Michael Gagnon
On December 30th, 2007, 24-year-old Michael Gagnon, a construction worker, almost single-handedly wiped out a family heading home to their residence in Maryland after spending Christmas with family and friends in Michigan.
After drinking himself into a stuporous 0.254 blood alcohol level, Michael Gagnon left the party at the Rodeo Bar and Grill, for no good reason.
His family had three rooms rented at the Holiday Inn that the Rodeo Bar and Grill shares a parking lot with, and he could have stayed there quite easily.
But Michael Gagnon really wanted some Taco Bell.
So, despite the fact that there were designated drivers at the party, such as his pregnant sister, he left the party to go and get it, hopping into his brother’s black 2005 Ford F350 pickup truck that they used for construction work and heading on down the road to the nearest Taco Bell.
You have to be pretty drunk when people working at Taco Bell notice that you’re too plastered to drive, but that’s exactly what happened as Michael Gagnon drove through the drive-through.
If you click over to the right a little, you can listen to the 911 phone calls made by a few of Michael Gagnon’s fans that night.
What would have been an easy drive for a sober man was made extraordinarily complicated by Michael Gagnon’s drunkenness.
Only Michael Gagnon knows what was going through Michael Gagnon’s head at the time, but he missed the turnoff for the interstate to head back to the party and continued along until he saw, swerved towards and drove onto the wrong on-ramp – a maneuver that makes perfect sense when you’re sitting at a blood alcohol level three times the legal limit.
He might even have gotten away with the maneuver if the on-ramp that he drove onto wasn’t, in fact, an off-ramp.
Michael Gagnon drove about four miles down the wrong way on the highway before he smashed into the 1999 Chevrolet Astro minivan that 36-year-old Daniel G. Griffin Jr. was driving his family home in.
This photo pretty much explains what happened.
Michael Gagnon’s brother, Samuel Gagnon, whose MySpace profile can be found here, felt something was wrong and called Michael Gagnon’s cell phone. Michael answered the phone and said, “Sorry, bro.”
Yeah.
Eyewitness accounts say that both drivers tried to avoid a head-on collision, but that the passenger door was basically ripped off it’s hinges as the full-size Ford pickup truck ran into the minivan.
As the minivan was ripped open, an assortment of stuffed animals, toys, luggage, gift wrap and baby blankets flew over the highway, along with several of the children who were riding in the minivan.
The injuries were pretty much what you would expect. Broken bones. Massive head trauma. Death.
Less than 10 minutes after Michael Gagnon left his little party, he had managed to kill the voting majority of a large, happy family.
What makes it worse is that when police arrived, Michael Gagnon was belligerent and completely uncooperative, fighting with the paramedics who were trying to treat him and screaming at the firemen who pulled him out of his brother’s truck.
The only remotely positive bit of information I can find about this incident is that it happened at a time of night when most of the kids would have been asleep.
Who did Michael Gagnon murder?
Well, mom Bethany Griffin died. She was 36. Her MySpace page can be found here. 10-year-old Jordan Griffin died too, along with 8-week-old Vadie Griffin. 10-year-old Haley Burkman and 7-year-old Lacie Burkman, Danny Griffin Jr’s stepdaughters, were also killed.
Danny Griffin Jr. survived, although I’m sure he’s none too happy about that.
Michael Gagnon? He’s fine – just had a minor jaw injury, five counts of aggravated vehicular homicide and a $1.25 million bail. Don’t worry about him.
Does Michael Gagnon deserve Hell?
- No (28%, 480 Votes)
- Yes (72%, 1,255 Votes)
Total Voters: 1,734
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546 Comments »
You hypocrites! Everyone deserves hell (read the Bible), and this little turd was only doing what all of you taught him to do (i.e. think only of himself at all times regardless of the circumstances because hey God loves me any way).
You need to know that each one of those who died in that vehicle “accident” is in hell right now.
The only thing you should be worried about is when you will splash dive into hell.
Read these verses, repent, obey God and shut up your hypocritical mouths:
Lu 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Lu 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Job 8:13 So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hypocrite‘s hope shall perish:
Thank you!
The fact is it’s all well and good to have memorial websites and myspace pages to the victims but untill we have change in this country with how we deal with drunk drivers it’s all just memories to people with more to come. The victims that have survived should use their stories to help make a change so others will not just become another sad memorial on the internet.
Wow, won’t you all be surprised when you find out there is no god, no heaven or hell…..we just rot in a box you wierdo’s! Do you believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy too???
Atheist, you may have a point there.
But I have to disagree about Santa. Santa IS real. I saw his picture! His real name is JOHN CANTRELL.
Now, what else do you have to debunk?
I read what ‘Michelle’ wrote in the ‘hate mail’ column regarding Michael GAGnon. He brought this on himself and MURDERED these innocent people. Get real Michelle. YOU are an IDIOT! Had this been YOUR family killed like this, I imagine you’d be writing another hate mail condemning the drunk driver to hell.
Are you from Westboro Church? Cult that goes around protesting? If so, you suck and if not, you still suck.
It is the whacks from WBC. Abi is short for Abigail and Fred Phelps has a daughter named Abigail. Four of the 13 defected because of abuse.
Abi you are so full of crap your eyes are brown. You are obviously a fundie who has been brainwashed since birth with all the myths of the
so called “holy book”. Did your parents feed you pages of the bible in your cereal? When are people like you going to wake up and
start showing some intelligence. The world is at a loss when such stupid ideas are being used as reason. How can mankind advance when your type of imbecilic views are believed? Please do us all a favor and shut the f***K up.
In response to Abi…you’re a moron. How can you say that all of those innocent victims are in hell. In my opinion we are in hell now with all the horrible things I read about everyday. I have to believe that once we leave this god forsaken earth that there is a better place in store for us. Especially sweet innocent child victims. As for the drunk driver – I feel for him as well because he will have to live with their blood on his hands for the rest of his awful life, even though it was an accident.
Mark 10:14 But when Jesus saw, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
10:16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
Ooo, the kids are in hell, huh?
Watch out who you quote scriptures to. There might not be many here, but there is at least one Christian who won’t allow you to talk out of your neck. Yes, we all deserve Hell, yes many will not accept Christ, yes repenting is a part of Salvation, but I do not believe that God would sentence a 8 week old baby to eternity without His Grace. Infants and young children do not have the capacity to accept Christ as their personal savior and confess aloud their choice and thus be saved. (Romans 10:9)
Thank YOU
It seems that if someone who had the morals of Joe Horn was either at the party with Michael Gagnon or working at the Taco Bell MAYBE the Griffin family could be at home right now reading about how some vigilante assaulted, shot or killed someone who did not harm anybody, but because of his high BAC (Blood Alcohol Content) became a victim of a vigilante.
Instead everyone around Michael Gagnon did what they should and nothing more – they called the authorities. I am not blaming the authorities – they can NOT be everywhere policing everyone all the time; instead I blame the courts because if anyone had used any type of force to stop this POS, they’d be criminals!
We need more Joe Horns – people that not only know what is right, but will act upon such.
Abi – I do not have a Bible infront of me, but I do know that somewhere in the Bible it says “by your fruits you shall be known”, I am fairly certain that the children now in a place far beyond evil’s reach. As far as Michael Gagnon goes – he COULD go to heaven, but given the facts of the story, espcially the fact that he was belligerant after doing what he did, it’s a safe bet that he’s going to the place of eternal torment. When was the last time you went to a pear tree to get an apple?
Whoa!
One of the Phelps family commented. Bizarre.
They’re famous for something, I think. Can’t think of why at the moment, but I’m sure it’ll come to me, or I’ll be reminded.
Unless I go to Hell from now until then, of course.
OMGoodness, I thought that was them. Westboro Church is where they are from. They protest everthing and Fred Phelps their leader is gay :-)
I think Fred Phelps is a repressed gay man and needs to lash out. I mean seriously, why is he so fixated on homosexuality?
Westboro Baptist Church is really out there. They should have an entry here at PYSIH.
Fred Phelps has a daughter named Abigail Phelps and Abi is short for it. It does sound a lot like them.
ha ha Phelps is an ass. Maybe if he was there, you know at the Taco Bell he would’ve knocked soem sense into Michaels head with one of his “God hates Fags” signs. ha ha.
as far as the family is concerned I feel bad for them. I’ve been buzzed at times just driving a few miles (I know it’s a no-no) however I think I would know if I was going the wrong way on the freeway. However having a BAC that high, I don’t know if I’d even know which pedal did what.
Abi you are the worst kind of sick bastard there is. How dare you even inference that those sweet beautiful children are now some how rotting in hell? The type of hate you have spewing forth from your vile contemptible pea sized piece of a brain will surely snare you a special spot right next to the devil himself. That woman was kind and intelligent and a fantastic mother, neither she nor any of her family deserved to die or to be injured in that horrible accident, but I would gladly cheer if they were to replace them all with only one. YOU
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Do not talk about the eternal fate of people you do not know.
You don’t know where their hearts were.
Feel free to judge when you are perfect.
You call everyone else hypocrites? Look at your own actions and words. You are the reason people look down apon Christian. Your actions give people who follow God a bad name.
Lord help you, because you surely aren’t helping yourself.
I assume Abi includes himself in his “Everyone deserves hell”.
Be Seeing you Abi!
i think abi is just trying to piss people off!!Hes a dead motherfucker…
So an 8 week old baby is in hell? Funny because I know for a fact Bethany and her family were a Christian family. You and your WBBC lunatics need to get some mental help.
If we are all going to hell, I’ll see you there because I honestly doubt that you are exempt from that.
Well, WBC said Pope John Paul II, 9/11 Victims, and Mr. Rogers was going to Hell.
I love this site but I really can’t stand how everything has to be so religious. UGH. It drives me crazy absolutely crazy
so with that being said people take the whole “going to hell” poll WAY to serious. It’s just entertainment. Hell we can only bring someone in and take someone out in this world, not necessarily decide what happens to them after the fact.
It’s all fun an games. Ya’ll need to understand that!
Who’s “ya’ll”?
I have no issue with the little poll.
I have issues with the idiot psycho from WBBC saying that my friend and her children are all going to hell without knowing them or what they are about.
that’s who the ya’ll is. Not the few of us who seemingly can stay away from bible verses and understand that it’s strictly entertainment.
First I want to applaud Whit and tell Abi that he/she is a complete idiot. I feel so bad for this family. No child ever deserves to die, and for something so stupid. Why didn’t someone at that party take the dude’s keys? The brother for instance? This “accident” could have easily been prevented and its sad that alcohol ends so many lives. Its alcohol for crying out loud. It tastes bad and you feel like crap the next day. So not worth it. I hope he thinks about those children every day of his worthless life.
Wow, I didn’t know Charles Mansen was out of jail and a christian now?? Hey Abi, I don’t often say this about people I don’t know but your a f*cking asshole!!!!! How dare you say those innocent children are in hell!!!??? Oh, and by the way Mr./Ms. “high and mighty”, if you are such a God fearing person why are you not respecting the 1st commandment (thou shall have no other God above me).. that means you are NO ONE to judge so you shut up and repent because I don’t think Christ will appreciate you saying an 8 week old baby deserves hell…. your probably one of those idiot extremists who blows up abortion clinics right?? get a freaking life and I certainly would not want to be YOU on judgement day… you are just a bad as that drunk driver and you give good-hearted Christians a bad name!!.. I hope you don’t have kids because I am sure you are poisening their minds just like yours is poisened… Oh, and FYI, we didn’t teach him to get drunk and drive he did that on his own, watch what you say because I, for one, was hit by a drunk driver in my car and almost died myself so in closing I would like to say F*CK YOU ABI and why don’t you actually go to a normal church (with no special punch) and learn a thing or two about our Lord!!!
Actually I think Mr. Manson is a priest or something up in prision. I think that’s what I heard. If I’m wrong, correct me but he is some kind of religious figure.
Helter Skelter
I can’t help but to throw that in any time that Manson is mentioned. It’s like a trade mark.
Caressa…
it tastes bad going down and coming up.
so this Brittany chick thinks that Bethany and her family’s death at the hands of this jackoff is entertainment? Fuck you bitch go give Abi a lap dance on an electric chair
ha ha. no I said the voting and polls is entertainment.
I don’t give guys lap dances either let alone give anyone lap dances. I purely like to receive them.
If you look at the other post I don’t think anything as far as what happens to the families is entertainment. Just the polls.
Who the fuck do you think you are putting words into my mouth? Wow…you’re a real winner.
I hope this guy rots in hell for a very long time.
Most of all I hope the knowledge of what he has done haunts him.
What a beautiful family my prayers are with you!
This was such a horribly tragic accident. As a family member of Mike, I feel horrible for the victims and their family. I do not think Mike will go to hell. He is a great person. A christian himself. He is living is own personal hell right now. Yes he was beligerent with the authorities, but that was the alcohol. He made a HUGE mistake and he will pay for it for the rest of his life. I know first hand what kind of person Mike is, and he would give up his own life to bring them back. I wish there was something I could have done, but he left without any of us knowing. As much as our family thinks about how we could have changed things, its too late. I will probably never see Mike again and for good reason. May God have mercy on him when it is his time. I am positive that the victims are in heaven now and just may forgive Mike for his mistake. You can be a great person all your life, it only takes one mistake, one HUGE mistake, and your dammed forever. God Bless!
Abi-
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree corrupt and its fruit corrupt; for the tree is known by its fruit.
Luk 6:44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.
So, as I said earlier……..
I’m sorry for any family members of Mr. Gagnon, but I have no sympathy for him whatsoever. He made a series of choices, each more boneheaded than the previous and as a result, a family is destroyed. As a Christian, he had better be on his knees begging God and his victim for forgiveness. He should be kept in a cell decorated with life sized photographs of his victims. Drunk drivers are a huge pet peeve of mine. I can’t think of a more senseless and avoidable tragedy. If you are at a party where someone is getting this out of hand, car keys should be confiscated and not returned under any circumstances until the next day. Are you honestly telling me that no one recognized how sauced this guy was? Why did the staff at the bar allow him to get that way? Where I’m from the server or bartender could be held personally liable if they have overserved and something like this happens. How did none of the sober members of the party not catch him taking off? This level of intoxcation isn’t exactly subtle. There are many fingers of blame to be pointed, but the bottom line is, this guy chose to get in a vehicle that wasn’t his and make a run for the border. His choice, his responsibility and he should have to spend the rest of his sad life atoning.
He should be forced to have the victim’s pictures in his cell for the rest of his life as well as being forced to make presentations to colleges and high schools about how one night of drinking can destroy your life forever
I can’t stand drinking and driving. It’s like shooting a gun at random and acting surprised when one of the bullets hits someone. There have been many times when I have been drunk, hell, there have been times when I could barely walk from it. But not once did I loose sight of what was right and what was wrong. I can’t stand it when someone uses drinking as an excuse for idiocy.
Abi…It still amazes me that there is always one dumb fucker that spews out verses from the Bible when a tradegy like this happens. What fucking denomination are you affiliated with that would have you believing the bullshit you wrote ? Put that Bible down boy and get on your knees and thank God that none of us know where you live. And please..do us all a favor..if you find someone stupid enough to ever have sex with you..wear a condom…there are too many dumb fucks in the world already.
I knew this story was going to make it here. Michael Gagnon definitley deserves Hell.
There is no excuse for driving drunk. It’s such a shame that this innocent family perished and that scumbag survived. He should have been the one to die.
Gagnon family: You provided local hotel rooms and designated drivers. What you missed is giving drunk people the chance to make the decision to drive. Drunk people don’t make good decisions. The designated drivers should have had all the keys. No drinking person should have access to keys. That’s part of drunk driving prevention.
I was brought up in a very strict BAC household. I believe the bible has many prohibitions against drunken-ness.
That’s one thing I don’t like about the BAC religion… that no matter what you do, you’ll be forgiven. Pretty much it means you can do every shitty thing heathens do… but you’ll still be forgiven and get to go to heaven… while the heathens who do the same things will not.
No matter what a great xian his family/friends think he is, I will not be surprised when it comes out that this is not the first time Mr. DUI was 3 times the legal drunken limit… just the first time he massacred a family because of it. Gotta love xianity… you can make the same fuckups over and over, and as long as you ask god for forgiveness, everything’s a-ok. What a great religion.
When it comes down to it, who the eff cares what religion someone is, as if it excuses the things they do? Everybody wants to call themselves xian nowdays. I prefer people who are no religion at all, who are consistent in their morals, and don’t wipe out whole families with their drunken-ness.
I would imagine that whatever hell this loser DUI guy will go to when he’s dead can’t compare to the hell the surviving dad/stepdad is having to live in right now.
c
his cousin owns the bar…im sure it wasn’t the first time he was drinking more than he should. the bar is a party playground for kids under the age of 21. The owners, three YOUNG men, often have allowed girls and boys underage drink there. As a customer, I have seen many drunks leave the place..When you have 21 year old owners laughing at how drunk they can get a customer, it is no suprise this incident happened. i am sure Mike was a good christian, but i have no tolerance for drunk driving. I like the point that was said this probalby wasn’t the first time he drank and drove. Its just the first time he was caught…
maybe it wasn’t the first time he was caught. maybe it was just the first time that it was fatal.
I loathe you religious nut-bags, heaven and hell is all made up to make money off you suckers. Donate 20% of you pitiful monthly check to the church, what a load of shat.
As for M Gagnon, let the living members of the Griffin decide his fate and punishment.
ha ha ha ha…thats a good one Ed.
Oh hey…looks like I was right.
The AP said “Gagnon’s driver’s license has been suspended multiple times after he failed to provide proof of insurance or registration, and he has had two speeding tickets since 2002, according to the Michigan secretary of state’s office.”
That’s close enough.
First of all as a family member of Mike, I can tell you that all of us our praying for the Griffin family members and friends. This is hard for all of us! It was such a horrible accident! But he does not deserve hell. And who are any of you to wish that opon someone. THAT IS GODS CHOICE AND HIS ALONE! None off you know him obviously. He was a good guy, that mad a horrible choice. I am sure he won’t need to picture of them in his cell, b/c I am sure each of their faces are implanted in his brain for the rest of his life! He is not the only one that has made the choice to drink and drive. People do it everyday! Let this be a lesson to everyone. Never drink and drive. And as for blaming our family. I think we are all doing that on our own with all the what ifs that are imagainable. It was no one elses fault. He didn’t have his car their! He didn’t have keys to take away.
as a close member of mikes family, i know that he is EXTREAMLY EXTREAMLY torn up about this. mike would do anything for anyone. everyone makes mistakes and he will and has learned from this experience EVERYONE HAS! He is not some WACK JOB that woke up that monring and when on a killing spree this is an ACCIDENT A TERRIBLE TRAGIC ACCIDENT! AND FUNNY you say he had his DL taken away MULTIPUL TIMES, try once and that wasn’t for anthing but not payin a FEE!! not for anything else, thats right a FEE!!!! Mike is very much a family man and if anything was to happen to him w/ the reverse he would not act the way you people are acting. and as for blameing the family, i understand that you all feel that you have to balme someone for this but there is only one to blame and that is Mike, he only blames himself, we had no idea that he left and as soon as we did we were freaking out and looking for him cause we did have rooms to stay in. and as for the guy that goes on about blameing the bar i notice that you YOURSELF SAY YOU GO THERE REGULARLY, so you must be sober as can be when you leave THE BAR right? i understand what happened is terrible and dont think for one second that our family is not COMPLETELY DISTRAUGHT over this. Mike is the most responsible, caring, thoughtful, respectful, christian, person who has done alot of great things before this. and we love him and always will, he is our family, and i you guys can go on “BASHING” him if it makes you feel better but let me tell you this, the only people that DESERVE TO GO TO HELL, is no one, we are all god children and he will help us in our toughest time.
“THOSE W/OUT SIN LET THEM CAST THE FIRST STONE…”
god bless….
everyone makes mistakes?? you’re right… they do. I’ve made a million.
I forgot to brush my teeth a time or two.. that’s a mistake, i cheated on a math test once in Jr. high, that was a mistake, i got a really bad haircut once, that was A HUGE mistake, i’ve gone to work sick before when i should have stayed home.. mistake.. yeah, everyone makes millions of mistakes. Here’s what i havent done… killed anyone (by mistake), gotten in a car to drive home when i’m drunk (becasue… i’m a fucking adult and know that i don’t have the faculties to do so)
Getting shit faced drunk, getting in a car and murdering 5 innocent people is not a mistake… It’s not an “oopsy” – it was a choice… he CHOSE to murder those people. The second he got in that car, got behind the wheel and started to drive he decided he wanted to kill people. Now there is a god fearing stand up citizen if i ever saw one.
Hell is too good for this POS. he deserves to survive the the death of the 5 people he loves most in this world. And then live and long long life locked in a cell with nothing but his thoughts to keep him company.
