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    • UPDATE: Francis Hernandez

    HERNANDEZ GUILTY ON ALL CHARGES
    excerpts from an article by Carlos Illescas – The Denver Post

    CENTENNIAL — Arapahoe County jurors today returned guilty verdicts in 18 criminal charges against Francis Hernandez, the man accused of causing a car accident that killed three people in 2008.

    Hernandez was charged with 19 criminal counts, including vehicular homicide, leaving the scene of an accident involving death, and child abuse resulting in death related to the deadly crash at an Aurora Baskin-Robbins shop.

    After the verdict, Arapahoe County District Court Judge John Wheeler found Hernandez guilty of the 19th charge, driving while under restraint, in a trial before the court.

    Hernandez faces more than 100 years in prison if Wheeler sentences him to consecutive terms on April 5.

    “This guy is guilty. This guy is a baby killer,” said Marat Kudlis, father of 3-year-old Marten Kudlis, who was killed in the crash. “He should be where he is.”

    The verdict was read just after 10:30 a.m. Jurors received the case at about 2:30 p.m. Monday and deliberated for less than four hours.

    After the verdict, jurors leaving the courthouse declined to comment. Defense attorneys also left the courtroom without talking to the media, but an appeal can be expected.

    Almost a dozen Arapahoe County sheriff’s deputies were in the courtroom for the verdict, as were Hernandez’s mother-in-law Rosa Avelar, and his two daughters, Natalie, 2, and Destiny, 4.

    “He was at fault, but it wasn’t all his fault,” Avelar said, referring to reports that the driver of the truck Hernandez hit with his Chevy Suburban was high on methamphetamines and crossed a double-yellow line as she made a left turn to enter a strip mall on South Havana Street on Sept. 4, 2008.

    Prosecutors say Hernandez was driving between 70 and 80 mph on Havana when he hit the small pickup driven by Patricia Guntharp, who was turning left into a strip mall.

    Her pickup careened into a Baskin-Robbins store, killing Guntharp, 49, and her passenger, Debra Serecky, 51. Marten Kudlis was in the ice cream shop with his mother.
    “Justice has served the families of the victims in this case,” prosecutor Karen Pearson said. “His behavior was extremely reckless and a jury that was the case.”

    Throughout the trial, defense attorneys attempted to plant reasonable doubt by focusing on mistakes made by Aurora traffic investigators. Defense attorney Chris Baumann said the jury could not trust the word of lead traffic detective Johnny Lee, a “golden boy” with little investigative experience who was on the police department fast track.

    Lee testified last week that he provided “inaccurate evidence” to the court. Specifically, he said he accidentally deleted the original arrest affidavit then re-entered it. But he failed to include that one witness said he saw two people inside Hernandez’s Chevy Suburban after the accident.

    The defense is saying that Hernandez’s cousin, who was shot and killed last year, was also inside the Suburban and could have been the driver. Prosecutors say Hernandez was the driver and lone occupant.

    “Everything was viewed from a distorted prism,” Baumann said. “Detective Lee is your filter in this case and how can you trust him?”

    Baumann said police never considered the possibility of another driver and never tried to interview Hernandez’s cousin, Christian Hernandez, before he died. They never searched Francis Hernandez’s vehicle for other DNA. Francis Hernandez’s blood was found on the driver’s side air bag.

    In a written statement, the Aurora Police Department said it is conducting an internal review into the actions of Lee and the overall investigation.

    Hernandez moved here with his parents from Guatemala when he was a boy and was in this country illegally. He had been arrested for numerous traffic offenses and other violations, but authorities failed to deport him.

    The Kudlis has filed a civil lawsuit against Hernandez, the Guntharp family and the agencies that let Hernandez slip through the cracks.

    Guntharp had high levels of methamphetamine in her system when Hernandez crashed into her pickup, medical investigators said.

    Many thanks to lili for making this update possible. If it wasn’t for your offensive, cruel, racist and downright nasty comments under the original Francis Hernandez story, I may not have started digging for the status of Franny’s case, and we may never have found out about his conviction.

    Next time you want to complain about our treatment of one of criminals we feature here on PYSIH, try acting like a civilized person instead of a street thug. You actually had a legitimate point about Patricia Guntharp’s drug use, and I would have liked to debate you about that, but your agenda got lost in all the attitude you brought to the table.

    I’m glad the jury was able to see through the smoke and mirrors defense that Hernandez’s lawyers tried to pull off. When you have a client who is so obviously guilty, the best an attorney can do, it seems to me, is to discredit the police and blame as many others as possible, no matter how unworkable or far-fetched your theories have to be. It definitely helps if the other people you are blaming are dead and unable to defend themselves.

