UPDATE 2: Jordan Brown

ADULT TRIAL FOR BOY IN DEATH OF PENNSYLVANIA WOMAN, FETUS
excerpts of an article by Joe Mandack – The Associated Press

March 29, 2010 — A Pennsylvania boy who was 11 when he was accused of killing his father’s pregnant fiancee with a shotgun blast to the back of her head as she lay in bed will be tried as an adult in the death of both the woman and the fetus, a judge ruled Monday.

Jordan Brown, now 12, is charged with criminal homicide in the death of 26-year-old Kenzie Marie Houk in their farmhouse in New Galilee, in western Pennsylvania, on Feb. 20, 2009. Houk was 8 1/2 months pregnant; the male fetus died from a resulting lack of oxygen.

“This offense was an execution-style killing of a defenseless pregnant young mother. A more horrific crime is difficult to imagine,” Lawrence County Judge Dominick Motto wrote in his opinion refusing to move the case to juvenile court.

The boy could be convicted of anything from involuntary manslaughter to first-degree murder under Pennsylvania’s homicide law. Prosecutors have said they will seek a conviction on first-degree murder charges, for which he could face up to life in prison if convicted.

Cynthia Orr, president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Attorneys, said she’s never heard of someone as young as Brown charged with fetal homicide. Brown’s attorneys did not immediately return calls seeking comment on the ruling but are expected to appeal.

Prosecutors have suggested the boy was jealous of Houk and her unborn son. Police had said Brown hid the weapon under a blanket so Houk’s 7-year-old daughter wouldn’t see it as he entered her mother’s room. Later, authorities say, he threw the spent shell casing along a path on his way to a bus and went to school.

A state trooper testified that tests showed the shell was fired from Brown’s youth-model 20-gauge shotgun.

Brown’s attorneys, Dennis Elisco and David Acker, have argued the boy’s case would best be dealt with in juvenile court, where he could receive treatment and incarceration specifically aimed at younger offenders.

Under state law, the attorneys had to convince the judge that he was more “amenable” to rehabilitation in the juvenile system — which would have jurisdiction only until he is 21 — than as an adult.

But the judge said the testimony of defense psychologist Kirk Heilbrun didn’t convince him that Brown was best tried as a juvenile. Heilbrun said that the boy was likely at low risk of offending again — but the judge noted the assessment did not question whether Brown committed the crime.

Motto focused on findings by a prosecution psychiatrist, Dr. John O’Brien, who found that Brown tended to “minimize” his wrongdoing and to “deny” and “shift blame” for his misdeeds. Brown, specifically, denied killing Houk when examined by both doctors.

Kevin Harley, spokesman for the Pennsylvania attorney general, said prosecutors agree with the decision but stressed that prosecutors could still decide to move the case to juvenile court themselves.

Debbie Houk, the victim’s mother, said she doesn’t understand why there would be debate about the decision.

“There was no reason for uncertainty in our eyes,” Houk said. “We’re pleased.”

I hate to say I told you so, but……

Anyway, step one in Justice for Kenzie Houk is complete. What I found especially pleasing about Judge Motto’s decision was the common sense way he went about making it. For instance, he basically discounted the defense’s psychologist, Kirk Heilbrun because Dr. Heilbrun didn’t take into consideration the fact that Jordan might be guilty – a distinct possibility considering the evidence.

I’ve included the entire text of Judge Motto’s decision in this update. You can access it by clicking here.

Filed under Updates | . Written on March 29th, 2010 by Max The Cat

143 Comments »

143 Responses to “UPDATE 2: Jordan Brown”

MBA-Ms.BadAss says:

March 29, 2010 at 8:11 pm

It’s obvious that defense psychologist Kirk Heilbrun did a poor job of convincing the judge; however, findings by the prosecution psychiatrist Dr. John O’Brien were not monumental enough to have Brown tried as an adult. What 11 year old kid doesn’t blame others or deny the wrong he/she has done when caught doing wrong? That’s what kids do; deny, deny, deny! Denying the fact that the committed this crime is no reason to try Brown as an adult.

Reply
- Zw says:
  
  March 30, 2010 at 12:07 am
  
  I agree.. I knew they would charge him as an adult we all discussed the fact that Pennsylvania does that every time..I just dont feel right morally charging him as an adult…What he did was horrific but he was also 11 years old…
  
  Reply
  - Mulch says:
    
    March 30, 2010 at 12:27 am
    
    It was also premeditated. He knew what he was going to do before. After he tried to cover it up and he lied to the police. that shows he knew he was doing wrong. That proves he is mentally stabil to stand trial as an adult.
    
    He murdered 2 people. For that there is no excuse. He acted as an adult in this crime.
    
    Reply
    - Zw says:
      
      March 30, 2010 at 11:03 am
      
      Covering up something you did wrong doesn’t make you an adult..The kid was 11 I don’t know what is so hard to understand. Your brain isnt developed enough to grasp the consequences of murder at the age of 11. There is a reason why people under 18 are not allowed to drink or smoke or vote or join the armed forces…Because they are kids. We have rules set up by our country for a reason and those rules state children shall be tried in juvenile court.
      
      Reply
      - vcbecky says:
        
        March 30, 2010 at 11:28 am
        
        Zw, I don’t want to believe our children are capable of this kind of viciousness either. I want to believe it’s anything but premeditated, calculated homicide. He must’ve been rebelling against extreme abuse. He must have had a good reason to do what he did because no child thinks this kind of evil up on their own.
        
        The evidence points only to Jordan, including witnesses who saw him to try to cover up his actions both before and after the murder. He planned it out, apparently for a long time. Long enough to have announced his intentions way ahead of time, and more than once. There is no evidence of abuse. There is evidence of Jordan being a schoolyard bully and a selfish little shit. The kid is still bullying people behind bars even now. He may have no real concept of the scope of time and what ‘life in prison without possibility of parole’ means because he lacks enough perspective, but he damn well knows what ‘murder’ is. He was a hunter. He knows what bullets do.
        
        Do you think the police, the attorneys or judge wanted to believe a child is capable of this any more than we do? No one wants to digest this, but in this case we have no choice. It’s either we shackle this little monster down, or he grows into a big monster and kills more people in the future.
      - Brickhouse says:
        
        April 3, 2010 at 3:17 pm
        
        I’m 42 and I can distinctly remember being 11 and knowing full well that it was wrong to murder & the consequences of murder. My father was in the military and had explained it to me on numerous occasions. Today’s youth are exposed to so much more, starting with the two WARS our country is engaged in right now, the exposure to the internet and TV shows such as “COPS”, “Law & Order” and “24″ and know full well what it means to take a human life.
        
        I’ve been around long enough to have actually run across some loons that I suspected may have killed someone. They have a look and a vibe about them that just gives you the heebie jeebies. Trust your gut when you feel it.
  - geojon says:
    
    May 29, 2011 at 7:16 am
    
    all i can say to your post is this: you are wrong. In any case the girl and her baby are dead. I live one town away…the impact here has been devastating…this little bastard should be hung not life in prison. who did it? the tooth fairy? only 2 sets of tracks lead away from that house in fresh snow. no others…period. or maybe you think the girl killed herself. if you dont put him in adult prison…and release him at 21…your sending a message…it’s ok now,,,honey…your free to kill again. who’s next? maybe you? someone you may know…or just a oh poor me in the news again. WHO cares about the victims…obvisouly you don’t. well we do.
    
    Reply
- Harley Quinn says:
  
  March 30, 2010 at 12:32 pm
  
  Do kids also meticulously plan and enact horrific double homicides in a more premeditated matter than a lot of adults we read about here? If so, I’m glad I refilled my birth control this morning.
  
  Reply
  - Daughter of the Firmament says:
    
    March 31, 2010 at 4:47 pm
    
    I am glad to see that I am not the only one here who is too afraid to bring a child into this world…..
    
    And that has got to be the creepiest mugshot ever! I wonder if he has ever cried over what he is accused of doing?
    
    Reply
    - Harley Quinn says:
      
      April 1, 2010 at 8:52 am
      
      I don’t begrudge anybody else children (so long as they take care of them, don’t force them on me, and definitely don’t harm them ever in any way shape or form) but me? I don’t want them. Never have. What kills me is all of these people with short fuses or who don’t want to change their lifestyle can simply not have kids instead of abusing or neglecting them. I don’t have them BECAUSE I have a short fuse, and I don’t EVER want to harm a child. I’m not saying I would, but I know I don’t have the patience and it’s not the childs fault. I also don’t want to work motherhood into my lifestyle so rather than have a child and neglect it, I just pop a simple pill daily and everybody wins. It’s so easy.
      
      Reply
      - Brickhouse says:
        
        April 3, 2010 at 2:57 pm
        
        I feel as if you’re my ghost writer. You said what I and countless other women have also thought. Thank you for being bold.
- Malik7 says:
  
  April 18, 2010 at 4:47 am
  
  Sorry to have to say this, but the hell it isn’t!!
  
  This evil diabolical little boy KNEW what he was doing, he KNEW what he was plotting to do and he KNEW the consiquences of shooting and murdering an innocent person – in this case 2, the innocent unborn child!
  
  The choices he made are the consequences that he’ll be forced to carry for the rest of his life. Sadly, this tragedy happened and now it can’t be reversed, so this little boy has to pay for the senseless crime that he commited.
  
  Juvinile treatment is not the answer in this case. Let’s say that he DOES get such treatment, is so-called rehabbed, gets out at about 18 or 21, or even earlier for good behavior. Who’s to say that he won’t re-offend? Even now, who’s to say that this little boy won’t get mad at his dad’s NEXT girlfriend and friggen kill her?!
  
  Nope, sorry! This little boy has to be taught a lesson. One that says you just don’t go around killing innocent people because you don’t like them and then expect to be treated with kindness, sympathy and understanding!
  
  He’s now a career criminal Frankenstien. He could end up being given a sentense as long as Sherman Burnett Jr. or even longer. He’ll NEVER see the streets again. You knowingly murder someone, you pay. He won’t be sentensed to death because of his age when the crime was commited, but he WILL definitely do time behind bars, right where he belongs.
  
  And he won’t get any leniency! These days, judges are even tougher
  on young criminals so that they won’t get away with murder. Just ask Sherman Burnett Jr. who is doiong time for 60 uyears behind bars.
  
  Reply
deedeebug95 says:

March 29, 2010 at 10:05 pm

Max, just as I said on your interview blog, that child is a hunter has hunted and killed. He knew exactly what he was doing! I have a 15 year old boy and he has denied wrong doing’s in the past,but when pressed has always come forward with remorse to admit his misdeeds and to say he was sorry. This child has shown no remorse and I believe would be a danger to society in the future.

Reply
- Brickhouse says:
  
  April 3, 2010 at 4:07 pm
  
  The Shadow asked us, “Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?”
  
  I think we all know the answer to that question.
  
  Throughout history it has been acceptable for youth to kill an enemy of the country, the farm, the family, etc.; it was not considered murder. Parents teach their children what an enemy is and how to fight against an enemy. “Stranger Danger”, inappropriate touching, physical fighting, etc.
  
