Charles Lee Thornton
Usually people like 50-year-old Charles Lee Thornton live in Florida, the land of the hanging chads.
Charles “Cookie” Thornton lived in Kirkwood, Missouri (yes, that Kirkwood Missouri) and was one of “those” people. Charles Thornton was the type of guy who buys a house with a neighborhood association, knowing the association has rules, but he ignores those rules because he wants a purple house and wants to prove to himself that freedom of speech still exists in the United States. No purple house? No freedom of speech.
And, to Charles Thornton’s mind, if the city prevented him from doing what he wanted with his own property, then they were communist bastards who were stomping all over his rights.
Charles Thornton’s biggest beef was with the zoning commission of the city. Charles ran a contracting business from his house and received more than 150 tickets for storing materials that didn’t meet code. Over three years, Charles Thornton had over $15,000 in tickets, with a large portion of those fines due to his trucks being parked illegally.
You’d think that maybe, just maybe, a businessman would, after getting the first 100 tickets, take steps to make sure everything was in code – but apparently that didn’t occur to Charles Thornton.
He wanted to be on the city council, however. Going through the records of the local newspaper, a list of “Candidates seeking Mayoral seats, spots as trustees, aldermen,” and “council members” that was published on the 14th of February, 1994 listed “Charles “Cookie” Thornton, 351 Attucks Street” as a candidate for one of the three seats then open on the Kirkwood City Council.
You know you’re a serious candidate when you put “Cookie” on your application.
So yes, Charles Lee Thornton was the fly in the city of Kirkwood, Missouri’s ointment, and you can be sure that every time Charles Thornton would walk into one of the city council meetings, everyone would bow their heads and groan.
Charles Thornton would often make outbursts at city council meetings.
In May of 2006, Charles Thornton went up to the podium during a public comment portion of the city council meeting that was supposed to address the expansion of two businesses – a funeral home and a senior living facility. Charles Thornton didn’t, of course, talk about either one of those businesses, instead talking about what he felt was personal harassment of him by city officials. Charles Thornton held up a large poster with a picture of a donkey and started making personal insults towards Mayor Mike Swoboda.
Ahh, politics in a small town. Gotta love it.
After insulting the Mayor, Charles Thornton told the funeral home owner that the city had a plantation-mentality and jackass-like qualities.
Charles sat down when he was done and waited for the public comments to be opened up after the presentation about the senior living center. Taking the podium a second time for the night, he said the mayor was “sitting there looking stupid” and went on and on about how he was being persecuted.
Eventually everyone got tired of Charles Thornton and the police were called, who came and asked Thornton to leave. Charles Thornton took this opportunity to stage his own personal sit-in, flopping down on the ground and telling the police that he wasn’t going to leave.
Charles Thornton was dragged out of the hall, arrested and convicted of disorderly conduct. The state appeals court has yet to rule on that conviction.
Charles Thornton also attended the June city council meeting of the same year, again getting up to speak during the public comment portion.
His sum total of his contribution to the discussion?
Jackass, Jackass, Jackass, Jackass, Jackass, Jackass, Jackass, Jackass, Jackass.
Again, the police were called to remove Charles Thornton, who again, sat on the floor, was arrested and convicted of disorderly conduct.
This time, Charles Thornton filed a federal lawsuit, stating that his First Amendment rights had been violated. Unfortunately, U.S. District Judge Catherine D. Perry disagreed with Charles Thornton in her opinion, written on the 28th of January, 2008 in Thornton versus. City of Kirkwood. She decided that the public comment portion of the meetings could be considered as a limited designated public forum that the city could reserve for certain groups and topics of discussion. She did not think that the public comment portion of the city meetings was a traditional public forum in which anyone could criticize the government in whatever manner they chose, and this included repeating “Jackass” until you’re arrested.
According to the FirstAmendmentCenter.org website:
She noted that there was substantial confusion in the lower courts over the terms limited public forum and designated public forum. Perry ruled that a limited designated public forum is a subclass of a designated public forum in which restrictions on speech must be reasonable and viewpoint-neutral.
As the meeting was a limited designated public forum, Kirkwood had the right to restrict the topic of discussion to the expansion of two businesses,Perry wrote. Rather than addressing germane subject matter, Thornton engaged in personal attacks against the mayor, Kirkwood, and the city council.
Any restrictions on Thornton’s speech were reasonable, viewpoint neutral, and served important governmental interests, Perry wrote. Because Thornton does not have a First Amendment right to engage in irrelevant debate and to voice repetitive, personal, virulent attacks against Kirkwood and its city officials during the comment portion of a city council public hearing, his claim fails as a matter of law.
Ok, so your federal lawsuit has failed. What else can you do? Where can you go? What’s the next step?
Armed insurrection, of course!
After telling his family that he loved them, and “To God be the glory,” at about seven in the evening, on the seventh of February, 2008, Charles “Cookie” Thornton attended what would be his last city council meeting.
Walking towards the building housing the city council meeting, Charles Thornton shot a police officer, William Biggs, dead as he was standing outside city hall, then took Officer Biggs’ .40 caliber handgun out of the officer’s belt holster.
Despite guns not being allowed in the Kirkland, Missouri city hall, Charles Thornton carried both his silver revolver and the officer’s duty weapon inside.
Then, after walking through the doors of city hall, Charles Thornton entered the city council meeting room and announced “Shoot the mayor!” while walking around the room and firing a few shots at random people while selecting the best angle to kill the Mayor from.
Police officer Tom Ballman was shot in the head at this point, and nobody else in the meeting was armed, so…
Charles Thornton first went after Public Works Director Kenneth Yost, who Charles Thornton especially hated, shooting him in the head.
Despite City Attorney John Hessel throwing chairs at him, a determined Charles Thornton moved around the big city council desk and opened fire, hitting a number of people, including the Mayor and a reporter, and killing Councilwoman Connie Karr and Councilman Michael H.T. Lynch.
Other police officers, who had been summoned by the alert tone that Officer William Biggs sounded on his radio before he died, arrived at the council chambers with guns drawn. Charles Thornton’s temper tantrum ended as the police shot and killed him. His body was found in a far corner of the council chambers, behind a desk.
Gerald Thornton, Charles Thornton’s grieving brother, felt that what his brother did was right:
He has spoken on it as best he could in the courts, and they denied all rights to the access of protection and he took it upon himself to go to war and end the issue. The only way that I can put into context that you might understand is that my brother went to war tonight with the people, the government that was putting torment and strife into his life. No one wants to see loss of life over issues that should’ve been solved. We have educated people over there and they should’ve been able to see the things they were doing should’ve came to an end sooner.
Mr. Charles Thornton’s mother, while giving an interview to a local television station, said that Kirkwood officials had kept after her son, giving him tickets for everything they could. She said she never suspected that her son would be violent but described the events as an act of God, just like a storm or a tornado.
Right. Using a gun to shoot a few innocent people and getting yourself shot and killed in the process is just like a storm or a tornado.
Oh yes. Gerald Thornton has been added to the poll now, since he’s basically smirking that his brother was able to strike back at his “tormentors.”
And the race card has been played, as Gerald Thornton has told the press that African Americans like himself and Charles Thornton have a harder time defending their rights than white people do, and that his brother’s race was the reason for his difficulties with the city and in the courts.
So basically, what we’re seeing here is that the entire Thornton family are a bunch of idiots.
Does Charles Lee Thornton deserve Hell?
- Yes - he shot and killed innocent people! (78%, 319 Votes)
- No - he shot and killed the man! (22%, 90 Votes)
Total Voters: 409
Loading ...Does Gerald Thornton deserve Hell?
- Yes (59%, 186 Votes)
- No (41%, 128 Votes)
Total Voters: 314
Loading ...
106 Comments »
I was wondering on my way in listening to the local AM News Channel if this was going to be here.
Why do the crazy nut balls have to take others with them when they finally decide to die?
Oh, and Mrs. Thornton, I’ve been given way too many traffic tickets so I’m going to go in and shoot up the police station and kill a bunch of people because I have been wronged!! NOT. Give me a freaking break. He wouldn’t have gotten ticketed if he hadn’t been doing anything wrong, over and over again. Give me a freaking break. “My son was wronged” is basically what she’s saying, right? I’m seriously rolling my eyes at the dumbasses in the world.