    For instance, Hernandez’s defense team hung a lot of importance on the fact the Patricia Guntharp was high on Methamphetamine at the time of the crash, but offered no evidence of how she actually did anything to cause the accident. They hoped the jury would fill in those blanks for them I guess.

    Smoke

    They also tried to say that Francis Hernandez wasn’t alone in the Ford Explorer on that fateful day, and that his cousin, Christian Hernandez, was the real driver. Unfortunately, Christian had been murdered a year or so after the crash, so nobody could ask him, and DNA tests of blood found on the SUV’s air bag determined it belonged to Francis.

    Mirrors

    Now it’s just a matter of how badly the judge wants to punish Francis Hernandez. Will he hold him solely accountable for thee deaths, and run all 19 sentences consecutively for a total of over 100 years in prison, or will he find some mitigating circumstances that will cause him to give Francis less time?

    We’ll just have to wait and see. But there are other things we can do too. We can do our best to make sure people like lili don’t trash the reputations of the victims and cause unnecessary pain to their families and loved ones. We can’t let that happen. Not here. Not on this website.

    Not on my watch.

    FacebookGoogle BookmarksGoogle GmailDiggOrkutRedditShare

    Filed under Updates | . Written on March 30th, 2010 by Max The Cat


    73 Comments »

    Similar Posts:

    73 Responses to “UPDATE: Francis Hernandez”

    1. USS Yorktown says:
      March 30, 2010 at 10:25 pm

      Good. What a cucaracha! Send him off to some Mexican prison, they are Hell.

      Reply
    2. vcbecky says:
      March 30, 2010 at 10:30 pm

      Max, I raise my glass of ginger ale to you, buddy!

      Put him in a Guatemalan prison. We don’t have room for the filth of other countries.

      Reply
    3. NavyCop says:
      March 30, 2010 at 10:45 pm

      Wow, what a filthy rotten douche. Tried to blame his murdered cousin, the other driver, geez, everybody except himself.

      Reply
    4. Oceanic says:
      March 31, 2010 at 12:28 am

      Aw, the little hijo de puta is making a sad face. I hope it’s because he is grieving the fact that he murdered two women and a toddler, but he’s probably just feeling sorry for himself because the defense couldn’t fool the jury into finding him not guilty.

      Reply
    5. kajun says:
      March 31, 2010 at 6:53 am

      Deport him, let him serve his time in Guatemala…it’ll be much worse for him than serving in some cushy jail in the US. I hate people like this guy, constantly trying to pass the buck and blame someone else. True fckin LOSER

      Reply
    6. The Bosses Secretary says:
      March 31, 2010 at 11:48 am

      Deport him, pronto! Hell, do like the cops here in California do – - if one illegal makes trouble, the whole illegal family gets deported ASAP!

      Reply
    7. lili ramirez says:
      March 31, 2010 at 12:08 pm

      Yes max your right i should have had acted more civil and i apologize for that. it just gets me really mad that people think that just because hispanics are immigrants that makes them criminals. I understand the fact that some hispanics make it that way by doimg the wrong things. But i don’t think that it’s all Francis Hernandez fault nobody takes in mind what the ladies were on.

      Reply
      • vcbecky says:
        March 31, 2010 at 12:21 pm

        Why does it matter what the ladies were on? HE hit THEM, not the other way around. There’s no way for him to mitigate his crime by palming guilt off on others.

        Immigrants from any country should be here legally. If you are here illegally, you ARE a criminal. That’s what ‘illegal’ means. It’s sad that otherwise good people become criminals by fleeing a country that’s been terrible to them, but that’s the fact we’re dealing with. Why should people who are here legally, who pay taxes and obey laws, be required to treat those that don’t as if they’re equal? My taxes, my hard-earned money, goes towards supporting these people who entered my country illegally. How is that fair? I want my money to go towards the education and health of people who deserve to be here. Is that wrong? Really?

        When you compound his illegal status with the crimes, mistakes or not, that Francis Hernandez committed, what do you expect our reaction to be? His status DOES matter, because it proves he doesn’t give two shits about America, or our laws.

        Reply
        • jayzee says:
          April 1, 2010 at 1:30 am

          I think one phrase in your response sums up the entire problem with the way you look at things. “Deserve to be here” Just because you happen to have born into a rich society, does that make you any more deserving to have the basic needs of life? If you had been born into poverty in honduras, or mexico, or china, wouldn’t you want to do anything you could to provide for your family? Isn’t that what we call the American dream? So why is it illegal for them to try to make their way to a country where there are jobs that the native-born citizens simply aren’t willing to do? And just because they’re here illegally doesn’t mean they haven’t tried to go through legal means. Just ask a legal immigrant the hoops they had to go through to get a green card or a visa.

