UPDATE: Michael Gagnon
LAWSUIT FILED IN WRONG-WAY CRASH THAT KILLED FIVE IN FAMILY
by Erica Blake, Toledo Blade
Nearly a year after Michael Gagnon was sentenced to 43 years in prison for causing the drunken-driving crash that killed a mother and four children, the victims’ family has sued him, his family, and the owners of the Oregon bar where he became intoxicated.
The suit was filed in Lucas County Common Pleas Court late Thursday by surviving members of the family, including Danny Griffin, Jr., who was driving his family home to Maryland on the night of the crash. It seeks damages in excess of $25,000 against each defendant.
“The timing in the filing of the lawsuit does not indicate that they are moving forward. They are doing as well as can be expected,” said attorney Kurt Anselmi of Bloomfield Hills, Mich., who along with Cooper & Walinski of Toledo is representing the family.
“The timing of this lawsuit is not to indicate that they are at one point or another point in their grieving process,” he added.
Gagnon, 25, was convicted on seven charges and sentenced on June, 27, 2008, to consecutive prison terms for causing the crash that killed five members of the Griffin family and severely injured two others. With a blood-alcohol content more than twice the legal limit, the Adrian man drove the wrong way on I-280, colliding nearly head on with Mr. Griffin’s van.
Killed in the crash were Bethany Griffin, 36; Jordan Griffin and Haley Burkman, both 10; Lacie Burkman, 7, and Vadie Griffin, 8 weeks. Sydney Griffin, 9, and Danny Griffin, 37, were treated for injuries.
The family was driving through Toledo Dec. 30, 2007, after spending several days in Michigan celebrating the holidays with family.
On that same night, Gagnon was drinking at the Rodeo Bar & Grill on Navarre Avenue in Oregon at a family gathering. The bar has since closed and another establishment opened in its place.
Listed in the suit are Samuel Gagnon and Michael Gagnon, Sr., who according to the complaint, owned the pickup Gagnon was driving on the night of the crash. Also listed were Michael Yousif, Jon Roumaya, and Glen Murdzia, owners of the Rodeo Bar & Grill on Navarre Avenue.
The lawsuit alleges that each defendant was negligent in his actions, including the bar owners for serving Gagnon excessive alcoholic beverages and his family for giving him access to the vehicle.
Gagnon has served one year in the Toledo Correctional Institution. His case was appealed to the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals alleging six errors, including that “the trial court violated Gagnon’s constitutional rights and abused its discretion when it imposed [sentences for] all counts of the indictment consecutive to one another.”
207 Comments »
I see 2 reasons for suing….
1) so that the bar owners learn a serious enough lesson that if they are ever able to open another bar they will not make the same mistake (continuing to serve alcohol to an obviously intoxicated person) again and contribute to the death(s) of another person/people
2)If I am intepreting this correctly, it appears that the two survivors were a man and his 9 year old daughter. He has to support her, and the article does not mention the extent of his injuries. Perhaps he is unable to work as a result of the accident. Or perhaps he can not make enough on one income to provide for her properly–sometimes the cost of childcare for working extra hours is enough to make those extra hours pointless. Yes, he could receive social security disability if he is in fact disabled. Yes there is childcare assistance. But these do not always add up to enough, and perhaps he would rather see those who hold some responsility for the accident pay for it than other tax paying citizen.
I could be completely wrong……I am just saying that these are possible explanations.
3 Survivors of the crash, Sydney, Beau and Danny. Brett was staying with his Dad (Jack) over the holidays so he wasn’t in the car. (Note: Brett sometimes reads this site.)
Arguably, Jack Burkman, who lost both of his daughters in the crash is also a victim.
I should have added Jodie Griffin, Sydney and Jordan’s mother.
How about suing the company that manufactured the alcohol he was drinking? Or the company he worked for for providing him with a paycheck in order to purchase said alcohol? Or sue the manufacturers of Mr. Griffin’s van because it wasn’t able to stand up to a head on collision with a drunk?
Nah, that sounds just as stupid as suing the owner of the vehicle that someone else was driving. Oh, wait….what?…umm, they’re doing that? That’s just stupid.
With all due respect, handing your vehicle over to someone who is clearly intoxicated is either one of two things. 1) It is accessory to murder, since they are assisting the drunk idiot in killing innocent people. 2) Negligent Homicide, for the same reasons.
Never, EVER hand your keys over to a drunk. It’s not just common sense; it’s the law.
If I am not mistaken, the owner of the car was a family member of, or owner of the bar. It was a family party at a bar that family members owned. So, yeah, there is a reason to sue the owner of the car. Families who part together in bars aren’t always known to make the wisest choices as to who they give access to their car keys to.
c
Oh, in other words, bother to read the backstory which has been around a while before you post ignorant things. My gut tells me that you’ve driven drunk before, and that’s why you are defending some POS in a story you obviously know nothing about.
If I’m not mistaken, wasn’t this the POS that just HAD to go get Taco Bell while he was drunk off his ass? Or am I confusing this with the tons of other stupid DUI POSs?
c
No glory, you have the correct DUI POS. To be fair, those Gorditas are pretty yummy.
Wait a second there now. Let’s not blame Taco Bell for this scrotum lesions shitty choice to drive, or maybe we should, it is somewhat addictive after all!
In this particular case, i think that the bar owner should not be sued. (I am going from memory here, so forgive me if I am missing something).
If I recall correctly, the family had a couple of hotel rooms booked right next to the bar, so they did not have to drive. I believe the family was having their XMas party at this bar. And, the designated non-drinkers had the vehicle keys, if I recall. So, continuing to serve alcohol to an intoxicated man who was part of a large group of “responsible” people at a party? I think that is reasonable.
Gagnon was at fault for the accident. I can understand suing the family members who then allowed him to take the keys and go drive, but only if it can be shown that they did not take reasonable steps to try and prevent it, AND if they did not alert the authorities after he took off. I really can’t recall the exact circumstances.
I dislike many members of this family. I think they are enablers and have tried their damnedest to absolve Michael of responsibility for the accident, but ultimately HE took they keys, HE drove over the objections of family members and HE killed that family. The bar was doing what they do – serving alcohol and giving people a place to party. If they KNEW that he was a driver with no backup, I can understand holding them accountable, but in this case I think they are being included because they have the deepest insurance pockets.
I don’t necessarily blame the victim’s family for including them – I blame the lawyers.
Oh man.. just looking at that family.. its like someone killed the Waltons.. fricken horrible..
the owners of any drinking establishment, including restaurants & casinos are responsible for over serving if they see that a patron is drunk. He should have been flagged from drinking.
I worked in a casino in Atlantic City…I flagged many a patron for being drunk.
Well Adrea, that’s true, because people sue the establishments and win. In other words, the reason you were told to flag patrons was to keep your establishment from being sued and losing a ton of money.
Is it right? Do we really need to hold the providers of a legal substance accountable for what their patrons do? Do we really need that kind of nanny-state?
Michael Gagnon could have just as easily bought 2 12-packs of beer and gone into a hotel room alone and drunk them. Would it be the beer sellers fault? Of course not.
What has happened is that the greedy lawyers have managed to win court cases because the bar owners have insurance, and the juries feel sorry (rightfully) for the injured family, so they award that money (which is usually significantly more than the actual offenders have available) out of sorrow. They don’t want to hurt the business owner, but they figure that since it’s coming from the insurance company, it doesn’t really hurt the owner – but of course, it does. Their insurance premiums go up, or they lose their insurance entirely, which forces them to close. They have to spend a lot of time and money to defend themselves, and it can have serious negative publicity for their business.
It’s not right. And it perpetuates the mentality that people are not responsible for THEIR own actions. It takes Gagnon’s decision to grab the keys and drive off in anger to get some tacos, out of his sphere of responsibility and implies that other people should have protected him (and the public) from himself.
The bar owners did nothing wrong. That’s why there were no criminal charges against them. Suing them is just an easy way to get a potential jury jackpot.
This strikes me as being similar to the families of shooting victims suing the gun companies.
I am on the fence on this one to some degree. What Mazzi says is true that he could just as easily have bought some beer, taken it home, got smashed and done the exact same thing.
The difference is that at a hotel/bar/pub the patrons:
a) have direct access to other patrons and;
b) have to go SOMEWHERE once the place is closed
Giving the venue a responsibility to ensure that they don’t serve people alcohol to such an extent that they are obviously seriously impaired is a mean of reducing the chance that idiots who can’t control themselves will do something stupid.
Whilst his actions are obviously his responsibility and he should suffer the full consequences of them – there is the fact that had the bar done what they were supposed to and stopped serving him before he was completely sozzled he may not have done what he did.
It’s a hard call. I think that people DO make their own choices and that they should wear the consequences of those choices …. but let’s face it, this site and the scumbags who appear thereon are living proof that some people SHOULD NOT HAVE THAT ABILITY and are incapable of making the RIGHT choices when it matters.
This wouldn’t be a problem if the drunk drivers or the violent drunks only ever killed or injured themselves – but because these idiotic actions can have the sort of tragic consequences for numerous innocent victims that we see here …….
I suppose the other issue is that, whether you agree with the laws about the venue having to police the patrons drinking habits or not …. they exist …. they were enacted by our elected representatives … and the venues are bound to abide by them.
(Apologies if I start to sound like Stapler on this one …. but I promise not to start hurling insults in all directions if you tell me you think I am wrong).
LOL Sam.
The thing is that it’s NOT illegal for a bar to serve an intoxicated patron, at least not in most areas. If there was some kind of ordinance in that locality, then the bartender would have been charged. The reason most bars try to cut people off is because bars have successfully been sued, as in the case above.
In this particular case, the bartender was aware that this was a family gathering and that the family had taken a few rooms in the adjoining hotel, if I recall. So, allowing one of the partiers to get totally shitfaced, under the assumption that he would be walking to the hotel room would not seem like a negligent act, even if Michael Gagnon was crawling out the door..
Besides, bartenders are not magicians or medical experts. They should not be held accountable for determining if a patron has had “too much”. Whats too much for me might be a normal buzz for you – and it could be exactly the same quantity. How can we expect a bartender to be able to decide that?
Hmmmm.. I may be wrong. I did an internet search and have come across some sites that say that it is illegal to serve an intoxicated person, but I just checked my state code book and it is definitely not a crime here. None of the sites I checked back up their contention, so I don’t know.
I did find specific info about New Jersey, which has something called the Dram Shop law, regarding serving intoxicated or minors. It seems like it has had to be toned down, since bars were finding it impossible to obtain insurance coverage.
I still don’t think it’s right to hold the supplier of a legal item accountable for the actions that the purchaser makes of the product.
I don’t feel sorry for the bar at all. The bar was searched after the murders, and was found to have illegal drugs in the safe as well as syringes pills and unknown vials of unidentified drugs. I don’t recall what the unknown drugs ended up being.
I do know this- I used to be a cocktail waitress in a busy bar. We would regularly take people’s keys away, call them a cab and throw them out. But then, we also didn’t keep illegal drugs, pills, syringes and $15,000 in our safe. And we didn’t let people stay drinking after they were shitfaced and high (Gagnon was on drugs, too) just because they were family members or friends.