People just LOVE to play the victim. This guy gets no sympathy because what he did was stupid and outright vicious. He shot innocent people because he didn’t get his way- aww POOR BABY!! I am so glad the cops took care of him so my taxes don’t pay to house and feed this piece of shit.
Seriously, Mr. Thorton sounds like he might have been a paranoid schizophrenic. Delusions of persecution, anyone? Not that that excuses his actions, I just wonder if he had any documented psychiatric history. It will come out in time I’m sure.
It might come out in time, but that in no way makes me feel sorry for him. Like I have posted before, retards and crazy people get no sympathy from me. If they kill someone, they deserve the same punishment “normal” people get. HELL. End of story. :)
Sounds like the guy should’ve moved to some distant outpost in a rural area (there are tons of them 40 to 60 miles from where he was living).
He’d have all the land he’d like to park his vehicles.
He’d have to learn to like the taste of well water and the intricacies of a septic system, but then he could leave the rest of humanity alone.
As sometimes happens, the actions of one have ruined (and ended) the lives of so many others.
As I told one “African-American” when I was in college who was playing the race card to as to get service ahead of other people “It’s not racial, it’s personnel…. It aint the color of the bag, it’s the trash with in that offends” I also let this girl know that she’d be a bitch no matter what color she was.
In short, Thorton family, America is not as racist as you want us to be, we just simply hate assholes no matter what color your skin may be.
Yeah I agree, people like playing the victim.
Like this one dancer who just got fired: She was coming down off a good speed trip and well half assed her routine and then puked in front of everyone at the DJ booth and then went on to ask for a month off. Well they have a HUGE anniversary show coming up in 2 weeks and all they said was not to miss the show. Well she took that as “oh my god, I’m the one who got sick and they’re gonna give me shit about the anniversary show”. Playing the victim.
This guy was a little more extreme, however I can’t stand the people who can’t own up. I mean come one, if you’re going to get a parking ticket once for parking incorrectly and then you go and do it again, and again, and well again, you’re not allowed to play the victim….
HUH?? Holy ‘going off on a tangent” batgirl…….
Not sure how it relates to someone shooting multiple people.
Uh oh, Fred said “assholes”. According to one poster, that’s grounds for Hell. Sorry Fred! And Amen to what you said about hating them no matter what color they are. There are murderers, etc. in every race. I’m not prejudiced against color, it’s the offense I’m prejudiced against.
playing the racist card is just trying to find an excuse for the unexcusable.
Brittany, that is very true.
We have a lot of Indians here in South Dakota. The other day I came across one at work (my secondary job) and I was selling ciggs. at the register. I asked an indian male if I could see his I.D. (he was buying for a native female that was beside him and I am required to as for the other persons I.D also). Anyway, I asked her for her I.D. too and the guy got furious with me! He yelling out, “You won’t sell them to me because I am a Prarie ni**e*!” I looked at him in shock and told him to get out of the story. Five minutes later, this girls mother came into the store trying to buy the same cigga. and I refused her. She also got very upset and yelled at me also, saying I was racist just like everyone else.
I’m sorry, but I am sooo sick of people saying stupid stuff like that. It doesn’t make any sense to me. I have a job and I have rules, you know what I mean? If I get caught selling to a minor, I get a large fine. (We have a lot of government people send kids in to get ciggs. so we get busted and what not.)
Disagree with some people’s viewpoints about mental illiness but that’s for another forum. He deserves hell and so does his family. The only real vicitms here are the people he murdered. Period, end of sentence.
This guy was a crazy piece of shit. I am originally from St. Louis and when I read on the Post-Dispatch website about his family saying he was going to war, his neighbors saying he was a victim of racism and other b.s., it just made me sick. Sure he was pissed he got tickets, but he was breaking the law. When I park at a meter and don’t put money in, I know that I might have a ticket waiting when I get back–will I kill the meter maid or the city council if I continue to do so and don’t feel like paying up . . . Absolutely NOT! This guy deserves the big burn and I have no doubt that’s where he is at. FYI–it is Kirkwood, MO.
Once again, some jackass that can’t follow simple rules or accept responsibility for theiy own behavior kills. Sweet. Then the family leaps to his defense. They’re bigger assholes – rubbing salt into the wound. There’s no justification for what Charles did and even less justification for defending him.
Playing the race card? If you have a chip on your shoulder like that and see racism where there is none tells me you’re the one that’s racist.
Saying you can’t get ahead because whitey is holding you down is bull. You can’t get ahead because you’re stupid and have to blame others for your shortcomings.
I have no tolerance for this shit. We have enough problems without assholes driving a wedge between races.
I hate to say this but Mr. Thorton was right! Before you go off, lets look at America’s past(just a couple of year(s) we wont go thru America’s history) Look at those kid(s) that were going to school(s) to shoot the place up(because of bullies) innocent kid(s) died! In this case, the bully was city hall, people now day(s) are getting tired of everything rising except for life! So before you judge(quit using race) people are getting tired of the bully, and sometimes when you go after the bully, there are innocent people that are in your way!
As far as the race card, and blaming this guy(s) family, the last time I check white people never want black(s) to play the race card even when it does matter(a different day to discuss this-race issuse) When you hear little kid(s) making bombs in home(s) to blow something up for there own amusement and police find 20 guns on a young person, do you say race and blame the family? No you say this person has a illness, this person is sick, this person needs help, were are we suppose to get help from when we have Vets that fight for this country, that cant get help!! We can scream for help or even call for help(911) but sometimes that not enough, we dont value life anymore, wwe dont care as a people anymore! We have become a country of people there care just for our own and that is what this has come down too….A man just caring for himself….and not his fellow countryman!!! And if a person in someone family has committed a crime, quit f$$king blaming the family!! If I sell drug(s) and people are buying the drug(s) I go to jail, not my family….so if I commit a crime, Ill go to hell, not my family!!!
The thing most people don’t get is that the city of Kirkwood has aggressively gone after the black population in their town. They have used eminent domain laws to seize most of the black neighborhood. This has been a despicable practice on the part of the City of Kirkwood. The blacks are under attack and that would not be a pleasant thing if I was in their shoes.
This guy didn’t have a few tickets, ..he had $20,000 dollars worth, most of which where placed on his work trucks when he was out of town for a vacation. They put a new round of tickets on his seven trucks everyday he was gone. Their is no doubt in my mind that the city was harassing him.
It does not justify the violence, but I can understand Cookies anger. If you had driven past that neighborhood for the past 30 years like I have, you would be able to clearly see that the blacks of Kirkwood have been under attack. Their neighborhood is almost totally gone now. Clearly Kirkwood does not want blacks in their community and I’m sure the black people living there are well aware of it. It is just not right what is going on there.
As for passing judgment on Cookie, that is Gods job and you will be better off leaving that judgment to him.
Bill has said it right.
“Charles Thornton’s biggest beef was with the zoning commission of the city. Charles ran a contracting business from his house and received more than 150 tickets for storing materials that didn’t meet code. Over three years, Charles Thornton had over $15,000 in tickets, with a large portion of those fines due to his trucks being parked illegally.”
I am going to guess that this means that all the ‘non-blacks’ in the neighborhood ignored zoning laws, stored materials that did not meet codes in residential areas, and parked their vehicles illegally all the time…… but they were never fined or prosecuted, simply because they were not black?
The previous home I owned was in an area of extremely mixed ethnicities as well as age groups and sexual preferences.
I had a nice little California Bungalow that I kept well, gardened in a lot, and I was rather fond of my neighborhood. I had a driveway, as did every other one of my neighbors. There is a city ordinance against parking vehicles anywhere besides the driveway or street. I parked my car in my driveway, as did most of my neighbors. Some, however, did not. They chose to park their cars on their dead grass front lawns. Some, permanently, as they were broken down. We also have ordinances prohibiting loud music after 10pm, or allowing dogs to bark constantly after 10pm, which most of my neighborhood respected. Not surprisingly, the people who played loud music until 2am and allowed their dogs to bark all night… until numerous neighbors called the police on them, were the same people who thought broken down cars were attractive lawn ornaments, even though illegal.
Now, were my neighbors and I, who respected our neighborhood and our city laws, just being racist for singling these particular people out to call the police and city enforcers on? Were we just harrassing people because we didn’t like a particular ‘race’ being in our neighborhood? Were we being discriminatory when we reported the white people who were dealing drugs out of their house?