  Maybe Jordan had a warped sense of “enemy” and had developed a pack mentality about his family. Perhaps he deluded his immature mind into the animal kingdom (he was an animal hunter) and saw Kenzie as a threat to his pack. Then and only then could I have the slightest bit of compassion for him.
  IMO, when analyzing the actions of a youth, the parent’s involvement in the youth’s mental development must always be considered.
  
  IMO, It appears that what this boy did he did out of jealousy and spite and it was murder. If he was told that Kenzie was an enemy of the family, that might be considered a factor in his case. However, if Jordan KNEW what he was planning was not to protect his family but was because he simply did not want her or a new baby in his house, then he might be a psychopath. Born that way, going to die that way, no cure. A threat to society.
  
  On the other hand, I recall a recent case where a 10 yr old was playing with his two cousins, a boy and a younger girl, and they were imitating wrestler moves they had witnessed on TV. The 10 yr old jumped off the couch and landed on his younger female cousin and accidentally killed her. He was not charged with any crime, yet he killed his cousin. He had no idea that what he witnessed on TV during wrestling matches was fake. He told the police at the scene that he never meant to hurt her.
  
  Reply
Southern Lady says:

March 29, 2010 at 10:52 pm

My husband was a child soldier here in Africa when he was 12, so I asked him if he thought an American 12 year old who had not been a soldier should be tried as an adult. He said if the kid was a hunter and knew the results of gunfire, than it was premeditated and yes, a murderer on caliber with an adult. I have to believe him on this.
This child has murder in him. Treatment will not make it disappear. Get him off the streets before it happens again.

Reply
Mulch says:

March 30, 2010 at 12:21 am

The little shit should fry.

I hope with this update we can leave out the weapons right debate?

Reply
stormy weathers says:

March 30, 2010 at 12:42 am

This is bullshit he was fucking 11 he didn’t know what he was doing.

yet people seem to think he was old enough to make these choices…..Yet when a paedophile has sex with an 11 year old and claims that it was consensual……People are up in arms saying that there is no way an 11 year old child can consent yet somehow he can tried as an adult

COME ON PEOPLE YOU CAN’T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS

Reply
- Max The Cat says:
  
  March 30, 2010 at 2:03 am
  
  I’ve heard this comparison before, and it’s an unfair one. First off, in the case of a pedophile, the child is the victim, not the perpetrator. This is the case, whether the sexual act were “consensual” or not. An eleven-year-old can never consent to sex, he/she can only be conned into it or forced into it by an adult (who definitely knows it’s wrong).
  
  Let’s go over the fact in Jordan Brown’s case one more time.
  
  1. Jordan threatened to do exactly what he did in front of two of Kenzie’s cousins, on two occasions.
  
  2. He hid the shotgun under a blanket, to hide his actions from Kenzie’s daughter, after she saw him carrying the gun towards the bedroom earlier.
  
  3 He tried to get rid of the spent shotgun shell on his way to the school bus.
  
  4. He went to school and carried on as if nothing had happened – that alone makes him a dangerous person in my eyes. I don’t think I could act normal less than an hour after I blew a hole in someone’s head.
  
  5. He lied to the police, convincingly, for hours, about a phantom black truck on the property.
  
  6 He refuses to take responsibility for killing Kenzie to this day. He shows absolutely no sign of remorse, and I seriously doubt he is sorry.
  
  7. According to Judge Motto’s decision, he continues to bully and intimidate younger and smaller kids in Juvie Detention, just as he did before the murder.
  
  I suggest you read the entire text of Judge Motto’s decision Stormy – you’re stuck on this age thing, and in Jordan’s case it has no relevance. He’s a bad person, period, and given the chance, I know in my heart he will kill again.
  
  Reply
  - matthewrmt says:
    
    March 30, 2010 at 8:05 am
    
    Okay Max. I think you have won me over on this one. Like Stormy, I too, have been reluctant to dismiss the age of the perp as an extenuating circumstance; however, with everything laid out like this I can see what you have been trying to say.
    
    I still have issue with calling this perp’s behavior ‘adult’; but, I agree that he is definitely an ongoing danger to society. The lack of empathy demonstrated by Jr speaks to sociopathic tendencies that can’t really be fixed at this point. In other words, he is too old to cure–a bad seed through and through!
    
    Perhaps the juvenile penal system needs an update. It’s sole purpose should not be based on rehabilitation. (With the mental health work I’ve done with Juvie, I haven’t ever seen rehabilitation anyway!)
    
    Honestly, I don’t know what to do with this perp. I know I don’t want him continuing in society nor do I want him terrorizing the other juvies. He’d be eaten alive in adult prison–and waaaaay too much stress for the guards to have to keep safe. So, what do we do with him?
    
    Given the current options, I have to agree that charging him as an adult is the ONLY viable option!!
    
    BTW, Max, great write-up, interview, and insight on this case!
    
    Reply
  - vcbecky says:
    
    March 30, 2010 at 10:47 am
    
    I have nothing to add at this point to the thread, except that most everyone in this thread gives me hope for the future. I wish the whole world would catch up and stop putting their kids and themselves out as a sacrifice.
    
    I’m also posting because I like to hear the keys clack…
    
    Reply
  - SD says:
    
    March 30, 2010 at 2:19 pm
    
    It scares me to death to think that a boy this young is capable of everything he did. What scares me even more is what he may be capable of when he is older. He knew it was wrong…if not, why hide the gun under the blanket, why get rid of the casing, why lie to the police? It makes no sense to pull the age card or say he didn’t know what he was doing was wrong. I honelstly think his age makes it all so much scarier.
    
    Reply
- Steve says:
  
  March 30, 2010 at 5:09 am
  
  Age is arbitrary bullshit. When did we decide that “11″ is too young to commit an adult crime? 200 years ago, 11 year olds were working, 13 year old girls were married off…the average life span was 40 years. Stating that “11 is too young” is arbitrary and flies in the face of reason. He damn well DID know what he is doing. Too often we forget how smart kids are…unless he is mentally handicapped, he damn well knew what he was doing, and if the evidence is correct, he planned it. The little shit should never get out.
  
  Reply
- David Dietz says:
  
  June 26, 2010 at 12:57 pm
  
  A while back I was horrified to hear of an incident in Hawaii where a 13-year-old girl was gang raped by a bunch of the poor little darlings. People need to stop living in the “old days”, today 11-years-old is not as young as it used to be. “Kids” are very sophisticated today. Open your eyes, it’s experience that makes wisdom, not age, and young people today are very experienced.
  
  Besides, look at that creeps mugshot, you can see he’s an asshole.
  
  Reply
Mulch says:

March 30, 2010 at 1:03 am

Stormy we don’t want it both ways. Hell I would raher this had not happened.

the problem with your comparison is that he chose to kill this woman. And a child that is raped has no idea about what is happening to her.

My daughter is 12. She knows that killing is not right. She also knows that sex is something she is not ready for. She also knows why.

this boy had been hunting. Not a 20 guage is not the largest shotgun out there but it still can kill. He knew what would happen when you shoot somebody at close range. He knew the chances of surviving that are very slim at best yet he went ahead with it. After the fact he tried to cover his tracks and he lied to police.

He made grown up decisions.

Reply
stormy weathers says:

March 30, 2010 at 4:18 am

OK you fuckers I’ll throw my hands up…..You have me beat down on this one (and I’m man enough to admit it)

and your both probably right he was an evil little fuck and deserves what’s coming to him…….Too much evidence to back this up, I can’t argue it any more…….Grrrr you boys should start a debate team!!!

Next time Gadget!!!!!!

Reply
- Mulch says:
  
  March 30, 2010 at 4:49 am
  
  Dude I spent 4 years on a debate team in high school. Was fun showing up in boots and braces…..
  
  But it wasn’t in any way my intent to “beat you down” Not at all.
  
  Reply
  - stormy weathers says:
    
    March 30, 2010 at 5:02 am
    
    Beat down wasn’t right……Like Hank Williams said “I saw the light” ;)
    
    Reply
    - Mulch says:
      
      March 30, 2010 at 5:41 am
      
      PRAISE BE! HE HAS SEEN THE LIGHT!
      
      Reply
      - vcbecky says:
        
        March 30, 2010 at 10:48 am
        
        You guys fuckin’ kill me sometimes. Hehehehe!
Budgiegirl says:

March 30, 2010 at 6:01 am

“I hate to say I told you so….”

Do you really Max?

I don’t. Jeez, I LOVE it, and I have a sneaking suspicion you do too. ;->

Anyway, yes, I was also pleased with the judge’s common sense approach to the conflicting opinions of two experts. The psychologists should have both reached the same “discoveries”; i.e., the fact that Jordan doesn’t own up to his actions. You can have two different versions of the breed of bovine, but they still shit the same manure.

The judge realized that the defense psychologist did not address the troubling absence of responsibility in his “assessment” of Jordan, and therefore, his findings were (*just maaayyyybbbeee*) tailored to the defense strategy of claiming he didn’t do it, or, God forbid, they come up with a multiple personality defense or a fugue state defense.

And, just to thoroughly yank one’s logic chain, the theory that he’s too young to know what he’s done was the one the government of the day in the UK went with in the Bulger case. One idiot actually said that “no 10 year old is a murderer” (circa 1993) and in 2010, the idiot that is the UK Childrens Commissioner, Dr. Maggie Atkinson, actually said that it was wrong to prosecute the two boys as adults as they were only 10 years old. They may have murdered a 2 year old in a brutal and horrific manner, but “they were still children, let’s not forget.”

Well, DUH. Children who do absolutely heinous adult crimes are going to (and should) do adult time.

FYI – The ages at which people are considered criminally responsible for their actions throughout the world:
7 – Switzerland, Nigeria, S Africa
8 – Scotland, Sri Lanka
10 – England, Wales, Northern Ireland, Australia, New Zealand
12 – The Netherlands, Canada, Greece, Turkey
13 – France
14 – Italy, Germany, Bulgaria, Romania, China
15 – Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Czech Republic, New York (US), South Carolina (US)
16 – Spain, Japan, Texas (US), Poland
18 – Belgium, Luxembourg, most US states
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8566591.stm

With inDUHviduals like Dr. Atkinson in charge, is it any wonder that the British social services system is thoroughly fucked up? I’m sure she would be all for giving little Jordan some milk and cookies and helping him “cope” with the trauma he’s created, eh?

Reply
The Bosses Secretary says:

March 30, 2010 at 9:23 am

I still think the father should face charges for allowing an eleven year old access to loaded firearms. It’s fine for a kid to own one but definitely not fine to leave it unlocked and loaded under the little fuckers bed. Dad should face child endangerment charges at the very least. Talk about stupid! I know a lot of hunters with children who hunt and the guns are locked up after the hunting expedition for the specific reason that children are too immature to have access to loaded weapons at all times. Dad needs a little jail time too for being such an imbecile.

Reply
Ben says:

March 30, 2010 at 11:30 am

Charging a 5th grader as an adult goes too far. There should be a bright line rule somewhere, and I think 11 should be under that line.

Max, you repeatedly say that we should look at each set of facts on a case-by-case basis. I’m sure a six year old would know (at some level) that killing is wrong. A six year old could also try and hide evidence and show no remorse for a crime. If the facts here were absolutely identical but Brown was six instead of eleven, would you still try him as an adult?

