have every right to tell that person to stop. I have every right to point the gun at the person and tell him to freeze, that he’s under citizen’s arrest. If that person chooses to move towards me, or make any aggressive move, and I feel threatened, I am entirely within my rights to shoot that person.
And if you’re ready to use deadly force, to protect yourself or others, then make it deadly force. If you’re ever in a shooting situation, adrenaline will likely be making your aim chancy at best. Aiming at an arm or a leg makes it much more probable that you will miss completely and that the person you’re shooting at will come take that gun away from you and kill you with it.
Go-go dancing IS better than salsa, on any level.
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Trigger happy - YES…Evil Human Being - NO…. When you hear the circumstances you really cannot say this was a purely evil act. If that was my house being robbed I would love to have Mr. Horn there… and I am sorry but “…if they were two white boys, he would have given them the opportunity to stop.” - I really hate, hate, hate, HATTTEEEEEE this excuse… it is not becasue they were hispanic that they were shot, they were shot because they were commiting a crime of breaking and entering, robbery, and if someone had been in their way I am sure aggravated assault would have been added to the list… I hate it when illegal citizens act like they have it soooo bad… if they did, they wouldn’t want to stay here illegally, don’t you think?? Mr. Horn probably shouldn’t be allowed to own a gun anymore but I don’t think he is all to terrible, however, I do love my active VIGILANTES…. sorry :)
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Well I guess I won’t worry about getting shot. I don’t plan on rippin anyone off any time soon, but I guess if I do it I would try to be smart about it and not get caught.
The deadly force thing sounds good. It makes sense. I just want these POS to suffer that’s all. I’ve only ever shot a BB gun so I don’t know. Real guns scare the shit out of me really. I’ve heard they’re addicting.
Oh dear Beverly…don’t worry. If I was there’d I’d make sure you didn’t get hurt. oh wait… It depends.
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oh yeah…at least we agree on the go-go dancing.
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While I can’t support use of lethal force (particullarly as Mr. Horn wasn’t defending his own home or family) I can’t help but think that these guys kind of had it coming. You can’t go around breaking into houses, in Texas of all places, and expect it to end well. Further, there is no telling what sorts of shenanigans these two could have been up to with their false identities, illegal and undocumented immigration status, and past criminal records. I’m going out on a limb and guessing that if they broke into this house, they’d broken into others and sooner or later they could have hurt someone if they hadn’t already. With all of that being said, Mr. Horn could have gone for the knees. It would have been just as effective and he could have the pleasure of testifying against them and ensuring their deportation. Win, win.
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If you remember from the news these guys had already been deported several times and had come right back into the U.S. Deporting does not work. If you shoot them in the knees they sue you and win and you pay their medical bills. lose/lose situation.
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Not in Texas. As you can plainly see, you can murder someone trespassing on your property and you think shooting them in the knees would land you in jail or result in a judgement against the shooter? Maybe in other parts of the country, but not in Texas. I’m with you, deportation doesn’t work, but at least if you take out their knees, they’ll have a harder time crawling over the border.
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Kind of hard to explain how two people could be shot in the back…. if they were supposedly approaching this gunman, as everyone keeps saying. Thestory admin posted says they were shot in the back.
I agree, Brittany, that he should have aimed at their legs if he just wanted to ’stop’ them. Shooting them straight in the back is a severe way of ’stopping’ someone- unless what you mean to do is to stop them from having a life. He was such a good shot, he certainly could have crippled them instead, if he was so hell-bent on shooting at something.
Something about this story is flakey. Shot in the back? And, on whose property? His, the neighbor’s, or in the street? Isn’t there some kind of consequence for deliberately doing what the 911 dispatcher told him NOT to? What is the point of even having 911 if you aren’t obligated to do what they tell you? Why’d he even call them? And why couldn’t he have just waited for the cops to arrive and do their job? Something is just off about this story… doesn’t wash.
I understand there are some pro-gun people here who like having anecdotes/excuses for having/using guns, but this is a very bad example to be using to support your beliefs.
