UPDATE 3: Lamaricus Davidson, Letalvis Cobbins, George Thomas, Vanessa Coleman, and Eric Boyd
I’ve had some requests for the transcripts and documents that have been released in this case, so I’ve decided to post everything I managed to find in one place. Some of the things you will find here are links to documents, others are audio archives.
FYI, the case went to the jury Saturday evening in the trial of the State of Tennessee vs Letalvis Cobbins. I personally don’t see this one as a long deliberation. In fact, I’ll be surprised if we goes past today without a verdict.
Grand Jury Presentment (WARNING: graphic details of the murders)
Transcript of Knoxville PD’s interrogation on Lemaricus “Slim” Davidson
JANUARY 31st, 2007 – INTERROGATION OF VANESSA COLEMAN
JANUARY 11th, 2007 – INTERROGATION OF LETALVIS COBBINS
OTHER DOCUMENTS OF INTEREST
State’s Motion Detailing Specifics Of Alleged Crimes
State’s Motion Detailing Specifics On Alleged Rapes
Defense Motion Challenging Specifics Of Alleged Crimes And Rapes
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Hope they get a guilty verdict, although judging from these things alone there’s not much chance of anything else.
These guys are gonna get long dicked in jail.
I really hope they get the death penalty. I cannot believe there are people (if thats what I should even call them) that are capable if such horrific acts. ABsolutely disgusting.
What is freaky is that the mainstream media seemed, at the time of the crime, reluctant to report this story. Is it because the media shies away from reporting crimes blacks commit against whites? If this had been a gang of whites raping and murdering a black couple you could be goddamned sure this would have been all over the media including candlelight vigils and the like.
Steve,
Absolutely dead on correct.
And now everyone can call me a RACIST.
where is Reverend Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton NOW HUH? you can bet they swept this under their dirty rug!
I agree 100%. If that makes me racist; then so be it.
Who does it make racist when, as a race, caucasions are unprotected by hate crime legislation (unless they are gay or handicapped)? No one right? Why is it okay for some people to deem everything and everyone against them until they get special treatment, but for the same things to happen to someone else no one gives a damn? People want equality, well then dammit don’t think yourself better and expect anything more. Equality is not an on and off idea, its yes or no.
I read the other day about a rally regarding this case in Kentucky coming up soon and people are begging for this to be a hate crime. And I say good. Hit them with double the time because, frankly, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
Im sorry it is actually a rally in Tennessee.
I could be wrong; but, I think it is the community that does candlelight vigils not the media. Communities of Color definitely have much stronger organized community responses than Caucasian.
I don’t agree that the media is reluctant to cover black on white crime. But, then I don’t think any of you are being racist to think the way you think. One isn’t racist just by talking about the perceived differences based on race.
I would like to know why this hasn’t been more thoroughly covered by the national media–could it be that the media thinks it is less unusual for a person of color to commit these types of crimes, so not of interest? Again, I don’t know; just saying there can be various reasons–and I’d like to know them!
I think this crime should have been front page news from coast to coast!
And, I agree with Maelstrom: “Anything less than death would be an epic failure in this case.”
my husband and I have a bet going- I think its going to definately be a death penalty verdict, but he thinks that because it is a 70% black jury its not going to end that way.
I guess we will see soon.
70 % black jury. Hummm…perhaps my hope has dwindled a bit.
We shall see….
How did I know there would be no death penalty. I guess there is some comfort in the fact that they at least took away his possibility of parole. Small condolences I know.
I think a death sentence is almost a foregone conclusion at this point. However, when one considers some other verdicts juries have handed down you never know.
Anything less than death would be an epic failure in this case.
The death penalty would be a gift to these pieces of shit. Make them rot in jail for 40+ years.
The best thing about the death penalty is not the fact that they put to death a piece of shit cause that takes decades in this judicial system, it’s the fact that while they wait they sit in a cell all by themselves with no contact to their fellow inmates. Instead he got life now he can hang out with the other lowlifes getting jail tats and harassing the guards.
I am on page 83/97 of Lemaricus’s interrogation transcript and I can’t believe how he can’t get his story straight. Not that I expected him to, but I am thoroughly enjoying watching how the detectives manipulate him to bring out the truth. Besides a few pages missing out of this, it’s very thorough and bravo to the interrogrators… a job well done.
Anything less than the death penalty would be insulting to the victims’ families.