All facts surrounding premeditated murder will be egregious. Of course Brown knew what he was doing was wrong, but I don’t think he completely comprehended the magnitude of his actions. An 11 year old hiding evidence and lying to the police does not show he has the capacity of an adult.

My 3 year old niece recently stole a candy bar from a store. She knew what she did was wrong. When confronted, she lied about it and tried to hide the candy bar (the “evidence.”) Should we lock her up for theft like we would an adult?

Reply
- vcbecky says:
  
  March 30, 2010 at 11:45 am
  
  Even if we locked up candy thieves (do we?), your niece would have gotten off with nothing more than a stern face and a reprimand because she is 3 and it’s just candy. If all Jordan did was palm an Abba Zabba, he would have gotten the same treatment as your niece.
  
  Some things are too big and too wrong to excuse under any circumstances. If Jordan were to be tried as a juvenile and released when he reaches 18, he would have gotten away with murder and he would have been raised in a very twisted environment. What kind of person do you think he’ll be at that point? Do you think he would have comprehended the magnitude of his actions, especially after that lesson? Would you want to live and raise your children next door to him? Would you want your daughter dating him? Would you give him his gun back?
  
  Reply
  - Mapplethorpe says:
    
    March 30, 2010 at 2:58 pm
    
    Hear, hear, vcbecky. Very well said indeed. I agree %100 on that statement. I can understand people being overly sensitive due to this kids age, but the crime is too great to dismiss as a juvenile mistake. Sometimes you just have to throw away the key on someone, and this is one of those times. I wouldn’t want to risk letting this broken egg loose on society either. The judge made a good call here, and vcbecky knocked it out of the park. The James Bulger murder and Westside Middle school shooting come to mind when I think about juvenile recidivism. Those ‘kids’ that were released after becoming adults, with new identities, back into society have ran into scrapes with the law since being released and continue to be a menace. Sometimes, little kids are truly broken, and do such horrendous things, that there is no way that they can ever be safely released. This is a prime example.
    
    Reply
Ben says:

March 30, 2010 at 11:57 am

Let’s say my niece stole an Ipod instead of a candy bar. Still petty theft, but here in California you can get up to 6 months in jail for that. Under a case-by-case basis with facts similar to Jordan Brown, you would lock her away for that.

7 years is no picnic. I think that at 18, after 7 years in prison it is absolutely possible that he would comprehend the magnitude of his actions (while he could not comprehend them at 11). I’m not saying we should automatically release him at 18, but have multiple psychiatrists/psychologists analyze him at that point, similar to some parole hearings.

Reply
- Ben says:
  
  March 30, 2010 at 11:58 am
  
  Typo – “it is absolutely possible that he COULD comprehend . . .” My apologies.
  
  Reply
- vcbecky says:
  
  March 30, 2010 at 12:30 pm
  
  No, I would not lock her away for petty theft. Give me a bit more credit than that, please. You cannot compare a case of petty theft to pre-meditated murder. You can’t compare apples and hand grenades. You can’t compare the Hamburglar to Charles Manson. Precedent set for a murder trial doesn’t apply to petty theft even in California. I live here too, fyi. I highly recommend Joe’s Sushi in Cerritos.
  
  Max’s “Case by case” applies to murder, not theft. Max was suggesting that these kinds of situations, and there have been more than just this one, be judged case by case. Of course children get more leeway which is why Max suggests there be no precedent set. This is too delicate a situation for that kind of broad thinking.
  
  Jordan Brown is another Mary Bell waiting to happen.
  
  What happens when we release him after his extensive psychoanalysis, and he commits murder again? Do we get a ‘do-over’ and just send him to live in prison at that point? I believe this is a case where we should err on the side of caution, put him in a psychiatric hospital and study him for the rest of his natural life. This is a serial murderer waiting for another opportunity. Why give him one? To test out his humanity? The risk isn’t worth it.
  
  Reply
  - Ben says:
    
    March 30, 2010 at 12:42 pm
    
    Okay – case by case on murder only. What would you do then if Jordan Brown was 6 years old instead of 11? A 6 year old can still lie to the police, show no remorse, and even hide evidence. Would you still try him as an adult for 1st degree murder and lock him away for good?
    
    Vcbecky, I do respect that you are willing to punish him on an incapacitation theory rather than retribution theory. And you’re absolutely right, I would not want to be anywhere near this kid even if multiple psychiatrists determine he’s fit for society. However, in my opinion, it still does not change the fact that he does not deserve life in prison for a murder committed in the 5th grade.
    
    I grew up near Cerritos, but now I live up north. I’m flying into OC in a few days and I’ll be sure to try Joe’s.
    
    Reply
    - vcbecky says:
      
      March 30, 2010 at 1:31 pm
      
      6 years old, huh? This is where ‘case by case’ comes in.
      
      I would investigate the child’s background. See if there are any factors like abuse, family history of homicide, extreme mental illness or parental drug use during pregnancy. Was he dropped on his head as a baby? Is his father Satan? Did he maniacally wielding a cleaver inside the womb?… stuff like that. Age doesn’t matter. Does this 6 year old have any living pets? Does he torture animals in his back yard? Is he abusive of his siblings or friends? Is he cruel?
      
      More to the point, is there evidence of premeditation or was this simply a crime of passion or childish curiosity? Was daddy killing mommy in front of the 6 year old, prompting the baby to shank him? The fact that Jordan was a hunter before the murder comes into play because it shows he understands what death is, and what bullets do. Does the 6 year old have reason to understand what death is like Jordan does?
      
      I don’t know for certain what I would do if I discovered a 6 year old had committed premeditated cold-blooded murder with no other motive than selfish jealousy, which is what Jordan did. I think I’d be inclined to do the same with a 6 year old as I’d like to do for Jordan – study him in an institution for his entire life so we can discover why children do these horrible things. That way he can give back to society by possibly helping to prevent future child-perpetrated homicides.
      
      I can tell you I’d hate to be the judge or jury in either case! What a freakin’ nightmare that would be!
      
      Reply
    - Max The Cat says:
      
      March 30, 2010 at 1:39 pm
      
      But he’s not 6 years old Ben. Why would we want to consider a hypothetical case which had a nearly zero chance of happening? The difference is mental capacity between a 6-year-old and an 11-year-old is so huge that the younger child would never get past the planning stage, IMHO. Jordan’s plan contained a certain amount of sophistication that I seriously doubt a 6-year-old is capable of matching, no matter how intelligent he/she is.
      
      However, for the sake of argument. If Jordan Brown happened to be six-years-old, and all other factors remained exactly as they are today, then yes, I would still want him to be tried as an adult.
      
      Your problem Ben is that you can get past this physical age thing. When you look at Jordan Brown, the first thing you see is an 11-year-old boy. When I look at him, I see a cold blooded murderer. His actions are the actions someone who knew what he was doing, and did his best to do it and not get caught.
      
      Look at it this way. If I told you a story about a guy who murdered a pregnant mother in her sleep, and didn’t mention the age of the offender, how would you feel about him/her?
      
      Reply
      - vcbecky says:
        
        March 30, 2010 at 1:43 pm
        
        I responded because Ben seems like a cool guy who’s willing to discuss this respectfully.
        
        Besides, when will I ever get to type “maniacally wielding a cleaver inside the womb?” and “prompting the baby to shank him” again? Missed opportunities suck!
      - Ben says:
        
        March 30, 2010 at 2:03 pm
        
        My only point is, where do you draw the line? A 6 year old could definitely do everything that Brown did in this case (hide evidence, lie to police, etc.) And there are cases on record of children younger than 10 murdering and taking affirmative steps to hide the crime or make it look like an accident.
        
        http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/11/national/main4591748.shtml Here is the story of an 8 year old who planned and methodically carried out the execution-style murder of his father because he had been spanked.
        
        http://www.sptimes.com/2005/06/02/Hillsborough/What_to_do_if_7_year_.shtml Here is a story of a 7 year old who killed his infant sister because he was jealous of her attention (much like this case). He lied to the police and tried to hide the evidence.
        
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kayla_Rolland Lastly, here is the story of a 6-year old who planned and killed Kayla Rolland.
        
        My point is, a 5th grader can scheme, plan, and hide evidence and still not appreciate the severity of his actions.
        
        I appreciate your response Vcbecky. You would do a case-by-case regardless of the age, which is a completely legitimate argument. I just don’t agree with it.
      - Max The Cat says:
        
        March 30, 2010 at 2:08 pm
        
        You did fine Becky – this isn’t my personal blog. I like Ben a whole lot myself. I wish everyone who disagreed with me had as much grace and class as he does. I even learned a few things from him about dealing with people with opinions contrary to mine.
      - Ben says:
        
        March 30, 2010 at 2:30 pm
        
        Thanks Max – I really appreciate that.
        
        As you’ve noticed, I only comment to an article when I disagree, which is less than 1% of the time. All of your posts/articles are excellent, fair to all parties, and very well written. And honestly, if this kid was 14 instead of 11, I would have no problems trying him as an adult.
        
        As a bleeding heart liberal in San Francisco, I seriously considered applying to the public defender’s office after law school to help the underprivileged with representation. However, after religiously reading this blog and speaking with the San Francisco DA regarding the Marjorie Knoller case, I don’t know if I could live with myself defending scum as described in your posts (even if they are entitled to a competent attorney.)
      - Max The Cat says:
        
        March 30, 2010 at 2:33 pm
        
        I’m aware of two of the tree cases you mention Ben. The eight year old who killed his Dad also shot his fathers friend, who was living in their home. There were allegation of abuse which apparently were long term and ongoing. The boy finally said “enough”. He got 8 years in the Juvie system I believe.
        
        The six-year-old who shot his classmate was a bad situation, caused mostly by the adults in his life. I think one adult ended up do a couple of years for manslaughter. I think the girl wasn’t specifically targeted, but just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
        
        The 7 year old sounds like he is seriously emotionally disturbed, and showed signs of violent behavior before. He needs counseling and Psychiatric help, not jail time
        
        Neither one of these cases came even close to approaching Jordan Browns situation. His crime was premeditated first degree murder, and nothing less.
  - Meaghan says:
    
    June 26, 2010 at 1:06 pm
    
    What do you mean when you saw Jordan is “another Mary Bell waiting to happen”? Because Mary Bell was released from custody at age 23 and has stayed entirely out of trouble in the 30+ years since then.
    
    Reply
    - ForlornW says:
      
      June 26, 2010 at 3:12 pm
      
      We should be so lucky that more juvenile murderers turn out like Mary Bell, who not only stayed out of trouble after release, but appears to have successfully raised an apparently well adjusted daughter.
      
      Reply
- Harley Quinn says:
  
  March 30, 2010 at 12:39 pm
  
  Did your niece tell people she was going to steal an ipod? Did she case the joint? Did she draw a map of what areas of the store don’t have security cameras and pocket it accordingly? If she premeditated a robbery then sure, punish her to the fullest extent that the law will allow. That is the equivalent of how Jordan plotted this murder. If he just pulled the shotgun one day and did it, it might be a different story. It might have been an accident or a case of rage that could be worked out in a psych facility. He planned this shit better than I plan my damn day.
  
  Reply
  - Ben says:
    
    March 30, 2010 at 2:12 pm
    
    This is definitely a fair point.
    
