John and Jenny Deaves
It would normally seem like a really romantic kind of thing, the love between 61-year-old John Deaves and 39-year-old Jenny Deaves, who are pictured here off to the left.
The happy couple’s story is that, after being separated for 30 years, they finally met and fell into love almost instantly.
According to Jenny Deaves, whose standards for mating are clearly among the highest on the planet:
I was looking at him, sort of going, ‘Oh, he’s not too bad.’
Let the lovefest begin!
Two weeks after meeting, John and Jenny Deaves were having sex. While their timetable wasn’t unusual, their prior relationship was.
Perhaps if you watch this happy video starring Muppets, you’ll understand.
Yes, John Deaves just happened to be the father of Jenny Deaves, who turned out to be a fertile field for John Deaves to plow.
While admitting to the press that he initially thought that having sex with his own daughter was wrong, John Deaves stated:
Emotions take over. As people no doubt realize, there are times during your life where emotions do rule the heart, it rules the head. I knew it was illegal. Of course I knew it was illegal but you know, so what? The sexual relationship was absolutely fantastic.
Jenny Deaves, who had two children with another man before having sex with her father, sees nothing wrong with the fact that she and her dad have a sexual relationship.
It’s like a sexual relationship with any other man.
Wonderful. The human race reaches towards new heights.
But like Jenny Deaves insists, they’re consenting adults and just asking for a little bit of respect and understanding.
Respect has to go two ways, however.
And of course, with a little digging, it turns out that John and Jenny Deaves weren’t quite honest with everyone.
69-year-old Dorothy Deaves, who happens to be the ex-wife of John Deaves, has told the press that when she married John Deaves in 1984, Jenny Deaves had stayed with them for a week. Jenny stayed with them four times before the marriage between John and Dorothy broke down in 2000. According to Dorothy, she called it quits when John and Jenny Deaves took a trip together.
So John and Jenny Deaves didn’t meet after 30 years apart like they said they did. And they weren’t exactly forthcoming about what had happened to their first child together either.
Yeah, the first fruit of their loins died days after birth from a congenital heart defect. Imagine that.
So far, 11-month-old Celeste Deaves, the couple’s second child, hasn’t had any medical problems.
Socially, down the road, things might be different.
All sorts of problems are going to come up when this child is older and starts to have a will of her own.
Maybe Celeste will get a little sassy with Jenny sometime, a situation which John could resolve by saying something like,
Don’t sass your sister-mother.
Or Celeste might refuse to do what John says, in which case Jenny could tell the child,
Do as your Granddad-dad says.
To which Celeste might reply,
Aww…Mom-sis do I have to?
And of course, if Jenny was ever going to punish Celeste, the little girl has the ultimate trump card,
I don’t have to listen to you, you’re just my sister!
Someone turned John and Jenny Deaves in, and because incest is illegal virtually everywhere, there were charges brought against the pair. They pled guilty to two counts of incest on the 20th of March, 2008. The judge has allowed the two to go free but has also insisted that John and Jenny Deaves stop having sex with each other. They were released on a three-year, $500 good behavior bond.
According to a police media spokesman in their area,
The couple is being monitored.
Do John and Jenny Deaves deserve Hell?
- Yes (62%, 313 Votes)
- No (38%, 199 Votes)
Total Voters: 504
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57 Comments »
Just eeewwwwwwww
This is such a disgusting story. The worst part is, of course, that the children of these 2 idiots are the ones to suffer, emotionally AND physically. Not to mention the daughter’s name being “Celeste” is far too close to the word “incest”. Seems to me it was picked on purpose. how’s that for making your daughter/sister/granddaughter into an automatic head case??
Small nitpick – shouldn’t “charges were brought against the paid” be “charges were brought against the pair”?
I think one of them should get fixed.
Then, they can have alllll the fun they want.
Don’t bring a baby in this world with genetic ills because the genes are too closely matched.
Have all your fun, but someone has to get fixed. Not temporary birth control…I’m talking surgery.
Yes, since they are adults, who are we to say they can’t be together? I just say, NO to making babies.
It’s as simple as that. No babies.
They’re consenting adults. It’s nasty as fuck though. I do feel very badly for the child. Who knows what kinds of problems she’s going to have to deal with growing up?
