Michael Gagnon
On December 30th, 2007, 24-year-old Michael Gagnon, a construction worker, almost single-handedly wiped out a family heading home to their residence in Maryland after spending Christmas with family and friends in Michigan.
After drinking himself into a stuporous 0.254 blood alcohol level, Michael Gagnon left the party at the Rodeo Bar and Grill, for no good reason.
His family had three rooms rented at the Holiday Inn that the Rodeo Bar and Grill shares a parking lot with, and he could have stayed there quite easily.
But Michael Gagnon really wanted some Taco Bell.
So, despite the fact that there were designated drivers at the party, such as his pregnant sister, he left the party to go and get it, hopping into his brother’s black 2005 Ford F350 pickup truck that they used for construction work and heading on down the road to the nearest Taco Bell.
You have to be pretty drunk when people working at Taco Bell notice that you’re too plastered to drive, but that’s exactly what happened as Michael Gagnon drove through the drive-through.
If you click over to the right a little, you can listen to the 911 phone calls made by a few of Michael Gagnon’s fans that night.
What would have been an easy drive for a sober man was made extraordinarily complicated by Michael Gagnon’s drunkenness.
Only Michael Gagnon knows what was going through Michael Gagnon’s head at the time, but he missed the turnoff for the interstate to head back to the party and continued along until he saw, swerved towards and drove onto the wrong on-ramp – a maneuver that makes perfect sense when you’re sitting at a blood alcohol level three times the legal limit.
He might even have gotten away with the maneuver if the on-ramp that he drove onto wasn’t, in fact, an off-ramp.
Michael Gagnon drove about four miles down the wrong way on the highway before he smashed into the 1999 Chevrolet Astro minivan that 36-year-old Daniel G. Griffin Jr. was driving his family home in.
This photo pretty much explains what happened.
Michael Gagnon’s brother, Samuel Gagnon, whose MySpace profile can be found here, felt something was wrong and called Michael Gagnon’s cell phone. Michael answered the phone and said, “Sorry, bro.”
Yeah.
Eyewitness accounts say that both drivers tried to avoid a head-on collision, but that the passenger door was basically ripped off it’s hinges as the full-size Ford pickup truck ran into the minivan.
As the minivan was ripped open, an assortment of stuffed animals, toys, luggage, gift wrap and baby blankets flew over the highway, along with several of the children who were riding in the minivan.
The injuries were pretty much what you would expect. Broken bones. Massive head trauma. Death.
Less than 10 minutes after Michael Gagnon left his little party, he had managed to kill the voting majority of a large, happy family.
What makes it worse is that when police arrived, Michael Gagnon was belligerent and completely uncooperative, fighting with the paramedics who were trying to treat him and screaming at the firemen who pulled him out of his brother’s truck.
The only remotely positive bit of information I can find about this incident is that it happened at a time of night when most of the kids would have been asleep.
Who did Michael Gagnon murder?
Well, mom Bethany Griffin died. She was 36. Her MySpace page can be found here. 10-year-old Jordan Griffin died too, along with 8-week-old Vadie Griffin. 10-year-old Haley Burkman and 7-year-old Lacie Burkman, Danny Griffin Jr’s stepdaughters, were also killed.
Danny Griffin Jr. survived, although I’m sure he’s none too happy about that.
Michael Gagnon? He’s fine – just had a minor jaw injury, five counts of aggravated vehicular homicide and a $1.25 million bail. Don’t worry about him.
Does Michael Gagnon deserve Hell?
- Yes (72%, 1,255 Votes)
- No (28%, 480 Votes)
Total Voters: 1,734
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559 Comments »
You hypocrites! Everyone deserves hell (read the Bible), and this little turd was only doing what all of you taught him to do (i.e. think only of himself at all times regardless of the circumstances because hey God loves me any way).
You need to know that each one of those who died in that vehicle “accident” is in hell right now.
The only thing you should be worried about is when you will splash dive into hell.
Read these verses, repent, obey God and shut up your hypocritical mouths:
Lu 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Lu 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Job 8:13 So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hypocrite‘s hope shall perish:
Thank you!
The fact is it’s all well and good to have memorial websites and myspace pages to the victims but untill we have change in this country with how we deal with drunk drivers it’s all just memories to people with more to come. The victims that have survived should use their stories to help make a change so others will not just become another sad memorial on the internet.
Wow, won’t you all be surprised when you find out there is no god, no heaven or hell…..we just rot in a box you wierdo’s! Do you believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy too???
Atheist, you may have a point there.
But I have to disagree about Santa. Santa IS real. I saw his picture! His real name is JOHN CANTRELL.
Now, what else do you have to debunk?
I read what ‘Michelle’ wrote in the ‘hate mail’ column regarding Michael GAGnon. He brought this on himself and MURDERED these innocent people. Get real Michelle. YOU are an IDIOT! Had this been YOUR family killed like this, I imagine you’d be writing another hate mail condemning the drunk driver to hell.
Are you from Westboro Church? Cult that goes around protesting? If so, you suck and if not, you still suck.
It is the whacks from WBC. Abi is short for Abigail and Fred Phelps has a daughter named Abigail. Four of the 13 defected because of abuse.
Abi you are so full of crap your eyes are brown. You are obviously a fundie who has been brainwashed since birth with all the myths of the
so called “holy book”. Did your parents feed you pages of the bible in your cereal? When are people like you going to wake up and
start showing some intelligence. The world is at a loss when such stupid ideas are being used as reason. How can mankind advance when your type of imbecilic views are believed? Please do us all a favor and shut the f***K up.
In response to Abi…you’re a moron. How can you say that all of those innocent victims are in hell. In my opinion we are in hell now with all the horrible things I read about everyday. I have to believe that once we leave this god forsaken earth that there is a better place in store for us. Especially sweet innocent child victims. As for the drunk driver – I feel for him as well because he will have to live with their blood on his hands for the rest of his awful life, even though it was an accident.
Mark 10:14 But when Jesus saw, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
10:16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
Ooo, the kids are in hell, huh?
Watch out who you quote scriptures to. There might not be many here, but there is at least one Christian who won’t allow you to talk out of your neck. Yes, we all deserve Hell, yes many will not accept Christ, yes repenting is a part of Salvation, but I do not believe that God would sentence a 8 week old baby to eternity without His Grace. Infants and young children do not have the capacity to accept Christ as their personal savior and confess aloud their choice and thus be saved. (Romans 10:9)
Thank YOU
It seems that if someone who had the morals of Joe Horn was either at the party with Michael Gagnon or working at the Taco Bell MAYBE the Griffin family could be at home right now reading about how some vigilante assaulted, shot or killed someone who did not harm anybody, but because of his high BAC (Blood Alcohol Content) became a victim of a vigilante.
Instead everyone around Michael Gagnon did what they should and nothing more – they called the authorities. I am not blaming the authorities – they can NOT be everywhere policing everyone all the time; instead I blame the courts because if anyone had used any type of force to stop this POS, they’d be criminals!
We need more Joe Horns – people that not only know what is right, but will act upon such.
Abi – I do not have a Bible infront of me, but I do know that somewhere in the Bible it says “by your fruits you shall be known”, I am fairly certain that the children now in a place far beyond evil’s reach. As far as Michael Gagnon goes – he COULD go to heaven, but given the facts of the story, espcially the fact that he was belligerant after doing what he did, it’s a safe bet that he’s going to the place of eternal torment. When was the last time you went to a pear tree to get an apple?
Whoa!
One of the Phelps family commented. Bizarre.
They’re famous for something, I think. Can’t think of why at the moment, but I’m sure it’ll come to me, or I’ll be reminded.
Unless I go to Hell from now until then, of course.
OMGoodness, I thought that was them. Westboro Church is where they are from. They protest everthing and Fred Phelps their leader is gay :-)
I think Fred Phelps is a repressed gay man and needs to lash out. I mean seriously, why is he so fixated on homosexuality?
Westboro Baptist Church is really out there. They should have an entry here at PYSIH.
Fred Phelps has a daughter named Abigail Phelps and Abi is short for it. It does sound a lot like them.
ha ha Phelps is an ass. Maybe if he was there, you know at the Taco Bell he would’ve knocked soem sense into Michaels head with one of his “God hates Fags” signs. ha ha.
as far as the family is concerned I feel bad for them. I’ve been buzzed at times just driving a few miles (I know it’s a no-no) however I think I would know if I was going the wrong way on the freeway. However having a BAC that high, I don’t know if I’d even know which pedal did what.
Abi you are the worst kind of sick bastard there is. How dare you even inference that those sweet beautiful children are now some how rotting in hell? The type of hate you have spewing forth from your vile contemptible pea sized piece of a brain will surely snare you a special spot right next to the devil himself. That woman was kind and intelligent and a fantastic mother, neither she nor any of her family deserved to die or to be injured in that horrible accident, but I would gladly cheer if they were to replace them all with only one. YOU
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Do not talk about the eternal fate of people you do not know.
You don’t know where their hearts were.
Feel free to judge when you are perfect.
You call everyone else hypocrites? Look at your own actions and words. You are the reason people look down apon Christian. Your actions give people who follow God a bad name.
Lord help you, because you surely aren’t helping yourself.
I assume Abi includes himself in his “Everyone deserves hell”.
Be Seeing you Abi!
i think abi is just trying to piss people off!!Hes a dead motherfucker…
So an 8 week old baby is in hell? Funny because I know for a fact Bethany and her family were a Christian family. You and your WBBC lunatics need to get some mental help.
If we are all going to hell, I’ll see you there because I honestly doubt that you are exempt from that.
Well, WBC said Pope John Paul II, 9/11 Victims, and Mr. Rogers was going to Hell.
I love this site but I really can’t stand how everything has to be so religious. UGH. It drives me crazy absolutely crazy
so with that being said people take the whole “going to hell” poll WAY to serious. It’s just entertainment. Hell we can only bring someone in and take someone out in this world, not necessarily decide what happens to them after the fact.
It’s all fun an games. Ya’ll need to understand that!
Who’s “ya’ll”?
I have no issue with the little poll.
I have issues with the idiot psycho from WBBC saying that my friend and her children are all going to hell without knowing them or what they are about.
that’s who the ya’ll is. Not the few of us who seemingly can stay away from bible verses and understand that it’s strictly entertainment.
First I want to applaud Whit and tell Abi that he/she is a complete idiot. I feel so bad for this family. No child ever deserves to die, and for something so stupid. Why didn’t someone at that party take the dude’s keys? The brother for instance? This “accident” could have easily been prevented and its sad that alcohol ends so many lives. Its alcohol for crying out loud. It tastes bad and you feel like crap the next day. So not worth it. I hope he thinks about those children every day of his worthless life.
Wow, I didn’t know Charles Mansen was out of jail and a christian now?? Hey Abi, I don’t often say this about people I don’t know but your a f*cking asshole!!!!! How dare you say those innocent children are in hell!!!??? Oh, and by the way Mr./Ms. “high and mighty”, if you are such a God fearing person why are you not respecting the 1st commandment (thou shall have no other God above me).. that means you are NO ONE to judge so you shut up and repent because I don’t think Christ will appreciate you saying an 8 week old baby deserves hell…. your probably one of those idiot extremists who blows up abortion clinics right?? get a freaking life and I certainly would not want to be YOU on judgement day… you are just a bad as that drunk driver and you give good-hearted Christians a bad name!!.. I hope you don’t have kids because I am sure you are poisening their minds just like yours is poisened… Oh, and FYI, we didn’t teach him to get drunk and drive he did that on his own, watch what you say because I, for one, was hit by a drunk driver in my car and almost died myself so in closing I would like to say F*CK YOU ABI and why don’t you actually go to a normal church (with no special punch) and learn a thing or two about our Lord!!!
Yep. That just about covers it.
Actually I think Mr. Manson is a priest or something up in prision. I think that’s what I heard. If I’m wrong, correct me but he is some kind of religious figure.
Helter Skelter
I can’t help but to throw that in any time that Manson is mentioned. It’s like a trade mark.
Caressa…
it tastes bad going down and coming up.
so this Brittany chick thinks that Bethany and her family’s death at the hands of this jackoff is entertainment? Fuck you bitch go give Abi a lap dance on an electric chair
ha ha. no I said the voting and polls is entertainment.
I don’t give guys lap dances either let alone give anyone lap dances. I purely like to receive them.
If you look at the other post I don’t think anything as far as what happens to the families is entertainment. Just the polls.
Who the fuck do you think you are putting words into my mouth? Wow…you’re a real winner.
I hope this guy rots in hell for a very long time.
Most of all I hope the knowledge of what he has done haunts him.
What a beautiful family my prayers are with you!
This was such a horribly tragic accident. As a family member of Mike, I feel horrible for the victims and their family. I do not think Mike will go to hell. He is a great person. A christian himself. He is living is own personal hell right now. Yes he was beligerent with the authorities, but that was the alcohol. He made a HUGE mistake and he will pay for it for the rest of his life. I know first hand what kind of person Mike is, and he would give up his own life to bring them back. I wish there was something I could have done, but he left without any of us knowing. As much as our family thinks about how we could have changed things, its too late. I will probably never see Mike again and for good reason. May God have mercy on him when it is his time. I am positive that the victims are in heaven now and just may forgive Mike for his mistake. You can be a great person all your life, it only takes one mistake, one HUGE mistake, and your dammed forever. God Bless!
Abi-
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree corrupt and its fruit corrupt; for the tree is known by its fruit.
Luk 6:44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.
So, as I said earlier……..
I’m sorry for any family members of Mr. Gagnon, but I have no sympathy for him whatsoever. He made a series of choices, each more boneheaded than the previous and as a result, a family is destroyed. As a Christian, he had better be on his knees begging God and his victim for forgiveness. He should be kept in a cell decorated with life sized photographs of his victims. Drunk drivers are a huge pet peeve of mine. I can’t think of a more senseless and avoidable tragedy. If you are at a party where someone is getting this out of hand, car keys should be confiscated and not returned under any circumstances until the next day. Are you honestly telling me that no one recognized how sauced this guy was? Why did the staff at the bar allow him to get that way? Where I’m from the server or bartender could be held personally liable if they have overserved and something like this happens. How did none of the sober members of the party not catch him taking off? This level of intoxcation isn’t exactly subtle. There are many fingers of blame to be pointed, but the bottom line is, this guy chose to get in a vehicle that wasn’t his and make a run for the border. His choice, his responsibility and he should have to spend the rest of his sad life atoning.
He should be forced to have the victim’s pictures in his cell for the rest of his life as well as being forced to make presentations to colleges and high schools about how one night of drinking can destroy your life forever
I can’t stand drinking and driving. It’s like shooting a gun at random and acting surprised when one of the bullets hits someone. There have been many times when I have been drunk, hell, there have been times when I could barely walk from it. But not once did I loose sight of what was right and what was wrong. I can’t stand it when someone uses drinking as an excuse for idiocy.
Abi…It still amazes me that there is always one dumb fucker that spews out verses from the Bible when a tradegy like this happens. What fucking denomination are you affiliated with that would have you believing the bullshit you wrote ? Put that Bible down boy and get on your knees and thank God that none of us know where you live. And please..do us all a favor..if you find someone stupid enough to ever have sex with you..wear a condom…there are too many dumb fucks in the world already.
I knew this story was going to make it here. Michael Gagnon definitley deserves Hell.
There is no excuse for driving drunk. It’s such a shame that this innocent family perished and that scumbag survived. He should have been the one to die.
Gagnon family: You provided local hotel rooms and designated drivers. What you missed is giving drunk people the chance to make the decision to drive. Drunk people don’t make good decisions. The designated drivers should have had all the keys. No drinking person should have access to keys. That’s part of drunk driving prevention.
I was brought up in a very strict BAC household. I believe the bible has many prohibitions against drunken-ness.
That’s one thing I don’t like about the BAC religion… that no matter what you do, you’ll be forgiven. Pretty much it means you can do every shitty thing heathens do… but you’ll still be forgiven and get to go to heaven… while the heathens who do the same things will not.
No matter what a great xian his family/friends think he is, I will not be surprised when it comes out that this is not the first time Mr. DUI was 3 times the legal drunken limit… just the first time he massacred a family because of it. Gotta love xianity… you can make the same fuckups over and over, and as long as you ask god for forgiveness, everything’s a-ok. What a great religion.
When it comes down to it, who the eff cares what religion someone is, as if it excuses the things they do? Everybody wants to call themselves xian nowdays. I prefer people who are no religion at all, who are consistent in their morals, and don’t wipe out whole families with their drunken-ness.
I would imagine that whatever hell this loser DUI guy will go to when he’s dead can’t compare to the hell the surviving dad/stepdad is having to live in right now.
c
his cousin owns the bar…im sure it wasn’t the first time he was drinking more than he should. the bar is a party playground for kids under the age of 21. The owners, three YOUNG men, often have allowed girls and boys underage drink there. As a customer, I have seen many drunks leave the place..When you have 21 year old owners laughing at how drunk they can get a customer, it is no suprise this incident happened. i am sure Mike was a good christian, but i have no tolerance for drunk driving. I like the point that was said this probalby wasn’t the first time he drank and drove. Its just the first time he was caught…
maybe it wasn’t the first time he was caught. maybe it was just the first time that it was fatal.
I loathe you religious nut-bags, heaven and hell is all made up to make money off you suckers. Donate 20% of you pitiful monthly check to the church, what a load of shat.
As for M Gagnon, let the living members of the Griffin decide his fate and punishment.
ha ha ha ha…thats a good one Ed.
Oh hey…looks like I was right.
The AP said “Gagnon’s driver’s license has been suspended multiple times after he failed to provide proof of insurance or registration, and he has had two speeding tickets since 2002, according to the Michigan secretary of state’s office.”
That’s close enough.
First of all as a family member of Mike, I can tell you that all of us our praying for the Griffin family members and friends. This is hard for all of us! It was such a horrible accident! But he does not deserve hell. And who are any of you to wish that opon someone. THAT IS GODS CHOICE AND HIS ALONE! None off you know him obviously. He was a good guy, that mad a horrible choice. I am sure he won’t need to picture of them in his cell, b/c I am sure each of their faces are implanted in his brain for the rest of his life! He is not the only one that has made the choice to drink and drive. People do it everyday! Let this be a lesson to everyone. Never drink and drive. And as for blaming our family. I think we are all doing that on our own with all the what ifs that are imagainable. It was no one elses fault. He didn’t have his car their! He didn’t have keys to take away.
as a close member of mikes family, i know that he is EXTREAMLY EXTREAMLY torn up about this. mike would do anything for anyone. everyone makes mistakes and he will and has learned from this experience EVERYONE HAS! He is not some WACK JOB that woke up that monring and when on a killing spree this is an ACCIDENT A TERRIBLE TRAGIC ACCIDENT! AND FUNNY you say he had his DL taken away MULTIPUL TIMES, try once and that wasn’t for anthing but not payin a FEE!! not for anything else, thats right a FEE!!!! Mike is very much a family man and if anything was to happen to him w/ the reverse he would not act the way you people are acting. and as for blameing the family, i understand that you all feel that you have to balme someone for this but there is only one to blame and that is Mike, he only blames himself, we had no idea that he left and as soon as we did we were freaking out and looking for him cause we did have rooms to stay in. and as for the guy that goes on about blameing the bar i notice that you YOURSELF SAY YOU GO THERE REGULARLY, so you must be sober as can be when you leave THE BAR right? i understand what happened is terrible and dont think for one second that our family is not COMPLETELY DISTRAUGHT over this. Mike is the most responsible, caring, thoughtful, respectful, christian, person who has done alot of great things before this. and we love him and always will, he is our family, and i you guys can go on “BASHING” him if it makes you feel better but let me tell you this, the only people that DESERVE TO GO TO HELL, is no one, we are all god children and he will help us in our toughest time.
“THOSE W/OUT SIN LET THEM CAST THE FIRST STONE…”
god bless….
everyone makes mistakes?? you’re right… they do. I’ve made a million.
I forgot to brush my teeth a time or two.. that’s a mistake, i cheated on a math test once in Jr. high, that was a mistake, i got a really bad haircut once, that was A HUGE mistake, i’ve gone to work sick before when i should have stayed home.. mistake.. yeah, everyone makes millions of mistakes. Here’s what i havent done… killed anyone (by mistake), gotten in a car to drive home when i’m drunk (becasue… i’m a fucking adult and know that i don’t have the faculties to do so)
Getting shit faced drunk, getting in a car and murdering 5 innocent people is not a mistake… It’s not an “oopsy” – it was a choice… he CHOSE to murder those people. The second he got in that car, got behind the wheel and started to drive he decided he wanted to kill people. Now there is a god fearing stand up citizen if i ever saw one.
Hell is too good for this POS. he deserves to survive the the death of the 5 people he loves most in this world. And then live and long long life locked in a cell with nothing but his thoughts to keep him company.
Its people like Micheal that make me sick. Almost my whole family was slaughtered by a stupid stupid man. If he had any sence at all he would know better. and as far as casting the first stone. haha too late you just did that so here is a stone right back, He is a huge POS that does not deserve forgivness. Hate me if you want but I could care less right now. I have delt with his kind before not a happy ending. so may he rot in pieces someday.
ABI,
As far as religious i was brought up Christian but did not remain so. So i guess take it how you want it. I am a very open person when it comes to religion I do not descriminate against other faiths and beliefs so I’d appreciate if you didnt descriminate against mine. And for my own protection I will not disclose mine. and may the WBBC burn down
I loathe you religious nut-bags, heaven and hell is all made up to make money off you suckers. Donate 20% of you pitiful monthly check to the church, what a load of shat.
As for M Gagnon, let the living members of the Griffin decide his fate and punishment.
ED SMITH WE WILL SEE YOU IN HELL
hey I was just going by a source.
I understand you’re his family but wtf? have you seen the pictures from the accident? Have you seen the van? the presents all over the place?
I blame a few people. Obviously Mike himself. Then there’s the supposed designated drivers who should’ve took ALL the keys but didn’t. Then ofcourse there’s the cops and if you do enough research online you can see the multiple phone calls made and the 26 or so minute laspe that could’ve prevented this. I’m not saying it would’ve but it could’ve and it didn’t so I blame the responding officers as well.
As a computer programmer, i do not program every waking hour of the day. I cook, eat, bathe, watch TV, drive, spend time with my wife & daughter, etc…
Mike is now known for his DUI killing of many mebers of a family – something that he does not do every day, but something that the surviving members of the Griffin family will have to live with every day.
At my class reunion, the food was so-so at best. I got soo wasted on 4 1/3 of the best Alabama Slammers ever! I was so trashed that I dare not even walk across the street to Denny’s & my hangover was so bad that I did not drive the next day – even though by then my BAC was legal.
Point is – I have been where he was and it was not impossible to make the right choices…
As far as drunk people and judgement – how many times have you either been a total asshole or picked up or been picked up by a total asshole when drunk? Driving requires judgement – that is why my 12 year old daugher does not have her licence yet – despite the fact that she’s probably smarter than most of the people behind the wheel.
Sure Mr. Gagnon is a nice guy to some people, but to the surviving members of the Griffin family he is a selfish killer – period!
Anonymous – if Mile is such a wonderful person, why didn’t anybody say “You are too drunk – let me go for you” or “I will drive you”
Were you all too drunk?
Or is Mike an asshole at times and noone care what the whiney selfish soon to be a killer bastrard wanted this time?
Or are all such a bunch of selfish bastrds that you did not care about Mike (maybe hoping that he would hit a pole) or anyone else, caring only about your good time at the party?
There are people who found Hitler to be a nice guy as well.
yeah i did britney and, i understand, HOW CAN YOU EVEN COMPARE HIM TO HITLER? you cant.
we didnt know he left, it was packed, we turned our head for a min, adn he was gone. we didnt say “hey MIKE see you later, oo wait heres one for the road” ARE YOU SERIOUSE!! PLEASE! we WOULD HAVE NEVER EVER EVER let him go, THATS WHY WE HAD ROOMS, if you are goin to use “REPORTS” get them straight adn dont use BIT ADN PIECES.
and your right let the living members of the Griffin decide his fate and punishment, they have and they have forgave him, as best as they can. the only people that can judge him is THAT family so everyone needs to come off thier god complex, because you all are not god.
“THOSE W/OUT SIN LET THEM CAST THE FIRST STONE…â€
agian god bless
We havent forgiven him yet !
I don’t remember anyone comparing him to Hitler.
the reports did say there were 3 rooms rented to the Gagnon family. the reports also said that the rooms were checked out Monday morning.
i give him credit, he swerved to avoid hitting the van, but instead side swiped it throwing the baby, and carseat and other children from the car.
oh and we know we’re not god. i couldn’t be. i’d beat the shit out of people like mike too often given the opportunity. and believe me i know i’m not without sin.
i’m a lesbian, ex-drug addict, who smokes cigarettes. i don’t take my sundays to do nothing unless it’s recouperating from the hangover the night before and i like to spend my money on strippers. oh and i used to have a stripper pole in my apartment. yes i know i’m not without sin, but i haven’t been so irresponsible as to drive while that intoxicated like Mike and well my father. at least my father didn’t kill anyone.
oh i see the Hitler reference
Mike’s family:
It wasn’t an accident.
Everyone:
People keep tossing around “God Bless” and “also a good Christian”.
Being a Christian doesn’t in and of itself make one any better, or worse, than anyone else. Driving drunk is a pretty big step in the ‘bad’ direction if you ask me.
Anonymous:
This is America. We have a constitutional right to throw stones.
as someone who knows former alcholics I know he didn’t set out to kill anyone. It is a disease and unlike many of the POS that we’ve seen featured, he is far less of a monster than many others on this site. Having siad that, five people including four children are dead because of his actions and choices. He has to face the consquences for that and if it comes to having to do forty years in prison, than so be it. May god have mercy on his soul.
Ah, I think I understand now. Because Michael was a “Christian” and a “good person” who made a “wrong decision” that automatically excuses what he did. Shame on the family of the deceased for wanting justice!
With the poor “logic” some of you have, it’s a wonder why there’s even laws against driving drunk, or any other crimes. Hell, as long as you’re a Christian, who gives a shit, right?
Not too sure I care that Mr. DUI has ‘learned from this experience’. I try not to learn my life experiences at the expense of other people, especially dead children and moms. I also try not to give other people ‘learning experiences’ by my selfish actions… such as learning that people who drive drunk are assholes, as the father has been forced to learn.
Mr. DUI has not forever lost 4 children and his wife, so I have little pity for him.
____________
Rich-
“It wasn’t an accident.
People keep tossing around “God Bless†and “also a good Christianâ€.
Being a Christian doesn’t in and of itself make one any better, or worse, than anyone else. Driving drunk is a pretty big step in the ‘bad’ direction if you ask me.
This is America. We have a constitutional right to throw stones.
Great comments.
_______________
I personally am suspicious of the story that Mr. DUI was shitfaced drunk, but craved Taco Bell so badly that he swiped keys and then swiped out half a family.
Drunks are usually barfing, not jonesing for fast food… sounds more like he was suffering more from the MJ munchies, IYKWIM.
I think xianity has gotten so watered down that every Tom, Dick and Mr. DUI are automatically considered xians by default, no matter that their actions clearly prove they are not.
The only accident here is that the poor family weren’t delayed by a dirty diaper or something, so they’d miss this carbomb. But then, no doubt it would just have ended up with someone else dead instead, eh? Some other unlucky victim. Ever notice how the almost always kill the other passengers, but rarely die themselves?
c
What a goddamn tragedy…(oh no i said the ‘god’ word) anyway, for those of you interested, the victim’s family has a memorial page set up (you can link from her myspace) were you can donate whatevee, if you’d like. Sorry i don’t remember what the actual url is, but i know you can use your paypal to send donations also, to “bethanyandtheangels@gmail.com”
What a goddamn tragedy…(oh no i said the ‘god’ word) anyway, for those of you interested, the victim’s family has a memorial page set up (you can link from her myspace) were you can donate whatever, if you’d like. Sorry i don’t remember what the actual url is, but i know you can use your paypal to send donations also, to “bethanyandtheangels@gmail.com”
glory…
i know lots of people who get the munchies when drunk. at least my friend does. i guess that’s just one person other than Mike. but my friend is a lame ass and doesn’t have a license and drive so he won’t be swiping any families out any time soon.
does anybody else see a Richard Ramirez resemblence? it’s erky.
They have the right idea in Canada:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/01/04/bc-drivethrucops.htm
There are two types of drunks:
Ones that will drive while intoxicated and ones who won’t. The ones who won’t drive after a single beer generally won’t drive after twenty beers either.
Not only does Gagnon fall into the latter category but he must be an idiot to boot. How do you drive 4 miles down the freeway in the wrong direction and not notice that something is amiss?
Drinking yourself to .24 BAC when you have a wife and kids at home already makes you an irrisponsible asshole regardless of how many designated drivers you have at your disposal. Many, many people have died from less drinking.
I just keep looking at the photo of that car seat in the road and I’m speechless. Gagnon is lucky the cops had enough restraint not to throw him into traffic to give him a taste of his own medicine and save us all the cost of prosecuting this waste of space.
My intention was NOT to compare Mike to Hilter, but rather to show that even the worst POS *IS* likeable by someone.
And yes, Christinity is way watered down. By today’s version of Christainity Jesus Christ himself would be considered a rude trouble maker, to say the least!
Being Christain (to me) is *NOT* about being nice, it’s about being good and trying to do the right thing.
Christains, being individuals, will disagree on what the right thing is.
So Anaon – Mile grabbed the keys and slipped out. He did not ask permission. He knew that he was doing wrong, or atleast something that would piss one of you off. I suspect that he’s driven drunk before, or atleast buzzed as to have enough confidence as to plan to drive over 4 miles and use a highway as well.
While alcoholism is a disease, unlike cancer, if an alcoholic does NOTHING, (as in NOT drink) the worst thing that they have to deal with are cravings or the DT’s. A cancer victim doing nothing suffers and dies.
whoa…. a lot of opinionated people out there… and a lot of harsh words for something that doesn’t even personally affect most of you….
a few said that they have “been sooo drunk before, yet they were able to make good decisions” (paraphrasing) but i have to disagree, perhaps you weren’t sooo drunk. have any of you blacked out before? alcohol shuts down your central nervous system, so if one were to drink sooo much (without dying from alcohol poisoning first) i guarantee that you would be zombified. you may be walking, and talking, but you’re not really there. i can say this from experience, as i’m sure many of you can as well, though you may not care to admit it. losing control is a frightening experience.
this whole thing is a tragic mistake, and nothing
more. there is no reason to point fingers. mr. gagnon made a grievous error, one that he will have to live with for the rest of his life.
my heart goes out to both families involved.
devil’s advocate (now i’m gonna look like an asshole): why was it that this family was unable to avoid collision? as in, if so many other individuals were able to avoid hitting mr. gagnon, and phone the police to let them know that this guy was driving like a jack-ass; was there something that perhaps may have distracted the driver of the van? there were 6 kids in this car, yes?
I KNOW THAT MR. GAGNON WAS DRUNK AND THE COLLISION WAS HIS FAULT.
“one that he will have to live with for the rest of his life. ”
Um, yeah, that’s probably what has a few people miffed. That he has a ‘whole rest of his life’, since 5 other people do not, because of him.
And, you are wrong about it being the victim’s fault because they somehow were not able to get out of the drunk POS’s way.
It’s the victim’s fault because the dad was not a deadbeat, and was returning his kids after visitation. If he had just abandoned them like he should have, there would have been less children asleep in the van to be ‘distracting’ the driver. Sleeping children are annoying that way, eh?
It’s also their fault they weren’t richer so that they could have been driving a Hummer. Or flying in their private helicopter.
Gee, that looks pretty stupid when written down.
Putting salt instead of sugar into the batter when you’re making pancakes is a ‘mistake’.
Killing over half of someone’s family because you spent the day getting drunk in your cousin’s bar (where cops find drugs/needles in the filing cabinet…do xians usually spend all day partying and hanging with drug users?), then snagging your brother’s keys because getting a .99cent Chalupa is more important to you than avoiding slaughtering a man’s wife and kids….
Mistake? Not so much.
I’m glad you’re so kind as to allow your heart to go out to BOTH families. I seriously doubt that at least one of those families does not consider all of this to be just a sad, tragic mistake. I’m guessing they’d think it was something else altogether.
c
c
from what some of the news reports stated the van was rounding a curve of some sort. poor kids
I do not wish to respond to all the religious talk about this particular article. Instead, I would like to just say that for the first time on this site, I voted no to hell. Why??? Because as far as I know, this was not an evil man, just a stupid man, who made a stupid mistake that thousands of people do daily, including I’m sure many of you. I’m sure he didn’t think he was too drunk to drive, and he never intended on killing that poor family. He will live with this all his life thinking about those he killed. I just hope that he stops drinking at this point, and makes a positive change in his life.
And I do feel those children are definitly with God in Heaven.
I’ve made some pretty big mistakes in my life, but I’m pretty sure I’ve never drove drunk and wiped out a family.
To the Family of Michael Gagnon
I’ve read your grammatically incorrect and horribly inappropriate apologies.
“The sudden and devastating loss of such innocent lives, those that did not have the chance to make much of an impact upon those outside of the immediate family, is a loss of unbearable tolerance.”
I’ve read your claim that this was merely an “accident” or a bad “decision,” but I think you miss what this really was. I think you need to get this through your heads before another member of your clan kills someone like your brother Michael did.
This was not an accident. Not in the eyes of the law and not in the eyes of anyone else involved. Your brother has had more than a few problems with responsibility, hasn’t he?
He couldn’t pay his car insurance on time, yet he found plenty of time and money to drink. He had his license suspended, and be honest, the last time he drove drunk, you said nothing. His relationships, you looked the other way when he floundered around. His college grades, what were they like again? And he wanted to be an Architect? Seriously, how were his math grades?
Let me tell you about Bethany. Bethany was the sort of mother who worked, went to school to be a nurse and still found time to hand sew Lacie’s Mermaid Princess costume for Halloween. Her favorite food was Crab, and she could reel them in with net or string. She was a Ravens fan to distraction and she made purple cheerleading outfits for Lacie and Haley, as well as Ravens witch outfits for them when the big tailgate parties were on.
When I found out that everyone but Dan was asleep in the car, I sighed with a very small amount of relief. They never saw your brother kill them and their suffering was probably brief.
You talk about “standing by” Michael and where your prayers are, but you need to get off your knees for a moment and think about what really needs to be done. Michael should prepare a plea of guilty and ask for the maximum sentence possible. It will save Dan, Jodie and Jack all of the trouble of coming to his trials and sentencing. Perhaps Michael can write a book in prison that will help keep drunk drivers off the road. Who knows, he might find some sort of useful thing to do in lock up that he never would have found drinking and taking steroids(that’s what human growth hormone is used for) at your cousin’s bar.
But to weigh his life against those of Haley, Lacie, Jordan and Vadie, simply because they’re young? To measure Michael against Bethany? Learn from his mistakes and repeat after me.
“This was not an accident; this was entirely Michael’s fault. He committed 5 murders, as surely as if he had pointed a gun at the horizon, fired randomly and killed five people. Michael should plea guilty and save these families a great deal of pain and suffering.”
Perhaps your entire family should take a lesson in responsibility and where it should be placed.
Get a life jason,everyone knows about you!!!
Knows what about me?
That I’m a Computer Programmer in North Carolina, was a friend of Bethany and Dan’s?
Have the facts on your son?