I’d feel more sympathy for the bar owners if they weren’t so fond of drugs and not knowing when to cut drinkers off. Give me a break- it is really obvious at what point you refuse to serve even your friends and family members. Since the hotel they were staying at was nearby, I’m going to blame the ill-fated drunken run to Taco Bell on the pot the POS had smoked. You still get the munchies when you’re drunk.
I have celebrations with my family on holidays. We don’t get shitfaced, do drugs or drink and drive. It’s that simple. We don’t book hotel rooms knowing we plan to do drugs and get too drunk to drive. When you have to do that, when you PLAN to do that, you’ve got a problem. The fact that the whole family and the friends at the bar PLANNED for that is sad. When you have to plan in advance for a ‘safe’ place to get drugged out and shitfaced, you need help- even more so if you’re doing it as a family activity.
Maybe if they all get dragged into this lawsuit it will wake them up. What kind of loser family plans their holiday ASSUMING they’e all going to get shitfaced and need a hotel room? Smell the coffee, start going to AA or just go cold turkey- but pay the civil fine because you ARE responsible. It’s really just lucky more family members didn’t kill someone that night.
Check the Gagnon family DUI history. People seem to forget this POS KILLED 5 people. Look up the stats of how many times people drunk drive before they are ever caught. This was GOING to happen sooner or later.
If have nothing against people partying at home. Hope you don’t drunkenly trip and break a bone at home. And if you like getting high, keep some burritos in the freezer so you don’t feel compelled to get behind the wheel and wipe out someone’s family for a chalupa.
c
Sorry, perhaps this story is a bit old, but the Owners of the Rodeo Bar and Grill lost their liquor license in large part to the large amount of Human Growth Hormone found in the bar.
Michael Gagnon is personally responsible for his actions, but in this case the bar was engaged in illegal activities that may have contributed in this case. I don’t think the steroids were specifically mentioned, but Gagnon was both Stoned and Drunk when he killed Bethany and the girls.
If the bar owners were engaged in illegal drug selling, they should be prosecuted criminally, regardless of Gagnon’s homicide. And, then they absolutely would be rightfully included in a lawsuit. The difference being “legal substance” vs. “illegal substance”.
Personally, having known many potheads and drunks, I would have to say that choosing alcohol as the “legal substance” is probably stupid, but the law is what it is. (I am not familiar firsthand with HGH users, but I understand it’s not a nice thing). When someone chooses to engage in the distribution and use of illegal substances, no matter how stupid they think laws are, they are opening themselves up for negligence charges.
I just thought – wouldn’t it be cool if the dealers COULD be charged with murder if their “client” kills someone whole drugged?
Anyway Jason, I pretty much bow to you regarding the facts in this matter. I know this case hit you hard, and I was 100% behind you about the murderer and his twisted family. I’m just trying to focus the blame where is is deserved – on MICHAEL GAGNON.
Don’t get me wrong, this level of discussion makes me a little… well iffy. I originally thought the Coffee splash case against McDonalds was pretty bad, until I realized that the coffee was kept way over the boiling temperature of water and that the heat of the exterior of the cup was nearly 200 degrees on the cup they handed to customers. It means that restaurants changed their habits and stopped serving lava in thin paper cups as a course of action, but I felt the award was still a little excessive.
I don’t know how I feel here. in 08, I was pretty much hell bent on burning down anything that had to do with the problem. I still feel that DUI caused deaths should be considered murder and thus capital offenses, but that’s tempered by my firm and perhaps liberal belief that drugs should be legal and highly regulated, rather than illegal and poorly enforced through a hodge podge of agencies and poor laws.
I don’t know, I can only focus on the portion of the problem I think I can directly affect. At the moment that’s getting a law passed here and now, in NC that allows a judge to put the Death penalty on the line in Vehicular manslaughter cases when the driver is also convicted of a simultaneous DUI.
I am 100% with you regarding the drugs (except I draw the line at completely man-made drugs… pot, cocaine, opium, heroin – all should be legal and cheap and HIGHLY regulated. PCP, meth and the like.. no freaking way!) But that’s a subject that will cause the trolls to come out in droves, lol.
The McD’s case? I studied that intensely in one of my law classes, and I say that McD’s was not negligent. They are guilty of all kinds of other destructive, dishonest and deceitful practices, but not negligence in this case. The jurors even admitted that McD did nothing wrong, but Stella’s injuries were SO severe, and McD could afford it (AND McD’s was being buttheads about paying her case, when they routinely paid off other less severe claims), so they ruled in her favor. The judge had to actually reduce the insanely huge award, because it was so disproportionate.
Yet another example of how good-hearted people create a huge snowball effect of disaster down the road. That one ruling opened the litigation floodgates – helping to increase cost of goods, and contributing to the whole concept of no personal responsibility.
I think you and I are reading too much of the same case law….
GMTA? (Great Minds Think Alike). LOL
Mazzi- I’m no atty (though I’ve been told many a time that I should be), but it seems to me that the failure in the McDonald’s case was exactly what you said- ‘but Stella’s injuries were SO severe’.
It’s kind of hard to get severely injured if something didn’t severely injure you. Was it worth the settlement? I doubt it. It would be cool if people in civil cases could ‘plea bargain’ into less than $50mil payouts if they could guarantee they’d get laws passed limiting the circumstances that led to them being held responsible for personal injury in the first place. I understand the insurance companies would like a cap at $100k, because they are greedy bloodsuckers. But a 5 mil cap has to seem reasonable?
What this has to do with a POS DUI drugger wiping out a family, I don’t know. I must have digressed.
c
I apologize Adrea. I was wrong (see below). It may be actually illegal in NJ to serve an intoxicated person. But I think NJ is one of the few states that has such a law.
Sorry =)
errrr – see above?? LOL – I always get confused about where my response is going to be!
Yeah … I’m from Aus.
We have those types of laws here. Bars actually have posters up saying that it is illegal to serve alcohol to an intoxicated person.
I just assumed that, given what the article was talking about, that there were similar laws in play here.
The last place I worked at before I finished college installed actual breath-a-lizers in the place. Customers who were drinking and wanted to know their BAC inserted a normal drink straw into the opening and blew. There were like four of them on the walls.
The problem is, you have some individuals who are responsible and some who are not. The reality is that we live in a lawsuit happy time and age where everyone has been made liable even for their minor, or (sometimes) major, contributions to any crime.
I was always cautioned to cut anyone off who appeared drunk. Not only could the company be sued, but also the server. It is what it is. Par for the course.
Needless to say, giving someone keys who has been drinking is a huge no no. I personally think it is far worse than serving an adult an alchoholic drink because they ordered it. And I agree with Mazzi, the Gagnon clan has done nothing but enabled the murdering bastard. Quite frankly, I hope they lose everything if they handed that drunk murderer those keys. Lesson in stupidity.
I consider enablers just as bad as the criminal.
Mazzi said it all… I hate drunk drivers more than most, and want to see the victims get everything that is coming to them, but I don’t think the bar should be held responsible. People are responsible for their own actions.
I don’t think that consecutive sentencing in unconstitutional or it wouldn’t be an option!
This dirt bag needs to do his freakin’ time, quit wasting tax payer dollars and take some responsibility for his actions.
Considering the amount that is being sought, with an accident this horrible and preventable they could have asked for much, much more. The people who own the car are to a certain extent responsible for what happened, e.g. how did the keys get into Michael’s possession? The owners of any bar that serves excessive amounts of alcohol to customers should be prepared to make sure that any customer who obviously cannot drive is taken care of. It isn’t necessarily their legal responsibility (I don’t know the law), but it’s definitely an ethical responsibility. You run an establishment that serves a substance which impairs people’s ability to drive and make coherent decisions. Is it not then somewhat your responsibility to make sure that said customers don’t get into the driver’s seat of a car? I’ve been to many bars, including ones located in hotels, that have signs posted that they will not serve alcohol to obviously inebriated customers. If Michael wasn’t obviously inebriated to them, they should have really gotten into another line of work. The employees at the Taco Bell he stopped showed more a sense of responsibility than his family or the bar employees.
I don’t know exactly who shoud be sued and why, I am not that god at certain aspects of the law…. BUT anyone who defended Mr Gagnon I feel should be in the cross hairs of this suit…
Sure Michael was a nice person to x,y& Z, but then again Adolph Hitler did a lot for Germany…… was faithful to Eva Braun……
Could Taco Bell be sued because they noticed him drunk as well, but did not stop him either????? CCould the cops be sued for not responding fast enough???
See, thats exactly the problem here Fred… think of all the people who COULD be sued if we were really sleazy lawyers: (note: I am assuming that the insurance companies are included)
1. Gagnon
2. Gagnon’s family
3. The bar owner
4. The bartender
5. The person who owns the land the bar sits on
6. The company that manufactures the alcohol
7. The company that manufactures the glass that the alcohol was served in
8. The company that made the vehicle Gagnon drove
9. The company that made the key used to start the vehicle
10. The State for not constructing barriers to prevent people from driving on the wrong side of the road
11. As you said – the Taco Bell employees for not physically removing the keys
12. The cops for not responding fast enough
13. The ambulance for not responding fast enough
You get my point… all of these people or companies contributed, to some degree, in the circumstances that led to the murders. But then again, how about the people who swerved to avoid him? Are THEY liable because if Gagnon had hit them, he would not have been able to hit the Griffins? Of course not.
If we are going to say that Michael Gagnon was responsible for the accident (which he was), then ONLY a negligent act by one of the other “players” should be considered integral. If the bartender had reason to believe that Gagnon would drive, that is negligence. If the sister-in-law handed over the keys willingly, that’s negligence. Then, hell yes, include them.
But suing because they have deep pockets and the misfortune to have somehow been connected to the horrible events? Not right.
This is why our medical system is in such a shambles
Extra tests to cover ass completely
High malpractice insurance
I am not saying that all lawsuits are frivelious, but I am saying that there needs to be practical caps. A lawsuit should recover any economic damages incurred and future along with some money for pain & suffering, NOT make poeple instantly rich. It’s almost like if the Beverly Hillbillies was on today – instead of hitting oil, Daisy Mae would get a scar on her belly…..
Fred– for any one person who gets some whacked out jury award of 500mil for getting a splinter, there are 5000 people who got injured and screwed out of a reasonable settlement. Everyone just likes to focus on the ones who scammed instead of those who got screwed. And the insurance companies are happy to see people continue to focus on that.
c
And if that one who got the splinter and 500mil lost, there’d be more for those other ligit 5000.
I agree – it’s all a magic show – we see what they want us to see – we feel we are free because we don’t see the fences and we roam about within our comfort zone.
The question is – what happens when the fence goes thru our comfort zone…
Remember…the Taco Bell employees were the only people that night to even ATTEMPT to stop him, or at least delay him long enough for police to arrive. Gagnon left just minutes before Police arrived at the Taco Bell.
The Taco Bell employees should be commended for stopping Gagnon.
They were, and the man who called 911 was at one of the Memorial services. A former marine, he just wished he’d done more.