          And in regards towards your taxes going to illegal immigrants, do you not realize that they pay taxes too? Using fake social security numbers doesn’t get you off the hook when it comes to taxes, it just means you never have a chance to see that withheld income again. You don’t think they would jump at the chance to pay income tax if it meant they could be legal?

          So yes, it is wrong, to believe that you deserve special treatment simply because of where you were born. I’ve known too many illegal immigrants who have worked far harder and done far more good for this country than most of the sad-sacks with flags pasted across their rear-windows.

          Does this excuse Francis Hernandez in any way? No.
          But does his crime excuse your racist, xenophobic, jingoistic bullshit? No.

          Reply
          • dani says:
            April 1, 2010 at 11:26 am

            obviously you dont live in texas, where there are many, many illegals flaunting lonestar cards and TANF and medicaid while proclaiming their love for their country. its not anyones fault that this is our country, and we want it to remain that way, but its a circumstance of birth. i dont wish that permanently stop all illegals from entering, but if we can put pirahnas in the rio grande adn huge cacti with no spaces around the entire border, i would feel better. (mostly because it was some illegal drug running jackasses who stole my van to transport drugs, then stripped and abandoned it) if he hadnt been here illegally then the ladies and the little boy wouldn’t have been killed by him. hard working or not, it should be done legally. i’m tempted to call a college in mexico adn see what the admission requirements are (because i’m sure residency is a big requirement). i mean, here in texas the illegals can get financial aid. i understand education and a better life are great things to have, but if i were an illegal in another country, i wouldnt get half of what these illegals get here.

            Reply
          • vcbecky says:
            April 1, 2010 at 12:23 pm

            Jayzee, my phrase ‘people who deserve to be here’ means just that. People who didn’t enter the country legally, and remain here under the radar do not deserve the same privileges as people who obey our laws. That’s why there’s a border. That’s why there are laws in the first place.

            I have no beef with immigrants. I have a beef with ILLEGALS who sneak over here knowing nothing of how we handle ourselves in this society, bringing their 3rd world violent, ignorant, clan-like, disrespectful, selfish bullshit with them, and hurting people who are here legally. What part of that doesn’t make sense to you?

            My ancestors were immigrants, just like practically every other American. They were simple farm workers just like many Mexican immigrants. The first generation immigrants who come here always work their asses off so maybe their children can have it easier and be actual Americans. They worked to integrate themselves and become citizens because they were proud to be here, because it was so much better than where they came from. I don’t pity them. Everyone new to this or any country has to earn the right to be here. Why should they be different?

            Many millions of people are born poor. All countries have them, including America. It is not fair for us to absorb the poor of Mexico unless the poor of Mexico are willing to integrate into this society. Many of them aren’t. They are the ones who established the stereotypes you rail against. The sense of entitlement they have is repulsive and wrong. And so are you.

            Reply
          • E says:
            April 1, 2010 at 3:04 pm

            Jayzee will you shut up about the supposedly saintly, hard working illegals. The ones I see work neither more nor less hard than anyone else. For each one that works hard, there is one standing around yammering in Spanish while the work goes undone. Actually, two are talking to each other, so for each one that I see working hard there are two who aren’t. And that business about “jobs that Americans won’t do” is a crock. Here in So Cal a talk radio station had planned a car wash and job postings for Americans who needed jobs and would be willing to start off with something low paying and menial, something that supposedly only illegals will do. They had to abort their plans and shut down the project because of threats from illegal alien activists. Maybe not those same perfect, peace loving people who just want to “work hard and support their families,” but definitely the people who represented them.

            Go ahead, call me racist, xenophobic, whatever. I could not possibly care less.

            Reply
          • SD says:
            April 1, 2010 at 5:01 pm

            jayzee, what do you mean “why is it illegal for them to try to make their way to a country where there are jobs that the native-born citizens simply aren’t willing to do?” First of all, it is illegal because THAT IS THE LAW. We didn’t make the law up, but it is the law. Second, I’m sick and tired of hearing that illegal immigrants do all the jobs we don’t want to do. It’s simply not true. I know several legal civilians right now that would be willing to do ANY sort of job, but with economy, they are having trouble finding any job. The illegal immigrants get hired more because they are willing to work for less in most situations. I swear if I hear someone say that one more time…

            Reply
          • dani says:
            April 1, 2010 at 9:13 pm

            oh, and most of the time those socials they use arent fake, they’re stolen. ever heard of shrekos? or however you spell them? you get them through a friend of a friend, from chicago or san antonio and they are mailed….through the mail! so shut up

            Reply
            • vcbecky says:
              April 1, 2010 at 9:24 pm

              Exactly. Those are stolen identities.