Her granddad-dad will probably be dead by the time she grows up. Hopefully.
I’m going to have to agree with TurtleMania here. One of them needs to do the responsible thing and opt to be sterilized. (Probably not going to happen, as it’s obvious irresponsible behavior appears to be a genetic trait here.)
Personally speaking, I’m a lot like the rest of society in that I find incest revolting. Just the thought of a father and daughter together like that is just…ew. However, I also believe that two consenting adults should be allowed to do whatever they want in the privacy of their own bedroom, as long as no one gets hurt and the behavior stays there. When this man and his daughter had a child together, their behavior hurt someone (their two children, the first of whom died) and their deviance became public. That’s what I have a problem with.
That little girl is going to have serious physical and emotional problems later on in life. That their incest brought a child into the picture was the height of irresponsible and even criminal behavior, considering what that child is going to have to go through in her life. Shame on them.
All I can think about is this poor child. It is proven that children that are the product of inbreeding most of the time have physical and mental handicaps. I say these two can be gross together, but they should have NEVER brought an innocent child into this… NASTY SICK F*CKS!!
This man obviously has no boundaries. Does it worry anyone else that his daughter/granddaughter may be prey for him in the future. He believes his emotions trump all levels of decency and morality. The daughter/lover is just as much a mental mess as her father/lover and may see nothing wrong with letting their child have relations with dear old dad/grandpa when she reaches puberty.
Just a thought. Plus, it gives me a headache trying to climb such a tangled family tree.
I just threw up in my mouth a little…well, actually it wasn’t a little – my desk looks like the observation platform at Niagara Falls!
wow…no family members coming in and saying “it’s a beautiful relationship, your all just jealous of the love they share with each other”? I’m surprised…bets on how many posts before a family member says how wonderful they are and what great parents they are…monies go to PYSIH of course :)
This takes the father daughter relationship to a whole new disguisting level
People, people….calm down, it’s okay. They live in Australia.
It would be okay if they lived in Arkansas… Or the backwoods of the Commie-Wealth of Massachusetts….(it’s okay I live there, I can make fun if I want)…. Or Maine, even
they’re consenting to it, so even though it’s probably one of the sickest things i can think of, i suppose they should be left to their sick ways. i agree that one of them needs to be “helped” though, you can’t do that to a child, genetic defects are a very very serious thing to keep in mind.
i certainly hope the child they already have doesn’t grow up to be some kind of nutjob, or will suffer physical problems from this ill-fated couple.
INCEST IS COOL!
Even ANIMALS don’t have sex with their offspring. They’re genetically programmed to KNOW IT IS WRONG.
sick bastards.
you’re kidding right? if a cat has a litter of kittens (i’m picking cats, but this goes for just about any animal) and one of those kittens turns out to be male, do you really think that at some point, it wouldn’t impregnate his mother? if your answer to that is “yes”, you’re a very naive person.
many animals are genetically programmed to scare away their offspring once the time is right, but if their paths would cross at a later time, they’d reproduce just the same.
I had a lot of guinea pigs once and a father ended up impregnating his daughter.
Something some people may not know about is that there has been a fair amount of research done that implies that people who look similar being attracted to each other is more common than the old ‘opposites attract’ rule.
I’m not sure why, evolutionarily, unless maybe it originally kept family members close to home and supportive. But not sexually interested.
Here’s some personal info that’s relevant, even though I know it annoys people that I keep inserting my own life experiences into this forum—
I located my birth mother when I was 21. Within a week she shipped my younger, 16 year old brother (that I hadn’t known about) to live with me and my husband, because she was having problems with him. Imagining that she might be the root of those problems obviously did not occur to her.
I can say that it’s a bizzare thing to see people who look like you, if you aren’t used to it. It feels nice. I was immediately physically attracted to him, but since I was an adult, with some thought, I realized that it was just because he had similar physical characteristics that I had. Also, he really was physically very beautiful inside and out even though he was disturbed.
Because he was so young, and I guess, reacting the same way, it didn’t take long for him to get infatuated with me. My husband at the time was a real trooper, but it was a weird setup, and it ended up causing problems for me and my husband, so after a few months I had to send him home. And then ignore all the letters he kept sending me. I’m so glad that I knew about the similar looks thing, and that I was able to stay in the ‘big sister who never knew you’ mode.