Its people like Micheal that make me sick. Almost my whole family was slaughtered by a stupid stupid man. If he had any sence at all he would know better. and as far as casting the first stone. haha too late you just did that so here is a stone right back, He is a huge POS that does not deserve forgivness. Hate me if you want but I could care less right now. I have delt with his kind before not a happy ending. so may he rot in pieces someday.
ABI,
As far as religious i was brought up Christian but did not remain so. So i guess take it how you want it. I am a very open person when it comes to religion I do not descriminate against other faiths and beliefs so I’d appreciate if you didnt descriminate against mine. And for my own protection I will not disclose mine. and may the WBBC burn down
I loathe you religious nut-bags, heaven and hell is all made up to make money off you suckers. Donate 20% of you pitiful monthly check to the church, what a load of shat.
As for M Gagnon, let the living members of the Griffin decide his fate and punishment.
ED SMITH WE WILL SEE YOU IN HELL
hey I was just going by a source.
I understand you’re his family but wtf? have you seen the pictures from the accident? Have you seen the van? the presents all over the place?
I blame a few people. Obviously Mike himself. Then there’s the supposed designated drivers who should’ve took ALL the keys but didn’t. Then ofcourse there’s the cops and if you do enough research online you can see the multiple phone calls made and the 26 or so minute laspe that could’ve prevented this. I’m not saying it would’ve but it could’ve and it didn’t so I blame the responding officers as well.
As a computer programmer, i do not program every waking hour of the day. I cook, eat, bathe, watch TV, drive, spend time with my wife & daughter, etc…
Mike is now known for his DUI killing of many mebers of a family – something that he does not do every day, but something that the surviving members of the Griffin family will have to live with every day.
At my class reunion, the food was so-so at best. I got soo wasted on 4 1/3 of the best Alabama Slammers ever! I was so trashed that I dare not even walk across the street to Denny’s & my hangover was so bad that I did not drive the next day – even though by then my BAC was legal.
Point is – I have been where he was and it was not impossible to make the right choices…
As far as drunk people and judgement – how many times have you either been a total asshole or picked up or been picked up by a total asshole when drunk? Driving requires judgement – that is why my 12 year old daugher does not have her licence yet – despite the fact that she’s probably smarter than most of the people behind the wheel.
Sure Mr. Gagnon is a nice guy to some people, but to the surviving members of the Griffin family he is a selfish killer – period!
Anonymous – if Mile is such a wonderful person, why didn’t anybody say “You are too drunk – let me go for you” or “I will drive you”
Were you all too drunk?
Or is Mike an asshole at times and noone care what the whiney selfish soon to be a killer bastrard wanted this time?
Or are all such a bunch of selfish bastrds that you did not care about Mike (maybe hoping that he would hit a pole) or anyone else, caring only about your good time at the party?
There are people who found Hitler to be a nice guy as well.
yeah i did britney and, i understand, HOW CAN YOU EVEN COMPARE HIM TO HITLER? you cant.
we didnt know he left, it was packed, we turned our head for a min, adn he was gone. we didnt say “hey MIKE see you later, oo wait heres one for the road” ARE YOU SERIOUSE!! PLEASE! we WOULD HAVE NEVER EVER EVER let him go, THATS WHY WE HAD ROOMS, if you are goin to use “REPORTS” get them straight adn dont use BIT ADN PIECES.
and your right let the living members of the Griffin decide his fate and punishment, they have and they have forgave him, as best as they can. the only people that can judge him is THAT family so everyone needs to come off thier god complex, because you all are not god.
“THOSE W/OUT SIN LET THEM CAST THE FIRST STONE…â€
agian god bless
We havent forgiven him yet !
I don’t remember anyone comparing him to Hitler.
the reports did say there were 3 rooms rented to the Gagnon family. the reports also said that the rooms were checked out Monday morning.
i give him credit, he swerved to avoid hitting the van, but instead side swiped it throwing the baby, and carseat and other children from the car.
oh and we know we’re not god. i couldn’t be. i’d beat the shit out of people like mike too often given the opportunity. and believe me i know i’m not without sin.
i’m a lesbian, ex-drug addict, who smokes cigarettes. i don’t take my sundays to do nothing unless it’s recouperating from the hangover the night before and i like to spend my money on strippers. oh and i used to have a stripper pole in my apartment. yes i know i’m not without sin, but i haven’t been so irresponsible as to drive while that intoxicated like Mike and well my father. at least my father didn’t kill anyone.
oh i see the Hitler reference
Mike’s family:
It wasn’t an accident.
Everyone:
People keep tossing around “God Bless” and “also a good Christian”.
Being a Christian doesn’t in and of itself make one any better, or worse, than anyone else. Driving drunk is a pretty big step in the ‘bad’ direction if you ask me.
Anonymous:
This is America. We have a constitutional right to throw stones.
as someone who knows former alcholics I know he didn’t set out to kill anyone. It is a disease and unlike many of the POS that we’ve seen featured, he is far less of a monster than many others on this site. Having siad that, five people including four children are dead because of his actions and choices. He has to face the consquences for that and if it comes to having to do forty years in prison, than so be it. May god have mercy on his soul.
Ah, I think I understand now. Because Michael was a “Christian” and a “good person” who made a “wrong decision” that automatically excuses what he did. Shame on the family of the deceased for wanting justice!
With the poor “logic” some of you have, it’s a wonder why there’s even laws against driving drunk, or any other crimes. Hell, as long as you’re a Christian, who gives a shit, right?
Not too sure I care that Mr. DUI has ‘learned from this experience’. I try not to learn my life experiences at the expense of other people, especially dead children and moms. I also try not to give other people ‘learning experiences’ by my selfish actions… such as learning that people who drive drunk are assholes, as the father has been forced to learn.
Mr. DUI has not forever lost 4 children and his wife, so I have little pity for him.
____________
Rich-
“It wasn’t an accident.
People keep tossing around “God Bless†and “also a good Christianâ€.
Being a Christian doesn’t in and of itself make one any better, or worse, than anyone else. Driving drunk is a pretty big step in the ‘bad’ direction if you ask me.
This is America. We have a constitutional right to throw stones.
Great comments.
_______________
I personally am suspicious of the story that Mr. DUI was shitfaced drunk, but craved Taco Bell so badly that he swiped keys and then swiped out half a family.
Drunks are usually barfing, not jonesing for fast food… sounds more like he was suffering more from the MJ munchies, IYKWIM.
I think xianity has gotten so watered down that every Tom, Dick and Mr. DUI are automatically considered xians by default, no matter that their actions clearly prove they are not.
The only accident here is that the poor family weren’t delayed by a dirty diaper or something, so they’d miss this carbomb. But then, no doubt it would just have ended up with someone else dead instead, eh? Some other unlucky victim. Ever notice how the almost always kill the other passengers, but rarely die themselves?
c
What a goddamn tragedy…(oh no i said the ‘god’ word) anyway, for those of you interested, the victim’s family has a memorial page set up (you can link from her myspace) were you can donate whatevee, if you’d like. Sorry i don’t remember what the actual url is, but i know you can use your paypal to send donations also, to “bethanyandtheangels@gmail.com”
What a goddamn tragedy…(oh no i said the ‘god’ word) anyway, for those of you interested, the victim’s family has a memorial page set up (you can link from her myspace) were you can donate whatever, if you’d like. Sorry i don’t remember what the actual url is, but i know you can use your paypal to send donations also, to “bethanyandtheangels@gmail.com”
glory…
i know lots of people who get the munchies when drunk. at least my friend does. i guess that’s just one person other than Mike. but my friend is a lame ass and doesn’t have a license and drive so he won’t be swiping any families out any time soon.
does anybody else see a Richard Ramirez resemblence? it’s erky.
They have the right idea in Canada:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/01/04/bc-drivethrucops.htm
There are two types of drunks:
Ones that will drive while intoxicated and ones who won’t. The ones who won’t drive after a single beer generally won’t drive after twenty beers either.
Not only does Gagnon fall into the latter category but he must be an idiot to boot. How do you drive 4 miles down the freeway in the wrong direction and not notice that something is amiss?
Drinking yourself to .24 BAC when you have a wife and kids at home already makes you an irrisponsible asshole regardless of how many designated drivers you have at your disposal. Many, many people have died from less drinking.
I just keep looking at the photo of that car seat in the road and I’m speechless. Gagnon is lucky the cops had enough restraint not to throw him into traffic to give him a taste of his own medicine and save us all the cost of prosecuting this waste of space.
My intention was NOT to compare Mike to Hilter, but rather to show that even the worst POS *IS* likeable by someone.
And yes, Christinity is way watered down. By today’s version of Christainity Jesus Christ himself would be considered a rude trouble maker, to say the least!
Being Christain (to me) is *NOT* about being nice, it’s about being good and trying to do the right thing.
Christains, being individuals, will disagree on what the right thing is.
So Anaon – Mile grabbed the keys and slipped out. He did not ask permission. He knew that he was doing wrong, or atleast something that would piss one of you off. I suspect that he’s driven drunk before, or atleast buzzed as to have enough confidence as to plan to drive over 4 miles and use a highway as well.
While alcoholism is a disease, unlike cancer, if an alcoholic does NOTHING, (as in NOT drink) the worst thing that they have to deal with are cravings or the DT’s. A cancer victim doing nothing suffers and dies.
whoa…. a lot of opinionated people out there… and a lot of harsh words for something that doesn’t even personally affect most of you….
a few said that they have “been sooo drunk before, yet they were able to make good decisions” (paraphrasing) but i have to disagree, perhaps you weren’t sooo drunk. have any of you blacked out before? alcohol shuts down your central nervous system, so if one were to drink sooo much (without dying from alcohol poisoning first) i guarantee that you would be zombified. you may be walking, and talking, but you’re not really there. i can say this from experience, as i’m sure many of you can as well, though you may not care to admit it. losing control is a frightening experience.
this whole thing is a tragic mistake, and nothing
more. there is no reason to point fingers. mr. gagnon made a grievous error, one that he will have to live with for the rest of his life.
my heart goes out to both families involved.
devil’s advocate (now i’m gonna look like an asshole): why was it that this family was unable to avoid collision? as in, if so many other individuals were able to avoid hitting mr. gagnon, and phone the police to let them know that this guy was driving like a jack-ass; was there something that perhaps may have distracted the driver of the van? there were 6 kids in this car, yes?
I KNOW THAT MR. GAGNON WAS DRUNK AND THE COLLISION WAS HIS FAULT.
“one that he will have to live with for the rest of his life. ”
Um, yeah, that’s probably what has a few people miffed. That he has a ‘whole rest of his life’, since 5 other people do not, because of him.
And, you are wrong about it being the victim’s fault because they somehow were not able to get out of the drunk POS’s way.
It’s the victim’s fault because the dad was not a deadbeat, and was returning his kids after visitation. If he had just abandoned them like he should have, there would have been less children asleep in the van to be ‘distracting’ the driver. Sleeping children are annoying that way, eh?
It’s also their fault they weren’t richer so that they could have been driving a Hummer. Or flying in their private helicopter.
Gee, that looks pretty stupid when written down.
Putting salt instead of sugar into the batter when you’re making pancakes is a ‘mistake’.
Killing over half of someone’s family because you spent the day getting drunk in your cousin’s bar (where cops find drugs/needles in the filing cabinet…do xians usually spend all day partying and hanging with drug users?), then snagging your brother’s keys because getting a .99cent Chalupa is more important to you than avoiding slaughtering a man’s wife and kids….
Mistake? Not so much.
I’m glad you’re so kind as to allow your heart to go out to BOTH families. I seriously doubt that at least one of those families does not consider all of this to be just a sad, tragic mistake. I’m guessing they’d think it was something else altogether.
c
c
from what some of the news reports stated the van was rounding a curve of some sort. poor kids
I do not wish to respond to all the religious talk about this particular article. Instead, I would like to just say that for the first time on this site, I voted no to hell. Why??? Because as far as I know, this was not an evil man, just a stupid man, who made a stupid mistake that thousands of people do daily, including I’m sure many of you. I’m sure he didn’t think he was too drunk to drive, and he never intended on killing that poor family. He will live with this all his life thinking about those he killed. I just hope that he stops drinking at this point, and makes a positive change in his life.
And I do feel those children are definitly with God in Heaven.
I’ve made some pretty big mistakes in my life, but I’m pretty sure I’ve never drove drunk and wiped out a family.
To the Family of Michael Gagnon
I’ve read your grammatically incorrect and horribly inappropriate apologies.
“The sudden and devastating loss of such innocent lives, those that did not have the chance to make much of an impact upon those outside of the immediate family, is a loss of unbearable tolerance.”
I’ve read your claim that this was merely an “accident” or a bad “decision,” but I think you miss what this really was. I think you need to get this through your heads before another member of your clan kills someone like your brother Michael did.
This was not an accident. Not in the eyes of the law and not in the eyes of anyone else involved. Your brother has had more than a few problems with responsibility, hasn’t he?
He couldn’t pay his car insurance on time, yet he found plenty of time and money to drink. He had his license suspended, and be honest, the last time he drove drunk, you said nothing. His relationships, you looked the other way when he floundered around. His college grades, what were they like again? And he wanted to be an Architect? Seriously, how were his math grades?
Let me tell you about Bethany. Bethany was the sort of mother who worked, went to school to be a nurse and still found time to hand sew Lacie’s Mermaid Princess costume for Halloween. Her favorite food was Crab, and she could reel them in with net or string. She was a Ravens fan to distraction and she made purple cheerleading outfits for Lacie and Haley, as well as Ravens witch outfits for them when the big tailgate parties were on.
When I found out that everyone but Dan was asleep in the car, I sighed with a very small amount of relief. They never saw your brother kill them and their suffering was probably brief.
You talk about “standing by” Michael and where your prayers are, but you need to get off your knees for a moment and think about what really needs to be done. Michael should prepare a plea of guilty and ask for the maximum sentence possible. It will save Dan, Jodie and Jack all of the trouble of coming to his trials and sentencing. Perhaps Michael can write a book in prison that will help keep drunk drivers off the road. Who knows, he might find some sort of useful thing to do in lock up that he never would have found drinking and taking steroids(that’s what human growth hormone is used for) at your cousin’s bar.
But to weigh his life against those of Haley, Lacie, Jordan and Vadie, simply because they’re young? To measure Michael against Bethany? Learn from his mistakes and repeat after me.
“This was not an accident; this was entirely Michael’s fault. He committed 5 murders, as surely as if he had pointed a gun at the horizon, fired randomly and killed five people. Michael should plea guilty and save these families a great deal of pain and suffering.”
Perhaps your entire family should take a lesson in responsibility and where it should be placed.
Get a life jason,everyone knows about you!!!
Knows what about me?
That I’m a Computer Programmer in North Carolina, was a friend of Bethany and Dan’s?
Have the facts on your son?
Precisely what is it you think should make me ashamed of who “I” am?
If this really is Clara Gagnon your focus should be on slowing down the effect Alcohol, Marijuana, and Clenbuterol have on your own family and by extension the people they kill with their use.
Yes I heard about this terrible incident all the way over the other side of the world. No I will not call this an accident as it is not an accident.
To Mikes family member was it an accident that his brother allowed him to take the keys to his truck?
Was it an accident that his pregnant sister (how would she feel having her baby leave the life it was just brought into) didn’t take all the keys to all the vehicles of all the people who were drinking that night.
Was it an accident that Mikes cousin allowed him to get so drunk but not provide food in a Bar & Grill to prevent the need to go and get food.
As far as I am concerned everyone of Mikes family who was at that bar and the people serving the alcohol at the bar should be charged as an accessory to murder.
If you know you are going to party til you are that drunk (obviously you knew when you booked 3 rooms of the adjacent hotel) Then the keys should have been removed from every person who walked through that door as they walked through that door or made to hand over their keys with payment of or in exchange of their first alcoholic beverage.
How do people not know that someone has taken your keys and walked out of a bar? The excuse the bar was too crowded is lame surely there is a legal limit to the amount of patrons. I am guessing the pregnant sister was too tired and the stupid ass brother handed over his keys to the moron mike.
There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for what this Moronic asshole did. This was no accident he made the choice to leave that bar. He made the choice to get in that car. He made the choice to drive drunk. He made the choice to go down the off ramp. He made the choice to continue travelling the wrong way. As someone else said he had 4miles to realise that it wasn’t the other drivers going the wrong way. He made the choice not to pull over and turn the car around. See NO ACCIDENT all choices. This Guy deserves life sentences for every life he took by choice. Every person involved the designated driver, the owners of the bar, the brother, the family who were so negligent the did not notice he left, the people who served this asshole so much alcohol he was 3 times the American legal Limit & 5 times the Australian legal limit all deserve the minimum penalty as I believe they were as much as fault as he was.
Would be very interested to hear the answers to my questions Mikes Relative. You seem to make a lot of excuses for this moron but how bout some answers as to how this was allowed. When his sisters baby is born ask her how she would feel if someone like her brother were to come along & take that precious life from her & next time she may just consider to get off her fat pregnant ass & do the job she was assigned to do.
I also believe that this asshole should be tortured for everyone of the innocent lives he so senselessly took. I personally would love to carve everyone of the victims name in to a part of his body and have him suffer through every cut.
The Judge will be reading this,careful,talking about cutting a person up,sounds like murder to me
The Judge will be reading this and all this talk about cutting someone up sounds like just talk about cutting someone up. Seriously, lady. Get your head out of your ass.
I am a close friend of the people that died at the hands of the drunk driver.
To the sister: SHUT UP. We don’t want your lame apology, we don’t care who he is. It means NOTHING. You and your friends are enablers. He was responsible for the crash. You are responsible for him having keys in his pocket. What kind of people would let that happen?
YOU MAKE ME SICK.
Guess what,we all now about you too,and you are not a family,so know one cares about your comments.The Lord knows eveyones heart,so remember that!!!!!!!!
Everyone cares about common sense, which you are clearly lacking. Living in denial must bode really well for you and your family. How is that working out for all of you?
Keep praying, you’ll need it. Do some good with what you have left of your pathetic life. Instead of enabling and preaching stupid why don’t you join M.A.D.D.? You could then speak the truth on how your kind enables death and work against. Your God will then ultimately save you. For your son, you should work towards something productive rather than scouring the internet trying to defend a wrong.
For the record, you wouldnt know “family” if it bit you in the ass.
Seems to me that mother here knows about everything and everyone…except the truth about Micheal.
Jason-
I think you’ve said it better than anyone else could.
c
hey GloryHole, never heard the term devil’s advocate before? great job missing my point.
Jason – “This was not an accident. Not in the eyes of the law….”
wrong, it was. that’s why he will be charged with vehicular MANSLAUGHTER. it’s tragic, yes; but this was not premeditated. he will be tried by the state, and the family of the victims need not be there. if they press civil charges, then yes, but not otherwise.
if this bothers you, then i suggest you write to the governor ohio and/or it’s state representatives to change the current law.
Just by looking at Sam’s myspace, you can see how white trash their family and circle of friends really are. Fuck that piece of shit Mike and fuck his fucking family. I could care the fuck less what the Gagnon family is going through at this time, beacause all those ’statements’ coming from them seem a bit too unauthentic.
Only god can judge.
Everything happens for a reason, and it is not ANY of our places to put judgment on someone who is no better than we are ourselves.
My heart goes out to BOTH families.
How many people do YOU know that has drove drunk? Gotten into a drunken accident, or an accident of any kind under some substance?! How many people do YOU know that has died from drunk drivers?
Stay strong.
We will always love you back home.
Some Gal – “wrong, it was. that’s why he will be charged with vehicular MANSLAUGHTER. it’s tragic, yes; but this was not premeditated. he will be tried by the state, and the family of the victims “need not be there. if they press civil charges, then yes, but not otherwise.
if this bothers you, then i suggest you write to the governor ohio and/or it’s state representatives to change the current law.”
“(A) No person, while operating or participating in the operation of a motor vehicle, motorcycle, snowmobile, locomotive, watercraft, or aircraft, shall cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another’s pregnancy in any of the following ways:
(1)(a) As the proximate result of committing a violation of division (A) of section 4511.19 of the Revised Code or of a substantially equivalent municipal ordinance;”
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2903.06
and
(A)(1) No person shall operate any vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley within this state, if, at the time of the operation, any of the following apply:
(a) The person is under the influence of alcohol, a drug of abuse, or a combination of them.”
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.19
It makes the crime 1st degree Aggravated Vehicular Manslaughter, which is by absolute definition under Ohio State Law, premeditated. Do you see the word Accident there? Nope… the reason why is because Accidents are lesser charges.
I’m a computer programmer in real life, but I was and still am a friend to Bethany and Dan until the day I die. I’m not a lawyer, but I am an American citizen with as much right and responsibility to read the laws of the states I work in and visit.
I don’t need to write to the Ohio State legislature to get the laws changed, they already changed them in 2002 and again in 2005 because murderers like Gagnon kept on killing people in their state.
Drunk Driving is not an accident. It is machismo garbage, wrapped up in a defiance of law, alongside a self-destructive side that usually takes lives with it.