In this case, #1-4 are reasonable. We aren’t all lawyers. Every case is not the same. In this case, the family is logically suing #1-4. They aren’t even trying to sue the other ridiculous people mentioned, so what’s the point? Another case might logically have reason to sue all those people. This one doesn’t, and the family isn’t trying to. Based on the facts in this case, it IS logical to sue those people, and after having lost most of their family it’s kind of insulting to compare them with sue-happy people who would sue the ‘glass manufacturers’. I get your point, but I’m not sure this is the thread to discuss ‘what-ifs’ in. The real ‘ was’ speaks for itself.
c
43 years?! Not long enough if you ask me, he’ll be out in aprox. 7. I remember when this happened, it was and still is the most horrible thing I had seen or read. Five beautiful lives snuffed out because someone had to get their drunk on. Disgusting!!
It still makes me tear up when I see the pictures.
There’s no parole for his crime in Ohio; they have a law that will make him serve a minimum of 42 years as long as his sentence is upheld when they hear his appeal.
He should no9t be alive to make any appeals.
His current appeal is paper thin, mainly in that his attorney is arguing that the sentencing was unconstitutional because his sentence is all consecutive.
I think he’ll get a few years shaved off, but he’s not even trying to overturn the conviction, merely trying to get his sentence reduced to nothing.
As always you think you know everything.You must not have read the appeal,Jason!!!!!!!!!
Your son is still a coward for not accepting a guilty plea Clara.
I told you from the beginning that he and his attorney were playing this wrong, and I’ll tell you again. His real chance to reduce this sentence is this.
Step 1. Ask the appeals judge to amend his plea to Guilty, and in a clear statement in his own words, clearly accept full responsibility for his crimes–no, he still hasn’t even come close. If he needs to use the word murder, the family and friends on the other side of the courtroom, might understand him better. Something like, “I know now that what I did was no better than cold blooded Murder…”
Step 2. Ask the appeals judge for a sentencing review in 5 years time under the same complaint, except amend it that under the advisement of Michael’s attorney, Michael did not know how to accept complete responsibility for his actions, and his plea of “No Contest” did not fully consider the antagonism it and the public appeal, would inflict on the victims and their families. In consideration of Michael’s clear and stated understanding of the severity of his actions, you feel that the speed of the trial did not allow Michael to become fully aware of his own guilt and then add the constitutional protections you’re seeking in the Appeal claim.
Step 3. Ask for no less than half of the sentence handed down.
You and your son don’t get a second chance at this particular appeal. You “really” don’t get to change your plea after sentencing, but the appeals judge has broad powers and symbolism does matter. This appeal, really is paper thin.
Naw, I don’t think all those people could be sued.
It’s a negligence theory so you generally have to have some cause-in-fact and proximate cause.
So car manufacturer is out unless there was some problem with the car that related to the accident. Landowner has nothing to do with anything unless you could tie them into knowing that intoxicated people were being served or some other illegal activity was going on there. The people who manufacture the glass, again, have no cause in fact or proximate cause. Those cases likely wouldn’t survive summary judgment.
And it’s not just NJ with laws against serving alcohol to intoxicated people. It’s most, if not all, states.
I knew Bethany from online chat boards where we discussed our obsession with childrens clothes (crazy but hey!) Anyway, she was one of the sweetest, most thoughtful I loving people I have ever “met” online. This was such a tragic, tragic loss. I don’t know how I feel about others being sued for Michaels actions but what I do know is that nothing could ever even touch the surface of what this family will need to do to regain even an inkling of normalacy. It was such a useless tragedy that hopefully some asshat will think of before he gets behind the wheel drunk.
49 years!!!! C’mon, you have got to be kidding!!! Five beautiful lives were tragically wasted. Five murders!!
Ok, it is my feeling that Americans are to lawsuit happy. In this case, I think it is justifiable. Whatever the Griffins can get, to make up for the terrible loss that they have experienced, the better.
My prayers are with the remaining family members. So sad.
Oh wow.
Is it horrific for me to say… at least Momma got to go with her babies? I find some peace in that.
It’s never the ones who go… it’s the ones left behind.
My prayers to dad, sons and family.
I don’t think I’ll ever be able to go taco bell again.
Oh… and being a bartender… I’d have to say…
If a “family party” were taking place, with motel rooms rented next door AND designated drivers?? I’d serve. If I saw a non DD grabbing keys… I’d hop over the bar so fast my head would spin… but it sounded as though the family was doing the responsible thing. And like I said, if I were told of all the contingencies (ie: rooms, designated drivers etc..) I can’t say I’d cut anyone off. (my opinion as to whether or not the bar is liable).
BUT… with that said… in a setting like that- the bartender should’ve been fully aware of who was walking in and out of that bar. And if he/she saw this douche walk out with a set of keys in his hand- actions should’ve been taken to prevent it. He should’ve been STOPPED. I would go after the brother for tossing the keys before I’d going after the bar.
Thing that slays me… this was at a “bar and grill”. Why did this fool go to taco bell?
Grill=Food.
Makes no sense.
Keys were inside the truck. He used a keypad to get in.
That’s interesting – I wonder if it makes a difference, legally speaking.
I don’t know. I know his sister was supposed to be “watching” them too. She was also supposed to have his keys.
Where you there? Did you see all that happen!!!!!!!!!!!!! You need to keep your mouth shut,all of you,none of you where there.
Your son killed 5 people Clara, and no one had to be there to know it. It hasn’t gotten any easier since he wouldn’t plead guilty and still won’t accept his sentence. Your son isn’t even serving enough years equal to the combined ages of his victims–in your eyes apparently, those debts have all been repaid and washed clean by a simple apology. Is a year truly enough time to contemplate the killing of anyone, especially an 8 week old baby? Could anyone finish what needed to be suffered for the death of 5 in even 43 years?
So you must be Mama Gagnon. I believe it because your email and IP seem to suggest you are who you say you are. Was it you that spoiled Michael and taught him not to accept the consequences of his actions, or did Dad have a hand in it too. You’re right, none of us were there. I don’t have to be there to know that Mike blew more than twice the legal limit on the Breathalyzer. I can look at the pictures of the accident scene and know that he drove the wrong way on a limited access highway and slammed into the Griffin’s minivan head-on, tearing it opened and leaving victims strewn along the pavement. Even though I wasn’t a witness, Bethany, Jordan, Haley, Lacie and baby Vadie are all dead. They are dead because of the actions of your son Michael.
Now he has the nerve to whine about his sentence. He says 43 years is too long. Did you advise him to do this? A wiser parent would have known that he got off easy – that he deserved to spend the rest of his life in prison. He didn’t even have the courage and remorse to plead straight up guilty, using the coward plea of No Contest instead. The only remorse he has shown has been for himself, and now we know where he learned how to be so coldhearted, immature and self centered.
Well done Clara, well done.
I disagree with one thing you said there, Max. he doesn’t deserve life in prison. He DESERVES the death penalty. he actually deserves 5 death penalties… one for each life that he stole.
Yeah Mama – I said it! Your son is a stinking KILLER, a murderer. What he did was not an accident, it was as deliberate as if he shot a gun into a crowd of people, as Ferrets pointed out so clearly.
YOUR son is a scumball. And anyone who would defend such a scumball is just as bad.
I know your type, Mama. Let it be your family who falls victim to a drunk bastard like your son, and you would be screaming bloody murder for justice. In other words, you are a hypocrite, and a stupid one at that. You have no compassion for anyone except those unfortunate enough to have been born into your ignorant family.
So tell me Mama. What would you do if one of your kids killed another of your kids? Why, you would almost certainly have a stroke, huh? Your little pea brain would not be able to handle figuring which one to hate, would it?
Yeah hate. Because people who cling to their families no matter how rotten and disgusting they are, are almost always just full of hate. So feel free to let your hate eat you up inside. And prepare yourself for more, because hate begets hate.
I hope your son never gets a chance to walk among the good, decent non-murdering people in society again. 43 years? Not even a drop in the fucking bucket compared to what he stole.
Have a nice day!
Sorry Clara – I wasn’t there. However, I do know some of the Griffin/Burkman family members so I do know what I’m talking about. Besides, all of this is public knowledge. As for shutting up, NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!! I do NOT and NEVER have drank and drove. Things I’ll NEVER do!! Did Michael mean to do it?? I’m sure he didn’t but he needs to own up to what he did. When the holiday come I’m sure your there to see your son. What do the Griffin’s & Burkman’s get?? Now how fair is that??
Clara. Seriously, I’ve been reading interviews you give… it’s disgusting. Your son killed almost AN ENTIRE FAMILY including an infant, and you’ve done nothing but bitch and moan about him not deserving 43 years. The maximum sentence is 50 years. As someone who has lost family to a drunk driver, I think you and your son are the most disgusting VILE kind of people. I hope he spends the rest of his life rotting in jail thinking about the lives he took. You are an enabler, Clara. The worst kind of person. People like you and your son will never want to take responsibility for anything. You think a year in jail pays for what he did? The people who loved that family will be in hell every day of their lives. My family knows that pain, it NEVER GETS BETTER. An 8 week old baby… probably just learning how to smile, gone. Never had a chance to grow up and become an adult. Your son had that chance, and what did he do? Got fucking shitfaced and killed 5 people. By not accepting his sentence he’s spitting on those people, and their family members.
Moop – people drive drunk all the time. Unfortunately Micheal Gagnon killed 5 people. He was wrong and he is paying for it. You are attacking Mama because she is protecting her child. I hope that if you have children and they screw up no matter how bad you will stand behind them and support them. He made one bad decision. He was a good kid that made a very bad decision that will affect so many people, please have some mercy on him and his family they are trying to get through this the best they can. God said we should not judge others and we should forgive our enemies. This is between Michael’s family and Dan Griffin’s family. They have to live with this and all your negative thoughts are not good for either family.
Well hell then Sandy, with that logic let me drink an entire bottle of Bacardi 151, drive, hit yourself or one of your loved ones, and see how forgiving you will be. You people amaze me. You expect people to forgive, forgive, forgive, but if the above scenario happened, you would be screaming bloody mruder for me to be in jail and calling me a horrible person.
Hell, I drive around with a flask as it is. (Contrary to a previous post) I am just willing to admit it today. Ah, Tanqueray… But what does it matter if I run down a few Rich Folk in Newport, anyway?
Please don’t drive drunk.
Just please don’t do it. Do whatever you have to do to not be that person. It’s not worth it. It just isn’t.
Jason, I was kidding… I know, not funny, but I was kidding. I leave my car at my buddy’s place and walk around downtown Newport. All the bars are near eachother, so I have no worries. I don’t think I could even find the ignition after a few gin and tonics, anyway
Yeah. She prolly can’t drive sober anyway. Why on Earth would she try drunk? :-p
Can’t drive anything smaller than a tank sober, sweet-pea. lol I’m a mass-hole, can’t drive worth shit. But seriously, I would lose my Navy career if I drove drunk. I’d be demoted to E3 again and have to work my way back up.
This is for Tito and Moop:
I am not saying you should drink and drive. I am saying it happens all the time and it is not right. I do not drink and drive – I have a designated driver or I take a cab. I am not saying he shouldn’t be in jail. I am not saying he shouldn’t pay for his mistakes. I am saying that you are making judgments on how he was brought up and about his family and you have no right. You said to take my God speech and shove it but isn’t it God that make the chose who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell, not you.