He kept inappropriately contacting me for several years afterwards (I’m assuming he was never able to find the ‘little brother’ mode, and I was forced to maintain no contact. Sadly, he ended up committing suicide five years ago on Thanksgiving, by hanging himself from a light fixture.
My point is, as weird as it sounds, family who are separated often are attracted to those people when they meet them. There are at least 2 news reports circulating now about siblings who have been separated and are now in intimate relationships. And have had children.
Look at their pics. They LOOK like each other.
The problem with this story is that they were not siblings, and one of the people involved was significantly older and should have known better. And, it’s creepy because it seems obvious that (considering his sexual remarks) that if he’d been in the home while his daughter was young, he’d have been molesting her. I honestly believe that if I’d grown up with my brother, that wouldn’t have happened. We would have had a sibling connection, and nothing more.
I feel very sorry for the couple that were adopted out and then met each other, married, and had children. Especially since they now have legal charges against them. I imagine that once they found out they were siblings, they were concerned about their children’s health. I don’t think they should be prosecuted because they did not know they were related- but, they should not have any more kids.
This story is different. Both the father and the daughter knew of each other’s existence. That’s willful incest. They should be prosecuted, and their children adopted out, so that they don’t suffer with the stigma of having their grandfather and mother being their parents.
As an adoptee, it’s very easy to discern familial attractions between strangers and just being horny for some family member. I would imagine that many divorce cases mirror this kind of situation, and it’s more common than people think.
The solution is a change in adoption law as well as education about inappropriate relationships. I’m guessing that all the removed LDS from their polygamist compounds are getting a crash course in this now.
From everything I’ve read, this case is nothing like the cases where adoptees have met and married. He knew this was his daughter, and he chose to be the worst kind of parent for her and their eventual children. The age difference, to me, smacks of pedo.
Look at their pictures again- they look the same. That is excusable for people in the same genetic pool who don’t know they are swimming in the shallow end. It’s not excusable for adults who obviously know better.
And, the fact that this commented publicly about how great the sex was with his daughter tells you that he has a problem with social boundaries to begin with.
I’m kind of wondering why the mother/exwife of this couple hasn’t surfaced and given an opinion. I can understand though, why she may want to stay anonymous. Mia Farrow going to the media about Woody Allen fucking their underaged adopted child didn’t affect his career- but as far as I know, she hasn’t made a movie since.
This whole situation is wrong, but the reasons it’s wrong are multiple.
c
Uhmmm…wow.
There’s a similar case in Germany – it went before their highest court right around the same time that the above case went to court. The Germany case involves a brother and sister: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Stuebing
How could you even be attracted to your DAD?
I read that the heart defect the first baby died of wasn’t the result of a genetic problem, just bad luck, but I don’t know whether or not that’s true.
I think the whole thing is quite weird and gross, but they’re consenting adults and should be able to do what they like in their own bedroom. I would be completely indifferent to the relationship if they weren’t having children. I think if there’s a strong risk of genetic problems (and there’s got to be in this case) then it’s morally wrong to have kids. But not hell-worthy in any case.
Meaghan, Take a close look at these two. There’s a strong risk of genetic problems no matter who they breed with.
Glorybug
Thanks for the insight. In Massachusetts I belive that they ae screwing around with birth certificates (or they may have abandoned the idea) as to accomodate the while gay marriage thing. The problem with accomodating gay marriage on a bith certificate is the simple fact that the real purpose of a birth certificate is that its purpose is to help one establish their blood lines, as opposed to making Henry Fitzpatrick and Patrick Fitzhenry “parents”. Only 1 could have contributed the sperm and where did the egg come from?
Maybe what is needed is source lines on a birth certificate – the name of the egg source and the name of the sperm source. I know that somewhere the ACLU will hate my idea, because the sperm source of the family of Henry and Patrick Fitzeachother may have more parental rights.
Just because it’s legally OK, does not make it morally OK. I also oppose “Hate Crime” bills because their scope is growing like cancer. Unfortunately these peoples’ morals are based on feelings, so my opening sentence to them is irrelavant.
While I oppose legislating morality, the simple fact of this case is that it involves more than just the two adults! While there are few perfect parents, there are certain situations that should be avoided and this is the perfect case!