    Let’s say she did everything that Jordan did. She told her sister she would steal the Ipod, she hid the Ipod when contronted, she lied to her parents and the police, she had no remorse for her actions, and was generally a bully to other 3 year olds. I still don’t think she deserves jail b/c she doesn’t have the capacity to appreciate her actions, just like Brown likely did not have the full understanding and comprehension of his actions.
    
    I know others disagree, but I think there should be a bright line rule when it comes to being tried as an adult. And personally, I think an 11 year old elementary school child is not old enough to appreciate the severity of his actions. Trying a 5th grader as an adult is blatantly contradictory in my opinion.
    
    Reply
    - Harley Quinn says:
      
      March 31, 2010 at 10:05 am
      
      But by your logic, every 11 year old, or 3 year old is the same as every other 11 year old or 3 year old. A bright line rule will be an arbitrary criteria set and we will all just assume that every person of the age decided is the same. Not all 11 year olds are cold meticulous murderers, and not all cold meticulous murderers are 11 year olds. It should be a case by case evaluation.
      
      One big red flag is that an 11 year old who does something wrong and doesn’t understand the magnitude of what they’ve done: they will be sorry and they will be SCARED. They may not know why they’re sorry but they would know they’re in trouble and it would SHAKE them somehow. Jordan is completely unphased by what he did and what is happening to him as a result. Not because he can’t grasp it, he just doesn’t care. Unless he has the mental capabilites of a 5 year old he would feel SOMETHING and he doesn’t at all.
      
      Reply
  - Daughter of the Firmament says:
    
    March 31, 2010 at 4:54 pm
    
    And they say that it takes a village to raise a child….looks like the village should get off of Chatroulette and do its fuckin’ job.
    
    Reply
    - NavyCop says:
      
      March 31, 2010 at 4:55 pm
      
      No, no, no the saying goes “It takes a village to raise an IDIOT”
      
      Reply
      - Max The Cat says:
        
        March 31, 2010 at 5:05 pm
        
        Now see, I heard it was “It takes a child to raise a village full of idiots.”
        
        Who Knew?
      - NavyCop says:
        
        March 31, 2010 at 5:09 pm
        
        Yet another reason for me to say “Max is my shepherd, I shall not want for villians to condemn.”
Kitty LeClaw says:

March 30, 2010 at 12:25 pm

*applauds vcbecky’s solid reasoning*

Seriously, folks. “I was only 11″ is NOT a valid excuse for MURDER!!!

Regardless of how “icky” it might make us feel, Brown knew the consequences of his actions, but he went ahead and did it, anyway. He even tried to cover his tracks, which is a clear indication of the fact that he knew what he did was wrong. What a selfish, evil little boy!

As a society, I don’t think we give kids nearly enough credit. They are more than capable of handling simple cause-and-effect mental computations. If this weren’t true, wouldn’t there be a lot more kiddie killer cases to discuss here on PYSIH?

Reply
brent says:

March 30, 2010 at 1:23 pm

Can’t really add much to this thread that hasn’t already been said. I’m siding with the folks that say this kid should be tried as an adult. “Carried out with criminal sophistication”, “execution style killing”, “unprovoked”, “acted alone”, are just a few of the statements made by the judge. This kid knew what he was doing. Does someone really think not trying him as an adult so juvenile court can lose control of him in 9 years is a good idea. Would you want him spending the night at your house. His picture kind of makes me think of a future Charles Manson!

Reply
Angel de la muerte says:

March 30, 2010 at 3:00 pm

All the people that question whether he should be tried as an adult should ask themselves this question: what would you do if that kid did what he did to one of your kids??? Now one thing that bother’s me is that people still back him up under the age card. A hunter is a hunter no matter what age he may be… and he was one of them… I mean: if you know you can kill an animal with your gun then any one backing him up for being a kid should get examined because the answer is right there. The kid was killing for fun, he was a bully, he covered up evidence(ok this one’s childish true), still he had the guts to shoot point blank range at the head and that for me equals 2+2. he knew why he had a gun: to hunt(hunt=kill) and still shot point blank a person in the head(shot=hunt=kill)? What was he trying to do that he did not comprehend for his age??? Now In my country we have a lot of kid that are resolving to violent acts to make ends meat and we understood a long time ago that if you do the deed you should pay the price. he doesn’t deserve hell, he deserves a hell of a beatdown

Reply
jonathan krause says:

March 30, 2010 at 8:49 pm

to max cat: you can sit there and say whateve you want across your little computer but you are not here in new castle, pa. come here for a week and you shall see for yourself of what small town america is and how the justice sytem works here. there is a long list of cases that are unsolved but they were swift with the arrest of my nephew. did you ever think he was innocent? what happened to innocent before proven guilty? welcome to america right land of the free?

Reply
- dani says:
  
  March 30, 2010 at 9:00 pm
  
  it seems that he’s been proven guilty. he had the means, the motive and the ruthlessness to carry it out. also, a family who didnt listen when he made “idle” threats against his pregnant ‘stepmother.’ dont just go after the editor and main cat (haha) around here, why not choose to explain how he is innocent, who did it, and why he shouldnt be shown that consequences have actions? i for one am a big fan of the death penalty, and age 11 is a time when you know the difference between right and wrong, especially if you hunt and know that usually you shoot to kill
  
  Reply
- vcbecky says:
  
  March 30, 2010 at 9:01 pm
  
  Jonathan, there is absolutely no reason to insult Max! His computer happens to be GIGANTIC!
  
  Reply
  - jonathan krause says:
    
    March 30, 2010 at 9:14 pm
    
    i am not insulting max the cat. i just feel that hes making him look guilty all over this page do you think he’s going to get a fair trial? who is the jury going to be adults like you and i or 11-12 yr olds? because you should be tried by a jury of your peers. this is national news from a small town in pa. you say all the evidence well let me again tell you here in new castle there are so many cases unsolved that its odd to me that didnt look at anyone else. you ask is there a history of violence? YES i had to defend my sister jordans mother against his father numerous times there a PFA’s from many of these incidents. but nobody seems to look at that. i just cant believe this is a discussion. do you have children? i do and i love my family and yes i would welcome jordan into my home and around my children because i know him better than the media is portraying him. you say he commited actions of an adult so should be tried as an adult…theres reasons for juvenille court.
    
    Reply
    - dani says:
      
      March 30, 2010 at 9:22 pm
      
      juvenile court is a crock, a steaming pile of horse dung. as soon as they’re eighteen or twenty one, many times their records are expunged, or wiped clean. (look up the case of the two monsters who kidnapped a two year old boy, tortured him, then tied him to the train tracks so he would be run over and mutilated beyond belief, in the effort to hide evidence.) i have kids, and a brother who could have done something along those lines IF HE HAD NOT BEEN MORE AFRAID OF THE CONSEQUENCES. if it does somehow turn out the daddy dick was pulling jordan’s puppet strings, well you will have my apologies, but until then, my mind is made up. i teach my kids between right and wrong, let them know that movies and games arent real, and music doesnt influence your life. and i’m sure the reacting of the local PD was for 1) a notch on their belt and 2) to get a homicidal maniac behind bars (remember, it was two lives snuffed out). i do appreciate you mentioning the victims in a positive light, and hats off to you on that point
      
      Reply
      - Ben says:
        
        March 31, 2010 at 2:33 am
        
        ” . . .well you will have my apologies, but until then, my mind is made up”
        
        This sounds more like “guilty until proven innocent” instead of “innocent until proven guilty.”
        
        Mr. Krause. I am truly sorry for the turmoil surrounding your family and I extend my deepest condolences. It does seem like this child confessed to the crime though. Are there any other mitigating facts with your Nephew? Is there a particular reason why you think he didn’t do it?
    - David Dietz says:
      
      June 26, 2010 at 1:20 pm
      
      I’m sorry but a monster does not deserve a “fair trial”. How can you dream of welcoming such a monster into your home? Innocent children don’t do such things. I feel nothing for him, I want “rights” for the victims and protection for potential future victims. No one ever wants to believe that a human being could be beyond help and just no damned good, but many are exactly that.
      
      Look at that mugshot, look into those empty windows, do you want that person plotting against you in the dark bedroom down the hall?
      
      Reply
      - ForlornW says:
        
        June 26, 2010 at 4:33 pm
        
        Everybody deserves a fair trial. Everybody. A fair trial will result in justice.
        If you can’t advocate a fair trial for everyone you are advocating a monstrous act, and justice only for the chosen.
- Mulch says:
  
  March 31, 2010 at 1:12 am
  
  Dude. I mean Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.
  
  Where is the INjustice system different in a small town against that of a larger town?
  
  Should that little shit get withing 6 feet of my daughter I would beat him bloody.
  
  Reply
- Max The Cat says:
  
  March 31, 2010 at 7:45 am
  
  You’ve seen the list of evidence against your nephew Mr. Krause. Can you understand why I came to the conclusions I came to? And Jordan is being prosecuted by the State of Pennsylvania, not the Town of New Castle – they were just the arresting agency.
  
  I’m sorry, but I can’t get past the amount of planning that must of gone into this crime, and the effort he put into hiding his guilt. Innocent until proven guilty only applies in a courtroom, not when we’re discussing a case like we do here. I know all about Kenzie’s ex-boyfriend, and I know enough about criminal prosecutions to be confident the district attorney’s investigators looked at him very closely and found that he wasn’t a viable suspect.
  
  Remember, I don’t have a dog in this fight. I considered all the evidence with an unemotional, unbiased eye, and made my decision after a lot of thought. I don’t take what I do here lightly, I assure you.
  
  And yes, I do have kids – two grown daughters who to this point haven’t killed anyone. But if one of them did, I would love her and support her, but, if I knew she was guilty, I would never be her patsy, blaming others for the turmoil that she herself is truly responsible for. I’d expect her to take responsibility for her actions.
  
  You see, that’s what this is really all about. Jordan taking responsibility for what he did. If he had confessed at any point up until now, and showed some real remorse for killing Kenzie, I would have been all for him being tried as a juvenile. But he still denies what is obvious to just about everyone but his family, shows absolutely nor signs of being sorry for the murder or the pain he has caused his father and the rest of his family, and generally acted like nothing at all has changed. I’ve read Judge Motto’s decision and those are the facts according to him, not the media.
  
  So there it is. I can’t help the way I am, anymore than you can help loving and supporting your nephew Jordan. It may surprise you, but I want to be wrong, I really do. No one who claims to be a compassionate person would want things to be the way I see them. I hope some guy comes out of nowhere and confesses to the murder, and Jordan goes home tomorrow.
  
  If I’m wrong, no one will be happier about it than I.
  
  Reply
  - vcbecky says:
    
    March 31, 2010 at 11:03 am
    
    Yeah, what Max said. It would be wonderful to be completely wrong about Jordan Brown. I would love to have to apologize to him, to you and the rest of his family and anyone who read my posts.
    
    I don’t think you’re wrong to stand by Jordan. I would stand by my husband if he killed someone in cold blood. I’d stand by him through the entire court process and anything else that followed. I would be his rock whether he was guilty or innocent because I love him. If he was guilty, I would not coddle him about it or tell him it’s all o.k., but I would be there for him. You can do no less for someone you love.
    