And to add to the long list of things I say that make me sound like a pretentious ass: Sandy- It is actually the individual that makes the choice whether or not he/she goes to heaven or hell. God gave us all a choice. Heaven or hell. Granted He knows who will and who won’t choose Life, but the choice is still there.
I hate to get religious, because it brings down my happy sadism.
1.) I never told you to shove your God speech. But if you’re supporting someone who drinks and drives, you’re going against God seeing as how gluttony is a sin.
2.) Never said shit about his childhood. I don’t give a damn what his childhood was like. He did what he did because he is a selfish bastard with no self-control.
3.) If he was part of my family, I would be saying this all the same. I have an uncle in New York I haven’t spoke to in 9 years because he killed a man in a drug deal gone wrong. You don’t see me out to the media that covered it about how he deseves a second chance, now do you? He fucked up, and as far as I’m concerned, he is not family to me anymore. So I know someone who has killed someone under the influence. I am not sitting here bitching and moaning of how he is a “good person.” We have a saying (NC will know this one I’ll bet): “It takes one ‘O shit’ to erase 100 ‘Atta boys.’ “
Mistake 1: Driving Drunk
Mistake 2: Driving Stoned
Mistake 3: Belligerent at the scene
Mistake 4: Pleading not guilty
Mistake 5: Attempting to negotiate his trial
Mistake 6: Pleading No Contest instead of not guilty
Mistake 7: Appealing without showing true remorse
Whatever Sandy. You’re just as ridiculous as the Gagnon clan, and your rationale is so retarded I stopped reading after “People drive drunk all the time.” Take your God speech and shove it :)
WOW – I must be really evil!! My kids know if they drink and drive that I won’t tolerate it OR stand by them!!
BULL SHIT…You can’t know that until it happens and if you don’t your a horriable mother.
Tina, parents plan out their future choices. If my daughter grows up to be a coke-head, I will try to intervene, but if she refuses help, then I am done with her. If she kills someone in a drunk driving accident, I am not going to defend her actions, I will encourage her to take responsibility. Parents who deny their child’s actions and faults are enablers. They add to the problem. That’s what has been going on here with one “Clara”
It’s not BS. Green-Eyed One has it straight. She doesn’t seem stupid, she seems like a well-reasoned individual.
Nope Tina – I’m a responsible mother. My kids need to take responsibility for their own actions. It all needs to start at an early age. I have a teenager. I know he won’t be a saint and will probably do things I don’t really want to know about. Fortunately, he’s open with me. Funny thing is that he has already said if someone is drunk he will take the keys. He will always make sure someone IS the designated driver BEFORE they are in a bad situation. I think I’m doing a good job so I’ll give myself a pat on the back. Thanks NavyCop!!
When your daughter grows up and becomes an adult and starts making her own decisions, you have no control over her. You can fight with everything you have and if your daughter becomes a crack head you will find the most expensive rehab that you can find, but if she doesn’t want it what are you going to do? Just give up on her? Can you really do that? Yes, you TRY to make decisions for them, but sometimes it doesn’t go your way…. When your daughter is an adult then we’ll talk. You don’t know until your in this postion. When they are little you have all the control over them in the world…but man 16…17…their already in their frame of mind..it gets harder for the parent. As a parent, you will always do the best you can….I’m sorry, but I didn’t get a book when my kids were born…did you?
Actually, I do know, because that is the tack my parents took with me. They tried to help me as much as they could, but I was so pigheaded and strong-willed, I had to be completely broken before I asked for help. I learn from my own life about what I would do in the future. I will not spend money on my child to get her into rehab if she decides to become addicted to drugs. It is her choice and therefore her responsibility. I expet her to do the same thing as I have learned to do. Take responsibility for her OWN actions and not beg me to come to her rescue.
And yes, I did get a book. 2 in fact. “What to expect while you’re expecting” and “what to expect in the first seven years.” You didn’t get those?
A good or “true” parent will do everything out of love, yes. However, sometimes letting the wilfull child/adult child go their own way and releasing your control over them is the hardest act of love in parenthood.
Tina, I have noticed that you have somewhat changed in your viewpoint. I’m glad. You seemed a little rocky at first, but now I believe you to be honestly making an effort to get your point across in an intelligent manner.
Sandy. NORMAL people do not excuse the bad and criminal behavior of their loved ones. It’s called “hate the sin, love the sinner”. What would it take for me to cut off my child? I don’t know.
But I do know this – if she did what Mike the Murderer did, I would not be trying to get her out of it, no matter what. I would be heartbroken that her life was ruined by one crappy-ass decision she made, and I would be sad for myself. But not so sad that I would shift her responsibility or try to find a way for her to avoid paying the price.
The Gagnon family is chock full of selfish, ignorant, hypocritical people. Selfish. Self-absorbed. Egocentric. It’s all about THEM, with apparently little understanding of the rest of the world. As I said, if their loved one was the victim, they would be hollering for a lynch mob for the killer. This is where the ignorance and hypocrisy comes in. They can’t have it both ways. They can’t absolve all culpability to the victimizer when it’s one of their own and push all blame TO the victimizer when their family member is the victim.
There is little wonder that Mike did what he did. After all, Clara has no character, so how could she possibly instill it into her child? So, let’s ask Clara this – is she willing to trade places with Mike the Murderer? Will SHE go sit in jail for the next 43 years, in his place? After all – truth be told – if you want to go backwards to take the blame off of Mike, then his mother is almost certainly the place to look. I guaran-damn-tee you there is no way Mama would take his place. LOL.
you are something else sounds like you hit a soft spot there,must of had a bad relationship with mom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Too bad Me and Michal are very close!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You know nothing and I know you have no aadult kids,so who wants to lisen to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wrong, lol.
You know, the more I thought about this, the more funny it is. Clara just PROVED my point, didn’t she? She somehow took all of the criticism of her irresponsible parenting and thought it meant “she and Mike weren’t close”. LOL.
So, moron, here is where you are wrong:
A) I had a great relationship with my mom. I got mad at her when she made me fix my own messes, and when she made me stand alone rather than taking advantage of the things that the daughter of wealthy people could take advantage of. But that was when I was 10. By 16 or so, I understood responsibility and I knew that my decisions were mine, and if I screwed up, I would pay the piper. I was smart enough to not screw up too often. Lessons which your loser son was obviously never taught. Once I realized that she did what she did to HELP me, I respected her more than anyone will EVER respect you.
B) Ummm… yeah. You an Michael are close. So? That’s a big problem isn’t it Mommy? Because your grown son is still teething on your apron string. Did you deliberately keep him that way so you could keep him close to you? I bet you did. Because you sound emotionally unstable, like you need to have “someone” to love you. What better way than to create a child who never grows up? And how to keep them from growing up? Always fix every problem they encounter. That guarantees that they will always stay near, because otherwise they fall flat on their face. No wonder he was so full of rage. So full that as soon as he got alcohol in him, he lost what little control he might have had.
C) I know nothing? About what? I think we could have a battle of wits and you would be crying in the corner in about 12 seconds. Oh. Maybe you meant that I know nothing about yours and your murderer son’s relationship. I refer you to B) above. As you can see, I know a lot more than you think I do. In fact I know exponentially more about your relationship than even you do. All you know is that you and your son were “close”. I know how you made that happen. ROFL.
D) How, pray tell do you know I have no adult kids. Unlike YOU, my child has never been in the newspaper for slaughtering a family. While she has been in there for starring in productions, for honor roll and deans list, for winning oratorical contests and scholarships, none of that results in the same intense scrutiny as being a murdering pig. However, just to prove you wrong, I do in fact have an adult child.
Now, to be fair – here’s where you were correct:
E) I am indeed “something else”. And…
F) “sounds like you hit a soft spot there”. (sorry, I need to take a breath, I am laughing so hard). Are you aware that you just admitted that I pegged YOU? I guess you aren’t. Grammar doesn’t seem to be your strong point, though I am a loss to guess what is. (Maybe it’s your fierce unwarranted loyalty? hmmmm… who cares?). Anyway, dumbshit, I know I hit a sore spot of yours. I guess that anyone in your life with more than three braincells has been telling you this for years. But you ignored them, didn’t you? And now you have some stranger on the internet crawling into the story of your life telling you the same thing.
And to answer your last question (such as is it) people who want an honest assessment of a situation want to listen to me. People such as yourself, who are so full of shit that their eyes are brown, don’t want to hear it. The truth stings, doesn’t it?
Enjoy hearing your baby boy being raped in the ass like his piece of shit ass deserves. I hope you rot in hell too. Stay close with your son while he rots in prison. HAHAHA. Stupid bitch. I guess I would be mad and bitter too if I had raised a monster.
http://swampbubbles.com/bubble/troy-neff-show-media-exclusive-it%E2%80%99s-god%E2%80%99s-hands-michael-and-clara-gagnon-interview-updated-ne
Reaction to Clara’s Myspace statements (which she has now set to private probably because of all the backlash from people disgusted by her statements).
Time to shut YOUR mouth, Clara. Your son needs to be a big boy now and man up to what he did. Stop disrespecting the people who died and their families. 5 people are dead and it’s his fault, no one needed to be there to know that.
Seriously I don’t see what is so hard to understand here. Michael boy might have been a nice guy, gave money to charity, helped the homeless, been a great son, brother, whatever..doesn’t mean a damned thing against the fact that this was an adult who knew what the laws were and was responsible for his own actions. He chose to drink, he chose to drink in excess, he chose to drive and all of those choices led to the deaths of this family. No one made him drink, no one held a gun to his head and made him drive drunk. There is no evidence that he was unaware that drinking and driving could be deadly-hey we have all seen the MADD commercials and read the papers-doesn’t take a NASA engineer to know that driving when drunk has the potential to kill someone. He knowingly made his choices the same way a gang banger knowingly makes a choice when he sprays bullets into a crowd-maybe someone will die, maybe someone won’t. So now his family thinks its a bitch that he is going to go to jail-he’s a big boy who has to face up to his actions-do the crime then you got to do the time…. Here is what mommy and daddy should have done a long time ago: made him take responsibility for his actions. In high school a classmate was picked up for drinking underage and driving. His parents made him set in jail for several days before coming and getting him-showed him this was a serious adult crime-not a laugh about it at school joke..a few days in jail cured him of drinking and driving,
When I was growing up, my parents didn’t tolerate any bullshit. If I broke curfew, I couldn’t go out. If I racked up a huge phone bill, I had to work it off. If I copped an attitude, my mom drove me to school and picked me up every day, I wasn’t allowed to use the car. If I had driven drunk and killed a family????? Oh jeez, I don’t think they would have done much except support the remaining grieving family members and think to themselves “where did we go wrong.”