Their relationship should never recieve the blessing of marriage nor shoud such be allowed to produce children. Unfortunately there is only so much we can do to stop egg and spern from getting togther. For these two – seperate wards in an asylum would be a good place to start.
Yes I rambled, because it was hard to say anything!
The problem is that logically they are right about being 2 consenting adults, but morally they are fucked up and unfortunately the only one who is going to be in hell soon is their child.
If you wanna have sex with your parents, pull down the shades and pull up a condom.
The family tree is going to look more like a schematic diagram. Grandma is also step mom. mom is also a a sister, dad is also grandpa, aunts & uncles are also brothers!
These people have a different moral base than most, they have that of animals and should be neutered and spayed!
absolute most disgusting thing EVER!! THESE 2 deserve hell. that child is going to have a hell of social life once she and her friends are old enough to web search, say 7 or 8 years ?
Who needs friends, she’s got family.
No condoms, Fred. They need permanent birth control! (no excuses if condom failed)
Sure suck on daddy as long as you want, but when you start having babies it becomes our problem. Why? Because, eventually, we’ll have to pay tax dollars for the health care etc. of a genetically defective child.
So before you play Tarzan with daddy, make sure one of yous get fixed.
There’s such an ick factor to this situation. For me, it’s not so much the genetic factor, or even the thought of the creepy sex— if their children do not have genetic defects, they will most certainly still have massive emotional and developmental damage.
Even worse, they’re just shitty parents. What kind of parents would have children, knowing (unless grandpa ends up marrying his own grandaughter in 10-odd years… that they are going to make the kid’s life hell? I’m pretty tolerant, but I can’t see that I’d ever allow my children to be their playmates, or to let them have any contact with the freaky parents. Their child is going to end up being a pariah, made fun of, and generally not respected much at all.
If they can’t set a normal example for their child, how is she going to learn boundaries, and who she should say no to sex with- and at what age? Hard to learn boundaries when normal for you is having a bad dream and interupt your parents having sex when you want to crawl in with them for comfort like most little kids do- and it’s your mother and grandpa you interrupted! Ughgh.
Fred- I’m not sure how the gay marriage thing figures into any of this- while people have gotten sex changes and then were able to apply for an amended birth certi., the original is never destroyed. If two men somehow adopted as husband/wife, the child could have an amended cert. showing them as parents, but there’d still be the original on file. In fact, when I plug in my info into the California Live Birth Index, it pulls up four separate birth certificates. I don’t care much if a man/woman or man/man or woman/woman want to get a marriage license, or want to share their income, insurance and will/death proceeds… but an original birth certificate for a child needs to legally have correct info on it as to the bio parents, and if amended through any other situation should be clearly marked as such, so that the child at least knows something on it has been changed.
Without getting into any adults right to do whatever kink they like in their bedroom, as long as it’s not illegal, the most obvious answer to this is to have children DNA tested at birth. Children who test showing related parents should be adopted out with an amended cert. The child should have access to the original when they are of age. It will still suck, but hopefully having been raised by parents that weren’t incestuous would probably level that out. At the same time, adoption law regarding birth certs, and privacy really needs an overhauling. The children should have more rights to their medical and genetic background, and the parents should have less privacy rights.
The fun part of that would be all those women who got pregnant outside of their marriage and tried to pass the child off as their husbands! And, oh, all the poor married men who would have to pony up for the kids they fathered outside their marriage! Instant mayhem. I’m guessing the technology for auto birth DNA testing isn’t all that far off.
I’d still like to know what the daughter/wife’s biological mother thinks of her daughter having kids with her exhusband, and what the father of the daughter/wife’s other 2 children has to say. And where those other 2 children are right now?
My brain hurts now. Would the daughter/wife’s of the first 2 also be their step-grandmother? And then the grandpa would also be their step-father? What would that make the children in relation to each other?
c
As icky as this seems to be on the surface, I cannot pass judgement on someone else simply because I don’t share their views. I’m not attracted to my family members. Nor would I be having sex with them. But among the moralists crying for fire and brimstone for these two, there are some who’ve had that one “hot cousin” they thought was attractive before their moral indoctrination kicked in and prohibited them from thinking about it. The point I’m making is that you can’t make everyone else in the world do what you think is right, just because it’s what YOU think is right. Incest occurs in nature. There are genetic safeguards, such as kicking your offspring out of the nest before they mature, but it happens frequently enough to be studied. Don’y you dare suggest we’re any better than animals. The only truly acceptable reason that incest is “wrong” is lack of genetic diversity in offspring. The rest of your reasoning is invalid, because you aren’t the Moral High Ground of the Universe, no matter what your preacher told you.