-Sarah R
“How many people do YOU know that has drove drunk? Gotten into a drunken accident, or an accident of any kind under some substance?! How many people do YOU know that has died from drunk drivers?”
Judging from your sentence structure, you may in fact be a member of the family or more specifically the sister, who has across the internet been defending your brother with these religious quotes.
Our legal code, despite opposition in Congress by some, remains a secular establishment of rules that protect us from people in this world, not the next. Many who fight the inclusion of “Under God,” and the establishment of 10 commandment monuments in legal halls, don’t do it because they are Godless heathens, but because it would open juries to hearing defenses based solely on “Only God can judge.”
Luckily, our juries can be protected from this tripe for a little bit longer. Christ did not free the thieves he was crucified with, he tried very hard to convert them. The application of law was not his justice, but a postmortem that saves the immortal. Perhaps you have already heard from Michael’s lawyer that you should rush to his defense and stand strong, but what you’re doing is defending his crime, not merely the person and that is not right.
Jason, I am forced to agree with much of what you have written.
Dismissing the crime as ‘a mistake’ does nothing so much as devalue the lives of the victims, which further infuriates those of us who are friends of the Griffin family.
Mr. Gagnon made a series of choices that led to him (a) committing a crime and (b) as a consequence of that crime, killing our friends. No amount of “He’s really devastated.” or “He’s really a good guy.” is going to alter that.
When he is sentenced to prison, as well he should be, his family will have yet another excuse to hold yet another alcohol splashed gathering and lament about how “Life’s not fair!”.
As an ex-cop and a former judge, I agree, life isn’t fair. If life were fair, our friends would still be alive despite Mr. Gagnon’s miserable choices of that evening, he and the hundreds of other drunken drivers would injure none but themselves, but, sadly, that isn’t the case, is it?
And Abi? You’re scary….
Someone wrote about the fact that Gagnon got 4 miles down the highway before he hit the Griffin family. A good question was posed – the fact that other people were able to avoid Gagnon.
Maybe someone was ahead of Griffin and this person avoided Gagnon, but unfortunately for Griffin, maybe he saw Gagnon too late as a result.
Maybe Griffin would have gotten by Gagnon if Gagnon did not try to avoid the accident as well, if one went to his left and the other went to his right, the evassive actions of both put them on a second colision course (when I am looking at you and you at me, my left is your right) with no time for a redo
Someone mentioned a curve – many of the curves on the highways can look deceptive at night, so I look atthe lines in the road to verify that the road is curving verses a colisin coarse with a wrong way driver
Also wrong way drivers are so rare that maybe it took Griffin a few too many seconds to register what was really happening (esp if there is a curve involved)
I hope that the Gagnon family’s bar is SHUT DOWN! I hope that they find new jobs in which they have no authority or respnsibility for the health or safety of any breathing being. Let them grow corn – to me the real thing that they are most sorry about is the fact that they know that they are liable for what happened and know that their future as a bunch of drunks with theur own bar is in jepardy.
Thus blaming Dan Griffin makes about as much sense to me as blaming the people who were located in floors above the point of impact in the North Tower of the Trade Center for their own deaths. Wrong place, wrong time
I’ve read over these post and I would just like to point out a few things. I have a very close circle of friends. We normally go out once a week and get pretty drunk. Everyone either works or goes to school during the week, so on Fridays or Saturdays we all get together, complain and drink lots of alcohol. This has been a ritual for almost a year. We have never, not once, got behind the wheel after drinking, and we have never not once gotten into a car with someone that had been drinking. We designate a driver, or we call a cab. And our driver, always..always..takes away keys. And our favorite bar is always packed, and if I see one person missing from our little group, I am immediately searching. That’s the honest to goodness truth. We take care of each other. I don’t blame Mike’s family for what happened, because if Mike was supposed to be “so responsible” he wouldn’t need someone to baby sit him, right? WRONG! He did need someone to hold his hand and tell him he couldn’t leave. Doesnt sound like a very responsible person to me. And as I said before, I get pretty drunk, and I still know never to get behind the wheel. Never. Oh and..an accident is when a sober person gets into a car crash and kills someone, this wasn’t an accident. This was a choice. A choice that Mike made himself.
Jason-
Wow you touch on a LOT of really good points. It’s needed. You know fact and bring a lot of common sense like a few of us; yet at the same time don’t blast the internet with religious words. Some things that are left out from the illiterate human beings on this site who seemingly and constantly defend these POS like Michael.
On the other hand as far as the bar being closed: I’m sure that if it’s not closed it will be losing a lot of business over this. I mean a LOT.
I’m sure he’s going to have civil lawsuits, but the county might need to be careful to. 26 minutes is a lot of time to respond to a call like this. I mean 4 miles and it took them 26 minutes. I know that (if I was family) after I was done dealing with Michael and a civil suit with family pictures all over the court room I would probably see my chances at something towards the county/state. I’m sure how it would go but I would do it in a heartbeat.
Jason- thanks for the info, but you need to separate your emotion from your logic. yes, ohio law is very strict in its OVI/DUI law, but what mr. gagnon will officially be convicted of (perhaps i should not have said charged before) depends on how stringently the court responds to his case.
“Impairment due to alcohol or other drugs may be used as a partial defense. This occurs if the defendant is charged with murder or voluntary manslaughter and the defendant’s impairment level is so high that it affects the defendant’s intent to kill. When this happens, murder and voluntary manslaughter may be mitigated to a lesser crime, like involuntary manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide.”
http://definitions.uslegal.com/v/vehicular-homicide/
as this case has been reported on a global scale, i believe that the court will be under close scrutiny, and will impose its full authority (as well it should), but one cannot deny that mr. gagnon was over three times the legal limit, and by all means, was out of his mind.
to touch on the infamy of this incident once more; if mr. gagnon had slammed into a van of mexican migrant workers, or a convict transfer, he would hardly have received this much attention. the fact that he destroyed a family is what made this a media sensation – this being said, why should one person’s life be more precious or valuable than another’s?
Ron B – “his family will have yet another excuse to hold yet another alcohol splashed gathering….”
a former cop and judge, eh? would hate to have been in your court. i’m sure you’ve seen allot of dirt bags in your day, but that is no reason to make presuppositions. his family was holding a new years party, correct? as i reckon, those such gatherings are fairly commonplace in this country.
Some Gal-
I’ll assume you just made a typo in your classy response to me.
When my sons pissed their pants when they were little, it was an ‘accident’. This was not. Nice try, though.
If this gets off on ‘manslaughter’, it’s still manslaughter, otherwise it would be called ‘3rd degree accident’, or something like that.
If it was really an ‘accident’, that would be something like…… he was not drunk, he was driving the speed limit, and his brakes failed through no fault of his own. Then, no matter how many people he killed, he would not face any charges, because it would have been an accident.
The fact that Mr. DUI is facing any charges at all speaks directly to his culpability in the matter, no matter how you want to word it.
I also doubt the bar will be open very soon, given the drugs that were found in it.
c
“some gal on January 7th, 2008 1:16 pm
Jason- thanks for the info, but you need to separate your emotion from your logic. yes, ohio law is very strict in its OVI/DUI law, but what mr. gagnon will officially be convicted of (perhaps i should not have said charged before) depends on how stringently the court responds to his case.”
Mr. Gagnon has been officially charged with 5 counts of Aggravated Vehicular Manslaughter, which is surprisingly only covered in the 2 items I posted above. It’s a First Degree, Premeditated crime punishable by fine (probably waved due to no income) and up to 10 years of prison time per count. It is entirely separate from “accident” law which he can actually be convicted of entirely separate from the 5 listed counts. In addition, Gagnon can be cited for resisting arrest, interfering with a medical aid worker in the performance of their duties, fleeing the scene of a crime (Taco Bell; a stretch but while you’re whipping a dead horse, pile it on), Reckless Driving, Reckless Endangerment (remember those people he passed?), and a host of other laws, misdemeanors and infractions of the law.
Your legal dictionary is a useful one, except where specific state law supersedes it. I thank you for your efforts to make yourself more plain, but I assure you that since making my post, I am now researching this with every resource I have available, including my own legal counsel.
While you are correct that Bethany’s Death along with the death of her children is eating me alive emotionally, I retain a hard core of logic in this endeavor that is both persistent and thorough. My instinctual motivations might be to consider anyone related to Mr. Gagnon as an enemy who must be destroyed, but my more civilized manners recognize that only Michael and his enablers are to blame.
As to “out of his mind,” the burden has shifted in legal circles from one where his altered state can provide protection from punishment to one of a statement of intent in his actions being required. Why did he drink to such an altered state?
His level of intoxication is often times considered suicidal, which means he didn’t care what he did or who he hurt. That lends itself to negligent homicide, don’t you think?
As to the attention Gagnon’s crash has caused, I urge you to recognize something. If I had known one of your hypothetical migrant workers or convicts as well as I knew Bethany, I would have still been here slamming him and his family members for defending him as hard and with as much force. Your argument is illogical, his life was not worth Bethany’s and the others, it was not worth a van full of migrant workers, it was not worth a bus full of convicts. His actions were only worth his own death, absolutely no one else should have been killed because he chose to drink too much and get behind the wheel.
As to your comments to Ron; Ron is another one of Bethany’s friends. One who just so happens to revile me because of my normally, extremely liberal demeanor(despite all outward appearances in this argument), but with whom I have sparred on legal, theological and social grounds to the utter frustration of each. That completely aside, his grudging agreement with me is exactly what it seems: The opinion of a former judge and police officer who knows what they’re talking about.
I’m not arguing over anything but textualism here. The words are what they are, Gagnon’s actions are what they are, and Bethany and her daughters are dead.
If you’re an attorney, can provide me with the opinion of an opposing viewed attorney or officer of the court, or are able to unearth some aspect of law or case law that refutes these points, I would greatly appreciate it. While I am not helping the family in the preparation of their own legal efforts, this and donations and emotional support are the only things I can do.
some gal –
when you take a families life from a choice you made you’re life is fucking worthless thus far. If my dad had killed someone when he got his DUI I don’t think I could forgive him and hell he’s my DAD.
certain situations call for certain judgements and therefore some peoples life more valuable then people like this.
I don’t understand how they’re are some lawyers who actually try to get people like this off the hook. them and murderes.
murderers*
–Brittany
“I don’t understand how they’re are some lawyers who actually try to get people like this off the hook. them and murderers.”
I don’t deny him his right to legal counsel.
I just counsel him to be just and choose the maximum sentence possible when he pleads guilty.
I do not deny his family the right to speak on his behalf and attempt to apologize.
I refute their feeble attempts to voice those concerns and belittle the crime or argue for an alternate venue (God’s rather than this world’s).
As to what sort of Lawyers can try this, I have an answer because I have met two different types.
The first type is an honest, strict Constiutionalist that believes that the defense must use every method possible to obtain the victim’s freedom, regardless of guilt, else they cannot serve as effective counsel. The crime is smaller than the crime committed against the Constitution and the law if they fail to give the accused the best defense possible.
The second type is dishonest, is willing to do anything for money and/or the thrill of the win. The attraction of murder cases and those involving death is that the accused has the greatest to lose so the gamble is a greater game to them.
I can respect but despise the first, but the second can only be despised.
fair enough.
Gagnon, gag on this, and enjoy your stay in hell.
You too Abi.
Phelps, funny!
I literally hope he gets assfucked for the rest of his life in prison. He deserves NO LESS.
You can battle it out in legal terms- here, and eventually in court, but nothing is going to change these facts:
One person, who chose to drink, and then chose to drive illegally intoxicated (has any panel come back to show if he’d partaken of the bar’s drug stash?), refused to stop driving when other people pointed out his intoxication, and ended up taking out over half of a family….all because he thought getting himself food from Taco Bell was more important, and he couldn’t wait to let some sober family member get it for him.
I’d like to see the receipt for exactly what he bought at that Taco Bell, so that I could see exactly how much he thought this family’s lives were worth. Does anyone know this info?
I’d also like to know why he couldn’t have gotten his Chalupa, eaten it in the parking lot and promtly passed out, as most decent drunks would do. The fact that he continued to insist on driving tells me that Mr. DUI was very used to being drunk, to the point of the type of alcohol tolerance that bypasses they normal passing out or barfing.
I have read that drunks only get caught driving a small percentage of all the times they’d previously driven drunk before. Not to mention, they often drive drunk many times after they’ve been nailed for it.
Nothing against drunks. They can be amusing. When they stop being amusing, you take their keys. I have hidden people’s keys at my house before, and I have called them cabs. I used to work as a cocktail waitress, and when I saw people shitfaced, if their keys were anywhere visible I would put them behind the bar and force them to taxi home.
My ex’s whole family are drunks. Which can be amusing at family get-togethers, since they all sleep over and don’t drive. The ex, though… not so much. He’d slug back 6-8 drinks in a couple of hours and then insist he was ok to drive. I remember one big fight after an office xmas party where he was insisting on driving the hour home while shitfaced. I was 7 months pregnant and sober, but he wouldn’t let me drive. I refused to get in the car, and booked a hotel room in that town to avoid it. He ended up sleeping in the car. There’s a reason he’s an ex, eh?
Luckily, all his years of alcohol abuse trashed his kidneys, and he had to have one removed a couple years ago. Now he can’t drink without getting sick, which makes me breathe easier thinking about our boys in the car with him.
Drunk drivers suck. Think of all the heartache Mr. DUI could have avoided for the family he killed, as well as his own family, if he’d have just spent the few bucks on a taxi. Pathetic.
c
jason – i genuinely appreciate your rational response. but you (and brittany) misinterpreted my analogy involving the media sensationalism surrounding this case. gagnon killed a middle-class white family after leaving a new years party; if he had killed a bus load of convicts/migrant workers in june, the media would not have caused such as stir as they have, and i’m sure this site would not have made him a target.
*shrug and sigh*: we all know the statistics, at any given point in time there are more drunk drivers on the road then you could shake the proverbial stick at, and some of these dd’s inevitably and regrettably cause such fatal events that befell the griffin family.
it’s no secret that our news outlets deliberately pick and choose the most tragic stories to feature, and this incident happened to fit the bill in a timely fashion.
leading me to this: to those who wish ill will upon gagnon and family, why focus on this guy when there are so many “evil” drunk drivers out there?
Obsessive-compulsive haters – here’s a real winner for you: Clinton Haskins
cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/03/earlyshow/contributors/tracysmith/main671470.shtml
prohibition will never work, even today in dry counties people still find a way to get their drink on. people do drugs, people kill other people; there is no utopia on this planet.
so what are we to do? we create a police force and a legal system to deal with those people who just don’t give a f*ck (or made bad decisions) in a just and appropriate manner.
you may not believe this (and i don’t care either way) but my best friend was killed while riding in a car driven by a man on drugs, with a suspended license. i was very angry and distraught for a long time (especially due to the sentence the driver received). my advice to you – let go of that anger as soon as possible. do something constructive with it; join a local MADD chapter and share your story, try and make an impact. i know others here have been quick to dismiss religion, but just think on this – no major religious association (excluding satanism) promotes carrying a grudge. life is suffering, let it go; forgive and forget, etc. what goes around comes around, and if gagnon doesn’t get what’s coming to him from our justice system, i’m sure he’ll get it by some other means.
put your rational hats back on and stop trashing his family. this same thing could happen to anyone of your children, cousins, aunts, uncles, and so on (and don’t even think for a second that it isn’t possible).
be careful what you put out there, it all comes back.
oh, glory – “manslaughter- the general term for the killing of a person by another is homicide; murder is either the intentional killing or malicious killing of another; manslaughter is the unintentional, ACCIDENTAL killing of another through carelessness.”
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/manslaughter
don’t argue semantics with me.
Thank you!!
Some Gal-
“but you (and brittany) misinterpreted my analogy involving the media sensationalism surrounding this case. gagnon killed a middle-class white family after leaving a new years party; if he had killed a bus load of convicts/migrant workers in june, the media would not have caused such as stir as they have, and i’m sure this site would not have made him a target.”
You don’t have a handle on all of the facts here. Gagnon killed Bethany and her daughters on December 30th, at 11:00 PM (the article above is mistaken) at a Christmas party where 40 members of Gagnon’s family were partying at the bar. The Bar is owned by his cousins.
The Bar was raided by police where they found steroids, human growth hormone, syringes, over $15,000 in receipt-less cash, and what may be a vial of GHB.
The vehicle used in the assault (look it up) was a 2005 F350, that if bought the day before the crash had a value of $18,635. In his court appearance, Michael claimed a salary of 300 dollars a week, so a judge would provide him a public defender. Samuel Gagnon stated that he and his brother both worked in construction.
The family has engaged the services of Richard “Rick” Sanders of the legal firm of millercanfield dot com .
Their website programmers are apparently morons or not security minded, so if you put a percent sign in the lawyer search field under name you can get a listing of every lawyer in the firm (This is an opening for a SQL attack and should be closed, as it means this is a direct interface to their SQL server based on a LIKE statement and could be used to tie up and destroy their website). The page goes on and on. The file I pulled has over 100 names, but more importantly it lists Sanders specialty. Sanders does not have much case law or legal review to read, but his primary specialties are Litigation, settlement and appeals. We estimate his hourly at 1000 dollars an hour.
This is an expensive firm for a family that has claimed economic hardship in their “public apologies.”
The apologies followed the so called rule of three of modern marketing. The general appeal (the brother’s apology), the impassioned appeal (the family’s apology, championed by the sister) and the guilt appeal (brought forth by the mother of the accused). They were in rapid succession, put to several newspapers, and are a standard defense lawyer practice to get family opinions stated as facts in newspapers so they can then be submitted to juries as supporting evidence.
Now, let’s move on to the sensationalism aspect of this. I make no bones with you that a mother and 4 daughters being killed by a Drunk Driver the day before New Year’s Eve, is going to make national news. I even don’t begrudge you the racial aspect, except that I know who Bethany was.
Middle class, outgoing, friend of hundreds, if not thousands and able to maintain most of those friendships at an extremely high level of personal contact. Her friends include people scattered across more than 30 states and varied specializations, race and income. If this hadn’t made it to the national news within minutes of it happening, it would have been there within days, not weeks anyway. I hope I’ve provided enough valid, verifiable information to make this one unsupported boast, but Bethany was loved by many people, and in this world of interconnections those people know people by relation or proxy who know everyone else in this country.
Michael didn’t kill the President or a Hollywood elite, he killed a working man’s equivalent. A rock star of her home, PTA, church, and civilization. I admit there’s a force multiplier in publicity when you add Vadie to the equation, but seriously this was a special person with massive appeal. If a Migrant worker had the same connections, you’d still be seeing an outpouring of anger and grief that would stretch the imagination and have you searching for the angle.
The details above prove nothing, they just promote conspiracy theories and a growing sense of mistrust built on extremely passionate and real anger. Add thousands of people who miss their friend to the families and friends of those thousands and you start to get a stirring, boiling attitude looking for more and more answers.
Again with the manslaughter quote, I need you to think very carefully about what the word means when added to “Aggravated Vehicular.” Law is word smithing and semantics. The modifier means as much or more than the object. A method used by some is what is called subtractive definitions. Programmers use it when they code and sculpt an object. You take something that is known and you constrain it or add to it, thus deleting specific “words” in the definition of the object. It’s a function of logic and so has an analog in Legal terms. Aggravated subtracts out Accidental and a few other things because it is the combination of the crime that was committed plus some other crime or series of crimes that makes the crime compositely more severe. Don’t believe me? What’s the difference between Assault and Aggravated Assault?
To stress, I’m not trying to slam you, call you stupid, or even to make you personally feel bad, but I am trying to make you abandon your faulty position and see that the definition is outside of the scope you’ve chosen to embrace. I would prefer you be my “friend” in this, and thus become a friend of Bethany as the facts of this case continue to unfold. I understand the appeal of the Devil’s advocacy, but there’s far fewer ways to read this than you originally suspected, correct?
correction
I said:
“You don’t have a handle on all of the facts here. Gagnon killed Bethany and her daughters on December 30th, at 11:00 PM (the article above is mistaken) at a Christmas party where 40 members of Gagnon’s family were partying at the bar. The Bar is owned by his cousins.”
it should have been, after he left a Christmas party where 40 members of his family were partying at a Bar and Hotel.
Additions:
The family claimed to only have rented 3 rooms for 40 people, the sister-in-law claimed to be the designated driver but did not have the keys, and the bar claims to be a grill, yet Michael went 528 yards down the street for Taco Bell, and then started on his way back the wrong side of the highway towards the same cut-off he would have used to return to Adrian Michigan where he was staying.
admin – nice catch – article above has been changed to reflect the proper date. Thanks for pointing it out!
To the admin,
Thank you for the article. It’s very cathartic for me to dump all of the facts I’ve been collecting on a public forum. If you’d like a few more pieces I can give them to you.
Bethany and all of the kids were asleep, it really is one of the only ways I can sleep at night these days.