Luckily, the fact that my parents DIDN’T bail me out every time I fucked up means I grew up to be a responsible adult. An adult with boundaries, and a general awareness of the impact my actions have on other people. Something Michael Gagnon and his mommy here apparently never went over while he was growing up!
keeping talking,you know nothing about the families.Hope to God you never drive drunk and kill someone.Praying for all of you that have nothing better to do then talk about my familiy.God help you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can’t speak for eveyone else, but I know the regulars on here like Max, Moop, NavyCop and others including myself have something your son did not: Responsibility. I have been drunk on many occasions. I have also had the common sense to give up my keys when I knew I wouldn’t make it home. Your son should have done the same, but he did not. We won’t be going easy on him because instead of giving up his keys and staying put, he decided a damned bean burrito was worth put his life and others lives on the line. I think that the “pain” you’re going through is nothing compared to what son has put the Griffin family through. If you can’t handle that, you shouldn’t be reading this site because I highly doubt anyone will listen to you.
Awww, Tito thinks I’m responsible :). I agree with Moop, by the way. If you see the words “In Hell” just stay away. Obviously it is biased against idjits who commit heinous acts or just Felony Stupidity.
By the way, Moop, how was your commute this morning? There were two accidents on Route 2 and one on I 95 near Great Plain Ave.
NavyCop: I am actually in VA for a few weeks with the in-laws! I miss MA, hopefully will be back soon, I love Boston in the fall. I go see the mansions in Newport every year too :)
Let me know on myspace (if you have it) when you come down… perhaps I can get you on the base, if you like :) Ya know? I believe the Jazz Festival is coming, as is the Tall Ship Festival. The best view is from near the Naval War College… Look up the sharpie bandit.
Why would I ever drive drunk, Clara? I quit drinking when I was 23 years old. Never drove drunk all the many nights prior to that when I was so wasted I couldn’t even walk without tripping, and STILL had the foresight at 21 years old to give my keys to the designated driver before the first beer. Some people have responsibility, Clara. Your son was not one of those people. Now you come on here to a website called “PEOPLE YOU’LL SEE IN HELL” and expect sympathy?!?! What planet are you from?
BTW, I don’t smoke marijuana either, which cops say was found in your son’s system. Guess he thought having the munchies was a bigger priority than other people’s safety.
Actually, NavyCop and I are both mothers. Most people that frequent this site are. And being a “true” mother does not mean bitching about your child’s well deserved prison sentence and insulting the family that was killed.
Moop, full of brilliance yet again :) Talk to you all monday. TGIF!
And I am praying that you come to the realization that you can no longer defend your son. He is an adult and needs to take responsibility for his own actions.
A “true” mother will always stand by her child no matter what..I take it that your not a mother
I am in fact the proud parent of a 3 year old. I just understand that adults can not hide behind their parents and expect them to defend them from their own choices. Life is about choices, good or bad, we must live with the consequences. If a child turns out to be a bad apple who refuses to accept help, then like a rotting branch of a tree, they must be cut off until they revise their decision. A “true” mother will do what she can until there is nothing more she can do.
Perhaps a true mother would.
A good mother would help her son to take full responsibility for his actions.
A true human being, would have recognized that there was only one right thing to do here–confess, plead guilty and accept whatever punishment came.
Backing this appeal is evil.
There is an appeal that can be made that does not have to be so antagonistic.
Tina, you sound like a moron. seriously. All of your self-righteous bullshit about parenting is garbage. There is a huge hell of a lot of difference between loving your child and trying to get them off the hook for irresponsible things they do.
Good parents raise their children to be responsible. They teach them that sometimes bad shit happens, and they have to deal with it. They also teach their kids that the choices they make will impact the outcomes.
If, in spite of that instruction, a child chooses to make consistently bad decisions, even good parents may feel that they have no choice but to disown the kid. That’s not anything that anyone ever wants to contemplate, but just like we teach our kids, sometimes we have to do things we don’t want to.
When my daughter had problems through her childhood, I didn’t try to “fix” them. I talked through them with her, guided her towards making decisions on how to proceed and supported her as she attempted to either fix her problem, or at least minimize the damage. That’s called R-E-S-P-O-N-S-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y.
People like these Gagnons don’t teach their kids that. They go in and scream at the teacher if their kid gets in trouble. What does the kid learn? A) They can’t be blamed for anything and B) They don’t need to take responsibility for anything.
How can I say this about a family I don’t know? LOL. Because, ONLY someone who raised their kids like that would be taking Clara’s position today. Period. No one else would. Anyone with a SHRED of character and responsibility would STFU and be thankful that he only got 43 years, instead of 5 life sentences.
Green Eye…I give you credit also…Good for you and I’m an great mother also. I’ve raised 4 kids, me and my husband was very open with our children as well as them with us. My kids are adults raising their own children now. You and me as a parent can only do the best we can with our children, even when they are adults raising their own children. I’ve talked to my kids, does it mean their going to listen…man you pray that they do….but you can’t be around them 24/7. You can’t blame Clara for what Michael did. It’s not her fault. We as adults have to take the blame and Michael has.
I blame Clara for defending Michael’s actions.
I blame Clara for invoking God’s forgiveness when Michael won’t even admit the crime completely.
I blame Clara for blaming the judge for the harsh sentence, when it was Michael and Rich Sanders who antagonized the judge in this case.
I blame Clara for claiming that this case was somehow deserving of a lighter sentence.
In short, I blame Clara for what Clara has done.
I blame Michael for what Michael has done.
I blame myself for what I have done.
I blame you for failing to see that Clara has done wrong, and Michael currently deserves much more than 43 years in prison.
Clara has done no wrong and I guess that we have to agree to disagree on this factor. Your not going to change my mind and I’m not going to change yours.
Do you ever plan for tomorrow?
Do you set aside a little bit of money for what might be possible?
Do you ever plan for the worst?
Do you know what you would do if 3 of your 4 children were killed by one man and the last child remaining would require your care for the rest of her life?
Do you have any way to connect to that?
Do you think you might just blame that man for what he did to your babies, forever?
You’d probably rather stab yourself in the belly than witness anything like that. You’d cut out your own heart for your children I imagine, but could you turn those thoughts around?
What if it was one of your children who killed the other three?
Could you stomach that? Could you stand by that last child, even if he was a man, making a man’s decision to kill those children? His brothers and sisters?
This is a process of relationships. Start with the worst thing you could possibly imagine and relate it bit by bit, and then realize that if you simply cast Michael Gagnon on the fire, and make sure that more and more people know the horrible things he did to kill those babies, that there might be a way to save one other person from having to have their children maimed and murdered. It’s a process of thinking about your children with their neck and skull shattered in their car seat, at 8 weeks old, and knowing that it could have been all of them. There was nothing that could stop him but a reasonable fear in Michael Gagnon’s heart to treat alcohol, pot and his brother’s truck like they were the bullets loaded into a gun, he had his finger on the trigger of.
get a life !!!!!!!!!!!!! Iam reporting this site~~~~~~~~~~~~
I would tell YOU to get a life, but you still have one. Unlike the FIVE INNOCENT PEOPLE YOUR SON MURDERED!!
Keep crying for your son, Lady, and keep ignoring those 5 murder victims. You are sealing your karma. Have a nice day.
Better than my response. I was almost down to just hurling lolcats.
No, I wasn’t, but it was a fitting one I felt.
Bah, curse you image tag filtering.
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/funny-pictures-lightbulb-cat-get-a-life.jpg
Okay, Mayor West. Break out the Cat Launcher! “In you go, Paul. Paul! That’s not a cat name, that’s a person’s name! A person’s name!”
What will you gain in reporting a public forum? Not your son’s freedom. He forfeited that when he made the concious decision to drive drunk and crash into an innocent family. Even in the very unlikely event that this site closed down, I am sure three or four more would pop up. I will say what I have already said many times, Please, for your own sanity and the prevention of your own heartache, don’t look up your son online. Don’t click on anything that remotely sounds like “People You’ll See In Hell.” It’s not good for your mind to constantly and fruitlessly defend your son against people who have formed their own opinions of his reckless acts and attitude. Step back from the situation. Take on an openminded stance. You can not hold on to your son forever. You have to let go and let him be the man he has decided to be. You’ve done all you can, you are just hurting yourself with your continued efforts. Michael has been found guilty both in the court of law and in the court of public opinion. He has to take responsibility for his OWN actions. You can not shield him anymore. I’m sorry.
Navy – it’s admirable for you to try, but you just wasted a few minutes of your life. Clara can’t understand you. She lives in her own little self-absorbed sphere. If it ain’t got her DNA in it, it don’t matter a bit.
What really kills me is that you find this attitude only among the most ignorant people, be they white or black. Just watch Maury sometime (my daughter and I watch it maybe once every 2 months, just to say “DAMN, there are some screwed up people in this world.) Because of some genetic accident, these morons act as if the crotchfruit they bare is somehow superior. Never mind that the DNA donators are retarded and/or inbred losers.
*Sigh* I know. But I just have the feeling that I need to try to help her see the light anyway. At least Tina was somewhat swayed. :)
Thanks Tina. I don’t hold Clara responsible for what Michael did. She just needs to get off her soap box and quit defending him. What happened happened and nothing can change that. He needs to quit whining about the time he received. Michael needs to put his big boy panties on, suck it up and take it. He did it and that’s that. If my son or daughter were in this situation, I’d be devastated!! If they were on this website, I sure wouldn’t be here defending them. I would be there for them but telling them that they need to do what’s right and deal with it. Take the punishment your going to get no matter what it is. I’m sure Michael is living in hell inside that cell. But does he deserve it?? Yes and then some.
I knew Bethany from a group. When I turned on my computer that next morning I got the horrific news. It was such a state of shock. Even seeing it all over the news was just as shocking. It settled in within a couple of days. I was sad for the longest time and my kids wanted to know why. I showed them why. They were curious so I showed them more. They then understood. Reasons why I “preach” it to them all the time. I don’t want them to end up this way. I want them educated. The earlier you can educate, the better. Like I said before, I know there will be things they do that I don’t really want to know about. At least we are open with each other so there is a better chance that I can help them BEFORE something happens.
I’m with ya Green Eye….preach, preach preach as much as you can about this. I don’t care how young they are, you have to tell your kids and actually show your kids what can happen. Kids/teenagers think it’s not going to happen to them. It use to make me so mad when my kids would have this attitude…
Your right..what’s happened has happened, but Clara is only doing what she feels she needs to do. I don’t want to say that she’s defending him, but she feels she needs to protect him, a bear protecting her cub. Clara is VERY devastated by this.
The next day after the accident, we also heard on the news, it killed all of us. The fund raiser here in Michigan was started by a family member of Michaels. I can’t feel the pain of the loss of a loved one by a drunk driver because it never happened to me, just like you can’t feel the pain of what we are going thru because your not going thru what Clara and her family is going thru.
I personally could care less what Clara is going through. Her son is alive. She can visit him and see him if she wants to. He isn’t gone forever. 4 other of her family members aren’t gone forever because of someone else’s stupid horrible decision. Clara has been very outspoken about her son’s sentencing, basically saying that the victim’s lives were only worth a half assed apology.
““She couldnt handle the media,so she threw the book at Michael,so another Judge would have to deal with it.Its about the almighty dollar.I followed so many other cases of drinking and driving,and there is no way my son deserves 43 yrs.