After skimming some of the paperwork, it looks k=like the defense has a long term strategy
1. Reduce the number of charges by saying that many violate double jeopardy
2. See how many moer charges will fall because paperwork gets lost, witnesses can not appear, etc
3. Plea bargain
4. Precedent – the old “he got away with something similar…”
Public pressure will be needed to get these people a death sentence, otherwise it’s going to be a tangled ball of yarn where either all get death or they all get off light on technicalities.
If the colors were reversed, the usual gang of racists would be chiming in at the news studios in Hymie Town…oops New York.
I think you’re close to their strategy, but I think it’s a failed one.
1. I agree that double jeopardy is the attempt, but the state has specifically stated how they’ll combine charges on convictions on counts. This is a paper-cut strategy by the prosecution. Almost every charge has 5 tangents. Any two tangents result in a conviction on the base charge. The worksheet that finally reaches the jury is going to make it difficult for anyone to avoid checking the guilty box. My guess is about 98 questions, any 14 of which can convict.
2. I think they used the grand jury well in this case, hopefully they’ll consolidate the state’s witnesses into a few experts who are absolutely perfect in their delivery. A few visual aids and this thing is in the bag.
3. Ah, I truly hope the prosecutor is hunting scalps on this one. This is an easy case to win. The only option for the plea bargain should be sentencing by a judge not a jury. This is going to be a very bad jury trial.
4. Rape and gang rape and finally incinerating a victim is hard for anyone in a jury box to face. There will be tears on some faces. The father of that girl will be there every day, and he’ll slowly catch the eye of every single juror there. They’ll look inside and if they’re human they’ll see the sort of anguish that resonates to the very core. I have a lot of faith in human beings. I have a lot of faith in the justice system in cases like this.
Jason,
I do hope that you’re right on this one. I have a very close friend who is a prosecutor though, and she says there is no such thing as a “slam dunk case” because the jury can be so unpredictable.
I do hope you’re correct though….hope hope hope.
I’m with you on this one Jason! I think the jury–no matter the color–will do the right thing given the enormous amount of evidence and the horror of the crimes.
I just can’t see anyone falling for some sob story and having that outweigh the several days of rape and torture. There were just too many times someone could have stopped the whole thing–no matter how bad their childhood may have been.
Perhaps, if it had been a horrible one-time event, I could see some idiot juror falling for the bad childhood story: “Oh they just made a bad choice. Blah, blah, blah.” But, this happened over several days; so, the “bad choice” excuse doesn’t work here.
Several descisions needs to be made to participate in a gang rape and while the “mob mentality” can be blamed for some of the bad decisions, one must still be held responsible for their little part.
While one may not be able to stop such from happening, one nees not participate. As more decide not to, the gang gets smaller or never materializes in the first place……
If a black juror lets them off, then racism is still all too alive.
If Jackson and Sharpton decide to disagree with a harsh sentence, then those two need to be gang raped.
You all do realize that with the last sentence above, I have just ruined my chance at becoming President of the USA……… all candidates must kiss the ass of Jesse Jackson in order to qualify for he primary…
Jackson and Sharpton should be gang raped also.
You show a much better working knowledge of the law than I do, so I hope that the law will work the way you say it will and get these bastards convicted……. I don’t think God needs to consult with us on the second round of judgment that we will all face.
These black POS need to be left alone at a Klan Rally.
Fred, I’ve seen Klan, and I’d want them(all of the KKK) marched into the same firing squad I’d want these folks to go before. The Klan isn’t justice. The Klan would make these things into faux martyrs.
These folks deserve a needle. They need to go through appeal after appeal only to be told firmly and clearly no. They need to be carried, if not dragged down the hallway to a table or chair. Their arms and legs need needles, and every moment of the process needs to be fear and self-loathing. They’ll look into the eyes of their victim’s families and then the last pictures they’ll see will be their victims, who they so carelessly used as sexual gratification toys. Then they’ll die.
Men and women will protest their deaths. The families will not truly be comforted, but no man or woman dressed in a bed sheet is needed for this sort of justice. In fact, the sheets should be in the laundry, on a shelf or drawer, or on the bed. There’s no need of vigilantes. It would make these monsters worth a little bit more than they deserve.
Absolutely wonderfully stated Jason.
Look, as much as I’d like to go Hostel on these subhumans, I want justice served, and still trust the system to accomplish this. No matter how our minds work, and despite the fantasies we create in our head regarding what we want done to these elaborations of carbon, I do not want to sink to their level. I consider myself, and most of the posters on this site far and away above that.