I understand that there are racist people, and that racist does not mean ‘white people who hate blacks’ like so many people think. I also understand that in any race there will be people who think the rules aren’t meant for them, even though they are reasonable and everyone else can abide by them. And, that those rule-breakers love to blame their problems on ‘racism’ instead of their inability to conform to the rules in an area they chose to live in.
I’d have a lot easier time believing in a ‘racist’ angle to this story, if the main perp had not purposefully flaunted city zoning and coding statutes, and had then not gone on to violently commit criminal offenses. Especially if ‘racism’ was not now being used as an ‘excuse’ for that criminal behaviour.
There are plenty of people who have fought racism. Many have done so non-violently, and those are the people who deserve respect. They actually cause positive change. Not people who are trying to beat criminal charges by blaming it on racism. They actually end up hurting their cause by exploiting it in order to avoid responsibility for their actions.
c
I’m not sure how what I’m about to say is going to go over next BUT why don’t you ever hear of white people using the race cards? There’s plenty of areas and neighborhoods where the whites are the minority so why is it all of the other races are they ONLY ones to pull the race card.
No, Greg, Bill’s an idiot.
Meacham Park has been a cesspool of crime for decades. The only thing that has improved things one whit has been the commercial development they’ve moved into the area, which has made that neighborhood worth enough for improvements to be made. I drove through it this morning– there are businesses and homes being renovated and built, instead of the decrepit slum it had been.
My wife can tell stories about how the busses would no longer run there because they were shot at. About how pizza drivers would not deliver there, because being robbed was a certainty. About how criminals would cross under the highway to rob houses in Crestwood by crossing through the storm sewers, and about the house down the street where the man was shot in his carport by punks from Meacham Park.
Read about the history of this neighborhood, and the changes that have made it from an absolute dead-end into something that, if not palatial, has at least improved:
http://www.ci.kirkwood.mo.us/com-dev/meacham-intro.htm
Frankly, if the people of Meacham Park think they’re being marginalized, what is the race-card response of ‘you had it coming’ doing to allay any notion of them as low-class and criminal in the minds of the rest of Kirkwood?
Remo, I feel the same way about people that go into schools and shopping malls to kill others the same way I do about Charles Thorton.
And I don’t like bullies.
Bottom line – I don’t like violence.
To me you sound like you condone what Mr. Thorton did. He flaunted the law, obviously. He was disrespectful. He was, in my estimation, a complete and utter ass. And when he didn’t get his spoiled little brat way, he shot people.
Did he win? Does this stop the persecution of Mr. Thorton? Is he now a martyr for the cause?
Show me one positive benefit from what Charles Thorton did. Show me the benefit of what Robert Hawkins did in Omaha. Show me the benefit of randomly shooting a girl at KFC.
the person posting as “burn in hell, cookie” has said it exactly right. i’m a kirkwood resident. i don’t have a problem with black people. i have a problem with crime.
see you in hell, cookie.
Gerald Thorton, “Coookie’s” jizz stain brother did time for stabbbing a man to death, so he can spare me his “black man can’t get a fair shake” argument
What if cookie was legally harrased? it seems a little strange to rack up 20,000 in parking code violations.. From what it looks like it seems like the city was going after a succesful african american business owner..Again no Excuse.. but when you live in a country that invades a country that had nothing to do with 911 and has murdered millions of people in Iraq for “Justice” it seems Cookie was only following our commander in Chiefs example in the way our Justice is carried out. Kill whoever you felt wronged you… this is the American way. as I have seen so far from your Military actions..
I work at a gas station where Cookie came in everyday,the Cookie I Knew would never do this,he would come in prasing life,and god.He would always say I’M HAPPY TO BE ALIVE I WOKE UP BREATHING AND EVERYTHING.So when we heard what he had done we were all in shock.With this said I would like to remeber him as I knew him.I’m sorry for all the people involved this should have never happend.He is facing GOD NOW.I’ts time to move on.
Rhonda- well, if your take on ‘Cookie’ is as you say, and you saw him daily, and he was all full of goodness and light and love of God…
I guess the whole claim of harrassment and racism is moot. That seems like the kind of thing one would mention to someone you saw every single day. It also seems like the kind of thing people use regulary (among the myriad of excuses) to get out of the responsibility of being a poor excuse for a human.
And, no, he is not facing GOD now. He’s facing human punishment for his actions, and should man-up. If he has a god, he can look forward to getting his ass kicked again after he’s dead.
c
Actually, GloryBug, he’s dead. All Rhonda said was that she had known him to be a nice person and that’s how she’d like to remember him. She then went on to say that what he did should have never happened, and he’s facing God now — I assume that means God’s punishment.
You are so fucking obnoxious most of the time, I wish you would be get off your high horse.
I hate reading articles that say it doesn’t justify what he did buttt… BUT nothing. He murdered five people in cold blood, end of sentence
Haha, people crack me up. Just because someone comes into a “gas station” where you work does not know you know him. I use to work at a gas station and I would never have thought half the people that came in were bad but we all learn something about someone every day, my dear. =0)
Chelsey just please shut up, you are annoying.
Im a black man that use to live and work in Kirkwood are the surrounding area(Crestwood/Webster Groves/Brentwood) now I live in California(Northern) and if white people dont think racial profiling in these area(s) doesnt happen you are sadly mistaken! How many times on “Cops have you seen a white person get out of there cars, walk up to the cop car, and tell the cop(s) they are wrong for pulling them over? If you ever see a black person do this, that person would be dead! People always what to say the police are right all the time, if thats the case, why are more black men being release from jailhouse because of false testimony, because of policeman planting evidence! Looks like the bullies will get there, 1 Way or another….
admin – Frankly, if people of any color are doing this to Kirkwood police officers, I’d say that it’s time for some remedial training for those officers. If a police officer tells you to do something, you really, really need to do it. Officer orders are not suggestions. Perhaps when people in Kirkwood begin to respect the legal authorities, there will be fewer problems in that town.
Micheal, your comments are lame! A dead man cant speak, but if Im making a point that doesnt mean someone condone(but if you want to say it, yes, I condone now for Mr. Micheal) just so you want get your way! Get ready America this can happen anywhere, if its a white person/black person/ green, it wont matter. If you people in America(even myself) doesnt realize what we are dealing with on a daily basis(of watching your surrounding(s)) in America we can all become victims. I never going to justify why someone has taken someone else life! The bottom line is, Shoot or be SHot!!
Were did they find that white guy that was taken from off the street, didnt they find him in Kirkwood….can someone answer this question as noisy as people are, no one new of this man and this little boy living together in Kirkwood, nope they were to busy worried about the black(s)!!
admin – There’s a link to Michael Devlin’s entry up there on the top of this article. I’d say that Kirkwood has some issues. Perhaps more employee background checks are the answer!
what did the two police officers have to do with the killer’s problems? The family of the victims? I’m sorry, the only bully here is the one who used a gun to mow over people. You’re right about one thing though, the bullies like Charlie get to hell, just like the people that condone what he did do.
All of you self righteous ignorant people will probably have jobs in hell. You have no right to judge anyone. Nor do you have a heaven or hell to send anyone to. God is a forgiving god and no sin is any greater than the next. So since you have nothing better to do, try praying that the people involved in this tragedy. I have not heard anyone condone the action, I have however heard and agree with how someone can be provoked.
TAKE THIS IDIOTIC WEB PAGE DOWN!!!!
admin – Would you be interested in buying People You’ll See In Hell? If so, feel free to contact us with your bid. Once you buy the website, feel free to take it down. Until then, thank you for your comment, and please click an ad on your way out.
I just hope Remo and Cheryl never have meet up and have a baby together. That could make the Cookie Monster look intelligent and benign by comparison. Anyway, here’s to the Cookster, hoping he’s cooking you know were, for all eternity.
Chelsey,
“Actually, GloryBug, he’s dead. All Rhonda said was that she had known him to be a nice person and that’s how she’d like to remember him. She then went on to say that what he did should have never happened, and he’s facing God now — I assume that means God’s punishment.
You are so fucking obnoxious most of the time, I wish you would be get off your high horse.”