Jacob was the name of the Taco Bell drive-thru attendant who called 911 to get Gagnon off the road. If Gagnon’s actions will send him to hell, then Jacob’s actions deserve a place in Heaven.
The Taco bell was 528 yards away from the Rodeo Bar and Grill, door front to door front. That’s about 3.6 blocks. A right and then an immediate U-Turn would have put him headed back to the Rodeo Bar and Grill. He headed for the interstate. If he was going the right direction on the interstate he’d have been on the correct course to return to his home, 2 hours away in Adrian Michigan.
Dan was rounding a corner. There was no way he could see Gagnon.
Some gal- You are wrong about many things.
If some drunk POS had killed a van full of migrant workers, we would still be on here saying what a POS he was, even if the media did not make such a fuss about it. Who the people are that he killed is not as important as the fact that he killed 5 people.
And, I will argue semantics with anyone that I feel is twisting facts around to try to fit their slant, unless it is the admin and they ask me not to.
While I’m out ‘dealing with my pent-up anger’ in a more useful way (according to you), why don’t you go out and vent your obvious anger with people who don’t share that anger somewhere else, since I think that would be more healthy for you. Maybe I consider getting people like you to rethink their opinions on drunk drivers and other crimes, especially their soft take on relatives of POSs to be my way of being constructive.
In case you hadn’t guessed yet, this IS what some people think is a healthy and productive way of dealing with our anger, and we are intelligent enough to join up with MADD if that’s how we wanted to deal with it. But gee, thanks for all the useful suggestions.
Sheesh.
It seems to me that in order for something to have been an unintended death resulting from carelessness, one would have to not know that one’s carelessness could result in said deaths. Just because it was not premeditated does not mean it was accidental. Any moran could figure out that driving shitfaced drunk against the traffic on a freeway is likely to cause someone’s death.
The second the POS got behind the wheel, drunk, the ‘accidental’ part isn’t applicable. And if you want to rant on about legal technicalities, why don’t you save your breath? After all, this site asks people to vote on whether people should go to hell- that should clue you in a bit.
If bars can be legally held responsible for serving/allowing drunks to go on rampages, then famiy members, especially those operating and partying with said drunks, serving and not keeping them from driving, should be held responsible also. Maybe when people start thinking they actually have responsibility to other people to stop them from drunk driving, or abusing/molesting people, there will be a decrease in these stats. Putting your head in the sand, saying nothing can be done about it, saying it’s all a sad accident, looking the other way and not wanting to cause a ‘fuss’ about it isn’t going to help anyone at all.
Jason has the right take. More people should read what he says instead of all the drunk driver apologists.
c
Jason- Something is not right about the Taco Bell thing. Other people/blogs have brought up how close it was to the bar- just a few blocks.
Have you heard anything about the possibility that he wasn’t trying to go back to the bar at all? That he might have been headed somewhere else? Any word on any other calls besides the one where he told his brother ’sorry’?
c
I cannot believe that there are so many people willing to come to the defense of a person who caused such a horrific accident. It would have been horrific no matter the color, gender, or economic status of the victims. His being intoxicated was not an accident, he is an adult who made the decision to drink to the point of excess. He may not have intended to hurt anyone, but his actions that night did nothing to prevent this tragedy.
I am even more appalled by the fact that some have even tried to blame the other driver for not “avoiding” Gagnon’s car. Well, I stand corrected! There must be a lot of innocent perpetrators in jail because their victim didn’t “avoid” the bullet that killed them, or “avoid” the knife that stabbed them. Nonsense!
Gagnon committed more than one crime that night, and he now faces the consequences. Just because a crime isn’t premeditated doesn’t make it less of a crime. The law may separate it by degrees, but it is still a crime.
As to Gagnon going to hell: that will depend on how he deals with what is to come. However, it has been my experience that few people who drink and drive only do it once.
jason – yes; adding “aggravated” to a charge does change it completely. the definition i posted was meant to clarify the term for glorybug, as she did not know the meaning.
you’ve reiterated your point for the third time, and i got it on the first sir. as for choosing sides? i think i’ve made myself clear; michael was in the wrong, and i don’t dispute that in the slightest! however, you need to recognize that what he is charged with may not be what he is convicted of. again, i’m sure the court will not go easy on him; but like it or not the high bac defense is still a valid defense, not to mention that he has no priors. letting his license slip into suspension for not paying a ticket will in no way adversely affect his standing on this charge.
“As to “out of his mind,†the burden has shifted in legal circles from one where his altered state can provide protection from punishment to one of a statement of intent in his actions being required. Why did he drink to such an altered state?”
don’t you think that his lawyer is well aware of this? michael is obviously not going to plead guilty outright, so i’m sure that he and his lawyer will come to the best defense possible. as to the quality of his lawyer, i’ve read some articles too; michael’s father is retired, and his mother is a beautician, not exactly millionaires. you get what you pay for.
“The family claimed to only have rented 3 rooms for 40 people, the sister-in-law claimed to be the designated driver but did not have the keys, and the bar claims to be a grill, yet Michael went 528 yards down the street for Taco Bell, and then started on his way back the wrong side of the highway towards the same cut-off he would have used to return to Adrian Michigan where he was staying.”
this is precisely why the high bac defense may be in play. would a rational person have made the same decisions as gagnon? no! and as i’m sure you’ve read, he stole a family members keys to go to taco bell; the $18,000+ truck wasn’t his vehicle, and he didn’t even have his there. as to bringing up the value of the vehicle, as an adult you should be aware that anyone with decent credit and some money down can lease a car with a value close to that (or more) on his wages. i don’t know what kind of car he drove, but if he was trying to start his own construction business, he may have put more of his income towards a decent vehicle, as this could help him make a better first impression. you can’t fault him for that.
i don’t know how he lived, or his family. i can only make assumptions in this matter, like your acquaintance ron; i just try to be a tad less judgmental, for lack of a better word. there are some sure fire rotten people on this rotten website, but i don’t think that this guy deserves to burn in hell.
we have no crystal ball, so no one can say for sure one way or the other how this will turn out.
i’m sure the advice i’ve gave in the latter 1/3 of my previous post fell on blind eyes; the wound is too fresh for you, and my words must feel like salt. but i hope that whatever the outcome you and the griffin family can find solace.
this site is awful; it focuses on anger and hate, and those are two things this world could do with a little less of. you want to learn about the kind of nasty people that are out there? check out the fbi or interpol’s most wanted, or turn on the news. i wouldn’t reckon a site like to bear much credibility. i was temporarily sucked into a vortex of ridiculous, and won’t be back here again.
We’ll miss you.
Some Gal – I’ll admit it may have not made such headlines if it was a van full of migrant workers…the difference?
This was a van full of fucking kids! Not because they were white but because it was children and amongst those children was an 8 week baby.
I’m sure if you didn’t know Michael (like you sound like you do) you’d be right on board with the rest of us.
If you don’t know him then maybe you’re crazy defending him and what have you but nonetheless he did what he did and the people enforced to stop him by being the designated driver failed at doing so. Therefore by the choices he made and reactions that took place he is an evil person. He didn’t have to drive and his family didn’t have to let him. There should’ve been extra precautions and there weren’t.
“Some Gal” you are an idiot. I’m glad you won’t be coming here anymore.
To GloryBug regarding the distance.
I’ve looked at the Google maps satellite image of that stretch of road. Looks like there’s a sidewalk from the bar to the Taco Bell. The Rodeo was a bar and grill, did they run out of food? Why did Michael need food or was he getting some caffeine for the road? Maybe the Kitchen closed at 10:00 at the bar?
And then I ask myself, was he on Alcohol and GHB. Was that unidentified jar, GHB?
As to the other tangent. Maybe he said his good byes. Maybe Samuel gave him the keys and said so long buddy, we’ll drive up to Iowa together. Maybe it was his intention to go home to Adrian all along. Maybe there were dogs to feed or something.
They had three rooms registered to them.
They had 40 people?
Some of them weren’t staying at the hotel… right?
This is speculation. This is conspiracy. This is where I actually feel the least comfort. Facts, I have a lot but I don’t know these details.
YOU PEOPLE ARE RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have known Mike for 10+ years, and he does NOT seserve to die, rot in hell, to be hung. I can’t believe you… Do you know him? Do you know what kind of man he was before any of this happened? NO I DON’T FUCKING THINK SO. People fuck up, and obviously since you all think that you are perfect you may think that you haven’t fucked up, but you have… I guaran-fuckin-tee it. I can’t believe the shit you people are saying about him. Michael is a good man. He has a great heart. He made a bad choice, and yes he should have to pay for it, and he will. In jail, and in his heart. He will have to live with this for the rest of his life. Killing 5 people, because of a bad decision he had made. And yesbeing that drunk, he probably didn’t know what he was doing at that time. No that doesn’t give him an excuse, but you people don’t have to make him out to be a monster… Good lord. It could have been any one of you, your son, your husband, ANYONE.
see we’re not saying he’s always been a monster but since he put the keys in the ignition he is a monster. plain and simple.
I agree Ashley….it could have been anyone that night it just happened to be Mike. Mike is a great guy, would do anything for anyone and all you so called Christians that are wishing bad things upon Mike….what kind of christian are you? We all need to just Love Mike and forgive him. God says that we should love everyone no matter what even our enemies, afterall are all God children. Jesus also tells us that sin is sin….no sin is worse then another in his eyes and who are all of you people to judge when in the end the only one who can judge is God. Yes I feel just aweful for what happened to that beautiful family but friends and family of the Burkmans sound so forgiving and they are praying for Mike and Loving him too….so why can’t all of you people see the light? We all need to forgive Mike for what he did….God has already forgave him afterall he died on the cross for us so our sins could be forgiven….come on people!!!! God Bless everyone involved.
oh man…i think I see the light!!!! ha ha ha ha
since we’re on the religious talk I always thought that Jesus on the cross was kinda S&M
ha ha ha ha JUST KIDDING! NO OFFENSE
brittany,
i am not going to say anything bad about you….i will just pray for you.
growing up teaching sunday school and summer camp then being ruthlessly dismissed and shunned down upon for being gay kinda has me bitter towards bible thumping christians.
I wasn’t serious about the s&m thing believe me there’s worse I could’ve said but things I wouldn’t have meant.
Ashley said
“No that doesn’t give him an excuse, but you people don’t have to make him out to be a monster… Good lord. It could have been any one of you, your son, your husband, ANYONE.”
Seriously? You think it could be a teetotaler? You think it could have been someone without keys in their pocket before they started drinking?
You think it could have been anyone?
“Mike is a great guy, would do anything for anyone and all you so called Christians that are wishing bad things upon Mike….what kind of christian are you? We all need to just Love Mike and forgive him. God says that we should love everyone no matter what even our enemies, afterall are all God children. … We all need to forgive Mike for what he did….God has already forgave him afterall he died on the cross for us so our sins could be forgiven….come on people!!!!”
Wow… throw open the doors to Charles Manson’s cell! Somebody give me a Shovel so I can “apologize” to the remains of Jeffry Dahlmer!
We revile your friend and brother because someone has been making the same mistake he has since before the first Ford rolled off the line and was sold to someone who would drink and drive. Someone else is going to do it again and end up the same way or worse. You tear your clothing and defend Michael but forget that by doing so you protect the crime with the criminal. You plead with us to let God judge him when that implies that God killed our friends with your brother as some kind of instrument? Do you truly deny free will?
You rant and you rave but you’ve never read the words of Christ if you missed the damn point this badly.
Matthew 36-40
36″Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37Jesus replied: ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
I would hate myself if I killed Bethany, Jordan, Haley, Lacie and Vadie as much as I hate your cousin, friend or brother or what have you. I would call myself a monster. Christ does not pardon us in this world, he pardons us in the next. He’s not here, remember?
You come here and curse me and everyone else here, but you accept none of the responsibility. Are you going to stop drinking so much? Maybe try to be a better designated driver? Maybe it’s time for you to give up drink?
You yell and say “He’s not a monster,” and I say to you, you’re making him a monster more than any of us. You’re implying that God is a monster, more than any of us. I’m not angry with God, because he does not force us to drive drunk. It’s a decision we make, first to drunkenness and then to defy laws.
And I repeat:
Christ did not pardon the thieves on the cross, he begged them to confess their sins so that they might be reborn. If he had meant no secular judgment, he’d have cut them down while he stayed up on the cross. I think it deplorable that they’d hold the Grand Jury on the day of Bethany’s funeral in Baltimore. I find it deplorable that you’d curse everyone because they don’t see your “golden” opinion of Mike, but nothing Mike ever did or even the sum of his whole life was worth the value of those 5. Nothing.
Brittany,
“growing up teaching sunday school and summer camp then being ruthlessly dismissed and shunned down upon for being gay kinda has me bitter towards bible thumping christians.”
They missed the point Brittany, I hope you didn’t, and I don’t think you did.
If I’m wrong, then at least you can keep my wife and I company when we finally find out.
I don’t understand? the point of what exactly?
Brittany,
Those who shunned you didn’t get the point.
The point of loving and treating your neighbor as yourself.
Oh yeah. I find that to be true in a lot of “Christians” Gay people are bad and going to hell! rwar.
It’s like F off
I can’t stand those bible bearing religious advocates. They are a bunch of hypocrites and it drives me crazy.
the brothers myspace is set to private…hmmm
(just looked at the myspace)
If I could fucking kill Michael myself I would. I would do it in the most toturous ways absolutely possible.
he better be sickened by himself. he should have to fucking stare at pictures of that baby.
Boy Oh Boy,You saying your going to kill my son,The Judge will be reading this too.I will be reporting you Brittany,thearting to kill my son.Jason probley knows the legal term for this.And yes,my spelling is bad.I hope you relize that this statment you made is horrbile.When this is all over Michael will be able to say things,he isnt aloud right now,he cant even look at his family in the court room.What happen was wrong and my son will spend time in prison . And the Prison in his mind will never go away for the rest of his life.My prayers are always with the Griffins and Burkmans Families.
Please, I hope the Judge gets to read every word, including those spoken by Michael’s “Supporters.” The ones who think that alcohol is a viable excuse for killing people.
Get every last alcoholic and drug abuser in your family in treatment and protect the rest of the population from them. Stop trying to be the Manson family of alcoholics and treat this.
No Britany,
There’s worse people.
These people came to Bethany, Lacie, Haley and Vadie’s funeral today and picketed.
http://www.godhatesfags.com/schedule.html
“St. Luke Evangelical Lutheran Church 7001 Harford Road This is for the memorial service for the Griffin-Burkman family. This family is heavily laden in adultery and idolatry, and God has executed Judgment upon them, because they have forsaken God with their filthy manner of life and hewed themselves out idols, like “Santa Claus” (Jeremiah 2:13). The Lord Jesus Christ spoke to this issue of adultery (i.e. Divorce and Remarriage, which both of these parents were involved in): Luke 16:18- Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. The drunk driver, Michael Gagnon, was sent directly by the Hand of God to execute that Judgment on so many levels: In punishment of Baltimore and Maryland, who put members of Westboro Baptist Church on trial (NO RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, NO FIRST AMENDMENT), in punishment of the adulterer and adulteress, and in punishment of the multitude of other crimes you have committed against the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ. To finish the quote of Michael Gagnon, “Sorry Bro…(I’ve got a date with a minivan.)”"
ah yes, the Phelps familly was it not? if there is indeed a heaven and also a hell, these lunatics will most certainly experience the fire and brimstone they wish uppon others.
Ok, seriously. I am not religious in the least bit, but you don’t have to judge the people who are. I am a very open minded person, I’ve had gay friends, I’ve had ‘bible thumping’ friends. Mike wasn’t either. He was a good man, and as I believe, he still is. Had it been 1 person in the vehicle, people wouldn’t be making such a big fuss over it. But it was a family, with 6 kids, a wonderful family at that… and they seem to be very remourseful, why can’t the other people who aren’t involved? Their family is saying, “Pray for Mike and his family.” They know it was an accident, a horrible accident. But what can they do? What has happened is done. The people in the accident are in a better place, as some would say. But they were christians, so they knew they were going to a better place. Let the family of the people who were killed dothe judging, because what you people say, doesn’t matter.
PLEASE. So now it’s ok that this POS effin killed 5 people, because they were xians, and therefore they are now in heaven?
Cut your effin tongue out. That is the lamest support for a murderer I’ve ever heard. Maybe we should just go out right now and OFF all the ‘good’ people, in their best interests, and send them off to heaven early?
Jeezalouisa, I am effin full up with people who support absolute losers who effin kill people. THIS is why people keep doing it. Because friends and family say they are good people and don’t deserve how disgusted with them.
When I am angry with my boys behaviour, I don’t forgive/justify the things they did. I also don’t beat the shit out of them. I tell them plainly and clearly how disappointed I am in them, and how what they did was NOT acceptable. And won’t happen again. Being afraid of me not approving of them is more effective than whacking their ass. It would be nice if we saw this family acting the same, but they aren’t.
How in the world is crime supposed to go down when evey POS’s family/friend support/don’t think they should be punished for it?
I am glad so many people think this POS who mowed down children is so wonderful and great. He can be wonderful and great in a prison for a long time, luckily. Too bad the DP won’t be thrown at him.
You want to get all bible-y on my ass?
How about ‘Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord’.
Maybe you think that means after the POS is dead, but it doesn’t. The Lord may think this POS needs whacking now. The bible also makes it clear that sins get passed down, so I feel sorry for any children this POS has. I’m guessing that knowing your daddy got drunk off his ass, diddled with the bar drugs, killed 5 people because he was too selfish and evil… would be just like having the sins of your parents visited on them. I feel sorry for this POS’s wife and children.
‘Daddy Day’ at school… ‘where’s YOUR daddy?’.
‘In jail, he killed 5 people while drunk driving’.
Oh, cool. Would you like to join our group?’
Not likely.
_______________
Some gal- maybe you could get off your high horse now? I’m surprised he hasn’t kicked you off already.
“meant to clarify the term for glorybug, as she did not know the meaning.”
What a martyr you are, going around trying to educamate everyone. Did it ever occur to you that other people may know exactly the same things you know, and more… but that they just don’t effin agree with you?
I’d love to educamate you about how sometimes people think they are just know-it-alls, but how really, other people just think they are being self-absorbed and condescending.
When I first started reading here, I thought that it was only family/friends or POSs who had circumstantial evidence against them regarding their abuse/molestation/murder, who jumped to the defense. As in, yes they got killed, but this great, wonderful xian did not do it… they got framed!
Then, in this case, my eyes were opened. It doesn’t even matter if it’s a blatant fact that the person did it… yet they all use the same terminology to defend their POSs. Innocent. Great guy. Xian. The jury got it all wrong… sob. The truth that didn’t get outed during the trial will come out later… ooh, scary.
I’m still not sold on the Taco Bell story. He could have gone back the few blocks to the bar. But he didn’t. It’s not unusual for innocent, great guy, xian types to be cheating on their spouses. Is it possible this POS was driving away from the bar area to hook up with his lover?
What reason would he have to get on the highway instead of going back the 3 blocks to the bar/hotel? Being drunk doesn’t seem to cover that.
3 rooms/40 people? Sounds like this ‘xian’ family really liked to party. Dumbing it down, it hardly seems likely that even 30 people could have shared 3 rooms at 10 per room. I’ve been in hotel rooms with my ex and our two boys, and it was cramped. But then, we weren’t getting shitfaced at the nearby bar, either. Maybe being a drunk ass makes it more tolerable to crash in a motel room with 9 other people?
This whole thing makes me sick, but not as sick as having to read the co-dependant rationalizations offered by the POS’s family/friends.
Wow, all that support? That’ll teach him to not drink/drive/kill 5 people again!!!
c
You’re kidding me right? Phelps showed up? That guy is the most insane person out there. Really the shit that he does it fucking unbelieveable. It makes my stomach turn to think of the stuff he tries to pull off.
I don’t get it if was only 600 something yards (that’s what like 2 football fields) and visible in eyesight that he didn’t just walk and why would he have to get on the freeway to begin with?!?
Phelps is planning to go back on 01/13/08. Man if I had the money I sure as hell would fly out there to say something to that bastard.
Kick some ass for me if anyone is going.
Glory: “How in the world is crime supposed to go down when evey POS’s family/friend support/don’t think they should be punished for it?”
Glory, I’ve read most all the replies posted, and I don’t see ANYONE condoning what this guy did, the supporters just don’t think that YOU the people who don’t know him have basis to condemn him to an eternity of brimstone and hellfire. Leave that to the victim’s family, the judge/jury, and time.
Something else I’ve noticed is that you are pretty active on pysih. But what sets you apart from the other “top commentators” is that YOU always have to have the last word. Maybe you’re afraid to do this irl, and it makes you feel like a big important person to shut down the OPINIONS of faceless people on the internet?
Have great day, and God bless.