Let’s also remember that any member of a low rent, white trash, nonsensical “organization” such as the Klan is no better than any of these defendants. They share the same sickening hatred for human beings….something I am certain that we would all like to avoid.
So let’s wait and see what this jury decides. And hope for the sake of the victims families, as well as for humanity itself that they ALL get what is coming to them. And that can only be the needle.
One thing I noticed is that the transcript indicates that Daphne is Cobbins’ girlfriend, while the original story posted stated that she was Davidson’s girlfriend (and that he gave her the victim’s jewelry). I really wonder how much she or anyone else knew… you can’t possibly be at someone’s house and not know they are raping and torturing someone there for days… since it was ongoing, dont cha think?
Cobbins didn’t admit to his role in these transcripts, I’d be interested in reading the transcripts where he DID. I want to know how one possibly admits to the atrocities he committed.
And by the way, I’m a fast reader but this took me so damn long trying to translate his Ebonics into something that the average person can begin to comprehend. I like how he started talking about how he won’t mess with crack b/c he saw what it did to this mom… already hinting at “victim” “rough childhood” etc. but the interrogators did not fall for it and changed the subject.
Oh my fruity grapes, that transcript was PAINFUL to read!
Yeah, wait until you read Vanessa’s interview–she is fairly well spoken; but, claims not to have heard ANY noise from the girl being raped, tortured and ultimately killed–even though there was only a curtain separating the room. Apparently, there are no doors inside the house. Also, she could hear the men whispering while she took a shower; but, never heard ANYTHING from the girl.
The Interrogators did a great job with this interview. They catch her in several lies. I was really impressed.
She also never mentioned she helped rape the young man (whose name is now escaping me).
Her parents should be ashamed they raised such a heartless bitch.
I did read through the transcripts and only understood about every 5th word. Where did they attend school? Who raised these animals? Their mentality is not of humans. Not humans GOD created anyway. I hope their parents are proud of what they raised.
OOPS ignore that. I just realized this transcript was with DAVIDSON. Damn, for being a ringleader, he sure was a COWARD>
I will read this later. All I can say that they deserve to rot. Make them do hard labor with stale food in Siberia.
Some people have posted that death is a foregone conclusion. However, please correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it fairly difficult to enact the death penalty for a felony murder conviction?
If Davidson did the actual killings (or the prosecution cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Cobbins did them), Cobbins would lack the requisite mens rea to be eligible for the death penalty. As atrocious as this case is, unless Cobbins tried to kill, he is not eligible for the death penalty.
That said, besides the death thing, a conviction for felony murder DEFINITELY is a foregone conclusion. Cobbins has plead guilty to numerous felonies that directly lead to murder. Basically, with all of those felonies + felony murder, it is actually impossible that Cobbins will ever be eligible for parole.
Wow all three of these assholes are just dumb idiots. Reading those transcripts was hard because I prefer clean english.
None of them seem like hardcore murderers at all. They seem like buffoons. Animals not operating on a higher plane of consciousness. I mean, why? Why kidnap and rape those kids? Why not just take the car?
They don’t even seem particularly malicious. Just stupid and evil I guess. I always thought evil was smarter, more calculating than these isiots.
I hope they all get death and I hope it hurts. Screw my liberal sensibilities. They all deserve to burn.
Letalvis Cobbins was found guilty of first degree murder for both of them today and tomorrow is the pently phase
Thank you Mindy!
*Crosses fingers for Death Penalty*
I just read that Cobbins family had to be hustled out of the court room because they were sobbing so badly. Read that again…THEY were sobbing.
That makes me so profoundly angry because it implies that they don’t believe he should have been convicted.
I realize the loyalty between family, but honestly, would any of you stand by your family member if they did this ?
The court system is so shitty here. I wish we had a system of eye for an eye here. I understand some people will look at it as more barbaric than the initial act, but its fully deserved when it comes to heinous acts like this.
The fact that Boyd was sitting in the court room taunting and smiling and laughing at the victim’s family is disgusting. He should have been treated like the dog he is and had a muzzle put over his mouth. I can’t even begin to imagine what the family was feeling when he was doing that. Thinking about it angers me to the point where I wanna torture all of them in the same ways.
Prison is not meant for people like this. It’s hard to even call them people. I wish people would just step up and eradicate people like this from our planet, they don’t deserve to share the same earth as us.