The LE class I was talking about is a documentary by an ex LE, teaching children and others how to protect their lives in unconventional ways… not the basic ‘knee him in the groin, poke his eyes’ kind of thing. One of the few situations he recommends fighting someone with a gun is if they are trying to abduct you in a car…. he said stats show your chances of remaining alive are way better by fighting, as few abductees who get into a car end up alive. Another was if someone was trying to get you to another location, as both these situations show an intent to get you someplace they feel safer in killing you at.
Having a gun obviously makes some people feel like they have bigger balls- I’m not one of them.
The last time we went on vacation, the housesitter could not find their key, and ended up having to break into my house in order to feed my dogs and cats. Good thing my neighbor did not feel compelled to shoot her in the back as she left, carrying the karaoke machine I agreed to let her borrow. Instead, they called the police, and called me in Hawaii.
If even police are not allowed to ’shoot first and ask questions later’, why should ordinary civilians be able to, just because they have a firearm?
I have no doubt that details will come out later that will change this story a bit.
Funny story- (well, not really) about 15 years ago I heard my neighbor beating and killing his dog with a chain inside his house. I called the police 2 times… waited, waited. Called the 3rd time and they said it was not a priority and they had no free units. I said, so if I had a gun and was going to kill someone, there’d be no units available? They showed up about 2 minutes later. Apparently the only word they heard was ‘gun’.
And, no, the dog did not live. And, no, the neighbor was not punished since I only heard him killing it, and didn’t see him killing it. They found the dead dog, plenty of guns, and some drugs. He did get in trouble for that.
I must be one of the few people who believes in allowing police to do the job my taxes are paying them to do. And who doesn’t think it’s worth risking my life over anything other than my children.
c
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Lilmisssunshine- If I’m not mistaken, the gunman told 911 that the perps were black, not hispanic.
c
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Ok, I’ve just surfed the news reports a little…
Says the dead men are Hispanic, yet, from listening to the 911 tape, the gunman says they are both black. Correct me if I heard this wrong.
They also say a plainsclothed officer was parked out front, who at one point felt the need to duck, as he didn’t know if the gunman would think he was the getaway driver, and kill him, too.
It bothers me that the gunman on the 911 tape gives a description of the clothing one of the perps was wearing, as well as the crowbar they broke the window with, yet identifies them both as being black. Even without a gun, I can usually tell the difference between a Hispanic person and a Black person.
From listening to the 911 tape, at no time does the gunman sound as if he feels threatened. He does say over and over that he is going to go outside and shoot them because he doesn’t want them to ‘get away’ with it, and he acknowledges that ONLY if he went outside would he be put in a position of facing any weapons/threat from them…but still disregards the 911 dispatcher ordering him not to go outside. He could have also killed the officer out front- at which point I doubt he’d have so many fans.
c
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Lots of Hispanics look black, especially if they’re far enough away.
Brazilians, Columbians, Puerto Ricans…
Joe Horn thought they were black when he was on the phone.
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Horray for Joe Horn!!!!
We love and support you here in Texas!
Criminals look out we will protect ourselves!
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I mentioned earlier that my daughter was shot in the face in a hijack attempt. I had another daughter who while only 19 actually slept in the same house with ” a nice guy” who was a friend of a friend. This guy later murdered 1 man and 2 women and carved symbols in one of his victims stomach. My daughters are college educated professionals and live an upper middle class lifestyle and still have been subjected to crimes. I wanted to think that crime usually happens to people who hang out in dangerous areas and associate with people who are a little shady. Not true at all! I don;t know about you guys but this scares me. I don;t want to live my life in fear for myself and the people I love. I don’t know if arming citizens is the right answer or not, but I wish there was something that we could try because what we are doing right now by letting people out of jail early and not having enough police officers is not working. I have 2 brothers who are police officers and they tell me it is really difficult to get an arrest and conviction these days due to all the laws that protect the criminals. It is very frustrating for them as well as us. Does anyone out there have a clue as to what we have to do to turn around this trend and have the good people of this world better protected?
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and to think I almost pulled the racist card.
I had a deep feeling that it had to do with that and it very well may have. Duh, it’s Texas
Anyways I agree with Glory on the fact that it seems wish washy. I don’t understand how he’s getting off by shooting them in the back.