              There are only so many poor people a ‘rich country’ can take in before it’s not rich anymore. What gives you the right to drain our resources? “You’re rich, so you have to share it with me.” Bullshit.

      • Max The Cat says:
        March 31, 2010 at 12:59 pm

        Thanks Lili, I appreciate the apology. God knows I’m not above acting out on my anger too.

        I for one don’t believe that all Hispanics are criminals, or that Hispanics that are in this country illegally are mostly gangsters and drug dealers. My maternal grandfather and grandmother came to this country from Italy in the 1930′s, as did my father when he was just a baby, so I have immigrant written all over me. The kinds of attitudes you talk about are the attitudes of ignorant and simpleminded people who see a few pictures on the TV news and make ridiculous assumptions about an entire group of people.

        Most people here at PYSIH feel the same way about Hispanics as I do. There are some differing opinions about illegal immigration, but we all believe that judging people because of the color of their skin or the country they were born in is as wrong as one can be. If there are a few racist comments on our board, it’s only because we have an open forum here and allow just about anyone to say just about anything they want.

        Reply
      • mulch says:
        March 31, 2010 at 12:59 pm

        When has that been stated here? Should it turn up I am sure Max would ban the freak and we would tear him to peaces. Screw your fucking chip on your sholder. Either grow up of die. I don’t care which.

        You imply that we are racists. Please tell me besides bitching what have you done to fight that desease. Wanna know what I have done? Bear in mind that I live in Germany. I fight REAL nazis. Not what you imply are nazis but real members of the political party.

        I have started brawls. I have taken on 5 against one. I have been in more fights. More street fights with those shitheads than you could ever think. I have won and I have lost but I have never run.

        You can say thank you. But I have done more to stop the spread of their shit than you have. Again I say fuck your chip on your sholder.

        Does it matter what the women were on? No it does not. They were hit by a drunk driver and murdered. That is fact. Don’t dwel on stupid.

        Reply
      • USS Yorktown says:
        March 31, 2010 at 4:43 pm

        Than who is also at fault besides Francis Hernandez? Enlighten me. I will wait if I have to.

        Reply
      • vcbecky says:
        March 31, 2010 at 8:56 pm

        Lili, I forgot to say that I respect the fact that you came back here and apologized to Max. It shows you aren’t just some screaming anonymous internet troll. And it shows you have some pride in how you present yourself, which is something that wasn’t evident in your previous posts.

        This version of you is someone we can discuss this with. Thank you most sincerely for posting as a real person.

        Reply
        • Mulch says:
          April 1, 2010 at 12:23 am

          What she said!

          Reply
        • vcbecky says:
          April 1, 2010 at 2:16 pm

          Based on your most recent response in the original thread for this story, I rescind my apology to you. You need medication, not discussion.

          And since we’re slinging schoolyard insults at each other in that thread, here’s the standard check-mate – FUCK YOU, INFINITY PLUS ONE!

          Reply
    8. Atonement says:
      March 31, 2010 at 2:48 pm

      You guys are bashing this guy for trying to “pass the buck.” That is the strategy of all defense teams. Its rare to find a defendant who says “yeah I did it.” If you are facing any time in prison you are going to say whatever you can to get out of it whether you are guilty or not. Court cases are all smoke and mirrors. Think about it.

      Reply
      • NavyCop says:
        March 31, 2010 at 2:53 pm

        Gee, dude, when I was face with excessive force charges in ’05, I stepped up and said I did it. No point in denial.

        Reply
        • Atonement says:
          April 1, 2010 at 12:20 pm

          And why would I believe you?

          Reply
          • vcbecky says:
            April 1, 2010 at 12:27 pm

            And why would it matter if you believe her or not? Why does she have to prove anything to you?

            Reply
          • NavyCop says:
            April 1, 2010 at 2:48 pm

            Why would I admit it now if I didn’t admit it then? I wasn’t arguing a point, though. I was stating a fact. Big difference…….sugarplum.

            Reply
            • Atonement says:
              April 1, 2010 at 4:12 pm

              You would lie now because I think what you stated never happened. I was asking you to prove it.