This government needs to show a no remorse policy for scum like this. They don’t deserve prison, they don’t deserve to live on my money.
I can only hope they get what they deserve in prison. I hope they meet someone more sicker in prison, someone that’ll rape them over and over and hopefully the only foreign object going up their asses is a shank.
http://www.wate.net/news/live-blog/cobbins-trial
Live blogging and play by play of the trial…
**sigh**
The only thing sadder than the events that ended the lives of Channon Christian and Chris Newsom are the racial jabs I’m seeing here…
Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are NOT the official spokespersons for the Black community. They are two publicity-hungry loudmouths who happen to have a history of activism tied to their public images. And believe me, those exist in EVERY COLOR. (My point is, what’s the mentality that saw fit to even drag them into this?)
There is not a single canon of Black experience. We don’t approve of this culturally and think they should be let off just because they’re Black. The very idea is probably the 4th stupidest thing I’ve heard, and I’m going light on it because most of the people who think in those terms don’t even know any Black people…
OK, I’m ranting now… It’s just the Jesse and Al references really hit a nerve, because for some reason, the actions of individuals always seem to reflect on our whole race. Not fair. I’m going to bed. God bless America, and the jury that convicted Cobbins. One down, three to go.
you should say “they should’nt be the spokesmen for the black community” because so far.. they do rant and rave only about cases where it is black people commiting crimes or black people victims… NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND EVER. Have you ever seen them stick up for a NON BLACK person?
(Aside: Do people REALLY think crimes against Blacks by Whites are reported on MORE than crimes against Whites perpetrated by Blacks??? **shaking head** What’s the weather like in “HEAD-UP-YOUR-ASS-VILLE”?)
If that is not the case then I would like an accurate explanation as to why the main stream media has buried this story.
Any other reason why it’s being ignored ?
Has CNN mentioned it ? How about NBC, OR ABC ? NRP ? Hummm, rather odd, isn’t it ?
Recognizing that this case is in fact being neglected on purpose is not “having ones head up their ass”. It is an actual fact, and the reasons for it can be speculated upon endlessly.
Yes, ABeautifulLife, I do believe that white on black crime is aired more than crimes committed by blacks on whites. For every one story you hear about a white attacking or killing a black I could show you ten of the reverse racial makeup. Seriously if the racial roles were reversed do you honestly think that this would not be construed as a vile hate crime. As for Al Sharpton not being a spokesman for the black community then maybe he shouldn’t be working for the NAACP. Sharpton and the NAACP seems to pick its fights in such an odd way. For the most part they are always on the side of the criminals, even when the blacks they are defending are charged with attacking other blacks. There are many myths about the white race that the mainstream media seems to keep pushing down the throats of people to ignorant to research the subject themselves.
1) Whites are more likely to be serial killers.
2) Whites are more likely to be pedophiles.
3) Blacks commit crimes at the same if not less percentages as whites.
4) Whites are more likely to carry and spread stds.
5) Whites are the main cause of the slavery in the world.
6) Most of all violent crimes are committed by whites than any other race.
This whole post may be construed as racist by some. Seriously though facts and statistics tell the truth whether it is pleasant to the reader or not.
I will not remain silent just for fear of someone calling me a racist. The truth is there you just have to risk being called a racist to see it.
Omar,
White people are in fact more likely to be serial killers. That is indeed a fact.
Just saying.
The sad thing is Mailstrom it is a perceived fact. I’m not sure why it is common knowledge that only Whites are Serial or Spree killers. It could be the same reason that the mainstream media is always demonizing the white man as of lately. There have been studies conducted a few universities that show the real truth of the matter. It’s odd that many of the minorities that commit either serial or spree killings are not classified as serial killers. I guess that term is reserved for whites. Here are just a few I found, the sad thing (I could be wrong on some of the dates) these are mostly from the last 30 years.