I don’t wanna do my sister. But I’m not gonna stop you from doing yours. And I have no right to.
I think I could reasonably argue that incest between a father and daughter or in fact anyone in direct lineage is actually more than simply wrong, it’s abusive of the social dynamic of parenthood.
We impress upon ourselves more human characteristics when our children are introduced to us. We develop a trust relationship and we build objective principles based on who we are by who the people around us are. A foundation stone of this is who are our parents?
We build up an artificial relationship where we assume trust in a relationship with one or both parents. They’re there before we learn to distrust what they say or do. To capitalize on that in a sexual relationship is wrong for more than simply the fact that they might produce genetically inferior offspring. It’s capitalizing on and thus abusing the relationship established before the time of reasonable thought.
I think we can safely demonize those who prey upon minors, mentally handicapped and even the elderly, and that this is simply a psychological extension of the same classification of abuse. Our parents are often the people who tell us the core answers of our reality, they have a power over us that should not be abused.
Jason, what about a grown adult deciding what he or she wants?
What about a grown adult that can willfully say “no”?
If my ma or pa came to me and said “I want to fuck you” I’d be appalled, albeit they taught me my core answers of reality. Me being a grown adult I’d say “hell no” to them. I am not sure we can classify this case as an extension of the same abuse as preying on handicap, minors, and elderly folk because the lady here is a grown adult with an able mind. She can consent to it or choose not to consent. But I see where you’re going with this.
Though your typical focus on Cruel and Unusual punishments turns my stomach a little bit, I think this particular argument is insightful and correct in all but one area–you were given instruction on what is right and wrong from your parents, now imagine that you were given a loophole in that mentality throughout your childhood that let them use you as a sex toy.
This “relationship” appears to have been “built” over time. The concept of predatory seduction isn’t by itself illegal, but think about what this relationship gave this father.
1. He had access to her, including continued communication.
2. He had intimate knowledge of her throughout her life, including her fears, weaknesses and likes.
3. He’s had the literal control of a father to a daughter throughout her life. Literally: “Listen to your daddy when he tells you he loves you. No seriously, he LOVES you”
Think about someone who might not have all of the advantages you had growing up. Someone who maybe didn’t have a way of separating fact from fiction. Someone who probably was sexually molested by someone if not their father, very early on in life and who suffered from a lot of guilty feelings that they could only really relate to life by transforming those feelings of guilt and shame into something else.
Now add the final ingredient to all of this…
Faith in a religion that states, Everything happens for a reason, including Love… and even has a certain child named Moab, born of incest to add weight to the transformation of a relationship built in incest into one that might seem “right.”
I know she’s guilty of incest as well, but I look on this with an eye not on the traditional mores of incest is bad, but that abusive relationships that use material gleaned from your very birth are related and bear resemblance to crimes against minors, the elderly and yes the mentally handicapped. When the father is the one handicapping the child, doesn’t it seem like at least a necessary investigation into how this relationship was built should be considered?
heh hot cousins.. you know it isn’t illegal to marry your first cousin in some states??? Massachusetts is one and I know there are several others.. I grew up in MA and I still think sex with any family members (aunts, uncles, cousins, mom,or dad any of them!!) is wrong even if it is consensual
Jason,
I love the way you are thinking this one through. I knew where you were going to go with this one. I was right.
What you said is true IF we (key word) “assume” that the people in this article lived that life. From the words written, we do not know that for sure. So based on what we read here in PYSIH we should only base our arguments on the text given.
I agree with you, if all of what you wrote DID in fact happen, then of course it would be a psychological extension of the same classification of abuse. But we don’t know that for sure. Yes, we can assume.
But let’s focus on the text given.
A. The text did not say she was sexually molested early on in life (used as a sex toy).
B. The text did not state that she suffered from a lot of guilty feelings.
C. The text did not state John Deaves had control throughout her life.
If I controlled you Jason, would you be able to decide for yourself?