What she said was- “he would come in prasing life,and god.He would always say I’M HAPPY TO BE ALIVE I WOKE UP BREATHING AND EVERYTHING.So when we heard what he had done we were all in shock.With this said I would like to remeber him as I knew him.I’m sorry for all the people involved this should have never happend.He is facing GOD NOW.I’ts time to move on.”
Whether you like it or not, there was the implication that this person never once let on that he was unhappy, thought he was being targeted because of his race, etc. It’s nice that she want to remember him as such, however misguided that may be.
I hope he is facing god right now. I hope he’s actually being punished instead of being patted on the back. I find it interesting that most people on here who rant that people are not allowed to judge, only god is, seem to be under the impression that their god will not judge harshly, when most of the bible imtimates that he would. I hope you are right, and that his god is judging him- and kicking his ass, and sending him to his own hell.
I’m sorry you find me so ‘fucking obnoxious’. It’s not likely I’ll change soon, so I guess I should apologize in advance for the future obnoxiousness you’ll have to endure if you continue reading my comments. A possibility would be for you to save yourself some trouble and just skip my posts.
Remo- you are mistaken if you think people are not aware of racism. The problem is that we are also aware of when claims to it are unjustified. Perhaps someone will be able to provide proof that Mr. Cookie was as completely law-abiding as his neighbors, and actually never once broke any laws, ordinances or parking stipulations. Never had any zoning infractions. That it was all a frameup just because he was black. If it can be proven that he did not do any of these things, or that all of his neighbors did the same things, yet were not fined, I will believe that this case might have to do with racism.
But, I’m not going to hold my breath.
Racism works in more than one direction. Years ago I was working in a bar, when a black lady started complaining under her breath that I was serving ‘white’ people before her, and that it was because I was ‘white’. I told her that I heard what she’d said, and that I had served people in the order they had arrived…. and, that I was not what I would consider ‘white’, as I am Potowatomi Indian and Ukrainian/Russian.
Her response? ‘Well, it’s lucky that you look white’. As if that was a compliment. It offended me. That my nationality was not as important as whether I ‘looked white’. Her implication I thought, was that I probably got preferential treatment everywhere because of my looks.
Racism works in all directions, and is not limited to simply black/white, as so many people push for. And, it does not apply to this case at all.
Being angry about being expected to conform to rules because you think because of your race you should be exempt from those rules DOES have to do with this case.
c
Jesus H. Christ. Are there really people defending this clown? Guess what, sometimes following the rules sucks. And, I don’t always get what I want. I guess if I decide to cold-bloodedly kill all those folks in my life who have let me down or screwed me over or, heck, just disagreed with me, that would be totally justified because they should have expected a violent and irrational response. UGH, I’m all done here.
man glory your shits too long to read. I love glory’s sense of humor. it keeps me coming back.
Cookie had a serious mental illness. It went unchecked and the result is 6 dead. There is no reason or justification, he was very mentally ill; end of story.
Somehow this has reduced this to being a black/white thing. Why?
I don’t know what Race Relations in Kirkwood are like so I can’t comment on that.
I do know, however, that walking into a city council meeting and killing 5 people is not a good way to persuade the mayor that he’s wrong and you’re right. Black, white, or purple – just not a good way to get your point across.
And even if Thorton did get his point across – so what? He’s dead. Did that change anything? I mean as far as his issues with City Hall? Probably not.
So now we’ve got a bunch of dead people, a bunch of sad people, and a bunch of people pointing fingers and trying to justify something that can’t be justified – because one asshole can’t put up with the fact that we have to follow rules.
Yeah boy, that’s just fuckin’ great.
And now there’s someone pissed at me because I think Charles Thorton can go to hell.
Charles Thorton did know how to do many things, where there 7 tickets on one truck @ $1000 a ticket three days in a row when he was out of town? $21,000 when you come home from a three day weekend?
Then go over to 40-50-60-90-100K-200K? Leins against his house? Everything he had, nearly thirty years of work after college, taken?
Not one person has reported anywhere the Charles Thorton graduated from Northeast Missouri State University and hold many athletic records, I think the public may wonder a little bit more about this incident if he wasn’t linked to just Meacham and last years incident?
Does it make them feel better just to say Kirkwood high school? I think so, it puts him down, I think it is racist.
You reporters are pro’s, you can dig, get the truth, don’t put Cookie with the other incident in Kirkwood, Cookie accomplished many things I am a white person and knowing him for 35 years, this was not about race.
Let the public know that this man graduated from College, just not attended Kirkwood High. Let them know that he strived hard in life and volunteered to help so many. Have never seen that printed once, anywhere?
Maybe this makes everyone feel better, believing it just a race issue? .
It is awful, this is not an excuse, or justification, but since 1980 Thornton operated the business in Kirkwood for 26 years without problems. WHY? Kirkwood takes over Meacham park, problems start, Meacham doesn’t fit Mayberry?
Meacham is being removed, don’t let this story get buried like the 6, not 5 lives lost, don’t let the Kirkwood Police and St. Louis County police bury the tickets and actions.
Cookie did a terrible thing, he is no hero, it will haunt many of us for years and years, I have cried since Thursday many times, hiding it from my kids, but Cookie was named Cookie cause he was so sweet. One of the kindest men I have ever met in my 50 plus years. Maybe he “snapped”, maybe drugs, brain tumor, I don’t know, but something is not right here. Maybe cause it hits close to me I say that, maybe I am just looking for an answer too?
Immenient Domain?
I may be all wrong, but I doubt it.
This is a real quote:
http://gobulldogs.truman.edu/halloffame.asp
“Cookie” Thornton, a graduate of Kirkwood High School in St. Louis, entered the university in 1974. He earned All-American track honors, finishing eighth in the NCAA Division II championships as a freshman triple jumper. Mr. Thornton was also ninth in the 1975 national high jump. He did not compete in track in 1976, but the year off did not diminish his skills. As a sophomore in 1977 he broke the school record in the high jump with a leap of 7-0 and narrowly missed collecting All-American honors at the NCAA meet. That season his best mark in the triple jump was 48-8. In 1978 he received All-American accolades again with a fifth-place finish in the NCAA high jump with 6-11. As a senior he finished second in the 1979 national high jump with a leap of 7-0. He still holds the university indoor record of 7-2.5 and outdoor mark of 7-0.5 in the high jump. Mr. Thornton compiled a number of other achievements during his career. He won an unprecedented three events at the 1978 and 1979 MIAA indoors, the high jump, long jump and triple jump, and took the high jump at the 1978 Karnes Invitational and the Texas Relays. He also finished first in the high jump at the 1979 MIAA outdoor championship. After graduating, Mr. Thornton operated TNT Trucking Co. for three years in St. Louis. Since then, he managed an asphalt concrete construction company in St. Louis. He was involved with Project 2000 Positive Adult Male Role Model.
oh my, too many comments to get in to the whole thing, so i’ll keep it short and sweet.
voted yes for “cookie” for obvious reasons, but no for his brother. afterall, if stupidity was a crime…..
I would like to know why it matters in the slightest that Mr. Cookie not only finished high school, but was graduated from college, had sports achievements, or owned his own business?
None of these things matter in the big picture. There are plenty of fine people of all colours who never were graduated from high school or college, sucked at sports, and spent their lives working for others. Who are financially poor and have no formal education. And plenty of those people have never killed anyone. Lots of them don’t have any problem following the rules everyone else has to adhere to.
I’m glad that Mr. Cookie had access to these opportunities. Not everyone does. But, not having access to any of these things does not automatically make someone a bad person any more than having had access to these things automatically makes Mr. Cookie a ‘good’ person.
I don’t know why this bothers me, but it does. I’m all for higher education, having your own business, and being good at sports, but I fail to see how these things reflect on character. In fact, I recall a certain celebrity who’d supposedly been disadvantaged as a youth who won prestigious sports awards, had a lucrative sports career, attended college, had bit parts in movies, and still managed to find the time to kill his ex-wife and her friend.
What matters is character and personal actions. And I know plenty of non-formal educated people who have no ability for sports, who work for other people. They also have something that comes from within- character. That’s something to respect.
Whatever Mr. Cookies’ huge accomplishments may have been, he negated all of them when he chose to kill other people.
c
I don’t care what his personal accomplishments were. He murdered five people in cold blood, end of story.