    Reply
- Harley Quinn says:
  
  April 1, 2010 at 9:02 am
  
  Forget Max. I’ll come to smalltown PA. Can I stay with you? I’d love to observe the family that denies this little shits actions while they’re staring you right in the face. Why should you care? Kenzie wasn’t YOUR family was she. If he’d done it to one of your kids or your wife you’d be singing a different song about Jordan now. Do you know Diane Shuler’s husband? I think you guys would get along. I’m not sorry for you at all. Do you know who my condolences go to? The Houk family and those little motherless girls right now who are in that position because Jordan is a punk little bitch who figured out that stomping his feet didn’t get him his way anymore so he took matters into his own vicious hands. How dare any of you defend him. Unless you’re completely void of intelligence YOU KNOW deep down what he did. Denial is just a slap in the face to Kenzie’s little girls, her family, and loved ones. As cliche’ as it sounds, shame on all of you who would let him get by with what he did just because YOU don’t want to believe he was capable of doing it, when you know very well he did. It’s disgusting and if you’re going to continue to enable him in that way, you deserve hell too.
  
  Reply
  - jonathan krause says:
    
    April 6, 2010 at 9:54 pm
    
    yea you can come to small town PA and yea you can stay with me i have an extra room. I NEVER said that my sympathy didnt go to the Houk family. I feel for her family and her children as well. It is a tradgedy all the way around. Yes i will take hell also because thats where im at anyway. so anytime you r ready to come see this side of small town PA let me know, ill pick you up or meet you half way. let me just continue to inform you on the fact that you only know parts of the story and as it seems he is the only suspect but that doesnt imply he is the guilty party. the police dept destroyed the crime scene. if you look through crimes in new castle pa you will see other examples of the innocent being wrongfully convicted such as hank kimble and the guilty walking free such as mark strickler who killed a 19mo old boy (the same age as my son) mike roberts who killed someone with a bar stool…did you ever imagine the police just wanted someone to pay for this crime? in my eyes my nephew will always be innocent, if he is found guilty as an adult i dont feel he deserves life. if the juvenille justice system is made to reform juvenille criminals let them do it here.
    
    Reply
    - Harley Quinn says:
      
      April 23, 2010 at 3:14 pm
      
      And what if Jordan put the gun to the back of your 19 month old boys head and pulled the trigger because he wasn’t getting enough attention? Would he still be innocent in your eyes? Would you still not want him to be punished for the rest of his life? What if somebody did do that to your son (and no, I would never wish that upon anybody) and all of the evidence points to Jordan but you weren’t there so you don’t know. Would you cite the misguided convictions in PA’s history or would you be where I am, telling people to wake the fuck up, this boy murdered innocent people.
      
      There are wrongful accusations, and the guilty walking free EVERYWHERE. Don’t sit there and act like it’s a special thing for PA or that it’s so frequent that the odds of Jordan actually having committed this crime are slim to none. Evidence puts the gun in his hand, his finger on the trigger, and the bullet in Kenzie’s head. I can see your sympathy for the HOUK family is so strong since you DON’T EVEN KNOW HER NAME! I hope to god that was a typo and not an actual indication of your sincerity.
      
      Reply
- LilMissSunshine says:
  
  April 1, 2010 at 1:00 pm
  
  Mr. Krause,
  
  I am very sorry that you are so disillusioned to believe your nephew innocent. While I can understand unconditional love, I have no tolerance for selective blindness. Your nephew did not accidentally shoot someone while hunting, he did not get into a school yard fight and the kid hit his head and died, your nephew took a gun and shot a pregnant woman because he wasn’t getting his way. Could you imagine in another 5-10 yrs if his girlfriend broke up with him? Or if he didn’t make the team? I understand this kid is your family, but what about Kenzie and her family? What about her two innocent daughters who will now grow up motherless because Jordan had his panties in a bunch? I don’t want to point fingers, but maybe Jordan was never disciplined. Maybe Jordan was one of those kids that could “do no wrong” in his families eyes. Don’t blame Max because your nephew is a killer- Max didn’t buy him the gun. Max didn’t tell him to plot an innocent woman’s murder. That was all Jordan- all by his stupid little 11 year old self. Maybe you should be thanking your lucky stars that you didn’t piss Jordan off, hmm?
  
  Reply
- deedeebug95 says:
  
  April 3, 2010 at 1:54 am
  
  I am sorry for the terrible burden this crime has put on your family, unfortunately if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck….
  
  Reply
Oceanic says:

March 31, 2010 at 12:11 am

I knew how to shoot a rifle before I knew how to ride a bike or tie my own shoes, and I understood what death was by the time I was five. He should be tried as an adult. I like the idea of studying him in a maximum-security mental health facility. This kid is a sociopath, and studying him (with as much safety as possible) might enable LE and mental health professionals to be able to spot it early and maybe work on ways to counter it.

Reply
Rachelle says:

March 31, 2010 at 4:11 pm

I hope the little f-cker burns in Hell. He knew what he was doing, he knew what murder and death are, he knew enough to try to hide it. He killed two innocent people, I don’t care if he’s 11 or 51.

Reply
dani says:

March 31, 2010 at 5:38 pm

ben, what do you think is the case? is he innocent or guilty? i believe guilty. if it does come to light that someone else had a puppet masters hand in it, then i will apologize, but as of this moment, jordan looks to be screwed by his OWN actions

Reply
- Ben says:
  
  April 1, 2010 at 1:27 am
  
  This post is also in response to NavyCop’s post below.
  
  I agree. Max does a great job of posting hell-worthy people only when sufficient evidence is shown that they are most likely guilty (even pre-conviction). However, the law is still that someone is presumptively innocent unless guilt is shown beyond any reasonable doubt.
  
  I’m just saying though that a lot of posters in these forums seem to forget that. We are exposed to the worst scum on the history of the earth in these posts. However, there are extensive examples of overzealous DAs with unlimited resources unethically charging and convicting innocent people against Public Defenders who are overworked, underpaid, and with very little resources (in comparison to DAs).
  
  Look at the comment NavyCop posts below. He states that he’s “tired of people defending those who shouldn’t be allowed defense.” I really believe most people think this way going into a trial. The average jurist is already against the accused (esp. if the accused has a criminal history which is always admissible through some back door evidentiary exception.)
  
  Frankly, we do not see TRUE justice unless the Defendant has enough money to hire sufficient lawyers against the DA. That’s the only time we see of the rampant injustice against accused (see, for example, the Duke Lacrosse case.)
  
  Public Defenders are noble people who deserve a lot of respect. They are hated by the community, defend underprivileged people who cannot pay for representation, are frequently overworked and underpaid. EVERYONE deserves a defense, to either show innocence or to show facts that mitigate their crime.
  
  Reply
  - NavyCop says:
    
    April 1, 2010 at 1:41 am
    
    First. I am a she, not a he.
    Second “Look at the comment NavyCop posts below. He states that he’s “tired of people defending those who shouldn’t be allowed defense.” ”
    Stop prying apart what you think I mean, ben. I want the family members and idiots who come here looking for news of their convict relatives to stop defending them when they do not deserve defense. I am tired of your crap. in addition, I am just plain tired. been on shift for almost 32 hours straight.
    
    Reply
    - Ben says:
      
      April 1, 2010 at 10:22 am
      
      I apologize – didn’t mean to personally attack you (I wrote the post in haste.) I admit I did slightly twist your words and I was wrong to do that.
      
      Reply
      - NavyCop says:
        
        April 1, 2010 at 2:35 pm
        
        it’s all good, Ben. No harm no foul.
  - Mulch says:
    
    April 1, 2010 at 3:19 am
    
    Ben do you have the ability to pour piss out of a boot?
    There is NO law that says you are proven innocent untill proven guilty. that is bullshit. It is a concept but not a law.
    
    Now you talk about EXTENSIVE example of overzealous DA’s. Care to share that information with us? Yes I am calling your bullshit. Put up or shut the hell up. DA’s do NOT have unlimited resources. To think otherwise os just childish.
    
    “Look at the comment NavyCop posts below. He states that he’s “tired of people defending those who shouldn’t be allowed defense.” I really believe most people think this way going into a trial”
    
    By that statement alone shows me many things. You voted for Obama didn’t you? I’ll bet you vote the democratic ticket too. You watch the news on the TV and believe every disgusting word don’t you. My how you twist things out of context. Sorry won’t pass with me. Not for one second.
    
    Ben true justicedoes not exist. It has nothing to do with money. It has onyl to do with shithead left wing asshats fucking with a system that at one time did in fact work.
    
    “Public Defenders are noble people who deserve a lot of respect. They are hated by the community, defend underprivileged people who cannot pay for representation,”
    
    Here is you go really looney left. Same shit different jukebox. All the left wing has been screaming the same shit for so many years and always fail to see the real problem. the problem being that THEY (meaning you) have fucked with the system so fucking much that no person can really understand it enough to defend his/herself. THAT is the fucking problem. Until that problem is corrected you will always have this symptom to the problem.
    
    Reply
    - Ben says:
      
      April 1, 2010 at 11:02 am
      
      Mulch – “There is NO law that says you are proven innocent untill proven guilty.”
      
      I didn’t exactly say this. I said “someone is presumptively innocent unless guilt is shown beyond any reasonable doubt.” As an American with average intelligence (and as a lawyer), I can tell you this IS the law. This was established in Coffin v. United States, where the United States Supreme Court stated unequivocally that “[t]he principle that there is a presumption of innocence in favor of the accused is the undoubted law, axiomatic and elementary.” Now, jury instructions in every criminal matter in every state instruct that someone is presumptively innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
      
      Mulch – “Now you talk about EXTENSIVE example of overzealous DA’s. Care to share that information with us? Yes I am calling your bullshit. Put up or shut the hell up.”
      
      Examples: Duke Lacrosse case (DA Mike Nifong), Genarlow Wilson case, D.A. Terry D. McEachern, numerous acts by Alberto Gonzales, Charles Foti, etc etc etc. I could give you more examples and details of each, but I would be writing this post until next week. Here is a website (written by former prosecutors) that show bad prosecutors. http://bennettlawfirm.typepad.com/badprosecutors/
      
      About 5 years ago while in law school, I interned with the District Attorney who explicitly told me he became a D.A. to both A) put the bad guys in jail, or B) protect the underprivileged from overzealous D.A.’s. The cases I handled and the stories I read regarding overzealous D.A.’s with political agendas were appalling. Furthermore, it is unfortunate that the law does not do enough to punish unethical behavior from prosecutors.
      
      Mulch – “DA’s do NOT have unlimited resources.”
      
      D.A.’s have vast resources in comparison to public defenders, and sadly this is a fact. I know this as a result from working with both the District Attorney and the Public Defenders Office. Furthermore, to make matters worse, the average salary of a prosecutor is far higher than the average salary of a public defender.
      
      “Ben true justicedoes not exist. It has nothing to do with money. It has onyl to do with shithead left wing asshats fucking with a system that at one time did in fact work.”
      
      When did it work? Back in the early 1925 when people lynched and hung people from trees? Back in 1960 when there were no Miranda rights and “confessions” were routinely beaten out of people? And it has everything to do with money. The examples I gave above of overzealous DAs were only brought to light because the Defendants were rich enough to afford a proper defense or there was vast public outcry. SO MUCH of these cases get swept under the rug.
      