Precisely what is it you think should make me ashamed of who “I” am?
If this really is Clara Gagnon your focus should be on slowing down the effect Alcohol, Marijuana, and Clenbuterol have on your own family and by extension the people they kill with their use.
Yes I heard about this terrible incident all the way over the other side of the world. No I will not call this an accident as it is not an accident.
To Mikes family member was it an accident that his brother allowed him to take the keys to his truck?
Was it an accident that his pregnant sister (how would she feel having her baby leave the life it was just brought into) didn’t take all the keys to all the vehicles of all the people who were drinking that night.
Was it an accident that Mikes cousin allowed him to get so drunk but not provide food in a Bar & Grill to prevent the need to go and get food.
As far as I am concerned everyone of Mikes family who was at that bar and the people serving the alcohol at the bar should be charged as an accessory to murder.
If you know you are going to party til you are that drunk (obviously you knew when you booked 3 rooms of the adjacent hotel) Then the keys should have been removed from every person who walked through that door as they walked through that door or made to hand over their keys with payment of or in exchange of their first alcoholic beverage.
How do people not know that someone has taken your keys and walked out of a bar? The excuse the bar was too crowded is lame surely there is a legal limit to the amount of patrons. I am guessing the pregnant sister was too tired and the stupid ass brother handed over his keys to the moron mike.
There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for what this Moronic asshole did. This was no accident he made the choice to leave that bar. He made the choice to get in that car. He made the choice to drive drunk. He made the choice to go down the off ramp. He made the choice to continue travelling the wrong way. As someone else said he had 4miles to realise that it wasn’t the other drivers going the wrong way. He made the choice not to pull over and turn the car around. See NO ACCIDENT all choices. This Guy deserves life sentences for every life he took by choice. Every person involved the designated driver, the owners of the bar, the brother, the family who were so negligent the did not notice he left, the people who served this asshole so much alcohol he was 3 times the American legal Limit & 5 times the Australian legal limit all deserve the minimum penalty as I believe they were as much as fault as he was.
Would be very interested to hear the answers to my questions Mikes Relative. You seem to make a lot of excuses for this moron but how bout some answers as to how this was allowed. When his sisters baby is born ask her how she would feel if someone like her brother were to come along & take that precious life from her & next time she may just consider to get off her fat pregnant ass & do the job she was assigned to do.
I also believe that this asshole should be tortured for everyone of the innocent lives he so senselessly took. I personally would love to carve everyone of the victims name in to a part of his body and have him suffer through every cut.
The Judge will be reading this,careful,talking about cutting a person up,sounds like murder to me
The Judge will be reading this and all this talk about cutting someone up sounds like just talk about cutting someone up. Seriously, lady. Get your head out of your ass.
I am a close friend of the people that died at the hands of the drunk driver.
To the sister: SHUT UP. We don’t want your lame apology, we don’t care who he is. It means NOTHING. You and your friends are enablers. He was responsible for the crash. You are responsible for him having keys in his pocket. What kind of people would let that happen?
YOU MAKE ME SICK.
Guess what,we all now about you too,and you are not a family,so know one cares about your comments.The Lord knows eveyones heart,so remember that!!!!!!!!
Everyone cares about common sense, which you are clearly lacking. Living in denial must bode really well for you and your family. How is that working out for all of you?
Keep praying, you’ll need it. Do some good with what you have left of your pathetic life. Instead of enabling and preaching stupid why don’t you join M.A.D.D.? You could then speak the truth on how your kind enables death and work against. Your God will then ultimately save you. For your son, you should work towards something productive rather than scouring the internet trying to defend a wrong.
For the record, you wouldnt know “family” if it bit you in the ass.
Seems to me that mother here knows about everything and everyone…except the truth about Micheal.
Jason-
I think you’ve said it better than anyone else could.
c
hey GloryHole, never heard the term devil’s advocate before? great job missing my point.
Jason – “This was not an accident. Not in the eyes of the law….”
wrong, it was. that’s why he will be charged with vehicular MANSLAUGHTER. it’s tragic, yes; but this was not premeditated. he will be tried by the state, and the family of the victims need not be there. if they press civil charges, then yes, but not otherwise.
if this bothers you, then i suggest you write to the governor ohio and/or it’s state representatives to change the current law.
Just by looking at Sam’s myspace, you can see how white trash their family and circle of friends really are. Fuck that piece of shit Mike and fuck his fucking family. I could care the fuck less what the Gagnon family is going through at this time, beacause all those ‘statements’ coming from them seem a bit too unauthentic.
Only god can judge.
Everything happens for a reason, and it is not ANY of our places to put judgment on someone who is no better than we are ourselves.
My heart goes out to BOTH families.
How many people do YOU know that has drove drunk? Gotten into a drunken accident, or an accident of any kind under some substance?! How many people do YOU know that has died from drunk drivers?
Stay strong.
We will always love you back home.
Some Gal – “wrong, it was. that’s why he will be charged with vehicular MANSLAUGHTER. it’s tragic, yes; but this was not premeditated. he will be tried by the state, and the family of the victims “need not be there. if they press civil charges, then yes, but not otherwise.
if this bothers you, then i suggest you write to the governor ohio and/or it’s state representatives to change the current law.”
“(A) No person, while operating or participating in the operation of a motor vehicle, motorcycle, snowmobile, locomotive, watercraft, or aircraft, shall cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another’s pregnancy in any of the following ways:
(1)(a) As the proximate result of committing a violation of division (A) of section 4511.19 of the Revised Code or of a substantially equivalent municipal ordinance;”
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2903.06
and
(A)(1) No person shall operate any vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley within this state, if, at the time of the operation, any of the following apply:
(a) The person is under the influence of alcohol, a drug of abuse, or a combination of them.”
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.19
It makes the crime 1st degree Aggravated Vehicular Manslaughter, which is by absolute definition under Ohio State Law, premeditated. Do you see the word Accident there? Nope… the reason why is because Accidents are lesser charges.
I’m a computer programmer in real life, but I was and still am a friend to Bethany and Dan until the day I die. I’m not a lawyer, but I am an American citizen with as much right and responsibility to read the laws of the states I work in and visit.
I don’t need to write to the Ohio State legislature to get the laws changed, they already changed them in 2002 and again in 2005 because murderers like Gagnon kept on killing people in their state.
Drunk Driving is not an accident. It is machismo garbage, wrapped up in a defiance of law, alongside a self-destructive side that usually takes lives with it.
-Sarah R
“How many people do YOU know that has drove drunk? Gotten into a drunken accident, or an accident of any kind under some substance?! How many people do YOU know that has died from drunk drivers?”
Judging from your sentence structure, you may in fact be a member of the family or more specifically the sister, who has across the internet been defending your brother with these religious quotes.
Our legal code, despite opposition in Congress by some, remains a secular establishment of rules that protect us from people in this world, not the next. Many who fight the inclusion of “Under God,” and the establishment of 10 commandment monuments in legal halls, don’t do it because they are Godless heathens, but because it would open juries to hearing defenses based solely on “Only God can judge.”
Luckily, our juries can be protected from this tripe for a little bit longer. Christ did not free the thieves he was crucified with, he tried very hard to convert them. The application of law was not his justice, but a postmortem that saves the immortal. Perhaps you have already heard from Michael’s lawyer that you should rush to his defense and stand strong, but what you’re doing is defending his crime, not merely the person and that is not right.
Jason, I am forced to agree with much of what you have written.
Dismissing the crime as ‘a mistake’ does nothing so much as devalue the lives of the victims, which further infuriates those of us who are friends of the Griffin family.
Mr. Gagnon made a series of choices that led to him (a) committing a crime and (b) as a consequence of that crime, killing our friends. No amount of “He’s really devastated.” or “He’s really a good guy.” is going to alter that.
When he is sentenced to prison, as well he should be, his family will have yet another excuse to hold yet another alcohol splashed gathering and lament about how “Life’s not fair!”.
As an ex-cop and a former judge, I agree, life isn’t fair. If life were fair, our friends would still be alive despite Mr. Gagnon’s miserable choices of that evening, he and the hundreds of other drunken drivers would injure none but themselves, but, sadly, that isn’t the case, is it?
And Abi? You’re scary….
Someone wrote about the fact that Gagnon got 4 miles down the highway before he hit the Griffin family. A good question was posed – the fact that other people were able to avoid Gagnon.
Maybe someone was ahead of Griffin and this person avoided Gagnon, but unfortunately for Griffin, maybe he saw Gagnon too late as a result.
Maybe Griffin would have gotten by Gagnon if Gagnon did not try to avoid the accident as well, if one went to his left and the other went to his right, the evassive actions of both put them on a second colision course (when I am looking at you and you at me, my left is your right) with no time for a redo
Someone mentioned a curve – many of the curves on the highways can look deceptive at night, so I look atthe lines in the road to verify that the road is curving verses a colisin coarse with a wrong way driver
Also wrong way drivers are so rare that maybe it took Griffin a few too many seconds to register what was really happening (esp if there is a curve involved)
I hope that the Gagnon family’s bar is SHUT DOWN! I hope that they find new jobs in which they have no authority or respnsibility for the health or safety of any breathing being. Let them grow corn – to me the real thing that they are most sorry about is the fact that they know that they are liable for what happened and know that their future as a bunch of drunks with theur own bar is in jepardy.
Thus blaming Dan Griffin makes about as much sense to me as blaming the people who were located in floors above the point of impact in the North Tower of the Trade Center for their own deaths. Wrong place, wrong time
I’ve read over these post and I would just like to point out a few things. I have a very close circle of friends. We normally go out once a week and get pretty drunk. Everyone either works or goes to school during the week, so on Fridays or Saturdays we all get together, complain and drink lots of alcohol. This has been a ritual for almost a year. We have never, not once, got behind the wheel after drinking, and we have never not once gotten into a car with someone that had been drinking. We designate a driver, or we call a cab. And our driver, always..always..takes away keys. And our favorite bar is always packed, and if I see one person missing from our little group, I am immediately searching. That’s the honest to goodness truth. We take care of each other. I don’t blame Mike’s family for what happened, because if Mike was supposed to be “so responsible” he wouldn’t need someone to baby sit him, right? WRONG! He did need someone to hold his hand and tell him he couldn’t leave. Doesnt sound like a very responsible person to me. And as I said before, I get pretty drunk, and I still know never to get behind the wheel. Never. Oh and..an accident is when a sober person gets into a car crash and kills someone, this wasn’t an accident. This was a choice. A choice that Mike made himself.
Jason-
Wow you touch on a LOT of really good points. It’s needed. You know fact and bring a lot of common sense like a few of us; yet at the same time don’t blast the internet with religious words. Some things that are left out from the illiterate human beings on this site who seemingly and constantly defend these POS like Michael.
On the other hand as far as the bar being closed: I’m sure that if it’s not closed it will be losing a lot of business over this. I mean a LOT.
I’m sure he’s going to have civil lawsuits, but the county might need to be careful to. 26 minutes is a lot of time to respond to a call like this. I mean 4 miles and it took them 26 minutes. I know that (if I was family) after I was done dealing with Michael and a civil suit with family pictures all over the court room I would probably see my chances at something towards the county/state. I’m sure how it would go but I would do it in a heartbeat.
Jason- thanks for the info, but you need to separate your emotion from your logic. yes, ohio law is very strict in its OVI/DUI law, but what mr. gagnon will officially be convicted of (perhaps i should not have said charged before) depends on how stringently the court responds to his case.
“Impairment due to alcohol or other drugs may be used as a partial defense. This occurs if the defendant is charged with murder or voluntary manslaughter and the defendant’s impairment level is so high that it affects the defendant’s intent to kill. When this happens, murder and voluntary manslaughter may be mitigated to a lesser crime, like involuntary manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide.”
http://definitions.uslegal.com/v/vehicular-homicide/
as this case has been reported on a global scale, i believe that the court will be under close scrutiny, and will impose its full authority (as well it should), but one cannot deny that mr. gagnon was over three times the legal limit, and by all means, was out of his mind.
to touch on the infamy of this incident once more; if mr. gagnon had slammed into a van of mexican migrant workers, or a convict transfer, he would hardly have received this much attention. the fact that he destroyed a family is what made this a media sensation – this being said, why should one person’s life be more precious or valuable than another’s?
Ron B – “his family will have yet another excuse to hold yet another alcohol splashed gathering….”
a former cop and judge, eh? would hate to have been in your court. i’m sure you’ve seen allot of dirt bags in your day, but that is no reason to make presuppositions. his family was holding a new years party, correct? as i reckon, those such gatherings are fairly commonplace in this country.
Some Gal-
I’ll assume you just made a typo in your classy response to me.
When my sons pissed their pants when they were little, it was an ‘accident’. This was not. Nice try, though.
If this gets off on ‘manslaughter’, it’s still manslaughter, otherwise it would be called ’3rd degree accident’, or something like that.
If it was really an ‘accident’, that would be something like…… he was not drunk, he was driving the speed limit, and his brakes failed through no fault of his own. Then, no matter how many people he killed, he would not face any charges, because it would have been an accident.
The fact that Mr. DUI is facing any charges at all speaks directly to his culpability in the matter, no matter how you want to word it.
I also doubt the bar will be open very soon, given the drugs that were found in it.
c
“some gal on January 7th, 2008 1:16 pm
Jason- thanks for the info, but you need to separate your emotion from your logic. yes, ohio law is very strict in its OVI/DUI law, but what mr. gagnon will officially be convicted of (perhaps i should not have said charged before) depends on how stringently the court responds to his case.”
Mr. Gagnon has been officially charged with 5 counts of Aggravated Vehicular Manslaughter, which is surprisingly only covered in the 2 items I posted above. It’s a First Degree, Premeditated crime punishable by fine (probably waved due to no income) and up to 10 years of prison time per count. It is entirely separate from “accident” law which he can actually be convicted of entirely separate from the 5 listed counts. In addition, Gagnon can be cited for resisting arrest, interfering with a medical aid worker in the performance of their duties, fleeing the scene of a crime (Taco Bell; a stretch but while you’re whipping a dead horse, pile it on), Reckless Driving, Reckless Endangerment (remember those people he passed?), and a host of other laws, misdemeanors and infractions of the law.
Your legal dictionary is a useful one, except where specific state law supersedes it. I thank you for your efforts to make yourself more plain, but I assure you that since making my post, I am now researching this with every resource I have available, including my own legal counsel.
While you are correct that Bethany’s Death along with the death of her children is eating me alive emotionally, I retain a hard core of logic in this endeavor that is both persistent and thorough. My instinctual motivations might be to consider anyone related to Mr. Gagnon as an enemy who must be destroyed, but my more civilized manners recognize that only Michael and his enablers are to blame.
As to “out of his mind,” the burden has shifted in legal circles from one where his altered state can provide protection from punishment to one of a statement of intent in his actions being required. Why did he drink to such an altered state?
His level of intoxication is often times considered suicidal, which means he didn’t care what he did or who he hurt. That lends itself to negligent homicide, don’t you think?
As to the attention Gagnon’s crash has caused, I urge you to recognize something. If I had known one of your hypothetical migrant workers or convicts as well as I knew Bethany, I would have still been here slamming him and his family members for defending him as hard and with as much force. Your argument is illogical, his life was not worth Bethany’s and the others, it was not worth a van full of migrant workers, it was not worth a bus full of convicts. His actions were only worth his own death, absolutely no one else should have been killed because he chose to drink too much and get behind the wheel.
As to your comments to Ron; Ron is another one of Bethany’s friends. One who just so happens to revile me because of my normally, extremely liberal demeanor(despite all outward appearances in this argument), but with whom I have sparred on legal, theological and social grounds to the utter frustration of each. That completely aside, his grudging agreement with me is exactly what it seems: The opinion of a former judge and police officer who knows what they’re talking about.
I’m not arguing over anything but textualism here. The words are what they are, Gagnon’s actions are what they are, and Bethany and her daughters are dead.
If you’re an attorney, can provide me with the opinion of an opposing viewed attorney or officer of the court, or are able to unearth some aspect of law or case law that refutes these points, I would greatly appreciate it. While I am not helping the family in the preparation of their own legal efforts, this and donations and emotional support are the only things I can do.
some gal –
when you take a families life from a choice you made you’re life is fucking worthless thus far. If my dad had killed someone when he got his DUI I don’t think I could forgive him and hell he’s my DAD.
certain situations call for certain judgements and therefore some peoples life more valuable then people like this.
I don’t understand how they’re are some lawyers who actually try to get people like this off the hook. them and murderes.
murderers*
–Brittany
“I don’t understand how they’re are some lawyers who actually try to get people like this off the hook. them and murderers.”
I don’t deny him his right to legal counsel.
I just counsel him to be just and choose the maximum sentence possible when he pleads guilty.
I do not deny his family the right to speak on his behalf and attempt to apologize.
I refute their feeble attempts to voice those concerns and belittle the crime or argue for an alternate venue (God’s rather than this world’s).
As to what sort of Lawyers can try this, I have an answer because I have met two different types.
The first type is an honest, strict Constiutionalist that believes that the defense must use every method possible to obtain the victim’s freedom, regardless of guilt, else they cannot serve as effective counsel. The crime is smaller than the crime committed against the Constitution and the law if they fail to give the accused the best defense possible.
The second type is dishonest, is willing to do anything for money and/or the thrill of the win. The attraction of murder cases and those involving death is that the accused has the greatest to lose so the gamble is a greater game to them.
I can respect but despise the first, but the second can only be despised.
fair enough.
Gagnon, gag on this, and enjoy your stay in hell.
You too Abi.
Phelps, funny!
I literally hope he gets assfucked for the rest of his life in prison. He deserves NO LESS.
You can battle it out in legal terms- here, and eventually in court, but nothing is going to change these facts:
One person, who chose to drink, and then chose to drive illegally intoxicated (has any panel come back to show if he’d partaken of the bar’s drug stash?), refused to stop driving when other people pointed out his intoxication, and ended up taking out over half of a family….all because he thought getting himself food from Taco Bell was more important, and he couldn’t wait to let some sober family member get it for him.
I’d like to see the receipt for exactly what he bought at that Taco Bell, so that I could see exactly how much he thought this family’s lives were worth. Does anyone know this info?
I’d also like to know why he couldn’t have gotten his Chalupa, eaten it in the parking lot and promtly passed out, as most decent drunks would do. The fact that he continued to insist on driving tells me that Mr. DUI was very used to being drunk, to the point of the type of alcohol tolerance that bypasses they normal passing out or barfing.
I have read that drunks only get caught driving a small percentage of all the times they’d previously driven drunk before. Not to mention, they often drive drunk many times after they’ve been nailed for it.
Nothing against drunks. They can be amusing. When they stop being amusing, you take their keys. I have hidden people’s keys at my house before, and I have called them cabs. I used to work as a cocktail waitress, and when I saw people shitfaced, if their keys were anywhere visible I would put them behind the bar and force them to taxi home.
My ex’s whole family are drunks. Which can be amusing at family get-togethers, since they all sleep over and don’t drive. The ex, though… not so much. He’d slug back 6-8 drinks in a couple of hours and then insist he was ok to drive. I remember one big fight after an office xmas party where he was insisting on driving the hour home while shitfaced. I was 7 months pregnant and sober, but he wouldn’t let me drive. I refused to get in the car, and booked a hotel room in that town to avoid it. He ended up sleeping in the car. There’s a reason he’s an ex, eh?
Luckily, all his years of alcohol abuse trashed his kidneys, and he had to have one removed a couple years ago. Now he can’t drink without getting sick, which makes me breathe easier thinking about our boys in the car with him.
Drunk drivers suck. Think of all the heartache Mr. DUI could have avoided for the family he killed, as well as his own family, if he’d have just spent the few bucks on a taxi. Pathetic.
c
jason – i genuinely appreciate your rational response. but you (and brittany) misinterpreted my analogy involving the media sensationalism surrounding this case. gagnon killed a middle-class white family after leaving a new years party; if he had killed a bus load of convicts/migrant workers in june, the media would not have caused such as stir as they have, and i’m sure this site would not have made him a target.
*shrug and sigh*: we all know the statistics, at any given point in time there are more drunk drivers on the road then you could shake the proverbial stick at, and some of these dd’s inevitably and regrettably cause such fatal events that befell the griffin family.
it’s no secret that our news outlets deliberately pick and choose the most tragic stories to feature, and this incident happened to fit the bill in a timely fashion.
leading me to this: to those who wish ill will upon gagnon and family, why focus on this guy when there are so many “evil” drunk drivers out there?
Obsessive-compulsive haters – here’s a real winner for you: Clinton Haskins
cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/03/earlyshow/contributors/tracysmith/main671470.shtml
prohibition will never work, even today in dry counties people still find a way to get their drink on. people do drugs, people kill other people; there is no utopia on this planet.
so what are we to do? we create a police force and a legal system to deal with those people who just don’t give a f*ck (or made bad decisions) in a just and appropriate manner.
you may not believe this (and i don’t care either way) but my best friend was killed while riding in a car driven by a man on drugs, with a suspended license. i was very angry and distraught for a long time (especially due to the sentence the driver received). my advice to you – let go of that anger as soon as possible. do something constructive with it; join a local MADD chapter and share your story, try and make an impact. i know others here have been quick to dismiss religion, but just think on this – no major religious association (excluding satanism) promotes carrying a grudge. life is suffering, let it go; forgive and forget, etc. what goes around comes around, and if gagnon doesn’t get what’s coming to him from our justice system, i’m sure he’ll get it by some other means.
put your rational hats back on and stop trashing his family. this same thing could happen to anyone of your children, cousins, aunts, uncles, and so on (and don’t even think for a second that it isn’t possible).
be careful what you put out there, it all comes back.
oh, glory – “manslaughter- the general term for the killing of a person by another is homicide; murder is either the intentional killing or malicious killing of another; manslaughter is the unintentional, ACCIDENTAL killing of another through carelessness.”
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/manslaughter
don’t argue semantics with me.
Thank you!!
Some Gal-
“but you (and brittany) misinterpreted my analogy involving the media sensationalism surrounding this case. gagnon killed a middle-class white family after leaving a new years party; if he had killed a bus load of convicts/migrant workers in june, the media would not have caused such as stir as they have, and i’m sure this site would not have made him a target.”
You don’t have a handle on all of the facts here. Gagnon killed Bethany and her daughters on December 30th, at 11:00 PM (the article above is mistaken) at a Christmas party where 40 members of Gagnon’s family were partying at the bar. The Bar is owned by his cousins.
The Bar was raided by police where they found steroids, human growth hormone, syringes, over $15,000 in receipt-less cash, and what may be a vial of GHB.
The vehicle used in the assault (look it up) was a 2005 F350, that if bought the day before the crash had a value of $18,635. In his court appearance, Michael claimed a salary of 300 dollars a week, so a judge would provide him a public defender. Samuel Gagnon stated that he and his brother both worked in construction.
The family has engaged the services of Richard “Rick” Sanders of the legal firm of millercanfield dot com .
Their website programmers are apparently morons or not security minded, so if you put a percent sign in the lawyer search field under name you can get a listing of every lawyer in the firm (This is an opening for a SQL attack and should be closed, as it means this is a direct interface to their SQL server based on a LIKE statement and could be used to tie up and destroy their website). The page goes on and on. The file I pulled has over 100 names, but more importantly it lists Sanders specialty. Sanders does not have much case law or legal review to read, but his primary specialties are Litigation, settlement and appeals. We estimate his hourly at 1000 dollars an hour.
This is an expensive firm for a family that has claimed economic hardship in their “public apologies.”
The apologies followed the so called rule of three of modern marketing. The general appeal (the brother’s apology), the impassioned appeal (the family’s apology, championed by the sister) and the guilt appeal (brought forth by the mother of the accused). They were in rapid succession, put to several newspapers, and are a standard defense lawyer practice to get family opinions stated as facts in newspapers so they can then be submitted to juries as supporting evidence.
Now, let’s move on to the sensationalism aspect of this. I make no bones with you that a mother and 4 daughters being killed by a Drunk Driver the day before New Year’s Eve, is going to make national news. I even don’t begrudge you the racial aspect, except that I know who Bethany was.
Middle class, outgoing, friend of hundreds, if not thousands and able to maintain most of those friendships at an extremely high level of personal contact. Her friends include people scattered across more than 30 states and varied specializations, race and income. If this hadn’t made it to the national news within minutes of it happening, it would have been there within days, not weeks anyway. I hope I’ve provided enough valid, verifiable information to make this one unsupported boast, but Bethany was loved by many people, and in this world of interconnections those people know people by relation or proxy who know everyone else in this country.
Michael didn’t kill the President or a Hollywood elite, he killed a working man’s equivalent. A rock star of her home, PTA, church, and civilization. I admit there’s a force multiplier in publicity when you add Vadie to the equation, but seriously this was a special person with massive appeal. If a Migrant worker had the same connections, you’d still be seeing an outpouring of anger and grief that would stretch the imagination and have you searching for the angle.
The details above prove nothing, they just promote conspiracy theories and a growing sense of mistrust built on extremely passionate and real anger. Add thousands of people who miss their friend to the families and friends of those thousands and you start to get a stirring, boiling attitude looking for more and more answers.
Again with the manslaughter quote, I need you to think very carefully about what the word means when added to “Aggravated Vehicular.” Law is word smithing and semantics. The modifier means as much or more than the object. A method used by some is what is called subtractive definitions. Programmers use it when they code and sculpt an object. You take something that is known and you constrain it or add to it, thus deleting specific “words” in the definition of the object. It’s a function of logic and so has an analog in Legal terms. Aggravated subtracts out Accidental and a few other things because it is the combination of the crime that was committed plus some other crime or series of crimes that makes the crime compositely more severe. Don’t believe me? What’s the difference between Assault and Aggravated Assault?
To stress, I’m not trying to slam you, call you stupid, or even to make you personally feel bad, but I am trying to make you abandon your faulty position and see that the definition is outside of the scope you’ve chosen to embrace. I would prefer you be my “friend” in this, and thus become a friend of Bethany as the facts of this case continue to unfold. I understand the appeal of the Devil’s advocacy, but there’s far fewer ways to read this than you originally suspected, correct?
correction
I said:
“You don’t have a handle on all of the facts here. Gagnon killed Bethany and her daughters on December 30th, at 11:00 PM (the article above is mistaken) at a Christmas party where 40 members of Gagnon’s family were partying at the bar. The Bar is owned by his cousins.”
it should have been, after he left a Christmas party where 40 members of his family were partying at a Bar and Hotel.
Additions:
The family claimed to only have rented 3 rooms for 40 people, the sister-in-law claimed to be the designated driver but did not have the keys, and the bar claims to be a grill, yet Michael went 528 yards down the street for Taco Bell, and then started on his way back the wrong side of the highway towards the same cut-off he would have used to return to Adrian Michigan where he was staying.
admin – nice catch – article above has been changed to reflect the proper date. Thanks for pointing it out!
To the admin,
Thank you for the article. It’s very cathartic for me to dump all of the facts I’ve been collecting on a public forum. If you’d like a few more pieces I can give them to you.
Bethany and all of the kids were asleep, it really is one of the only ways I can sleep at night these days.
Jacob was the name of the Taco Bell drive-thru attendant who called 911 to get Gagnon off the road. If Gagnon’s actions will send him to hell, then Jacob’s actions deserve a place in Heaven.
The Taco bell was 528 yards away from the Rodeo Bar and Grill, door front to door front. That’s about 3.6 blocks. A right and then an immediate U-Turn would have put him headed back to the Rodeo Bar and Grill. He headed for the interstate. If he was going the right direction on the interstate he’d have been on the correct course to return to his home, 2 hours away in Adrian Michigan.
Dan was rounding a corner. There was no way he could see Gagnon.
Some gal- You are wrong about many things.
If some drunk POS had killed a van full of migrant workers, we would still be on here saying what a POS he was, even if the media did not make such a fuss about it. Who the people are that he killed is not as important as the fact that he killed 5 people.
And, I will argue semantics with anyone that I feel is twisting facts around to try to fit their slant, unless it is the admin and they ask me not to.
While I’m out ‘dealing with my pent-up anger’ in a more useful way (according to you), why don’t you go out and vent your obvious anger with people who don’t share that anger somewhere else, since I think that would be more healthy for you. Maybe I consider getting people like you to rethink their opinions on drunk drivers and other crimes, especially their soft take on relatives of POSs to be my way of being constructive.
In case you hadn’t guessed yet, this IS what some people think is a healthy and productive way of dealing with our anger, and we are intelligent enough to join up with MADD if that’s how we wanted to deal with it. But gee, thanks for all the useful suggestions.
Sheesh.
It seems to me that in order for something to have been an unintended death resulting from carelessness, one would have to not know that one’s carelessness could result in said deaths. Just because it was not premeditated does not mean it was accidental. Any moran could figure out that driving shitfaced drunk against the traffic on a freeway is likely to cause someone’s death.
The second the POS got behind the wheel, drunk, the ‘accidental’ part isn’t applicable. And if you want to rant on about legal technicalities, why don’t you save your breath? After all, this site asks people to vote on whether people should go to hell- that should clue you in a bit.
If bars can be legally held responsible for serving/allowing drunks to go on rampages, then famiy members, especially those operating and partying with said drunks, serving and not keeping them from driving, should be held responsible also. Maybe when people start thinking they actually have responsibility to other people to stop them from drunk driving, or abusing/molesting people, there will be a decrease in these stats. Putting your head in the sand, saying nothing can be done about it, saying it’s all a sad accident, looking the other way and not wanting to cause a ‘fuss’ about it isn’t going to help anyone at all.
Jason has the right take. More people should read what he says instead of all the drunk driver apologists.
c
Jason- Something is not right about the Taco Bell thing. Other people/blogs have brought up how close it was to the bar- just a few blocks.
Have you heard anything about the possibility that he wasn’t trying to go back to the bar at all? That he might have been headed somewhere else? Any word on any other calls besides the one where he told his brother ‘sorry’?
c
I cannot believe that there are so many people willing to come to the defense of a person who caused such a horrific accident. It would have been horrific no matter the color, gender, or economic status of the victims. His being intoxicated was not an accident, he is an adult who made the decision to drink to the point of excess. He may not have intended to hurt anyone, but his actions that night did nothing to prevent this tragedy.
I am even more appalled by the fact that some have even tried to blame the other driver for not “avoiding” Gagnon’s car. Well, I stand corrected! There must be a lot of innocent perpetrators in jail because their victim didn’t “avoid” the bullet that killed them, or “avoid” the knife that stabbed them. Nonsense!
Gagnon committed more than one crime that night, and he now faces the consequences. Just because a crime isn’t premeditated doesn’t make it less of a crime. The law may separate it by degrees, but it is still a crime.
As to Gagnon going to hell: that will depend on how he deals with what is to come. However, it has been my experience that few people who drink and drive only do it once.
jason – yes; adding “aggravated” to a charge does change it completely. the definition i posted was meant to clarify the term for glorybug, as she did not know the meaning.
you’ve reiterated your point for the third time, and i got it on the first sir. as for choosing sides? i think i’ve made myself clear; michael was in the wrong, and i don’t dispute that in the slightest! however, you need to recognize that what he is charged with may not be what he is convicted of. again, i’m sure the court will not go easy on him; but like it or not the high bac defense is still a valid defense, not to mention that he has no priors. letting his license slip into suspension for not paying a ticket will in no way adversely affect his standing on this charge.
“As to “out of his mind,†the burden has shifted in legal circles from one where his altered state can provide protection from punishment to one of a statement of intent in his actions being required. Why did he drink to such an altered state?”
don’t you think that his lawyer is well aware of this? michael is obviously not going to plead guilty outright, so i’m sure that he and his lawyer will come to the best defense possible. as to the quality of his lawyer, i’ve read some articles too; michael’s father is retired, and his mother is a beautician, not exactly millionaires. you get what you pay for.
“The family claimed to only have rented 3 rooms for 40 people, the sister-in-law claimed to be the designated driver but did not have the keys, and the bar claims to be a grill, yet Michael went 528 yards down the street for Taco Bell, and then started on his way back the wrong side of the highway towards the same cut-off he would have used to return to Adrian Michigan where he was staying.”
this is precisely why the high bac defense may be in play. would a rational person have made the same decisions as gagnon? no! and as i’m sure you’ve read, he stole a family members keys to go to taco bell; the $18,000+ truck wasn’t his vehicle, and he didn’t even have his there. as to bringing up the value of the vehicle, as an adult you should be aware that anyone with decent credit and some money down can lease a car with a value close to that (or more) on his wages. i don’t know what kind of car he drove, but if he was trying to start his own construction business, he may have put more of his income towards a decent vehicle, as this could help him make a better first impression. you can’t fault him for that.
i don’t know how he lived, or his family. i can only make assumptions in this matter, like your acquaintance ron; i just try to be a tad less judgmental, for lack of a better word. there are some sure fire rotten people on this rotten website, but i don’t think that this guy deserves to burn in hell.
we have no crystal ball, so no one can say for sure one way or the other how this will turn out.
i’m sure the advice i’ve gave in the latter 1/3 of my previous post fell on blind eyes; the wound is too fresh for you, and my words must feel like salt. but i hope that whatever the outcome you and the griffin family can find solace.
this site is awful; it focuses on anger and hate, and those are two things this world could do with a little less of. you want to learn about the kind of nasty people that are out there? check out the fbi or interpol’s most wanted, or turn on the news. i wouldn’t reckon a site like to bear much credibility. i was temporarily sucked into a vortex of ridiculous, and won’t be back here again.
We’ll miss you.
Some Gal – I’ll admit it may have not made such headlines if it was a van full of migrant workers…the difference?
This was a van full of fucking kids! Not because they were white but because it was children and amongst those children was an 8 week baby.
I’m sure if you didn’t know Michael (like you sound like you do) you’d be right on board with the rest of us.
If you don’t know him then maybe you’re crazy defending him and what have you but nonetheless he did what he did and the people enforced to stop him by being the designated driver failed at doing so. Therefore by the choices he made and reactions that took place he is an evil person. He didn’t have to drive and his family didn’t have to let him. There should’ve been extra precautions and there weren’t.
“Some Gal” you are an idiot. I’m glad you won’t be coming here anymore.
To GloryBug regarding the distance.
I’ve looked at the Google maps satellite image of that stretch of road. Looks like there’s a sidewalk from the bar to the Taco Bell. The Rodeo was a bar and grill, did they run out of food? Why did Michael need food or was he getting some caffeine for the road? Maybe the Kitchen closed at 10:00 at the bar?
And then I ask myself, was he on Alcohol and GHB. Was that unidentified jar, GHB?
As to the other tangent. Maybe he said his good byes. Maybe Samuel gave him the keys and said so long buddy, we’ll drive up to Iowa together. Maybe it was his intention to go home to Adrian all along. Maybe there were dogs to feed or something.
They had three rooms registered to them.
They had 40 people?
Some of them weren’t staying at the hotel… right?
This is speculation. This is conspiracy. This is where I actually feel the least comfort. Facts, I have a lot but I don’t know these details.