“Whatever Mr. Cookies’ huge accomplishments may have been, he negated all of them when he chose to kill other people.”
Damn skippy that.
Yeah, I don’t think his acomplishments have anything to do with the real person this guy really is. He killed people and that is the END OF STORE, my dear. The people that were killed had loving family members, etc.
So I guess Friend of Cookie is telling us that at Cookie’s college class reunion, people are going to stand around wondering why ol’ Cookie, world class athelete, scholar, successful business owner, and all-around-great guy, wasn’t able to make it.
Yeah pretty much. Then they are going to sit there and wonder why such a “great” guy has done something like this. Well, sorry to break it to you all, not everyone is perfect. (Look at the actors that do drugs and stupid stuff like that.) Just because you were successful doesn’t mean you are a good person in the inside.
You know, John Wayne Gacy was a contractor who had a lot of money and a nice middle class lifestyle. And Ted Bundy graduated college with distinction and was going to become a lawyer, before his unfortunate girl-killing habit kind of ruined his career. We don’t remember those men as successful businessman or intelligent law students. We remember them as violent murderers.
Ask Marion Jones what one bad mistake can do to all your College accolades, and she didn’t even kill anyone!
I want to know, since America is so bad and full of hate as some have said; what about the Minority Scholarships Cookie likely (just a guess here) used to go to College? What about the Minority grants that are available to non-white people he possibly used to start up his contracting business (not to say there isn’t a strong possibility he used his own money as start-up capital)? If America is so bad and so racist still, why do these programs exist? What do you think would happen if I (a white man) tried to get minority help to go back to school? I don’t have a college degree because I ran out of money and didn’t want to burden the folks so I decided to join the workforce and make a go of it. I could have gotten a loan, but I would have to pay the loan back while if I wasn’t white I could get free scholarship money (not easily, but still available) to go to any college regaurdless of my SAT’s.
Also…why didn’t he think about where to park his car before leaving for vacation? I mean, bottom line here is, he and his brother were screaming racial discrimination in the end so there was obviously some racial animosity there before killing 6 people. Saying otherwise is just fanning the flame.
Sounds to me like Cookie enjoyed the drama.
Friend…. i appreciate you trying to defend your friend, and it is completely understandable that you would do that. But frankly, nobody cares that he went to college, so did Ted Bundy! and hes a killer too!
Black men and murder go like cheese in wine.
See you in hell, cookie!
James: see that right there…that was racist. it didn’t need to go to that step.
That’s like saying old people can’t get errections.
That’s like saying all gay people have aids.
That’s like saying all middle eastern people are terrorist.
That’s like saying all strippers are whores when a lot of the time they’re trying to pay their way through college damnit!!
Maybe PYSIH should just stop posting photos of the wackos and replace them with, say, a random smurf image. That will remove the tendency to play the race card. (Where does one get a race card anyway? Do you get a full deck of 52 or just one?).
The fact that people try to use race or racial discrimination as a justification for gunning down a room full of people is pathetic and a disgrace to the memory of nonviolent resisters of REAL racial discrimination (Parks, King, Gandhi, Thoreau, Mandela, etc).
And frankly, more power to the city for enforcing these ordinances. Nothing I hate more than people parking their big ass work vehicles on the street corner so that I get to risk my life making a turn since they completely obscure the view of oncoming traffice. Would it have been too hard for Cookie to park in his garage? Or do only white people in Kirkwood get garages?
“Whatever Mr. Cookies’ huge accomplishments may have been, he negated all of them when he chose to kill other people.”
That sums it up for me.
Next Applicant, please?
What card do I get? I’m a thin white, educated with no learning disabilities (besides spelling), straight, middle income, brown haired brown eyed German/French decendant, no-addictions, christian, mentally stable (depending on who you ask)small-town Nebraska corn fed, beef eating gal. Come on, if some people get 52 cards, don’t I get at least one?
Oh yea, I was also born in the Tennesse hills. My father was a hillbilly and our house had the ‘hand-pumped’ water for pumbling and we had to use the outhouse. That should qualify me for something.
You all should be ashames of yourself. Get your facts straight before you write a column. Maybe he should of shot the writer of this stupid column
admin – We promise never to do it again. Will that spare us your wrath?
weird. reading the comments up to a certain point they were interesting, engaging. then about, maybe 10 or so entries up, a little after remo’s first comment, it all turned to dribble.
anyway, i like the comments, usually the first dozen or so then it goes down hill and i lose interest… it’s these judemental people with strong opinions. i wish i could turn their volume knobs down!
When people start arguing and calling eachother names. oh man. well i guess that’s what happens when “anyone” can comment.
This is a great page and 90% of the time I love the way it’s writing and enjoy the sarcastic humorous tone. (with exception of the article about the texan who shot the theives)..
everyone knows they got what they deserved! lol
You’re right Lisa, I am soooo ‘ashames’ of myself for having a clear understanding of right and wrong. Clearly, the ones that condone this type of behavior are the ones that should be ashamed.
Does anyone else have a craving for Chips Ahoy and a big glass of milk??
i think things get stupid once people start arguing about the race card. everything gets stupid and all the comments aren’t interesting
anymore.
Nope, we called your friend what he is, a cold blooded killer who left five families without their loved ones forever. I have nothing to be ASHAMED of.
OMG, I love Admin of this page..haha..gotta love his comments!
Hey James, if that the case white man and little boys go together….Predators
Now I done with this stupid site. Like I said, I use to live in Kirkwood/Crestwood/Webster Grove, and if you never live there dont tell me how things are! I lived there, I know what the policeman/woman are like there…..I will never condone anyone on killings, but it amazes me that we have a different shooting everyday of the week now, but in this case, sense it was a black male, we are talking about a dead issuse! The guy killed 5 people, and the point I was making was look at the killings that are happening because of bullies like(City Hall/High School)again dont condone it, but I cant say what makes people kill! People with degrees dont know why people kill! You ever heard of—”Dont Cross My Line” cause I may do something that may hurt you and me, in this case the line was crossed and 5 people have died. Mr. Thorton should burn in hell, but in this society, we praise and try to find out why this has happen, why? You cant bring love ones back, you only give people like (Mr. Thorton) brother his 5 mins of fame, and dumb people on this site that cant read, that people are trying to make sense out of this situation, but in reality ” A Dead Man has Never Talked”……I will pray for all families involved in this sad day in Kirkwood!
James – You’re not funny or clever. You’re an asshole.
If you don’t buy our shirts, we will kill you,
Fuck you and your site! HATER
admin – Touch meeeee … in the moooooorning…..then just walk awaaaaaay.
Most of the people writing on here are ignorant, and some of the comments I’ve read have really made me mad.
I live 10 minutes away from Kirkwood and it’s a beautiful place. “Yes, that Kirwood” and “Yes, he’s one of those people” was a terrible thing to write.
There’s a lot of things about Cookie Thorntan you didn’t write about! I must have seen him 15 times randomly picketing and many of the things he said I agreed with. It was not right by any means what he did, and obviously he’d lost it. But you’re taking him way out of context and people need to stop commenting on his family. They’re very religious people who apparently aren’t as educated as the majority and they’re just being defensive over someone they love. A terrible thing has happened to their family, just let them be!
I wonder if we’ll see the maker of this website in hell too. He acts like he gets to choose the people going.
This is the DUMBEST question ever. Who thought to ask if someone should go to hell or not? Thats a disgrace to that person’s education. Who are we to judge just because were living people,and he’s dead to say if he should go to hell or not. I got a really good answer for you,LEAVE THAT UP TO GOD ,THE CREATOR OF ALL.Just because those other people got shot does that necessarily mean they are going to heaven? NO!!. Who are we to determine somones salvation. Do you think that if someone went into a catholic church and shot a bunch of priest who raped and molested little boys need to go to heaven or hell? I bet half of you depending on if you are a catholic would say “Yes those priest need to go to hell”. Not only that you wouldve found it justifiable for a father of the one of the little boy’s to shoot. So dont be so quik to say whats justifiable or not because half of more of you condone a war over there whereas innocent ppl getting killed everyday. I guess our actions as a country was justified then after 9/11 and everybody thought it was cool.Or for our president to send more troops over there to be standing targets. So just quit it, half of the people on here are just going with the band wagon. Or better yet the very first piece of news you hear, you take it and run off with it ONLY knowing the last few bit of details forgetting that this issues has been cooking for years. Of course taking a life is not justifiable under any circumstances. But its reality, it happens when these depressed kids go to school and take out ppl,postal workers,etc. No of you know what it really feels like until its your family member.You speak as if you are the experts and as if you experience this stuff on a daily basis.
oh go and cry about it deangelo
Cookie chose the fate of many people that day, in essence wasn’t he “playing god”. As many have said, it isn’t who you are it is what you do. If Cookie didn’t want to follow rules, then he could have not moved into a residence with a neighborhood association; but he chose to anyway. He could have chosen to go to the council meetings and engage in discussions that would help his situation; rather, he chose to let anger and selfishness get in the way of any real dialogue. How many of the people he killed that day were in no way part of, what he perceived, his “problem”?