“I was looking at him, sort of going, ‘Oh, he’s not too bad.’” <-consent
IF this happened in an environment like in Texas with the polygamist sect:
The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints didn’t allow the girls to have much contact with the rest of the world. Also the FDLS preached fear to the girls.
So they were isolated. Was Jenny Deaves isolated? (she did lead her own adult life)
Was she not allowed to have contact with others? (she did have prior intimate relations) Granted she was separated from her dad for a time. Having being away from daddy, and not isolated, would give build her an able mind to consent.
For someone closed in and not allowed contact with anyone, it would give your words merit. But if the child is allowed outside they can learn from others that “oh boy, sleeping with dad is wrong”. Others, being teachers, social workers, neighbors, children’s programs on TV, music, kiddie friends, etc.
The text leads us to believe she was allowed contact with the outside world.
It does not suggest she was molested as a child. Your argument is based on pure assumption. You used words like “maybe” , “probably” and “might not” to suggest uncertainty.
“When the father is the one handicapping the child…”
We don’t know if John did in fact handicap Jenny.
I stay with my argument that: (based on the text) We can’t classify this case as an extension of the same abuse as preying on handicap, minors, and elderly folk. The documentation does not support it.
I’m not trying to snipe you in any way. I find this debate refreshing.
I have a *bad* habit of looking for more details beyond what’s presented.
The judge seems to support your position:
Special Note: I apologize for the Queen’s English spelling of offense and offenses that follow.
“The present offences are atypical instances of incest,” Judge Millsteed said during the proceedings. “This is not a case where a father has violated his daughter and used his position of authority to take advantage of her powerlessness. Rather, this is a case of a mutually consensual union, formed by adults, who had previously had little contact. However, the offence of incest exists not merely to protect children from sexual abuse. In my view, other relevant factors include the need to prevent the high risk of congenital defects of children born of incestuous relationships and to prevent children who are brought up in a family unit founded on an incestuous relationship from suffering psychological harm and social stigmatization. Those factors assume significance in this case.”
It appears from other information about the case that the reason Jennifer didn’t get a proper dose of the Westermarck effect was because John was sent to prison when she was just a toddler, and Jennifer’s mother divorced John and took her away.
Jason, thanks for the additional info.
Also, this is the first I heard about the “Westermarck effect”.
Do you know of any current cases in which this applies?
I’d like to research this more.
You know there was a case not along ago where a guy kidnapped a young girl and held her hostage in his basement. In time they became friends, and he starting giving her freedom.
Eventually, she ran away and he went on to commit suicide. This case was outside the USA, maybe in Europe? – I’m not sure. Perhaps the Westermarck effect applied to that case?
Thanks again for your knowledge.
The Westermarck effect as defined to me in a journal I read several years ago, is at its simplest: “Familiarity breeds enough contempt to overcome the attraction to features similar to your own.” This is not a scientific definition, but more just a nod to some of the theory behind why Oedipal and Elektra style relationships eventually are replaced with a rejection of that parent as a sexual object.
Let me state here, I’m a computer programmer, not a professional psychologist so what I say is based on what I think I understand, not what I’m professionally capable of supporting.
Early on in life, we start emulating adults, even adopting the facial features of the small sexual interactions we see. We compete with one another for praise and a sense of accomplishment that helps to guide us and assure us that what we’re doing is right and not wrong. Wrong leads to unhappiness in the people around us, right leads to smiles and laughter, hugs, treats and a host of other positive things. Many or even most try to get positive attention, some go for more negative attention.
Eventually we start having our first sexual feelings. They aren’t ours, they aren’t an attempt to procreate, but they are children trying on the roles and themes of adults they see around them. This is when children become curious about what’s under clothes, when some children start masturbating against furniture and when we begin establishing a pseudo-sexual relationship with one parent or the other. It’s not disgusting or perverted, it’s just children who are playing monkey see, monkey do or who accidentally start finding out that they have a greater concentration of good feelings when certain things are stimulated.
Good parents guide us past the awkwardness of these stages, bad parents prey on it or allow it to turn into unhealthy obsessions in later life.