YOU PEOPLE ARE RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have known Mike for 10+ years, and he does NOT seserve to die, rot in hell, to be hung. I can’t believe you… Do you know him? Do you know what kind of man he was before any of this happened? NO I DON’T FUCKING THINK SO. People fuck up, and obviously since you all think that you are perfect you may think that you haven’t fucked up, but you have… I guaran-fuckin-tee it. I can’t believe the shit you people are saying about him. Michael is a good man. He has a great heart. He made a bad choice, and yes he should have to pay for it, and he will. In jail, and in his heart. He will have to live with this for the rest of his life. Killing 5 people, because of a bad decision he had made. And yesbeing that drunk, he probably didn’t know what he was doing at that time. No that doesn’t give him an excuse, but you people don’t have to make him out to be a monster… Good lord. It could have been any one of you, your son, your husband, ANYONE.
see we’re not saying he’s always been a monster but since he put the keys in the ignition he is a monster. plain and simple.
I agree Ashley….it could have been anyone that night it just happened to be Mike. Mike is a great guy, would do anything for anyone and all you so called Christians that are wishing bad things upon Mike….what kind of christian are you? We all need to just Love Mike and forgive him. God says that we should love everyone no matter what even our enemies, afterall are all God children. Jesus also tells us that sin is sin….no sin is worse then another in his eyes and who are all of you people to judge when in the end the only one who can judge is God. Yes I feel just aweful for what happened to that beautiful family but friends and family of the Burkmans sound so forgiving and they are praying for Mike and Loving him too….so why can’t all of you people see the light? We all need to forgive Mike for what he did….God has already forgave him afterall he died on the cross for us so our sins could be forgiven….come on people!!!! God Bless everyone involved.
oh man…i think I see the light!!!! ha ha ha ha
since we’re on the religious talk I always thought that Jesus on the cross was kinda S&M
ha ha ha ha JUST KIDDING! NO OFFENSE
brittany,
i am not going to say anything bad about you….i will just pray for you.
growing up teaching sunday school and summer camp then being ruthlessly dismissed and shunned down upon for being gay kinda has me bitter towards bible thumping christians.
I wasn’t serious about the s&m thing believe me there’s worse I could’ve said but things I wouldn’t have meant.
Ashley said
“No that doesn’t give him an excuse, but you people don’t have to make him out to be a monster… Good lord. It could have been any one of you, your son, your husband, ANYONE.”
Seriously? You think it could be a teetotaler? You think it could have been someone without keys in their pocket before they started drinking?
You think it could have been anyone?
“Mike is a great guy, would do anything for anyone and all you so called Christians that are wishing bad things upon Mike….what kind of christian are you? We all need to just Love Mike and forgive him. God says that we should love everyone no matter what even our enemies, afterall are all God children. … We all need to forgive Mike for what he did….God has already forgave him afterall he died on the cross for us so our sins could be forgiven….come on people!!!!”
Wow… throw open the doors to Charles Manson’s cell! Somebody give me a Shovel so I can “apologize” to the remains of Jeffry Dahlmer!
We revile your friend and brother because someone has been making the same mistake he has since before the first Ford rolled off the line and was sold to someone who would drink and drive. Someone else is going to do it again and end up the same way or worse. You tear your clothing and defend Michael but forget that by doing so you protect the crime with the criminal. You plead with us to let God judge him when that implies that God killed our friends with your brother as some kind of instrument? Do you truly deny free will?
You rant and you rave but you’ve never read the words of Christ if you missed the damn point this badly.
Matthew 36-40
36″Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37Jesus replied: ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
I would hate myself if I killed Bethany, Jordan, Haley, Lacie and Vadie as much as I hate your cousin, friend or brother or what have you. I would call myself a monster. Christ does not pardon us in this world, he pardons us in the next. He’s not here, remember?
You come here and curse me and everyone else here, but you accept none of the responsibility. Are you going to stop drinking so much? Maybe try to be a better designated driver? Maybe it’s time for you to give up drink?
You yell and say “He’s not a monster,” and I say to you, you’re making him a monster more than any of us. You’re implying that God is a monster, more than any of us. I’m not angry with God, because he does not force us to drive drunk. It’s a decision we make, first to drunkenness and then to defy laws.
And I repeat:
Christ did not pardon the thieves on the cross, he begged them to confess their sins so that they might be reborn. If he had meant no secular judgment, he’d have cut them down while he stayed up on the cross. I think it deplorable that they’d hold the Grand Jury on the day of Bethany’s funeral in Baltimore. I find it deplorable that you’d curse everyone because they don’t see your “golden” opinion of Mike, but nothing Mike ever did or even the sum of his whole life was worth the value of those 5. Nothing.
Brittany,
“growing up teaching sunday school and summer camp then being ruthlessly dismissed and shunned down upon for being gay kinda has me bitter towards bible thumping christians.”
They missed the point Brittany, I hope you didn’t, and I don’t think you did.
If I’m wrong, then at least you can keep my wife and I company when we finally find out.
I don’t understand? the point of what exactly?
Brittany,
Those who shunned you didn’t get the point.
The point of loving and treating your neighbor as yourself.
Oh yeah. I find that to be true in a lot of “Christians” Gay people are bad and going to hell! rwar.
It’s like F off
I can’t stand those bible bearing religious advocates. They are a bunch of hypocrites and it drives me crazy.
the brothers myspace is set to private…hmmm
(just looked at the myspace)
If I could fucking kill Michael myself I would. I would do it in the most toturous ways absolutely possible.
he better be sickened by himself. he should have to fucking stare at pictures of that baby.
Boy Oh Boy,You saying your going to kill my son,The Judge will be reading this too.I will be reporting you Brittany,thearting to kill my son.Jason probley knows the legal term for this.And yes,my spelling is bad.I hope you relize that this statment you made is horrbile.When this is all over Michael will be able to say things,he isnt aloud right now,he cant even look at his family in the court room.What happen was wrong and my son will spend time in prison . And the Prison in his mind will never go away for the rest of his life.My prayers are always with the Griffins and Burkmans Families.
Please, I hope the Judge gets to read every word, including those spoken by Michael’s “Supporters.” The ones who think that alcohol is a viable excuse for killing people.
Get every last alcoholic and drug abuser in your family in treatment and protect the rest of the population from them. Stop trying to be the Manson family of alcoholics and treat this.
No Britany,
There’s worse people.
These people came to Bethany, Lacie, Haley and Vadie’s funeral today and picketed.
http://www.godhatesfags.com/schedule.html
“St. Luke Evangelical Lutheran Church 7001 Harford Road This is for the memorial service for the Griffin-Burkman family. This family is heavily laden in adultery and idolatry, and God has executed Judgment upon them, because they have forsaken God with their filthy manner of life and hewed themselves out idols, like “Santa Claus” (Jeremiah 2:13). The Lord Jesus Christ spoke to this issue of adultery (i.e. Divorce and Remarriage, which both of these parents were involved in): Luke 16:18- Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. The drunk driver, Michael Gagnon, was sent directly by the Hand of God to execute that Judgment on so many levels: In punishment of Baltimore and Maryland, who put members of Westboro Baptist Church on trial (NO RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, NO FIRST AMENDMENT), in punishment of the adulterer and adulteress, and in punishment of the multitude of other crimes you have committed against the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ. To finish the quote of Michael Gagnon, “Sorry Bro…(I’ve got a date with a minivan.)”"
ah yes, the Phelps familly was it not? if there is indeed a heaven and also a hell, these lunatics will most certainly experience the fire and brimstone they wish uppon others.
Ok, seriously. I am not religious in the least bit, but you don’t have to judge the people who are. I am a very open minded person, I’ve had gay friends, I’ve had ‘bible thumping’ friends. Mike wasn’t either. He was a good man, and as I believe, he still is. Had it been 1 person in the vehicle, people wouldn’t be making such a big fuss over it. But it was a family, with 6 kids, a wonderful family at that… and they seem to be very remourseful, why can’t the other people who aren’t involved? Their family is saying, “Pray for Mike and his family.” They know it was an accident, a horrible accident. But what can they do? What has happened is done. The people in the accident are in a better place, as some would say. But they were christians, so they knew they were going to a better place. Let the family of the people who were killed dothe judging, because what you people say, doesn’t matter.
PLEASE. So now it’s ok that this POS effin killed 5 people, because they were xians, and therefore they are now in heaven?
Cut your effin tongue out. That is the lamest support for a murderer I’ve ever heard. Maybe we should just go out right now and OFF all the ‘good’ people, in their best interests, and send them off to heaven early?
Jeezalouisa, I am effin full up with people who support absolute losers who effin kill people. THIS is why people keep doing it. Because friends and family say they are good people and don’t deserve how disgusted with them.
When I am angry with my boys behaviour, I don’t forgive/justify the things they did. I also don’t beat the shit out of them. I tell them plainly and clearly how disappointed I am in them, and how what they did was NOT acceptable. And won’t happen again. Being afraid of me not approving of them is more effective than whacking their ass. It would be nice if we saw this family acting the same, but they aren’t.
How in the world is crime supposed to go down when evey POS’s family/friend support/don’t think they should be punished for it?
I am glad so many people think this POS who mowed down children is so wonderful and great. He can be wonderful and great in a prison for a long time, luckily. Too bad the DP won’t be thrown at him.
You want to get all bible-y on my ass?
How about ‘Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord’.
Maybe you think that means after the POS is dead, but it doesn’t. The Lord may think this POS needs whacking now. The bible also makes it clear that sins get passed down, so I feel sorry for any children this POS has. I’m guessing that knowing your daddy got drunk off his ass, diddled with the bar drugs, killed 5 people because he was too selfish and evil… would be just like having the sins of your parents visited on them. I feel sorry for this POS’s wife and children.
‘Daddy Day’ at school… ‘where’s YOUR daddy?’.
‘In jail, he killed 5 people while drunk driving’.
Oh, cool. Would you like to join our group?’
Not likely.
_______________
Some gal- maybe you could get off your high horse now? I’m surprised he hasn’t kicked you off already.
“meant to clarify the term for glorybug, as she did not know the meaning.”
What a martyr you are, going around trying to educamate everyone. Did it ever occur to you that other people may know exactly the same things you know, and more… but that they just don’t effin agree with you?
I’d love to educamate you about how sometimes people think they are just know-it-alls, but how really, other people just think they are being self-absorbed and condescending.
When I first started reading here, I thought that it was only family/friends or POSs who had circumstantial evidence against them regarding their abuse/molestation/murder, who jumped to the defense. As in, yes they got killed, but this great, wonderful xian did not do it… they got framed!
Then, in this case, my eyes were opened. It doesn’t even matter if it’s a blatant fact that the person did it… yet they all use the same terminology to defend their POSs. Innocent. Great guy. Xian. The jury got it all wrong… sob. The truth that didn’t get outed during the trial will come out later… ooh, scary.
I’m still not sold on the Taco Bell story. He could have gone back the few blocks to the bar. But he didn’t. It’s not unusual for innocent, great guy, xian types to be cheating on their spouses. Is it possible this POS was driving away from the bar area to hook up with his lover?
What reason would he have to get on the highway instead of going back the 3 blocks to the bar/hotel? Being drunk doesn’t seem to cover that.
3 rooms/40 people? Sounds like this ‘xian’ family really liked to party. Dumbing it down, it hardly seems likely that even 30 people could have shared 3 rooms at 10 per room. I’ve been in hotel rooms with my ex and our two boys, and it was cramped. But then, we weren’t getting shitfaced at the nearby bar, either. Maybe being a drunk ass makes it more tolerable to crash in a motel room with 9 other people?
This whole thing makes me sick, but not as sick as having to read the co-dependant rationalizations offered by the POS’s family/friends.
Wow, all that support? That’ll teach him to not drink/drive/kill 5 people again!!!
c
You’re kidding me right? Phelps showed up? That guy is the most insane person out there. Really the shit that he does it fucking unbelieveable. It makes my stomach turn to think of the stuff he tries to pull off.
I don’t get it if was only 600 something yards (that’s what like 2 football fields) and visible in eyesight that he didn’t just walk and why would he have to get on the freeway to begin with?!?
Phelps is planning to go back on 01/13/08. Man if I had the money I sure as hell would fly out there to say something to that bastard.
Kick some ass for me if anyone is going.
Glory: “How in the world is crime supposed to go down when evey POS’s family/friend support/don’t think they should be punished for it?”
Glory, I’ve read most all the replies posted, and I don’t see ANYONE condoning what this guy did, the supporters just don’t think that YOU the people who don’t know him have basis to condemn him to an eternity of brimstone and hellfire. Leave that to the victim’s family, the judge/jury, and time.
Something else I’ve noticed is that you are pretty active on pysih. But what sets you apart from the other “top commentators” is that YOU always have to have the last word. Maybe you’re afraid to do this irl, and it makes you feel like a big important person to shut down the OPINIONS of faceless people on the internet?
Have great day, and God bless.
Ive know Mike and his brother for over five years and consider myself as a famliy friend, and they are some of the most caring people I have had the pleasure of knowing…and who gives all of u the right to be his judge and jury….No one, Brittany said “she would kill Mike if givin the chance” well then Mrs. Brittany u would be no better. In fact I believe people should show compassion for both sides and realize that no one is saying that what he did was right, but the fact of it all is that he made a Very Big Mistake, and despite what classes assholes (Brittany) say in here…. he will pay everyday for the rest of his life, when he has to look at himself in the mirror, and be reminded of the damage he caused….
figure of speech. I can’t even hold a gun let alone actually kill someone.
Why don’t you look at the pictures and then tell me a part of you doesn’t feel the same way.
I’m not going to show compassion for a complete stranger who drove drunk and whiped out an entire family almost when I didn’t show compassion for my own father who only totaled his car while driving drunk. It’s a choice he made that he will have complete strangers grinding their teeth over his existence because of the things he robbed this family over.
Three members of the Phelps family were indeed there in Baltimore for their political platform
To Nemo and Fitch, you aren’t helping. Bethany didn’t just have a family, she had a large group of friends and they want justice too.
If Michael (I don’t know him as Mike) had just killed Vadie or Bethany or Jordan or Haley or Lacie, it would be just as deserving of the pain and hate he’s getting now. The reason people keep on driving drunk is because they don’t think it matters. They don’t think it will be them. They don’t have a big enough understanding of what sort of suffering it inflicts.
I actually believe Michael may be starting to see a little of that. I think you two haven’t got a clue.
Like I said though Jason, they are planning and have scheduled to be there on Sunday as well.
I DIDN’T EFFIN SAY HE SHOULDN’T PUNISHED! Did you notice the website? PEOPLE YOU’LL SEE IN HELL. Mike does NOT deserve Hell… He does need to be punished, but not with life, or hell.
“Jeezalouisa, I am effin full up with people who support absolute losers who effin kill people.”
You don’t know Mike, so who are you to judge? He had his life in order, was going to school, and had a successful business. HE WAS NOT A LOSER! Good GOD! Like I said, leave it to the people involved to do the judging.
“I DIDN’T EFFIN SAY HE SHOULDN’T PUNISHED! Did you notice the website? PEOPLE YOU’LL SEE IN HELL. Mike does NOT deserve Hell… He does need to be punished, but not with life, or hell.”
Did you know him when he got the illegal possession as a minor charge? How old was he then?
Do you know if his intention was to go all the way back to Adrian that night?
Maybe in jail he can find some sort of personal salvation, but it does not equal the people he killed and protecting him from vilification in mainstream media, defends the crime he committed.
I want all of the morons who drink and then drive right now, to hear about how horrible Michael Gagnon is and equate it to the evil it actually is. To know that drinking and driving is not some sort of test of skill or manhood but is murder. It makes even “nice” people into the worst kind of people. It’s not a mistake, it’s a choice and a lifestyle.
Not when you cant remember a thing
The only one who chose to put those chemicals in Michael’s body was Michael.
Imagine this…. If I got roaring drunk, and ran over 5 of your relatives, I’d deserve the death penalty. You’d want it and I’d want it.
mean or nice it doesn’t matter. all what lead up to his life, doing all the great things and leaving his life in order doesn’t matter. He still made this choice so all that hard work and everything he worked hard for goes down the drain.
What happened in the past isn’t going to make a difference in the eyes of the jurors or friends and family because of what happened that night. The choices he made. Plain and simple.
I feel sorry for you, his friends, who don’t understand that.
“…because what you people say, doesn’t matter.”
I see that you fail to understand the principles of our criminal justice system.
The court case will not be “the family of Bethany , Jordan, Vadie, Haley, Lacie and Danny vs. Michael Gagnon” but “The People vs. Michael Gagnon.”
When you violate fundamental rules of society, it doesn’t matter who the immediate victims are, society as a whole in the form of “The People” are the ones who will determine justice. Hence the reason you have a right to a trial by a jury of your peers.
However I’m sure we’d all be happy to load the jury up with the family of the deceased if that’s your preference.
Ok, the POS killed kids. In prison the most hated inmates are the ones that kill kids. This drunk loser is going to sure get what is coming to him in prison. I wouldn’t be surprised if they “take care of him”….like they did with Dahmer.
For the last two hours I have been reading all the previous comments. I think this is a very sad situation. I don’t personally know the victims or the drunk driver but I do have compassion for BOTH sides and I don’t care what any of you say, it is sad for BOTH families. As an objective third party, I am praying for BOTH families and pray that God will somehow find a way for everyone involved to achieve peace.
Another thing. You can bet that there are going to be alot of lawsuits from this. POS didn’t even have insurance, did he? Can they go after the family then?
Everyone pays for this crime with increased insurance rates. My insurance keeps going up and I have had a clean driving record for over 30 years. We have to pay for assholes like this and all of the other irresponsible pricks on the road.
I am on a roll. Me thinks that legally it is EXTREMELY dumb of the family to be posting all of these messages on the internet. This is going to be used against their “wonderboy” in court.
Personally, I think he should get the death penalty and be used as an example to other drunks out there to knock off this DUI murder BS that is allowed. The Mideast sure has that over the US. They execute people over there for these types of crimes. The only reason why the USA is so easygoing with the palty few year sentences is because the politicians are funded by the big booze companies to get in office. Anhauser Bush etc donates MILLIONS to the political campaigns of our presidents and other politicians. It is all incredibly corrupt of how the alcohol industry keeps getting away with murder.
drunksarelosers aka GloryBug
yeah…no
when GloryBug writes she makes sense and is intelligent. Don’t forget…she uses proper grammer
Um…yeah
She’s bout the only person I’ve seen who repeatedly uses POS.
The tone and argument style are TOTALLY the same. The grammar is mighty fine.
Whatever. Lame.
GloryBug, drunksarelosers, whoever you are, or whichever personality you choose to use the next time. Maybe someone should “take care” of you like they did Dahmer. Because obviously you have nothing better to do than judge people, when you are no better.
The fact that Mike killed 5 people is still standing. I’m not defending him there. I am on the defense for him as a person. Sure he had a MIP when he was in high school, but seriously, coming from the area where we did, probably about 70% of our graduating class had MIP’s. We live in a po-dunk little town, where there’s nothing to do. If you want to do something you have to drive 30 miles to get there. Thus, why Mike was in Toledo at the time the accident happened. Nobody but Mike knows what he was doing or thinking (shit, he may not even know that, considering how drunk he was) when he got behind the wheel of the truck. My take on the situation, he was hungry, the bar shut down the grill for the night, he drove to Taco Bell. After leaving Taco Bell, he got on I-280, on the same exit they got off of earlier that day, obviously not thinking or watching the signs, again because he was so drunk he couldn’t comprehend anything, and headed somewhere else for the night. It could have very well been home, but like I said, nobody knows but Mike.
Don’t get me wrong. I too feel extremely bad for what has happened to the Griffin/Burkman family. But I’m not going to go around saying that Mike is a horrible person, and he should rot in prison, be killed, or burn in hell because of the situation. I know Mike… enough to know that he’s already a changed man because of what has happened. Do I think he deserves to be punished… Hell yes, and he will. Had it of been my husband and 2 kids in the accident, I would hate Mike for what happened, but in no way would I wish the things upon him that you people are.
Everything that a person does good or bad comes back to that person. POS will eventually get all of this back to him in this lifetime and the next. It may take lifetimes to clear this thing up in his karma. No one gets off free and this forgiveness and everything ends up roses stuff isn’t reality. All the pain that he caused will now be his to feel and bear for a loooooooooooooooooong time.
How small minded are you people in this family? You are on the internet guessing who is sending messages. The world is a big place and you contemplate that the same person is sending the same messages about the POS. It is true that drinking greatly narrows a person’s outlook on life. You idiots think that only a few people know about this montrous act ?
ok first thing…it was his brothers bar. It was New Years. Why would they shut it down?
Nemo- There’s two post since your post that used POS. AND read some more of the stories on here. Other people use it just as much. Oh and she always signs her comments with ‘c’
Again this isn’t about who Mike was before 12/30. It’s about the choices he made and actions he took that night that will forever seal his fate in life and the “after life” if there is one.
It doesn’t matter how much of a nice person he was. It’s the sad hard truth but nonetheless the truth
it was his brothers bar
Once again, you’re wrong. It was his cousin’s bar, and who wants to be cooking at 11:00? Who cares about that detail anyways, he wanted 4th meal.
ok brother cousin. 6 of one 1/2 a dozen of the other.
and actually I did say brother’s bar.
Brittany says…
ok brother cousin. 6 of one 1/2 a dozen of the other.
So if your cousin does something wrong and we blame it on your brother it’s ok? But if the cousin is on your husbands side and we blame it on your husband that would be ok also right? Remember how you figure things….ok brother cousin. 6 of one 1/2 a dozen of the other.
Mizz Right – My point I was trying to make was it was a family members bar and grill.
Man what you said makes a lot of confusing sense.
Ashley said
“But I’m not going to go around saying that Mike is a horrible person, and he should rot in prison, be killed, or burn in hell because of the situation.”
And that’s why every time it happens again, you should be held responsible. You are enabling him and others. You are protecting the crime with the criminal. It won’t stop if we allow the “Oh he was drunk defense.” the only way it will stop is if every time someone drinks and then drives they know that if they get caught it means they will lose their life.
Mike deserves lethal injection if for no other reason than to make the next person who is just as careless and stupid as he is from doing it again.
He is and was stupid and careless and nothing will make him better. He is diminished in this world to less than ashes. If you’d like to help him out and prepare for the next world, so be it, but he is wasting air that should belong to Bethany and her children and his execution would have been a better use of his life than anything so far demonstrated.
Why didn’t you stop him when he got the first DUI and had it reduced to Illegal Possession by a Minor when he got that speeding ticket? Why didn’t you stop him when he started in the pattern of driving drunk? Ask yourself that for the rest of your life instead of asking other people to forgive him. They don’t need to listen to you because they don’t forgive you either.
Hey Jason, thanks for speaking sense. I can’t believe all of this “oh well he was drunk and goddangit he made a mistake” attitude.
Yes, good can come of this. If they would execute him and THEN maybe drunks would start getting the message….. OR another option is that ALL vehicles need to have the ignition lock system built in. Every damn car that is made and those that don’t have them, would need to get them installed. Kind of like the catalytic converter program. Maybe the supporters of Gagnon, could get some good out of this and try to get this type of program /law passed. Use their time and resources for the good of society and not to protect Mike. We need the iginition lock system!!
IT JUST IS NOT RIGHT THAT DRUNKS CAN RUIN INNOCENT PEOPLES LIVES!!!!!. That is an extremely serious matter and it is very disturbing how some people take it so lightly. If they had a better quality life that didn’t revolve around alcohol, maybe they would realize why this DUI murder is such a horrible crime and shouldn’t have to be tolerated by innocent people who just want to live happy lives.
Drunksarelosers may share some of my viewpoints, but I can assure you were are not the same person. I know some people will be disappointed because they don’t want to think there are more people against drunk drivers, but oh well.
And, I disagree that our writing styles are the same. My writing style is much more crass, and pisses more people off because of my opinionated rantings. Dislike me if you must, but don’t let it spill over onto ‘drunksarelosers’.
“The court case will not be “the family of Bethany , Jordan, Vadie, Haley, Lacie and Danny vs. Michael Gagnon†but “The People vs. Michael Gagnon.â€
This, once again is a brilliant distillation of what I, and many others have been trying to express.
Yes, we have a right to be involved with crimes that are being prosecuted on our behalf.
And, unless I’m mistaken Brittany, you are out? Is it presumptious on my part to make the comment that I believe that the majority of people freakishly supporting abusers and murderers, who rant that none of us have the right to judge the POSs, or vote for them to go to hell….. would have no problem ‘voting for hell’ anyone who was gay or lesbian or the myriad of other sexualities that genetically fall between the norm of heterosexuality? Just wondering.
c
“We’ll miss you.”
Admin, I love you!
I don’t really care if it was his cousin’s place. I don’t care that he was jonesing for a bean burrito. I don’t care that no one saw him leave (which is crap because someone had to give him the keys and watch him stumble toward the door). I don’t care that the family freaked when they realized he was gone. I care that he plowed into a van carrying a family home from the holidays and killed several innocent children and managed to walk away with enough presence of mind to resist the LE officers that responded to the carnage. I agree that it’s sad that he will have to live with this the rest of his life, but that’s the price you pay. Don’t ask me or anyone else to be sympathetic to his cause because he feels bad now. Maybe he should have started feeling bad when he was driving down the highway in the wrong direction for 4 miles. Perhaps that should have been the first clue that maybe he wasn’t OK to drive and he should pull over, eat his food and sleep it off. He deserves whatever is coming to him and as far as the state of his soul, that’s between him and whatever he considers holy.
Sarah- bless your heart.
You seem to be one of the few people who can look at this case for only what it is.
Anyone who wants to continue to say that this is all just a very unfortunate, sad accident should think twice about the precedent you are setting.
Same as the accident where the mom’s boyfriend’s penis somehow ‘accidentally’ got stuck in his girlfriend’s toddler’s vagina.
Accidents happen, YKWIM? We should not prosecute this POS for purposefully driving drunk and killing 5 people, and we should not prosecute boyfriends whose penises accidentally get stuck in their girlfriend’s children’s vaginas, right?
For some reason I am not buying the excuse that this POS stole keys to drive a few blocks to get a yummy chalupa…. There has to be a reason he was heading the other way (against traffic, yes), and I will bet it’s because he was not heading back to the bar his cousin owned, that pumped him full of alcohol (and possibly HGH), but was instead headng towards someone else’s house. Lots of times drunk assholes show up at their lover’s house (even though they are married), so until I hear otherwise I am not going to rule that out.
According to many accounts, this drunk POS could have easily have walked to Taco Bell. But he chose to drive? As I have said before, I’d like to know what the POS ordered at Taco Bell. Food for one? Food for himself and another person that he got in his car to visit even though he was drunk off his ass?
Just wondering.
c
Glory….did I ever tell you how much I love you?
Yes I am out. I’ve been out since 7th grade and I’m turning 21 on Monday.
and YES I’m sure if the admin posted a poll on whether or not, I, Brittany, should/would end up in hell because I’m gay when then, I’m sure there would be a lot of votes saying so.
You know what…Admin, if you want you can. What the hell. It would get a lot of people talking and I wouldn’t get offended either way.
shit if I’m gonnan go to hell for being gay I better not list the other things I’ve done. Hell might not be big enough for my past.
A sad note to this case, members of the Phelps clan, the group who protests at military funerals aas well as Matthew Shepard’s protested at the funeral for the family, claiming their deaths were retribution by God for them losing a lawsuit in court recently. Won’t these people ever go away?
no they can’t. I don’t understand what they think “good” people are.
If ever there were a group of people you’ll definitely be seeing in hell, the Phelps clan wins the prize. You can visit their website at godhatesfags.com. Seriously. It’s plastered on the outside of their church building. Classy. Why doesn’t a drunk driver get those jackasses?
It is pretty obvisous that Fred Phelps and is whacked out toadies are going straight to Hell. They thinnk everyone else is going to Hell, except for them.
I have followed this case since it first became news and feel awful for all of the families involved and am praying for them. I do have some thoughts.
On another forum I found a link to the brother’s myspace pages and to the bar’s myspace page. Reading these would lead one to believe alcohol is the single most important thing in the lives of all of these people. The brother’s page which has since been modified showed him holding a bottle of beer. The page linked to the bar’s web page. The bar’s web page which has since been modified showed the profile of the owner of the page describing his or her mood as “drunk.” The page was filled with a bunch of folks for whom alcohol must be more important than life itself.
The myspace page of Mrs. Griffin appeared to be devoted to her family. Stark contrast.
A little research shows that a BAC of .254 would render most people into a state where they’d be lucky if they weren’t in a coma. One might surmise that a person who could function to some degree with a BAC of .254 probably has developed quite a tolerance for alcohol which would probably require regular and devoted drinking. I found this online:
BAC = .25-.30 = Drinkers display general inertia, near total loss of motor functions, little response to stimuli, inability to stand or walk, vomiting, and incontinence. Drinkers may lose consciousness or fall into a stupor.
A visit to the Toledo Blade website found a copy of the search warrant for the bar. The police found 2 boxes of HGH, multiple syringes and nearly $16,000 in cash stored with these items. Once might guess that someone at the bar didn’t just store his or her stash there but was selling the stuff out of the bar. If this is all true I hope they close the place down.
I have read one story that indicated that Gagnon had a larceny charge a couple of years ago and that he was ordered into drug and alcohol counseling. If that’s true I guess it didn’t work. Maybe he’s not such a great guy that some are making him out to be after all.
This whole story has caused pain and suffering for many people. Those who have had family and friends killed by a drunk driver have probably had those wounds reopened. The court system will hopefully do its job though it would be best for all if this man just plead guilty and saved everyone a lot of pain as he has already caused more than enough. I pray that the families will heal.
And what kind of family books a family Christmas get together at a bar?
The best thing anyone can do about the Phelps “church” bunch is ignore them. To bad Gagnon didn’t hit their van.
It’s a shame that at that BAC level he couldn’t have just passed out somewhere before he ended up getting behind the wheel and destroying the Griffin families lives, not to mention causing his own family grief.
Glory may be right about him having other things to do (i.e. cheating on his wife) if he was going out without planning on returning to the bar and the nearby hotel where they would have had a nice comfty room for him to pass out in. I don’t know exactly how far away the Taco Bell was from the bar but if it was within stumbling distance couldn’t he have just gotten there on foot or at least have had the designated driver make a Taco Bell run for him?
Every once in a while my school’s newspaper will report in its police beat about cases of theft, harassment, general drunkeness, trespassing and other types of crimes. Every once in a while I’ll read about a case of extreme intoxication (in one instance a BAC of 0.36) and these people need to be taken to the nearest hospital for treatment it’s that bad. I mean sometimes I’ll find these people pathetic because they’ll end so drunk that they’re half naked, covered with vomit and are found in the dorm hallway by the RA with thier head in a pizza box. But I don’t have as much contempt for these people as I do this guy because at least for the most part they don’t hop behind the wheel of thier car at that level of intoxication with no thought but of themselves on thier mind. For somebody that should have lost nearly all thier motor functions at that level, it seems like he had a tolerance for being this drunk and still being able to function. And he probably drove this drunk before. This may have just been the first time he was caught.
I don’t understand how he was able to comprehend the Taco Bell menu but not any of the freeway signs on the off ramp, such as do not enter signs.
It was also really nice to see his only public comments, relayed by his mother, concerned what people were thinking about HIM! “Mom, does everyone think I’m a monster?”
Nothing about the family. Just concerned about himself.
You people suck… seriously. How would you feel if it was your brother? Your son? You father? Or your husband. No, fuck no I’m not saying it’s right… He should be punished, and he will be. But the things you people are saying about him.. It’s just plain cruel. Sure shit he made a bad choice, a choice he will have to live with for the rest of his life.
I’m not condoning drinking and driving, I am defending mike as a person, not the choices he makes.
The press doesn’t let you hear Mikes remorse, they are only going to show you what he’s done wrong. The larceny charge… wasn’t him. The person he was with was doing it, and they named him as the passenger. Get your facts right.
FUCK Mike’s so-called “remorse.”
Just my two cents:
When I was in high school – yes, I can remember that far – my friend, a male, went drink driving and ran over and killed my other best friend. I was no where near at the time. Up til then I thought he was a reasonable, kind friendly young man. Then he killed someone. Feel free to remember them as they were before they committed murder, but I think it is better this way, to know that they chose to do something so mind-numbingly stupid and harmful. Do you WANT to be friends with that sort of people? He killed my childhood friend. A brilliant student, an intelligent woman, a doting daughter. Taken away in the blink of an eye because getting inebriated is so f***ing important. I’ll tell you something else, too. Two years ago, another of my friends decided that he was going to shoot up his college, kill his classmates. His father tried to stop him, and was murdered. Then my friend shot himself. But it was okay, he was really a nice guy, he was just on Crack? I don’t think like that. BTW, I come from NZ, and we had the Aramoana massacre. A man poured petrol on two little girls and set fire to them, and murdered many others, because he was delusional. So don’t think I’m out of touch with you people from big exciting countries, okay :)
Last thing, I don’t agree with people writing God bless at the end of their posts. Especially on here. With all the men and women on this site, do you really think God blesses anyone at all?
Actually my dad was in a, what could have been extremely, similar DUI and I don’t forgive him still for it and he didn’t even injure anyone.
it’s all manslaughter. they both, in one way or another, slaughtered their victims.
Ashley said:
“I’m not condoning drinking and driving, I am defending mike as a person, not the choices he makes.
The press doesn’t let you hear Mikes remorse, they are only going to show you what he’s done wrong. The larceny charge… wasn’t him. The person he was with was doing it, and they named him as the passenger. Get your facts right.”
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/condone
1. to disregard or overlook (something illegal, objectionable, or the like).
2. to give tacit approval to: By his silence, he seemed to condone their behavior.
3. to pardon or forgive (an offense); excuse.
4. to cause the condonation of.
‘the act of condoning; the overlooking or implied forgiving of an offense.’
5. Law. to forgive or act so as to imply forgiveness of (a violation of the marriage vow).
You’re not condoning his actions by focusing on his personal traits that you claim are “good”?
Do you know what the words you’re using mean?
Remember when you couldn’t figure out why there was a reason to carefully study in class, and thought English was boring? Here’s the reason you should have paid attention. You are condoning Michael Gagnon’s actions. You’re ignoring the crime to protect the criminal from public humiliation and scorn for the evil he has done and is guilty of. You’re protecting and even forgiving his actions. You’ve tried to limit the people you think can judge him in the court of public opinion. You’ve tried to silence a majority of people who know that Michael is a monster because he did monstrous things.
That makes you an apologist for drunk driving, a spokes person for forgiving the crime. That makes you an enemy of the over 30,000 people killed last year by people just like Michael Gagnon.
Ah shut up… I’m sticking to what I know… I know Michael, and thats all I need to know. He doesn’t deserve the things you people are saying about him, and I will say that over and over.
And honestly what you say doesn’t matter!
“Ah shut up… I’m sticking to what I know…”
very little, about life and the English language.
“I know Michael, and thats all I need to know.”
you know criminals and all you want to know are criminals. You’ve made that abundantly clear.
“He doesn’t deserve the things you people are saying about him, and I will say that over and over.”
He killed 5 people who were worth more than him. He deserves death.
“And honestly what you say doesn’t matter!”
Then why do you defend him here and everywhere?
I urge you to stop drinking and driving. I hope if you do continue to do it yourself that you are the only one you kill. I hope you and your family stop defending Michael along with the crime. You could have stopped him when he got by with a decreased charge the first time, but instead you practically told him that it was alright to do it again.
And now you’re doing it again.
Golly Ashley.