Matthew Emanuel Macon
Shelly Brooks (Murdered
Jervon Miguel Coleman (
Brian Ranard Davis
Paul Durousseau
Mark Goudeau
Coral Eugene
Anthony McKnight (
Derrick Todd Lee (
Charles Lendelle Carter
The Zebra Killings
Chester Turner
Lorenzo J. Gilyard
Eugene Victor Britt
Reginald and Jonathan Carr
Ray Joseph Dandridge and his uncle, Ricky Gevon Gray
The Tinley Park Murderer (Suspect hasn’t been found but has been described as black)
Henry Louis Wallace
Charles Johnston
Craig Price
Harrison Graham
Charles Lee “Cookie” Thornton
Darnell Hartsfeld & Romeo Pinkerton
John Allen Muhammad & Lee Boyd Malvo
George Russell
Timothy W. Spencer
Elton M. Jackson
Carlton Gary
Mohammed Adam Omar
Kendall Francois
Terry A. Blair
Wayne Williams
Vaughn Greenwood
Andre Crawford
Calvin Jackson
Gregory Klepper
Alton Coleman
Harrison Graham
Cleophus Prince
Robert Rozier
Maurice Byrd
Maury Travis
Hulon Mitchell, a.k.a. Yahweh Ben Yahweh
Lorenzo Fayne
Paul Durousseau
Eddie Lee Mosley
Henry Lee Jones
Richard “Babyface” Jameswhite
Donald E. Younge, Jr.
Ivan Hill
Michael Vernon
Chester Dewayne Turner
Peter Odighizuwa
Mark James Robert Essex
Stanley “Tookie” Williams
Richard Markell “Lucky” Henson, 20 and Steven Lavelle
Llewelyn James
Steven Fasson
David Thabo Simelane
Moses Sitole
Private Ronald A. Gray
While I understand the point you’re trying to make Omar, there is a vast difference between spree killers and serial killers.
Serial killers start off with fantasies usually after exhibiting the 3 common signs of the homicidal triade. Bed wetting, abuse to small animals, and pyromania.
Then the fantasies turn into reality and they take their first victim, with a “cooling off” period in between how many victims they decide to dispatch within their period of killing. But it has to be a number of 3 with a cooling off period.
Spree killers are a totally different animal in every way. The two are simply not comparable, and it is a fact that more whites are actaul serial killers than blacks.
Ironically you failed to mention Wayne Williams, a black serial killer of children.
My mistake…Wayne Williams was on your list.
That was my error, and I apologize.
You forgot:
Coral Eugene Watts-Serial killer who killed 19 to 80 women in Michigan and Texas.
David Burke-Disgruntled employee who killed his former manager and two pilots before committing suicide on board Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771. It crashed near Cayucos, California, killing 43 people on December 7, 1987.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1771
and are not “BLACK” people the ones to commit more shootings, robberies, rapes and killing their girlfriends baby and cooking kittens.
im just sayin
Hummm…now we’re entering into an odd realm of comparison. Serial murder and a somewhat random act of animal abuse and or robbery ?
And by somewhat random I am in no way attempting to excuse nor mitigate animal abuse or robbery….hopefully you all know me far better than that.
“For every one story you hear about a white attacking or killing a black I could show you ten of the reverse racial makeup.”
I agree completely. Hopefully for your sake, that came out wrong, because that’s exactly my point.
I don’t think it would be a hate crime if the roles were reversed, unless the White kids were Klan members or NeoNazis. I see the “hate crime” badge used when the attack is provoked by THE FACT OF THE VICTIMS IDENTITY (as in, when white supremacists beat up a gay couple, or when a group of Black kids beat up a white kid for being “in the wrong neighborhood” – yes that happened, and they were charged with a hate crime, although some of you seem to think White people “don’t qualify”… As you so smartly stated, a little research will go a long way.) I don’t think that was the case here. I think these four scum-suckers targeted these two white kids because they thought it would be easier and/or somehow more fun, but it wasn’t because of racial persecution per se. Had the victims been Hispanic, Asian, or even bourgeouis Black (as opposed to lower-class), I think they would have met the same terrible end.
And what does Sharpton being in the NAACP have to do with him being a spokesperson for the Black community? I’m a card-carrying NAACP member myself, and I don’t speak for anyone but myself. The problem is, when Al speaks, the media points their cameras at him because they find his hibbity jibbity so darn convenient to their “all Black people do is stand behind each other” ideology. For every Al, there’s a Michael Eric Dyson or a Lerone Bennett. Bet you’ve never heard of them.
Statistically, I could prove any point I wanted to, and that’s a fact that’s well known in the scholarly community. You can quote numbers to back up the idea the Moutain Dew causes autism – that doesn’t make it fact. I could go on and on about the myths about Black people, and unfounded crime statistics, and the media and it’s demonizing of certain demographics. But methinks a site like this (clearly more slanted towards Conservative thinking) is not the place for it. Best wishes.