And Admin, can you find out any more details on the location of where he shot them? Thanks
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Emergency nurse: I think we could (now this is just a fantasy) build a gigantic prison on Antartica and send all the really bad people like the serial rapists and killers to be housed down there then we’d have more room for the “less”-violent offenders to keep them longer than say a few hours (hence the celebrity sentences ie: Lindsay and Paris)
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Brittany, If only we could do that! Too many of our officials and rights activists would veto it I’m sure but wouldn’t that be a great solution.they used to have leper colonies on islands. How about penal ( ha, funny word) institutions on islands surround by hungry sharks?
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didn’t they already try that once? something tells me it didn’t work out cause ya know they closed that one. or was it because it was haunted or something?
I’m young. I don’t know the full Alcatraz situation but I do know (well think I know) that it was an island surrounded by something.
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Brittany,It closed in 1963 (before my time too) because it cost too much to run it and the prison was falling into disrepair. It was supposedly the most expensive prison to run in the U.S. I think maybe we should put them all on a nice warm island and have them all live in tent cities and make shure they can’t get off it. We could just drop off food from a plane and let them fight over it.
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Australia was originally a penal colony. Believe me, if I had my druthers(folks from the south know what I’m saying:))we’d ship off everyone who committed a violent crime to a remote island or God awful diamond mine in Africa and put them to work. If you must be removed from the general population for the good of the public at large I feel that you should have to earn your keep. Make these folks live in a totally self sufficient work colony where they grow and prepare their own food, make their own clothes, manufacture their own sundries and fend for themselves. Obviously this would have to be secured and a staff hired to oversee operation, but that should be the only cost to the taxpayer. I don’t know about you guys, but I’m tired of paying my taxes just to have the money used for the upkeep of criminals that have been removed from society for their crimes. Anyway, I’m a little off topic and high on my soapbox so I’ll pipe down now.
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Oh yeah, and if you burgle a stranger’s home, getting shot is the chance you take. These guys won’t be getting any sympathy from me regarding their demise. Even though I would have made different choices than Mr. Horn, I can’t fault him for taking the action that he did.
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Sarah, I like you on your soapbox and besides you make a lot of sense. I know exactly what druthers mean because i am also from the south.
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“… 38-year-old Miguel Antonio DeJesus, pictured here, and his childhood friend from Cali, Colombia, 30-year-old Diego Ortiz.” - COLOMBIAN
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ok this young one who’s never lived outside of South Cali has NO idea what druthers are…someone explain? I feel left out!
I always thought that these asses should be the ones fighting the wars or at least put on the front line instead of good people getting blasted. But then again who knows if they’d even fight or just lose on purpose or something stupid like that. I know it’s a juvenille thought, but it’s just a thought.
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Brittany, Druthers simply means I would rather. I think the old southern people just said druthers instead of I would rather. After awhile it became a saying ” If I had my druthers”
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oh ok. Thanks. That’ll be the one thing I learn today =P
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Nice spin. You should ask for a job at Fox News. This is a classic example of sensationalism at its finest. Joe Horn should not have killed those 2, but in my eyes, it’s 2 less bad guys on the street. The evidence is obvious and these 2 guys were illegals as well as thieves. Did they deserve to die? Probably not, but if there were more men like Joe Horn, there would be less men like Hernando Riascos Torres and Ortiz.
admin - Thank you, thank you. And yes, if the sarcasm wasn’t evident enough in the post for you, here it is in bold lettering:
WE AGREE WITH YOU.
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Britney
I have a dog - black lab, so I susupect that the dog thought she had a new playmate.
I have a few people that I suspect do to the precision of the crime. Someone who could not pawn off anything because of their reputation and someone who needed cash quickly.
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what does a dog and playmate have anything to do with this story? I’m confused.
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All right admin, if you were being facetious you got me good.
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Fred, What the hell are you talking about?
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Ouch, admin….
While it seems most of the regular posters here tend to agree most of the time about these stories, this is one that I most definitely do not agree with.
Maybe it’s from listening to the 911 tape many times. At no time does he sound scared, frightened, threatened… or even mad/angry, for that matter. What he does sound like is very determined to shoot him some riff-raff, even when told not to by the 911 dispatcher, even when told it could put the plainclothed officers at risk.
Determined, yes. Threatened? Not at all.
It’s also odd that in all the various sites with 911 tape copies, he is quite clearly heard to be stating that he WAS going to KILL them. The odd part being that most news reports, as well as this blog, do not include that incriminating line on their offering of key 911 transcript soundbites.