My daughter Theresa layed on the floor wailing for her brother, a family member or friend walked by and lifted her leg and clapped her hands,and smiled.No amount of money can bring back those lives,or the pain,but, Dan grifffin,said he had no money to pay for medical bills.He got 600,000 from my and Michaels insurance company.And his last statement was that he had to start all over,what a new wife!!!!!!!!!!!”
Direct quote from Clara herself. Tell me how does she sound “devestated”? Disgraceful.
That is disgraceful. It is an indicator of a tragically self-absorbed person. She has no ability to see beyond her own tiny sphere of understanding. Zero.
He daughter being upset was far more important than the 5 lives her son snuffed out. Seriously. Can you even IMAGINE that? It’s mind-numbing. FIVE people are dead, and she is worried about her daughter being sad?
What business of hers is it what Dan is going to do from here on? What business of hers is it what he did with the money that somehow is supposed to compensate him for the destruction of his life? NONE! If it was not for her murdering son, Dan would be blissfully NOT having to rebuild his life. And I guarantee you he would not have traded his family for that money. How DARE she even think about it?
I would slap her across the face right now if I could.
I know she’s trying to protect him but he’s a big boy. He needs to defend himself. Really, what is there to defend? He was wrong for what he did. It’s about time a state stood up for a victim of a drunk driver than give that drunk a slap on the wrist. Here in my state they are finally cracking down on drunks. Will it ever be enough?? Probably not but if enough people write to the appropriate parties and lobby for the correct bills more will get done.
Your right, I have no idea what they are going thru and I hope I’m never in any of their shoes. I have talked to Clara before and tried to help her in some way or at least we tried to figure out what we could do for her. Unfortunately, that site no longer exists.
I’m sure she is devastated. Like I said before, I’d be devastated as well. She has to understand that the ones who are here defending the Griffin’s and Burkman’s are devastated as well. When she lashes out at us we are only going to return the favor.
I’m guessing that you are either family or a close friend of theirs.
oh Jason…Are you a parent?
No
How many of your friends did Michael Murder because he wanted to smoke weed and drink himself into oblivion?
I guess you just can’t understand then.
You have to be a human being to understand something like that.
Why are you upset with me? Michael didn’t kill any of my freinds. I feel horriable about what has happened. I can’t feel what your feeling becuase I have never been in your situation, like you can’t feel what we feel because you never been in our situation. Just because we are not feeling the same way doesn’t mean I’m less human than you.
Because you think defending him helps. It doesn’t. Michael killed 5 people. They never, ever get to come back. The only cause his life can possibly serve that can even touch on that failing is to in some way try and prevent this from ever happening again. 10 years, 20 years, 100 years? What’s enough to scare some sense into the next drunk or pot head who takes a bender down the wrong way of a highway and kills a few people?
Death might work. Think about what happens if Michael gets his sentence reduced. If he gets off for half of that time, and the precedent leads to a weakening of the sentences and sentencing guidelines. Eventually, some drunk gets out after only a couple of years for killing someone, and they get in another car and they kill someone else. I hate you because you can’t see 2 years, 2 months, 2 days or even 2 seconds in front of your face at the consequences of this appeal if it should succeed. There’s a way to make it better. To make it an actual admission. To make it less antagonistic to the family who feel no real victory in anything less than Michael’s death, so will feel even greater defeat at a lessening of his sentence.
There were cold blooded killers in my family tree. They’re dead now. They were expelled from the family. Their memory was trashed by their loved ones–with cause. They deserve nothing less than to be washed away with the acid and bile they left behind.
The quote is “time heals all wounds,” but another proverb is “…only in the death of all witnesses, is memory truly satisfied.”
All that aside, the simple fact is that asking for less time is like saying those 5 lives were worth less.
Jason says:
July 24, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Perhaps a true mother would.
I am a true mother…so is Clara…so is NavyCop….
A good mother would help her son to take full responsibility for his actions.
Michael has taken full responibiitly for his actions, do you need this in writing by him personaly?
A true human being, would have recognized that there was only one right thing to do here–confess, plead guilty and accept whatever punishment came.
This was at the choice of his attorney.
Backing this appeal is evil.
I don’t think so. Nothing evil here.
There is an appeal that can be made that does not have to be so antagonistic.
do you have a copy of his appeal?
He plead no contest. Look up the term in a legal dictionary.
His responsibility, as determined by the courts when he failed to plead guilty, was 43 years.
He won’t take “responsibility” for that.
It was under the advice of his attorney. The attorney did not make the decision for him.
He’s challenging the constitutionality of the judge’s sentencing.
What state did he commit this crime in again? Oh right, Ohio. Who sets the sentencing guidelines in Ohio? Oh right, the representatives of Ohio’s population through an election process. Why did they stipulate the sentencing guidelines to be so harsh for convicted DUI murderers? Oh right, because they kept on happening. They just kept on drinking and driving even after they were convicted, served their time, and came right back out of jail and did it again. Look up the minutes from the review of the bill that covered Michael’s sentencing guidelines. They covered the why of this, and they covered the constitutional nature of this.
Jason, calm down. I’m not here to argue with you about the laws. Michael has the right to an appeal and he’s going to do it. I’m not defending him. But he did not, unlike your family go out and attentionaly kill them. His attorney…well that’s another Oprah show. Michael made decisions based on his attorney’s suggestions. Michael has taken responsibility for his actions, like I said do you want it in his hand writing?
I’m here to shout down with reason, anything that is unreasonable.
A right is something you are born with. Exercising that right is a choice. Michael is choosing to pursue this appeal. It calls into question his choices almost as much as 5 people dead on the road or choosing to plead no contest.
Then why did you answer Clara’s call? Why did you come here to defend him? To defend Clara’s defense of him?
A great-great grandfather of mine chose to kill his son’s murderer because his son’s murderer got off because his uncle was the Sheriff. It was gutter justice, and I reject that sort of justice.
Michael made all of the choices that night. He made the only choices that mattered.
And I called it. Right here I called it, but the stupid people who came here from the Gagnon family rejected it. They rejected every word because they wanted him out in the shortest amount of time. There was one way to handle this and salvage Michael, if that was the damn goal. He needed to look at the evidence himself. Realize that from his first drink he was fully responsible for his actions, and that the only thing an honorable person could do was plead guilty to all charges. Can you see what a difference it would have made?
He made his decisions in ignorance and fear, and in the fleeting hope that what the attorney was selling was something like freedom from responsibility. Go ahead, try and tell me I’m wrong on that one.
I could be vindictive and say written in blood, but no, I don’t think of Michael as a human being anymore. He chose this. He chose every single misstep. He had so many chances, not to fix this, but to figure this out.
Please don’t ever include me in a group with yourself again. *Shudders* I feel dirty now. I need a shower.
Michael G should be greatful he is not in China-MSN reported a Chinese court sentenced a man to DEATH for drunk driving
BEIJING – A court in southwestern China has sentenced a man to death for a drunken-driving accident that killed four people in what’s being called a first for the country.
So how about that for a sentence for murding people by driving drunk-and no I actually do not drink so I do not drink and drive
This is one self absorbed family here isn’t it??? I do have to wonder why it has never occurred to this group that you can have a get together and family party without serving enough booze to float a ship, and another thing that Mike’s family has conveniently forgotten-not only did his actions harm this family but I am sure the people who stopped to help, the first responders, the ER room people were also traumatized by seeing these mangled small children brought in. I don’t care how much training you have seeing an accident like this would affect you forever. I have a feeling with this family unit it is always someone else who caused the problem
You get fired? it was the boss who was a jerk, get a bad grade? the teacher hated you, get cut from the team? the coach hated you. Get dumped? your girlfriend was a whore, get thrown in jail cause you caused a wreck? the judge was unfair. They appear to have a basic lack of knowledge of responsibility and cause and effect. You cause people to die the effect is you go to jail.
I hate this bastard and his whole goddamn family. Man.
Tina and Sandy forget it !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just report this site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The only problem with that is: Freedom of Speech.
Report it to who?
The FCC *snicker*
Yeah, I wonder… report it to who? Isn’t all the info on here public records? I mean Clara chose to speak out against her son’s sentence on her myspace, that’s freedom of speech. Guess what, same thing applies to this website. No one has threatened her, she chooses to come here and instigate. It is her constitutionally protected right to do so. Kind of like how it’s MY right to express how pissed off I am that her son killed 5 innocent people while he was on a bender. Funny how that whole freedom of speech thing works, eh? Anyone at any time can look up his court records, or simply Google his name and find out what he did. Trying to report this site will most likely get her no further than trying to stop 2 people from discussing this case over a morning latte.
There’s a qualifier there. This website is kinda like Admin’s backyard, or more specifically, the front end of his shop. We all come over and talk, and comment, but the right to free speech comes to a limit that is Admin’s right to say “get off my lawn,” or “get out of my store!”
He has advertising on the site, and rattles a tip cup, and there are operating expenses incurred by our visit. Interruptions or interference with his ability to collect ad revenue or the get donations into his cup, are actually illegal. Admin or his designates, posting articles on the site? Not illegal. People Admin or his admins hasn’t banned (including Clara, she’s not banned) commenting isn’t wrong, but Admin and his designates can choose to limit traffic or remove anyone they want from that welcoming policy.
Yes, I understand how that all works :) Luckily admin here is good about allowing for open discussion from all sides of the argument.
“But the FCC won’t let me be, or let me be me…..”
She’s coming to this site, looking to cause trouble, and she thinks she’s the one who can report the site.
That’s rich.
Jason, I grovel in worship before your intellect and wit. *Prostrate in humility*
This woman particularly is worthy of all the disgust and disdain we can muster.
I would have had nothing but the deepest sympathy for her for raising such an irresponsible piece of garbage son, until she began defending him. Not only defending him, but EXCUSING him. And rubbing salt into the wounds of the people who he destroyed. That is beyond despicable.
Clara is not worthy of cleaning the septic tanks of the Griffins/Burkmans with her personal toothbrush. She is lower than the shit that eats pond scum, in not just my, but anyone with even an ounce of compassion’s opinion. I would send her to hell along with her scummy son, if I didn’t think they already have expedited tickets.
Um….tell us how you really feel, Mazzi.
Sorry TBS… I usually reserve my disgust for the actual perps, but this “mother” is beyond contemptible. I think I almost dislike her more than her son, if that’s possible. You should have seen what I was GONNA write about her. I held my tongue =)
amen, Mazzi.
Thanks Mazzi,
I’d feel sorry for her, if I didn’t know that her rage and her pride weren’t the things keeping her from doing the only thing that could ever really help her son.
More than a year ago, she ranted that she was going to make sure the judge saw this site and all of the posts. She also tried to defend Michael by saying he couldn’t remember any of it.
Some family member said:
“he won’t get the maximum. the most he’ll get is 25 years.”
And they wouldn’t listen then either.
They hired a negotiator in a case with 5 deaths.
They should have been leveled with, that there was no way out. Oh wait, people all over the place were placing the level out in front of them, but they refused to be bothered with a realization like that. Even after the sentence came back, they blamed anyone but Michael.
What she could have done, and didn’t do, for her son was long, long, long before last year, Jason. But I get your point.