Ive know Mike and his brother for over five years and consider myself as a famliy friend, and they are some of the most caring people I have had the pleasure of knowing…and who gives all of u the right to be his judge and jury….No one, Brittany said “she would kill Mike if givin the chance” well then Mrs. Brittany u would be no better. In fact I believe people should show compassion for both sides and realize that no one is saying that what he did was right, but the fact of it all is that he made a Very Big Mistake, and despite what classes assholes (Brittany) say in here…. he will pay everyday for the rest of his life, when he has to look at himself in the mirror, and be reminded of the damage he caused….
figure of speech. I can’t even hold a gun let alone actually kill someone.
Why don’t you look at the pictures and then tell me a part of you doesn’t feel the same way.
I’m not going to show compassion for a complete stranger who drove drunk and whiped out an entire family almost when I didn’t show compassion for my own father who only totaled his car while driving drunk. It’s a choice he made that he will have complete strangers grinding their teeth over his existence because of the things he robbed this family over.
Three members of the Phelps family were indeed there in Baltimore for their political platform
To Nemo and Fitch, you aren’t helping. Bethany didn’t just have a family, she had a large group of friends and they want justice too.
If Michael (I don’t know him as Mike) had just killed Vadie or Bethany or Jordan or Haley or Lacie, it would be just as deserving of the pain and hate he’s getting now. The reason people keep on driving drunk is because they don’t think it matters. They don’t think it will be them. They don’t have a big enough understanding of what sort of suffering it inflicts.
I actually believe Michael may be starting to see a little of that. I think you two haven’t got a clue.
Like I said though Jason, they are planning and have scheduled to be there on Sunday as well.
I DIDN’T EFFIN SAY HE SHOULDN’T PUNISHED! Did you notice the website? PEOPLE YOU’LL SEE IN HELL. Mike does NOT deserve Hell… He does need to be punished, but not with life, or hell.
“Jeezalouisa, I am effin full up with people who support absolute losers who effin kill people.”
You don’t know Mike, so who are you to judge? He had his life in order, was going to school, and had a successful business. HE WAS NOT A LOSER! Good GOD! Like I said, leave it to the people involved to do the judging.
“I DIDN’T EFFIN SAY HE SHOULDN’T PUNISHED! Did you notice the website? PEOPLE YOU’LL SEE IN HELL. Mike does NOT deserve Hell… He does need to be punished, but not with life, or hell.”
Did you know him when he got the illegal possession as a minor charge? How old was he then?
Do you know if his intention was to go all the way back to Adrian that night?
Maybe in jail he can find some sort of personal salvation, but it does not equal the people he killed and protecting him from vilification in mainstream media, defends the crime he committed.
I want all of the morons who drink and then drive right now, to hear about how horrible Michael Gagnon is and equate it to the evil it actually is. To know that drinking and driving is not some sort of test of skill or manhood but is murder. It makes even “nice” people into the worst kind of people. It’s not a mistake, it’s a choice and a lifestyle.
Not when you cant remember a thing
The only one who chose to put those chemicals in Michael’s body was Michael.
Imagine this…. If I got roaring drunk, and ran over 5 of your relatives, I’d deserve the death penalty. You’d want it and I’d want it.
mean or nice it doesn’t matter. all what lead up to his life, doing all the great things and leaving his life in order doesn’t matter. He still made this choice so all that hard work and everything he worked hard for goes down the drain.
What happened in the past isn’t going to make a difference in the eyes of the jurors or friends and family because of what happened that night. The choices he made. Plain and simple.
I feel sorry for you, his friends, who don’t understand that.
“…because what you people say, doesn’t matter.”
I see that you fail to understand the principles of our criminal justice system.
The court case will not be “the family of Bethany , Jordan, Vadie, Haley, Lacie and Danny vs. Michael Gagnon” but “The People vs. Michael Gagnon.”
When you violate fundamental rules of society, it doesn’t matter who the immediate victims are, society as a whole in the form of “The People” are the ones who will determine justice. Hence the reason you have a right to a trial by a jury of your peers.
However I’m sure we’d all be happy to load the jury up with the family of the deceased if that’s your preference.
Ok, the POS killed kids. In prison the most hated inmates are the ones that kill kids. This drunk loser is going to sure get what is coming to him in prison. I wouldn’t be surprised if they “take care of him”….like they did with Dahmer.
For the last two hours I have been reading all the previous comments. I think this is a very sad situation. I don’t personally know the victims or the drunk driver but I do have compassion for BOTH sides and I don’t care what any of you say, it is sad for BOTH families. As an objective third party, I am praying for BOTH families and pray that God will somehow find a way for everyone involved to achieve peace.
Another thing. You can bet that there are going to be alot of lawsuits from this. POS didn’t even have insurance, did he? Can they go after the family then?
Everyone pays for this crime with increased insurance rates. My insurance keeps going up and I have had a clean driving record for over 30 years. We have to pay for assholes like this and all of the other irresponsible pricks on the road.
I am on a roll. Me thinks that legally it is EXTREMELY dumb of the family to be posting all of these messages on the internet. This is going to be used against their “wonderboy” in court.
Personally, I think he should get the death penalty and be used as an example to other drunks out there to knock off this DUI murder BS that is allowed. The Mideast sure has that over the US. They execute people over there for these types of crimes. The only reason why the USA is so easygoing with the palty few year sentences is because the politicians are funded by the big booze companies to get in office. Anhauser Bush etc donates MILLIONS to the political campaigns of our presidents and other politicians. It is all incredibly corrupt of how the alcohol industry keeps getting away with murder.
drunksarelosers aka GloryBug
yeah…no
when GloryBug writes she makes sense and is intelligent. Don’t forget…she uses proper grammer
Um…yeah
She’s bout the only person I’ve seen who repeatedly uses POS.
The tone and argument style are TOTALLY the same. The grammar is mighty fine.
Whatever. Lame.
GloryBug, drunksarelosers, whoever you are, or whichever personality you choose to use the next time. Maybe someone should “take care” of you like they did Dahmer. Because obviously you have nothing better to do than judge people, when you are no better.
The fact that Mike killed 5 people is still standing. I’m not defending him there. I am on the defense for him as a person. Sure he had a MIP when he was in high school, but seriously, coming from the area where we did, probably about 70% of our graduating class had MIP’s. We live in a po-dunk little town, where there’s nothing to do. If you want to do something you have to drive 30 miles to get there. Thus, why Mike was in Toledo at the time the accident happened. Nobody but Mike knows what he was doing or thinking (shit, he may not even know that, considering how drunk he was) when he got behind the wheel of the truck. My take on the situation, he was hungry, the bar shut down the grill for the night, he drove to Taco Bell. After leaving Taco Bell, he got on I-280, on the same exit they got off of earlier that day, obviously not thinking or watching the signs, again because he was so drunk he couldn’t comprehend anything, and headed somewhere else for the night. It could have very well been home, but like I said, nobody knows but Mike.
Don’t get me wrong. I too feel extremely bad for what has happened to the Griffin/Burkman family. But I’m not going to go around saying that Mike is a horrible person, and he should rot in prison, be killed, or burn in hell because of the situation. I know Mike… enough to know that he’s already a changed man because of what has happened. Do I think he deserves to be punished… Hell yes, and he will. Had it of been my husband and 2 kids in the accident, I would hate Mike for what happened, but in no way would I wish the things upon him that you people are.
Everything that a person does good or bad comes back to that person. POS will eventually get all of this back to him in this lifetime and the next. It may take lifetimes to clear this thing up in his karma. No one gets off free and this forgiveness and everything ends up roses stuff isn’t reality. All the pain that he caused will now be his to feel and bear for a loooooooooooooooooong time.
How small minded are you people in this family? You are on the internet guessing who is sending messages. The world is a big place and you contemplate that the same person is sending the same messages about the POS. It is true that drinking greatly narrows a person’s outlook on life. You idiots think that only a few people know about this montrous act ?
ok first thing…it was his brothers bar. It was New Years. Why would they shut it down?
Nemo- There’s two post since your post that used POS. AND read some more of the stories on here. Other people use it just as much. Oh and she always signs her comments with ‘c’
Again this isn’t about who Mike was before 12/30. It’s about the choices he made and actions he took that night that will forever seal his fate in life and the “after life” if there is one.
It doesn’t matter how much of a nice person he was. It’s the sad hard truth but nonetheless the truth
it was his brothers bar
Once again, you’re wrong. It was his cousin’s bar, and who wants to be cooking at 11:00? Who cares about that detail anyways, he wanted 4th meal.
ok brother cousin. 6 of one 1/2 a dozen of the other.
and actually I did say brother’s bar.
Brittany says…
ok brother cousin. 6 of one 1/2 a dozen of the other.
So if your cousin does something wrong and we blame it on your brother it’s ok? But if the cousin is on your husbands side and we blame it on your husband that would be ok also right? Remember how you figure things….ok brother cousin. 6 of one 1/2 a dozen of the other.
Mizz Right – My point I was trying to make was it was a family members bar and grill.
Man what you said makes a lot of confusing sense.
Ashley said
“But I’m not going to go around saying that Mike is a horrible person, and he should rot in prison, be killed, or burn in hell because of the situation.”
And that’s why every time it happens again, you should be held responsible. You are enabling him and others. You are protecting the crime with the criminal. It won’t stop if we allow the “Oh he was drunk defense.” the only way it will stop is if every time someone drinks and then drives they know that if they get caught it means they will lose their life.
Mike deserves lethal injection if for no other reason than to make the next person who is just as careless and stupid as he is from doing it again.
He is and was stupid and careless and nothing will make him better. He is diminished in this world to less than ashes. If you’d like to help him out and prepare for the next world, so be it, but he is wasting air that should belong to Bethany and her children and his execution would have been a better use of his life than anything so far demonstrated.
Why didn’t you stop him when he got the first DUI and had it reduced to Illegal Possession by a Minor when he got that speeding ticket? Why didn’t you stop him when he started in the pattern of driving drunk? Ask yourself that for the rest of your life instead of asking other people to forgive him. They don’t need to listen to you because they don’t forgive you either.
Hey Jason, thanks for speaking sense. I can’t believe all of this “oh well he was drunk and goddangit he made a mistake” attitude.
Yes, good can come of this. If they would execute him and THEN maybe drunks would start getting the message….. OR another option is that ALL vehicles need to have the ignition lock system built in. Every damn car that is made and those that don’t have them, would need to get them installed. Kind of like the catalytic converter program. Maybe the supporters of Gagnon, could get some good out of this and try to get this type of program /law passed. Use their time and resources for the good of society and not to protect Mike. We need the iginition lock system!!
IT JUST IS NOT RIGHT THAT DRUNKS CAN RUIN INNOCENT PEOPLES LIVES!!!!!. That is an extremely serious matter and it is very disturbing how some people take it so lightly. If they had a better quality life that didn’t revolve around alcohol, maybe they would realize why this DUI murder is such a horrible crime and shouldn’t have to be tolerated by innocent people who just want to live happy lives.
Drunksarelosers may share some of my viewpoints, but I can assure you were are not the same person. I know some people will be disappointed because they don’t want to think there are more people against drunk drivers, but oh well.
And, I disagree that our writing styles are the same. My writing style is much more crass, and pisses more people off because of my opinionated rantings. Dislike me if you must, but don’t let it spill over onto ‘drunksarelosers’.
“The court case will not be “the family of Bethany , Jordan, Vadie, Haley, Lacie and Danny vs. Michael Gagnon†but “The People vs. Michael Gagnon.â€
This, once again is a brilliant distillation of what I, and many others have been trying to express.
Yes, we have a right to be involved with crimes that are being prosecuted on our behalf.
And, unless I’m mistaken Brittany, you are out? Is it presumptious on my part to make the comment that I believe that the majority of people freakishly supporting abusers and murderers, who rant that none of us have the right to judge the POSs, or vote for them to go to hell….. would have no problem ‘voting for hell’ anyone who was gay or lesbian or the myriad of other sexualities that genetically fall between the norm of heterosexuality? Just wondering.
c
“We’ll miss you.”
Admin, I love you!
I don’t really care if it was his cousin’s place. I don’t care that he was jonesing for a bean burrito. I don’t care that no one saw him leave (which is crap because someone had to give him the keys and watch him stumble toward the door). I don’t care that the family freaked when they realized he was gone. I care that he plowed into a van carrying a family home from the holidays and killed several innocent children and managed to walk away with enough presence of mind to resist the LE officers that responded to the carnage. I agree that it’s sad that he will have to live with this the rest of his life, but that’s the price you pay. Don’t ask me or anyone else to be sympathetic to his cause because he feels bad now. Maybe he should have started feeling bad when he was driving down the highway in the wrong direction for 4 miles. Perhaps that should have been the first clue that maybe he wasn’t OK to drive and he should pull over, eat his food and sleep it off. He deserves whatever is coming to him and as far as the state of his soul, that’s between him and whatever he considers holy.
Sarah- bless your heart.
You seem to be one of the few people who can look at this case for only what it is.
Anyone who wants to continue to say that this is all just a very unfortunate, sad accident should think twice about the precedent you are setting.
Same as the accident where the mom’s boyfriend’s penis somehow ‘accidentally’ got stuck in his girlfriend’s toddler’s vagina.
Accidents happen, YKWIM? We should not prosecute this POS for purposefully driving drunk and killing 5 people, and we should not prosecute boyfriends whose penises accidentally get stuck in their girlfriend’s children’s vaginas, right?
For some reason I am not buying the excuse that this POS stole keys to drive a few blocks to get a yummy chalupa…. There has to be a reason he was heading the other way (against traffic, yes), and I will bet it’s because he was not heading back to the bar his cousin owned, that pumped him full of alcohol (and possibly HGH), but was instead headng towards someone else’s house. Lots of times drunk assholes show up at their lover’s house (even though they are married), so until I hear otherwise I am not going to rule that out.
According to many accounts, this drunk POS could have easily have walked to Taco Bell. But he chose to drive? As I have said before, I’d like to know what the POS ordered at Taco Bell. Food for one? Food for himself and another person that he got in his car to visit even though he was drunk off his ass?
Just wondering.
c
Glory….did I ever tell you how much I love you?
Yes I am out. I’ve been out since 7th grade and I’m turning 21 on Monday.
and YES I’m sure if the admin posted a poll on whether or not, I, Brittany, should/would end up in hell because I’m gay when then, I’m sure there would be a lot of votes saying so.
You know what…Admin, if you want you can. What the hell. It would get a lot of people talking and I wouldn’t get offended either way.
shit if I’m gonnan go to hell for being gay I better not list the other things I’ve done. Hell might not be big enough for my past.
A sad note to this case, members of the Phelps clan, the group who protests at military funerals aas well as Matthew Shepard’s protested at the funeral for the family, claiming their deaths were retribution by God for them losing a lawsuit in court recently. Won’t these people ever go away?
no they can’t. I don’t understand what they think “good” people are.
If ever there were a group of people you’ll definitely be seeing in hell, the Phelps clan wins the prize. You can visit their website at godhatesfags.com. Seriously. It’s plastered on the outside of their church building. Classy. Why doesn’t a drunk driver get those jackasses?
It is pretty obvisous that Fred Phelps and is whacked out toadies are going straight to Hell. They thinnk everyone else is going to Hell, except for them.
I have followed this case since it first became news and feel awful for all of the families involved and am praying for them. I do have some thoughts.
On another forum I found a link to the brother’s myspace pages and to the bar’s myspace page. Reading these would lead one to believe alcohol is the single most important thing in the lives of all of these people. The brother’s page which has since been modified showed him holding a bottle of beer. The page linked to the bar’s web page. The bar’s web page which has since been modified showed the profile of the owner of the page describing his or her mood as “drunk.” The page was filled with a bunch of folks for whom alcohol must be more important than life itself.
The myspace page of Mrs. Griffin appeared to be devoted to her family. Stark contrast.
A little research shows that a BAC of .254 would render most people into a state where they’d be lucky if they weren’t in a coma. One might surmise that a person who could function to some degree with a BAC of .254 probably has developed quite a tolerance for alcohol which would probably require regular and devoted drinking. I found this online:
BAC = .25-.30 = Drinkers display general inertia, near total loss of motor functions, little response to stimuli, inability to stand or walk, vomiting, and incontinence. Drinkers may lose consciousness or fall into a stupor.
A visit to the Toledo Blade website found a copy of the search warrant for the bar. The police found 2 boxes of HGH, multiple syringes and nearly $16,000 in cash stored with these items. Once might guess that someone at the bar didn’t just store his or her stash there but was selling the stuff out of the bar. If this is all true I hope they close the place down.
I have read one story that indicated that Gagnon had a larceny charge a couple of years ago and that he was ordered into drug and alcohol counseling. If that’s true I guess it didn’t work. Maybe he’s not such a great guy that some are making him out to be after all.
This whole story has caused pain and suffering for many people. Those who have had family and friends killed by a drunk driver have probably had those wounds reopened. The court system will hopefully do its job though it would be best for all if this man just plead guilty and saved everyone a lot of pain as he has already caused more than enough. I pray that the families will heal.
And what kind of family books a family Christmas get together at a bar?
The best thing anyone can do about the Phelps “church” bunch is ignore them. To bad Gagnon didn’t hit their van.
It’s a shame that at that BAC level he couldn’t have just passed out somewhere before he ended up getting behind the wheel and destroying the Griffin families lives, not to mention causing his own family grief.
Glory may be right about him having other things to do (i.e. cheating on his wife) if he was going out without planning on returning to the bar and the nearby hotel where they would have had a nice comfty room for him to pass out in. I don’t know exactly how far away the Taco Bell was from the bar but if it was within stumbling distance couldn’t he have just gotten there on foot or at least have had the designated driver make a Taco Bell run for him?
Every once in a while my school’s newspaper will report in its police beat about cases of theft, harassment, general drunkeness, trespassing and other types of crimes. Every once in a while I’ll read about a case of extreme intoxication (in one instance a BAC of 0.36) and these people need to be taken to the nearest hospital for treatment it’s that bad. I mean sometimes I’ll find these people pathetic because they’ll end so drunk that they’re half naked, covered with vomit and are found in the dorm hallway by the RA with thier head in a pizza box. But I don’t have as much contempt for these people as I do this guy because at least for the most part they don’t hop behind the wheel of thier car at that level of intoxication with no thought but of themselves on thier mind. For somebody that should have lost nearly all thier motor functions at that level, it seems like he had a tolerance for being this drunk and still being able to function. And he probably drove this drunk before. This may have just been the first time he was caught.
I don’t understand how he was able to comprehend the Taco Bell menu but not any of the freeway signs on the off ramp, such as do not enter signs.
It was also really nice to see his only public comments, relayed by his mother, concerned what people were thinking about HIM! “Mom, does everyone think I’m a monster?”
Nothing about the family. Just concerned about himself.
You people suck… seriously. How would you feel if it was your brother? Your son? You father? Or your husband. No, fuck no I’m not saying it’s right… He should be punished, and he will be. But the things you people are saying about him.. It’s just plain cruel. Sure shit he made a bad choice, a choice he will have to live with for the rest of his life.
I’m not condoning drinking and driving, I am defending mike as a person, not the choices he makes.
The press doesn’t let you hear Mikes remorse, they are only going to show you what he’s done wrong. The larceny charge… wasn’t him. The person he was with was doing it, and they named him as the passenger. Get your facts right.
FUCK Mike’s so-called “remorse.”
Just my two cents:
When I was in high school – yes, I can remember that far – my friend, a male, went drink driving and ran over and killed my other best friend. I was no where near at the time. Up til then I thought he was a reasonable, kind friendly young man. Then he killed someone. Feel free to remember them as they were before they committed murder, but I think it is better this way, to know that they chose to do something so mind-numbingly stupid and harmful. Do you WANT to be friends with that sort of people? He killed my childhood friend. A brilliant student, an intelligent woman, a doting daughter. Taken away in the blink of an eye because getting inebriated is so f***ing important. I’ll tell you something else, too. Two years ago, another of my friends decided that he was going to shoot up his college, kill his classmates. His father tried to stop him, and was murdered. Then my friend shot himself. But it was okay, he was really a nice guy, he was just on Crack? I don’t think like that. BTW, I come from NZ, and we had the Aramoana massacre. A man poured petrol on two little girls and set fire to them, and murdered many others, because he was delusional. So don’t think I’m out of touch with you people from big exciting countries, okay :)
Last thing, I don’t agree with people writing God bless at the end of their posts. Especially on here. With all the men and women on this site, do you really think God blesses anyone at all?
Actually my dad was in a, what could have been extremely, similar DUI and I don’t forgive him still for it and he didn’t even injure anyone.
it’s all manslaughter. they both, in one way or another, slaughtered their victims.
Ashley said:
“I’m not condoning drinking and driving, I am defending mike as a person, not the choices he makes.
The press doesn’t let you hear Mikes remorse, they are only going to show you what he’s done wrong. The larceny charge… wasn’t him. The person he was with was doing it, and they named him as the passenger. Get your facts right.”