            • NavyCop says:
              April 1, 2010 at 4:15 pm

              Ah, therein lies the riddle. Again, I wouldn’t lie about something like that. My life is out in the open. I have nothing to hide.

            • NavyCop says:
              April 1, 2010 at 4:17 pm

              And you never asked for proof. Unfortunatly, I can not just hand that out willy nilly. So all you have is my word, Atonement.

            • NavyCop says:
              April 1, 2010 at 4:25 pm

              Hold on, hold on, hold on…. I have to see if I can figure you out. “You would lie now because I think what you stated never happened.” So I would lie now, in your words, mind you, because in your mind it never happened. So because of your opinion, I am lying? I am thoroughly confused as to your meaning, Atonement. That is the most bizarre sentence I have ever read. Apparantly, the reason for me to lie is your unbelief.
              Now my brain hurts. Next on the agenda is your assertion that you asked me to prove it. No ma’am, I don’t have to prove it. Why should I? Why would you jump to call me a liar? All I said was that I admitted fault for something I had done. What’s wrong with that? Do you believe that all humans immediatly lie?
              Well, some do, to make themselves look better. But making false allegations of excessive force against oneself would make one look bad, right? So why would any sane person do that?
              Here’s what you need to understand. The situation was this: I did what I did because of what that individual did to an innocent child. You can take it at face value, or you can choose to disbelieve it. However, please refrain from calling me a liar. I know the truth and that’s good enough for me.

      • vcbecky says:
        March 31, 2010 at 3:54 pm

        This a court of public opinion. We don’t play word games here. This forum is for plain-speaking, not for those confusing, ambiguous verbal rubber balls that get bounced around during litigation. I hate those things. They’re uncontrollable, cheap and easy to lose behind a fat man or a large couch.

        Passing the buck is shameful in civilized society. If I kill someone, my humanity dictates that I must atone for it, or at least cop to it. If I was ever in Francis’ position, I would tell my attorneys to shove it, I must take responsibility for my actions no matter the repercussions because if someone killed a person I cared about I would hope the perp would do the same.

        If more people would accept responsibility, the world would be a remarkably better place. We’d all be more likely to take an ‘oops I made a mistake!’ and consider it just that – a mistake. But when people continue to lie about their culpability there really can’t be any lenience. And don’t tell me he’s doing it on the advice of his lawyer. The lawyer works for him, not the other way around.

        Reply
      • USS Yorktown says:
        March 31, 2010 at 6:25 pm

        So, by your thinking, the court system is a lynch mob system that should be abolished? Enlighten me.

        Reply
        • Atonement says:
          April 1, 2010 at 12:23 pm

          How do you figure that? All I said was in most cases the accused will say whatever they can to get proven “not Guilty”. That doesn’t mean the court system is a lynch mob and I never insinuated that.

          Reply
      • Max The Cat says:
        April 1, 2010 at 12:03 am

        And you don’t find it somewhat despicable when lawyers try to focus the blame on innocent people Atonement? Especially innocent people who just happen to be dead and unable to defend themselves? Lawyers who believe they need to win at all costs are just as evil as the people they defend.

        Reply
        • Atonement says:
          April 1, 2010 at 12:33 pm

          What I find despicable doesn’t matter. Its the way of the system. You have to look at both sides of the coin, how many innocent people have been put away or even sentenced to death because the prosecution used “smoke and mirrors” for a guilty verdict? Is it right in either case? No, but its all we have and out of all the legal systems of the world I think we have the best. All we can do is have faith that justice is done.

          Reply
    9. hazzard2myself says:
      April 1, 2010 at 11:55 am

      is it the picture or is that man a weird greenish color? And Orange ISNT his color.

      Reply
    10. NavyCop says:
      April 1, 2010 at 4:18 pm

      Funny how when a cop denies excessive force, he/she gets harrangued for it. And then when one is bold enough to admit it, he/she is met with unbelief.

      Reply
    11. Christina says:
      June 8, 2010 at 10:03 am

      AM I missing something? So he got charged with 19 charges for driving reckless and fleeing the scene of an accident? So what does this have anything to do with his immigration status? I think this original post was extremely racist. People drink and drive and kill people and get less time in prison. Do they deserve to be here anymore than he does? This was a terrible tragedy and especially the fact he left the victims there to die. But American citizens do this and far worse things all the time, so I don’t see why it matters where he is from…

      Reply
      • rmest says:
        June 28, 2010 at 4:06 pm

        Of course it matters where he was from. If he would have been deported after his numerous other violations, like he was suppose to. These people would still be alive. Him being here illegaly was a crime in itself. America has it’s own problems with twisted fucked up criminals that are U.S. citizens. We sure don’t need illegal ailens contributing to an already outragous problem. Do you have any idea how much crime is delt on citizens of this country by people that don’t even belong here.