I have a member of my own family who has drug and alcohol problems. He’s now a four time convicted felon. The system has essentially given him a pass each time. When he’s not drunk or on drugs he’s a great guy but look out when he is. Most people who meet him think he’s charming. We know better and what he’s capable of because we chose to remove the blinders from our eyes. We’ve been plenty frustrated with the court system because they’ve been so lenient. We even hired an attorney for him to get him put into a program to get clean. Sadly, we’ve done all we can do within the law and it hasn’t been enough. Did anyone in the family ever intervene with Michael? You don’t get that drunk and still function just out of the blue. If my family member had done this I think I’d be joining the “hang him” chorus as much as anyone else who’s written out of anger on this board and elsewhere.
Mr. Gagnon didn’t make a “mistake.” He killed 5 people and injured three others. Anyone who could function at any level with a BAC of .254, and let’s remember that was drawn after a court order so the level was probably much higher when he killed, has got to have some issues with sobriety. He’s probably made a ton of mistakes and it’s a shame that the first time he really got caught was because he killed 5 people.
As far as the larceny charge, perhaps the newspaper where I read it got the facts wrong. I reported what they reported. With most laws if you are there you are charged right along with the perpetrator. How the hell did he get off? Being a passenger is no excuse. What kind of people did Michael hang out with for gosh sakes?
As far as his remorse, well that’s really nice he’s remorseful. Yippe. My family member found remorse too, when he was in jail, but he got over it. It doesn’t change anything and no penalty will equal the cost the Griffin and Burkman families have paid and will pay physically, mentally, emotionally and financially.
Maybe our anger is directed a Michael because we are all so sick of hearing of yet another family killed by a drunk driver, so sick of this 20 something year old culture that so deeply values alcohol and a good time over everything else, so sick of Myspace pages where getting drunk or high is the primary purpose in life, so sick of those who will excuse and dismiss the actions of those who lead this lifestyle of death as being good people. If we suck because of that so be it. Maybe we’d like to live without the fear of the next Michael Gagnon lurking around the next bend in the road.
Let’s stop calling him Michael. It sounds too proper and decent. He is Gagnon or Mike or even POS if you are in a bad mood.
I mean what is this $300 a week garbage that he claims to have earned as a construction worker? Illegal Mexicans flipping burgers make more than that. Nobody goes to trade school and then ends up making $300 a week at a building job. He even lies to a judge so that the taxpayer can foot the bill for his defense. When does it end with creeps like this?
“very little, about life and the English language” – Are you kidding? You are a joke…
“I urge you to stop drinking and driving.I hope if you do continue to do it yourself that you are the only one you kill.” – Thanks for that, but I don’t drink and drive, and I never have drank and drove… can you point me to where I said I had?
“I hope you and your family stop defending Michael along with the crime. You could have stopped him when he got by with a decreased charge the first time, but instead you practically told him that it was alright to do it again.” – I am not one to tell anyone what to do.
“I mean what is this $300 a week garbage that he claims to have earned as a construction worker? Illegal Mexicans flipping burgers make more than that. Nobody goes to trade school and then ends up making $300 a week at a building job. He even lies to a judge so that the taxpayer can foot the bill for his defense. When does it end with creeps like this?”
Are you kidding me? Must be you don’t know what its like to be self-employed and have people work for you. I happen to come from a family that is self-employed and let me tell you there are some weeks that you dont make a whole lot you idiot it all depends on the job. if you read that article in the blade where it talks about mike paying his own way through school plus working…it says that he trys to help people out as much as he can by giving them cheaper prices so they can afford it and he will even work for free just to help someone out. So dont go judging his pay check and no he is not lying to the judge about his pay. You people are stupid….
“very little, about life and the English language†– Are you kidding? You are a joke…
Using what you say against you…. you know, logical debate?
“I urge you to stop drinking and driving.I hope if you do continue to do it yourself that you are the only one you kill.†– Thanks for that, but I don’t drink and drive, and I never have drank and drove…
I don’t have your public criminal record in front of me. Just Michael’s.
can you point me to where I said I had?
You claimed 70% of your graduating class had possession as a minor charge. Since Michael’s was received as a reduction in sentence from a DUI offense, and you “assumed” that, that was okay, I reasonably assumed that you were 70% likely to engage in the same criminal activities as Michael did.
“I hope you and your family stop defending Michael along with the crime. You could have stopped him when he got by with a decreased charge the first time, but instead you practically told him that it was alright to do it again.†– I am not one to tell anyone what to do.
You’ve been telling me and others to stop judging Michael. You’re a hypocrite. You can’t tell someone to do something when it might save a life and you tell people to stop burning Michael in effigy when it might raise awareness enough to maybe save a life. You’re a coward and a weakling who’s standing on the wrong side.
You deserve nothing but contempt.
Michael never had a dui ,growing up
Was he behind the wheel when he got the minor in possession?
To Brittany and others….
I didnt want to bring this up but….besides everytihng that mike did there are others you can look at that didnt do anything to help the situation. 1st the Taco bell guy should have told mike to pull up and wait for his food, to keep him there until the cops came….2nd the father shouldn’t have put eight people in a 7 person van, and maybe it would have been better if he would have properly straped the baby car seat in the middle of the seat row, not on the end of a seat row, maybe the 8 week old baby would have servived both of these things are listed by the department of transpertation as things that are the drivers responablity and therefor would have been listed as the drive’s falt a.k.a the father himself. Like i said before I really didnt want to be that guy to bring this up….but as i see you are relentless in your persacution someone that you dont even know or know the hole story of the stiuation. Myself being someone who studies law would be able to tell you the grim truth of the situation. You may not agree or call me heartless but no matter what you say from here on I have given you facts that point to others to blame as well as Mike, you may not agree with me but you cant disagree with FACTS….
I actually have the real facts… something you seem to be without.
“To Brittany and others….
I didnt want to bring this up but….besides everytihng that mike did there are others you can look at that didnt do anything to help the situation. 1st the Taco bell guy should have told mike to pull up and wait for his food, to keep him there until the cops came….”
They did hold him there. At one point Michael got out of the vehicle and then got back into his car and left. They kept him there for several minutes.
“2nd the father shouldn’t have put eight people in a 7 person van,”
Eight person van.
Dan was in the front seat, Bethany was in the passenger seat. There are two bench seats which each sit three. Everyone was wearing a seatbelt. The baby seat was buckled in but when Michael hit them at 60 miles per hour while they were traveling 60+, that’s a 120 miles per hour. Bethany was thrown from the car still buckled into her car seat. It smashed out all of her teeth when she collided with the cement 25 feet from the car.
“and maybe it would have been better if he would have properly straped the baby car seat in the middle of the seat row, not on the end of a seat row, maybe the 8 week old baby would have servived”
You need to get a copy of the police report and then read it before you lie about these “details” you think are facts. Jordan was torn from her seat and thrown under the van. Haley had a hole in her head and died instantly. Beau was still buckled into his seat, and the material in the car formed a shell around him that protected him from most of the injury.
Look at the picture of the van. It was opened up all along the right hand side and the middle of the car is staved in. You need to read the police report, you really do.
“both of these things are listed by the department of transpertation as things that are the drivers responablity and therefor would have been listed as the drive’s falt a.k.a the father himself.”
No, when someone is driving the wrong way on the freeway, is 3 times the legal limit and rams directly into and through your vehicle you get a pass on most things.
“Like i said before I really didnt want to be that guy to bring this up….”
Yes you did. You want to protect your friend. you think Drunk Driving is fine. you think Michael doesn’t deserve to die or even spend much time in prison. You think this was a “mistake” or an “accident.” You want to blame Bethany and Dan for this crime and it doesn’t sit right with me.
“but as i see you are relentless in your persacution someone that you dont even know or know the hole story of the stiuation. Myself being someone who studies law would be able to tell you the grim truth of the situation.”
you can’t even spell Persecution or Situation. You haven’t read the police report. you can get one with a freedom of Information Act request or put in a form available on the Toledo Police Department’s website. You are woefully ill equipped to handle what you’ll learn about this.
“You may not agree or call me heartless but no matter what you say from here on I have given you facts that point to others to blame as well as Mike, you may not agree with me but you cant disagree with FACTS….”
You don’t know any facts about this case. Admit it, you made everything up on the spot because you thought you knew. You didn’t look at any of the actual facts in this case. Try again.
Fitch you can’t spell.
You can’t try to throw “facts” at someone if they don’t exist the way you present them.
Google the car accident.
Look at the pictures.
The carseat was thrown across lanes of the freeway.
Even if it wasn’t in the middle, it would’ve needed to be hit extremely hard in order to be thrown that far.
Jason has a good point, just like every time, “No, when someone is driving the wrong way on the freeway, is 3 times the legal limit and rams directly into and through your vehicle you get a pass on most things.”
No if, ands or buts about it.
oh and if it’s law that you study, I sure wouldn’t want you representing me especially because you can’t spell. At least when I don’t think I can spell I make a note of it.
oh and I don’t think there’s a need for you to try again buddy.
Jason… Do you have nothing better to do but pick apart everything that people have to say? They are just trying to tell you people that Michael is not the ‘monster’ you make him out to be. Were you a policeman, fireman, or EMT on the scene that night? Do you know the FACTS of exactly what happened? I don’t think you do. The only people who do, are Michael, and Danny. There were many things that everyone could have done wrong in this situation. But nothing worked, and it ended up in a horrible tragedy. I haven’t heard anywhere that Michael got out of his truck at Taco Bell…? Is that something you “made up on the spot because you thought you knew”, or is that a FACT? Had the kid at Taco Bell told him to pull forward for a minute because they had to fry up some more meat, sure, maybe that would have worked. Maybe the people in the bar shouldn’t have gave him so much to drink. I am sure someone there seen how much he had to drink, and knew it wasn’t safe for him to drive. Someone HAD to have seen him leave. And, it wasn’t a family party. The advertisement for it was plastered all over the bar’s MySpace page.
There are a LOT of different things everyone could have done in the situation, but they didn’t. What has happened is done. Nothing you will change that.
Michael will be punished, his punishment isn’t up to us, and it’s not like what we say matters. It’s up to the judge. Let him do his job.
–Warden
Do you have nothing better to do but pick apart everything that people have to say?
I’m spending my money and vacation time on things like getting police reports. It’s my way of dealing with the grief of losing a close friend. I’m also doing things like trying to collect information on how to help foundations that helpt to stop drunk driving and asking my State reps to sponsor legislation that would make Michael’s actions a capital offense. I’m refuting what these people say because it’s their sort of acceptance that made Michael’s first conviction a lesser offense and thus not as poignant a reminder for Michael not to drink and drive again.
When he did it again he killed my friend and her daughters.
I haven’t heard anywhere that Michael got out of his truck at Taco Bell…? Is that something you “made up on the spot because you thought you knewâ€, or is that a FACT?
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_county/bal-md.fatal05jan05,0,5921577.story
“Michael Gagnon was seen later at a Taco Bell, where employees deemed him so intoxicated that they called police. Before an officer arrived, he got back into his truck and headed the wrong way on Interstate 280 for about four miles, police said, before the collision with Griffin’s minivan.”
FACTs, I have them, you don’t.
The police report is available from the Toledo Police Department as well.
Someone HAD to have seen him leave. And, it wasn’t a family party. The advertisement for it was plastered all over the bar’s MySpace page.
It was a Family Christmas party. The family claimed to have a private section at the bar. You haven’t been paying attention to all of the facts.
NO, there you are wrong Brittany. The carseat was NOT thrown from the car. It was placed there after taking the baby out by one of the EMT’s.
Go here if you don’t believe me…
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=307161215&albumId=103405
Yeah the family may have had a section, but there were plenty more people there besides the family
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=151341175&albumID=0&imageID=14210347
What do you people expect? His cousin was part owner of the bar.
“NO, there you are wrong Brittany. The carseat was NOT thrown from the car. It was placed there after taking the baby out by one of the EMT’s.
Go here if you don’t believe me…”
Actually 3 cars stopped to help while the press set up their cameras. Danny was moving around trying to find his family and talking to his Dad to get him there as fast as possible. The police and EMT’s didn’t show up for several minutes.
I don’t know how the car seat got out of the van, but Vadie was alive after the accident. The same cannot be said for Jordan, Haley and Bethany. They were killed almost, if not instantly.
Maybe you can’t see Bethany’s face? is that it? is it because you’ve never heard her voice that you can be so callous? Do you want to hear her voice? I think I still have it on my voice mail wishing me a Merry Christmas.
I know about the band that played, and I know about the 3 reserved rooms at the hotel. I am paying attention to these details as closely as possible.
First time posting so go easy on me…I am a friend of Jason’s and was fortunate to have met Dan and Bethany once.
Fitch, were you actually trying to place blame on the father? Plus have you driven a van with your baby in the center where, in even a slight accident they could be thrown forward into the windshield, even buckled in? You are instructed to place them to the side behind either the passenger or drivers seat, but that is beside the point. I commend Jason for being able to make the most sense through all of his posts, I know how broken up he has been throughout this whole ordeal and I am amazed at how he has been able to give all of the readers here as much information he could in laymans terms wherever possible so most people could set aside the facts from the fluff. 120mph…that’s the force the vehicles hit each other…
Jason man…it’ll be ok. He’ll get his justice. I feel bad you sound like you’re at a breaking point.
Kenny- you make some good points.
I remember when my boys were little, you had to put their car-carrier in the back seat, facing backwards. I did all of those things, but in the back of my head I don’t think I thought much of those rules. Because it seemed to me to be obvious that if we were hit by a car it would not really matter.
Fender-bender… maybe baby would be protected. Full on crash? No way. That’s if the airbags didn’t snap their necks.
The safest thing to do is to not be on a highway where some freak is driving against the traffic because he was drunk off his ass. That’s a hard thing to anticipate.
I tell my children all the time… (when they complain that I don’t drive as fast/exciting as their dad does)that I don’t question my own driving skills, but that I am very aware of other people’s driving skills. I could be the best driver in the world and still get mowed down by a bad driver.
Get off the road if you think it’s possible that you could wipe out me and more than half of my family. Stay home and be a drunk loser instead of hitting the road and being a loser murderer.
c
Thanks Glory…
No, It’s stay and home and be a happy drunk rather then be a happy drunk that mows down a family and then be a drunk loser…there is a difference, you can drink and get totally S*itfaced drunk and stay wherever you are and have a good time, the drink wasn’t the killer, the drinker that got behind the wheel was.
My family and I were hit by a drunk driver on our way to visit family for Thanksgiving in Tenn., we were lucky, minor injuries except my father, he kept us on the road away from a 12 foot ditch yet ripped all the muscle from his shoulder in doing so. Almost ruined his life, he was a truck driver and could no longer drive a truck because he couldn’t pull himself into the cab. He bounced back, but I don’t know many people that have not at one time or another, been affected by a drunk driver. I fully support any organization or person that tries to strengthen the laws of any state against first time offenders. That’s what Jason I believe is mainly trying to say he has been doing. Gathering facts and reports to aid in getting this done.
I failed to mention, it was an 18 year old kid who was a known high school sports star and the sherriff that was first on teh scene flubbed up everything by waiting til they got to the station 2 hours later before administering a breath test. He only blew slightly over the legal limit 2 HOURS LATER. The airbag didn’t even knock the kids hat off, he hit us because he was reaching into the passenger floorboard of the car (his moms) for another beer. He said he was reaching for his CD case. My brother ran out to see if the guy was OK after making sure we were OK and almost punched the guy until we heard him studdering “what happened” and smelled the beer in the car. If he had been driving his own car, a Jeep Wrangler, he would likly have died. We were lucky, the kid got a fine and his moms insurance took care of the rest. I have no doubt he will hit someone else someday, unless first offenders are treated more harshly.
man I am planning on partying pretty hard on Thursday night for my birthday celebration and I have made arrangements to get toasted beyond and then walk to my friends house two blocks away and not be like Mikey and drive anywheredon’t get me wrong, it’s going to suck to have to walk to my car the next morning but nonetheless I won’t be putting anyone in harms way.
I hope you dont have a blackout,from drinking to much.
What all did he have that night? Did he have any of the Clenbuterol? Were there any other drugs?
GHB? Marijuana? Cocaine?
Was it just alcohol that he had or was there anything else?
Since I am originally from the same town as Mike I have been trying to follow this as much as possible. I am utterly amazed that the people that are sticking up for him ( the two girls from hudson.) Yes I liked Mike in high school, but the fact is he made made a string of bad decisions leading up to the accident and hell yes everyone is going to be digusted. Ashley imagine if that was you new baby boy that had died? you say that you have put yourself in the families shoes but I doubt you have let go of t fact that you have a friendship with Mike, as it is probably clouding your mind. Sometimes this world gets so messed up sometimes they only thing people have is the right to complain and plot what should happen. You going to every website forum and posting your emotional opinions is making everyone who knows mike seem heartless. If you care so much just pray to God that everyone will make it through this.
He plead not guilty today. This guy isn’t done causing pain and suffering.
toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080117/DEVELOPINGNEWS/237016213
Looks like his chin is healing nicely.
Jason,
I’m really sorry for your loss. It is incredible to me that anyone who has been following this case could even attempt to defend this person. He can’t even bring himself to take responsibility for his actions. He can’t stand up in court, be a man, and take responsibility for descimating this family. That makes me sick. As far as I’m concerned, his not guilty plea automatically invalidates his apologists’ claims that he is soooo remorseful and such a great guy. He is selfish, plain and simple. He’s victimizing this family all over again by putting them through a trial in which he will inevitibly be found guilty. If he were a family member of mine his actions wouldn’t stop me from loving him, but I would also understand that he would deserve to be derided for his choices and actions. I’m going out on a limb here and saying that this couldn’t have been the first time he had done this, so it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. There is no defense for what he did.
Okay, how many of YOU out there in the world are PERFECT? How many of YOU have NEVER gotten behind the wheel of a car and drove drunk? How many of YOU NEVER EVER do anything wrong or make stupid mistakes? Well, unless you are a PERFECT HUMAN BEING, ( and I highly doubt that you are, the only PERFECT ONE was JESUS CHRIST!!) so,… unless you are a perfect being, SHUT-UP!!!!!!! PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!!! SHUT YOUR MOUTHS because YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!! Get it???? Remember the Bible folks,…. He who is WITHOUT SIN, CAST THE FIRST STONE! That says it all. Do I feel bad for the victims? Of course I do!!!!! Do I feel bad for their family? Yes, and I also feel bad for Michael, who, in a stupid moment and decision in time and space, committed this horrible tragedy. But do I think he deserves Hell? No way. Thank heaven that GOD ALMIGHTY is the ONE who determines our fate, and not you stupid, ignorant people out there, who think that they could make that decision themselves! My hat goes off to the victim’s families and their compassion and understanding of this tragic situation. Even they, in all of their pain and suffering, realize that this guy did Not set out to murder, kill or harm anyone, that he just made a bad, a very bad choice, to get behind that wheel. I am sure that he is paying for that now, behind bars. His life is over, and he knows it. But there is another life, a much better life, for us all!!!! I am sure that the victims are with GOD now, and one day, Michael will be there too. We all need to Pray and ask for God’s forgiveness, for none of us are any better than the other!!!!!!!
I have never gotten drunk, and therefore I have never drunk-driven. I have never done anything to put someone else in harms way. I have occasionally lied, and I once stole a candy bar. I also cheated on a math test in 7th grade.
Where as there are people who drink drive, kill people, have been busted for possession sometime in the past (So they obviously don’t give a crap about their own braincells, let alone anyone elses), and then stand up in court and plead not guilty. That’s the difference.
–Lindy
You have to confess your sins to be absolved of them. Michael Gagnon just plead not-guilty in a court of law. His lawyer is trying to reach out and offer some kind of settlement to the griffin family. That’s Wergild, that’s blood money.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wergild
“The system was common among the Scandinavian and Teutonic peoples previous to the introduction of Christianity, and a scale of payments, graduated according to the heinousness of the crime, was fixed by laws, which further settled who could exact the blood-money, and who were entitled to share it.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_money_%28term%29
Michael is refusing salvation by refusing to plead guilty to the crimes he committed.
Re-read the passage of the bible where Christ spoke of casting stones, specifically John Chapter 8 verses 2-11.
“go, and sin no more”
Does bearing false witness against yourself sound like sinning no more?
Again, stop appealing to some higher power when dealing with secular justice. The purpose of our legal code is to defend us, and one of the aspects of our punishment system is to give people who have no fear of the normal consequences of their crime something to fear. It’s inherent in our religious systems as well, where we threaten the sinner with the fear of Hell to help them to see a passage of redemption, in the rejection of sin.
That said, Michael will have to find salvation and forgiveness from God, not the people he wronged or the people who demand justice.
Again, I repeat myself, if Christ came to pardon all who have committed crimes, why then did he focus on the conversion of the two thieves rather than their instant and granted release?
Christ’s message is the salvation of the immortal. You’re reading the words wrong if you fail to understand the purpose of that salvation. It doesn’t save you from the Lion’s den physically, it saves your immortality. Here in the secular realm, we’re able even to ask God to grant Michael absolutely no refuge from justice.
I hate this argument in religiosity because you have far less ground to stand on than you possibly could know. You and people like you continue to try to change the venue for Michael’s crimes to one of a spiritual nature. We get to say what we damn well please about him as long as it’s true.
Michael plead Not-Guilty yesterday.
Bethany, Vadie, Lacie, Haley and Jordan are still dead.
Here’s a video of Bethany handing out gift bags at Beau and Lacie’s birthday party.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=26204261
Wait a second. No one has said that they are perfect. Of course I make mistakes and I’m sure everyone else here does as well. I’m not making judgements as to the state of his soul. That is between him and his maker and only he knows if he’s truly remorseful. However, my mistakes don’t cost 5 people their lives. That’s a little more than a “mistake”. As I said before, if he was willing to go driving in that condition on that particular evening, it’s a pretty safe bet that he’s done it before, making that a pattern of behavior and significantly more than a one time mistake. He repeatedly ignored indications that perhaps he shouldn’t be driving. He chose to get keys to someone else’s vehicle and leave that party. He is choosing to plead not guilty when true remorse would make any other person plead guilty if for nothing else than to give the family some measure of peace. I don’t condemn him to hell as I’m not fit for that, but our society can’t tolerate that kind of behavior and I am fit to judge that. If you want to forgive and forget, that’s fine for you. I have absolutely no sympathy or tolerance for drunk drivers and I don’t think I’m in the minority. He deserves to be reviled and he will be.
*raises hand* I have never driven drunk, or even buzzed. I have also never driven under the influence of anything other then being sleepy or angry (which has been very rare and often a short distance.) In your eyes, I guess that makes me perfect. By your response, this means that because humans are fallible that it’s OK to drive drunk or get high and think red means go and run through red lights, or left means right and go the wrong way on an interstate. I’m only human is a poor defense, but is really the only honest defense your friend has. I really wish he had plead guilty, but since he didn’t it will only drag out a lot of pain for the surviving family members.
What if he had plead not guilty by reason of insanity? What if Michael truely is crazy… and was trying to commit suicide that night, but it just so happend he wasn’t the one who was killed? Then yeah he would be legally insane. What if Michael had had a rough few years, and just wanted out of life all together. Would he still be guilty in your eyes?
Wouls it make you feel any better if Michael was in a mental home for a few years, and then released, because he wasn’t ‘legally’ insane anymore?
Seriously… had he plead guilty, he wouldn’t have been given a fair trial, which every person, criminal or not, deserves. I’m sure he didn’t make the decision as to what to plea, that is what a lawyer is for.
“What if he had plead not guilty by reason of insanity?”
He’d lose that case, just like the majority of people who plead not-guilty by reason of insanity do.
“What if Michael truely is crazy… and was trying to commit suicide that night, but it just so happend he wasn’t the one who was killed?”
There are more effective methods for suicide.
“Then yeah he would be legally insane.”
Nope, you should carefully research these statements. Insane is a legal term with a very constrained definition. You can be suicidal and still know the difference between right and wrong.
“What if Michael had had a rough few years, and just wanted out of life all together. Would he still be guilty in your eyes?”
yes
“Wouls it make you feel any better if Michael was in a mental home for a few years, and then released, because he wasn’t ‘legally’ insane anymore?”
No, if he was ever released from a mental home, I’d want to know how they determined he was safe to return to society. There’s a reason they’ll never let Charles Manson out.
“Seriously… had he plead guilty, he wouldn’t have been given a fair trial, which every person, criminal or not, deserves.”
If he had plead guilty, his fair trial would have been over. He did the crime, he should ask for the maximum sentence possible.
“I’m sure he didn’t make the decision as to what to plea, that is what a lawyer is for.”
What he’s probably looking for is a plea deal, and the DA is denying him any sort of offer unless the family of the victims and the victims themselves come forward and plead his case to the DA.
What do you think the weather in hell will be like on that day?
he won’t get the maximum. the most he’ll get is 25 years.
“he won’t get the maximum. the most he’ll get is 25 years.”
let’s see… 5 counts of AVM max for each is 10, composite is 40, let’s call it 6 years each, that’s 30 years.
2 counts of Aggravated Assault, 5 years each, let’s say he only gets half, that’s another 5 years stacked on.
If he antagonizes the judge and asks for a Jury trial, then the judge will be far less lenient in sentencing. Hopefully the full family will get to speak at the sentencing, and then the judge can be swayed to make the penalty the maximum possible and we can be rid of this disease for a few decades.
I feel your pain but it won’t be made a capital oofense. does he deserve the full weight of the law? Yes he does. Does it suck that he survived? Yes it does. Do I think he deserves the full figty years? Yes I do. On the subject of capital punishment however… it will never pass. Murder requries intent, drunken drivers, while playing russian roulette, do not set wake up their morning with the intent of killing someone, including Gagnon, which is why it will never pass. Having said that, He’s 24 now, he doesn’t deserve to see the outside world again until he’s 74.
That’s so so sad…the msgs left on the Mothers My Space page had me in tears.
Watch out! There are Gagnon’s about!!!
From The Toledo Blade:
Mr. Gagnon’s appearance is the second time within the past seven days that a member of the family has faced drunken-driving charges in court. His brother Samuel, 21, pleaded guilty Jan. 11 to a misdemeanor drunken-driving charge in Sylvania Municipal Court. He was arrested Aug. 25 by the Ohio Highway Patrol driving northbound on U.S. 23 between Airport Highway and Central Avenue.
His blood-alcohol content results registered a 0.168 percent.
Mr. Sanders said that the stop was unrelated to Michael Gagnon’s case and that the reason the charge was only recently resolved is because his court dates had been continued so that the trooper could appear.
The younger Mr. Gagnon pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor. He was fined, had his license suspended for six months, and was ordered into alcohol treatment.
Mr. Sanders, who also represented the younger Gagnon brother, said it was Samuel Gagnon’s first offense.
all the ones making laws are drunks. drunks enforcing the laws on drunks. these drunks like mike gagnon have tough jobs and need to unwind.let the drunks bury the drunks. .let the christians go to heaven, christians do not have to forgive non christians. we are in the world but not a part of it.
Unbelievable. I stumbled across this website cause I was so saddened and horrified by this case and wondered what news about it had transpired. To find people actually defending Gagnon is appalling. To find others in some way impugning Mr. Griffin is transcendent in some way that I can’t even understand. It defies belief. If there is not severe punishment in this life for Gagnon then the criminal justice system has surpassed itself yet again in its ability to excuse criminal behavior. I’ll leave the post-life consequences to God…even though this site is apparently devoted in some way to hellish speculations.
My question is, why hadn’t the kid at Taco bell had a half a brain to delay the order for MG? Or why hadn’t the police that were informed that this drunk was at Taco Hell, ask the 7.00/hr kid to DELAY his order so the cops could intercept him? It would have been so simple to just delay his order and give the cops time to get to Taco Bell in time.
Y’know, all this debating and gnashing of teeth is really irrelevant. It doesn’t matter if M.G. was a good man or not. It doesn’t matter who gets labelled as “enablers”. It is very, VERY simple.
One man got stupid drunk, drove and killed almost an entire family. This ONE man did it. HE made the choice to go driving. HE’S the one who fu**ed up. Now he has to pay the piper.
It mystifies me how people can get so drunk and STILL think “HEY it’s a GREAT time to go driving!” when it should be SO obvious, even to the most inebriated, that it’s hazardous to even WALK AROUND, much less operate a vehicle. It’s so stupid. So so STUPID.
I hope this shining specimen of human intelligence gets nailed to the wall for a good long time.
You people are all nuts…Nobody has the right to say anyone is going to hell..That is God’s decision. Michael will be forgiven as will you assholes…I pray for both families involved in this tradegy.
you people all make me sick……….i hope and pray that someday your family never goes through what either one of these familys are going through. you have no idea the facts of anything you wanna go on what you hear in the news when half of that im sure if false, and for you to bash his family, grow the fuck up and get the fuck off your god complex!! im sure your family is the fucking Bradys right so fuckin perfect!
everything that Jason was saying about him…..im sorry do you know him, did you pull his personell file? or did you interview his family and friends? did you talk to him personally to say such horrible things about him? do you call the school to get his transcripts? and where you there at “this white trash family party”? did you sit w/ his family? ooo wait thats right you didnt, i understand that you lost people that you were obviously very very close with, and for that im sure his family feels extreamly sorry and no matter how many times that they say that it will not change what happedned or bring them back, but in the same respect, judgeing and wanting mike dead will not bring them back either, and i know that bethany was a great, possibly amazing person and ask yourself, do you think that she would say the horrible things that you and the rest of this forum is saying, do you think think that your dear friend would sit here and wish death on someone that she has not met…..should he be punished for what he did ABSOLUTLY!! 100% but this WAS NOT premeditated and he did not go after this family. IT was an ACCIDENT, i understand that you are hurting and i would not take that from you in anyway, and that everything you say is out of anger, and justifible, but you can not sit there and make false statements about a person that you have no idea who they are or who they were before this accedent.
Michael will be forgiven as will you assholes…I pray for both families involved in this tradegy.
“those with out sin shall cast the first stone”
Marcia, Marcia, Marcia. He drove drunk. He killed people. These are not judgements; these are truths. What makes it even more atrocious is the fact that he could have stayed right where he was and just passed out there. But he didn’t
Without outrage over actions like these a message is sent to others that such poor judgement carries no stigma. Well, I believe, drinking and driving should carry a stigma. I know a few great people who have gotten behind the wheel when they shouldn’t have, it made me just as angry as it does in this case. They deserved the hassle and expense of a DUI. If these people had killed someone, then I would be the first to want to see them pay. Mr. Gagnon may well be a wonderful person, but the blood on his hands makes it a little hard to have mercy on his soul.
God may forgive assholes; that is his job not ours.
“everything that Jason was saying about him…..im sorry do you know him, did you pull his personell [SIC] file?”
I pulled his criminal record and the police report on this accident.
I followed up with a host of available and legal records. Pulling his school records would be illegal. Pulling the posting of those records by a commercial background check firm is perfectly legal. Facts, I have them, you don’t.
You aren’t Marcia Brady, you’re the same waste of space that’s continuously mangled the English language while you “defended him” throughout this entire “debate.”
You continuously conflate my argument with arguments from others. I’m motivated by feelings but follow through with rational proof and factual findings. I know for example that Michael’s Aunt went to the Spaghetti Fund Raiser for the dead and tried to talk to Danny Griffin and deliver Rick Sanders message, even though the prosecutor in the case told Sanders, the press and the rest of your family to leave them alone. You failed, and there should be consequences for those actions.
The prosecutor is not going to hear a plea agreement in this case. I’m going to spend a portion of the rest of my life trying to get the laws changed so the next Michael Gagnon who drives drunk and kills people is executed. I believe it’s necessary and should have been the case with Michael Gagnon.
As to:
“do you think that she would say the horrible things that you and the rest of this forum is saying, do you think think that your dear friend would sit here and wish death on someone that she has not met”
If she had survived the accident, and Michael Gagnon had still killed her 4 daughters, we’d have carried her into the court room so she could tell it to Michael and you 13 others, in person.
To think that any mother would not want her children’s murderer dead, within 25 days of when they died is rather naive even for you.
Stop wasting your time defending Michael.
Spend that time where you should have spent it before.
Read a book(it will help with your spelling), help get your family off drugs and alcohol, save money to send your kids to better schools than you went to, and understand that what you’re saying isn’t more understanding or more reasonable, it’s absent of any position other than compassion to Michael. You have no compassion for anyone or anything else. That’s a reasonable grounds for insanity.
“100% but this WAS NOT premeditated and he did not go after this family. IT was an ACCIDENT, i understand that you are hurting and i would not take that from you in anyway, and that everything you say is out of anger, and justifible, but you can not sit there and make false statements about a person that you have no idea who they are or who they were before this accedent.”
I wasn’t going to bother to respond to this particular aspect of your argument, but this gauntlet should be thrown down in earnest.
Show us something factual. We have the details that actually paint the picture of his official record. We can see his bad grades, we can see his earlier criminal actions (drunk driving reduced to MIP possibly by Rick Sanders), we can see Alcohol was a family affair(private family section at a family owned bar), a family problem (Samuel’s conviction and is that a charge against his father? Is that how his father was crippled and had to retire from Ford? Tell us it isn’t so; I can’t get all of the details from police reports), and is the accessory Michael used along with the truck to kill 5 people.
I might actually find it in my heart to forgive Michael some day, some time from now, but pleading not-guilty so he can buy some time for his lawyer to “try” and get a plea agreement in place, isn’t winning any sort of forgiveness in the near future.
Marcia/Ashley whoever you actually are, you keep on talking about how we “make you sick,” have you ever stopped for one second to think about what we think about you? Have you ever stopped for one second to realize that you sound just like the nutjobs in the Manson family who defended Charles Manson in the press? Oh wait, you’re too young to remember that aren’t you?
Pay special attention to John in the mask.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FTej_dRmqh4
You people crack me up. There are a few intelligent individuals posting here but the rest are uneducated morons. I’m not particulary interested in what this idiot was like before he wiped out a whole family. That’s not really the point, eh? It’s pretty clear that the issue here is, was he driving drunk? did he kill all those poor babies? From what I am seeing, the answer is YES and YES. End of story. Put him away and let him rot all the while thinking about that tiny baby’s body scattered on the highway. Now THAT is justice!!!
P. S. Paper his cell with pictures from the accident scene. That should give him nightmares for the rest of his sorry life.
He has seen all the pics,does that make you feel better,Kim?And yes he has nightmares every night,does that make you better Kim?
Yup, I am.
Yeah, me too. I will admit that I drink and drive, soda that it or water. When I have my flask (the cup for the drunk on the go), I am walking the streets of Newport, RI in a drunken haze, happy as a fucking clam. I park my car at my friends place and just wander around on foot. Then I crash there and drive back to base when i sober up. The worst thing I’ve done drunk is punch a dude in the nuts.
Now for a list of my other “sins”
1. I dip. Chicks don’t dip, according to the rest of civilized society, so that makes me eee-vil.
2. I have a FWB. (Friend with benefits) Pre-marraige sex is a sin to most Christians. However I do not believe that and I’m a freakin’ Pentecostal!
3. My language can make a drunk marine blush. I swear like a motherfucker. Wooooo, eeee-vil
Am I going to hell? Nope. I commited myself to Christ. I am sure I will take some fire for my comment, but I am what I am and I believe what I believe. Just deal with it. Grow up, ignore the social prejudices and deal with it.
Kevin Tunell killed an 18 year-old girl and after a sentence, and a few other little details he was ordered to send a check for one dollar every Friday for 18 years, as well as serve 6 years of community service trying to prevent drunk driving.