(P.S. We do agree on one thing – who cares if you’re called a racist? I’ve been called a lot of things in my lifetime. It’s what I answer to that matters. Just speak your mind, and the response you get will speak for itself.)
As far as Al Sharpton being in the NAACP not being a spokesmen for the black community, I guess your argument makes no sense to me then. The NAACP is now the largest PACs for blacks. So these are spokesmen for the black community.
As far as statistics being able to be used for either side of the equation is naive. How do you really spin the simple fact that when 60% of all violent crime are committed by blacks who make up a very small percentage of the population? Really blacks as a whole make up 12-13% of the population and if you take out the ones that are too young which seems to be 10yr olds and younger, or the too old, 80 and above, you are left with around 4.5%. So that means that over half of the violent crime committed in our country is done by roughly 4.5% of our citizens. I’m not too sure how anyone could rationally spin these numbers. What could possibly the retort, that these numbers come from racist polls, sorry but the numbers come from the Department of Justice. No matter how you want to try to spin the numbers they are a fact.
A good case point is the once beautiful city of Detroit. Detroit was once called the Paris of the Midwest. Now it is nothing but a cesspool of crime and corruption. Now I’m not saying that blacks or any other race is the sole reason that any of this has happened but it is an odd fact that when Detroit was 80% white it was a beautiful vibrant city. Now that its 90% black I don’t know too many people who would want to spend any more time there than necessary. It’s school system is one of the worst in the nation. Now the school districts in the major metro area have to bus these kids into their schools.
The last time I drove through Detroit I saw a sign that said….
“Welcome to Detroit. We hope you make it out alive.”
I shit you not. Needless to say, unfortunately I have never been back minus a few quick trips through Metro. It’s a damn shame too.
“Steve says:
August 24, 2009 at 11:59 am
What is freaky is that the mainstream media seemed, at the time of the crime, reluctant to report this story. Is it because the media shies away from reporting crimes blacks commit against whites? If this had been a gang of whites raping and murdering a black couple you could be goddamned sure this would have been all over the media including candlelight vigils and the like.”
THIS is having one’s head up their ass. So, sorry if you took that personally.
I don’t know about any of the news stations where YOU live, but I hadn’t heard this, OR ANY OTHER OF THESE STORIES SAVE TWO OR THREE in the mainstream media. Were all these other stories neglected because the perpetrators were white, and there’s some pie-in-the-sky conspiracy to make it look like white people don’t commit crimes??
My speculation is akin to what most of I’m hearing here, and I think it’s utter BS. No disrespect to you, but if you want the accurate explanation, then email Rupert Murdoch or any of the other media mavens who control what’s reported and what isn’t. But OBJECTIVE REASONING should tell you that it’s not race related.
Thank you and good night.
ABeautifulLife,
Why would I e-mail Rupert Murdoch when I first heard this story on Fox news ? Seems rather counter-productive wouldn’t you say ?
And why on earth would I e-mail Ted Turner ? That idiot is still struggling to grasp the concept that the Khmer rouge actually killed people.
LOL… Good point… But, hey, they’re the ones with all the answers, I ’spose… Doesn’t make sense to you OR me. **throws hands up and shrugs**
“It’s school system is one of the worst in the nation.” Case closed. If a little more time, effort, energy and resources could be invested into the public education system, the crimes rates would drop dramatically. Surely you’re aware of the evidence on the correlation between poverty, educational levels, and crime as well, no? If not, look into it. But don’t just examine the “ghettos” – be sure to read your history on how the fall of Industry affected the crime levels in Baby America. And those crimes were committed by IMMIGRANTS. Poor, WHITE, desperate immigrants.
There are all kinds of socioeconomic factors at work in our fabric of society (and this is the viewpoint of sociology, not just my personal opinion), and while that doesn’t excuse some of the things I see going on in the Black community, it certainly means that we are not born bad and destined to follow some sort of genetic programming to commit crimes. My earlier argument to you was that Blacks perpretrating crimes against Whites are far more visible to the public eye. I can’t say what happens more often – I can only say what I hear of more often… and that would certainly serve to explain your theory that Black people are committing all the crimes.
Unless you’ve got some sort of problem with getting the chip off of your shoulder, question it please.
Sorry… to clarify, this was directed at Omar.
And also to Omar -
I don’t know what to say about you and Al Sharpton. Here you have a BLACK PERSON telling you that he is not the spokesperson for the Black community. Yet you (and I’m assuming that you’re not Black) INSIST that he is. Wow. Don’t know why you refuse to come off that, but if you don’t like him personally, say so. No need to make him the excuse for your *feelings* towards an entire race.