        Reply
        • Vic says:
          July 31, 2010 at 6:31 pm

          No, I dont know…can you enlighten me? Give me some statistics. How much of the crime in the United States is caused by illegal immigrants. Please tell me! I want to know.

          Reply
          • rmest says:
            August 3, 2010 at 8:06 pm

            •In Los Angeles, 95% of some 1,500 outstanding warrants for homicides are for illegal aliens. About 67% of the 17,000 outstanding fugitive felony warrants are for illegal aliens.
            •There are currently over 400,000 unaccounted for illegal alien criminals with outstanding deportation orders. At least one fourth of these are hard core criminals.
            •80,000 to 100,000 illegal aliens who have been convicted of serious crimes are walking the streets. Based on studies they will commit an average of 13 serious crimes per perpetrator.
            •Illegal aliens are involved in criminal activities at a rate that is 2-5 times their representative proportion of the population.
            •In 1980, our Federal and state facilities held fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens but at the end of 2003, approximately 267,000 illegal aliens were incarcerated in U.S. correctional facilities at a cost of about $6.8 billion per year.
            •At least 4.5 million pounds of cocaine with a street value of at least $72 billion is smuggled across the southern border every year. ..
            •56% of illegal aliens charged with a reentry offense had previously been convicted on at least 5 prior occasions.
            •Illegal aliens charged with unlawful reentry had the most extensive criminal histories. 90% had been previously arrested. Of those with a prior arrest, 50% had been arrested for violent or drug-related felonies.
            •Illegal aliens commit between 700,000 to 1,289,000 or more crimes per year.
            •Illegal aliens commit at least 2,158 murders each year – a number that represents three times greater participation than their proportion of the population.
            •Illegal alien sexual predators commit an estimated 130,909 sexual crimes each year.
            •There may be as many as 240,000 illegal alien sex offenders circulating throughout America. Based on studies, they will commit an average of 8 sex crimes per perpetrator before being caught.
            •Nearly 63% of illegal alien sex offenders had been deported on another offense prior to committing the sex crime.
            •Only 2% of the illegal alien sex offenders in one study had no history of criminal behavior, beyond crossing the border illegally.
            •In Operation Predator, ICE arrested and deported 6,085 illegal alien pedophiles. Some studies suggest each pedophile molests average of 148 children. If so, that could be as many as 900,580 victims.
            •Nobody knows how big the Sex Slave problem is but it is enormous.
            •The very brutal MS-13 gang has over 15,000 members and associates in at least 115 different cliques in 33 states.
            •The overall financial impact of illegal alien crimes is estimated at between $14.4 and $81 billion or more per year. Factor in the crime as a result of the cocaine and other drugs being smuggled in and the number may reach $150 billion per year.

            Reply
            • Miwist says:
              August 4, 2010 at 12:03 am

              Okay – so you quoted verbatim (plagarized?) ‘The Dark Side of llegal Immigration Impacts of Illegal Immigration:Crime Summary” – hardly a credible source – The author, P.F. Wagner, is clearly, shall we say, slanted in his views and Dan Amato, the editor of the paper, is also the creator of the website ‘Diggers Realm’ – an uninformed and reactionary website.
              Look, it’s late and I’ve got to get up early, so I’ll be succinct – please do not insult my intelligence with racist, fabricated statistics – not only is it a waste of my time, but it makes you look foolish. When and if you can come up with some accurate statistics, you may present them. Also, please be kind enough to cite your sources. Until that time, please keep the racist drivel to yourself.

            • Max The Cat says:
              August 4, 2010 at 6:24 am

              Thanks Miwist. I knew there was something fishy about these stats, I just haven’t had a chance to dig into them. When I was reading them I recalled the crime stats we always hear that say Blacks are responsible for 95% of all the rapes of White women, and that White men never rape Black women.

              Ridiculous

              Stats like this only sound reasonable to people who want to believe them. To open minded, free thinking people, they just don’t ring true. Actually, I guess we should be thankful that they exist, because they’ve brought a hell of a lot of closet racists out in the open.

              Don’t get me wrong, we need to do a much better job of controlling our boarders, and enforcing our existing immigration laws. But hating a group of people because of a few bad apples is racism weaned down to its simplest form. I’m first generation Italian American – can you imagine what what folks who think like this could do with the people who brought you La Cosa Nostra?