      I am not going to respond to your other ridiculous comments.
      
      Reply
      - Max The Cat says:
        
        April 1, 2010 at 1:55 pm
        
        How glad am I that I’ve been making a concerted effort to treat everyone more respectfully over the last couple of months, especially people I don’t agree with, otherwise I might have gotten really embarrassed the first time I responded to one of Ben’s comments.
        
        I like Ben. I like him alot. I don’t find him to be a bleeding heart. He has told me himself that he agrees with most of what is written here on PYSIH. But when he disagrees with something, he always lets us know.
        
        But not once has he expressed his opinion with anything less than respect. I’ve debated him several times, and I find him to be one of the most intelligent and genuine people I’ve ever gone up against, and that’s a rare thing on an Internet full of phony tough guys and pseudo intellectual assholes.
    - Ben says:
      
      April 1, 2010 at 12:29 pm
      
      Here is a great article written by a professor at a tier 1 law school who also was a former public defender. It illustrates examples of unethical prosecutors, people unfairly charged/convicted, and the failure to discipline these prosecutors.
      
      http://law.hofstra.edu/pdf/Academics/Journals/LawReview/lrv_issues_v36n02_CC3-Davis.pdf
      
      Reply
NavyCop says:

April 1, 2010 at 12:41 am

You know, I’m tired. I’m tired of people defending those who shouldn’t be allowed defense, I’m tired of children turning into murderers. I’m tired of all the hate and vile things that get tossed back and forth between opposing sides. I’m tired… Instead of just punishing the crimes, can we make a serious attempt at some attrition? Correction before the crime is committed? Not government funded education, but personal responsibility and consequences for our actions? I’m so tired of the senseless waste of life everywhere.

Reply
- Mulch says:
  
  April 1, 2010 at 3:46 am
  
  Until the left is kicked out and destroyed this will never change. It will only get worse.
  
  Yes I am going political so freakin sue me eh!
  
  i’m not going to sue you mulch my friend, but i am going to edit your post. i understand your frustration, but i have to treat everyone the same, or i’m not doing my job.
  
  -max
  
  Reply
Malik7 says:

April 1, 2010 at 3:16 am

This little boy did the crime. He should be ordered to do the time!

What gave him the right to kill two innocent people, especially one who wasn’t even born yet?! Let him burn in hell!

Reply
BeRich says:

April 1, 2010 at 10:08 am

I have mixed feelings about this, being a parent myself. But, what stands out to me is that this boy, as a hunter, KNEW what would happen to something if it was shot, BEFORE he shot this woman. He KNEW she would DIE if he shot her. Another thing that stands out is that this woman was his father’s girlfriend and a person can make the assumption he was jealous of her and her unborn son.

*sigh* I really don’t know what to think. But, the FACTS are clear. It’s sad this boy felt the need to commit such a horrible, unforgiveable crime, but, like I said he KNEW what would happen when he put that gun to her head.

Reply
- Ben says:
  
  April 1, 2010 at 12:17 pm
  
  This is absolutely true and a great point. With his hunting experience, he definitely knew that shooting her would kill her. And this fact definitely bothers me.
  
  However, the fact that he knew the results of his actions does not necessarily mean he understood the full ramifications. To a 5th grader who hasn’t hit puberty, shooting her might have meant the same as shooting a deer.
  
  And the jealousy argument bugs me. I think this tends to show how immature and childish he is rather than showing an adult motive.
  
  Reply
  - Harley Quinn says:
    
    April 1, 2010 at 2:38 pm
    
    “However, the fact that he knew the results of his actions does not necessarily mean he understood the full ramifications. To a 5th grader who hasn’t hit puberty, shooting her might have meant the same as shooting a deer. ”
    
    So wait, he shouldn’t be properly punished for what he did because he didn’t understand how much trouble he’d be in when he did it? A vicious double homicide is ok if you don’t realize the consequences? What about Kenzie’s daughters, and family? When Jordan is back on the streets at 18 how can anybody say to them with a straight face “Well, sure he killed your mom and your brother to be but he didn’t really understand how much trouble he would be in when he did it, so we couldn’t punish him beyond his expectations. Sorry.”
    
    Shooting her WAS the same as shooting a deer. When you shoot a deer IT DIES. He KNEW that. Then they likely went home and ate the deer later, and mounted the antlers on the wall. Perhaps Jordan assumed they would eat Kenzie, and hang her head over the fireplace. I guess that makes it ok.
    
    The jealousy thing doesn’t sway me at all. Adults well into their senior years commit similar crimes for the same reason. Should they not be punished as adults because they had immature motives?
    
    You want to set a finite rule for an arbitrary age in place but that wont work. No two 11 year olds are exactly the same. No two 40 year olds are. An 11 year old can plot and execute a noxious crime with an adult state of mind, and a 40 year old with the mental deficiencies of a 5 year old can gun somebody down because they wanted their comic book. So we let that 11 year old off because of an arbitrary number? And we sentence the mentally disabled adult to death because of how many years he was alive when he commited the crime?
    
    If a 22 year old male made threatening phone calls to your wife or daughter, then killed her out of jealousy, would you want him to pay for his crime? I should hope so. But his defense will come and say that his frontal lobe isn’t fully developed because that doesn’t happen until well into your 20′s so he couldn’t control the impulse to murder your loved one. If there were 12 people who believed that adulthood occurs at a finite age, he would be found not guilty. So even though he threatened to do so on more than one occasion, and even as he sneered at you in the court room, he gets off with a couple years. Is that ok with you? That’s the position that Kenzie’s family is in now. They know what he said, they know what he was like, but people who think that there should be a set random age limit are going to make sure they never get closure for what they’ve had to endure.
    
    Reply
    - Ben says:
      
      April 1, 2010 at 3:10 pm
      
      Excellent response – this made me think for a while.
      
      “Adults well into their senior years commit similar crimes for the same reason. Should they not be punished as adults because they had immature motives?”
      
      Honestly, I don’t believe adults with the mental capacity of an 11-year old should not be punished on a retribution theory. However, unlike an 11-year old, a full grown adult is extremely unlikely to change in the future and actually realize the extent of their actions. For that reason, I would lock that adult up on an incapacitation (societal protection) theory. I also support this on deterrence grounds.
      
      Your other point comparing an intelligent 11 year old to a childish 40 year old is completely legitimate. Some 11 year-old are definitely old enough to understand their crimes and maybe should be tried as an adult. However, I just see too much room for abuse and improper justice. Most elementary school kids do not understand the complete severity of their actions.
      
      Some 20 year olds are mature enough to have a glass of wine at dinner. Some 17 year olds have enough mental capacity to engage in consensual sex with an adult. However, we develop hard age limits to protect the majority. I think the same applies here.
      
      I’ve said my spiel. I’ll try not to repeat myself over and over anymore.
      
      Reply
    - Ben says:
      
      April 1, 2010 at 3:11 pm
      
      Sorry – typo again. I really should review my posts before I press submit.
      
      ** Honestly, I believe adults with the mental capacity of an 11-year old should not be punished on a retribution theory.
      
      Reply
  - jonathan krause says:
    
    April 6, 2010 at 10:16 pm
    
    how did he hide anything? they found the weapon, they found the blanket, they found the shell casing but they never found blood on jordan. if he shot her at close range wouldnt there be blood all over him…his clothes, his hair? if you shot a pumpkin or a watermelon there would be pieces of it all over. nobody knows how big the room was, at close range there would be blood on him…he had no time to take a shower. there is no dna evidence and there is no ballistic evidence. after a full year he still hasnt admitted to anything…don’t you think he would have by now if he thought it meant he would get to go home? if he thought that would make it possible to live his life again. he has never changed his statement. so please tell me what he hid?
    
    Reply
    - Max The Cat says:
      
      April 7, 2010 at 12:28 am
      
      Don’t try and play the semantics game with me Mr. Krause. He HID the shotgun under the blanket so Kenzie’s daughter couldn’t see it, after she saw him heading towards her mothers bedroom the first time with it. He took the expended shell and tossed it of the path on his way to the school bus – again, Kenzie’s daughter saw him take something out of his pocket and throw it away, right where police found the used shell. Sound like he was trying to HIDE evidence again. These two things are pretty damning in my book.
      
      The expended shell was matched to Jordan’s shotgun, which had recently been fired. Kenzie was shot with a shotgun exactly like Jordan’s shotgun. That sounds an awful lot like ballistic evidence to me. And don’t forget the mysterious burn hole in the blanket.
      
      Oh yes, since we’re playing semantics here. He lied to cops about the black truck for hours, sending then off on a wild goose chase. What is a lie but an attempt by a person to HIDE the truth.
      
      I know enough about Forensics to believe he was far enough away from Kenzie’s head to not get hit with any blood, if there even was any – it was a low power 20 gauge shotgun, so it probably would have left a hole and little else. I’m guessing here, since I haven’t seen the autopsy report.
      
      Did you read judge Motto’s decision sir? It’s because Jordan refuses to admit he did this that makes him so dangerous. The state’s psychologist said it, the judge said it, and I’ve been saying it all along.
      
      Reply
      - NavyCop says:
        
        April 7, 2010 at 12:34 am
        
        *grovels in humble worship of Max* You took the words right out of my mouth and made them coherent!
      - Mulch says:
        
        April 7, 2010 at 12:59 am
        
        Max…….MAX I wanted this clueless wonder. Damn you stoll ALL of my thunder. OH well
        
        @Kraus you have no idea about weapons. A 20 guage is NOT a 12 guage. And when yu fire a 20 guage at close range things don’t eplode like in the movies.
        
        I own 2 shotguns of that calibre. Love shooting them.
      - Max The Cat says:
        
        April 7, 2010 at 7:44 am
        
        Sorry Mulch – but it helps to know I was right about the shotgun. You know a lot more about firearms than I do.
        
        Next time, I’ll leave Jonathan for you. I’m getting tired of repeating myself anyways. Maybe you can talk some sense into him, because I’m failing badly.
    - Malik7 says:
      
      April 18, 2010 at 9:35 am
      
      He told some of his friends and classmates that he was planning to do it. One of them told his dad and the authorities.
      
      That makes him liable. Plus, wouldn’t his fingerprints be all up on the rifle? I would think so.
      
      Plus I think it was said that one one his sisters saw him with the rifle. He was putting it back.
      
      DNA doesn’t neccisarily have to be used here. There is more than enough evidence otherwise to incriminate him and put him away for a very long time. I’m pretty certain that the woman’s blood is being used anyway as evidence.
      
      All of the things that happened on that ill-fated morning puts him right at the scene of the crime. Even if he IS or WERE to ever deny anything, there is still enough hard-core evidence to find him guilty and convict him. He doesn’t have a leg to stand on!
      
      Reply
LilMissSunshine says:

April 1, 2010 at 12:40 pm

Point 1 for the good guys. Look, I understand this lil piece o’shit is a child, but he took 2 lives that day and HID it after the fact. Maybe he shouldn’t serve life without parole, but this kid definately doesn’t deserve to get out of prison on his 21st birthday either.