He may well have been a great guy, but he chose to leave his mark in the most dishonorable way; thus, he chose how he will be remembered. As a killer.
Just because you ask a question about weather or not a person should go to hell or not, does not mean we are choosing his fate, like he did to others. Some people need to get that shit straight and stop walkin all tall and mighty thinkin their shit don’t stink.
Looks like the “OJ is Innocent” fan club let out early today.
It just cracks me up that people actually think we, mere mortals, can decide someone’s fate, whether they go to Hell or not. hahahahha. I WISH that was true because there are a few people I would LOVE to send straight to Hell!!! :) Give me a break, Holy Rollers, we will try not to send too many people there. Wouldn’t want it to get over-crowded. LIKE OUR PRISONS!! Geez.
i grew up with cookie and his family they are very sweet people and do not deserve to be talked about this way i dont like what cookie did in any form or fashion but i do believe that a person can be pushed to snapping point with pressure and lots of depression with that big smile must have been a very sad person that he would not let out he wanted no one to see that part of him can you imagine hiding that all these years it must have been a very private hell i feel so sorry for him and i pray for his mom and siblings and the people he killed and their families but i grew up in kirkwood there is so much unjust there and they do it right in your face with no regard at all so please dont get the story wrong this was a very good person he was pushed and could not fight anymore it was wrong the way he handled it but remember never judjed a man until you have put on his shoes and walked through meacham park mo i didnt mean to write so much but it is so much to be said let us all pray what does that mean that you wont put my comment up because this is my first time commenting
admin – Why wouldn’t we put your comment up? That’s a perfectly good comment. Feel free to make many more such comments.
You know what all you people that has something bad to say about the situation its sad. You hear what everbody else hear and that is exactly what the media wants. They are going around and making it seem like he was a bad guy. I knew the man personally and he was a all-around great guy full of life. Never would I thought he would take peoples. This doesn’t excuse his actions cause I don’t care how made you get you just dont kill anyone. But you have to understand he is a successful black man living in kirkwood trying to do something with his life and everytime a white person see a black person doing good they always want to come in between. Its the truth and I dont care what anybody has to say. No, I don’t think Cookie should go to hell because God will forgive him for his terrible actions. All I know is (kirkwood)police in general are sick and when people feel they have the manpower to step all over you that is exactly what they will do. Ecspecially if they see you doing better than them. I am not racist at all but whites do feel they can step all over you and get away with it. and that’s the truth. Like I said what he did was unacceptable but everyone doesn’t know what this man was put through for years and years at a time. People need to stop and think about things. Things happen for a reason!!! I feel sorry for the victims and their families and hopefully they can move on from this and become stronger but people need to stop downing this man as if they knew him. point of the matter is you dont know him and his problems only he knew what he was put through and why he did what he did. God bless the families and those who were affected by the whole situation. The best thing I can say is to pray and ask God to give us strength so many bad stuff is happening in the world and we dont need to egg it on and put our two cents in it we need to stop and give thanks to God for atleast letting us see another day. We need to stop playing this colored game and come together as a whole and build our community up before something like this happens again-God forbid
Like I said at the beginning Charles “Cookie” Lee Thorton was a good man no matter who wants to accept it he will be remember for so much more than the man who shot up city hall. He was a successful black man and those (whites, police,haters) people just wanted to take everything he had and bring him down so he felt he had to get revenge. Like I said things happen for a reason. Stop mourning over the bad stuff and start thinking positive what kind of way is this to start the new years off with. What happend happen we cant erase time and no we cant take it back all we can do is learn from this situation and so many more and teach our kids this is not the way to act or to get revenge. God bless everyone who is effected by the whole situation instead of gossiping and worring about things that are out of our hands we need to educate those who dont know and pick up a bible and read it and ask GOd for forgivness because nobody is perfect everybody has their flaws. Dont down us for wanting to take back what was ours, let others get in the way and become just as succesful. God forgivess!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m sure Cookie lived in a private hell Regina, but any empathy or sympathy I may have felt went down the toilet when he decided to make countless other lives hell.
Believe it or not, most of us have walked in Cookie’s shoes. We’ve all got problems, but most of us don’t act the way Cookie did.
Things that suck happen all the time. Transmission went out, letter from the IRS, parking ticket, $250.00 heating bill – and that was just today. Shit happens all the time.
I’m not going to pretend I’m a victim though. I’m not going to blame my problems on City Hall, or the Police. I’m not going to blame Jiffy Lube for my transmission. It’s not the Utility Company’s fault it’s been cold and I do have a thermostat I can program. And, for everything bad people say about the IRS, they have been courteous and co-operative and are working with me.
We are all challenged everyday. I think that’s why we get tired of hearing about a great guy that got pushed too far, or that he was being persecuted because he was black.
He should have taken responsibility for his problems instead of blaming others. He should have recognized his mistakes and corrected them instead of blaming others. He should have followed the rules instead of thinking that he should be above the law.
But instead……..and we know the end of the story.
So Cookie and his family won’t get any slack from me. To me it looks like he lived his life as a loser and he ended it like a loser.
The liberal multi-cultural experiment isn’t working.Is it racism or bureaucracy that got the best of him,he’s obviously an idiot,America breeds idiots.maybe an all out civil war is what it takes before we all start leaning towards a more conservative national socialist society.
Good men or women gwenerally do not murder people.
“But you have to understand he is a successful black man living in kirkwood trying to do something with his life and everytime a white person see a black person doing good they always want to come in between. Its the truth and I dont care what anybody has to say.”
Um, I hate to break it to you, (even though I don’t really qualify as ‘white’ in some people’s opinions, or in my own), but white people really don’t just sit around on their lazy-boy recliners waiting for a black person to come along that they can harrass. You give people too much credit.
Well, I do live in California. Maybe it’s Nirvana. In all my 44 years, I have not once met a white person who dedicated their life to lying in wait to spring on the first unsuspecting black person they see. Could be because my parent’s best friends are black. Or that most normal people don’t even notice much what race people are. Because it’s not important.
More likely, it’s because none of the black people I’ve ever become acquainted with were not gangstas. I tend to avoid white methheads, too, so I’m guessing it’s more of an ‘ick’ thing than a race thing. I can say that I do not know one black person who would be ok with someone calling them ‘nigga, niggah or nigger’. No matter what colour they were. That cannot be underestimate. I have respect for people I have found to be respectful.
In all my years as a homeowner, I’ve been reported for having an unreported pond in my yard, for having cut down a tree and having it stacked up in my yard, for having incorrect doors on my garage, and for having a ‘free’ dishwasher on my curb.
It’s probably just because I’m Potowatomi Indian and Ukrainian. People are so effin racist.
Next time someone reports me, I’m going to hijack a city council meeting and kill some people. Because that will really help fix my problems.
Or not. Y’think?
c
Admin,
Do you mind posting a few definitions in either some place of prominence or on the about page?
Monster: 5. One who inspires horror or disgust: a monster of selfishness.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/monster
bad person: a person who does harm to others
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bad+person
humane:
1. Characterized by kindness, mercy, or compassion: a humane judge.
2. Marked by an emphasis on humanistic values and concerns: a humane education.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/humane
and finally
good:
1. Being positive or desirable in nature; not bad or poor: a good experience; good news from the hospital.
2.
a. Having the qualities that are desirable or distinguishing in a particular thing: a good exterior paint; a good joke.
b. Serving the desired purpose or end; suitable: Is this a good dress for the party?