            • rmest says:
              August 4, 2010 at 1:46 pm

              Look the lady asked for stats. I gave her what I could find. I am sure there are hundreds of more out there that people that have time to sit around and dig for can find. I gave her what she asked for. Rather you believe them or not is up to you. Personally I do not know exact numbers. Nor will I ever claim to. I will also be the first to admit that I am no where close to the most intelligent person on this site. I would never get into any kind of argument about any statistics with anyone one here, I for sure would not argue anything with Max, because I know for a fact he would make me look like a total jackass. All i have to go on is my common sense. My common sense tells me that out of all the illegal immagrants that are in this country every single one of them has already broken the law. It is still against the law to be here illegally right? Do I believe there are people here that are here illegally that are just trying to make a better life for them and their families. Absolutely. Do they have the right to be here to improve their lives. I say yes. Do thy have the right to be here illegally. Thats a big fat no.

            • rmest says:
              August 4, 2010 at 2:38 pm

              Look all I was trying to do was give the lady what she asked for. Rather they are right or not is up to whom ever reads them to decide. I don’t know if they are correct or not. I don’t know the true statistics nor would I ever claim to.
              I will also never claim to be the most intelligent person here. I am far from it, and I know it. Nor would I ever try to get into some long debate about such things, surely not with Max because I know for a fact that he would chew me up, spit me out, and mop the floor with me. All I have to go with is my common sense. My common sense tells me that every single person that is here illegally has already broken the law. No one can argue that fact. For it is still illegal to be here illegally right? I don’t know how many illegals are in this country, but I am sure it’s a lot. Out of all those people I am sure there are tons that are just trying to make a better life for their families. They have every right ot do so legally. On the other side of the table though. I am 100% positve that there are people here that just, well, make life a living hell for everyone else around them.
              I am just like everyone else on this site. I have an opinion. I hate baby killers, murderers, rapists, pediphiles,and every other disgusting crime that is on this site. If we are to respect the laws we need to respect all of them. This guy should have been deported the first time he broke the law. If he had, these wonderful citezens would still be alive, and Francis would be breaking the law in Guatemala.
              So, truth be told I have no idea how much crime is committed on the people of this country by illegal immagrants, but I really don’t care if it’s 5, 500, or 50000. In my mind 1 is to many.
              That is all just my opinion. Take as you will. If anyone finds it necessary to rip me a new one feel free. I’m a man, and I can take it.

            • rmest says:
              August 4, 2010 at 2:56 pm

              Sorry for the double post. Something happend. Not sure what. Some can please delete the first one if at all possible.

            • Miwist says:
              August 4, 2010 at 3:31 pm

              So you openly admit you don’t know what you’re talking about – then don’t talk about it. To say the lady wanted stats is no excuse to give her bullshit stats. If someone asks a question and you don’t know the answer, it’s usually best to say “I don’t know” – you’ll earn much more respect that way. Many people that visit this PYSIH respect and enjoy comments made by Jason – that is because he writes about what he knows, and is able to speak with knowledge and passion. There is no pretense – just sound reasoning with feeling.
              To spout off statistics as fact is part of the problem we have in the United States today.
              I agree that illegal immigration is a huge problem. However, making up “facts” will not solve the problem. We have plenty of people making up facts, we have Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, and Rush – We have the Southern Poverty Law Center and the NAACP giving their particular slant to issues. What we don’t have are more people listening to both sides and drawing their own informed conclusions.
              As a result, we have a country of uninformed, mindless drones sitting on one side of the fence or the other – spouting off whatever rhetoric they happen to believe as “fact”.
              That lack of unity is more of a problem than illegal immigration will ever be. It’s that whole ‘united we stand, divided we fall’ thing. You may have heard about it in grade school.
              I apologize if I sound harsh, but I have had it with the fear mongering and racism. I had it with the lies about race and immigration. I’ve really had it with the social acceptance of racism under the guise of protecting America. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

            • Jason says:
              August 4, 2010 at 3:33 pm

              @rmest,

              Thank you, if was taking me awhile, but I was getting ready to counter each one of these stats. It takes a long time to come up with the numbers, but some of my solutions were simple math. If the Illegal Immigrant population has a 4 times greater incidence for murder than the resident population per capita, then the actual murder rate would be, by definition, about 10000 people greater in the LA area, for example. That’s ridiculous. I don’t think you’re ridiculous, I think you’re just struggling with the wrong side of the debate.