Obviously it wasn’t enough. Michael still got loaded up and killed an entire family. What does it take to get through to people like Michael, Samuel, Ashley and all of the rest?
would a movie help?
http://www.hbofamily.com/apps/schedule/ScheduleServlet?ACTION_DETAIL=DETAIL&FOCUS_ID=551990
Hmmm….one dollar every Friday for 18 years. I calculated that to come out to $936. Not very much for taking someone’s life eh? Sigh….I wonder how much it would be for killing 5 people from ONE family? $5 every Friday? sheesh…that would be something. I’m thinking that isn’t good enough. My wall-papering idea was excellent don’t you think? :) Now THAT would make a person think a whole minute before going out and driving drunk again!!! Then again, maybe not. You can’t cure stupid.
it was the requirement that they be one dollar checks, and getting them in the family’s hands on time.
Kevin tried to get out of it.
“Put him away and let him rot all the while thinking about that tiny baby’s body scattered on the highway.”
The baby wasn’t scattered, she dies at the hospital, just to clarify that.
“The baby wasn’t scattered, she dies at the hospital, just to clarify that.”
Does that make you feel better?
Jordan was tossed under the van, Haley had a hole in her head and Bethany had all of her teeth bashed out, when she was thrown buckled into her seat, 25 feet!
The baby’s neck was broken by the impact. Massive concussion. There would have been nothing the doctors could have done if they’d been there seconds after the freaking accident had happened.
Nothing.
60 mph, 3 times over the legal limit, and in the wrong direction on the interstate for 4+ miles.
He didn’t have the keys in his pocket because the keys were left in the van. He used keyless entry to get in the truck.
Was it you? Were you supposed to be the Designated driver Anonymous?
I log on here every day to read what people are saying.
Jason, you amaze me. I can’t beleive the things that I read from you. I’m not angry at all for what you are saying, but some of what your saying are false statements about our family. Once again, I can not control what you are saying/writing, but some of the things you’ve stated about my family and some of the incidents are not true.
I’ve advised all my family not to post on this blog or any other blog, so I don’t know who this Marsha Brady/Anonymous person is, but it needs to stop. So I’m asking anyone who knows Mike and is posting here, please just stop. I truely understand the need to defend him, but in reality, we can’t. I’m taking my own advice that I gave my family, and this is my first and last posting. Good Day…..
“Jason, you amaze me. I can’t beleive the things that I read from you.”
You can’t believe what I’m saying?
Can you be more specific?
You mean Samuel didn’t have a DUI?
You mean the key wasn’t locked in the car and then Michael didn’t use the keyless entry on the door to get in?
You mean you don’t believe Michael was 3 times over the legal limit, drove the wrong way on the interstate?
You mean you didn’t read the huge number of grammatical errors in your family members’ letters to the press where they stated:
“The sudden and devastating loss of such innocent lives, those that did not have the chance to make much of an impact upon those outside of the immediate family, is a loss of unbearable tolerance. And for this, we are all truly at a standstill to you how we feel right now.”
Did you read these words out loud to hear how they sound?
“much of an impact”
And there you sit in court, all 13 of you, standing behind and up for Michael. You call it a mistake, an accident and worse and you never, ever let him truly take responsibility for his actions.
You continually make those back handed apologies to the press and yet you never stop to think about what you’re actually doing. You’re saying it will be alright for others to do this. You’re offering an example to other families to “stand behind” their criminal in the family. You hired a lawyer to get him out of trouble like he just did for Samuel.
There are people worse than you. I’ll freely admit that. Those Phelps monsters who picket the funerals of war dead, Bethany and the girls, and now Heath Ledger (????? BOGGLE?????) are a factor of magnitude worse than you are, but you keep on doing your evil. You keep on trying to “help” to ease Michael out of the consequences for his actions.
Let him be a man for once and stand up and take responsibility for his actions. He was not and is not a child in any of this so stop protecting him like he is one.
Phelps is the anti-christ. I’m sure of that
Gagnon family since you are reading this, there is no defense for the Monster. What he did will never be forgiven by the public. I can’t believe you waste your time in court supporting him. Let him deal with these murders on his own. Enable him some more, why don’t you. The only way an alcoholic comes to grip with his disease is by fully facing the pain. Coddling that Monster ain’t helping.
Jason has the truth of it down. He knew that what he was doing was wrong, he decided to do it anyways. An entire family would be alive if he would have done what he knew was right and stayed put or let someone else drive. He chose to do something wrong, and the worst possible thing that could happen did. Anyone who drinks and drives knows what could happen. And you can not get so drunk that you don’t know what you’re doing. I’ve been so drunk that I couldn’t hardly walk before and I still managed to know right from wrong.
Abi- you are a moron condemning children to hell- my only consolation is that when Michael Gagnon burns in hell you can sit next to him and hold his hand since you love him so much.
First of all, I think that it is pathetic that he decided to get behind the wheel. Secondly, I cannot even imagine what it feels like for both of the families. I mean, the fact that both of the families are going to have to deal with this horrible tragedy for the rest of tehir lives is quite depressing. It also makes me completely disgusted knowing that those innocent people were killed because of alcohol. If you are going to drink, drink responsibly. Know your limit, and when you start to feel completely belligerent, stop drinking. Do not get behind the wheel of a car! And the fact that he was able to take a vehicle and drive it…. They should have not let him leave taco bell, I would have made sure he did not leave taco bell, in fact I would have drove him back to where he needed to go. I feel so horrible for that family, like I cannot even think of words to express how I feel. That is just horrible!
And to the people leaving retarded comments that have nothing to do with this post, really need to find something better to do with their time. I do not know any of these people involved in this horrific tragedy, I just happened to read about it, and I started crying because it is so sad.
I feel so bad for everyone in both of the families involved. I am so sorry. And to everyone else, if you choose to drink just have a designated driver for the love of god!
I just looked at the Rodeo Bar myspace website… I am truly shocked. When the page loads it is nothing but bottles of hard booze at first. I think this is a revised website too since I was on their right after the murders…
It just seems so incredibly wrong to have such a website like this after what happened. It is almost like they are making a mockery of the tragedy?
From the Toledo Blade
Rodeo Bar owners face drug charges
Steroids found on site after fatal I-280 crash
By MEGHAN GILBERT
BLADE STAFF WRITER
Three owners of the Rodeo Bar and Grill in Oregon have been charged criminally for storing steroids and syringes at the business.
Michael Yousif, 26, of 2917 Riva Ridge Rd., Ottawa Hills; Johnathan Roumaya, 23, of 3140 Shoreland Ave., Washington Township, and Glenn Murdzia, 22, of 1645 Longfellow Drive, Temperance, were charged by Oregon police with drug offenses after a search warrant served earlier this month in the wake of a wrong-way crash on I-280 that killed a mother and four children.
All three face misdemeanor charges of permitting drug abuse.
Mr. Yousif, who was present during the search, also faces charges of possession of dangerous drugs and possession of drug abuse instruments, both misdemeanors.
He also has a felony drug charge for unapproved drugs because one of the items found, Clenbuterol, is a steroid used in meat production that’s banned in the United States.
The Rodeo Bar and Grill, 3150 Navarre Ave., is believed to be where Michael Gagnon, 24, of Adrian was drinking prior to getting onto I-280 the wrong way on Dec. 30 and crashing the pickup he was driving into a van.
Mr. Yousif and Mr. Roumaya are listed on the Rodeo Bar’s liquor license. The license could be revoked because Clenbuterol, the human growth hormone Jintropin, and hypodermic syringes were found in a closed filing cabinet in a basement office.
The Ohio Department of Public Safety’s investigative unit cited the establishment for improper conduct for drug possession and improper conduct for drug paraphernalia possession.
After the investigation is complete, the business will have a hearing before the Liquor Control Commission, which can make a decision ranging from dismissing the case to revoking the license.
Authorities initially searched the bar for videotapes, receipts, bar tabs, financial records, and employee records as part of the crash investigation, and then came across the steroids.
The investigation into items from the search continues, said Lindsay Komlanc, a spokesman for the Ohio Department of Public Safety.
The bar owners are to appear in Oregon Municipal Court on Feb. 26 on the criminal charges.
The charges were filed Wednesday. The men were arraigned the same day and released on their own recognizance.
Toledo attorney John Potts, who is representing the owners, said the drugs found in the bar were personal-use quantities and he’s not convinced the evidence shows that Mr. Yousif was in possession of them.
He was charged with the possession offenses because he was at the desk of the bar’s office area during the search and the items were found in a file cabinet directly to his right, according to court documents.
The items found are listed as a blister pack containing nine tablets of Clenbuterol, a bottle with liquid Clenbuterol, several vials of the human growth hormone Jintropin, and a bag containing syringes and more human growth hormone.
“They are basically body-building drugs,” Mr. Potts said. “The information available indicated that the quantity of substances found are user quantities and there have been no allegations of sales or trafficking.”
Mr. Potts said that the three owners, two managers, and 25 employees of the bar had access to the office and that the drugs were in a “junk drawer.”
Mr. Potts said his clients are cooperating with authorities throughout the investigation because they feel awful about everything that’s happened.
He described the bar owners as young men who work hard.
“They feel terrible,” he said. “These guys are just traumatized by this.”
The family in the van was heading back to the Baltimore area after visiting relatives in the Detroit area when the crash occurred.
Bethany Griffin, 36; Jordan Griffin, 10; Lacie Burkman, 7; Haley Burkman, 10, and Vadie Griffin, 8 weeks, were killed. The driver of the van, Danny Griffin, Jr., 26, and his daughter, Sydney Griffin, 8, were hurt seriously. Another passenger, Beau Burkman, 8, had minor injuries.
Mr. Gagnon has pleaded not guilty in Lucas County Common Pleas Court to five counts of aggravated vehicular homicide and two counts of aggravated vehicular assault.
He is being held in the county jail in lieu of a $1.75 million bond and faces up to 50 years in prison if he is convicted on all charges.
God ALONE will judge this man, Michael Gagnon. Sorry folks, but THIS IS JUST PRETEND.. and I thank God that none of you will ever decide the destination of this man’s.. or anyone’s immortal soul. Is there anyone who didn’t know that?
Well, gosh Grace. I’m all disappoited and stuff now. I thought for SURE I was going to get to decide this guy’s fate. Thanks for ruining my damn day!!!
LOL! kim
:)
This is pretend?
*ring*
Hello Satan? Yeah, it’s me again…so…about all those guys I’ve been condemning to hell on that website? Yeah. Well apparently that website wasn’t really your portal to Hell. Yeah I know right? Well I guess I’ll have to borrow that Dirt Devil afterall. Sorry boss. Yeah. So how’s the wife and kid doing? Oh yeah, sorry to hear that, hope her burn gets better. OK, I’ll talk to you later, bye.
hahahhahaha This one cracked me up!! Take THAT, Eric. Yes, I laughed at Kenny who was being facetious just for YOU!!! Bite me.
Nebraska Mom, kenny and kim — why don’t you grow up and leave this post! You three are worst scum than who were talking about.
Ok fine. I’ll leave this post since you told me to. Wait. You are NOT the boss of me. And I am NOT scum thank you very much. Quit crying and YOU grow up. Ever heard of freedom of speech? Geez.
Eric-WTF are you talking about? Is my LOL at kim really that offensive to you? I so, LOL! LOL! to Kim :) I have yet to weigh in on this POS and his POS family. They defend him to no means as if this family were the ones at fault for being there, on their side of the road. This family really need to take a good hard look at themselves and ask themselves how they would feel if it were Mike, his brother and the cousins who were ‘smashed’ to bits while driving down the road by some drunken asshole. They would want that person to go straight to HEll, don’t not pass go do not collect your $200. No I have not thought to comment on this yet because I felt Jason, Glory, Brittany Kim and the rest of the POS condemers were doing a fine job. But, now I will put my thoughts into the mix so that you can pass judgement and call me scum with actually having something to back that opinion up. Although I don’t think that I am scum, mushless worse than Mike and his clan of druckers (drunk fuckers, for those not from Nebraska) HGH using/selling losers whom defy all that’s great in the world. That’s the problem with people like Mike, as long as someone (anyone) sticks up for them they think that whatever choices they make, no matter how it affects innocent people, they think they will forgiven! Maybe he won’t go to hell, maybe God will forgive him, maybe Jesus did die on a cross for his sins. I really don’t know these things, I have yet to experience meeting these spirits, what ever they are, and getting it straight from them. But, on the other hand, I know how the human mentallity works, and I am no different than most level-headed clear non-jilted people and I vote “Hell” for him and if that’s how I truely feel there is no way of changing that, No Matter how immature you think I am and you can call me all the names you want, until I see or hear evidence differing from what Jason has so kindly made available to me, Mike is still a Piece Of Shit in my book. Some of his supports are saying that HE doesn’t deserve to die or give up his life or even go to HELL for that matter, well that is their opinion. They can have it. I don’t care. In MY opinion Bethany and her children DID NOT deserve what MIKE did to them! He did this all on his own! I was not there twisting his scrawny assed arms. I didn’t tell him to “go get some Taco Bel and by the way, Kill almost a whole fucking family in the process!” If I were there, which I would hang out with this spectrum of LOSERS, I most certainly would NOT have given him the keys. He got them from someone, it wasn’t like he drove him own vehicle. Maybe he stole the truck and that would make him a thief also. So if the ‘slaughtering of a family’ doesn’t qualify him for Hell then the whole “Thou shalt NOT steal” thing should. Right? Regardless, It was HIS CHOICE to drive therefore it was HIS CHOICE to kill these people. He needs to take responsibility for that and own it. His family and friends can’t do that for him, It’s ALL his.
Oh and by the way, I could really care less of what you think of me! But be assured I will post alot more now that I know it upsets you! hahahahahaha!!!!!!
woohoooooo NM!!! You GO girl!! I was trying to figure out what you posted that made you scum along with me and Kenny, but all you did was laugh at me. You do that alot so I guess you are just a big ol’ scum bucket. hahahahah. This guy is nuts. We have to learn to ignore the lesser of our species, I suppose. It’s hard to do sometimes, ain’t it? hahahha.
Kim- yea, I guess according to Eric we’re even bigger scum than Murderous Mike. I just don’t get people sometimes. oooo…like at me the big ol’ scum bag! Does that make my ol’ mad a scum sucker? eeehem, I mean Scum Fucker? LOL!!! ya know that kinda makes me horney. Now I’m gonna go get laid, which is something that Good ol’ Murderous Mike won’t be doing with a female for quite awhile. Hahahahaha!! Justice for me!!!
Well maybe if Eric gets conjy’ visits with him, cuz Eric sounds like a Pussy too me! LOL!!!
You guys are taking this out of hand. Get your panties in a bunch all you want. This place is for opinion, we are not making anyones fate. lmfao
Eric? Worse scum then who we’re talking about? You wound me sir. Your words on an internet comment site about a person guilty of multiple homicide and saying I am worse the he just does the damage of a knife, really.
OK, so I exaggerate, but let’s look at in perspective there ok? Eric? Bite my foreskin off.
Eric, are you Mike’s “friend” too?
Coming here to defend him because you knew him and don’t care if he killed anyone?
So Silly. All this talk about ‘fate’ and all.
And the uproar caused by anonymous people about what should be the fate of other people.
Silly, because every one of these people decides their own fate the second they decide to abuse/molest/rape/murder or get behind the wheel when they’re drunk. Of course, while they’re at it, they also are selfishly deciding other innocent people’s fate at the same time.
Try getting offended about that for a change. You might find it feels a little more logical and natural than wasting your time spewing about people whose comments on a wesite don’t actually decide anyone’s fate.
And, if you can’t manage to figure out how to do that, why not expend your energy working to get criminal law changed so that drunk drivers, murderers, pedos and the like can get their little wrists slapped a little lighter… work to repeal ALL criminal prosecution, and just let the ‘big guy’ make all the judgments after they and all their victims are dead.
Oh, I thought not. Even the holier-than-thou’s seem to always have some ‘pet’ crime they appreciate criminals being prosecuted, judged and punished for.
______________
Kenny- I can appreciate the generous offer you made Eric… eek! But guys have always told me that’s a painful operation, teeth or no teeth. Have they all just been joshing me?
c
Jason and Kenny – you both are urine bags in my book. grow the fuck up and get the hell off this site. You both are nothing but dog shit to me
Eric, if I am dogshit I hope you step on me so I may stay with you forever…it’s impossible to get that crap out of your shoes!!!
*off topic* GB-I’m told it hurts like hell after you have grown, that’s why they do it to babies now, since they are already in constant pain anyway I guess what’s just one more thing? They heal quickly and, as anyone that’s been bit there would tell you, it’ sensitive but heals quickly anyway.
Jason,
Thank you very much for clarifying just about all of the why’s I keep asking myself. I did not know any of them personally. Bethany was on groups that I belonged to. We all miss her and her children so very much. We will always cherish the beautful pictures of her children and sharing special moments in her life. She was a wonderful person, mother & friend to everyone she met.
The why I still keep asking is you have not mentioned anything about Lacie or Sydney. Where were they in the van? What happened to Lacie? I know Sydney survived but how? Thank God that at least Danny, Beau & Sydney survived. I hope their injuries heal faster then the pain that was caused my one careless mistake too many!!
Sydney was still in the car when Dan found her; she’s still alive so I don’t want to talk about her injuries. They’re personal and private to her and her family, but they were critical and she rode through them like a champion.
Beau was protected by a shell of material within the car. He was unscathed(thankfully and miraculously), and because of vagaries in Ohio law, the Prosecutor in the case did not pursue an Assault or Aggravated assault case against Michael on Beau’s behalf. For Beau, he gets off free of charges.
When the conversations came to Lacie, I could not go there, I could not ask that question or read the material and even skipped a bit of it, I know where she was sitting and that she died shortly after impact. I see these pictures in my mind of this happy, beaver sawed(not an insult, she had pretty, adult front teeth that shone through her smile) girl in a witch outfit, a cheerleader outfit, or a mermaid princess outfit. In my nightmares, I can see what happened to all of the rest, and it’s bad enough, but I have a pretty good block about Lacie. I don’t know and I freely admit to not ever wanting to go there.
She was asleep, as was everyone else except for Dan. I have to keep on thinking about that or I will hold onto this anger forever.
Jason,
Thank you for letting me know. I did not mean to pry in any way so please do not think that was my intent. It was simply closure for myself. I completely understanding your not wanting to talk about it but in the same sense needing your own closure. I did feel much better knowing they were all asleep. My daughter reminds me very much of Lacie and I think that’s why this has bothered me so much. Also seeing posts from Bethany not so long ago really bothered me as well.
It has however made me want to change laws. I have written to the correct people here and am currently waiting for my replies. I have also joined an on line chapter for Bethany and the girls. I’m not sure how many states are participating but there will be a walk for the Griffin-Burkman family in July.
Thanks again and I’m so very sorry for your loss!!
i still feel that dwi laws should be strictly enforced. too many families have been devastated just like this.
I am going to talk out my ass for a bit because I have no idea what I am talking about. First in my opinion he deserves to die. Why, because it was premedatated. Nope, he didn’t plan to kill my family that night but he knew he could kill someone that night. Well, how did he know this you ask. Now some info I hvae is just hearsay and his family can argue it, if they dare. My understanding is that he has been pulled over for DUI’S and his brother as well. I ask the family to tell me that they never sat around and had the YOU COULD HAVE KILLED SOMEONE TALK. Has he ever watched the news and saw where someone drank to much and killed someone. I am sure he was well aware of what drinking and drinking could do.
You see I am sure he has drank many times as have most of us. The thing is from the first, to the second, to the third and on and on he was at a stage where he was in control and decided on his own to continue drinking to that point that he was familiar with and get drunk. You see most of us drink and when we get to a point we say well that’s enough for me I have to drive home. The difference is some people say screw it and order another drink. He was in control and he knew that having more and more drinks would put everyone at risk when he got behind the wheel and drove. Being drunk is his defense, getting drunk was his choice.
His family isn’t going to respond anymore Jack. If I knew you or anyone else wanted to weigh in, I’d have sent you the link. You more than I had a right to get some answers and wring some feeling out of this. If you want, you can get my phone number from Dino and we can talk it out and I can show you the other places on the internet where these morons were and were not countered, but this one shows up top of the list in Google for a lot of good reasons.
Jack, his family continues to defend him online.
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=307161215&blogID=358156264
Apparently, the particular blog post in the link above has been made unavailable to public viewing.
with good reason
It was headed in the wrong direction.
I know this post is a bit late for this forum thread.. My heart goes out to the victims family. And I agree, Michael should die.
“comment number 236 by: Eric
February 11th, 2008 at 8:11 am
Jason and Kenny – you both are urine bags in my book. grow the fuck up and get the hell off this site. You both are nothing but dog shit to me”
And who the fuck do you think you are to anyone else? Trust me pal, no one gives a fuck about your dumbass.
Jason had some great advice for the Gagnon family/friends that needs repeating:
“Stop wasting your time defending Michael.
Spend that time where you should have spent it before.
Read a book(it will help with your spelling), help get your family off drugs and alcohol, save money to send your kids to better schools than you went to, and understand that what you’re saying isn’t more understanding or more reasonable, it’s absent of any position other than compassion to Michael. You have no compassion for anyone or anything else. That’s a reasonable grounds for insanity.”
POS mother is defending him on a myspace page. Judging by her grammar, she sounds like a big drunk too.
Clara keep responding online and that hole will get deeper. Your family is stupid beyond words.
MURDERER = MIKE GAGNON.
I would like to see that website
It’s amazing how so many people will be so quick to feed us all of their B.S. when it comes to tragedies like this, especially when some of the victims are children. I will begin by offering my condolences and prayers to the Griffin & Burkman Families. Secondly the same to Michael Gagnon and his family. The media will sensationalize this tragedy to the bitter end because these kinds of stories appeal to the genral public and sells papers. They will also likely misreport a lot of the facts and society in its naivety will beleive everything they read. The high ranking officials, politicians, members of M.A.D.D. and all other self rightious groups will have their say so as well and most of it will be for publicity, and of course all of them will pass judgement on Mr. Gagnon without even knowing anything about him. The prosecutor and judges and others responsible for taking legal action against him will sock it to him as hard as they can, especially if they are elected to the positions for with which they serve the public, and in fact will dish out a more severe sentence to him than they would to a habitual gang member or other thug with multiple offenses because of the pressures from the media,M.A.D.D., and the general public. In fact I would even go so far as to say that his attorney will probably tell him that he would have been able to get him off with less time if he would have pulled out a gun and shot all of the victims. There is no such Group as Mothers against Gang Violence because it has become a more acceptable crime(maybe because we as a society believe that it is OK to commit a crime if a person is cognizant as to what they are doing, more on this later regarding drivers). If the public of Ohio asks these same people to include the media, M.A.D.D., elected officals and the general public to take on the liquor lobby to pass laws to make it more difficult for people to by liquour conveniently the majority of them will balk at attempting such a task. In 2006 across the U.S.A there were almost 18,000 vehicular homicides which involved alcohol, but there were also many, many more which involved drivers who were driving irresponsibly and carelessly while using their cell phone, putting on their makeup, shaving, reading, eating, disicplining children, etc.,etc.,etc.,,and the people behind the wheel were cognizant of the fact that they weren’t paying attention to the task at hand, but it’s OK with us as a society because unlike the drunk driver they knew what they were doing. Where is the logic in that???? I would bet that at least 75% of the poeple or more whom are passing judgment and condemning Mr. Gagnon have or still drive while drinking or doing something else which constitutes careless and negligence driving, so they better take a good look at themselves before they cast the first stone. With tragedies like this one there are no winners. All of us lose except for those that profit from the only legal mind-altering drug in this God Loving and God fearing country of ours. God Bless.
1st off Caffeine is a mind altering drug(psychoactive stimulant in fact), but what you choose to do with it and how you choose to use it is what helps to determine how it affects you. There are in fact dozens of mind altering substances that are sold over the counter or come out of your faucet at home.
Mind alterations are primarily, however, the voluntary acceptance of one state over another through drink.
Michael Gagnon was not the first DUI that killed someone. He will not be the last. The penalties have stepped up consistently because the problem is not something the typical victims can avoid. You do not and cannot expect a guy 3 times the legal limit to come driving the opposite side of the highway for 4 miles to slam into your mini-van. You can choose to not enter or live in gang territory. You can choose not to engage in criminal activity, but how can you choose not to be hit by a drunk driver?
The responsibility was on Michael Gagnon to party responsibly. He could not do that and now the state will decide his fate, just as surely as if he had fired the gun, he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. If you yourself drink and drive, you should also be arrested, have your license taken from you and your citizenship rights reduced to those of a felon. Driving drunk, regardless of how many people do it is an obvious sign to society that you don’t know how to be a responsible adult and are not ready for freedom or any other responsibility that free citizens posses.
That’s why Michael Gagnon will go to jail. That’s why every other DUI should go to jail.
That’s why your defense of this crime in “context” fails so miserably.
I have been following the feed on this story and I am quite disturbed at the very least that Michael’s friends/family are first off able to spew out the words “accident” or “bad judgment”. This was neither. Although this “supposed” great human being may not have intended to go out and kill anyone, what he did was the equivalent of playing russian roulette with other people’s lives as well as his own. Everyone knows that getting into a vehicle while intoxicated, not only puts your life at risk but others as well. Secondly, for this man to plead not guilty after wiping out nearly an entire family just shows how morally bankrupt this person truly is. If he had any sense of remorse or decency, he would accept full responsibility and allow the court system to decide his fate. For his friends and family to not only support him in this, but to also come on this site and rush to his defense is sick, disrespectful to the victims’ family and also shows your lack of morality. If you had any common decency, you would be asking Michael to plead guilty and accept full responsibility. Instead you are wanting a more leanient sentence for your own selfish purposes so that you will see him go free earlier. At least you can still go visit him while in prison, whereas Mr. Griffin can only go visit his family at the graveyard that Michael put them in. How disgusting and self serving of you! Have you put yourself in the victims’ families’ shoes? How would you feel seeing the other person’s family run to the defense of the person that destroyed your family’s lives? Please for the sake of the family, stop trying to defend him – show some sympathy if you are even capable of that and keep your mouths shut so that they can mourn.
And as a matter of fact, I do know from experience. I am not proud to say this, but for argument’s sake, I had one uncle die before I was even born from a DUI accident. Luckily he did not kill anyone other than himself, but although my family still loves and misses him, not a single one felt he was not 100% responsible. Bottom line: YOU drink, YOU drive, YOU kill someone = YOU”RE GUILTY.
To the Griffin and Burkman families, my sincerest condolences. Jason, I applaud you 100% in helping to pursue this, I hope it helps you find closure and peace.
I have finally come to the conclusion that there are people in the world that don’t get it and will never get it. They are slow on the road to enlightenment and won’t get it in this lifetime. Don’t waste your energy. You don’t put diamonds in pigs stouts. Let them wallow in the shit that is their life.
I hate drunk driving with a passion and this insanity that is allowed needs to end..
I aggree 100% trashypeople…
And unfortunately it’s not going to stop. Not until society as a whole puts a stigma on drunk driving, not until Hollywood “stars” (I say that loosely because somehow Nicole Richie and Paris Hilton get lumped into that category) stop getting arrested for DUI’s as they pose with smirks on their faces for their mugshots trying to make what they did look cool.
I was speaking with my boyfriend last night and ironically, and very tragicly, an acquaintance of his decided to walk in Michael Gagnon’s shoes for a day and go drive drunk. Well apparently he killed the family in the car he hit as well as himself. Just sickening! But as my boyfriend pointed out, most young males from 18-25 feel invinceable behind the wheel, thinking the worse that will happen to them is a little fender bender. So the messages are not getting through. So instead of us (me included) being on this site bitching about it, what can we do? What steps can we take to help prevent this from happening? Ideas?
How can we prevent this from happening?
WE NEED STIFFER PUNISHMENT!!!.. Give them life in prison and or the death penalty for these kinds of murders. People would wise up really fast then and not drive drunk.
Also, ignition lock systems in all cars as standard equipment.
There are two routes, prevention and punishment. Make this a capital crime, and not even a presidential candidate can avoid the stigma attached to a Drunk Driving offense. you mentioned Paris hilton, but Dick Cheney has 2 offenses, the President has at least 1 and Ted Kennedy (that and sex scandals seem to be the only truly bipartisan activity in Washington) is the worst, having actually killed someone and gotten away with it so throughly that his own son, also a Congressman was found doing the exact same thing!
It is a generational thing! Samuel Gagnon had a DUI only a few months before Michael killed Bethany and the girls. Families of DUI criminals know the penalties aren’t that bad and seem almost in competition with one another to self destruct in this fashion. The one lasting reminder that might actually sink in through their skulls is the death penalty and public shame and humiliation like that attached to murder trials. Rarely do we see the family members of murderers follow in the footsteps of their murderous kin when the Death penalty is used. The added benefit of culling the herd of those who cannot accept responsibility for their actions might truly be preventative. Bind those examples to things like the mini-van from this DUI and it might actually reach people.
But there’s more. Ashley, one of Michael’s friends from High School said that 70% of Michael’s High School had Minor in Possession charges. That reflects poorly on the High School and on the community. Those children who receive a Minor in Possession should lose the right to drive until their 21st birthday. No Exceptions. Perhaps having their mother and fathers drive them to McDonalds to flip burgers every day will remind them that the drink they chose at age 14 cost them 7 years of mobility. At age 21, they can start with a learner’s permit, and by age 22 they can finally graduate to an actual license and possibly trusted again to act like a responsible adult.
It would not have saved the life of Bethany and the girls, but perhaps it could have instilled in other members of the family, the clear and real consequences so they might have held Michael back.
Update: Rick Sanders seeks to suppress evidence
Lawyer asks court to curtail evidence at fatal I-280 trial
By KATE GIAMMARISE
BLADE STAFF WRITER
An attorney representing Michael Gagnon, who is accused of killing five members of a Maryland family Dec. 30 in a wrong-way crash on I-280, has filed several motions in Lucas County Common Pleas Court aimed at keeping prosecutors from using certain evidence at trial.
Mr. Gagnon of Adrian, whose trial is scheduled to get under way April 21, is charged with five counts of aggravated vehicular homicide and two counts of aggravated vehicular assault.
A mother and four of her children were killed in the crash; two other members of the family were injured seriously.
Richard Sanders, Mr. Gagnon’s attorney, filed motions Thursday that, if granted, would:
•Keep prosecutors from using pictures of the deceased victims at the scene of the accident. Such photos “would only serve to inflame the passions of the jurors,” according to the motion.
•Suppress chemical tests of Mr. Gagnon’s blood and urine taken after the accident. Law enforcement officials did not administer the tests correctly, the motion contends.
•Suppress statements Mr. Gagnon made at the scene of the accident, and while he was being transported to St. Vincent Mercy Medical Center, and then to the county jail.
According to the motion, officers failed to advise the defendant of his Miranda rights.
•Require the prosecution to have any witnesses who will be identifying Mr. Gagnon in court also to identify him before the trial, using a lineup or photo array.
Jeff Lingo, a county assistant prosecutor, said he has not seen the motions, but plans to file a response.
He said all the motions, except the one requiring prior identification, are fairly routine.
“Asking that we provide a lineup would be an unusual request,” he said.
A hearing will be held April 3 for some of the motions, Mr. Lingo said.
Mr. Sanders could not be reached for comment.
Like the POS would even remember if he was read the Miranda rights when he was that plastered.
He appeared to know enough to deny a Breathalyzer at the scene, perhaps enough to damn him in the eyes of the jury alone.
And people wonder why Lawyers get a bad rap? I know he’s only doing his job, but that’s why I couldn’t make a living as a Lawyer, I would find it impossible to defend people I knew full and well were guilty as sin.
I never understood why 16 was the legal driving age. At 16 you are not capable of understanding that a vehicle is capable of doing when improperly used.
I see kids where I work whose parents let them drive solo at 14 and 15 years old. I, personally, don’t like the idea of sharing the road with a kid who can’t even be responsible for a cell phone.
The driving age should be raised and any juvenile charges involving alcohol or assault (because it infers a lack of self control) should play into when an individual is able to have full driving privileges.
It may keep some of these younger kids from underestimating the level of responsibility involved in operating a massive piece of steel at high speeds.
What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Michael Gagon was almost a decade older than the driving age.
I certainly hope they don’t raise the driving age around where I live. (I’m 22 and have been driving since 15 and a half.) I live out in the middle of nowhere, the kind of place where you have to drive for half an hour to buy a loaf of bread. You can’t survive without a car and driver’s license here.
It has everything to do with this topic. Raising the age and/or implementing delays when a teen has any charges levied against them would allow some control over who is behind the wheel. In addition, it would make the person earn the right to drive. Someone like Mr. Gagnon didn’t start driving drunk that fateful night; I would bet the farm he had done it dozens of times. It may not catch those who have already developed bad habits, but it may stop producing more idiots who think driving a car is an amusement ride.
I live in a rural area as well and have noticed that people drive even worse in small towns because they think “no one is around and I can do what I want”. Oh, and if the driving age was raised it would only affect those who haven’t gotten their licenses as of the date the new age went into effect. So you wouldn’t be made to give back your license.
I haven’t noticed people driving any worse in small towns than in big ones. I regularly commute to a fairly decent sized city.
I’m sure Michael Gagnon didn’t start driving drunk at 24, but there’s a good chance he didn’t drive drunk at 16, or whatever age he got his license, either.
It really bothers me that they are raising the age for kids to be able to do things like drive, have sex, get jobs, etc., but lowering the age at which they can be tried as an adult for any crimes they commit. I certainly hope the driving age stays 16 in Ohio or I pity the poor kids around here who will be stuck in Population 160 until they are legal adults.
3 little girls will not happily be looking for Easter baskets tomorrow morning or going to church in colorful dresses.
This is just SO WRONG!!!
I was in a court room while a friend was being sentenced for drunk driving. The judge told this person that statistics show the average person who is convicted of drunk driving has driven drunk 61 times before being caught. Since Gagnon was still functioning with a BAC that would have put the average person in a casket I’ll bet he was way above average in the number of times he had driven drunk. I hope and pray he never gets behind the wheel or has a chance to even take one drink again.
Who was it that said he was going to TacoBell for a fourth meal? So, you knew he was going to drive drunk and you let him.
You are more at fault than he is.
Something that has been going thru my mind is that while Danny says that his family was asleep before the crash, what about when he did that wild swerving to avoid the crash? I bet the swerving woke them all up. They did indeed feel themselves being murdered.
Juries and judges go online. Gagnon is going to be in prison for a long time.
Danny isn’t on here.
I’m not a member of the family.
All of this information is available to every American citizen through the freedom of information act.
Beau and Sydney woke up after the impact, but they were also survivors.
Bethany and Jordan were ejected from the vehicle and probably instantly killed. Haley was partially ejected. Lacie was dead on impact. Vadie suffered injuries that she would never recover from. She did wake up, but I hope the understanding of an 8 week old was mercifully short and hopefully less painful.
The following is available from the news.
Gagnon’s attorney is trying to suppress the evidence at the scene, prevent pictures of the victims from being brought in for the jury, requiring witnesses to identify Gagnon in a line up, and in general, trying to deny the jury the opportunity to truly see what Gagnon actually did.