I think these extreme ‘license to murder’ laws being pushed in almost every state lately, are a very, very bad idea. No checks or balances usually is a bad idea. Forget about wounding anyone and leaving potential witnesses… kill whoever you want and claim you felt threatened, or thought someone was going to steal your dvd player. Classic he said/she said… except the other party can’t say anything because they are dead.
And, the way I read it, this is great for all the women who love to ‘cry rape’ just cuz they’re mad at some dude for dumping them, or cuz they feel guilty about that great one-night-sexathon. (Cuz most rape allegations are fake, right?)
Forget about ‘crying rape’. Haul out your handgun, blast their face, and claim the pervert said he was going to rape you, and you felt threatened, and wanted to protect your personal property… which in this case would be your vagina. No more ‘he said/she said’. It will be clear the guy was a rapist, because why else would you have killed him?
It solves all those pesky problems of asshole parents at their children’s soccer or hockey games… once they appear to be ‘advancing’ on you or your little darlings, you can just blow them away.
And, while no doubt the NRA is openly pissing their pants for joy about the wacko laws they have been able to slide under the door, like any special interest group, they were only thinking about themselves and advancing their gun rights agenda…. but as far as what I’ve read, these laws cover any weapon you want to use, not just guns. And, you can’t have double-standard rules that only apply to strangers…. I’ll still have the right to knife my cheatin’ hubby to death if I’m feeling at all ‘threatened’. And if I kill him, everybody is going to have to take my word for it that I felt threatened, same as if he’d been a stranger. Mighty convenient for me, wink.
Well, if I liked guns and all that killing and all. Rolling my eyes, if you couldn’t guess.
It annoys me how objectivity and logic flies out the window the second a special interest group believes they’re gonna get their little deal-io.
So, yeah, I’d say we don’t ALL agree on this issue.
We might, however, all agree that the picture that the pic of Mr. ‘SFAQL’ accompanying this article looks as if he’s in need of some new ‘lederhosen’, and that he might need to put that beer stein down once in a while. Or get off the Octoberfest wagon once in a while.
c
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Oh yeah Texas the evil Devil state becuz killers who go to prison get the death penalty and we look out for each other and their things? Yea right on.. You should give the guy a medal
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Besides look at his cowboy hat … NOW TELL ME HES GOIN TO HELL.
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This is one odd article for sure. Though I do sense some sarcastic moments in there, I just don’t buy that you weren’t calling him evil. Flip-flopper!
And if I’m wrong, you should really work on your sarcasm.
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There are plenty of reasons to have a ‘beef’ (pun intended) with Texas.
When my friend was in military training there, she couldn’t get a decent vegetarian meal to save her life.
And, it appears many people who live there have some whack ideas about guns and lethal force to protect OTHER people’s property, not to mention iffy laws that allow people to SFAQL.
The death penalty? Eh, not so much. I’d guess if we took a big ‘majority rules’ kind of vote, most states would have an operating death penalty. Just because states don’t have it doesn’t mean the general pop doesn’t want it. I’m happy to live in Funny, Sunny California, where we also have a DP. Too bad we don’t enforce it, and that we allow DPI’s to live in Camp Luxury for decades before we get around to offing them.
Our DP might offset having a previously steroid-using, drug-abusing, sexually-harrassing ex-actor and non American-born, barely English speaking cro-magnin as a governor. Who invited a Nazi to his wedding. Maybe. Pretty sad when the only requirement to hold office is have been an actor. Off-topic, but I don’t think anyone should be able to hold a political office if they haven’t even taken a Political Science class in college.
The DP is not the main reason people criticize Texas. Or California.
c
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Oh, and BrianB-
You aren’t the only one who was confused by the hint of sarcasm in the original blog story.
I, also, thought admin was being sarcastic, and was quite surprised, really, when his thread comments proved otherwise. And, to be honest, I was a little thrown off, because the comments/opinions (if not taken sarcastically) did not match the impression I’d gotten of the stance of the admmin after having read all the stories/threads posted previously.
It just goes to show that even if you agree on a lot of things with people, invariably there will be many other things you do not agree with.
Darn. I’m OCD, so I like everything black and white…. sniff. Grey confuses me.