It’s through these stages of development we learn that we are individuals, that we are better at some things than others and that our parents and other adults are human and thus just as prone to mistakes as we all are. We start taking responsibility for our actions, thinking through the consequences of those actions and at those moments of individuality we realize we aren’t going to have sex with our cousins, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, uncles or others close to our group. The fixations usually come to people our own age or other maternal or paternal figures outside of our family.
Crushes on teachers fall into this range. By the time we’re about 24 or 26(some manage this much younger and some never manage it), we’ve basically become who we are going to be for the rest of our lives. We break or make new habits, but our general functional resolve is in place and we have had enough independent experiences to choose what we do and accept the consequences and rewards for those actions. Most modern adults have their most meaningful sexual relationships after their 25th birthday, even if they’ve been having sex of some kind for a decade.
This ramble through development is meant to show what I deem as a healthy evolution.
You’re a kid, you try out things to figure them out, you refocus your attention on the larger world after your parents steer you out of anything unacceptable or damaging and then you take responsibility for yourself and break out on your own. This is what most functional people manage to do.
I think you’re in the wrong profession, Jason. :)
I got the “Westermarck effect” confused with a term called Stockholm syndrome, in which hostages sympathize with the aims of their captors. The little girl that learned to love the man that kidnapped and molested her had the Stockholm syndrome.
She was upset to learn that he commited suicide. She seemed to bond with him throughout her captivity.
When a Server gets broken, you order a replacement part or you patch the software. When a person gets broken you have to spend a lot of time gaining their confidence, building a rapport, and then convincing them to fix themselves.
Programmers and computer professionals deal with a complexity that tends to have some repeatable solutions. Psychologists and Psychiatrists often deal with people who they cannot throw away or replace who never recognize that the only person capable of making them better is the patient themselves.
I thought you were talking about the “Patty Hearts” Stockholm syndrome, but perhaps it’s my birthplace in the mountains of North Carolina that helped to bring notice of the Westermarck effect. There are far fewer kissing cousins in the Appalachian mountains than once thought, but the concept was scary enough that I know some family legends involving a real piece of work who killed his wife to marry his 16 year old daughter, had 8 kids with her and then killed all of them one night in order to keep his “sin” from spreading.
These two both admitted to at one point thinking it was wrong, but for various reasons in the course of their relationship they rejected the “wrongness” of it for other rewards. The more I think about it, the more I think the two could reasonably argued to simply be “insane” and thus unable to make rational decisions.
Awww gross.
Worse though, what happens when poor little Celeste Deaves googles herself?
I think Jason’s insights are really being played down here.
Both of my children have gone through the stage of wanting to ‘marry me’ when they grow up. No doubt, because when they expressed that I didn’t treat them as adults fully capable of understanding the ramifications of that. Through me, my boys will have learned that they can express love, even inappropriate love, and not be rejected or abandoned, but guided in what exactly IS appropriate. They have also learned that it is safe to trust some people- that not everyone is interested in exploiting them or having sex with them.
Children need to have relationships that are not based on sex or on having something the other person wants. People they feel safe with. That isn’t possible when the people who in society and in the norm are supposed to be their caregivers.
These parents are not going to be able to guide their child regarding appropriate relationships- because they aren’t able to do that themselves. They are not going to be able to teach them how to form non-sexual supportive relationships. They are teaching that whoever turns you on is fair game. Not a good framework for making good decisions.
I had a terrible crush on a cousin when I was a kid. And nothing happened from it because my family had pretty clear boundaries. It wasn’t a blood-cousin, since I’m adopted, but in our family, he was still my cousin. My adoptive brother didn’t have those boundaries. He tried to molest me until I moved out at 17. He said- we weren’t blood-related, so it didn’t matter. Well, it DOES matter, and the truth is that he wouldn’t have cared even if we were.
Social structures are usually there for a reason, whether you disagree with them or not.
And- other news I have read about this case implies that the father and daughter were involved with each other physically over 15 years before they decided to hook up and create the story about how they’d just met. His ex-wife claims she divorced him because of her perception that they’d been inappropriately intimate at least 4 times- starting at the beginning of their 15 year marriage, and that her husband and his daughter had even vacationed together… without her.