If those motions fail, Gagnon’s case will be a matter of:
A. Was Gagnon impaired by Alcohol and/or any other drug, over and beyond the legal limit. (.08 for alcohol)
B. Was he driving the truck that killed Bethany, Haley, Lacie, Jordan and Vadie?
C. Was he driving the truck that critically injured Danny and Sydney?
As it stands, Gagnon’s plea of Not Guilty appears to be in denial of all three of the above.
Investigation of fatal I-280 crash leads to citations for Rodeo bar
By LAREN WEBER
BLADE STAFF WRITER
The owners of the Rodeo Bar & Grill in Oregon were cited yesterday for over-serving alcohol following an investigation into a drunken-driving crash on I-280 that killed five people, a spokesman with the Ohio Investigative Unit said.
The Rodeo Bar, 3150 Navarre Ave., was cited by the agency’s investigative unit for selling beer or intoxicating liquor to an intoxicated person, improper advertising, and encouraging excessive consumption of alcoholic beverages, which are all violations of its liquor license, spokesman Julie Hinds said.
She could not confirm the intoxicated person was Michael Gagnon, 24, of Adrian, who is accused of heading the wrong way on I-280 on Dec. 30, causing a crash that killed a mother and four children from a Maryland family.
But local authorities have previously said Mr. Gagnon was drinking at the bar before the crash, and an attorney for the bar owners confirmed that
yesterday.
The citations filed against the bar’s owners, Michael Yousif, 26, Johnathan Roumaya, 23, and Glenn Murdzia, 22, will be turned over to the Oregon city prosecutor for possible criminal charges, Ms. Hinds said.
Prosecutor Tom Dugan did not return phone calls seeking comment.
The business will also have a hearing before the Liquor Control Commission, which can issue fines, issue a suspension, or revoke their liquor license.
The three-month investigation into the Rodeo Bar began in early January after Toledo police requested the investigative unit “reconstruct the alcohol trail of an individual who was involved in a crash along I-280,” according to a news release.
The citation involving excessive consumption of alcoholic beverages refers to a state law that prohibits bars or other liquor establishments from serving alcoholic beverages for a discounted price after 9 p.m.
Improper advertising, as it pertains to state liquor laws, states that “no advertisements should condone or encourage excessive use of alcoholic beverages nor should any advertisements portray intoxication,” Ms. Hinds said.
Norman Abood, an attorney representing the bar owners, said he was surprised the investigative unit issued the citations.
He said he has spoken with several employees who were working at the Rodeo Bar the night of the crash who told him that Mr. Gagnon didn’t show any obvious signs of intoxication.
“He wasn’t slurring his speech or knocking over his drink,” Mr. Abood said. “He was a good, orderly patron. There was no indication from any employees that he was acting in any untoward way.”
Therefore, Mr. Abood said there wouldn’t have been any reason for bartenders or waiters to stop serving Mr. Gagnon.
Despite that, Mr. Abood said those involved agree the crash was tragic.
“Everybody wishes it could be undone,” he said.
Authorities searched the bar in January for videotapes, receipts, bar tabs, financial records, and employee records as part of the crash investigation.
While there, they also found steroids and syringes in a filing cabinet.
The items found were listed as a blister pack containing nine tablets of Clenbuterol, a bottle with liquid Clenbuterol, several vials of the human growth hormone Jintropin, and a bag of syringes and more human growth hormone. Clenbuterol is a steroid used in meat production that is banned in the United States.
Mr. Roumaya admitted the steroids were his. He pleaded no contest and was found guilty last month in Oregon Municipal Court of a misdemeanor charge of possession of dangerous drugs. He is scheduled to be sentenced April 14.
The family in the van was returning to the Baltimore area after visiting relatives near Detroit when the crash occurred.
Bethany Griffin, 36; Jordan Griffin, 10; Lacie Burkman, 7; Haley Burkman, 10, and Vadie Griffin, 8 weeks, were killed. The driver of the van, Danny Griffin, Jr., 36, and his daughter, Sydney Griffin, 8, were seriously hurt. Another passenger, Beau Burkman, 8, had minor injuries.
Mr. Gagnon, who pleaded not guilty in Lucas County Common Pleas Court to five counts of aggravated vehicular homicide and two counts of aggravated vehicular assault, will be tried April 21.
He is in the county jail in lieu of a $1.75 million bond and faces up to 50 years in prison if convicted on all charges. He was in court yesterday for a motion hearing but the hearing was continued.
50 years is not long enough of a sentence for what this man has done…
…but that is how the legal system operates in Ohio — they just don’t get it.
Amazing!! Bartenders and waitresses couldn’t tell he was drunk but a couple of workers at Taco Bell knew??!! Sounds like a cover up to me!!
First of all… I love you Jason. You write my thoughts so well… where anger blurs my ability to type what I intend.
Secondly, do we all make mistakes? Sure as hell we do. I know I do. With that being said, do I point a gun at someones head and pull the trigger and hope for the best? Nope. Do I plunge a knife into someones chest and think, they shouldn’t have been there? Not likely. And, I DO NOT, nor have I ever driven a 2 ton weapon down the street while impaired! The argument that “you’ve all done it” is bullsh*t.
Accident my ass. He f*cked up. And what he deserves is to know the pain of losing a wife and children to another POS. However, I would never wish that to an innocent (meaning children and their mother… certainly not him)….but I do wish that feeling upon him.
If he was such a “nice person” and “great friend”…then he should’ve sucked it up and pled GUILTY as charged…and taken his punishment like man. Not cower away and hope for the best and worry what people where thinking of him.
Some of the nicest people in the world commit murder. Serial killers are charming and friendly. I just don’t get where the argument of him being “nice” comes into play here in any way shape or form.
Nice….but an f*ckin idiot. Ok… I’ll accept that.
As impossible as it sounds, I’ve only just recently heard of this case. But since learning about it, I haven’t been able to think about anything else. I cannot begin to imagine the grief and despair the Griffin/Burkman family is enduring. They have my deepest condolences and I pray that God continues to provide peace and some measure of solace.
I can’t help but continually put myself in the place of Gagnon’s mom. I have two sons myself and have often wondered how I would deal if either of my son’s made a horrible and deadly choice. What would I do?
Nothing in the world could make me stop loving them, that’s for sure. They are, after all, an extension of myself. My very reason for being on this Earth is to be their mother. So what would I do if I were faced with such a nightmare? The first thing I would be would be to tell my son I love him and that nothing will ever change that. Then, as much as it would break my heart, I would tell him that he has a responsibility to own up to his choices. I would tell him he needs to plead guilty, express his *GENUINE* remorse, and plead for mercy from the court. If the court shows him no mercy, that’s the least of the consequences of his choices.
I would encourage him to use his time in prison to *try* to repent for the things he’d done. Nothing would be able to undo the damage he’d done, but to sit in prison filing appeals and bemoaning a fate made of his own hand? No. I would expect him to try to make a positive difference, even from his prison cell.
Now let’s talk about my feelings as the mother for a minute. My son has committed a horrific, unspeakable crime. He’s killed half a family in a matter of moments because of a horrible and completely avoidable choice. I would be crushed. I would be grieving for the victims and for my son. Because after all, I would be faced with watching my son lose the life he could have built. Should have built, were it not for the choices he made. I would grieve probably as one would grieve a death. But I would be painfully aware that, at the very least, my son was still alive.
Then I would have to turn deep and probing eye into my own life, my role as a mother, as a responsible adult, and ask myself what mistakes might I have made to lead to such a tragedy? Was I the kind of role model my sons needed to see? Did I model appropriate behavior? Provide them with positive male role models? Did I do enough to instill a sense of personal responsibility in them? Did I teach them the value of life? Did I teach them empathy? Self-control? Common sense? Did I turn a blind eye to warning signs that my son might be turning down a dark and deadly path? Did I do everything I could to prevent this?
Introspection alone is useless, however. I would need to put forth positive action. I would join M.A.D.D. and make it my mission for life to ensure that no one else’s son or daughter ever made the choices my son made. And I believe I would keep pictures of the crash scene visible so I would never forget why this matters so much.
I’m sure in the family’s public statement they didn’t *mean* to sound callous when they said that the lives of the children didn’t make much of an impact outside of their immediate family. But it was callous, and thoughtless, and only served to further demonstrate that this family hasn’t really learned anything of value from this experience.
I for one have been deeply impacted by these children and their mother–I’m neither immediate family or a friend. But I’m moved by this tragedy all the same. And it makes me even more aware of the awesome responsibility of parenting and raising responsible adults. I don’t want my children to ever be the cause of such horrible pain.
I see from the replies from “Mother” that she’s been here recently. And sadly, it appears that she still hasn’t gained any perspective. I can understand the mama bear mentality, protecting her cub at all costs. But these aren’t the words or actions of a loving mother.
Jason, I’ve been struck by the intelligence and poignance of your posts. You are a shining example of using your pain in a positive way. I hope the wounds are healing and you are able to find some peace. How is the family doing now? What is the latest on the case?
Mother, Ashley, Anonymous, etcetera…please read what I wrote and take it to heart. Please don’t come back with the same tired cliches and poor defenses. Think about what I’ve said rather than blindly defending the indefensible. Please don’t compound this tragedy any further by learning absolutely nothing.
Danny is an amazing human being, I’ll leave it at that. I speak with Him and Angella, Danny’s sister on a weekly if not daily basis(for Angella) just to check on them. Sydney is recovering still, Beau and Brett are much less in my sphere of knowledge but I hear healing has started for Beau at least.
Jack; Haley, Lacie, Beau and Brett’s father has made a post on this and other places. I must admit that I had little respect for him before, and now see I have wronged him. He’s a capable powerful father in his children’s lives.
Others are coping in their own ways.
Bethany is in the minds of everyone who still expects a text message or phone call.
One of the owners of the Rodeo Bar and Grill pleaded no contest last month to possessing human growth hormone.
This all stems from a wrong way crash on I-280 back in December that resulted in the death of a family of five.
Michael Gagnon reportedly left the Rodeo Bar and Grill, then drove the wrong way on I-280 slamming head on into a mini van. That accident resulted in a search of the bar where investigators found human growth hormone.
An attorney for Jon Roumaya said he was trying to lose weight, so he used the steroid. When it didn’t work, he threw it into a junk drawer in the bar and forgot about it.
On Monday, April 14, the judge sentenced Roumaya to three days in jail, seven days of electric monitoring, 50-hours of community service and random steroid drug testing.
Roumaya is one of three owners of the Rodeo Bar and Grill.
In a related case, the state handed out citations to the owners a few weeks ago for serving an intoxicated person in relation to the I-280 crash. Attorneys said they are denying the accuracy of the allegations.
– A toothbrush would know you don’t lose weight taking steriods. What a lame defense!
Have the people who want to commit this man to hell drink and drive themselves and have been fortante enough not to have gods will but on them in a negative way- oops when you mess up its free will and when you do good its Gods will – maybe next time you have a drink your better walk, you never know what God may have plaaned for you and if he has this same fate planned for you, then thats sure a caring loving God you worship, the same one who teches forgiveness, oops again you can forgive and still punish this young man for the rest of your life. Maybe next time your stand almighty and high on your soap box your ass will fall off and I hope you say to yourself ” MY FREE WILL AND I HOPE I GO TO HELL”
We are responsible for our actions, why can’t you let Michael be responsible for his?
God didn’t make Lot’s wife turn around.
God didn’t make Michael Gagnon drink, shoot and/or smoke his way into oblivion and then kill Bethany and the girls. If God had wanted Bethany dead, he has far more subtle methods than the sins of one stupid, stupid man.
Stop trying to defend this man. Let him find his justice first in the courts and then to whatever follows him after the darkness. For now, burning him in effigy helps to raise awareness (at the very least in the Gagnon household) and may stop another drunk driver from killing someone else.
If you remember and I am sure you have read the bible more than me – but which version are you redaing the bible has been writen and re-wriiten when all you God preaching fools realize the standard written in word effect yourself and you cannot handle it – such as the eye for an eye part!!!!! so when you miss up maybe you can switch to another version to fit your needs and avoid God wrath – I personaly do not know if a God exixts or not, but dam glad its being removed from the court and school, we all may not agree on your version and God forbid the one your do not live by is used to punish your mistakes
I too am very fond of the secular aspect of our legal and political system and would prefer it to remain more so than it is now, but my intention when bringing up Lot’s wife was to actually counteract a religious argument or rather the pseudo-religious one you made.
As to God preaching fools, I prefer to think of what I do as God seeking, and to the foolery of that pursuit, I entrust that I am not stepping on your own toes.
As to courts, Gagnon was beyond the legal limit, drove a vehicle the wrong way on the interstate, killed 5 people and critically injured 2 others. He then plead not guilty.
*sarcasm begins*
“God Forbid” anyone get angry about that.
“God Forbid” anyone blame him for killing people.
“God Forbid” anyone point out the “mistakes” he made so that they can prevent someone else from making those choices.
“God Forbid” anyone hope that there’s a punishment that fits this(these) crime(s), in the next life if not in this one.
Mr. William Harrigan. You, sir, are a complete moron. Please refrain from posting anything on the internet ever again. You are a gross testament to the failing ability of the average American male to communicate in any form other than grunting.
I would recommend that you sink back into your trailer and continue to attempt to gnaw on your own elbow or whatever else it is that you window-licking invertebrates do with your time. But for the love of “god” shut your fucking mouth.
Pantalones–That is too funny!
How true.
Well said.
I’m not even sure what argument william is attempting to make here. There’s not a lucid point anywhere. But I can say with certainty that my opinion on the matter has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with personal responsibility…something Michael and apparently, the entire Gagnon clan, sorely lacks. It boggles my mind to see that people continue to defend him.
Michael Gagnon trial rescheduled for June 23
More On WTOL.com
5 dead in traffic accident; man charged
On Monday, the case was continued for a Michigan man accused of driving drunk and killing a mother and four children. Police say he was drunk, and drove the wrong way down I-280 crashing head-on into a minvan.
The original trial date for Michael Gagnon was set for Monday, April 21. That date has been rescheduled.
Gagnon appeared in court on Monday, April 21 for a pre-trial hearing. He has another pre-trial hearing scheduled for May 9. The trial is now scheduled to begin June 23.
Michael Gagnon is charged with aggravated vehicular homicide and aggravated vehicular assault.
Does Your God judge people whom live in a trailer differently, apparently most you people do and make alot of assumptions with your narraw minded opions based on your religion! Gagon clan thats funny, in fact you religious people are a clan that have murdered, killed and rape all in the name of religion (YOUR RELIGION) refrain from posting anything further is the typicial response from your religious nut jobs who do not like a point of view from a christioan who does not just preach, but also lives in the real world and cares about his fellow man – you interupt what I say as let the man go based on your belief he should burn in hell – well guess what there should be something in between going free and burning in hell – Maybe with your beliefs the next time your childs eats a grape at the store thier fingers should be chopped off!!! You interupt a difference of opion as me not having any feelings for the familys of the ones they lost – you narrow minded biggots are not religious at all – you simply out for revenge – And one last point I know nothing about either family – I am a christian not a clan member unlike you, If you want the system to take care of this or your religion make a choice you can’t have both
I’ve never interrupted you. I’ve interpreted what you’ve said, which is a function of reading comprehension. This cognitive capacity to reason through the cipher of mud you use to try and admonish me and others, unfortunately fails me as I attempt to muddle my way through the misspellings, phonetic abstractions, and failures on your own part to interpret my meaning or the meaning of others who’ve tried to coddle your failings with a response.
Please, for the love of English as the only language you actually might be capable of speaking, install Mozilla Firefox, make sure Spell Check is enabled, and when you see a red underline, correct the spelling of the word before sending. As a second tip, please read more. Carve thirty minutes out of your day to read something that appeals to you and has a reading level close to or above your typical fare. It will help you to communicate more clearly, will increase your vocabulary and will actually (and this is not a lie) help to raise your IQ.
I thought I told you to shut the fuck up. Yet, here you are, babbling into the ether with this horse shit. Christian, clan member, who gives a shit. You’ve missed the point of this site entirely and should do us all a favor and fuck off.
I too care about my fellow man. I care enough to know that people like you are the real problem with this society. Ignorant, unrealistic, selective, asinine generalizations that people like you spit out are in fact now the lowest common denominator. There’s a large division in this country between people that approach things rationally and those who approach it with both their heads and a bible stuffed up their ass. Unfortunately for those of us who didn’t flush our ability to think, rationalize and interpret reality for the sake of faith, blindness and zealotry we’re left to shake our heads in disgust as you pack animals piss all over any logical decision in any situation. People like you should be shot on site. Heaven or hell, neither exist in my eyes, you don’t deserve air. Pipe down and go away you fucking clown.
MUST BE NICE TO BE A PERFECT PERSON – WHO CAN TYPE BIG WORDS , SORRY BUDDY BUT YOU BIG WORDS FIX NOTHING AND BRING NO BODY BACK, NOR PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING AGAIN – MAYBE IF YOU DIRECTED YOUR ANGER TO FIXING AN ISSUE OF SOCIETY, WHICH YOU ARE A PART OF THEN YOU COULD DO SOME GOOD IN YOUR LIFE AND STOP JUDGING EVERYONE ELSE WHILE SPEAKING AS THE LOSTEST FORM OF LIFE – SO HAVE A GREAT LIFE YOURSELF – YOUR TRULLY ARE IN YOUR OWN HELL NOW I CAN SEE – OVER AND OUT THIS SITE IS A WASTE CREATED BY ANGERY, PERFECT PEOPLE
Bill, I am taken aback by that comment.
My behavior specialist approved this site.
Discussion over. LMAO that’s hilarious.
Perfect?
No, not perfect, but literate. I don’t need to drive drunk or high, and then kill people with a truck to understand that drunk drivers should be stopped. I don’t need to participate in cat killing or dog fighting to know that’s not such a good idea. I don’t need to have bad grammar to think that fixing it is an important step in defeating functional illiteracy.
If you, yourself have been driving drunk, and feel you can defend it as well as defend the taking of 5 lives, please feel free to share your opinions, but I must stress to you, I know these are just words. I know that what I say doesn’t even bother you all that much, but it does tickle a little, doesn’t it? It does sting just a little behind the eyes when someone points out your faults, and shows them to you, doesn’t it?
Why do you think it’s so much easier to make an argument stick when the words are spelled correctly, the grammar is mostly in the right place, and the concepts are clearly put together, one after the other in a logical pattern? Do you suppose it’s because communication, like every other skill worth having takes a bit of work to achieve?
Sharpen your mind, get your thoughts organized, use that spell checker I mentioned, and then come and take another swing at this. If you’re still willing to advocate on behalf of a drunk driver that killed 5 people because he couldn’t take care of his responsibilities, then come at it with words that explain your position clearly and correctly.
Good luck in life.
Doing my part in fixing society would begin with making sure no one in your blood line is allowed to breed ever again.
Abortions, Bill, they’re your friend.
I suppose since William is “over and out” he will never learn that the word “clan” in my above post has nothing to do with being a “Klan” member. The definition of a clan is “a group of people related by blood or marriage; kin.” i.e., Sam, Clara and assorted other family members.
If William takes offense to my postings I’m fine with that but at least make sure you understand me before going “awf!”
I also have to address this religious aspect that keeps being dragged into this conversation. Namely the “judge not lest ye be judged” argument that people LOVE to throw in as a defense for every disgusting atrocity. I’ve yet to see one person who can quote the next verse. “For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged… and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” John 7:24 tells us to judge but to do so righteously by using the Word to discern what constitutes sin.
We can, and as moral and ethical persons, SHOULD, judge Gagnon’s CHOICE. Not him personally, but the CHOICE he made. Most of the people here can see that difference. Obviously there’s a few here who don’t.
PantalonesDeDois – your impressive with your words, however you have lost your way on this site. You do not give a shit about what happened, your only concerned with impressing people with your grammar and attacking people. Not on thing you say has anything to do with the lose of life. Its to build you already Big Ego of yourself. Although we have differences in opion, its clear I a stranger have more concerned for the people who lost thier life then yourself – so spout off about shit that has nothing to do with this case and build your own Ego. Fixing Society! your right you cannot and your narrow minded and foul mouth isn’t going to fix this sad situation either. Atleast maybe you can do something constructive to try and fix the drinking and driving issue or set back on your fat college educated ass and bitch about it and how everything is wrong in your freaking world, the legal system which you live in – DO SOMETHING TO FIX IT RATHER THEN USE TO FOUL EDUCATED, YET NARROW MIND TO SPOUT OFF ABOUT EVERYTHING OTHER THEN THE ISSUE – SAD YOU CAN LAUGH IF YOUR SO GOD DAM CONCERNED BY THIS SITUATION
My attacks weren’t on the case itself as I feel this piece of shit is a pathetic coward for not even owning up to slaughtering these people due to his lack of self control.
I’ve not set out to impress anyone. My only comment towards you is that you are a blatant fucking idiot and should shut the fuck off. Sadly, my words aren’t big, my grammar not precise and my comments not anywhere what I would consider to be the pinnacle of intellectual. That just moves to my point, you’re a fucking moron and have no business trying to do anything but drool. In fact, I’m not even sure where to go with the rest of your post as, well, I don’t speak “dumbfuck”. You’ve made a large list of ignorant assumptions directed towards topics I never engaged in.
Let me lay it out for you one more time. You are someone I consider to be a waste of air. My only chime in this long list of shit was to tell you to close your mouth as it is better to be thought a fool rather than open your mouth and prove it. Your long list of assbackwards stupidity move to prove that well enough and I know that I am not wrong. The situation doesn’t concern me, you concern me. I would address the fact that you don’t need to breed but as you are more than likely inbred it’s genetically impossible. So I’ll leave you with another strong suggestion of shutting the fuck up.
Hi, I’m a writer from Ridgefield, Washington who has been watching this story from the sidelines ever since I first heard about it over the New Year. It was such a shocking and disturbing story when I first read it, it took me a while to accept that it was real. Now I’m following the trial because I think this case will prove to be a significant statement of how our justice system treats drunk driving. This will be my only post because I think I may get too emotional to think clearly if I do more than that. I just have a few thoughts related to the phrase we hear at least once for every DUI-related death: “He/she didn’t mean to kill them.” I think someone said it best when they said, “It’s like firing a gun randomly in a crowded shopping mall, then acting shocked when someone gets hit by a bullet.” Here are some thoughts about what happened that night:
1. Michael Gagnon’s first crime that night was gluttony. In medieval theology gluttony was consider a deadly sin – literally, in this case. We’ve all committed gluttony at one time or another, I’m sure, but we need to start with this sin as the first domino that fell, resulting in this tragedy.
2. I am convinced that when Michael got in his truck and sat there in the cold, dark, silence, fumbling about for his keys, there was a thunderous roar in his soul, in his conscience, in his mind, that said DO NOT DO THIS, YOU KNOW BETTER. This thunderous roar was, I’m sure, drowned out by the blunting effects of alcohol. But there was a moment at which Michael made the fatal mistake of ignoring the voice of his conscience.
3. When he decided – and it was a decision, impaired or not – to turn the key and ignite the enginge, in that very moment he became a murderer. The ignition key became his trigger.
4. The rest is statistics playing itself out. Someone in his condition, while driving, will kill someone.
I have to conclude that anyone who gets behind the wheel as drunk as he was does mean to kill people even if they don’t “mean to.”
I hope Michael takes responsibility for his actions and i hope he devotes the rest of his life educating young people about the connections between personal resposibility, gluttony, recklessness, drunkenness, and murder (intentional and unintentional).
I meant engine, not “enginge”. Sorry.
By the way, everyone chill a li’l about GRAMMAR. (I’m not talking about you, Another Mother, but other people on the site.) This is a blog, not a symposium. I have a master’s degree, magna cum laude, from Duke University, not to mention I have a perfect 800 verbal score on my SAT and I get paid to write. So if you want to talk smack about grammar, I will “drink your milkshake.” This blog is for everyone. It’s meant for people to express their hearts and minds, not post a doctoral thesis. Got good grammar? Great, peel yourself a gold star sticker. But use it to serve people, not intimidate them. No more talk about bad grammar. Let’s all write as sloppy as we want!
LOL Observer! Now that is TOO funny! Please tell me, since I’m not well-versed in porn, are those all real titles? If so, my husband is going to be so impressed with my newfound knowledge!
Porn titles aside(I hope the admin deletes them on your behalf), carefully consider the posts that receive the “grammar hammer.” “william harrigan” writes a stream of conscious series of phonetic ideas, lacking anything approaching a cohesive statement. This is a place to communicate, and English language is a prerequisite.
Your observations actually make sense, misspelling or not…no apologies necessary. And for what it’s worth, I think you’re absolutely right.
Holy Crap! I did NOT mean to attach that!!!!!!!!!! That’s a message my brother and I were passing back and forth. LOL!!! well, enjoy. Teaches me a lesson for saying I wouldn’t post, then posting anyway. Oh, man. Talk about bad grammar! I am so sorry. Goodbye everyone.
No, Another Mother, they’re not real titles. I’ve never actually seen a porn movie. My little brother and I are film buffs and we just started rattling these off rapid-fire in a moment of immaturity. This is the most embarrasing moment of my life!
Especially embarrassing after bragging about what a scholar I am.
Jason, I went back and looked at some of the harrigan files and I see what you mean now. I can understand Borat much easier. In his defense, however, he may be under 8 years old, or English might not be his first or second language. If not, I hope he challenges himself to read and write or the poor guy might have to live off of nuts and berries for a while. It can be done, but he needs a tutor, and maybe not so many people making fun of him, though I can hardly help it myself. Harrigan, all joking aside, I do think it would be a good thing for you to improve your English, and it will help you feel more confident in presenting and forming your ideas.
He makes for you capslock time, very good yes?
Gagnon found guilty
Friday, May 09, 2008 | 10:33 AM
Judge finds Gagnon guilty after change of plea
Today in court, Michael Gagnon changed his plea from not guilty to no contest in connection with charges filed in a wrong-way crash on I-280 that killed four children and one adult.
After the change of plea, a judge found him guilty of all charges. Sentencing is set for June 27.
13abc.com: Gagnon pleads no contest 5/09/08
Thank God he’s been found guilty. Let us pray the judge issues a proper sentence.
Thank you for cross posting Jen
Your welcome.
I transported a man to a detox center a few days ago. He had a BAC of a whopping .383! He was still fully conscious, he knew where he was and he even pointed out the door to the center. His speech was very slurred, but he was still talking in complete sentences. He was able to walk, or stagger, on his own.
Now Michael Gagnon had a BAC well under a full percentage point lower than this man.
Why do I bring this up? There is no way a man with Gagnon’s BAC, high though it was, could NOT know he was driving the wrong way, especially at night when the bright lights of cars were swerving every which way to avoid him. Witnesses also claim that they saw Gagnon swerving to avoid vehicles, so he was fully aware he was driving the wrong way. He also was aware enough to know what he wanted at the local Taco bell.
We all know that some drunks get violently angry when they drink. I believe Gagnon was in a furious, uncontrolled rage, when he drove that night. Realizing he made the wrong turn onto the freeway made him even more angry. He probably thought, as he was driving in a “get outta my way” taking revenge on the world kind of way, that it was the fault of all the other drivers that they weren’t pulling off the side of the road to accomodate him. When someone smashed into his truck he was even more livid, as paramedics have testified. He was furious that someone who didn’t have the sense to pull over wrecked his truck. He then bitched out the paramedics and who knows who else for everything that happened. He was obviously in a state of drunken anger.
If I were the prosecuting attorney I would charge Michael Gagnon with five counts of intentional homicide.
What do you think?
June 27 is the day that POS fate is called. I predict he will get over 30 years.
Glad to see that bar that apparently overserved Mr. Gagnon has closed.
Sorry to spam, but 43 years
So he was a smug little fuck til the end. On the news they say he is surprised that he got such a long term. What? In reality he should have got the death sentence instead of tax payers keeping him alive. 43 years with no parole?. That probably is worse than death.
Pathetic.
You know, that means he’ll be walking the streets again in his 60′s.
Unless, you know, something happens inside the slammer.
43 years, good riddance. Only sad part about this besides the loss of life… it won’t stop other drunks. BUt it stopped this one
Mr. observer, try to drink yourself to BAC 0.383 and make someone to record it on video before you share your invaluable observations with us. Believe me, situation you descirbe is very extraordinary. Probably this person had crank in his blood too…Alcohol acts differently for different kind of people. It all depends on your metabolism. Besides he was smoking pot too.
43 years sounds like a life to me. No one deserves such a sentence, especially a person who has not done it intentionally. He is living in his personal hell now anyway.
Those ignorant people who call themselves Christians while condemning this guy to hell should probably recall what JC said about forgiveness…
Ya know Alex, I normally don’t get personal when I reply to someone I disagree with, but in your case I’m going to make a rare exception, you fucking idiot. He killed FIVE people. I’m a recovering drug addict, and believe me I have compassion for the guy, but he has to suffer the consequences of his actions, the same as everybody else. As for the Poll we take here, do you honestly think the majority of people who vote are actually damning this guy to hell? Haven’t you picked up on the general tone of this blog yet? I’ll give you some help. Goggle sarcasm and maybe satire too and you’ll figure it out.
And remember, Jesus saves, but Esposito always scored on the rebound….
Max
illl tell ya this if he dont go to hell ill certainly give him hell on earth cuz that piece of shit took aeway my family n when he gets out ill make sure he gets a warm welcoming from my axe the fucking cocksucker should’ve gotten off so i can take care of him myself, but he can spend his 40some years in prison having his asshole expanded
it’s hard to say if this guy deserves “hell” (whatever that is) or not. he did something that could happen to alot of people. but if you’re that drunk, you cant drive, period. no excuses. his friends and family who were with him at the bar should be held accountable. my heart goes out to the familes and friends of the lost children/mother. i cant really feel bad for the family and friends of the killer because of the damage hes done. but the only thing we can do is to live and learn and pray for the family of the lost ones. it sounds like most people on here who are posting are wacked which is pretty scary in itself.
I had a feeling that since the judge was a woman that the sentence would be a fair one. A woman knows more about the preciousness of life IMO. A male judge probably would have given POS 15 years or something ridiculous like that.
POS is white. Whites are hated by the blacks in prisons. Read this for anyone wondering what is ahead for this child murderer.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/voices.html
hes a pretty boy it seems so chances are hes in a LOT of trouble when he gets into prison. oh well…again you make your bed, you sleep in it.
Why is it ok to have crimes committed against him while he is in prison? Seems a bit hypocritical to me. Sexual asault is still considered a crime. Is it only right to commit the crimes that YOU think are acceptable?
Sorry but I do not agree that he deserves to go to hell and I do not believe that a 43 year prison sentence is a just verdict. This man made a huge mistake that millions of people do every single year unfortunately. I believe he definitely deserves jail time but 43 years for a 24 year old is basically a life sentence and a lot of child molesters and other violent criminals don’t get that stiff of a sentence.
I don’t believe he intentionally wanted to kill people, even though you run that risk when you drink and drive. It was a fatal and costly mistake. I would think that 5 years would be a more appropriate sentence.
How are you related? Are you another friend of the family?
As to how stiff the penalty is, let’s ask Bethany if she’s willing to let the man get a lighter sentence for killing her daughters?
That’s right, we can’t ask her, her sentence was a Death sentence, much longer than Life, let alone 43 years. As I’ve said in the past here, my intention is to raise the penalty for DUI Manslaughter to the same as 1st degree premeditated murder. He should have gotten the death penalty.
He looks a lot different in court than he does in the picture above:
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/misc?url=/templates/zoom.pbs&Site=TO&Date=20080627&Category=NEWS02&ArtNo=233347443&Ref=AR
Why did he shave his head in the first place?
Was it to avoid the state using his own hair in a drug test if they ever managed to get the blood drawn by the State Police thrown out?
Michael probably could have gotten 20 years or less by pleading guilty early on and accepting full responsibility for his crimes. He plead No Contest, a technical plea that judges hate, because it does not show an acceptance of guilt, but rather looks for a technical way to avoid prosecution and sentencing–it rarely ever works.
lanie??? wtf is wrong with you??
5 years???
he killed multiple people!!!
intentional or not, it was done!
if he killed your family would you want him walking around in 5 years, probably still drinking and probably driving!
you have no respect for the family of the vicitims to say that!
he got what he deserved!
he gave a life sentence to those innocent people who were driving hime.
millions of people drive around with a 3x the legal limit and high?
what planet are u living on?
people drink and drive all the time but not with a 3x legal limit and on weed!
i hope you’re just a kid, cuz if you’re over 18 and can vote in this country, thats very sad
let me go get drunk and kill your family and then in 5 years be partying it up while you’re lonely and grieving!
how would you like that
wtf is wrong with this country that we have such idiots living here?!!??
Ain’t these folks something else john? Did you read that asshole Alex’s post? It’s the same kind of bleeding heart chicken-shit. I think both of them are some weird kind of sociopath: no empathy for the survivors or compassion for the victims. The whole incident is just an excuse to blah-blah-blah their worthless views, or in Alex’s case, to preach a little phony-baloney pseudo Christianity.
Hey Alex, I got your forgiveness right here! (In my best NYC accent)
John,
No. I am not a kid. I am an adult and I do not drink at all, nor do I do drugs.. In fact, I hate alcohol. What I meant was the fact that people drink and drive all the time.. and it’s unfortunate that people still do in this day and age. Like I said, I definitely think he deserves some jail time but 43 years with no chance of parole?
If it was my family that he killed – I would be extremely upset with him. I read his statements and he seemed remorseful and heartfelt.. I would not want to compound the tragedy that happened that day by ruining another life. What if Michael was your son/brother/uncle/relative? Would you feel the same way?
Like I said, it was a HORRIBLE mistake, he didn’t intentionally murder or kill anyone. And I am definitely not a “liberal”. I just think this is such a waste of life to throw him in jail for the rest of his life.
If Mike was my brother Lanie, I’d be there for him, support him, write him, phone him, visit him, put money in his commissary account, and pick him up at the prison in when he was released in 43 years. Like I said, you seem to be incapable of having any empathy with the survivors of Mike’s “munchie run” . There’s an important connection missing in your brain, and you should be very concerned. I could see you on the shore of a lake, watching some drunk drown his wife in a fit of rage, and just stand there saying “well isn’t that terrible. I hope the police don’t compound the tradgedy by putting the man in jail. How will he earn a living?” Yep, you’re either a screwed up sociopath or a certified moron.
I agree Max. I get that Mike’s friends and family will stand behind him, they love him and do not want him to suffer, that’s natural. But these people who are not personal friends or family boggle my mind when they side with this guy or say things like it was just a tragic accident.. all I can figure is they themselves drive drunk , or have driven drunk. I just don’t get them.
so, let me get this straight… just because it happens all the time it means that this MURDERER shouldnt have a harsh sentence? are u effing kidding me?the reason u have this bland attitude about it is because they need to deal harsher with ALL the people that do drink, drive and kill. let us know what you really think when one of ur family members are killed by a drinking n driving moron
Seriously Lanie? If he killed your family you’d be ‘extremely upset with him’??? but 5yrs in jail would be punishment enough?? You and your family must be very close.
Drinking and driving is not a mistake, its’ a CRIME and because his CRIME resulted in 5 deaths he is going to jail for 43 years…thank goodness. If nothing else it will keep him off the road and this one drunk driver will not have the chance to reoffend in a couple of years.
i agree with all of the last posts, obviously except for lanie. i laughed and frowned at the same time when i read that she’d be “extremely upset”!!! wtf is that….if he killed your entire family you’d be “upset” but you wouldnt mind in 5 years that hes out, probably doing the same stuff again. i hate to be rude but you sound extremely IGNORANT and inconsiderate for all of the people he killed. you say it wasnt intentional, but getting behind the wheel with a 3 time legal limit smoking weed, then driving the wrong way down a highway probably speeding is pretty much intentional. i am not even going to acknowledge your posts anymore because im beginning to think that you’re like a family member of this clown and defending him. if you’re not, then you’re plain nuts and your posts make no sense.