LOL.
c
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Glory Bug, I don’t agree with you but it’s probably because I was raised in the rural south and i’ts a different culture than yours. I got my first gun at age ten and hunted most of my life. Now I do not kill living thngs for sport and try to save injured animals. I have gone soft on innocent living things being killed. I am not soft however when to comes to protecting the innocent and good in this world. I do have a concealed carry license and do carry my gun. I will only use it if confronted with deadly force to protect myself or another human. A gun is my hands (I’m an excellent shot) is a good thing because I am calm and responsible. The police cannot be every where at once. That is why I protect myself.
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Ah, Joe, Joe, Joe.
Don’t get me started. You don’t really want to know what I think about hunting.
I’ll say this- I think it’s about as ’sporting’ as shooting people in the back.
c
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Hunting is obviously no longer necessary. It does however fulfill several vital roles:
A) animal population control- What happens to an animal population that was supposed to exist in an environment where predators helped control population, and the predators are no longer there? With no checks in place it is far more gruesome than hunters harvesting a few animals. Starvation, disease, increased incidents of animal-caused traffic accidents, crop damage, etc..
B) hunters are generally conservation minded, as they want to protect the resource they enjoy. Funds from hunter’s licenses and fees also go back into the environment. Additional money is spent on conservation by groups like Pheasants Forever and Ducks Unlimited. Hunters give back far more than they take.
C) if you eat meat and are anti-hunting, just go to hell. No one that isn’t willing to kill and clean an animal should be allowed to eat one. If you ate at Burger King today and are anti-hunting you are a big, fat hypocrite.
Hunting is not about going out to kill. It’s about enjoying nature, it’s about sport, it’s about self-sufficiency, it’s about enjoying meat that wasn’t force fed steroids on some factory farm. God gave man dominion over the animals, and we should use the resource respectfully and wisely.
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Um, like I said, you don’t want to know what I think about hunting.
And it shouldn’t surprise you that I have not eaten at Burger King today, or any other day for the last 23 years. I get the no-hypocrite tag, since I don’t eat meat, and dont wear leather.
I guess that’s the only reason I’m justified in having an opinion on hunting? Hmmm.
“It’s about enjoying nature, it’s about sport”
I enjoy my boys. I like playing games with them and watching them do sports. It doesn’t usually involve me killing them at any point.
We don’t need to agree on any points about hunting, since this is a blog about murderous people… which I’m also against.
c
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wow, long time offline for me, sorry i missed the whole thread. indeed best thread ever imho.
nothing more to add which hasn’t been said already i guess.
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First, I LIVE in Pasadena, grew up out here, and my dad was part of the civil rights groups that drove the KKK out of Pasadena.
Second, Joe Horn had every right to do what he did. My dry cleaners are the couple who own the house where all this started. These two were part of an organized crime gang who victimized immigrants..immigrants who, by nature of their history, do NOT trust the police, and 9 out of 10 times, will not report the crime. Yes, they had asked Joe to watch their house, like most of us ask our stay at home neighbors to do. Since they had, Joe’s butt is covered. The Castle Doctrine would NOT have applied here had they not..but since the law states that deadly force CAN be used to stop a felonious act..his butt would have been covered anyway.
Third..Joe did not make the decision that stuff was more important than people. The criminals did. This is Texas, ya’ll..we were our own Republic BEFORE we joined the states, so we’ve always had our own rules. Everyone here..brown, yellow, white, black…KNOWS that you take your life in your hands when you break the law. So Ms Storey saying her honey didn’t deserve what he got should consider that he, NOT MR HORN, made that decision when he broke into that house. And considering she profited off what he brought home in my eyes makes her an accessory after the fact, so boo hoo, shutup.
FOURTH…one body was found in HORNS YARD. The other one was shot there but made it halfway down the street before he collapsed. They were shot with SHOTGUNS, so even if Horn aimed at their knees (doubtful he would do that if these criminals were coming at him, like the evidence suggests) they would still have been hit in the torso. Do your homework, people. You can’t direct shotgun pellets the way you can a bullet..that’s the main reason we keep shotguns as defense weapons. If you aim in the general vicinity, you’re gonna hit ‘em.
FIFTH…there was an undercover Pasadena cop there who saw everythi