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/condone
1. to disregard or overlook (something illegal, objectionable, or the like).
2. to give tacit approval to: By his silence, he seemed to condone their behavior.
3. to pardon or forgive (an offense); excuse.
4. to cause the condonation of.
‘the act of condoning; the overlooking or implied forgiving of an offense.’
5. Law. to forgive or act so as to imply forgiveness of (a violation of the marriage vow).
You’re not condoning his actions by focusing on his personal traits that you claim are “good”?
Do you know what the words you’re using mean?
Remember when you couldn’t figure out why there was a reason to carefully study in class, and thought English was boring? Here’s the reason you should have paid attention. You are condoning Michael Gagnon’s actions. You’re ignoring the crime to protect the criminal from public humiliation and scorn for the evil he has done and is guilty of. You’re protecting and even forgiving his actions. You’ve tried to limit the people you think can judge him in the court of public opinion. You’ve tried to silence a majority of people who know that Michael is a monster because he did monstrous things.
That makes you an apologist for drunk driving, a spokes person for forgiving the crime. That makes you an enemy of the over 30,000 people killed last year by people just like Michael Gagnon.
Ah shut up… I’m sticking to what I know… I know Michael, and thats all I need to know. He doesn’t deserve the things you people are saying about him, and I will say that over and over.
And honestly what you say doesn’t matter!
“Ah shut up… I’m sticking to what I know…”
very little, about life and the English language.
“I know Michael, and thats all I need to know.”
you know criminals and all you want to know are criminals. You’ve made that abundantly clear.
“He doesn’t deserve the things you people are saying about him, and I will say that over and over.”
He killed 5 people who were worth more than him. He deserves death.
“And honestly what you say doesn’t matter!”
Then why do you defend him here and everywhere?
I urge you to stop drinking and driving. I hope if you do continue to do it yourself that you are the only one you kill. I hope you and your family stop defending Michael along with the crime. You could have stopped him when he got by with a decreased charge the first time, but instead you practically told him that it was alright to do it again.
And now you’re doing it again.
Golly Ashley.
I have a member of my own family who has drug and alcohol problems. He’s now a four time convicted felon. The system has essentially given him a pass each time. When he’s not drunk or on drugs he’s a great guy but look out when he is. Most people who meet him think he’s charming. We know better and what he’s capable of because we chose to remove the blinders from our eyes. We’ve been plenty frustrated with the court system because they’ve been so lenient. We even hired an attorney for him to get him put into a program to get clean. Sadly, we’ve done all we can do within the law and it hasn’t been enough. Did anyone in the family ever intervene with Michael? You don’t get that drunk and still function just out of the blue. If my family member had done this I think I’d be joining the “hang him” chorus as much as anyone else who’s written out of anger on this board and elsewhere.
Mr. Gagnon didn’t make a “mistake.” He killed 5 people and injured three others. Anyone who could function at any level with a BAC of .254, and let’s remember that was drawn after a court order so the level was probably much higher when he killed, has got to have some issues with sobriety. He’s probably made a ton of mistakes and it’s a shame that the first time he really got caught was because he killed 5 people.
As far as the larceny charge, perhaps the newspaper where I read it got the facts wrong. I reported what they reported. With most laws if you are there you are charged right along with the perpetrator. How the hell did he get off? Being a passenger is no excuse. What kind of people did Michael hang out with for gosh sakes?
As far as his remorse, well that’s really nice he’s remorseful. Yippe. My family member found remorse too, when he was in jail, but he got over it. It doesn’t change anything and no penalty will equal the cost the Griffin and Burkman families have paid and will pay physically, mentally, emotionally and financially.
Maybe our anger is directed a Michael because we are all so sick of hearing of yet another family killed by a drunk driver, so sick of this 20 something year old culture that so deeply values alcohol and a good time over everything else, so sick of Myspace pages where getting drunk or high is the primary purpose in life, so sick of those who will excuse and dismiss the actions of those who lead this lifestyle of death as being good people. If we suck because of that so be it. Maybe we’d like to live without the fear of the next Michael Gagnon lurking around the next bend in the road.
Let’s stop calling him Michael. It sounds too proper and decent. He is Gagnon or Mike or even POS if you are in a bad mood.
I mean what is this $300 a week garbage that he claims to have earned as a construction worker? Illegal Mexicans flipping burgers make more than that. Nobody goes to trade school and then ends up making $300 a week at a building job. He even lies to a judge so that the taxpayer can foot the bill for his defense. When does it end with creeps like this?
“very little, about life and the English language” – Are you kidding? You are a joke…
“I urge you to stop drinking and driving.I hope if you do continue to do it yourself that you are the only one you kill.” – Thanks for that, but I don’t drink and drive, and I never have drank and drove… can you point me to where I said I had?
“I hope you and your family stop defending Michael along with the crime. You could have stopped him when he got by with a decreased charge the first time, but instead you practically told him that it was alright to do it again.” – I am not one to tell anyone what to do.
“I mean what is this $300 a week garbage that he claims to have earned as a construction worker? Illegal Mexicans flipping burgers make more than that. Nobody goes to trade school and then ends up making $300 a week at a building job. He even lies to a judge so that the taxpayer can foot the bill for his defense. When does it end with creeps like this?”
Are you kidding me? Must be you don’t know what its like to be self-employed and have people work for you. I happen to come from a family that is self-employed and let me tell you there are some weeks that you dont make a whole lot you idiot it all depends on the job. if you read that article in the blade where it talks about mike paying his own way through school plus working…it says that he trys to help people out as much as he can by giving them cheaper prices so they can afford it and he will even work for free just to help someone out. So dont go judging his pay check and no he is not lying to the judge about his pay. You people are stupid….
“very little, about life and the English language†– Are you kidding? You are a joke…
Using what you say against you…. you know, logical debate?
“I urge you to stop drinking and driving.I hope if you do continue to do it yourself that you are the only one you kill.†– Thanks for that, but I don’t drink and drive, and I never have drank and drove…
I don’t have your public criminal record in front of me. Just Michael’s.
can you point me to where I said I had?
You claimed 70% of your graduating class had possession as a minor charge. Since Michael’s was received as a reduction in sentence from a DUI offense, and you “assumed” that, that was okay, I reasonably assumed that you were 70% likely to engage in the same criminal activities as Michael did.
“I hope you and your family stop defending Michael along with the crime. You could have stopped him when he got by with a decreased charge the first time, but instead you practically told him that it was alright to do it again.†– I am not one to tell anyone what to do.
You’ve been telling me and others to stop judging Michael. You’re a hypocrite. You can’t tell someone to do something when it might save a life and you tell people to stop burning Michael in effigy when it might raise awareness enough to maybe save a life. You’re a coward and a weakling who’s standing on the wrong side.
You deserve nothing but contempt.
Michael never had a dui ,growing up
Was he behind the wheel when he got the minor in possession?
To Brittany and others….
I didnt want to bring this up but….besides everytihng that mike did there are others you can look at that didnt do anything to help the situation. 1st the Taco bell guy should have told mike to pull up and wait for his food, to keep him there until the cops came….2nd the father shouldn’t have put eight people in a 7 person van, and maybe it would have been better if he would have properly straped the baby car seat in the middle of the seat row, not on the end of a seat row, maybe the 8 week old baby would have servived both of these things are listed by the department of transpertation as things that are the drivers responablity and therefor would have been listed as the drive’s falt a.k.a the father himself. Like i said before I really didnt want to be that guy to bring this up….but as i see you are relentless in your persacution someone that you dont even know or know the hole story of the stiuation. Myself being someone who studies law would be able to tell you the grim truth of the situation. You may not agree or call me heartless but no matter what you say from here on I have given you facts that point to others to blame as well as Mike, you may not agree with me but you cant disagree with FACTS….
I actually have the real facts… something you seem to be without.
“To Brittany and others….
I didnt want to bring this up but….besides everytihng that mike did there are others you can look at that didnt do anything to help the situation. 1st the Taco bell guy should have told mike to pull up and wait for his food, to keep him there until the cops came….”
They did hold him there. At one point Michael got out of the vehicle and then got back into his car and left. They kept him there for several minutes.
“2nd the father shouldn’t have put eight people in a 7 person van,”
Eight person van.
Dan was in the front seat, Bethany was in the passenger seat. There are two bench seats which each sit three. Everyone was wearing a seatbelt. The baby seat was buckled in but when Michael hit them at 60 miles per hour while they were traveling 60+, that’s a 120 miles per hour. Bethany was thrown from the car still buckled into her car seat. It smashed out all of her teeth when she collided with the cement 25 feet from the car.
“and maybe it would have been better if he would have properly straped the baby car seat in the middle of the seat row, not on the end of a seat row, maybe the 8 week old baby would have servived”
You need to get a copy of the police report and then read it before you lie about these “details” you think are facts. Jordan was torn from her seat and thrown under the van. Haley had a hole in her head and died instantly. Beau was still buckled into his seat, and the material in the car formed a shell around him that protected him from most of the injury.
Look at the picture of the van. It was opened up all along the right hand side and the middle of the car is staved in. You need to read the police report, you really do.
“both of these things are listed by the department of transpertation as things that are the drivers responablity and therefor would have been listed as the drive’s falt a.k.a the father himself.”
No, when someone is driving the wrong way on the freeway, is 3 times the legal limit and rams directly into and through your vehicle you get a pass on most things.
“Like i said before I really didnt want to be that guy to bring this up….”
Yes you did. You want to protect your friend. you think Drunk Driving is fine. you think Michael doesn’t deserve to die or even spend much time in prison. You think this was a “mistake” or an “accident.” You want to blame Bethany and Dan for this crime and it doesn’t sit right with me.
“but as i see you are relentless in your persacution someone that you dont even know or know the hole story of the stiuation. Myself being someone who studies law would be able to tell you the grim truth of the situation.”
you can’t even spell Persecution or Situation. You haven’t read the police report. you can get one with a freedom of Information Act request or put in a form available on the Toledo Police Department’s website. You are woefully ill equipped to handle what you’ll learn about this.
“You may not agree or call me heartless but no matter what you say from here on I have given you facts that point to others to blame as well as Mike, you may not agree with me but you cant disagree with FACTS….”
You don’t know any facts about this case. Admit it, you made everything up on the spot because you thought you knew. You didn’t look at any of the actual facts in this case. Try again.
Fitch you can’t spell.
You can’t try to throw “facts” at someone if they don’t exist the way you present them.
Google the car accident.
Look at the pictures.
The carseat was thrown across lanes of the freeway.
Even if it wasn’t in the middle, it would’ve needed to be hit extremely hard in order to be thrown that far.
Jason has a good point, just like every time, “No, when someone is driving the wrong way on the freeway, is 3 times the legal limit and rams directly into and through your vehicle you get a pass on most things.”
No if, ands or buts about it.
oh and if it’s law that you study, I sure wouldn’t want you representing me especially because you can’t spell. At least when I don’t think I can spell I make a note of it.
oh and I don’t think there’s a need for you to try again buddy.
Jason… Do you have nothing better to do but pick apart everything that people have to say? They are just trying to tell you people that Michael is not the ‘monster’ you make him out to be. Were you a policeman, fireman, or EMT on the scene that night? Do you know the FACTS of exactly what happened? I don’t think you do. The only people who do, are Michael, and Danny. There were many things that everyone could have done wrong in this situation. But nothing worked, and it ended up in a horrible tragedy. I haven’t heard anywhere that Michael got out of his truck at Taco Bell…? Is that something you “made up on the spot because you thought you knew”, or is that a FACT? Had the kid at Taco Bell told him to pull forward for a minute because they had to fry up some more meat, sure, maybe that would have worked. Maybe the people in the bar shouldn’t have gave him so much to drink. I am sure someone there seen how much he had to drink, and knew it wasn’t safe for him to drive. Someone HAD to have seen him leave. And, it wasn’t a family party. The advertisement for it was plastered all over the bar’s MySpace page.
There are a LOT of different things everyone could have done in the situation, but they didn’t. What has happened is done. Nothing you will change that.
Michael will be punished, his punishment isn’t up to us, and it’s not like what we say matters. It’s up to the judge. Let him do his job.
–Warden
Do you have nothing better to do but pick apart everything that people have to say?
I’m spending my money and vacation time on things like getting police reports. It’s my way of dealing with the grief of losing a close friend. I’m also doing things like trying to collect information on how to help foundations that helpt to stop drunk driving and asking my State reps to sponsor legislation that would make Michael’s actions a capital offense. I’m refuting what these people say because it’s their sort of acceptance that made Michael’s first conviction a lesser offense and thus not as poignant a reminder for Michael not to drink and drive again.
When he did it again he killed my friend and her daughters.
I haven’t heard anywhere that Michael got out of his truck at Taco Bell…? Is that something you “made up on the spot because you thought you knewâ€, or is that a FACT?
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_county/bal-md.fatal05jan05,0,5921577.story
“Michael Gagnon was seen later at a Taco Bell, where employees deemed him so intoxicated that they called police. Before an officer arrived, he got back into his truck and headed the wrong way on Interstate 280 for about four miles, police said, before the collision with Griffin’s minivan.”
FACTs, I have them, you don’t.
The police report is available from the Toledo Police Department as well.
Someone HAD to have seen him leave. And, it wasn’t a family party. The advertisement for it was plastered all over the bar’s MySpace page.
It was a Family Christmas party. The family claimed to have a private section at the bar. You haven’t been paying attention to all of the facts.
NO, there you are wrong Brittany. The carseat was NOT thrown from the car. It was placed there after taking the baby out by one of the EMT’s.
Go here if you don’t believe me…
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=307161215&albumId=103405
Yeah the family may have had a section, but there were plenty more people there besides the family
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=151341175&albumID=0&imageID=14210347
What do you people expect? His cousin was part owner of the bar.
“NO, there you are wrong Brittany. The carseat was NOT thrown from the car. It was placed there after taking the baby out by one of the EMT’s.
Go here if you don’t believe me…”
Actually 3 cars stopped to help while the press set up their cameras. Danny was moving around trying to find his family and talking to his Dad to get him there as fast as possible. The police and EMT’s didn’t show up for several minutes.
I don’t know how the car seat got out of the van, but Vadie was alive after the accident. The same cannot be said for Jordan, Haley and Bethany. They were killed almost, if not instantly.
Maybe you can’t see Bethany’s face? is that it? is it because you’ve never heard her voice that you can be so callous? Do you want to hear her voice? I think I still have it on my voice mail wishing me a Merry Christmas.
I know about the band that played, and I know about the 3 reserved rooms at the hotel. I am paying attention to these details as closely as possible.
First time posting so go easy on me…I am a friend of Jason’s and was fortunate to have met Dan and Bethany once.
Fitch, were you actually trying to place blame on the father? Plus have you driven a van with your baby in the center where, in even a slight accident they could be thrown forward into the windshield, even buckled in? You are instructed to place them to the side behind either the passenger or drivers seat, but that is beside the point. I commend Jason for being able to make the most sense through all of his posts, I know how broken up he has been throughout this whole ordeal and I am amazed at how he has been able to give all of the readers here as much information he could in laymans terms wherever possible so most people could set aside the facts from the fluff. 120mph…that’s the force the vehicles hit each other…
Jason man…it’ll be ok. He’ll get his justice. I feel bad you sound like you’re at a breaking point.
Kenny- you make some good points.
I remember when my boys were little, you had to put their car-carrier in the back seat, facing backwards. I did all of those things, but in the back of my head I don’t think I thought much of those rules. Because it seemed to me to be obvious that if we were hit by a car it would not really matter.
Fender-bender… maybe baby would be protected. Full on crash? No way. That’s if the airbags didn’t snap their necks.
The safest thing to do is to not be on a highway where some freak is driving against the traffic because he was drunk off his ass. That’s a hard thing to anticipate.
I tell my children all the time… (when they complain that I don’t drive as fast/exciting as their dad does)that I don’t question my own driving skills, but that I am very aware of other people’s driving skills. I could be the best driver in the world and still get mowed down by a bad driver.
Get off the road if you think it’s possible that you could wipe out me and more than half of my family. Stay home and be a drunk loser instead of hitting the road and being a loser murderer.
c
Thanks Glory…
No, It’s stay and home and be a happy drunk rather then be a happy drunk that mows down a family and then be a drunk loser…there is a difference, you can drink and get totally S*itfaced drunk and stay wherever you are and have a good time, the drink wasn’t the killer, the drinker that got behind the wheel was.
My family and I were hit by a drunk driver on our way to visit family for Thanksgiving in Tenn., we were lucky, minor injuries except my father, he kept us on the road away from a 12 foot ditch yet ripped all the muscle from his shoulder in doing so. Almost ruined his life, he was a truck driver and could no longer drive a truck because he couldn’t pull himself into the cab. He bounced back, but I don’t know many people that have not at one time or another, been affected by a drunk driver. I fully support any organization or person that tries to strengthen the laws of any state against first time offenders. That’s what Jason I believe is mainly trying to say he has been doing. Gathering facts and reports to aid in getting this done.
I failed to mention, it was an 18 year old kid who was a known high school sports star and the sherriff that was first on teh scene flubbed up everything by waiting til they got to the station 2 hours later before administering a breath test. He only blew slightly over the legal limit 2 HOURS LATER. The airbag didn’t even knock the kids hat off, he hit us because he was reaching into the passenger floorboard of the car (his moms) for another beer. He said he was reaching for his CD case. My brother ran out to see if the guy was OK after making sure we were OK and almost punched the guy until we heard him studdering “what happened” and smelled the beer in the car. If he had been driving his own car, a Jeep Wrangler, he would likly have died. We were lucky, the kid got a fine and his moms insurance took care of the rest. I have no doubt he will hit someone else someday, unless first offenders are treated more harshly.
man I am planning on partying pretty hard on Thursday night for my birthday celebration and I have made arrangements to get toasted beyond and then walk to my friends house two blocks away and not be like Mikey and drive anywheredon’t get me wrong, it’s going to suck to have to walk to my car the next morning but nonetheless I won’t be putting anyone in harms way.
I hope you dont have a blackout,from drinking to much.
What all did he have that night? Did he have any of the Clenbuterol? Were there any other drugs?
GHB? Marijuana? Cocaine?
Was it just alcohol that he had or was there anything else?
Since I am originally from the same town as Mike I have been trying to follow this as much as possible. I am utterly amazed that the people that are sticking up for him ( the two girls from hudson.) Yes I liked Mike in high school, but the fact is he made made a string of bad decisions leading up to the accident and hell yes everyone is going to be digusted. Ashley imagine if that was you new baby boy that had died? you say that you have put yourself in the families shoes but I doubt you have let go of t fact that you have a friendship with Mike, as it is probably clouding your mind. Sometimes this world gets so messed up sometimes they only thing people have is the right to complain and plot what should happen. You going to every website forum and posting your emotional opinions is making everyone who knows mike seem heartless. If you care so much just pray to God that everyone will make it through this.
He plead not guilty today. This guy isn’t done causing pain and suffering.
toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080117/DEVELOPINGNEWS/237016213
Looks like his chin is healing nicely.
Jason,
I’m really sorry for your loss. It is incredible to me that anyone who has been following this case could even attempt to defend this person. He can’t even bring himself to take responsibility for his actions. He can’t stand up in court, be a man, and take responsibility for descimating this family. That makes me sick. As far as I’m concerned, his not guilty plea automatically invalidates his apologists’ claims that he is soooo remorseful and such a great guy. He is selfish, plain and simple. He’s victimizing this family all over again by putting them through a trial in which he will inevitibly be found guilty. If he were a family member of mine his actions wouldn’t stop me from loving him, but I would also understand that he would deserve to be derided for his choices and actions. I’m going out on a limb here and saying that this couldn’t have been the first time he had done this, so it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. There is no defense for what he did.
Okay, how many of YOU out there in the world are PERFECT? How many of YOU have NEVER gotten behind the wheel of a car and drove drunk? How many of YOU NEVER EVER do anything wrong or make stupid mistakes? Well, unless you are a PERFECT HUMAN BEING, ( and I highly doubt that you are, the only PERFECT ONE was JESUS CHRIST!!) so,… unless you are a perfect being, SHUT-UP!!!!!!! PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!!! SHUT YOUR MOUTHS because YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!! Get it???? Remember the Bible folks,…. He who is WITHOUT SIN, CAST THE FIRST STONE! That says it all. Do I feel bad for the victims? Of course I do!!!!! Do I feel bad for their family? Yes, and I also feel bad for Michael, who, in a stupid moment and decision in time and space, committed this horrible tragedy. But do I think he deserves Hell? No way. Thank heaven that GOD ALMIGHTY is the ONE who determines our fate, and not you stupid, ignorant people out there, who think that they could make that decision themselves! My hat goes off to the victim’s families and their compassion and understanding of this tragic situation. Even they, in all of their pain and suffering, realize that this guy did Not set out to murder, kill or harm anyone, that he just made a bad, a very bad choice, to get behind that wheel. I am sure that he is paying for that now, behind bars. His life is over, and he knows it. But there is another life, a much better life, for us all!!!! I am sure that the victims are with GOD now, and one day, Michael will be there too. We all need to Pray and ask for God’s forgiveness, for none of us are any better than the other!!!!!!!