Reply
- Malik7 says:
  
  April 18, 2010 at 9:47 am
  
  I don’t think that he will.
  
  And BTW, I think that the blanket was folded and used to try to muffle the sound of the rifle as he pulled the trigger. That might explain why there was none of her blood splattered on him.
  
  This little boy might have comitted was he thought was the perfect crime, but let’s see the expression on his face when the jury hands down the verdict of guilty and the judge sentenses him to life in prison without parole!
  
  This case is all to powerfully familiar with and similar to the one involving Chistopher Pittman! Remember that one? He shot both his parents in cold blood at only 12 years old, set the house on fire to make it look like and accident and them he fabricated claims that a black man kidnapped him and his dog!! Then he blamed it on the medicine that he was taking for manic depression.
  
  Reply
  - Malik7 says:
    
    April 18, 2010 at 9:48 am
    
    His grandparents, I meant to say.
    
    Reply
matt says:

April 16, 2010 at 10:57 am

I want to know why a 11-12 year old boy had his own shot gun, and why he was apparently free to use it whenever he wanted?????

The founding fathers would be rolling in their graves if they realized that THIS is how people are taking advantage of the right to bear arms.

Reply
- Malik7 says:
  
  April 18, 2010 at 9:20 am
  
  His dad gave it to him the Christmas before the shooting for hunting practices. And he should be held liable for it as well. Because you just don’t give ANY child of yours a firearm for Christmas, much less anytime else!!
  
  This little boy god mad at his stepmom just because he didn’t like her, so in a violent fit of rage, he friggen killd her in cold blood!!! He killed her and her unborn child as though it were for free. he’ll have plenty of time to think about it behind bars because just like Sherman Burnett Jr., his life is over before it even begins.
  
  We’ll see how he feels to be caged up for a long time and can’t see the streets ever again!
  
  Reply
- mulch says:
  
  April 18, 2010 at 9:46 am
  
  Bullshit Matt. Noting but bullshit. Do you have an inside line to the founding fathers? No you do not and niether do I. So don’t even try this bullshit.
  
  Reply
  - Ben says:
    
    April 23, 2010 at 2:04 pm
    
    I agree with Matt. I am strictly in support of gun control. I’ve avoided this issue with you b/c I think it was tangent to the major issues in this case. However, when you want to debate it, let me know.
    
    Reply
Breian says:

April 21, 2010 at 8:03 pm

Kenzie was my cousin and I think you should think of it as if it were your child and your grandchildren going through this. You haven’t been here to see the family and what they are going through. Yesterday would have been Kenzie’s 28th birthday and instead of her girls having a party for her they had to go to the cemetary to tell her happy birthday. They shouldn’t have to go through this. Kenzie was a good person and a loving mother and didn’t deserve any of this. He deserves everything he gets.

Reply
- Harley Quinn says:
  
  April 23, 2010 at 3:24 pm
  
  I am so sorry for you and your family for having to go through this. I cannot fathom what this must be like for you, and honestly I hope I never know. I’m so sad for you that you do. I hope it helps even just a little bit, knowing that there are a lot of us out there who support you and your family and don’t want this little bastard to see the light of day ever again for what he’s put you guys through. There honestly aren’t words to give the proper sincere condolences I would like to give to you. None of them would do it justice.
  
  Reply
- SD says:
  
  April 23, 2010 at 4:07 pm
  
  I am also so sorry for everything your family has gone through. My thoughts are with you all.
  
  Reply
- Max The Cat says:
  
  April 23, 2010 at 4:17 pm
  
  Yes, thank you Breian for reminding us all who is really suffering here – Those two little girls who had their mother stolen from them in such a violent fashion. While everyone worries about what will happen to poor, poor Jordan, I see little if any concern about what’s going on with Kenzie’s daughters. Certainly not from the Browns. Even when Jordan’s dad was interviewed I don’t believe he had any words for the children that were supposed to become his stepkids.
  
  I hate this case, and I hate that I’ve become the resident expert on it. But I can’t let it go, and I guess I’m destined to see it through to the end. I also realize that I have nothing to complain about compared to your family Breian, and my heart goes out to all of you.
  
  Reply
mike lindler says:

May 4, 2010 at 6:02 pm

As much as I hate to say it, I think they ought to sentence the heartless little bastard to death. Anyone that young who could do something like this doesn’t deserve to live. He’s not human.

Reply
stcroix says:

June 7, 2010 at 5:26 pm

That wicked, evil, diabolical fat fucker was angry because he had to give up his bedroom to make way for the baby! Read page 16 of the court’s order. While he was locked up they had to let him play sports with older children because he bullied the kids his age. They need to teach him how NOT to bully instead of putting him in situations where he CAN’T bully. I think he is a sick little fucker who will grow up to be a sick big fucker. Lock him up and throw away the key!
May Kenzie rest in peace.

Reply
Frozen says:

June 7, 2010 at 7:27 pm

He looks ugly-evil..

Reply
Meaghan says:

June 26, 2010 at 1:10 pm

What bothers me a lot is that this country is so quick to try juveniles as adults, constantly lowering the age at which this can be done, but at the same time RAISING the age that juveniles can do anything else (drive, have sex, etc). Why is a teenager a little, immature child until they commit a crime, and then suddenly they’re an adult?

Reply
T. Much says:

July 3, 2010 at 4:55 pm

We abhor child abuse in the 21st Century. We levy massive sentences against anyone who dares to question our unshakable belief in the innocence of childhood.

And it seems, incredibly, that some of us will seek to apply the same penalties to children themselves, if they dare shake the status quo.

Kids are complicated. They are individuals. They’re not a homogenous lump of sweetness and good – But each individual young person can learn to be better, they have a greater capacity to ‘learn their lesson’ at their age.

“Childhood” is a cliched, stereotypical myth that some people (here and elsewhere) hold dear with irrational intensity.

There is no logic in punishing a small boy with a cruelly nasty prison sentence – just in order to preserve the greater innocence of other children (Or even worse, to preserve the popularity of a desperate prosecutor).

It is certainly not a case, nor a crime, to be left unpinished. But if you egregiously punish a child for the sake of some current political agenda?

Forget the kid, may God have mercy on YOUR souls.

And I don’t say that lightly.

Reply
- vcbecky says:
  
  July 3, 2010 at 6:00 pm
  
  For some ‘political agenda”? WTF are you talking about? This has nothing to do with a political agenda. This kid is a cold-blooded murderer who puts no value on the life he took, and he should be removed from society for the sake of safety and justice. What part of that do you not understand?
  
  Jordan Brown didn’t ‘shake the status quo’ and quite honestly that’s an idiotic thing to say, T. Much. This little monster shot a pregnant woman in the back of her head with full knowledge of what bullets are for, and then he tried to cover the evidence.
  
  It seems to me that YOU are the one who is holding on to some false sense of innocent childhood, not us. He did what he did with malice aforethough.
  
  We’d imprison an adult who did the same thing, so why should a child get off any easier when the evidence aims to premeditated, cold-blooded murder? What about the two lives he took, one of which was more innocent by virtue of age than his own?
  
  Look up the definition of “Hypocrisy”, then re-read your own post. Amazing how the language seems to have a word to fit every occasion…
  
  Reply
  - Max The Cat says:
    
    July 3, 2010 at 6:21 pm
    
    Way to go Becky. Well said. You’ve gotten better than me at this, you know that?
    
    Reply
- Max The Cat says:
  
  July 3, 2010 at 6:15 pm
  
  Well thanks so much for that gift of mercy T. Much. I feel so much better now. Too bad Jordan never learned anything about mercy – but then, it takes a conscience to have mercy, doesn’t it, and it’s obvious that this little psychopath doesn’t have one.
  
  Jordan Brown is a rare phenomena. His psychopathy makes it possible for him to commit adult crimes without any sense of guilt or remorse. He’s a child in age only. To this day, he has yet to admit the he murdered Kenzi Houk while she slept. Jordan Brown is a dangerous human being and needs to be locked up for the rest of his life, for OUR safety. That what I’ve been saying since the beginning of this case.
  
  The cases of most kids who kill almost always involve some type of mitigating circumstances; physical or sexual abuse, neglect, bullying. These children deserve a second chance. But Jordan Brown killed in cold blood, because he was jealous of the unborn baby, and the attention that Kenzi got from his father. He conceived a plan, and carried out the plan. That plan involved Kenzi dying, and Jordan getting away with killing her. His big mistake was leaving a witness, or he very well may have gotten away with it. All Jordan Brown deserves is a lifetime reservation in a 6 by 9 cell.
  
  And I don’t say THAT lightly.
  
  Reply
- justjaney says:
  
  July 3, 2010 at 11:02 pm
  
  the sad thing is T, I really believe that YOU think your right
  
  “There is no logic in punishing a small boy with a cruelly nasty prison sentence – just in order to preserve the greater innocence of other children”
  
  …and that’s kinda scary…
  
  jj is very glad she lives all the way over here….
  
  Reply
weston says:

September 17, 2010 at 11:11 am

he should be punished by scaphism, which execution is after the following manner: Taking two boats framed exactly to fit and answer each other, they lay down in one of them the malefactor that suffers, upon his back; then, covering it with the other, and so setting them together that the head, hands, and feet of him are left outside, and the rest of his body lies shut up within, they offer him food, and if he refuse to eat it, they force him to do it by pricking his eyes; then, after he has eaten, they drench him with a mixture of milk and honey, pouring it not only into his mouth, but all over his face. They then keep his face continually turned towards the sun; and it becomes completely covered up and hidden by the multitude of flies that settle on it. And as within the boats he does what those that eat and drink must needs do, creeping things and vermin spring out of the corruption and rottenness of the excrement, and these entering into the bowels of him, his body is consumed. When the man is manifestly dead, the uppermost boat being taken off, they find his flesh devoured, and swarms of such noisome creatures preying upon and, as it were, growing to his inwards.

Reply
- Katrina says:
  
  January 13, 2011 at 2:40 pm
  
  uhhh…eww..
  
  Reply
lawstudent2256 says:

October 8, 2010 at 12:12 pm

I went to Jordan Brown’s decertification hearing. He may be too young to be considered a sociopath in the eyes of the law, but trust me, he is. While the prosecution is tearing down the defense’s best witness and his lawyers are squirming in their seats, Brown was just sitting there staring at the guy. There is no fear and there is no remorse. By now he knows what this could come to, the kid should at least be a little afraid of the outcome of the trail. And he is definately old enough to realize that if his lawyers are worried, he has serious reasons to be afraid too. I say he needs to be tried as an adult and they need to lock him up and throw away the key.

Reply
- VCBecky says:
  
  January 13, 2011 at 12:18 pm
  
  This is an interesting post. I’m sorry I didn’t see it sooner. Thank you.
  
  Reply
- Max The Cat says:
  
  January 13, 2011 at 1:50 pm
  
  lawstudent2256, you are a breath of fresh air for this old, broken down editor today. I’ve been holding my own against the constant barrage of misinformation coming from the Brown camp aimed at our article on Jordan, so getting some good news from a reliable source is greatly appreciated.
  