So I think Jason has a little more insight into the dynamics of how this relationship evolved than he’s being given credit for.
c
And, Raeann- yeah. Whether or not genetically related people as adults choose to fuck each other is one thing, but involving a kid is just selfish and sick. I had a boy at my house today who is smart, funny, in the GATE program with my eldest… and his mom told me today that he gets teased for being tall (his dad is 6ft 6), because people think he’s been held back, even though he’s the same age as my son, and in the same gifted class. If children will tease and hurt the feelings of a good kid who is just ‘tall’, what do you really think kids are going to say about some girl who’s mother fucked her grandfather, and then gave birth to her? Puhleese. I’d hate to be on the receiving end of that google search.
Perhaps the Mr. Deaves can only get an honorable mention this year for “Father of the Year”.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080428/wl_nm/austria_abuse_dc_10
No, but the child should be taken away from them.
*Tries to hold barf in
Now she has two other children from another man. I wonder how she explained to them that she sleeps with grandpa. But hey, look at the two of them, how may other options would they have.
As vile and repulsive as this story is, they are consenting adults and do not deserve hell.
I D O N T T H I N K T H A T T H E R E I S A N Y T H I N G W R O N G I N T H I S !!!! IF SOMEONE LOVES SOMEONE LET THEM DO THAT IT DOESNT REALLY MATTER THAT THEY ARE FATHER AND DAUGHTER…..
And yer from Arkansas, West Virginia, Alabama, Mississippi or Georgia?
Do you understand the dangers to the offspring? Do you understand how sick this is? Do you have any morals? Or is your father your brother, your cousin and your uncle?
I just want to say that I live in Georgia and I do not know of anyone that is in an incestorous relationship or that is the by product of one. Just wanted to state that for the case and yes I do live in South Georgia which is a whole other world than just Georgia. I find this story to be absolutely despicable. They are bring little people into this world that can’t help themselves. That is the unforgivable part of this whole story. The other part that just grosses me out is the fact that he says that he knew that it was wrong but yet the sex was so good. Who looks at their daughter like that whether they don’t know them or not? Most normal fathers look at their grown daughters with pride and with warm wishes not with lust. GROSS!
Both of them should be punished. How can they let them go? Both of them are SICK!!! What happen to our humanity people?
ew…
So when they do it, she would be saying
“OH DAD! YEEES!”
and he would be saying:
“WHO’S YOUR DADDY!”
:(
This is disgusting! It is also our problem in more than just the burden that it could potentially put on society if one of their offspring has health problems. What about in a couple of generations? Let’s say Celeste is the only child they have and she remains healthy to the day she dies. When she grows up, hopefully she won’t procreate, but if she does, hopefully it will be with someone unrelated to her. Maybe she tells her husband about her mom/sis; dad/gramps situation because it’s not her fault afterall, she can’t be held accountable and her husband is one of those extremely understanding kind of guys. BUT, they decide that there is no reason that their children should know about it and the facts become skeletons in a closet. Now my children grow up and have their own children. One day my grandchild meets their grandchild and they fall in love, marry and have a child born with some kind of deformaty and everyone goes, oh, such is life….it sucks sometimes. BULLSHIT! These 2 are responsible because there will be genetic faults carried into other peoples bloodlines and they don’t even get the blame. It could happen to any of us and this is most likely why we have half the shit that’s out there – Downs Syndrome, Treacher Collins, Bowed Legged-babies, or whatever else you can think of. They should be thrown in jail for endangering humanity! Throw away the keys! Force them to be sterilized! Making it illegel but slapping them on the wrist does nothing. We know they are still doing it, and I don’t care if they only have one kid….they are a danger to the world as far as I am concerned.
I just want to say yeah it’s like super gross and all but if i’m right according to the bible it was only Adam and Eve right??? then two sons…i’m sure you all know the rest. WE’RE ALL RELATED!!! AAAHHHH!!! LMAO um yeah but seriously people, children with birth defects are born everyday to non related people so yeah. that’s it and that’s all folks!!
stupid logic, because after Cain killed Abel he was sent to live with another tribe, and married into them. Plus how many kids did Eve have because I can only recall three boys?
Luluwa was Cain’s wife, Aklia (or Aklemia) married Seth. In all Eve only had 5 children. Cain, Abel, Luluwa, Seth and Aklia.
No, because its their business. Not ours. If they want to be disgusting, then its their problem.
Hell is for rapists and murderers