I have never gotten drunk, and therefore I have never drunk-driven. I have never done anything to put someone else in harms way. I have occasionally lied, and I once stole a candy bar. I also cheated on a math test in 7th grade.
Where as there are people who drink drive, kill people, have been busted for possession sometime in the past (So they obviously don’t give a crap about their own braincells, let alone anyone elses), and then stand up in court and plead not guilty. That’s the difference.
–Lindy
You have to confess your sins to be absolved of them. Michael Gagnon just plead not-guilty in a court of law. His lawyer is trying to reach out and offer some kind of settlement to the griffin family. That’s Wergild, that’s blood money.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wergild
“The system was common among the Scandinavian and Teutonic peoples previous to the introduction of Christianity, and a scale of payments, graduated according to the heinousness of the crime, was fixed by laws, which further settled who could exact the blood-money, and who were entitled to share it.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_money_%28term%29
Michael is refusing salvation by refusing to plead guilty to the crimes he committed.
Re-read the passage of the bible where Christ spoke of casting stones, specifically John Chapter 8 verses 2-11.
“go, and sin no more”
Does bearing false witness against yourself sound like sinning no more?
Again, stop appealing to some higher power when dealing with secular justice. The purpose of our legal code is to defend us, and one of the aspects of our punishment system is to give people who have no fear of the normal consequences of their crime something to fear. It’s inherent in our religious systems as well, where we threaten the sinner with the fear of Hell to help them to see a passage of redemption, in the rejection of sin.
That said, Michael will have to find salvation and forgiveness from God, not the people he wronged or the people who demand justice.
Again, I repeat myself, if Christ came to pardon all who have committed crimes, why then did he focus on the conversion of the two thieves rather than their instant and granted release?
Christ’s message is the salvation of the immortal. You’re reading the words wrong if you fail to understand the purpose of that salvation. It doesn’t save you from the Lion’s den physically, it saves your immortality. Here in the secular realm, we’re able even to ask God to grant Michael absolutely no refuge from justice.
I hate this argument in religiosity because you have far less ground to stand on than you possibly could know. You and people like you continue to try to change the venue for Michael’s crimes to one of a spiritual nature. We get to say what we damn well please about him as long as it’s true.
Michael plead Not-Guilty yesterday.
Bethany, Vadie, Lacie, Haley and Jordan are still dead.
Here’s a video of Bethany handing out gift bags at Beau and Lacie’s birthday party.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=26204261
Wait a second. No one has said that they are perfect. Of course I make mistakes and I’m sure everyone else here does as well. I’m not making judgements as to the state of his soul. That is between him and his maker and only he knows if he’s truly remorseful. However, my mistakes don’t cost 5 people their lives. That’s a little more than a “mistake”. As I said before, if he was willing to go driving in that condition on that particular evening, it’s a pretty safe bet that he’s done it before, making that a pattern of behavior and significantly more than a one time mistake. He repeatedly ignored indications that perhaps he shouldn’t be driving. He chose to get keys to someone else’s vehicle and leave that party. He is choosing to plead not guilty when true remorse would make any other person plead guilty if for nothing else than to give the family some measure of peace. I don’t condemn him to hell as I’m not fit for that, but our society can’t tolerate that kind of behavior and I am fit to judge that. If you want to forgive and forget, that’s fine for you. I have absolutely no sympathy or tolerance for drunk drivers and I don’t think I’m in the minority. He deserves to be reviled and he will be.
*raises hand* I have never driven drunk, or even buzzed. I have also never driven under the influence of anything other then being sleepy or angry (which has been very rare and often a short distance.) In your eyes, I guess that makes me perfect. By your response, this means that because humans are fallible that it’s OK to drive drunk or get high and think red means go and run through red lights, or left means right and go the wrong way on an interstate. I’m only human is a poor defense, but is really the only honest defense your friend has. I really wish he had plead guilty, but since he didn’t it will only drag out a lot of pain for the surviving family members.
What if he had plead not guilty by reason of insanity? What if Michael truely is crazy… and was trying to commit suicide that night, but it just so happend he wasn’t the one who was killed? Then yeah he would be legally insane. What if Michael had had a rough few years, and just wanted out of life all together. Would he still be guilty in your eyes?
Wouls it make you feel any better if Michael was in a mental home for a few years, and then released, because he wasn’t ‘legally’ insane anymore?
Seriously… had he plead guilty, he wouldn’t have been given a fair trial, which every person, criminal or not, deserves. I’m sure he didn’t make the decision as to what to plea, that is what a lawyer is for.
“What if he had plead not guilty by reason of insanity?”
He’d lose that case, just like the majority of people who plead not-guilty by reason of insanity do.
“What if Michael truely is crazy… and was trying to commit suicide that night, but it just so happend he wasn’t the one who was killed?”
There are more effective methods for suicide.
“Then yeah he would be legally insane.”
Nope, you should carefully research these statements. Insane is a legal term with a very constrained definition. You can be suicidal and still know the difference between right and wrong.
“What if Michael had had a rough few years, and just wanted out of life all together. Would he still be guilty in your eyes?”
yes
“Wouls it make you feel any better if Michael was in a mental home for a few years, and then released, because he wasn’t ‘legally’ insane anymore?”
No, if he was ever released from a mental home, I’d want to know how they determined he was safe to return to society. There’s a reason they’ll never let Charles Manson out.
“Seriously… had he plead guilty, he wouldn’t have been given a fair trial, which every person, criminal or not, deserves.”
If he had plead guilty, his fair trial would have been over. He did the crime, he should ask for the maximum sentence possible.
“I’m sure he didn’t make the decision as to what to plea, that is what a lawyer is for.”
What he’s probably looking for is a plea deal, and the DA is denying him any sort of offer unless the family of the victims and the victims themselves come forward and plead his case to the DA.
What do you think the weather in hell will be like on that day?
he won’t get the maximum. the most he’ll get is 25 years.
“he won’t get the maximum. the most he’ll get is 25 years.”
let’s see… 5 counts of AVM max for each is 10, composite is 40, let’s call it 6 years each, that’s 30 years.
2 counts of Aggravated Assault, 5 years each, let’s say he only gets half, that’s another 5 years stacked on.
If he antagonizes the judge and asks for a Jury trial, then the judge will be far less lenient in sentencing. Hopefully the full family will get to speak at the sentencing, and then the judge can be swayed to make the penalty the maximum possible and we can be rid of this disease for a few decades.
I feel your pain but it won’t be made a capital oofense. does he deserve the full weight of the law? Yes he does. Does it suck that he survived? Yes it does. Do I think he deserves the full figty years? Yes I do. On the subject of capital punishment however… it will never pass. Murder requries intent, drunken drivers, while playing russian roulette, do not set wake up their morning with the intent of killing someone, including Gagnon, which is why it will never pass. Having said that, He’s 24 now, he doesn’t deserve to see the outside world again until he’s 74.
That’s so so sad…the msgs left on the Mothers My Space page had me in tears.
Watch out! There are Gagnon’s about!!!
From The Toledo Blade:
Mr. Gagnon’s appearance is the second time within the past seven days that a member of the family has faced drunken-driving charges in court. His brother Samuel, 21, pleaded guilty Jan. 11 to a misdemeanor drunken-driving charge in Sylvania Municipal Court. He was arrested Aug. 25 by the Ohio Highway Patrol driving northbound on U.S. 23 between Airport Highway and Central Avenue.
His blood-alcohol content results registered a 0.168 percent.
Mr. Sanders said that the stop was unrelated to Michael Gagnon’s case and that the reason the charge was only recently resolved is because his court dates had been continued so that the trooper could appear.
The younger Mr. Gagnon pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor. He was fined, had his license suspended for six months, and was ordered into alcohol treatment.
Mr. Sanders, who also represented the younger Gagnon brother, said it was Samuel Gagnon’s first offense.
all the ones making laws are drunks. drunks enforcing the laws on drunks. these drunks like mike gagnon have tough jobs and need to unwind.let the drunks bury the drunks. .let the christians go to heaven, christians do not have to forgive non christians. we are in the world but not a part of it.
Unbelievable. I stumbled across this website cause I was so saddened and horrified by this case and wondered what news about it had transpired. To find people actually defending Gagnon is appalling. To find others in some way impugning Mr. Griffin is transcendent in some way that I can’t even understand. It defies belief. If there is not severe punishment in this life for Gagnon then the criminal justice system has surpassed itself yet again in its ability to excuse criminal behavior. I’ll leave the post-life consequences to God…even though this site is apparently devoted in some way to hellish speculations.
My question is, why hadn’t the kid at Taco bell had a half a brain to delay the order for MG? Or why hadn’t the police that were informed that this drunk was at Taco Hell, ask the 7.00/hr kid to DELAY his order so the cops could intercept him? It would have been so simple to just delay his order and give the cops time to get to Taco Bell in time.
Y’know, all this debating and gnashing of teeth is really irrelevant. It doesn’t matter if M.G. was a good man or not. It doesn’t matter who gets labelled as “enablers”. It is very, VERY simple.
One man got stupid drunk, drove and killed almost an entire family. This ONE man did it. HE made the choice to go driving. HE’S the one who fu**ed up. Now he has to pay the piper.
It mystifies me how people can get so drunk and STILL think “HEY it’s a GREAT time to go driving!” when it should be SO obvious, even to the most inebriated, that it’s hazardous to even WALK AROUND, much less operate a vehicle. It’s so stupid. So so STUPID.
I hope this shining specimen of human intelligence gets nailed to the wall for a good long time.
You people are all nuts…Nobody has the right to say anyone is going to hell..That is God’s decision. Michael will be forgiven as will you assholes…I pray for both families involved in this tradegy.
you people all make me sick……….i hope and pray that someday your family never goes through what either one of these familys are going through. you have no idea the facts of anything you wanna go on what you hear in the news when half of that im sure if false, and for you to bash his family, grow the fuck up and get the fuck off your god complex!! im sure your family is the fucking Bradys right so fuckin perfect!
everything that Jason was saying about him…..im sorry do you know him, did you pull his personell file? or did you interview his family and friends? did you talk to him personally to say such horrible things about him? do you call the school to get his transcripts? and where you there at “this white trash family party”? did you sit w/ his family? ooo wait thats right you didnt, i understand that you lost people that you were obviously very very close with, and for that im sure his family feels extreamly sorry and no matter how many times that they say that it will not change what happedned or bring them back, but in the same respect, judgeing and wanting mike dead will not bring them back either, and i know that bethany was a great, possibly amazing person and ask yourself, do you think that she would say the horrible things that you and the rest of this forum is saying, do you think think that your dear friend would sit here and wish death on someone that she has not met…..should he be punished for what he did ABSOLUTLY!! 100% but this WAS NOT premeditated and he did not go after this family. IT was an ACCIDENT, i understand that you are hurting and i would not take that from you in anyway, and that everything you say is out of anger, and justifible, but you can not sit there and make false statements about a person that you have no idea who they are or who they were before this accedent.
Michael will be forgiven as will you assholes…I pray for both families involved in this tradegy.
“those with out sin shall cast the first stone”
Marcia, Marcia, Marcia. He drove drunk. He killed people. These are not judgements; these are truths. What makes it even more atrocious is the fact that he could have stayed right where he was and just passed out there. But he didn’t
Without outrage over actions like these a message is sent to others that such poor judgement carries no stigma. Well, I believe, drinking and driving should carry a stigma. I know a few great people who have gotten behind the wheel when they shouldn’t have, it made me just as angry as it does in this case. They deserved the hassle and expense of a DUI. If these people had killed someone, then I would be the first to want to see them pay. Mr. Gagnon may well be a wonderful person, but the blood on his hands makes it a little hard to have mercy on his soul.
God may forgive assholes; that is his job not ours.
“everything that Jason was saying about him…..im sorry do you know him, did you pull his personell [SIC] file?”
I pulled his criminal record and the police report on this accident.
I followed up with a host of available and legal records. Pulling his school records would be illegal. Pulling the posting of those records by a commercial background check firm is perfectly legal. Facts, I have them, you don’t.
You aren’t Marcia Brady, you’re the same waste of space that’s continuously mangled the English language while you “defended him” throughout this entire “debate.”
You continuously conflate my argument with arguments from others. I’m motivated by feelings but follow through with rational proof and factual findings. I know for example that Michael’s Aunt went to the Spaghetti Fund Raiser for the dead and tried to talk to Danny Griffin and deliver Rick Sanders message, even though the prosecutor in the case told Sanders, the press and the rest of your family to leave them alone. You failed, and there should be consequences for those actions.
The prosecutor is not going to hear a plea agreement in this case. I’m going to spend a portion of the rest of my life trying to get the laws changed so the next Michael Gagnon who drives drunk and kills people is executed. I believe it’s necessary and should have been the case with Michael Gagnon.
As to:
“do you think that she would say the horrible things that you and the rest of this forum is saying, do you think think that your dear friend would sit here and wish death on someone that she has not met”
If she had survived the accident, and Michael Gagnon had still killed her 4 daughters, we’d have carried her into the court room so she could tell it to Michael and you 13 others, in person.
To think that any mother would not want her children’s murderer dead, within 25 days of when they died is rather naive even for you.
Stop wasting your time defending Michael.
Spend that time where you should have spent it before.
Read a book(it will help with your spelling), help get your family off drugs and alcohol, save money to send your kids to better schools than you went to, and understand that what you’re saying isn’t more understanding or more reasonable, it’s absent of any position other than compassion to Michael. You have no compassion for anyone or anything else. That’s a reasonable grounds for insanity.
“100% but this WAS NOT premeditated and he did not go after this family. IT was an ACCIDENT, i understand that you are hurting and i would not take that from you in anyway, and that everything you say is out of anger, and justifible, but you can not sit there and make false statements about a person that you have no idea who they are or who they were before this accedent.”
I wasn’t going to bother to respond to this particular aspect of your argument, but this gauntlet should be thrown down in earnest.
Show us something factual. We have the details that actually paint the picture of his official record. We can see his bad grades, we can see his earlier criminal actions (drunk driving reduced to MIP possibly by Rick Sanders), we can see Alcohol was a family affair(private family section at a family owned bar), a family problem (Samuel’s conviction and is that a charge against his father? Is that how his father was crippled and had to retire from Ford? Tell us it isn’t so; I can’t get all of the details from police reports), and is the accessory Michael used along with the truck to kill 5 people.
I might actually find it in my heart to forgive Michael some day, some time from now, but pleading not-guilty so he can buy some time for his lawyer to “try” and get a plea agreement in place, isn’t winning any sort of forgiveness in the near future.
Marcia/Ashley whoever you actually are, you keep on talking about how we “make you sick,” have you ever stopped for one second to think about what we think about you? Have you ever stopped for one second to realize that you sound just like the nutjobs in the Manson family who defended Charles Manson in the press? Oh wait, you’re too young to remember that aren’t you?
Pay special attention to John in the mask.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FTej_dRmqh4
You people crack me up. There are a few intelligent individuals posting here but the rest are uneducated morons. I’m not particulary interested in what this idiot was like before he wiped out a whole family. That’s not really the point, eh? It’s pretty clear that the issue here is, was he driving drunk? did he kill all those poor babies? From what I am seeing, the answer is YES and YES. End of story. Put him away and let him rot all the while thinking about that tiny baby’s body scattered on the highway. Now THAT is justice!!!
P. S. Paper his cell with pictures from the accident scene. That should give him nightmares for the rest of his sorry life.
He has seen all the pics,does that make you feel better,Kim?And yes he has nightmares every night,does that make you better Kim?
Yup, I am.
Yeah, me too. I will admit that I drink and drive, soda that it or water. When I have my flask (the cup for the drunk on the go), I am walking the streets of Newport, RI in a drunken haze, happy as a fucking clam. I park my car at my friends place and just wander around on foot. Then I crash there and drive back to base when i sober up. The worst thing I’ve done drunk is punch a dude in the nuts.
Now for a list of my other “sins”
1. I dip. Chicks don’t dip, according to the rest of civilized society, so that makes me eee-vil.
2. I have a FWB. (Friend with benefits) Pre-marraige sex is a sin to most Christians. However I do not believe that and I’m a freakin’ Pentecostal!
3. My language can make a drunk marine blush. I swear like a motherfucker. Wooooo, eeee-vil
Am I going to hell? Nope. I commited myself to Christ. I am sure I will take some fire for my comment, but I am what I am and I believe what I believe. Just deal with it. Grow up, ignore the social prejudices and deal with it.
Kevin Tunell killed an 18 year-old girl and after a sentence, and a few other little details he was ordered to send a check for one dollar every Friday for 18 years, as well as serve 6 years of community service trying to prevent drunk driving.
Obviously it wasn’t enough. Michael still got loaded up and killed an entire family. What does it take to get through to people like Michael, Samuel, Ashley and all of the rest?
would a movie help?
http://www.hbofamily.com/apps/schedule/ScheduleServlet?ACTION_DETAIL=DETAIL&FOCUS_ID=551990
Hmmm….one dollar every Friday for 18 years. I calculated that to come out to $936. Not very much for taking someone’s life eh? Sigh….I wonder how much it would be for killing 5 people from ONE family? $5 every Friday? sheesh…that would be something. I’m thinking that isn’t good enough. My wall-papering idea was excellent don’t you think? :) Now THAT would make a person think a whole minute before going out and driving drunk again!!! Then again, maybe not. You can’t cure stupid.
it was the requirement that they be one dollar checks, and getting them in the family’s hands on time.
Kevin tried to get out of it.
“Put him away and let him rot all the while thinking about that tiny baby’s body scattered on the highway.”
The baby wasn’t scattered, she dies at the hospital, just to clarify that.
“The baby wasn’t scattered, she dies at the hospital, just to clarify that.”
Does that make you feel better?
Jordan was tossed under the van, Haley had a hole in her head and Bethany had all of her teeth bashed out, when she was thrown buckled into her seat, 25 feet!
The baby’s neck was broken by the impact. Massive concussion. There would have been nothing the doctors could have done if they’d been there seconds after the freaking accident had happened.
Nothing.
60 mph, 3 times over the legal limit, and in the wrong direction on the interstate for 4+ miles.
He didn’t have the keys in his pocket because the keys were left in the van. He used keyless entry to get in the truck.
Was it you? Were you supposed to be the Designated driver Anonymous?
I log on here every day to read what people are saying.
Jason, you amaze me. I can’t beleive the things that I read from you. I’m not angry at all for what you are saying, but some of what your saying are false statements about our family. Once again, I can not control what you are saying/writing, but some of the things you’ve stated about my family and some of the incidents are not true.
I’ve advised all my family not to post on this blog or any other blog, so I don’t know who this Marsha Brady/Anonymous person is, but it needs to stop. So I’m asking anyone who knows Mike and is posting here, please just stop. I truely understand the need to defend him, but in reality, we can’t. I’m taking my own advice that I gave my family, and this is my first and last posting. Good Day…..
“Jason, you amaze me. I can’t beleive the things that I read from you.”
You can’t believe what I’m saying?
Can you be more specific?
You mean Samuel didn’t have a DUI?
You mean the key wasn’t locked in the car and then Michael didn’t use the keyless entry on the door to get in?
You mean you don’t believe Michael was 3 times over the legal limit, drove the wrong way on the interstate?
You mean you didn’t read the huge number of grammatical errors in your family members’ letters to the press where they stated:
“The sudden and devastating loss of such innocent lives, those that did not have the chance to make much of an impact upon those outside of the immediate family, is a loss of unbearable tolerance. And for this, we are all truly at a standstill to you how we feel right now.”
Did you read these words out loud to hear how they sound?
“much of an impact”
And there you sit in court, all 13 of you, standing behind and up for Michael. You call it a mistake, an accident and worse and you never, ever let him truly take responsibility for his actions.
You continually make those back handed apologies to the press and yet you never stop to think about what you’re actually doing. You’re saying it will be alright for others to do this. You’re offering an example to other families to “stand behind” their criminal in the family. You hired a lawyer to get him out of trouble like he just did for Samuel.
There are people worse than you. I’ll freely admit that. Those Phelps monsters who picket the funerals of war dead, Bethany and the girls, and now Heath Ledger (????? BOGGLE?????) are a factor of magnitude worse than you are, but you keep on doing your evil. You keep on trying to “help” to ease Michael out of the consequences for his actions.
Let him be a man for once and stand up and take responsibility for his actions. He was not and is not a child in any of this so stop protecting him like he is one.
Phelps is the anti-christ. I’m sure of that
Gagnon family since you are reading this, there is no defense for the Monster. What he did will never be forgiven by the public. I can’t believe you waste your time in court supporting him. Let him deal with these murders on his own. Enable him some more, why don’t you. The only way an alcoholic comes to grip with his disease is by fully facing the pain. Coddling that Monster ain’t helping.