3.
a. Not spoiled or ruined: The milk is still good.
b. In excellent condition; sound: a good tooth.
4.
a. Superior to the average; satisfactory: a good student.
b. Used formerly to refer to the U.S. Government grade of meat higher than standard and lower than choice.
5.
a. Of high quality: good books.
b. Discriminating: good taste.
6. Worthy of respect; honorable: ruined the family’s good name.
7. Attractive; handsome: good looks.
8. Beneficial to health; salutary: a good night’s rest.
9. Competent; skilled: a good machinist.
10. Complete; thorough: a good workout.
11.
a. Reliable; sure: a good investment.
b. Valid or true: a good reason.
c. Genuine; real: a good dollar bill.
12.
a. In effect; operative: a warranty good for two years; a driver’s license that is still good.
b. Able to continue in a specified activity: I’m good for another round of golf.
13.
a. Able to pay or contribute: Is she good for the money that you lent her?
b. Able to elicit a specified reaction: He is always good for a laugh.
14.
a. Ample; substantial: a good income.
b. Bountiful: a good table.
15. Full: It is a good mile from here.
16.
a. Pleasant; enjoyable: had a good time at the party.
b. Propitious; favorable: good weather; a good omen.
17.
a. Of moral excellence; upright: a good person.
b. Benevolent; kind: a good soul; a good heart.
c. Loyal; staunch: a good Republican.
18.
a. Well-behaved; obedient: a good child.
b. Socially correct; proper: good manners.
19. Sports
a. Landing within bounds or within a particular area of a court and therefore in play: The first serve was wide, but the second was good.
b. Passing between the uprights of the goal and therefore scoring, as a field goal in football.
20. Used to form exclamatory phrases expressing surprise or dismay: Good heavens! Good grief!
n.
1.
a. Something that is good.
b. A good, valuable, or useful part or aspect.
2. Welfare; benefit: for the common good.
3. Goodness; virtue: There is much good to be found in people.
4. goods
a. Commodities; wares: frozen goods.
b. Portable personal property.
c. (used with a sing. or pl. verb) Fabric; material.
5. goods Slang Incriminating information or evidence: tried to get the goods on the crook.
This guy was not humane when he sought to execute people for his beliefs. It made him a bad person, a monster. Nothing about what he did made him Good. In fact by definition, what he did and what he was, was bad.
Perhaps the reason so many people defend these people is because they lack the capacity to understand the difference?
And I say Amen to Michael, Glory and Jason!! Bravo!! “I never thought he would take PEOPLES” this person said. WTF. “He was good man”. Yeah right. Like Michael said, we all have shit that goes wrong in our lives. My ex-husband took my daughter from me and she hasn’t gotten to spend the night with me in 4 years. Did I kill him? NO. I sure as hell wanted to, but I DID NOT KILL HIM. He has been harrassing me since 1999. But, did I kill him? HELL NO. There’s the difference. I’m a good person. I do not kill people that do me wrong. End of story. Does anybody really care WHY he killed people? I don’t. The fact is, PEOPLE ARE DEAD. Not because “he was a good man”. Because he was an idiot who took his misfortunes out on innocent people.
I think that if everything was handled accordingly
things would have had a better outcome. And no I’m not saying that he was right for what he did
but he surely had a great amount of anger in him. I knew him as I seem him out many times and he seemed to be a very god fearing man that wanted to make sure everybody was happy. I know that there is no justification for his actions in the public eyes but you also have to look at the problems that were going on at the city hall and how the chairman decided to handle the situation that cookie would complain to them about.
Problems, schmoblems. There are NO problems in the world worth killing someone over. How many times does this have to be said? Everybody has freaking problems for crying out loud, but NORMAL people do go around killing the people that “cause” them. I think he brought some of this shit on himself. If you get a citation for something, fix this shit so you don’t GET ANOTHER CITATION. Geez, people. Come ON. I had to get a tow truck to tow my car to a shop to get the gas tank repaired. When I picked my car up, there was a dent in the hood, the grill was busted and there was a scrape on the bumper. PROBLEMS, PEOPLE!!! Nobody would admit to trashing my car, so I’m stuck with having the shit fixed myself. AGAIN, PROBLEMS!! But, guess what?!? I’m not going to go kill the bastards that trashed my car. IT JUST IS NOT DONE!! How hard is this shit to understand?!? Gawdamighty I’m getting frustrated.
any guy who goes by “cookie” is obviously fucked up in the head, hahaha
People seem to forget that America was raised up on ‘violence’. Hell, you can’t watch a cartoon these days without seeing voilence. It’s okay to watch people do it on TV, but it’s ludicrous to think that someone would actually want to do those things.
I pray for all families that was affected by this tragedy. God give us wisdom and understanding!
So what all of Cookie’s supporters are saying is “He was upset with the political system so give him a pass on Hell.”
NEWSFLASH!!!!! Who isn’t UPSET with the political system!!?? I’m sick of paying too much for gas, having CRAP health insurance, the rights of perpetrators of these horrabl;e crimes being taken into consideration over the rights of victims(Death Penalty, Cruel & Unusual?) countless numbers of people being killed over Oil Rights, oh sorry White House calls the reason weapons of mass destruction, my bad, illegal aliens crossing the boarders in turn committing a FEDERAL CRIME and the politicians look the ather way, but if I don’t pay a traffic ticket, I go to jail instead being sent on a sunny holiday airfare paid. OH I could go on and on and on… Like Kim said “Problems, schmoblems.” Espeacially (sp?) where it comes to government and politics no matter how big or small the council. He should have done what the families of our fallen soldiers do. Picket and shout out in a legal manner. NOT go to to the podium and act like some inbred twit that NOBODY wants to hear. If he was as educated as you claim he was, I’m sure he could have put up a more intelligent arguement than “Jackass, jackass, jackass” unless of course he was referring to himself with this statement! So why don’t you post his diploma and all these awards on his headstone and shut up!
**Applause** for Nebraska Mom!!!!
man now I really wanna see you run in a thong!! ha ha. Just kidding.
OMG!! It looks like they followed my advice and shut-up. That’s funny. I should be a cop. LOL! I would look great in the uniform j/k
Yeah, I agree with what you had said, Nebsraska Mom. I have friends from Australia and they are always asking me about our health care. Most of the time they are upset about it because they don’t understand the U.S. government, etc.
http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/kmov_localnews_080215_cookieaudio2.c71170f5.htmlAudio clips:
Gunman Cookie Thornton expressed anger in interview 18 months ago
01:59 PM CST on Sunday, February 17, 2008
By News 4 Reporter Mike O’Connell
Watch News 4 coverage
(This interactive story allows you to select and listen to audio clips within the text)
Kirkwood, MO (KMOV) – Kirkwood City Hall gunman Charles “Cookie” Thornton expressed rising resentment toward two of his victims, Public Works Director Ken Yost and Mayor Mike Swoboda a year and a half before the Kirkwood rampage.
Thornton also killed two police officers and two city councilmen in the February 7th attack.
News 4 has obtained a 35 minute audio recording of an interview with Thornton in which he also expressed anger toward Kirkwood City Attorney John Hessel.
Following the deadly shootings Hessel told reporters Thornton was also gunning for him and he narrowly avoided being shot by throwing chairs at Thornton and then running from the council chambers.
Thornton claimed that he learned through a Missouri Sunshine Act request that his legal battles with the city cost the city $500,000 in legal bills.
Kirkwood City Attorney John Hessel tells News 4 that Thornton’s claim is,†Absolutely false.â€
The taped interview was conducted by reporter Matt Lescher shortly after Thornton was arrested at two city council meetings in the spring of 2006.
Lescher was working as a stringer for two publications and his interview never led to a published news article.
Thornton compares his treatment by Kirkwood city officials to that of a slave and says he would have been treated differently if he’d been white.
He states a police officer became a fixture at city council meetings only after he started verbally disrupting meetings during the public comment periods.
Again, Kirkwood City Attorney John Hessel tells News 4 that claim by Thornton is also,†Absolutely false.â€
Lescher says Thornton, a demolition and construction contractor, was calm during the interview but was “very methodical†in how he’d compiled records and photographs in his battle with city officials over parking and work permit disputes involving his business.