  I agree that Jordan Brown is not your average 12-year-old boy, and that people need to drop their preconceptions about age when discussing whether or not he committed the murder of his stepmother-to-be. It was obvious from his mugshot that something was missing in this kid. He’s got eyes like a shark, and if you look into his dead eyes you can see that nothing is looking back at you. He’s the scariest 12-year-old I’ve ever encountered, that’s for sure.
  
  Reply
Stone says:

January 28, 2011 at 10:33 am

I read this this morning about this case. I wasn’t sure if you’ve already seen it. http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/27/pennsylvania.boy.double.homicide/

Lawyer seeks juvenile court for boy, 11, accused in woman’s death

Reply
Abram says:

February 1, 2011 at 2:26 pm

I repeat;
“Last night JC posted a comment to January 25th‘s “Oral Arguments” asking if there is a chance that Jordan Brown will be acquitted and the short answer is “Yes, eventually.”
http://wandervogeldiary.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/box-of-sand/“

Reply
- Max The Cat says:
  
  February 1, 2011 at 3:42 pm
  
  Oh sure, I’ll take the word of this website. Dan Daily is so biased against Law Endorsement and the prosecution that it’s almost laughable. He’s made all kind of claims about access to information unavailable to the public, yet produces no evidence. If he was any more in bed with the the Brown family, he’d have to demand a wedding ring, and his remarks about the Houks are, in a word, despicable.
  
  I spent a couple of hours reading some of the drivel on this website, and it’s obviously Dan Daily has a personal thing with the Lawrence County officials, and has no credibility whatsoever.
  
  Reply
  - Abram says:
    
    February 1, 2011 at 5:15 pm
    
    Read ‘box of sand’ please, and show me where it is drivel!
    
    Reply
    - Max The Cat says:
      
      February 1, 2011 at 7:09 pm
      
      I have read it Abram, as I stated in my comment. Anyone with an open mind can see that Dan Daily has a hard on for Lawrence County Law Enforcement and is exploiting the Jordan Brown case as a means of forwarding his own personal vendetta. Of course the Browns, desperate to help Jordan, fell for this guy’s line hook, line and sinker.
      
      Take for example his take on the murder weapon. Does he honestly think that law enforcement could mistake a shotgun wound for a one caused by a handgun? Especially a experienced medical examiner? In one article, he tries to prove that it must have been a handgun that caused the fatal wound, and in another, he lambastes the CSI’s because there are over 100 missing pellets from Kenzie’s wound, meaning she was killed with a shotgun. Well, which is it Dan? And I mean he quotes supposed ballistic reports to support both cases – that just isn’t possible. That was the point when I knew he was full of shit.
      
      I don’t feel like going over this again with another narrow minded supporter of Jordan Brown, but I will if I have to Abram. Everything we’ve written in our stories or I put in one of my comments has it’s basis in fact, through police reports or from interviews with law enforcement. I have yet to see any concrete proof of any of the claims made by Jordan’s supporters, and I don’t expect you to be any different – but I hope I’m wrong.
      
      Reply
      - Abram says:
        
        February 1, 2011 at 9:58 pm
        
        Your very kind to offer to go over all this again, but that won’t be necessary.
        There are plenty of innocent people who went to jail based on police reports and police interviews. I’m not going to count on the police or their witnesses for the whole truth or for interpreting it.
        You seem to see thinks in black and white – very matter of fact.
        Children are the product of society they were raised in. They are not monsters or devils from the start. If they do a terrible act I do not and cannot hold them responsible 100%. If it was member of my family killed I wouldn’t be holding an eleven year old entirely responsible.
        If Jordon did it, which I don’t believe yet, from what I’ve read I’d be angry as hell at his father. Sure guns don’t kill just like leaving your house unlocked doesn’t cause robbery.
        Why don’t you share some more of your insights with us about what you read in ‘box of sand’, Max.
      - VCBecky says:
        
        February 1, 2011 at 10:14 pm
        
        Children are a product of many factors, including environment. Nature vs. Nurture is an old argument here.
        
        If Jordan is proved innocent, there will be mea culpa’s on this page and much rejoicing. Max and I would have to vie for first in line.
      - Abram says:
        
        February 2, 2011 at 7:08 am
        
        VCBecky that is great but we could all be more considerate from the get go. Please do not let other factors in a child’s life reduce our responsibility to them or forgive our actions or inactions. It is just too important.
        
        Finally, about the adult system and juveniles here is a quote, “From Paul Henry’s hourly scores and other reports from his counselor and guards, we can see that the kid is making a diligent effort to do what is expected of him. He has been described as “impressive” by compassionate and ethical prison staff members. We are encouraging him to be a “model prisoner,” and we are pleased to learn that he is doing his best to learn the rules and conform.
        
        But here is the troubling thing, and we see it in the circumstances surrounding Monday’s dining hall write-up. The guard who wrote him up overreacted and, in front of forty people, screamed at Paul Henry: “I’m gonna write you up!” Our source told us that the guard acted in an unprofessional and very immature way, but that Paul Henry apologized right away and was the only “real man” in this incident. Our source told us that this guard and others are “doing everything possible to find fault with Paul Henry.” They are looking for ways to trip up the kid and make things difficult for him. They want to bring him down.
        http://wandervogeldiary.wordpress.com/2011/02/02/slippery-slope/
      - Max The Cat says:
        
        February 3, 2011 at 11:04 am
        
        I like you Abram, I really do. In spite of the sarcasm that floats right below the surface in some of your comments to me, I think you’re sincere. But I also think you, and anyone else who reads websites like Dan Daily’s, are well meaning suckers. I’m sorry, but I’ve learned to look for certain red flags to warn me to take what I read in a website with a grain of salt, and this guy has it in spades. In this case, we have the unnamed “our source”, who not only provides information but also passes moral judgment on his observations
        
        “Our source told us that this guard and others are “doing everything possible to find fault with Paul Henry.” They are looking for ways to trip up the kid and make things difficult for him. They want to bring him down”
        
        That’s another red flag – Why would they want to do that. Why this great conspiracy to bring down one 12-year-old kid? Where’s the evidence? Sounds like someone is watching too much TV.
        
        And before you start, this kid probably doesn’t belong in and adult prison. Whatever happened to sending kids like this to a juvenile facility until they’re 18 or 21, and then transferring them to an adult prison if necessary?
      - VCBecky says:
        
        February 3, 2011 at 2:02 pm
        
        With respect, Abram you missed my point entirely. I don’t think Jordan is innocent. I think Jordan is a psychopath who really needs to be put away and studied. I doubt an apology from me, Max or anyone else who believes in his guilt, will ever be necessary. Of course I hope it is, but I doubt it.
        
        In saying that I would be first in line to apologize him if he is shown to be innocent, what I am really saying is that my apology would actually be more a ‘thank you’ to him for restoring my faith in innocence. I should have been more clear.
      - Abram says:
        
        February 3, 2011 at 7:00 pm
        
        Thank you Max.
        There you go again being ‘matter of fact’. You can give the guards the benefit of doubt or so it seems, try giving the writer some. He might have intended to put “It seems” in front of that sentence.
        
        Question, If someone shoots a shotgun at point blank at another will there be blood splatter and if so where is it going to land?
      - Abram says:
        
        February 4, 2011 at 11:24 am
        
        VCBecky, I didn’t miss your point. How did you conclude that and that which you imply, that I thought you considered Jordan innocent?
        What is going on with Jordan the past two years is going to severely affect the rest of his life, especially since he is young and still developing. What if he is acquitted or found innocent? His life put under extreme duress and possibly ruined. On the other hand if he is found guilty, off to jail he goes or in this case, stays. Wouldn’t it be better to prevent or at postpone the ruination of a life, at least until after a guilty verdict?
      - VCBecky says:
        
        February 4, 2011 at 12:08 pm
        
        Life treats everyone differently, Abram. Sometimes, it is unjustly cruel. That may sound callous, but if you look at it from a realistic perspective, that’s exactly what it’s all about.
        
        If he is innocent, I will have no regrets up to that point because the law is being carried out the way it should be. When someone is murdered and you are the primary suspect – so ‘primary’ that they actually lock you away – it is for your own safety and that of the people around you.
        
        If you want to play “What If”, what if he is guilty?
      - Max The Cat says:
        
        February 4, 2011 at 1:06 pm
        
        What’s “matter of fact” about my comments. I thought I was pretty specific about what I was saying – That this writer likes to present rumor and gossip as fact. He then draws outlandish conclusions from those “facts”, without the benefit of any real evidence.
        
        As far as giving the writer the benefit of the doubt – well, I don’t know about your experience with writing, but when I write an article, what you read is what I meant to say. I don’t expect people to give me the benefit of the doubt if I make an untrue or unfair statement, I take responsibility for it. I always believed that it’s supposed to work that way – Say what you mean, and mean what you say.
        
        I don’t know what you’re asking me as far as the blood evidence – I know that Sarah Johnson blew her mother’s head clean off, yet she had no blood on her person or clothing. There is so much going on when a firearm is discharged into a human body that many things can happen, depending on the circumstances. I haven’t seen a picture of the crime scene, so I really can’t comment on specifics.
Sherry Rojas-Fondal says:

February 1, 2011 at 3:40 pm

Will they hurry up and throw the switch to the electric chair already? They would be giving this little brat what he deserves!

Reply
- VCBecky says:
  
  February 1, 2011 at 5:11 pm
  
  BAHAHAHA! Sherry, you are so evil! Nah, I think he’s of more use as a research specimen than a piece of burned bacon.
  
  Reply
  - Sherry Rojas-Fondal says:
    
    February 1, 2011 at 7:01 pm
    
    LOL so true
    
    Reply
Lauren Griffiths says:

May 29, 2011 at 8:36 am

He’s a sociopathic little shit with no place in normal society, ever. Take it from someone who has watched a family friend grow up to be more and more of a waste of space as he’s grown- hurting animals and smaller kids as a small child to never taking responsibility for totalling his new cars multiple times and critically injuring his friends as a teen, and he’s not getting better- he’s getting worse. Kids like this, nay, PEOPLE like this cannot be rehabilitated, they need to be remobved permanently in order to reduce any further damage.
Little fucktard. Somebody needed a good fucking hiding when he was younger and never got it, obviously. Shame on that entire family for supporting him and ignoring the warnings.

Reply
Ruby says:

January 27, 2012 at 12:52 pm

Another Ricky Smyrnes coddled by Drunk- Ms. Nita who rubbed his head after he beat up children.

Reply
Lillith says:

March 5, 2012 at 10:04 pm

Frankly, I remember when I was 11. I hope that most of us here do. I know when I was 11 I knew that when something died, it was dead and gone. I also knew at 11 that firearms could be used, like knives, ropes, and most household objects, to kill people. Hmmm…so either I was an exceptionally bright 11 year old that realized that if you shot a person with a gun they would probably die and stay dead (and somehow knew this without testing that theory), or this kid just thinks that life is a video game. Now push reset and step mommy and baby brother comes back….
GAME OVER! This is reality. I don’t care if you’re 11 or if your 111. If you’re old enough to pull a gun and use it on a person, then you’re old enough to be adequately punished for your crime. Try him as an adult? Hell yes! Death sentence? Not this time. Given his age I’ll be a bit nicer this time. LWOP. Preferably in an asylum, because this kid obviously has severe issues.

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