At the very least, once her son slaughtered the innocent five, she should have said “son, you fucked up – bigtime. Now be a man and face it.” Standing stoically behind him because he is her son would have been fine. I am sure she (and others) know a side of him that is not a heartless killer. But that part of him is unrelated to the fact that five people are dead. She should have STFU. No one else cares about the non-murdering side of him.
Instead, she tried to weasel and connive a way to get him off the hook. I am glad it blew up in her face. I hope her son blames her, because I get the distinct impression that this family is all about blame, and hasn’t got a fucking clue about responsibility.
I wanted him dead Mazzi. I’m not proud of it, but now I just want the laws changed because of this, so the next monster, whether he’s blood of mine or blood of someone else, gets a needle for it.
You have nothing to feel ashamed of Jason. I would have wanted him dead too, if I were you. That’s why we have courtrooms and judges. The family and close friends are expected to be angry on a personal level, and they should not be allowed to extract justice without more objective intervention.
That said, pushing for harsher penalties by changing the laws is the more reasoned way that you can get justice for your loved ones. Taking a Louisville Slugger to Mike would have only made you feel better temporarily, and would have done nothing for the memory of the victims. This way, you can try to see that they didn’t die in vain.
Clara just proved my point about how everything is never her son’s fault-now it is our fault for discussing the case, the FCC’s fault for allowing any criticism of her son’s decision to drink and drive-the US Constitution is at fault because it gives us the freedom of speech to have an opinion different than hers-but none of it is the “dear boy”s fault now is it-How convenient to forget that if Jr had not made the totally asinine decision to drink and drisuit is itve and kill a family we would not be discussing him or any of the family but logic apparently is not this family’s forte
All I have to say is WOW some of you people must really have a life when you are constantly posting on her about other people! as all of you have the right to fredom of speech so does michaels family!!
I have no excuse. Oh wait, yes I do, I’m wasting company time. I get paid $14 an hour to sit on my ass and watch surveilance cameras, and half of them don’t work. Makes my eight hours fly by!
I write software for a living. It may seem like a glamorous profession, but about 80% of it is waiting for something to test correctly or bring back a result.
I am a student on summer break. And I manage to keep my own website, comment on 3-4 message boards, clean my house, whip up gourmet meals, take care of all my necessary business, read books and play an online game too. Multi-tasking rocks. So do speed-reading and typing skills.
Why is it whenever people don’t like what others have to say, they accuse them of having no life? Is there a little projection going on there? LOL.
Anyway, Amanda Holier-than-Thou, I wouldn’t trade my life for anyone’s. Especially not someone who is associated with someone like Mike Gagnon. I am picky about my relationships, and he (and his selfish relatives) would never make the cut. ROFL.
you never knew michael so how could you even say that
He killed 5 people.
Do you think you could be friends with Jeffrey Dahlmer or Ted Bundy?
You didn’t know them.
Who are you to judge serial killers you’ve never even met? /sarcasm
Go ahead, miss the whole damn point again and someone else you know will drink, drive, and kill someone.
You are a selfish part of this problem.
Because, Amanda, peoples ACTIONS speak louder than words.
I suspect this will ::whoosh:: over your head, but the best definition for “character” I ever read was “it’s how you act when no one is watching”. I expect the people who I voluntarily surround myself with to have character and integrity. And part of that is accepting responsibility for the bad things you do.
It’s not so much that he murdered 5 people. It was a HORRIBLE choice that he made, but if he was seriously contrite about it, if he learned from it, if he accepted responsibility and accepted his punishment for it, that would possibly be different, but right off the top, he has all those strikes against him.
So, no – I don’t need to physically meet Gagnon to know that he would never be allowed in my life. His record speaks for him.
Oh yeah, and it keeps me from going postal and shooting everything/everyone up >:)
HMM, didn’t see anyone arguing his family had no right to freedom of speech and didn’t see anyone questioning his family’s employment when they posted …wow, the best defensive argument is we have no life? Oh wait, we do have a life because we didn’t kill anyone through drinking and driving so we don’t have to spend basically the rest of our lives in prison.
It’s not worth it on this post to argue the “Get a Life” deal with them any more. They know who I am(in real life), I know who they are(in real life), and this is their last refuge.
really jason i find it funny that you try to say that you know me, but no you don’t
Glad you’re laughing at something other than dead babies.
and by the way i wasn’t asking what people did for a leaving either
i meant living!
You mean like a wife, a job, volunteer work, social outings, friends, family?
You know, a life. Like getting a life.
When the fun stops, some people go back to work, even on a Friday night.
About this lawsuite stuff… if you open a bar you are going to get sued, that is a fact of life- just like if you open a medical practice.
It is all about insurance. The incompetants get sued out of the industry because they can no longer afford insurance due to the lawsuites, in theory. The reality is some other irresponible will go for i liquor license.
I don’t feel sorry for a bar owner losing his business or house, it is just part of the process and the risk that a responisible owner will know is there when they decide to get into the industry.
My initial reaction is to put the blame where it belongs – on the person who committed the crime. Yes, perhaps the bar provided him with alcohol, but he made the choice to keep drinking, And then the choice to drive. No one put a gun to Gagnon’s had and forced him to drink, and suing the bar only serves to shift the blame off of the culprit, and put it into someone else’s lap. That just doesn’t sit well with me.
Unlike a medical practice, where the doctor actually DOES have some control over the patient, a bar only provides the means for someone to make bad choices. The same as a liquor store.
Let me tell you an interesting story I read about while I was visiting Canada. Gambling in casinos is legal in many areas of Canada (in fact, we usually hit the casinos ourselves, just for fun). So, a bunch of people who have no self-control (calling themselves “gambling addicts”) threatened the casinos. The casinos responded by creating a list where these “addicts” could voluntarily register, and then be refused entrance to the casinos. So the addict goes in, shows their ID and the casino says “no way Jose”, right?
Well, it seems that several of these “addicts” have taken to using false ID’s and disguises to get around the list that they put themselves on, so that they could get in and gamble away their savings. NOW they are suing the casinos for not seeing through their disguises and fake ID’s, and “allowing” them in. Hello? How is this the fault of the casinos?
The casinos unfortunately accepted some accountability by creating this list (which honestly was not their responsibility). But still, this is almost like blaming the bank for allowing a criminal in to rob it, lol.
I see the bar in a similar position. They did not strap him to a table and pour booze down his throat. They provided a product which Gagnon chose to use in excess. A product which if “I” used in excess would cause me to curl up and fall asleep, and which if you used to excess might make you stagger outside and puke, or whatever. They had no ability to look into the future and see how this guy would react to using the product in excess. So how can they be accountable for HIS actions?
(Note: this ignores the fact that this specific bar may have been engaging in other illegal practices. Those practices in fact COULD have contributed to this particular case. I am speaking in generalities here, lol).
There are still Gagnon supporters showing up? For crying out loud. You people are worse than cockroaches.
Apparently we just don’t understand how harsh the judge was and how mean we are all being to poor picked on Mike…I mean, he only chose to drink and drive knowing his actions had the potential to harm someone and due to his actions killed a family=can’t understand why the judge was so harsh!!
WHATEVER!
These assholes don’t think about anyone but themselves. It is okay to be sad that your son is in jail, it is not okay to act like he does not deserve to be there. I wonder how this “mother” would feel if someone wiped out her entire family. Would she think they only deserve a couple of years? Doubt it.
Yeah, they are like cockroaches. They remind me of serial killer groupies.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/s_k_groupies/4.html
Something very similar happened about 10 years ago in my hometown of Kingston, Ontario (Canada). A wealthy couple were indulging in one of their usual Drink n’ Dine’s at their favourite restaurant, Ramekins. After dinner was over, they piled into their car, and drove away. Before making it home, they veered off the road, smashed through the living room of a house, and in doing so, took the life of a kindly, old man. Ironically enough, the drunken husband and wife team owned one of the largest funeral homes in the city.
The management of the restaurant lost it’s liquor license for a time, as it was decided that they had turned a blind eye as their best customers staggered out the front door and strapped themselves into their killing machine on wheels.
Sad, sad, sad.
u people are really arguing over who they’re suing. why don’t you put aside your beliefs about lawsuits & remember a 2 month old baby was KILLED in this crash. people make me sick.
How sad :(
Does anyone know that (suposedly) Gagnon went and passed out in the truck, then woke up and was (suposedly) still asleep and drove to Taco Bell. That’s what his dad said on a radio interview. When his brother went outside to check on him he was gone and didn’t know what to do. I just wish the cops would have been quicker at getting to Taco Bell that night….or that he would have drove off the side of the bridge instead of running into the Griffin family.
And Mazi, I agree with everything you have posted. You are a well spoken well educated person….good for you!-)
One more thing, his dad said that he would always sleep walk alot. So I guess that is the family’s excuse for the son killing those little children and their mother/step-mother.
He talked and interacted with the Taco Bell employees, claiming he wanted a Mexican Fiesta, something not available on the menu. He was aware, but impaired and not sleep walking. If they want an excuse, perhaps they should blame the marijuana he’d just smoked and the alcohol and the people who helped him to put it inside of him. That said, only one person was responsible for the level and degree of his intoxication. His name is Michael Gagnon.
I didnt know I had to go in detail (you must be a blonde) NOBODY WAS AROUND !!!! HE SLIPPED OFF!! Next time I will display a reinactment video for those of you who cant understand, or read.
NOBODY WAS AROUND!
His family let him wander off alone, drunk and on drugs? Are you kidding me? That’s really good. What an awesome family of intelligent, mature, caring individuals.
HE SLIPPED OFF!
Everyone else must’ve been way more wasted than he was to allow that to happen. Gee, I really wish my family was that cool. To think, we wasted all that time bbq’ing and tossing frisbees around when we could have been getting completely bombed together! What WERE we thinking?
Shameful. Just… shameful.
Agreed, but did you know a good amount of their family members have served or serve in the military ? Some of which are over there protecting US as we speak ? ( They’re not all bad people is my point)This is why I say LEAVE the family out of it. He did what he did, your right. They have nothing to do with it. YOUR wrong , nobody put the keys in his hand. He came up missing, a call was made to his cell phone, he answered and said he had left. But to come on this forum and to put the whole family down doesn’t make it right.
I couldn’t care less if he was related to the freakin’ Pope. Being in the military doesn’t exempt you from consequences. It doesn’t make you more forgivable. Are people in the military somehow above reproach? There are plenty of bad people in the military, even though they try to teach you to be responsible for your actions. Seems that lesson was lost on at least one member of the family, and that loss is being reinforced by the rest of them.
No one is all evil or all good. It’s just that some people let their personal evil take a little too much control sometimes and that’s when bad things happen. An entire family of these people… I’d say ‘imagine the consequences!’, but we don’t have to now, do we?
Yet another relative of Michael Gagnon who doesn’t get it.
1st read all of Matthew before you try to misquote the Judge not lest ye also be judged passage. Picking and choosing from the bible is a sin regardless of the denomination of Christianity you choose.
With that “hypocrisy” in mind remember:
“A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.”