I would like Al Sharpton a lot more if he did seem to come out for social injustice not just the perceived injustice to only blacks. Now this is in no way saying that injustices do not happen to blacks, because they do and in record numbers. To stand behind a rapist and claim that they deserve better treatment simply cause they are black disgusts me. It should disgust everyone, but it don’t, evidenced by all the rallies that seem to be filled with people that are just ignorant on the issues.
First off I am a card carrying Republican. George W. Bush was the spokesman for our group for 8yrs now this does not mean I believe or even agree with what he says but his was my spokesman. Same with being an american now. I may not agree with a lot of the social programs that obama is instituting but he is now our national spokesman. Saying someone is not you a spokesman for your community simply because you don’t agree with the message they are sending does not change the fact that they are speaking out for you.
As far as the socioeconomic angle you are playing I used to believe the same thing. Honestly though it’s a simple cop out. Are you seriously trying to tell me that the reason there is so much crime committed by the black community is because they are poor. Now honestly there are a great many poor whites, hispanics, chinese and arabs, but you don’t see the crime figures in these neighborhoods.
No, I am not trying to say that blacks or any other race are born the way they are. I do not believe throwing more time, energy and resources will help out the school system either. This Marxist idea has been the backbone of american school systems for the past 80 years. Ultimately the fault lies with the parents. I don’t know you, I don’t know your background. Have you ever been to Detroit, Cleveland, Los Angles or any other city where the racial demographic is skewed far above the national average? It is not a pretty site. This is where the main majority of these idiot racists get their fodder from.
I (as a white male) am becoming so sick of the race card being played within our country. As long as any group has what they perceive to be a valid reason to not succeed, they won’t. I have been in a few discussions with some of my black colleagues about these same issues. They bring up slavery and the entitlement that they feel they deserve for having been a role in an embarrassing part in our national history. This kind of argument simply dumbfounds me. They nor any person alive today had anything to do with slavery. They being the descendants of former slaves should not grant them more rights than any other person within this country. That’s not how it is though is it?
You have the affirmative action laws on your side, which is nothing short of racism itself. The public keeps clamoring the saying we all are equal, if that is the case why do we need laws that give an unfair advantage to separate groups of people.
Omar GW Bush was and is a spokesman for nothing. He was the President of the United States of America.
I never have nor will I ever vote party. I vote person. The Sherif of my county I know personally. HE served 23 year in the Army as an MP and CID. He has worked hard to find and hire fair people to populate his force. He has fought tooth and nail to get the money he needs to do his job. Crime is down in my county and trust in the Sherif’s department is up. Businesses are moving back and people are enjoying life a little more.
He is a democrat. I asked him why when the republican party is closer to his ideas. He told me that in order to get elected in WA you have to have a D next to your name. Right or wrong thats the way it is.
ow saying that any one person is the spokes person for the republican party is just stupid. There are so many different people that make up the party.
sorry for the typos and words that don’t belong in the sentence i just woke up. lol
The black community would benefit itself more by streanghtening themselves rather that constently fighting against white people. The money they pay Al sharpton, and Quanell X could be use to send a child to college, or purchase a single mom a car to ensure reliable transportation to be enployed. I think their intent is good, but expecting and receiving handouts will never meet up to the knowledge and self respect you gain from hard work. Teach your race to work for what they want and no one can take your accomplishments away. Fortunetly that is what most black people do in life, like all races, but that doesnt make headlines and that doesnt get votes!!!!
“Fortunetly that is what most black people do in life, like all races, but that doesnt make headlines and that doesnt get votes!!!!”
Thank you, Penny.
BLACK PEOPLE ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER RACE, EXCEPT IN OUR HISTORY. Well, in one respect – when a Black person commits a crime, it seems to spark a response condemning our whole community. We are all individuals. We are all different. And anybody making commentary on the Black community as a whole in light of this horrific tragedy isn’t getting that. It’s no different than me looking at one of these baby-raping killers on this site and saying, “That’s typical, because white people are more prone to serial killing than Blacks are. And look at the numbers in these rural areas where nothing but white people live. Rural white people must be prone to crime too.” (I know numbers are your thing, so statistically, that statement is true. I know you don’t think so, but it is.) I was amazed about how many people reacted to Barack and Michelle Obama like, “Geez, they’re a married, upwardly mobile, progressive Black couple. How unique.” NEWSFLASH: I’ve been surrounded by Barack and Michelle Obamas my whole life. But that’s not exciting to people observing our community. They’d rather see the death, destruction, and corruption that plagues EVERY SINGLE RACE that walks this earth, and yet take this observation and skew it as if we are somehow holding a monopoly over fucked-upness. (Kudos to me for my new word. LOL). It just wears me out, man.