“extremely upset” lol
and we wonder why this country is so wacked!
i feel bad for your family that you think so little of them.
I am definitely NOT ignorant nor do I not sympathize with the victims in this case. Seeing their little car seats in that picture makes me sick to my stomach and seeing their pictures, especially the children’s, makes me saddened.
If some guy was drunk and murdered his wife – that is not comparable to this crime. What he did was against the law – absolutely no doubt about it, but like I said — wasting another person’s life does not bring these people back.
I have compassion for all people involved, including Michael Gagnon. If you people want to be hateful to me because I believe this kid is redeemable — go ahead and knock yourselves out, if that what makes you feel better.
I stand by my statements that I made. If they have angered some people, so be it.
I watched the trial of Bobby Cutts, Jr who murdered an innocent woman who was 9 months pregnant, Jessie Davis.. and Jessie Davis’ mother said in her victim’s impact statement that she wished the Cutts would have a chance to be paroled, so he could be a father to his children. I do NOT agree with him at all since he intentionally killed someone, but that’s what compassion and forgiveness is about.
You people keep wallowing in your hate – I won’t be checking back on this board – but I think it’s funny that for people to accuse me of being inconsiderate are the ones who are posting their venom towards me and Gagnon.
You never did answer how you knew or were related to Michael Gagnon? Do you live in the same town?
No, I am not family or friends of Michael Gagnon. I live in another state–in Texas and I had never even heard of this case until I saw it on a message board, then I went to google up more information and came across this site.. I’ve been on here many times before but didn’t notice this case.
I don’t know Gagnon, never met him and never will meet him.
Do you know anything about the actual case?
Do you know he drove the wrong direction on the highway in excess of 60mph, after passing a minimum 4 vehicles who managed to call 911?
Did you know he was belligerent at the scene, refused a sobriety test, plead not guilty to the crime to begin with and changed his plea to “No Contest” a technical plea, only after he discovered no brokered convention or lessening of his sentence would be provided?
He was three times the legal limit of Alcohol, and 4 times the impaired level of marijuana use. He had fled a Taco Bell, where an employee named Jacob tried to keep him from heading out on the road. His speedy “mistake” down the wrong ramp past a half dozen signs that said wrong way was probably in part due to his need to swiftly escape justice.
Gagnon has never admitted to the public or in court to actually doing wrong. If you gave him merely 5 years, like most DUI murderers, he probably would be convicted of another DUI within months of his release.
Taking him out of circulation for 43 years ends that cycle of death and destruction. As Brett, one of Bethany’s two surviving sons said so aptly above, his imprisonment protects him from the justice the survivors of this tragedy so needfully want to occur. His 43 years are for his punishment, his protection, and more importantly the protection of everyone else he is so likely to endanger.
Bethany, Vadie, Lacie, Haley and Jordan mean nothing to you, as you stated in your post above: “…nor do I not sympathize with the victims in this case.”
You don’t care that Sydney and Danny almost joined Bethany and her daughters. Perhaps you’d raise your sentence to merely 7 years if they’d lost their lives? Another year if Beau had also been killed?
You equate drunk driving with a mistake, I equate it to loading a gun and firing bullets across the horizon. In all likelihood they will miss anyone and everyone, but in the rare chance that they struck someone, the person who fired the gun should be held accountable for using lethal force in an indiscriminate and careless manner. You think of this as a “mistake,” an “accident,” but you ignore the far more telling evaluation that it is not an accident when the likely circumstances and eventualities of an action are known to be harmful–it is the very reason we take precautions to ward off undesired effects.
This is not accidental, this is not a mistake of circumstance, this was irresponsible behavior that resulted in “only” 5 of the worst consequences possible and 2 consequences with similar difficulties.
In short, it was a shot in the dark with the understanding that the consequences be damned.
Bobby Cutts is a dumb-ass. His tears were so fake and he tried to have everyone believe his elbow knocked her unconscious as he was fighting her whilst en route to the front door. Come on. I do feel for his son. He has a dad behind bars and a mom six feet.
Bobby Cutts killed his own unborn daughter, he has no right to be a father now or after he is paroled he lost that right. And those kids will be far better off without that murderer in thier lives. That’s not compasion that’s just stupid to think he deserves to be a father when he killed his own child.
I absolutely agree with you and I do not think that man should EVER walk free and I don’t think he will ever. Thank god.
I was using hims as an example because the mother of his victim — for some reason — had compassion for him and forgave him. She is a better person than I am because I wouldn’t be able to forgive someone who INTENTIONALLY murdered my family member (and a baby), then dumped her in the woods and didn’t tell anyone where she was for NINE days– while people were searching for her.
I think this man would be better suited to serve prison time 5-10 years, then paroled on the condition that he spends the rest of his life going from school to school — with MADD and preaching about the dangers of drunk driving.
He might have gotten only 14 years if he’d plead guilty to the crimes he committed instead of trying to get off with a technicality. As to his parole, and service to MADD. that’s nice, but given that Danny, one of the victims of this crime is already doing that, there’s no reason for Michael to get a reduction in his sentence for something he’d just use his lawyer to try and reduce or declare unenforcible, as other criminals have done in the past.
You’re right, Lanie. It was just a mistake.
It’s so unfair that we punish mistakes in this country. Mistakes like killing 5 people because you were drunk.
Mistakes are unintentional errors, not crimes. So why do we treat people like Michael Gagnon like he’s a criminal? He’s not a criminal, he’s a mistake-maker. He should never have been arrested in the first place.
I mistakenly made a wrong turn today, I missed the street I was supposed to turn onto. So I had to go to the next street and turn back. Do I deserve 43 years in prison? Of course not! It was just a mistake.
I’ll bet everyone reading this post made a mistake today. Do they deserve the death penalty? Let’s be reasonable. What has our justice system come to, that we punish mistakes?
The mistake of drunk driving/killing entire families should be legal in all 50 states. Let’s keep mistakes legal!
this is the saddest part about the whole crash in my option
http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=8580397. No matter how harsh the sentence, there will be more drunk driving accidents and deaths, no matter how long the sentence, even if the DP was passed or people killed. Because either they don’t care or never think they’ll be that drunk, it’s always the other guy.
I think lanie and maybe others are totally missing the point of “going to jail”.
so here goes!
people are incarcerated so they will not do the same crime (or other crimes) again and/or for a VERY VERY long time!!!!
period! that’s it lanie!
so if you ran this country (thank the good lord you dont, lol)…..people would commit crimes (intentional or not), that doesnt matter!! and be released much sooner than they should and most likely COMMIT AGAIN!!! so lanie please realize that….you see it as “another life being wasted”. most of us who understand the judicial system realize that people are incarcerated for the general public’s safety!
if this clown got out in 5 years, 6 years, 8 years, it’s almost certain it would happen again.
just read the article that someone attached about the guy who has like 5 dui’s!!
before you post something and are emphatic about it, think!!!
please!!!
ONE MORE THING…
i think lanie is ASSUMING (which is totally wrong when it comes to human lives) that when these people serve their short sentences that they will be cured and never harm again….lanie we dont live in that kind of world…
you cant assume that. i think i finally figured out where your strange thought process with this situation came from…that you assume people will repent and be cured and never harm again…and thats wrong, very wrong…very scary and very wrong!
Wow. John how did you figure that one out?
I just thought maybe she was infatuated with the guy. After all she did post his picture up there.
_________________________________________
Oh poor Gagnon, so handsome looking and charming.
I don’t know if I should choose you or Jean Pierre Orlewicz.
I hope you get five years so we can be together. In five years I’ll be ready to meet you and all you worry will go away. Poor Gagnon, if I were there, none of this would’ve happened. I’ll protect you from all harm.
Love,
Your biggest fan
L.
Too funny T.
ur lucky ur a chik n i cant hurt ya 4 dat comment, lemme do 2 u what he did 2 my mom n 4 sisters, n see if u still feel the same, if not den i gotta tell ya u must be even more mentally fucked up by this then i am
Actually I don’t believe that Gagnon will serve the 43 years that the family thinks he doesn’t deserve. It will be less than that because I have a feeling that he will be killed in prison.
mike is my cousin, and i have mixed feelings about this, its like i dont think he deserved that much time but at the same time i do. im gonna miss him very much, me and my brothers were very close with him, i have a picture with him and my brother standing next to each other the night it happened and i look at it everyday and wish i could have been there at our party. i would have never allowed him to get in that truck or i would have drove myself cuz im not much of a drinker. i pray that he does ok in prison and i hope he makes it out of there alive. ill be 70 when he gets out and if im still alive ill be there to welcome him home.
John S.
Damn! My cousin and I are pretty tight, but if she went out and got wasted and decided to drive in that condition and kill 5 innocent people (especially sweet innocent children) I would probably disown her after I personally kicked her ass. Sorry CUZ, I don’t associate myself with drunk driving murderers. Have a nice lifetime in jail stupid Bitch.
Dont drop the soap Mr. Gagnon. (pretty original huh?)
One other thing John S. no offense but since we’ve actually got a family member on this discussion, tell us….You were saying that you would have never let him get in that truck in that condition…….why weren’t your other family members that smart? I’m sorry John. It just blows my mind.
i couldnt tell you that cuz i wasnt there i was working that night. i know that an arguement happened and thats why mike stormed off in the truck. it wasnt just to go get some taco bell.
im a cook at Bob Evans in Dearborn michigan, and like a month after it happened i asked my boss if we could start a donation cup for the family that my cousin killed. my boss ended up getting corporate to host a huge benefit for them and i was there at the benefit working my ass off. Daniel Griffin showed up and i walked up to him and i didnt last 5 seconds without tears coming to my eyes, i gave him a hug and told him how deeply sorry i was for my cousins actions, i know it didnt mean much but i felt like i should have done that. anyway the benefit raised over 100,000 dollars for him and i felt pretty good about it since it might not have happened if i didnt ask my boss to start a donation cup.
so yes mikes family is very remorseful
this is directed towards jason, idk if uve mentioned this already but r u the same jason dat was ma moms friend? if so its good 2 see ya fightin 4 em n i thank u 4 dat i cant remember if ive met you or not but i know we talked on the phone couple days after the accident if not it was online at my moms house couple days after the accident, btw life here with without ma mom making me pumpkin pancakes in the mornin n my lil sisters callin me brettie n pissin me off really sux n i miss it so, if ne1 disagrees with what the jason has 2 say yall can go fuck off until u go through what ive been through u have no right 2 post ne negative comments
Yeah, your mom came to my wedding, we talked often and while I miss her it is nothing compared to your loss. If you need to get in touch with me, call Danny or Angella and they’ll give you my personal phone. Barring that, you know my last name and can find me through Google.
brett were you one of the survivors?
Beau, Sydney and Danny were the survivors of the accident; Brett was not in the car, but is one of Bethany’s sons so is one of her surviving relatives.
“accident” in only the legal definition of when two vehicles collide.
I cant express to you both how ashamed and sorry that my cousin was a complete fuckin idiot that night. id love to break every bone in his body but i cant, but im sure they will take care of that for me in prison i just hope he makes it out of there alive. i wish there was more i could do for your family. Ever since it happened ive been racking my brain tryin to think of how i can make some good out of this. And I keep drawing blanks.
aiit u can do one thing for me beings ur his cousin, telll da rest of ur family mainly i think his mom n sister i think it is to stop harping on about how harsh of a punishment he got cuz the judge was looking for popularity is a bullshit excuse cuz i rather think him lucky hes in jail n not out here dealing with me ;)
i feel you…but i mean you do kind of have to understand how they feel. mike’s mom will be dead byt he time he gets out. so of course shes going to think it was a harsh punishment. and i think it is too! no one should have to suffer that…especially you! you cant see your mom nor sisters anymore. shouldnt they be ablet o express how they feel showing that they cant see their brother/son. now tell me if you had a son…im sure you would think thats a harsh punishment you couldnt see your son! i mean theres both sides to the story. your family wont ever see those that have passed away. now mike’s family cant see him! so not only one family should suffer, you think both should because your mad. and in a way he is kind of lucky hes in jail only because of all the people that want to kill this man. but i dont think he should deserve 43 years. i saw michael’s face in the court room. he could barely read his letter without busting into tears… hes trying to show compassion and show that he really is sorry. ok, so say one of your friends has a gun and he “accidentally” shot you. would you stay mad at him forever even if he showed he was deeply sorry? i just dont see how he should “deserve” to have 43 years….
Holy cow! Look, this guy made a single mistake, but that mistake cost a huge price. HUGE!
He CHOSE to get in that truck and go out on the road, after he had been drinking. Unless he is retarded, he knew that this is a BAD idea. Everyone knows that drinking and driving is dangerous AND illegal.
Gagnon chose to 1) Drink to excess 2) follow his desire for Taco Bell 3) NOT ask a designate driver to take him 4) drive while intoxicated
As for how he physically reacted to the alcohol, or his anger issues – they may not have been choices – but the “single mistake” he made, involved at least four decisions that HE could have made differently, to change the outcome.
43 years may sound like a long time, but spread it out among all the people he KILLED, and I think you might rethink that. That is less than 10 years per person. I think that is not quite long enough.
I think that it is pretty hateful that you respond to the son/brother of the VICTIMS here, trying to justify why this guy should get leniancy. If half of YOUR family was wiped out, would you feel so forgiving? And would you appreciate the family of the KILLER trying to justify his behavior?
I don’t think so. Shame on you.
Michael’s family can STILL see him!! Ever hear of visitation?? All the Griffin’s & Burkman’s have are urns and memories!! As for Michael’s compassion – HMMM, I saw his speach. Not quite sold on that one. Why wasn’t he crying? Why hold back the tears? None of us are!! I have (2) children. One that is nearing the age of driving. I have drilled this tragedy into their heads and will continue to do so!! My son knows that if he EVER did this to anyone, I would always love him but would NEVER stand by his side for what HE chose to do!! The judge gave him what she could!! Unfortunately, it will never be enough!! Too many times these drunks get off. Times are changing and so should the laws!!
well..i understand wat your saying but like i said there are two sides to the story imagine how the family of the gagnons feel and the griffin family. they both have had something happen to them. and how could someone that has a blood alcohol level of 0.254 know wat hes doing. hes too drunk to go up to someone and ask them to take him to taco bell. and for alot of people when they are drunk they have no concious mind of if they are drunk or not. and like John S. said “an arguement happened and thats why mike stormed off in the truck.” so its not like he needed a midnite snack. and most of you have probably drove home drunk at least once. you just never got caught. so dont throw stones if you have a glass house
Who was Mike arguing with and what was the argument about?
does it matter to you? my cousin is in jail already thats not going to change whether hes getting out or not….irrelevant
You think the fact that he killed 5 people and critically injured 2 others is irrelevant to his sentence of 43 years, so I find it hard to understand how understanding his motive in driving off in a “huff” to go kill some people is irrelevant to your case that he should get a lighter sentence.
Who made him angry enough to go kill people?
What was the argument that started the end of his and other’s lives?
Yes, as a matter of fact, it does matter to you. I would like to know who was arguing with Mike, since they are certain to have seen him leave and I would also like to know what about the argument compelled Mike to choose to drive his brother’s truck after drinking and smoking marijuana rather than choosing an alternative (e.g. going to the hotel next door where rooms were booked for Mike and his family to stay for the night)
“…most of you have probably drove home drunk at least once. you just never got caught. so dont throw stones if you have a glass house”
Guess what? I have never driven drunk. Ever. Not even a little tipsy. So I can throw all the stones I want.
Here’s the part I can’t understand. You say “…but never got caught…” Gagnon didn’t just “get caught” he KILLED five people. He destroyed a family. He single-handedly made horrible decisions that caused damages that can never be fixed. That is a shame. It would have been better if he had “gotten caught” and put in jail for a while, to (hopefully) learn his lesson. But unfortunately for him, he didn’t just “get caught”… he wiped out half a family.
Just put yourself in the position of the victim’s family. Would you think that 43 years was long enough for what he did? If you say yes, then you are lying.
michael gagnon may have made a humungous mistake but your sitting here talking about this mistake he made….look at yerself…you cant tell me you havent made a mistake but really, you never got caught…thats why yer sitting here and putting down this one person that already feels ultimately bad
Caught? It would have somehow made it better if Michael Gagnon had gotten away from the scene of the crime?
Death.
Death.
Death.
Death.
Death.
Critical Injury
Critical Injury
That’s what we’re talking about here.
Vadie would in all likelihood have lived to be 84 years old or older. Bethany was still young and would not have been opposed to one more child. Despite the angry l33t Brett’s throwing around, her children were smart and headed for good things.
If you’d prefer not to say who you are, fine, but do it in silence. You aren’t anonymous. You aren’t fooling anyone.
thats not wat i meant…because they already had is license plate anyway…i meant like i know people that have drank and drive and they came out fine and wasnt caught… michael was definitely over the limit and duh! he was caught! but how does that make him different from those that have gotten away…im not saying he doesnt deserve some time in jail but 43 years????
Take some time to consider this.
1. He did kill people. (I know you know this, but it has to be listed first every single time, because it’s the reason the laws were changed to specifically make killing people with a car while drunk much worse than just a DUI and worse than accidental Manslaughter)
2. He did not plead guilty, he plead no contest, something judges hate because it is a technical plea which means, “I don’t think I did it, but I can’t get out of this proof.” By failing to say “Guilty” Gagnon antagonized the judge. He may not have known better, but his lawyer did and the consequences are usually this severe when you antagonize your judge.
3. Most DUI offenders, regardless of whether they kill people or not, do it again. You can take their keys away, forbid them to drive, hide the alcohol, but eventually they return. Almost 80% of DUI Homicides come from people who had a prior DUI or run in with the law involving substance abuse.
“How does that make him different…”?!
1) He chose to drink in excess (BAC level of .254)
2) He chose to smoke marijuana in excess (THC level 114)
3) He chose NOT to have his designated driver take him wherever he needed to go
4) He chose NOT to walk 100 ft. from the bar and stay at one of the hotel rooms that were already booked for the night
5) He chose to drive FOUR miles in the wrong direction, ignoring oncoming traffic and horns honking at him
6) He KILLED five people and INJURED two others
7) He chose not to allow police to administer a breathalyzer at the scene
8) He chose to plead not guilty (initially)
9) He chose to plead no contest
10) He chose to use him being in blackout phase as his line of defense
That’s what makes him different than those that got away! That’s why he was sentenced to 43 years!
MISTAKE does not equal CHOICE
MISTAKE
1. an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.
2. a misunderstanding or misconception.
–verb (used with object) 3. to regard or identify wrongly as something or someone else: I mistook him for the mayor.
4. to understand, interpret, or evaluate wrongly; misunderstand; misinterpret.
–verb (used without object) 5. to be in error.
CHOICE
1. an act or instance of choosing; selection: Her choice of a computer was made after months of research. His parents were not happy with his choice of friends.
2. the right, power, or opportunity to choose; option: The child had no choice about going to school.
3. the person or thing chosen or eligible to be chosen: This book is my choice. He is one of many choices for the award.
4. an alternative: There is another choice.
Mike made a MISTAKE not a CHOICE. He knew that drinking and driving is against the law (his own brother was arrested for a DUI four months prior to December 30th). He knew that driving under the influence of marijuana is against the law. He made the choice to drive after drinking and smoking marijuana. There were alternatives that he could have chosen, however, for whatever reason he chose to drive drunk and high. I am sure Mike feels bad about what happened. I know he didn’t intend to kill five people and injure two more. However, he did kill five people and injure two more. We’ve all made negative choices and we’ve all had to face the consequences to those choices at oe time or another. And yes, we’re talking about the choice Mike made, not because we’ve made the same choice and never got caught, but rather because we’re taken aback by the particular choices Mike made that night.
I made a mistake (how ironic)…
Mike made a CHOICE not a MISTAKE
michael said he does not remember that nite very well, almost not at all and i know your thinking “oh, how convenient” now tell me, have you ever gotten completely wasted and could not remember that nite? or maybe you know someone that has…if your not a drinker. Michael was not in the rite state of mind to be making the right choices. most drunk people dont make the rite choices thats why things like this happen
but, out of all of this “everything happens for a reason” and i very much believe that. if you are a firm believer in god, then yew know wat im talking about. he doesnt just take people away from us for the hell of it. theres reasons why things like that happen.
and what makes you think “he knew this and that” have you talked to him personally? i mean yea weve seen him on tv
but he said he knew he has made a mistake…so please get that rite
but out of all your saying, you think that its fair he gets 43 years????
Are you saying there’s a chance he didn’t know that drinking and driving is illegal? Or that driving under the influence of marijuana is illegal? Or his intentions were to kill five people and injure two more? Those are the only three things I said he knew above.
I know he said he made a mistake. I’m disputing what he did was a “mistake”. I believe what he did was a choice…a series of choices (i.e. drinking to excess, smoking marijuana to excess, driving under the influence, etc.)
and what makes you think “he knew this and that” have you talked to him personally? i mean yea weve seen him on tv
but he said he knew he has made a mistake…so please get that rite
but out of all your saying, you think that its fair he gets 43 years????
and last thing, i know he knows that drinking and driving isnt rite but that was BEFORE he was drunk….again–when your drunk you tend to do things you wouldnt normally do hence “drinking and driving”
You know what? No! Responsible people do not normally get “wasted” and not remember the night before. I drink (and have smoked more than a joint or two in my life) but I have never forgotten stuff like that. And I have never once gotten behind the wheel of a car when I was drinking or stoned. Nor would I ever let anyone I know – especially family – drive drunk. Interestingly though, none of my friends or relatives would do that anyway.
What’s the difference here? Why do you seem to accept the fact that people get wasted, drink and drive, and forget things, and I find that whole idea to be unfathomable? Maybe that explains why you think 43 years is too long? Maybe because the killer could have been you, or any number of your friends or family? It happened to be Mikey-boy, but it coulda been any of ya’ll?
I ask again – try to put yourself in the position of the father or the brother of the victims. Would you really, honestly, TRULY, in your heart, feel that 43 years was too long? Hell no.
Then choose NOT to get so drunk AND high that you don’t remember events that take place. Make better CHOICES. This was NOT a MISTAKE it was a CHOICE.
A mistake can be a choice and a choice can be a mistake. Think about.
^^^^sorry i meant to reply to an earlier comment but i posted it again under the correct response
AH HA! I got it now! You’re his defense atty?! That explains the “prefer not to say” handle.
whoeva the fuck ur “prefer not to say” i seriously think ur fuckin retarded n id like to know ur IQ…theres not 2 sides 2 da story…cuz really if my cousin did that id be pissed as all hell at him/her n id believe theyd deserve what they got…n if he wouldntve been soo stupid as to get dat wasted n drive this wouldntve happened…yes ive done things in my life i regret but im not soo stupid to drive with someone whos been drinkin
Yeah, big bad man in the big black truck going to drive like the aggessive asshole that he is. I believe he was driving in an angry murderous & drunken rage that night. He was one of those asshole in the monster truck that thinks he was king of the road. I see that mentality on the road when I see those kinds of trucks. Very often the drivers are aggressive assholes. Pour them full of alcohol and then you REALLY HAVE TO STAY OUT OF THEIR WAY. They have the big truck and most everyone else is in their little cars. Bet Gagnon felt pretty damn superior in a 250 or 350. I have ridden in one of those. Cars are like little ants next to you. YOU ARE KING!!!. That night he was KING and to hell with anyone in his way.
On another note, I listened to a radio interview of the Gagnon parents. The dad said something that pissed me off to no end. He called MADD a vigilante group!!.. Gagnons you twisted people… So what should we just let the drunks do their carnage all over the hiway and kill innocent people? I don’t care what label you want to give MADD, AT LEAST MADD IS FUCKING DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PROBLEM IN OUR SOCIETY.
Another thing, is that God has no part in this and did not chose your loser son to kill 5 innocent people. Your son is not the ‘chosen one’ by some mythical God that you believe in.
Sorry, NEVER drank and drove!! ALWAYS had a DD!! I like to know what’s going on at all times. Besides, if I want to get waisted, I’ll do it at home where I’m safe. Anyone that has ever come to my house and “partied” stayed the night!! I don’t let people drive drunk!!
How did he get the keys?? Supposedly the truck belonged to his brother. What about his sister?? Wasn’t she supposed to be “watching” everyone?? Listen to the radio interviews. What’s now being said here doesn’t match what their saying.
Oh just one more question – If Michael Sr. thinks MADD is just a vigilante group, then why does Clara belong to a MADD site and why does she want to help??
They keys were in the truck, mike used the number key code to get in the truck.
WTF? You are saying that this guy was so freaking drunk that he couldn’t remember not to drive, and couldn’t remember not go down the wrong side of the road, but he remembered his brothers truck numberpad???
Someone is full of shit, John. I don’t know if it’s you, or you are just hearing and retelling this crap, but think about it – Einstein. Does that make an ounce of sense?
And stop with the thoughts of “destiny” too. That’s the kind of self-righteous crap that people say to try and shift the blame off themselves. It was not the victim’s pre-determined destiny to be annihilated by your cousin. Your cousin spun the wheels of fate and those poor people lost.
Hopefully some good does come out of this tragedy. Hopefully every single member of his family will get sober and make a vow to never drive drunk again. But it is incredibly selfish and wrong on so many levels to imply that the victims were “supposed” to have this happen, so that YOUR family would learn a lesson.
You know what else boggles my mind? A week before that we were supposed to have our family christmas party but a big snow storm prevented family members from traveling so we postponed it till the next week. maybe this did happen for a reason who knows, i know i will never get behind the wheel intoxicated nor anyone im around. i hope everyone in the family learns this lesson as well cuz there is about 20 of us all around the same age.
Something good has to come out of this.
Being that intoxicated, I can’t believe he actually got into the truck using the keypad. Sounds like a functioning alcoholic to me. He had a problem long before this happened and no one helped him. Listen to the judge – she stated it the best!! His brother had a problem too and got caught as well. Thank GOD no one else was involved. Lesson learned?? Obviously not by Michael. I’m not picking on you John S. You are related to him and have somewhat of the same opinion as others here defending the Griffin-Burkman families. This is a Griffin-Burkman tragedy as Lacie, Haley and Beau (Brett too) are Burkman’s.
well all i was saying is that… there are some things you can do when your drunk and there are some things that you cant do when your drunk…just like i said your not in the rite state of mind to be thinking the rite things in most cases, and the only reason i am defending him is because he made a mistake i know michael he is a sweet heart and i didnt think he would everrr do something like this, but he did. and hes part of my family and he needs all the support he can get and thats why im here defending his title. im not against the griffin-burkman family im just trying to relate the message that he is really sorry. i dont think he will ever get tired of saying it. i just know he is (as it says in his letter) “deeply sorry for the damge he has caused”…etc
and i am not trying to “shift the blame” i am simply defending my family! i mean what he did was wrong but i cant turn my back on him. and i also feel for the griffin-burkman family i didnt want (brett) to think i was trying to be against him…i was putting some ideas out there that might have gone through his mind, but people on here are trying to twist things to make it seem even more awful than what it already is.
The message that he is really sorry has been relayed. Thank you.
Please elaborate as to what has been twisted on here to make things seem more awful than they already are.
many things…as you can see this forum is very very very long… and i did pont some of them out. i said im not trying to shift the blame, i didnt want brett to think i was against him….etc
Hopefully you can understand that some of the things you have indicated (e.g. referring to Mike’s choices as a “mistake”, expressing his sentencing as undeserving, not understanding why Mike is being treated “differently” than others that didn’t get “caught, etc.) are rather offensive to friends and family of the people that were killed and injured as a result of Mike’s numerous poor decisions. You may not want Brett to think you’re against him, however, when you clearly disagree with things that the friends and family feel so strongly about, you in fact are against us. Your words would’ve been much more receptive had you come to this site saying something along the lines of, “I’m sorry for what my cousin has done. He made poor decisions that night. I should’ve paid more attention to his actions that night and I’m sorry I didn’t. I’m sorry for the pain that this has caused everyone, the Griffins, Burkmans and Gagnons. I plan on doing everything I can (e.g. working with MADD) to prevent such a tragedy from happening again. I hope my cousin uses the time he was sentenced to make an impact on others not to make the same poor decisions he did and to do whatever he can to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.” The words you express seem to indicate that your defending Mike’s choices rather than making him take responsibility for his actions, which makes me feel like this tragedy has not impacted you enough in order for you to change your behavior or help others change their behaviors and well, a lesson hasn’t been learned and something like this could in fact happen again within your family. Mike didn’t make a mistake (a mistake would be him accidently forgetting to turn his headlights off on his truck). He didn’t accidently drink himself to a BAC level of .254. He didn’t accidently smoke to a THC level of 114. He didn’t accidently not stay at the booked hotel room. He didn’t accidently punch in the correct code in the keypad on the truck. He didn’t accidently put the key in the ignition and start the truck. He didn’t accidently drive to Taco Bell. He didn’t accidently decide to drive home, knowing he was intoxicated and high. These were all choices. And his choices cost five lives and severely injured two more. It’s a shame you feel like his sentence is too long. It’s a shame you feel five peoples lives were worth less than 7 years in jail and two peoples injuries are worth less than four years. My suggestion to you is unless you have some unknown information to share (like what exactly happened that night regarding this argument that took place) or unless you’re willing to accept Mike’s responsibility in this tragedy than you should walk away from this site and go on with your life because throwing more salt in already open wounds is only going to add fuel to the fire.
oh, and another thing– say if your cousin had done something like that…would you absolutely hate him?? how would you feel?
I don’t care if my brother or even my CHILD did something like that. I would not defend his actions. Period.
I would still love him, I would go visit in jail, and I would probably join my local MADD and see how I could help atone for my relatives behavior – not excuse it.
Yes, it would suck for my family member to be locked up for 43 years. Yes it would hurt me. But dammit! I would NEVER be able to let that outweigh my compassion and empathy for the people he destroyed.
I completely agree with Mazzi!! My son is 13. He will be driving in 3 years. I drill this story into his head. He has asked many questions about this. He knows that if he was in Michael’s shoes, I would still love him but NEVER stand by his side.
ok well…we are two different people and thats wat you would do if your family member had done something like that. and yess i do have compassion and empathy to the family that has been destroyed…no doubt! but i do stand by his side because he is trying to do rite and apologize for what hes done…but theres nothing he can do to bring them back and im sorry
you said you wouldnt care if your son or brother did something like that? how harshh…
Don’t try to nitpick English grammar with me, dear. You will lose.
When reading a response, it is generally understood that you must put statements into context. Most people who have beyond a 5th grade education understand this. I should have realized from the grammar in your your earlier posts, that this level of comprehension may be a bit advanced.
Since you are apparently confused, allow me to explain and rewrite my answer:
“In response to the question that you posed, wherein you asked how I would feel if my “cousin had done something like that”, it would not matter to me which of my relatives had done such a thing. If my own brother, or even my SON, was to commit such a terrible thing, I would not defend his actions.”
There ya go – understand?
No, I can’t say I would absolutely hate my cousin if he had done something like that. How would I feel? Probably guilty (had I been at the bar that night), embarrassed (to be related to someone that drove after drinking and smoking to excess), sad (for all parties involved), angry (at my cousin for making such poor choices) amongst other mixed emotions.
ok then…..thats exactly how i feel….i dont know if you noticed or not but i put my name “prefer not to say” for a reason…im embarrassed of my cousin but that doesnt mean im not going to stand for him… i mean can you blame me? i love him and i know he is not that type of person to do something wrong like that so thats another reason why im here for him
What you don’t seem to get is you say that you know Mike is not the type of person to do something wrong like this, however, he DID do something wrong like this. He may be a good person, but his first impression in the lives of the Griffins and Burkmans (and friends of both families) was that of a substance abuser that took his poor choices to such an extreme level that it cost five of their family members and severely injured two more. We really don’t care if you think he’s not that type of person to do such a thing ’cause he is the type of person to do something wrong like this because he in fact did just that. We don’t want to be in the positions we are in any more than you, but not accepting Mike’s behavior and the substance abuse problem he had isn’t going to make anyone hear feel any better. No one expects you not to love your cousin.
Bingo Anonymous!
That’s the part that his family doesn’t seem to “get”. The victims, and in fact, the rest of society should not be expected to accept that he has a problem, feel bad for him or even try to help him overcome his problems. That is certainly the role of the family (at least before he committed this crime), but it is not anyone else’s responsibility.
IF the victims choose to forgive him, that is their right. If the victims choose to not forgive him, that is their right too.
Forgiveness and understanding are not required – from anyone. But the best ways for him to get it, if he wants it, is to ASK for it, ACT like he is sincere and understand that no matter how much he wants it or no matter what he does, he may not get it. It’s not up to him.
Michael Gagnon is a good person, a good man, a good brother, friend, uncle, worker, etc. He is a young adult who made one bad choice that has ruined his life. He stated himself that he will live with a life sentence no matter the outcome of his sentencing.
To say that Michael apology was not true and from the heart is rediculous. To think that someone in his situation would not feel exactly how he said he felt is absurd. Someone stated that because he wasn’t crying they don’t believe his apology? My response is that’s because you don’t know him! You don’t know his character or they way he reacts to painful situations.
Instead of spending so much time hating on him and his family for his bad choice, spend your time praying for the Griffith family and ALL of the victims involved in this horrific accident, including the Gagnon family. Pray that the Griffith family is able to forgive Michael and move on with their lives. Pray that they have the strength to pick themselves up and start over.
Michael most definitely deserves the sentence he got, unfortunately, but pray that he is able to share this experience and truly impact peoples lives enough to prevent this from happening again. Something good comes out of every bad situation, and even if this horrific accident prevents only one driver from getting behind the wheel, something good has come.
Those who preach they don’t drink and drive and won’t let others drink and drive, continue with your efforts. Practice what you preach.
Bethany was a great person, great woman, great sister, great friend, great aunt, great worker, great daughter and great mother.
Haley was a great person, great young lady, great sister, great friend, great daughter, great grandchild and great niece.
Jordan was a great person, great young lady, great sister, great friend, great daughter, great grandchild and great niece.
Lacie was a great person, great girl, great sister, great friend, great daughter, great grandchild and great niece.
Vadie was a great person, great baby, great daughter, great niece and great grandchild.
Michael may be all of the things you said above, but one important thing you left out is he’s a drug abuser. I hope everyone that knows Michael accepts that fact, learns from that fact and helps prevent something like this from happening again.
Michael made numerous bad choices that night that has ruined his life, the Griffin’s (not Griffith) lives and the Burkman’s lives.
I am assuming that you are somehow related to Michael.
I personally don’t believe that he is a monster – unlike many of the people listed on this site. I do believe that he made bad decisions and that he must pay for them.
I just get angry when other members of his family try to somehow justify his actions, excuse his behavior, and whine about how long he was sentenced.
The fact that you have made no excuses for him, and have not complained that his sentence was “unfair” is worthy of respect, in my opinion.
“Someone stated that because he wasn’t crying they don’t believe his apology?”