Thornton gives no indication he’d become violent but seems to think he’s justified in escalating his disruption of city meetings and his verbal putdowns because he thinks officials are ignoring him and denying him his right to address the council.
(also the city attorney firm also works for all the St. Louis newspapers?)
Where is president Lincoln when you need him?
First off, get the link right and put a carriage return or two in place in between.
http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/kmov_localnews_080215_cookieaudio2.c71170f5.html
Second off, Abraham Lincoln would not have been much help here. Lincoln’s wife, Mary Todd, was the daughter of an affluent Slave Owning family.
When politicians ran Abraham Lincoln’s name in the dirt, he didn’t rant and rave in a court house and kill people. He politely chose not to run for office in his state again.
Lincoln later damaged his political reputation with a speech in which he declared, “God of Heaven has forgotten to defend the weak and innocent, and permitted the strong band of murderers and demons from hell to kill men, women, and children, and lay waste and pillage the land of the just.” Two weeks later, President Polk sent a peace treaty to Congress. While no one in Washington paid any attention to Lincoln, the Democrats orchestrated angry outbursts from across his district, where the war was popular and many had volunteered.
Warned by his law partner, William Herndon, that the damage was mounting and irreparable, Lincoln decided not to run for reelection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln
The Republicans ran Lincoln for president because he had a moderate stance on slavery. He wanted to free the slaves over time. Allowing those currently in slavery to simply die of old age, and free slaves upon the death of their masters. Slow emancipation, not a forceful and aggressive solution that would leave millions starving and penniless.
In his inaugural address, Lincoln supported the Corwin Amendment to the US constitution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corwin_Amendment
Yup, Abraham Lincoln was willing to make slavery a perpetually protected right of states in the US Constitution to save the Union and slavery be damned. He opposed the spread of slavery in later sentences, but his goal was compromise. The avoidance of violence, which is the opposite of what “Cookie” wanted.
It would be very hard for any of us to have a reasonable conversation with the people of our past. I respect and admire Teddy Roosevelt but, he was a bigot by today’s standards and he and I would not have gotten along. You cannot look for your champions if they’re dead and buried. You have to look for champions now or become one yourself. You cannot choose to murder and kill, unless you are prepared to accept all of the consequences–chief among these is public shame and an acknowledgment that you have broken the social contract.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract
Cookie was not a Martyr for some cause, great or small. He was not a force of good or folklore. Cookie was a disturbed man who chose to do evil. Anything that was good about him was destroyed and cast into ashes when he chose to kill. There are no excuses that justify his actions.
Maybe Mr. Thorton is telling his story in Hell, maybe in Heaven, we know we are not the judge, right?
OK, so you work at the Kirkwood City Hall and this man has a history (almost of every news article printed) that there was numerous problems for years, correct?
So riddle me this Batman? Why does that city put him on numerous Boards for the past six years as referenced below? Seems like a little bit of information that just doesn’t let me say “jive”.
Kirkwood’s Boards and Commissions LOCAL HOUSING AUTHORITY
http://www.ci.kirkwood.mo.us/no_search/old/council/boardscommissions.htm
0. Provide and maintain facilities for low income housing for elderly
0. Council Liaison: Paul Ward?Meets: 2nd Monday, 6:00 p.m., Kirkwood House, 385 S. Taylor?Current Roster:?Glenn Appelbaum, Chair?Betsy Brueggeman?Tom Doyle?Carole “Randy” DeGarmo? and ****Cookie Thornton****** ?For more information call Kirkwood House at: 314-966-5X10
Maybe Mr. Thorton is telling his story in Hell, maybe in Heaven, we know we are not the judge, right?
Cookie shot a police officer in the parking lot, then took his gun and shot another police officer in the head inside. He then systematically shot and killed three more unarmed people–oh wait, the attorney armed himself with a chair that might have counted for something if it wasn’t so blatantly self-defense. Get this through your head, the person killing other people is the person who is wrong. There are no shades of gray in this particular incident. Cookie wasn’t storming the beaches of Normandy or defending his store against armed thieves who were also trying to kill him. Guns are tools for killing people and animals efficiently, and Cookie chose to use those tools for illegal purposes.
So riddle me this Batman? Why does that city put him on numerous Boards for the past six years as referenced below? Seems like a little bit of information that just doesn’t let me say “jive .
Absolutely nowhere in any of these board commissions do I see where:
1. Cookie was entitled to carry a weapon into council meetings
2. Cookie was entitled to execute people for crimes, perceived or otherwise.
3. Cookie was entitled to say the word “jackass” more than never, at inappropriate times
He killed people. He shot them in the head. If I walked into your home and shot every member of your family in the head, even if I was angry with you for something you did to me, does not entitle me to kill you and your family. Think about your actions from a completely different perspective. If you come forward and make what Cookie did perfectly acceptable and perfectly legal; if you find a way to make him into a hero so that people emulate his actions; you’d make it legal for anyone who is arguing with you here to kill you and anyone you were near when they came to do it.
It’d make you the “jackass.”
Well, Mr. Kirwood resident…
In my town, we have several elected officials who presently have problems with their taxes, and with personal problems like Mr. Thorton had. I’ve heard that several of them also have massive numbers of parking tickets. We also have several pastors still in place who have admitted to abusing women in marriage counseling.
People get elected all the time who either have a checkered past, or checker their own past after they are elected.
Yet none of the ones I know about have ever chosen to murder multiple people because they thought they were above the laws all us common folk seem to be able to abide by.
Having a cheap trophy stating ‘Best Newest Member of the Board’ isn’t the best evidence towards trying to get off a well-deserved murder rap, y’know?
This POS murdered people. And millions of people who could claim to be in the EXACT situation he was in did not choose to murder people as a ‘logical solution’.
Burn the race card, please. It obviously does not apply to this mass-murder.
c
So, your point is?
People that look for racism will always find it. Cookie’s supporters are simply using that as an exuse. Bottom line, he killed five people, end of story.
Here is a story FINALLY written in the local St. Louis paper that tells the real truth about Cookie’s background: Failed business, tax debts, mortgaged properties, and about $500,000 in debt, but not to the city that offered to forgive all citations.
But the city was the nearest, easiest target and Cookie took it out on them:
http://tinyurl.com/5a8u6l
GEE…TURNS OUT IT WASN’T RACISM AFTER ALL.
I thought his antics were hilarious until he started killing people. I am always one for a good argument, but if I were to see a guy stand up in a city council meeting just saying “jackass” over and over again, there’d definitely be a chuckle… Not to mention if he was saying it like the guy off Happy Gilmore.
Everyone enjoys a Maverick, but to hell with a maverick murderer!
I love Happy Gilmore…i love all the Adam Sandler movies.
‘Jackass’….lol
I am with you YoMomma, I thought him standing up at a city council meeting and calling the mayor jackass definitely was good enough for a good laugh. Talk about using your freedom of speech. It went overboard when he brought out the ammo though.
OMG HI PICTURE IS FRIGHTENING. I have not even read the story yet but I can see a demon right on his fuckin face. UGH!
I started reading this story for one reason,but with out doubt this guy is a real fruit,not only does he give Thornton’s a bad name,but he gives us contractors a bad name also.His reaction was totally nuts! talk about overkill.We are not the ones to judge but issues like this are good to toss around, helps the sane maybe stay that way ,so yes cousin Charles, write us from hell!
I was born, raised, and spent most of my life in St. Louis, near Kirkwood. Hell my parents live in Kirwood now. All I have is this to say:
Somebody doing something selfish, stupid, AND ILLEGAL because they didn’t get their way, then playing the race card when it’s time to suffer consequences? Well it must be a day that ends in a “Y” in St. Louis…
Seriously all of this “Kirkwood treats blacks poorly” and “St. Louis is unfair to blacks” shit is just that…shit. It’s never a racial thing, it’s a crime thing. God forbid St. Louis tries to clean up areas with excessive crime. Personally I don’t know why anybody wastes their time. I am in no way racist. I find racism deplorable and disgusting. But there are areas in St. Louis where citizens don’t care about their community, where they victimize their neighbors, and trash and destroy their streets and homes. Drive through any one of them. It’s not Kirkwoods fault that there’s a predominant race in these areas. If somebody told me this, I would tell them to just their rotten racist mouths. I wouldn’t believe it if I didn’t see it, but I have all over St. Louis and I find it depressing.