Omar –
1) the supposed “advantages” were to level the playing field from over 200 years of DECIDED DISADVANTAGE. But no, it didn’t work out that way for anyone, and I just count that on human nature. Yeah, slavery is long gone. Great. But the financial gain from it still is held largely in white hands. And the attempts at equal opportunity and affirmative action were at least an olive branch, or an attempt to right what was wrong – just like they did for the Holocaust survivors, and the Native Americans, AND the Japanese Americans held in internment camps in WWII. But try to do anything nice for the Black folks, and everybody wants to scream foul… (that’s sarcasm there, BTW… don’t mean to sound bitter).
2) Bush was an ELECTED OFFICIAL in the Republican party. The party came together and APPOINTED him the leader. That DOES make him a spokesman. Al Sharpton (whom I don’t like myself) is a MEMBER of the NAACP. So am I. To join, all you need to do is fill out a form and pay your money. You see the difference?!?! And he gets all the camera time, because quite frankly, Al’s a circus, and people love to see his antics, so the media is content to point those cameras right at him.
Now, I see the point you’re trying to make, but we have to respectfully agree to disagree, because frankly, I wouldn’t expect someone not of my persuasion to understand the subtleties of what I’m saying. It takes a very open-mind.
P.S. You can ignore the socioeconomic discrepancies if you so choose… to each his own… just know it hurts your credibility just a tad. :-)
I am not ignoring the socioeconomics of the situation. I just don’t think it’s relevant What I’m saying is are these people not responsible for their own actions? To me this is nothing but finding an excuse for someone to do something they know is wrong. What it comes down to is parents not willing to raise their own children. Expecting society or the public school system to raise their kids is a recipe for disaster.
idiot
Damn Omar- Quit stealing my picture!
for as long as there is a human race there will be these types of things happening. what do you think war is? it is a crime. and crime is war against society. race has nothing to do with anything. racism
is just another crime. so all of you who think you are being so clever with your racist comments, you are just kidding yourself. you
are just as much the problem as the people who committ crimes. you may think you are in some way special and immune to indictment, but you are not.you are as guilty as any of the creeps
who you are talking about.god only knows what goes on in your heads day to day.your parents must be very proud of you. you turned out just like them.
omar…shut up.
Oliver, I totally agree with Omar. How about you shut up now. You are being pretty rude. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion without being branded a “racist”.
Ridiculous.
There is no excuse for what these animals did to this couple –
NONE.
Millions of people have it far, far worse than them & never resorted to kidnapping, stealing, raping, torturing & murdering innocent people. These idiots were worthless bottom feeders, saw easy targets & had nothing better to do than to victimize a young couple for their own amusement.
and whats with this comment you made?
“race has nothing to do with anything. racism
is just another crime. so all of you who think you are being so clever with your racist comments, you are just kidding yourself. you
are just as much the problem as the people who committ crimes. you may think you are in some way special and immune to indictment, but you are not.you are as guilty as any of the creeps
who you are talking about.”
Really? I feel this crime was absolutely racially motivated against the young couple. Does that make me a racist now because I think that? I am getting sick of people like you conveniently calling everyone else a “racist” because they simply have an opinion that you don’t agree with.
I’m just about to get out my little violin if I have to read any more of your posts.
I don’t think it was racially motivated beyond the perps assumption that all whites in that area are affluent. In my opinion they were targeted more for the possibility of what was in their car/pockets than their race. I am white and I was raised in a very affluent neighborhood by a father with a tendency towards bigotry, so I have every reason to instantly assume it was a black on white crime. I do not. That does not mean I don’t feel Hollywood’s opinion is invalid, impossible or any of that. It’s quite probable, so why treat it as ridiculous? I could easily be wrong!
Can we not discuss race, the possibility of a racial motivation without being branded racist ourselves? Is it now so taboo a subject we can’t even discuss it rationally and respectfully as a possible aspect in this convoluted case? Have we moved backwards in our evolution away from racism?
The more I read this site, the more I’m thrilled I never had children.