Jason has the truth of it down. He knew that what he was doing was wrong, he decided to do it anyways. An entire family would be alive if he would have done what he knew was right and stayed put or let someone else drive. He chose to do something wrong, and the worst possible thing that could happen did. Anyone who drinks and drives knows what could happen. And you can not get so drunk that you don’t know what you’re doing. I’ve been so drunk that I couldn’t hardly walk before and I still managed to know right from wrong.
Abi- you are a moron condemning children to hell- my only consolation is that when Michael Gagnon burns in hell you can sit next to him and hold his hand since you love him so much.
First of all, I think that it is pathetic that he decided to get behind the wheel. Secondly, I cannot even imagine what it feels like for both of the families. I mean, the fact that both of the families are going to have to deal with this horrible tragedy for the rest of tehir lives is quite depressing. It also makes me completely disgusted knowing that those innocent people were killed because of alcohol. If you are going to drink, drink responsibly. Know your limit, and when you start to feel completely belligerent, stop drinking. Do not get behind the wheel of a car! And the fact that he was able to take a vehicle and drive it…. They should have not let him leave taco bell, I would have made sure he did not leave taco bell, in fact I would have drove him back to where he needed to go. I feel so horrible for that family, like I cannot even think of words to express how I feel. That is just horrible!
And to the people leaving retarded comments that have nothing to do with this post, really need to find something better to do with their time. I do not know any of these people involved in this horrific tragedy, I just happened to read about it, and I started crying because it is so sad.
I feel so bad for everyone in both of the families involved. I am so sorry. And to everyone else, if you choose to drink just have a designated driver for the love of god!
I just looked at the Rodeo Bar myspace website… I am truly shocked. When the page loads it is nothing but bottles of hard booze at first. I think this is a revised website too since I was on their right after the murders…
It just seems so incredibly wrong to have such a website like this after what happened. It is almost like they are making a mockery of the tragedy?
From the Toledo Blade
Rodeo Bar owners face drug charges
Steroids found on site after fatal I-280 crash
By MEGHAN GILBERT
BLADE STAFF WRITER
Three owners of the Rodeo Bar and Grill in Oregon have been charged criminally for storing steroids and syringes at the business.
Michael Yousif, 26, of 2917 Riva Ridge Rd., Ottawa Hills; Johnathan Roumaya, 23, of 3140 Shoreland Ave., Washington Township, and Glenn Murdzia, 22, of 1645 Longfellow Drive, Temperance, were charged by Oregon police with drug offenses after a search warrant served earlier this month in the wake of a wrong-way crash on I-280 that killed a mother and four children.
All three face misdemeanor charges of permitting drug abuse.
Mr. Yousif, who was present during the search, also faces charges of possession of dangerous drugs and possession of drug abuse instruments, both misdemeanors.
He also has a felony drug charge for unapproved drugs because one of the items found, Clenbuterol, is a steroid used in meat production that’s banned in the United States.
The Rodeo Bar and Grill, 3150 Navarre Ave., is believed to be where Michael Gagnon, 24, of Adrian was drinking prior to getting onto I-280 the wrong way on Dec. 30 and crashing the pickup he was driving into a van.
Mr. Yousif and Mr. Roumaya are listed on the Rodeo Bar’s liquor license. The license could be revoked because Clenbuterol, the human growth hormone Jintropin, and hypodermic syringes were found in a closed filing cabinet in a basement office.
The Ohio Department of Public Safety’s investigative unit cited the establishment for improper conduct for drug possession and improper conduct for drug paraphernalia possession.
After the investigation is complete, the business will have a hearing before the Liquor Control Commission, which can make a decision ranging from dismissing the case to revoking the license.
Authorities initially searched the bar for videotapes, receipts, bar tabs, financial records, and employee records as part of the crash investigation, and then came across the steroids.
The investigation into items from the search continues, said Lindsay Komlanc, a spokesman for the Ohio Department of Public Safety.
The bar owners are to appear in Oregon Municipal Court on Feb. 26 on the criminal charges.
The charges were filed Wednesday. The men were arraigned the same day and released on their own recognizance.
Toledo attorney John Potts, who is representing the owners, said the drugs found in the bar were personal-use quantities and he’s not convinced the evidence shows that Mr. Yousif was in possession of them.
He was charged with the possession offenses because he was at the desk of the bar’s office area during the search and the items were found in a file cabinet directly to his right, according to court documents.
The items found are listed as a blister pack containing nine tablets of Clenbuterol, a bottle with liquid Clenbuterol, several vials of the human growth hormone Jintropin, and a bag containing syringes and more human growth hormone.
“They are basically body-building drugs,” Mr. Potts said. “The information available indicated that the quantity of substances found are user quantities and there have been no allegations of sales or trafficking.”
Mr. Potts said that the three owners, two managers, and 25 employees of the bar had access to the office and that the drugs were in a “junk drawer.”
Mr. Potts said his clients are cooperating with authorities throughout the investigation because they feel awful about everything that’s happened.
He described the bar owners as young men who work hard.
“They feel terrible,” he said. “These guys are just traumatized by this.”
The family in the van was heading back to the Baltimore area after visiting relatives in the Detroit area when the crash occurred.
Bethany Griffin, 36; Jordan Griffin, 10; Lacie Burkman, 7; Haley Burkman, 10, and Vadie Griffin, 8 weeks, were killed. The driver of the van, Danny Griffin, Jr., 26, and his daughter, Sydney Griffin, 8, were hurt seriously. Another passenger, Beau Burkman, 8, had minor injuries.
Mr. Gagnon has pleaded not guilty in Lucas County Common Pleas Court to five counts of aggravated vehicular homicide and two counts of aggravated vehicular assault.
He is being held in the county jail in lieu of a $1.75 million bond and faces up to 50 years in prison if he is convicted on all charges.
God ALONE will judge this man, Michael Gagnon. Sorry folks, but THIS IS JUST PRETEND.. and I thank God that none of you will ever decide the destination of this man’s.. or anyone’s immortal soul. Is there anyone who didn’t know that?
Well, gosh Grace. I’m all disappoited and stuff now. I thought for SURE I was going to get to decide this guy’s fate. Thanks for ruining my damn day!!!
LOL! kim
:)
This is pretend?
*ring*
Hello Satan? Yeah, it’s me again…so…about all those guys I’ve been condemning to hell on that website? Yeah. Well apparently that website wasn’t really your portal to Hell. Yeah I know right? Well I guess I’ll have to borrow that Dirt Devil afterall. Sorry boss. Yeah. So how’s the wife and kid doing? Oh yeah, sorry to hear that, hope her burn gets better. OK, I’ll talk to you later, bye.
hahahhahaha This one cracked me up!! Take THAT, Eric. Yes, I laughed at Kenny who was being facetious just for YOU!!! Bite me.
Nebraska Mom, kenny and kim — why don’t you grow up and leave this post! You three are worst scum than who were talking about.
Ok fine. I’ll leave this post since you told me to. Wait. You are NOT the boss of me. And I am NOT scum thank you very much. Quit crying and YOU grow up. Ever heard of freedom of speech? Geez.
Eric-WTF are you talking about? Is my LOL at kim really that offensive to you? I so, LOL! LOL! to Kim :) I have yet to weigh in on this POS and his POS family. They defend him to no means as if this family were the ones at fault for being there, on their side of the road. This family really need to take a good hard look at themselves and ask themselves how they would feel if it were Mike, his brother and the cousins who were ’smashed’ to bits while driving down the road by some drunken asshole. They would want that person to go straight to HEll, don’t not pass go do not collect your $200. No I have not thought to comment on this yet because I felt Jason, Glory, Brittany Kim and the rest of the POS condemers were doing a fine job. But, now I will put my thoughts into the mix so that you can pass judgement and call me scum with actually having something to back that opinion up. Although I don’t think that I am scum, mushless worse than Mike and his clan of druckers (drunk fuckers, for those not from Nebraska) HGH using/selling losers whom defy all that’s great in the world. That’s the problem with people like Mike, as long as someone (anyone) sticks up for them they think that whatever choices they make, no matter how it affects innocent people, they think they will forgiven! Maybe he won’t go to hell, maybe God will forgive him, maybe Jesus did die on a cross for his sins. I really don’t know these things, I have yet to experience meeting these spirits, what ever they are, and getting it straight from them. But, on the other hand, I know how the human mentallity works, and I am no different than most level-headed clear non-jilted people and I vote “Hell” for him and if that’s how I truely feel there is no way of changing that, No Matter how immature you think I am and you can call me all the names you want, until I see or hear evidence differing from what Jason has so kindly made available to me, Mike is still a Piece Of Shit in my book. Some of his supports are saying that HE doesn’t deserve to die or give up his life or even go to HELL for that matter, well that is their opinion. They can have it. I don’t care. In MY opinion Bethany and her children DID NOT deserve what MIKE did to them! He did this all on his own! I was not there twisting his scrawny assed arms. I didn’t tell him to “go get some Taco Bel and by the way, Kill almost a whole fucking family in the process!” If I were there, which I would hang out with this spectrum of LOSERS, I most certainly would NOT have given him the keys. He got them from someone, it wasn’t like he drove him own vehicle. Maybe he stole the truck and that would make him a thief also. So if the ’slaughtering of a family’ doesn’t qualify him for Hell then the whole “Thou shalt NOT steal” thing should. Right? Regardless, It was HIS CHOICE to drive therefore it was HIS CHOICE to kill these people. He needs to take responsibility for that and own it. His family and friends can’t do that for him, It’s ALL his.
Oh and by the way, I could really care less of what you think of me! But be assured I will post alot more now that I know it upsets you! hahahahahaha!!!!!!
woohoooooo NM!!! You GO girl!! I was trying to figure out what you posted that made you scum along with me and Kenny, but all you did was laugh at me. You do that alot so I guess you are just a big ol’ scum bucket. hahahahah. This guy is nuts. We have to learn to ignore the lesser of our species, I suppose. It’s hard to do sometimes, ain’t it? hahahha.
Kim- yea, I guess according to Eric we’re even bigger scum than Murderous Mike. I just don’t get people sometimes. oooo…like at me the big ol’ scum bag! Does that make my ol’ mad a scum sucker? eeehem, I mean Scum Fucker? LOL!!! ya know that kinda makes me horney. Now I’m gonna go get laid, which is something that Good ol’ Murderous Mike won’t be doing with a female for quite awhile. Hahahahaha!! Justice for me!!!
Well maybe if Eric gets conjy’ visits with him, cuz Eric sounds like a Pussy too me! LOL!!!
You guys are taking this out of hand. Get your panties in a bunch all you want. This place is for opinion, we are not making anyones fate. lmfao
Eric? Worse scum then who we’re talking about? You wound me sir. Your words on an internet comment site about a person guilty of multiple homicide and saying I am worse the he just does the damage of a knife, really.
OK, so I exaggerate, but let’s look at in perspective there ok? Eric? Bite my foreskin off.
Eric, are you Mike’s “friend” too?
Coming here to defend him because you knew him and don’t care if he killed anyone?
So Silly. All this talk about ‘fate’ and all.
And the uproar caused by anonymous people about what should be the fate of other people.
Silly, because every one of these people decides their own fate the second they decide to abuse/molest/rape/murder or get behind the wheel when they’re drunk. Of course, while they’re at it, they also are selfishly deciding other innocent people’s fate at the same time.
Try getting offended about that for a change. You might find it feels a little more logical and natural than wasting your time spewing about people whose comments on a wesite don’t actually decide anyone’s fate.
And, if you can’t manage to figure out how to do that, why not expend your energy working to get criminal law changed so that drunk drivers, murderers, pedos and the like can get their little wrists slapped a little lighter… work to repeal ALL criminal prosecution, and just let the ‘big guy’ make all the judgments after they and all their victims are dead.
Oh, I thought not. Even the holier-than-thou’s seem to always have some ‘pet’ crime they appreciate criminals being prosecuted, judged and punished for.
______________
Kenny- I can appreciate the generous offer you made Eric… eek! But guys have always told me that’s a painful operation, teeth or no teeth. Have they all just been joshing me?
c
Jason and Kenny – you both are urine bags in my book. grow the fuck up and get the hell off this site. You both are nothing but dog shit to me
Eric, if I am dogshit I hope you step on me so I may stay with you forever…it’s impossible to get that crap out of your shoes!!!
*off topic* GB-I’m told it hurts like hell after you have grown, that’s why they do it to babies now, since they are already in constant pain anyway I guess what’s just one more thing? They heal quickly and, as anyone that’s been bit there would tell you, it’ sensitive but heals quickly anyway.
Jason,
Thank you very much for clarifying just about all of the why’s I keep asking myself. I did not know any of them personally. Bethany was on groups that I belonged to. We all miss her and her children so very much. We will always cherish the beautful pictures of her children and sharing special moments in her life. She was a wonderful person, mother & friend to everyone she met.
The why I still keep asking is you have not mentioned anything about Lacie or Sydney. Where were they in the van? What happened to Lacie? I know Sydney survived but how? Thank God that at least Danny, Beau & Sydney survived. I hope their injuries heal faster then the pain that was caused my one careless mistake too many!!
Sydney was still in the car when Dan found her; she’s still alive so I don’t want to talk about her injuries. They’re personal and private to her and her family, but they were critical and she rode through them like a champion.
Beau was protected by a shell of material within the car. He was unscathed(thankfully and miraculously), and because of vagaries in Ohio law, the Prosecutor in the case did not pursue an Assault or Aggravated assault case against Michael on Beau’s behalf. For Beau, he gets off free of charges.
When the conversations came to Lacie, I could not go there, I could not ask that question or read the material and even skipped a bit of it, I know where she was sitting and that she died shortly after impact. I see these pictures in my mind of this happy, beaver sawed(not an insult, she had pretty, adult front teeth that shone through her smile) girl in a witch outfit, a cheerleader outfit, or a mermaid princess outfit. In my nightmares, I can see what happened to all of the rest, and it’s bad enough, but I have a pretty good block about Lacie. I don’t know and I freely admit to not ever wanting to go there.
She was asleep, as was everyone else except for Dan. I have to keep on thinking about that or I will hold onto this anger forever.
Jason,
Thank you for letting me know. I did not mean to pry in any way so please do not think that was my intent. It was simply closure for myself. I completely understanding your not wanting to talk about it but in the same sense needing your own closure. I did feel much better knowing they were all asleep. My daughter reminds me very much of Lacie and I think that’s why this has bothered me so much. Also seeing posts from Bethany not so long ago really bothered me as well.
It has however made me want to change laws. I have written to the correct people here and am currently waiting for my replies. I have also joined an on line chapter for Bethany and the girls. I’m not sure how many states are participating but there will be a walk for the Griffin-Burkman family in July.
Thanks again and I’m so very sorry for your loss!!
i still feel that dwi laws should be strictly enforced. too many families have been devastated just like this.
I am going to talk out my ass for a bit because I have no idea what I am talking about. First in my opinion he deserves to die. Why, because it was premedatated. Nope, he didn’t plan to kill my family that night but he knew he could kill someone that night. Well, how did he know this you ask. Now some info I hvae is just hearsay and his family can argue it, if they dare. My understanding is that he has been pulled over for DUI’S and his brother as well. I ask the family to tell me that they never sat around and had the YOU COULD HAVE KILLED SOMEONE TALK. Has he ever watched the news and saw where someone drank to much and killed someone. I am sure he was well aware of what drinking and drinking could do.
You see I am sure he has drank many times as have most of us. The thing is from the first, to the second, to the third and on and on he was at a stage where he was in control and decided on his own to continue drinking to that point that he was familiar with and get drunk. You see most of us drink and when we get to a point we say well that’s enough for me I have to drive home. The difference is some people say screw it and order another drink. He was in control and he knew that having more and more drinks would put everyone at risk when he got behind the wheel and drove. Being drunk is his defense, getting drunk was his choice.
His family isn’t going to respond anymore Jack. If I knew you or anyone else wanted to weigh in, I’d have sent you the link. You more than I had a right to get some answers and wring some feeling out of this. If you want, you can get my phone number from Dino and we can talk it out and I can show you the other places on the internet where these morons were and were not countered, but this one shows up top of the list in Google for a lot of good reasons.
Jack, his family continues to defend him online.
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=307161215&blogID=358156264
Apparently, the particular blog post in the link above has been made unavailable to public viewing.
with good reason
It was headed in the wrong direction.
I know this post is a bit late for this forum thread.. My heart goes out to the victims family. And I agree, Michael should die.
“comment number 236 by: Eric
February 11th, 2008 at 8:11 am
Jason and Kenny – you both are urine bags in my book. grow the fuck up and get the hell off this site. You both are nothing but dog shit to me”
And who the fuck do you think you are to anyone else? Trust me pal, no one gives a fuck about your dumbass.
Jason had some great advice for the Gagnon family/friends that needs repeating:
“Stop wasting your time defending Michael.
Spend that time where you should have spent it before.
Read a book(it will help with your spelling), help get your family off drugs and alcohol, save money to send your kids to better schools than you went to, and understand that what you’re saying isn’t more understanding or more reasonable, it’s absent of any position other than compassion to Michael. You have no compassion for anyone or anything else. That’s a reasonable grounds for insanity.”
POS mother is defending him on a myspace page. Judging by her grammar, she sounds like a big drunk too.
Clara keep responding online and that hole will get deeper. Your family is stupid beyond words.
MURDERER = MIKE GAGNON.
I would like to see that website
It’s amazing how so many people will be so quick to feed us all of their B.S. when it comes to tragedies like this, especially when some of the victims are children. I will begin by offering my condolences and prayers to the Griffin & Burkman Families. Secondly the same to Michael Gagnon and his family. The media will sensationalize this tragedy to the bitter end because these kinds of stories appeal to the genral public and sells papers. They will also likely misreport a lot of the facts and society in its naivety will beleive everything they read. The high ranking officials, politicians, members of M.A.D.D. and all other self rightious groups will have their say so as well and most of it will be for publicity, and of course all of them will pass judgement on Mr. Gagnon without even knowing anything about him. The prosecutor and judges and others responsible for taking legal action against him will sock it to him as hard as they can, especially if they are elected to the positions for with which they serve the public, and in fact will dish out a more severe sentence to him than they would to a habitual gang member or other thug with multiple offenses because of the pressures from the media,M.A.D.D., and the general public. In fact I would even go so far as to say that his attorney will probably tell him that he would have been able to get him off with less time if he would have pulled out a gun and shot all of the victims. There is no such Group as Mothers against Gang Violence because it has become a more acceptable crime(maybe because we as a society believe that it is OK to commit a crime if a person is cognizant as to what they are doing, more on this later regarding drivers). If the public of Ohio asks these same people to include the media, M.A.D.D., elected officals and the general public to take on the liquor lobby to pass laws to make it more difficult for people to by liquour conveniently the majority of them will balk at attempting such a task. In 2006 across the U.S.A there were almost 18,000 vehicular homicides which involved alcohol, but there were also many, many more which involved drivers who were driving irresponsibly and carelessly while using their cell phone, putting on their makeup, shaving, reading, eating, disicplining children, etc.,etc.,etc.,,and the people behind the wheel were cognizant of the fact that they weren’t paying attention to the task at hand, but it’s OK with us as a society because unlike the drunk driver they knew what they were doing. Where is the logic in that???? I would bet that at least 75% of the poeple or more whom are passing judgment and condemning Mr. Gagnon have or still drive while drinking or doing something else which constitutes careless and negligence driving, so they better take a good look at themselves before they cast the first stone. With tragedies like this one there are no winners. All of us lose except for those that profit from the only legal mind-altering drug in this God Loving and God fearing country of ours. God Bless.
1st off Caffeine is a mind altering drug(psychoactive stimulant in fact), but what you choose to do with it and how you choose to use it is what helps to determine how it affects you. There are in fact dozens of mind altering substances that are sold over the counter or come out of your faucet at home.
Mind alterations are primarily, however, the voluntary acceptance of one state over another through drink.
Michael Gagnon was not the first DUI that killed someone. He will not be the last. The penalties have stepped up consistently because the problem is not something the typical victims can avoid. You do not and cannot expect a guy 3 times the legal limit to come driving the opposite side of the highway for 4 miles to slam into your mini-van. You can choose to not enter or live in gang territory. You can choose not to engage in criminal activity, but how can you choose not to be hit by a drunk driver?
The responsibility was on Michael Gagnon to party responsibly. He could not do that and now the state will decide his fate, just as surely as if he had fired the gun, he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. If you yourself drink and drive, you should also be arrested, have your license taken from you and your citizenship rights reduced to those of a felon. Driving drunk, regardless of how many people do it is an obvious sign to society that you don’t know how to be a responsible adult and are not ready for freedom or any other responsibility that free citizens posses.
That’s why Michael Gagnon will go to jail. That’s why every other DUI should go to jail.
That’s why your defense of this crime in “context” fails so miserably.