Geneieve – I’m the one that asked why wasn’t he crying. So actually what you are saying is incorrect because I only said “Why wasn’t he crying.” I heard what he had to say and sorry if I just don’t buy it. It’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it.
Second – It’s GRIFFIN not Griffith.
Why can’t the Gagnon family accept what happened and move on?? Why appeal?? Why not just do the time when he’s the one that did the crime?? They can pray for the Griffin’s and Burkman’s all they want. The Griffin’s and Burkman’s don’t have to accept an apology from Michael or his family.
I don’t “hate” Michael. I pray to God that he can make an impact on others that are thinking about drinking and driving. I’m sure this tragedy has changed ways for some.
Renting rooms for family members having a party at a bar is very obvious that intentions were that people would be intoxicated. I’ve been told that the keys were in the truck and he used the keypad to get in. Now, if your intentions are to get waisted, then why leave the keys in the truck when you already know your sister is supposed to be watching?? I’m not blaming her. It’s still Michael’s fault. Just still wondering why.
“Those who preach they don’t drink and drive and won’t let others drink and drive, continue with your efforts. Practice what you preach.” – Already do that!!
Last night I spent time reading the website of another convicted drunk driver. Reading thru it ( especially the letters) gave me some peace about the Gagnon thing. What has happened, has happened and nothing can change that. Spending our time bitching about Mike or his family is pointless and is just poisoning our lives.
Read here to see what Mike now has ahead of him.
http://www.drinkdriveprison.com/index.html
We should be calling for the execution of anyone who commits a crime like Michael’s. The sentence should have been death.
Under the current laws, Michael should have plead guilty, not “Not guilty” and then later “No Contest” when he couldn’t get any of the evidence thrown out or work a side deal. He should have plead Guilty. If he felt bad about the crime instead of the punishment, he should have accepted responsibility and maybe the judge would have been more lenient. Because he chose to play games and plead a technical plea, she threw everything in her power at him.
His stupidity and the stupidity of his lawyer and family are the things that contributed to the “severity” of his sentence.
Very well said Jason – I completely agree!!
There is no way in on this earth that I could even begin to realize the depths of grief and suffering that the Griffin and Burkman families are and will endure for the rest of their lives.
I have not had a drop of alcohol for 2 years in August. I enjoyed drinking and the ONLY reason I decided to quit was my fear of causing a tradegy such as this. I found myself drinking and driving more and more often. On sober mornings after doing this I would be overwhelmed with the guilt of what I had done and who I might have maimed or killed as a result of MY actions.
I believe Michael is a good human being who made an awful decison to drive on that fateful night.
I can only say that if he is living with the tormented mind of someone who has done this, he is living a death sentence in hell on earth.
Of course I can’t truly walk in Michael’s shoes, but if I had caused this I would accept the 43 year sentence. I would devote that time, not only to educating, but trying to change the laws that would force people to seriously worry about ZERO TOLERANCE CONSEQUENCES for “any” DUI or reckless driving offense.
This whole tragedy is unbelievably unbearable as it is and will be even worse if someone elses life is not saved because of it.
Well said, Bonnie. That is what responsible people do. Of course, responsible people rarely find themselves in the position of drinking and driving anyway. It kind of goes with the territory.
I suspect that if this guy had been sincerely remorseful and if he was willing to step up and be a man, from the get-go, the judge may have shown more leniency.
Remember, judges see it all the time. They are usually pretty good at telling whether tears and contritration are due to true remorse, or if it is just the criminal’s self-pity for how unfairly they are being treated.
This was an accident…he doesn’t deserve to be in jail, let alone have his life ruined. The judge in this case is a heartless whelp…she’s the one that shoulod be in hell.
How many shots did you “accidentally” buy him?
An accident. Right.
He accidentally got drunk and stoned. He accidentally got into a fight at the party. He accidentally got into his brother’s truck. He accidentally turned the key. He accidentally put his foot on the accelerator. He accidentally drove to Taco Bell. He accidentally drove FOUR miles down the wrong side of the street, dodging cars coming at him, to ultimately accidentally kill 5 people, and severely hurt 2 others. He accidentally destroyed his victim’s family, and his own while he was at it.
How silly of us to think that he should accept responsibility for all of these accidents that happened. It surely was not his fault.
(Oh, and just for curiousity sake – how do you put “heartless” and “whelp” together to form an insult? A whelp is a puppy. Or a naughty boy. Neither one really works well with “heartless”, but it is especially stupid for an adult female.)
I just figured they’d been watching the third Pirates of the Caribbean movie and found they liked the insults used. They didn’t understand that the term whelp, in that connotation was used to belittle a “Man’s” fighting prowess by calling him a mere puppy.
In this case, the Judge in question understood the points of law and fact. The attorney Rick Sanders put everything Michael had or would ever have on the hope that he could remove evidence and then throw himself on the mercy of the court. Unfortunately, as I’ve said before, Michael’s technical plea and his sorrow over penalty not the consequences of his actions proved too blinding to the actual course of action a man should take. The answer? Michael Gagnon was the mere whelp who should have considered how best to be a man first, and a coward last. It’s called a backbone, and sometimes you only get to show it once. This was that case. You stand up, you plead guilty, even when the Lawyer says he “can get you off” or “I can get the evidence thrown out.”
Michael walked into a courtroom and plead “Not Guilty,” and later to this judge, he said “No Contest,” loosely translated to, “I’m not guilty but I can’t prove it in the face of the evidence against me.” In the beginning of all of this, I begged the Gagnons to look at the words they used and learn what they meant.
I begged them to understand what Michael should do. Michael was going to jail, but they shook their heads no, stuck their fingers in their ears, and ignored it. One person said only 17 years. I low balled it and thought only 30 something, but here he is, facing 43 years in prison.
Why?
1. Because he killed 5 people and injured 2 others.
2. Because he stood in front of a judge and lied when his attorney said “Not Guilty” on his behalf.
3. When he lied again and thumbed his nose at the Judge and entered a “No Contest” plea.
4. Because no one in his family tried to stop him and/or knew enough about the English language or about the honor of the whole thing to realize that what he was doing was wrong.
The crime got him the first 20 years, the rest fall on the shoulders of his cowardice and ignorance.
O.k. to the “Defenders of Michael Gagnon”……..please stop. Because it is doing absolutely no good. As you can see, not many people are on the Gagnon boat with you and honestly, I can’t believe I actually sat there and read most of the posts because it was all YAK YAK YAK BLAH BLAH BLAH. Well, when it came to the defending Gagnon part anyway. I say, leave it alone, he deserves hell and he deserves a life sentence in jail before he takes that little trip to hell. Thank you. Have a nice day. BTW….please do not respond to my post, because I don’t care. Umm….unless it’s an “AMEN ELISHA” That would be nice. :)
Amen Elisha!
AMEN Elisha!!
AMEN ELISHA!
Anyone who would call this an accident is either uninformed or sorely lacking in judgement. You don’t end up with a BAC of .245 by accident. You don’t end up with marijuana in your system by accident and you don’t sentence 5 people to death by accident. You don’t end up this way if you are a good person. Michael’s brother was also busted for DUI. This family seriously went off the tracks somewhere. If you listen to the interview the Gagnon parents gave that Toledo radio station the father seems fairly cognizant but based on her interviews and postings the mother seems to have “mommy issues.” She really needs some counseling and needs to stay away from messages boards and the media.
I don’t know if the sentence is fair or not. It seems a little light to only get 7 years per death. Child rapists get 20 or 30 years. Child killers only get 7? This is justice?
how about a fuck you elisha!
Yes, it’s comments like these that show the true colors of the Gagnon family / friends in their full glory. How do you shitty people live with yourself?
For real! What an amazing bunch of selfish, irresponsible people seem to surround this guy.
A note to Genevieve: No one gives a crap how nice or good or kind you say this turd is. Really, we don’t care!
He KILLED five people. He destroyed a family. It doesn’t matter if he is sweet and gentle, he KILLED five people. Do you not get that? HE KILLED FIVE PEOPLE!
I am sure that he didn’t mean to do that, but he did it. And it was not an accident. It was sheer stupidity on his part.
So, while you certainly have the right to love him, and to see past his stupidity, the rest of society does not care. And by trying to convince the rest of us – the people who care about the victims – you make yourself look cruel and heartless.
You seriously need to try and think about how YOU would feel if it was YOUR family. Really – close your eyes and imagine your five closest relatives. Now… imagine them being obliiterated in an instant. And, while you are at it, add in two more close relatives, and really fuck them up – think of them in the hospital, on life support and fighting for their lives.
Now, tell me how much you would care if their killer was a really nice guy when he wasn’t drunk, and that he’s real sorry he did it? If you say anything except “I wouldn’t give a SHIT – I would want to kill him myself” then you are a fucking liar.
Mazzi, you really must try to consider your audience here. Most of them are the human equivalent of bong residue so you must stick to statements such as “ur dumb lolz” or something along those lines. All you’ve accomplished here is giving them one more thing to ignore while they devote another hour attempting to lick a window clean.
you give bong residue a bad name =/
What an educated and mature response!
i think most people on here defending michael are trying to protect his character and the person we know him to be.
i dont believe in any way that they are defending his actions because there is absolutely no defending the actions that took place that resulted in this horrific accident.
Most of them appear to have their heads in their asses. How’s the view out of the brown eye Genevieve?
Now THAT was some funny shit.
:>))) Yeah Sher, too funny…lmao
Good luck “defending” Michael and “protecting” his character to people who have the first impression of Michael as being an alcoholic and drug abuser, who killed five friends/family members and critically injured two more, etched in their brain FOREVER! Any “good” Michael did prior to his poor choices on December 30th have been overruled by his decision to drive drunk and high on December 30, 2007, thus resulting in killing five people and injuring two others! And please, stop referring to what happened as an “accident”! What happened on December 30th was NOT an accident. Five deaths and two injuries as a result of someone’s poor choices is NOT an accident! And why are Michael’s friends and family so adament about protecting Michael NOW?! Why didn’t anyone try and protect him when he was walking out of the bar, drunk AND high, after an argument? That’s when he needed protection! And your defense mechanisms are about as beneficial as his attorney’s. How far did that get Michael?!
All I know is that when I’m drunk, high and in someone else’s vehicle the first thing I do is look for a family to destroy. Thanks Michael Gagnon! Without you I wouldn’t be the roadway danger I am today!
The kind of people who defend scum like Gagnon are no different from people who make excuses for school shootings and terrorism. They are no different from serial killer groupies, the ones who write letters to serial killers in prison. Besides, they are just doing more damage than helping how I see it.
i’m surprised any of you holier-than-thou, obviously faultless, people would condescend to responding to a gagnon supporter, which from the survey above, looks to be about a third. unfortunately, a madd survey shows that nearly 80% of all americans admit to driving after drinking. does that make it right, not exactly. does that give it an air of being acceptable, after all, nearly everyone is doing it, absolutely.
so while one would have to be completely cold and heartless to not feel sympathy for the griffin family, i’d have guess that a lot of people feel sorry for the gagnon family as well, for another life lost.
and just for the record, i’d also have to guess that michael gagnon had no intention of harming anyone that night when he got in his truck and drove. but yes, he is paying the consequence, however, his final judgement is between him and his maker, not any of you………no matter how judgemental you like to be.
now go ahead and rip me to shreds, if it will make you feel better about yourselves.
and just for the record, i’d also have to guess that michael gagnon had no intention of harming anyone that night when he got in his truck and drove.
He knew he was drunk and he knew the cops were coming when he drove away from Taco Bell. You ignorant savages continue to miss the point. You’ve taken the lies that Michael told and ignored the truth from the people who actually saw it. Ask Jacob, the Taco Bell guy what happened. Former Marine, responsible father of 2, he tried to stop Michael after the moron ordered a “Mexican Fiesta,” and who is wracked with guilt that he couldn’t have done more? Jacob, the man who called 911, because the cowardly child in man’s clothes and a working man’s truck couldn’t be bothered to grow up and take responsibility for his actions.
Take responsibility for your own “damned” actions.
Wisconsinite,
And that’s exactly it.. I knew the stats on how many people have drove a car while drunk was high — 80%.. yet most of the comments on here are damning Gagnon to hell. I bet at least a few of these people HAVE driven drunk before & this could have easily been them….instead of Gagnon.. yet, they’re damning him to hell.
I will admit that when I was younger – I did drive drunk on a few occasions..granted, I don’t think I was ever as loaded as Gagnon on that night, however, I still made HUGE mistakes.. luckily I got away with it – I never killed anyone, had an accident or even got a DUI.. but it really was luck.
I got accused of being family when I said I didn’t think his sentence was a just sentence.. it is wasting another life… Anyway, I love this site and I do love the posters on here – I just strongly disagree with them on the Gagnon issue.
I don’t think throwing him in jail for essentially a life sentence does anything really… I think a just sentence would have offered parole after 10 years or so.. and for him to go around the nation – for the rest of his life — and tell his story to high school kids and college kids… and at AA meetings, etc.
Even given that odds are high he would have driven drunk again, after his 10 year sentence?
He knew the consequences of his actions would be dire. He had a chance to get a lighter sentence by pleading guilty to all charges. He hedged, he hawed, he bucked the responsibility for the system and chose the wrong path again and again and again.
Can you site the source? Gagnon killed 5 people and must face the music.
*sigh*
The weird thing about statistics is how they can be manipulated to say just about anything you want them to say. It’s all about how you look at them. How many of those 80% had a beer or 2 and drove home. How many were legally drunk? And how many had a blood alcohol level 3 times the legal limit, were smoking weed, and drove 4 miles the wrong way on on a limited access highway because they wanted some Taco Bell. You see how that works?
Michael may have been a great guy when he was sober, a great son, a great friend. But that night, with all his inhibitions stripped away by the booze and the weed, he became a self-centered, self absorbed asshole who was a danger to everyone around him. When he drove that truck he became an unguided missle of death, and the Griffins were his unfortunate target. No one thinks he planned to kill or hurt anyone, but he also knew what could happen if he drove. He did it anyways. That’s what makes him such an object of everyone’s anger: He knew the consequences of his actions, and he didn’t care. He just didn’t care. The Romans had a saying, “En Vino Veritas”. It means “In Wine There is Truth”. This is Michael’s truth, and what he and his supporters have to accept.
The other thing that makes him the object of people’s anger is his apparent lack of remorse and his complete arrogance about what he did.
I think a lot of people are also really bothered by how many of his friends/relatives are willing to excuse his behavior – writing it off as an
“aaccident” or a “mistake” or bad luck…everyone does it… he’s such a nice guy (when he’s not killing people) blah blah blah.
It’s not hatred on my part towards this guy or his family – it is pity at how ignorant, irresponsible and selfish the whole lot is. And disgust that they cannot understand what a devestating impact this man had on an entire family. All they can see is how it impacts THEM.
Oh, and by the way wisconsinite – you might want to look up the word “judgemental” that you spit out like an insult. It doesn’t mean what you think it does. It really means that someone is “exercising or using judgement”. I tend to think that is a good thing. After all, had Michael Gagnon used good judgement that fateful night, none of us would be discussing this, would we?
The frustration stems from the simple fact that Michael chose to use him being in a blackout phase as an excuse for his poor choices, rather than taking responsibility for his actions and his family and friends continue to defend him, rather than accepting Michael for who he IS, which is an alcoholic, drug abuser, that killed five people and injured two more. The continuous cycle of denial within the friends and family members of the Gagnon Family who defend Michael leads friends and family members of the Burkmans and Griffins to believe that such a tragedy will happen again! What is it going to take for Michael and his friends and family that defend him to GET IT and LEARN A LESSON?! Apparently, killing five people and critically injuring two more doesn’t ring a bell/wave a red flag/turn on a light for Michael’s defenders! And THAT is what is frustrating for us! We’re not “holier-than-thou” or “faultless”…no one is! We’re just hoping that one, just ONE, defender of Michael might open their eyes and see that Michael is an alcoholic, drug abuser, who made poor choices and killed five people and injured more as a result of those choices. And that his defender will prevent it from happening again!
I say we gather the douche, his family and friends who have chosen to defend him, supply all the booze they can handle, then let them loose in an enclosed stadium and have a good ol’ demolition derby. After which the survivor hits the button and implodes the entire thing down upon the shit sandwichs.
seems only fair to me.
They would just whine, cry and tantrum about how good they are as people when someone got hurt and then refuse to take responsibility for any damages. As besides, I don’t think anyone has invented a chair that will seat someone whilst their head rests squarely in their rectum, much less an entire vehicle.
Maybe we could put them in tires and roll them down a hill at each other?
Why stoop to their level?! We’re trying to make a difference here, not condone stupidity!
So is the murderer going to appeal?
What prison is he in now?
Okay enough – Regardless of your views and thought and views. Micheal got a hard punishment and the Victims family forever have a lose. At this point your only using this site for your entertaiment and doing nothing to help anyone help, move on, or prevent this type of thing from happening again to other families – So ask yourself what are you doing this arguing and post for, Answer your selfish self
Actually, try googling drunk driver, and pretty soon, Michael Gagnon will be on every single page. He is the poster boy of worthless drunk drivers. He should have gotten the death
penalty, and that’s where this goes from here.
He isn’t Adolph Hitler, but when someone thinks about drinking and driving, I hope they think, “Wait a second, I really don’t want to be as bad as Michael Gagnon,” and calls a cab instead.
Gagnon’s family lost nothing but their sense of justice. They should have asked Michael to plead guilty to what he actually did, and maybe he would have gotten out in 17 or fewer years. A “No Contest” plea is like spitting in the judge’s face and saying, “I can’t prove I didn’t do it, but I think I’m not guilty.”
That’s why the judge found him guilty.
Have you driven drunk since his wreck? Did you drive drunk before? Do you want to end up as bad as he did?
Hey look! Something positive is coming from all of this, you haven’t tried to kill anyone recently.
I can’t answer myself. I’m stone deaf. Sorry.
And please excuse the spelling and grammar errors for those of you who have beening grading the past postings
Don’t worry about it. We know its hard for you to type with your elbows.
You must be a member of that fucker’s family…a drunk recognizing another drunk lol….although i have never made as many typos, and errors in judgement as you.
i strive to one day be as perfect as many of you seem to think you are! well, not really. it must be hard living in this imperfect world when you, yourself, do no wrong.
perhaps some of you might want to take a minute and peruse matthew 6:15 and move on. or you really may one day be seeing people in hell……not necessarily michael gagnon (as that is between he & his maker).
No thanks, Wisconsinite. I have better novels to read than that one.
MY God does not require that I follow an instruction manual. MY God simply requires that I do the right thing, and not hurt others. And I am pretty sure that MY God would be mighty pissed at me if I killed a bunch of people and then tried to weasel out of punishment for it.
But you feel free to believe what you are told, if it makes you feel better. And just hope that you still feel like that if some Michael Gagnon comes along and destroys your family some day.
Matthew 7:16-18 is just as important
16 – Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 – Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 – A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
I haven’t seen any good fruit from Michael, but the fruit of his evil is readily apparent.
Oh wait, Jesus has a remedy for that in Matthew!
19 – Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
I will now read to you from the Slim Picken 7:29
23 – STFU with all this biblical shit.
After all these months, it fries my brain that people still defend this POS murderer and continue to claim that this was an accident, bad choice or bad luck. That people still do not get Jason’s POV.
A friend of my family was driivng with her grandson in the car and swerved because there was a bee in her car. She hit a telephone pole and killed her only grandson, who’d been conceived IV.
THAT is an accident. It’s not illegal to swat bees in your car. It is an accident, a mistake, a bad choice..
What this POS did was to drive drunk, which by itself is illegal. He then committed multiple murders while in the process of committing a crime. He should get no less of a sentence than a burglar with a gun who kills a family while comitting the crime of burglary would have.
Drunk driving is not a mistake, a bad choice, or any other apologetic excuse past drunk drivers may want to provide for this POS. It is ILLEGAL, and any murders committed during the process of a crime should be treated equally.
Making drunk driving punishable with an initial mandatory 5 year sentence BEFORE anyone has been killed, and treating drunk driving celebrities the same as everyone else would be a nice start. Then if the drunk asshole kills someone, tack on the harsher sentence of murder during the comission of a crime.
Drunk driving is illegal, you apologist morans. Your logic is a twisty mess, unless you’re saying that if enough of the people you know, yourself included, have raped people, then therefore even if it’s illegal…. it’s not really wrong— because EVERYBODY’s doing it.
Everybody steals a little
and lies/perjures a little
cheats a little
assaults a little
molests a little
drives drunk a little
kills whole families a little
and then makes excuses a lot
Idgits, losers, all of you.
So nobody should ever be forced to do time for breaking laws and killing people?
Jason- you have my continued sympathy.
Boohoo- POS’s family will suffer if he serves 40plus? Clue- sometimes you drag your loved ones/family into hell with you when you do illegal and murderous things. Don’t blame the court or society for that— this POS is personally responsible for causing his own family grief.
c
i don’t recall saying that what michael gagnon did wasn’t wrong. absolutely, it was wrong. is his punishment a little excess? that is not my call. it’s not my job to judge him or anyone else. so is he damned to hell for his actions? that’s not for me, or for any of you, to decide.
what he did was wrong and he is serving his sentence for it. what you all are doing, however, isn’t exactly right either.
does that make it right, not exactly. does that give it an air of being acceptable, after all, nearly everyone is doing it, absolutely.
Acceptable:
1. capable or worthy of being accepted.
2. pleasing to the receiver; satisfactory; agreeable; welcome.
3. meeting only minimum requirements; barely adequate: an acceptable performance.
4. capable of being endured; tolerable; bearable: acceptable levels of radiation.
In answer to all of that, 80% of Americans consider the 0.08% BAC for drunk driving is a good limit.
http://www.madd.org/docs/Gallup_Highlights_2005.pdf
Please try to remember that Michael drove at over 3 times the legal limit for ALCOHOL and well over twice the limit for MARIJUANA!
As to Michael’s intentions, he put in a plea of No Contest, also called Nolo Contendere
“A plea in a criminal case by which the defendant answers the charges made in the indictment by declining to dispute or admit the fact of his or her guilt.”
http://www.answers.com/topic/nolo-contendere
The context is to stand silent in one’s defense.
Have you learned anything yet?
Hmmm I don’t quite equate the typing of my thoughts on an electronic media to that of WILLFULLY driving my vehicle into another, in the process killing a shitload of innocent people.
You have some odd priorities, and i hope you go get yourself checked out by one of the many, many good people invloved with this country”s great mental health instituitions!
If what I’m doing is wrong, I don’t wanna be right.
Amen.
OK – I am sick and tired of all this “it’s not our place to judge him” shit! Who do you think SHOULD judge him? Your God? When he’s dead? Till then just let him run around doing whatever he wants, hurting or killing anyone, because God will get him in the end? What kind of stupid BULLSHIT is that?
This is not an either/or situation, it is BOTH. We, as humans who reside on the same earth as this man, have the RESPONSIBILITY to protect the rest of society. We have laws to keep the bad people in line, and we have not only JUDGES, we have juries of our PEERS. That is – in case you don’t quite get it – just plain old people who hear what this guy has done, and decide (ie: JUDGE HIM) what to do about it.
I sure as hell judge others, and I know that others judge me. That’s one of the reasons I DON’T do bad things, because I am well aware that others will look at the bad things I do, and judge me.
And, you know what, you hypocrite? YOU judge others! You have done it right here on this board. You just don’t see it, because you have your head so far up your uppity ass that you can’t see much.
And, if you can understand the concept of semantics, NONE of us believe we are sending these creeps to hell, we are simply saying that if there IS such a place (as in traditional Christain mythology), he would belong there.
Thank you very much, and have a nice day.
Mommy and Daddy Gagnon can always visit their little boy.
He appealed his sentence today. This piece of work thinks his sentence is too long? Only killed 5 people you know. He is a good boy ( sarcasm!)
He hedged himself in here.
By pleading “no contest,” he agreed to the judge’s sentencing guidelines. His appeal can only hedge on whether or not the judge followed the sentencing guidelines as they were written–guess what, she did and anyone who read the guidelines would know that.
Gagnon’s best chance for appeal, would have been if he fired his lawyer immediately after sentencing, and tried to get him disbarred for giving him improper legal advice. With proof that Sanders had been disbarred or that the Bar would have a hearing, he could have requested a new trial, and plead not guilty.
But he’d still lose that case, still be found guilty, and the judge would have every right and even encouragement to throw the full weight of the original sentence against him.
His only chance to leave jail earlier than the current sentence rested with accepting full responsibility for his actions by pleading guilty, followed by a heartfelt apology at his sentencing. His only chance was to plead guilty.
he deserves to be hog tied and placed in the oncoming way of an 18 wheeler with no brakes.
Michael Gagnon’s Myspace Page:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=368333440
(I’m assuming his mom uses it)
Samuel Gagnon’s Myspace Page (now public):
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=108121943
What happened to the appeal?
Yeah, look at ol Sammy’s myspace. Trying to use the God thing now. What a joke. His friends are still the party people. Some people never learn. How the fuck can he be out drinking when his brother killed 5 people while drunk.
People make excuses by saying they are a good Christian. Pathetic all I can say.
Sammy’s page is great. An add for Christian Concrete (whatever that is) and a bunch of friends telling him where the next parties are and inviting him to bars. I hope he’s not all Michael style the next time I drive through his city in my van with my family in the car.
he plead no contest and got 43 years in prison, not long or painful enough if you ask me.
He appealed it.
how the hell can he appeal his own damn plea?
I dunno! Does seem kinda stupid.
I’ll bet he thought if he pled no contest he would get off with a light sentance. He got stuffed and now he don wanna play no mo.
He’s attempting to appeal his sentencing, but his attorney failed to inform him of the nature of his plea. No Contest pleas mean the defendant is saying, “I’m not guilty, but I can’t prove it so I’m not going to fight the case for now.” Most judges consider the plea as a clear sign of a lack of remorse, as well they should. A guilty plea though, leaves out a chance for some sort of wrangling he might do if he wanted to appeal the way the evidence was presented. It also can be used in civil suits to support the plaintiff’s case, where a No Contest plea is harder to use. So what did the judge in this case do? She figured at best she could give Michael 46 years under the guidelines she had, but if she picked the maximum sentence, it could be considered too draconian by an appeals court, and her judicial impartiality could be questioned. 43 years was a cold, hard calculation of how much she could give within the specific sentencing guidelines given. I’m not a resident of her mind nor have I met the judge, but she was antagonized by Michael’s defense enough to choose the harshest sentence she could give without risking overturn on appeal.
That’s really interesting Jason. It makes perfect sense too. May I ask if you are an Attorney or Paralegal, because if you aren’t, you should be. Whatever the case, you’re damn smart.
I’m a computer programmer whose done some work with attorneys. One way to deal with my grief involved contacting these attorneys and friends of friends who were near the case to get a blow by blow break down of the moves being made.
Rick Sanders case law was available online–his specialty appears to be negotiated settlements, which doesn’t work in a case when the family isn’t interested in a mere apology and the DA won’t budge without all three of the surviving parents’ say so.
Danny is a friend of mine still, even though distance doesn’t allow me to be too close.
Danny’s sister reads this forum from time to time.
As does one of Bethany’s surviving sons.
I don’t think I could be a lawyer for the same reason being a doctor would be a mistake–I can’t stomach the necessities the situation where a code guides me instead of my ethics and internal moral compass. I couldn’t have defended Michael, and I doubt if my scotch-Irish blood would have allowed me to look him in the eye without attempting murder. Cold hard logic is what this needed. The justice system is here to protect Michael and his family from a blood feud as much as it attempts to punish Michael for his crimes. Michael will continue to butt against this wall of justice for some years to come. Hopefully, he’ll stop slamming his head into that wall and choose to face what he’s done completely, ask to change his plea to Guilty, and then await the end of his sentence or death looking for a way to help make this never happen again.
A plea agreement is not a contract. I rarely do hear about it happening though. I don’t it will be revoked.
It’s been a year. I still miss them.
You never stop missing them Jason. I lost my best friend in a tragic accident seven years ago.
I focus on the fantasitc times i had with him, all the fun we had and always picture his smiling face.
The other day, i was cleaning out my purse and found the death notice i put in the paper when he died. And it all came back. I got all teary and missed him all over again.
But then i just thanked God that i had the oppertunity to have such a wonderful person touch my life. Even if it was only for a short time.
Hold those fond memories close, and it makes things a little easier.
I miss them too. Our group has been talking about it since it happened which does help. We are now sharing the stories we remember which brings tears but also brings a smile so we can remember the good times we shared with her.
I hope that the New Year brings you happiness and relief from your grief.
Jason,
Will you marry me?????
Already Happily married 2 years, 3 months, and 3 days.
Not that your keeping count, right? LOL.
Michael Gagnon A585308 2001 E. Central Avenue P.O. Box 80033 Toledo, Ohio 43608
Let him know how you feel.
Thank you Bubba
It’s so sad the pain this family had to and has too endure because of one selfish idiot. His family must be ashamed. I hope Bethany and her kids rest in peace. I hope this never happens to anyone ever again. GROW UP PEOPLE. YOU’RE SELFISH DECISIONS KILL PEOPLE. God bless this family and I hope this piece of crap gets everything he deserves.
Michael Gagnon has filed for an appeal to get his 43 year sentence reduced.
5 people dead, and he wants his time reduced.
http://apps.co.lucas.oh.us/onlinedockets/Docket.aspx?STYPE=1&PAR=CL0200801235-000&STARTDATE=01/01/1900&ENDDATE=01/01/2100&PARTY=0
August 24, 2009 is the scheduel appeals date
thanks for the update dino much appreciated
The problem is, his family is NOT ashamed. They show unabashed support for him and constantly whine about his sentence, even in the faces of his victim’s family and friends. The Gagnons claim to be Christians but they are the worst kind of hypocrites. Even now, his brother Sam is still posting pics of him out drinking and partying.
All of you need to lay off the family of M. Gagnon. Leave them out of it.
Micheal Gangon’s fat cunt of a mother needs to stay of the radio and news promoting her disgusting, white trash family. They are bringing all the attention on themselves trying to make people feel sorry for the poor choice’s her sons made and continue to make. The whole family are a bunch of drugged up losers. Get real lady and take some responsiblity for being a failure as a mother in the first place.
And who gives a shit what Sams friends are doing ? You dont have friends that drink ? They owned that concrete buisness before any of this happened. I would say about 75% of these facts you guys are posting are BULLSHIT. Nobody gave keys away to anybody to drive away drunk with. Leave the family alone. Im sick of hearing, the family is this or the family is that. Dont slam the whole family for what one person did.
hmm.. doesn’t it say in the bible that it is a sin to judge others? did you personally go to hell and check on the innocent children to make sure they were there? you are not god. do not say where people are. i’m sorry, i just fail to see how even an eight week old baby could be full of sin. you are ridiculous.
2 years ago she was showing that lovely girl off to her family in Michigan. Presents had been unwrapped, and one more Christmas errand was finished. They loaded up the car with family, luggage and gifts, and most were resting in the car as Danny drove them across Ohio, headed towards Baltimore, Maryland.
He’d just finished up drinking up and smoking marijuana with his cousins and brother. He’d had an argument that no one to this day will share the details of, but he went outside, punched some numbers in the keyless entry of the truck and drove down a couple of blocks to order a “Mexican Fiesta.” A phone call was made, but Jacob couldn’t stop this fool. Michael realized the gig was up, as he bumped over the curb in his hurry to run from the cops. He even passed the cops as he peeled out and turned onto the wrong way of the on ramp. He drove for miles, passing swerving cars on the wrong side of the victory bridge until he found his victims.
His loaded pickup sheared through the family passenger car like a knife, where metal parted and seats were hurled, human bodies were lacerated, tossed and crushed. Danny came too a few moments later and saw Bethany. She was just dead, there was no way she could have survived being hurled out. He couldn’t find Jordan, his daughter from a previous marriage–she was under the car. Haley and Lacie were dead, girls who’d been a Pirate and a mermaid only a few months before, and Ravens Witches for the football games a little more recently, were now simply dead. 8 week old Vadie, was alive, but nothing could save her. She’d been shaken so hard an English Au pair couldn’t have done worse. She’d be dead at the hospital in a few minutes. Sydney would be in critical condition. Danny would be in a neck brace. Beau would be tortured by nightmares. Brett would wish he could have done something.
Gagnon would plead not guilty. His attorney would struggle to get everything he could thrown out, then switch to a plea of no contest against all reasonable evidence. Gagnon’s family would bitch and moan here for days, right up to the appeal. Then the friends… so many of Gagnon’s friends would argue unintelligibly, too blind to consider so many lives lost weighed against their missing drinking buddy. How pitiful.
If you have family, give them a hug. If you have a friend, thank them for lasting another day. If anyone tries to drive drunk in your presence, beat them until they can’t drive or the police haul you away. Make a difference and save a life. It’s 2 years later and it stings the same. It burns with the same fire, the anger just won’t step away. It will be like this until the day something takes the memories away.
Driving Drunk is attempted murder. Driving Stoned is attempted murder. Doing both is both suicidal, thoughtless, careless and unconscionable. If you’ve ever driven drunk, make sure it will never happen again. If you ever find yourself driving drunk, stop and sleep it off in the car. End this. Just end it.
I really can not believe some of the things posted on here, does being drunk give people amnesia? NO, so he would have been well aware that driving after drinking so much was dangerous. He made a choice to drink that much, he made a choice to get in his car and drive, when he had the option of asking someone to take him. Therefore his actions are inexusable, he knew the risks and still got in that car, turned it on and turned it into a lethal weapon. I do not care what type of person he is good, kind and caring, christian or not what he did was a result of his own choices made by his own mind, what kind of person thinks it is ok to drive when they have had enough to drink to make their blood alchol 3 times the limit? A bad person, a person who doesn’t care about harming other people, a person who only thinks of themself. As for his friends and family defending him, are you kidding me? You think what he did is defendable and thus don’t think what he did is wrong. If it were one of my friends, and there have been occasions where I have had friends who have brought their car and considered drinking after having a drink and I have flat out told them that if they did I would never speak to them again and report them to the police myself, because it is stupid reckless and cruel to get in a car while intoxicated knowing what the results could be. If my child were to drink and drive then I would be the first to tell them they should be in prison and IF they were to harm or kill anyone let alone a whole family as a result then I would not be on here defending them, I would be sending a very heartfelt appology to the family, and wondering where I went wrong as a parent.
My deepest sympathies are with the family and friends of the Griffins who tragically lost their lives, at what must be an extremly hard time of year.
That was supposed to be “considered driving after having a drink”
Its’ been two years since the Griffin family was torn apart by the carelessness of one individual who didn’t hang around people with common sense.
A parenting site where Bethany and her family were much loved (and still are) are torn apart evey December. They are torn apart every year that Vadie’s birthday passes. Or when Bethany’s birthday passes by.
I don’t care if Gagnon is upset over what he did; he had a choice. The Griffins didn’t. Now, every year, they have to be reminded of what’s missing around the Holidays. They have to fall apart during a time that should be filled with love and happiness. They have to visit graves instead of houses. They have to leave flowers and tears instead of gifts and laughter.
Hi, I’m Tito. I love spammers and am here to show you how much suck at life. I’m as intested in your offer as I am testicular cancer and will never ever seek your services. I’m also sure you are as adept in pleasing people as Continental Airlines. Keep up the posts please as I love being a sarcastic asshole. Have a good day. :)
bows in humble worship of all that is Tito.
Dang. This guy is cute. I can’t wait to corn hole him in prison.