2. Michael Gagnon should be dead. He should have killed himself rather than peel out of the Taco Bell running from the cops. The keys shouldn’t have been in the glove box. Michael shouldn’t have been smoking marijuana at the party. Michael shouldn’t have had so much to drink. There are all of these should and shouldn’t words involved here, but there’s a global set. This shouldn’t ever happen again and those responsible should confess and move on. Those who would defend Michael, should set that defense aside, and let him take responsibility for his crimes like a man. From that worthless letter, to Clara’s blog and radio comments, it just goes on and on. It invites the next drunk driver who kills someone to do the same. This isn’t the first time the family of a drunk driving murderer has come to his defense or asked the public to “judge not…” The other families who handled it like yours were just as stupid and just as ignorant.
3. If your intention is to distance yourselves from the stupidity of your drug dealing, alcoholic, drunk driving, murdering relatives, then stop defending them. Be yourself and only yourself and cast them in the fire where the fruit of their trees so richly determined their fate.
4. Learn to type in the English language. Learn to speak in the English language.
“Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life…”
–Mr Hoover, Animal House
Its a known fact you can’t win against ,1.o.t.p.w.s.a.d.o.t.c. (One of those people who spend all day on the computer). Please focus all your typing angst on world hunger,or those 150 cats you have lodged your 500 square foot shack. You dont know a damn thing about the family, anybody can make things up on here about their family. Most of the comments are made up, except for the obvious. You have painted an absurd picture that makes it look like the whole family (including his 80 year old grandparents) said Go ahead !!! Get in that truck and drink and drive !! , its absolutely crazy.
The whole family DID say, by their actions, “go ahead! Get in that truck and drink and drive!” I agree. It is absolutely crazy of them. They condone his actions even now by defending him, calling what he did an ‘accident’, a ‘mistake’, etc. and supporting him in his denial of guilt by standing by his side while he appeals. That makes them just as guilty and just as worthy of derision.
If my brother did what Michael did, I’d be there for him but not like Michaels family is. I wouldn’t condone what he did by turning a blind eye as he tried to slither out of the consequences. I’d help to strengthen him by helping him to accept the consequences of his actions. This family of enablers is disgusting.
As to the rest of your post, it’s simply not worth a response.
I am a relative of the defendant. I was not at the party and DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT ( I had to say this a lot) agree with the drinking that went on. Yes, Michael is RESPONSIBLE and he is paying the price and will for the rest of his life.
The thing that is hurtful though is that people are twisting the story saying the whole family is bad and that we are all some sort of Jerry Springer type of people. Some of you are making it out like the whole family is a bunch of drug dealers that also get drunk everyday. This is far from the truth. We are all our own individuals.
I will tell you that the sadness and mourning has not gone away from this tragic, tragic event ( I don’t even know if that even BEGINS to describe it) in our family, nor will it ever go away. We will all never feel the same. I do not point fingers at anyone because I believe there is a higher power that judges all of us, so I am not to condemn anyone.
My heart is in deep pain for those sweet little children and I will always always think of them. For the longest time I have went in grocery stores and looked at babies and little girls and saw them in the children that were still alive. They are real to me and they are important to me.
So please, stop painting this horrible picture of us.
Birds29, I am sorry you’re going through this. You appear to have your head screwed on straight, which is more than can be said for the rest of this group.
Since you know these people, I’m going to ask some obvious questions: Why can’t the people in your family who are supporting Michael and “being there for him” during his appeal see that they’re making the whole thing worse? Why aren’t they going to the mat for those sweet little children by convincing Michael to stand up like a man and take some responsibility for his actions? The longer he denies his guilt by denying his punishment, the more he drags the pain out for everyone involved. How can anyone in his family or any of his friends support him in this?
And how in the world can any of you justify feeling even the slightest bit of anger or resentment towards anyone for calling you out on it?
VCBecky, I completely understand where you are coming from. Yes, he’s an adult… but.. They know he did a horrible thing & I firmly believe they are taking the approach of not wanting him to go through this alone. How can anyone ask a mother to let her son rot in prison? A child that is so much a part of her that she probably thinks of everyday of her life and also wishes she could change the past. Their love for him is so selfless and forgiving. You’re going to argue this I know and you have the right, but they just don’t want to let him go.
This is honestly not my place to say anything about. It is a sensitive subject and has been hurting my family for a long time. I understand your questions and your “tough love” approach, but choose not to comment on here anymore because this is very sad for me.
Birdie, their love is not selfless. It is very, very selfish. Love isn’t love without honesty.
I can easily ask a mother to let their son rot in prison when their son murders a family. Plenty of unfortunate mothers do, in fact. If I murdered someone, you can be damned sure my family would lovingly but firmly be the first in line urging me to accept responsibility for my actions. My mother would be the first of them. By supporting me in denial and appeals, they’d be telling me on some level that my actions are o.k. and forgivable. Love isn’t love without honesty.
Again , all 100 family members aren’t idiots like you think they are. Your making the WHOLE family out to be a**holes. But your input doesn’t matter anyway.
If my input doesn’t matter to you, why do you care that I have any?
This is my first time on this site, your the first who responded. At first I was speaking to everyone with negative comments towards the family (that weren’t even there) and are getting slammed. Thats the point Im trying to make, im not saying hes not guilty, its open and shut on what happened.
Is the entire family unit urging him to take responsibility and accept the consequences of his actions, or are some of them still standing by him and supporting him in his appeal?
If your family isn’t polarized by this event, you’re all culpable after the fact, if not before it. Those of you who support him – culpable. Those of you who don’t support him but say and/or do nothing – culpable. Those of you who are vocally trying to convince him to be responsible and are trying to convince those who support his appeal that they’re wrong – do you even exist?
This is all private info to be kept within the family, something not to be posted on a website comment box. Im done.
Indeed.
So what is private family info not to be commented on? The public records seem quite clear on what happened and the public records will detail the current lawsuit against the family and bar so what is there left to keep quiet about? This family is so hostile and defensive, apparently no one has the right to free speech when it concerns them. Whatever angst they are going through, I would guarantee its a hell of a lot less than the survivors of the wreck are going through.
The full contents of the appeal is coming…. oh yes…. that’s a good piece to put up.
UPDATE: Michael Gagnon’s appeal has been denied on all coounts, the sentence is sustained.
Due in large part to the weakness of the full appeal, Gagnon’s appeal request has been denied.
Excellent news Jason – I’m off to find a news story to use for the update, along with the actual decision.
knowing you Max, you already found it, but here it is.
http://apps.co.lucas.oh.us/Courts/Appeals/DecisionsPDF/4323.pdf
And the final lines:
Thank you Appeals judges Arlene Singer, Thomas J. Osowik, and Charles D. Abood.
Actually Jason, I was just getting around to looking for it, but you saved me the trouble. Thanks brother. You know that you’re an indispensable part of this website, don’t you? I know my job would be a hell of a lot harder without you around. Plus you’re one of the nicest, most decent guys I know. That combination make for one seriously formidable man. I’m just glad you’re on our side. :>)
Oh that’s just spectacular! Thank you SO much for posting, Jason!
And this ruling comes as no surprise to anyone but….. the Gagnon fam ily/groupies
Hey Max just rip his pants off right here and now and kiss his ass some more. Lol.
I knew Bethany for a very long time and was as shocked and heartbroken as anyone who knew her by her death and the deaths of her beloved children. Gagnon deserves his punishment and I am sure he knows it. Where I draw the line is people condemning the man to hell. Is this Christian people who say this? It always disgusts me. NOBODY and I mean NOBODY has any idea where Gagnon will spend eternity but God. Nobody has the right to speak for God or demand God bend to their will and punish someone as they wish Him to.
DocMac,
1. Read the About link at the top and you’d see the website refers to a Department of Corrections officer’s estimation of those with pure evil in their demeanor and expressions. It’s the cold shiver down your spine you feel when you look into something evil.
2. Gagnon’s a very, very special case for me. I, like you, was a friend of Bethany. Gagnon’s family came out early on and flailed about defending him, parroting for a relief of his sentence and doing anything but answering the core question that could have saved Michael more than two decades in prison. Michael had to admit his crimes. Confess to them, plead guilty as sin, and throw himself on the mercy of the court to have avoided nearly the maximum sentence for his crimes. Likewise, as a Christian, I think you can see the parallel in the example.
3. The world is full of a lot of crappy people, and sometimes the intent of drawing attention to it is not to judge them for hell, but to remind us all of how lucky we have it and as an example for those who need it as a life lesson. Tell me, having known Bethany, have you not found yourself counseling folks who live around or near you about the dangers of a DUI? Even if the degree of preaching has been limited or more subtle?
I think the name of the site is more a figure of speech than anything…at least that’s how I take it.
Not all of us are morons. Just the ones defending the multiple murderer. Oh, and you’re a moron for making such a ridiculous blanket statement. I bet you have a popped collar too.
I wrestled a friend to the ground at a bar because she was going to drive home and refused to listen to me. Apparently there were three of me trying to talk sense into her. Three of me couldn’t, so all three of me took her ass down to the sticky floor next to the bar and wrestled her keys from her drunken hands. Why? Because I don’t want to be that pitiful soul standing beside a bloodstained street lamp, lighting a candle next to a washed out poster of some kid she smashed into the asphalt. Because I love my friend and don’t want to see anything bad happen to her, but even more because she might hurt other people. If Michael’s friends and family did any less, they deserve derision right along with him. Would you let him shoot himself in the head? Then why in holy FUCK would you let him get behind the wheel of a car while intoxicated?
What amazes me is that he was able to get into the car at all, especially knowing it has a keypad. Ever see a drunk jackass try to handle a keypad? Comedy gold, especially if there’s an alarm attached!
What kind of dipshit leaves their keys in the glove box? Seriously, is there some sort if Gagnon Family brain wasting disease that we don’t know about? Kinda like the Merrye family, but without the spiders.
Please, Clara. Don’t ever breed again.
Is that all you’re here for, to shut people up? Are you actually coming to an internet forum to tell people to shut up and back off?
You must be new to the internet, so let me help a bit with your understanding of the situation. This is a blog that allows comments to be made by practically anyone at any time. Those comments will range from the idiotic (yours) to the reasonable and somewhat entertaining (mine) and neither side can stop the other from commenting. The only people who can stop any one of us from commenting on this site are two guys who post as “Admin” and “Max the Cat”. If you piss those guys off, they will ban you from posting again. That is their right and there’s nothing you can do about it.
It is very tough to piss either of those guys off so completely they will deny you your right to free speech on this forum, where free speech is practically a god we all worship.
For instance, they will both protect your right to tell anyone here to stop commenting, to back off, to stop being blonde (I have black hair, btw), to stop sticking their nose where it doesn’t belong, etc. They will also both protect my right to tell anyone here to stop being a moron, to stop defending murderers, to stop referring to drunken mass murder as a ‘mistake’, etc. because, by protecting our right to do that, they also protect our right to make intelligent, well considered comments. It’s one of those ‘free speech’ things we freaky Americans seem to put so much stock in.
In short, no. I will not back off. Yes, I and others will continue to comment. No, there is nothing you can do about it. If you’re mad, be mad at Mr. Michael Gagnon for murdering an entire family with his stupidity.