              I don’t want to murder illegal immigrants. It upsets me so much that some choose to have children who are American citizens and then fail to apply or gain American citizenship. It’s something they need to do for their children so that they aren’t deported away from them and their children aren’t placed as wards of the State. I don’t blame justice for being served, when the consequences were known before the crime was committed. I expect parents to plan their children’s future whenever possible.

              I don’t hate Mexico or the Mexican people. I don’t believe there are 30 million illegal immigrants in this country. I don’t believe a lot of the bunk, but I deeply respect the right and the value of my American citizenship. It is one of the most valuable things I can physically touch and know is real. I have friends who jumped through hoops to become American Citizens. A Russian friend who grew up a Russian citizen studying in the United States who a year ago became an American. He’s not one of those deep cover types, but if you ask him to say “Moose and Squirrel” you’ll not stop lasting for many, many minutes. But to steal citizenship, to fake it, to cheapen it through crime, that hurts the franchise, it hurts the country and it does lead to hit and runs and tragedies like this that could have been avoided. I think the Arizona law is wrong. Not because something like it isn’t necessary, but because it reaches too far, is too reactionary and is purposefully designed to fail or is made to appear and be contentious by its designers. Something has to be done for illegal immigration and amnesty is not what I want. I think it cheapens 9 years for Nikola and 3 years for Hoff, and so many other years and efforts by so many other people who deserve the rights and the liberties because someone earned them for them. Because they looked the responsibilities in the face and decided to lend a hand to the problems this nation has and are choosing to fix them, not be a source for them.

              Fake numbers are unnecessary. Illegal immigrant crime is actually down. This case makes me so mad for so many good reason, I don’t need any cheap, false or bad reasons to be mad. This doesn’t have to be about race and illegal immigration, but it was made partially about that by a moron who couldn’t be bothered to even be a good guest or worthy of the citizenship he was stealing. He is not worthy of the country of his birth and he is not worthy of this country either. It’s not a race thing, it’s a human versus monster thing. It’s a man versus an irresponsible punk thing. It’s an honor and duty thing.

              If this country were faced with the ultimate sacrifice, and men and women in large lots volunteered to defend her in its service, why then would I cheapen the service of those men and women by giving this thing more than merely what is humanly due him. He gets that, but he also gets the scorn of not being a citizen, not being a man, having no honor and failing in every duty and opportunity to prove his worth he could possibly choose. He is not worth the air in his lungs, the food in his belly, the dirt under his feet and that is what is wrong. Not his race, but what he chooses to be.

            • Jason says:
              August 4, 2010 at 3:40 pm

              @all forgive my many, many typos. The compound epidural has been miraculous, but a life altering event.

            • rmest says:
              August 4, 2010 at 4:11 pm

              Look Miwist. I didn’t know if they were bullshit stats or not. I gave her what I could find in the short amount of time I had to find them. If they are bullshit thats my bad for posting them. Just because I don’t know exact stats does not mean I can’t have an opinion. Many post on here are opinions. Yes Jason is the smartest guy on here. I will agree with that 100%. Are you seriosly going to argue with me about crime being committed by illegal immigrants. It is a problem, big time. I don’t think I am wrong for not wanting horrible crimes to be committed on good people by people that have broken the law the minute they came here illegally. Lokk I am not a bad guy by any means. I care so much for the poor victims and their families. My heart bleeds for them. I get this knot in the pit of my stomach. Literally try to hold back tears on some of these stories. They make me think of any one of my 5 kids. So I apologize for the bullshit stats. Show me some real stats please. I would like to know as well. Show me that there is not a good amount of crime committed on good people by illegal immigrants. I am not being sarcastic or trying to be an ass. Just show me some real stats so I can be better informed.

            • Miwist says:
              August 4, 2010 at 5:29 pm

              rmest – again, if I come off as harsh, I apologize. If I get the chance I will try to research some more credible stats.
              I do understand your position and most of the statistics available a skewed to the negative – it’s difficult to ascertain what is and what isn’t.
              I don’t think you’re a bad guy – I have a great deal of respect for you, Max,, Jason, ForlornW, vcbecky, and pretty much everybody here.
              Somebody recently suggested I’m a bit antagonistic, and yeah, maybe I am. I do like to provoke – hopefully to promote conversation, but I don’t say stuff just to be a dick – it just comes off that way – probably because I’m a dick.
              Okay, I’m off to the vet – just got another cat, that makes 4. She needs her rabies shot – this is going to be the most fun I’ve had all day. Stuffing a kitty into a kitty carrier is one the most outstanding challenges a man can experience. My life fucking rocks!!!

            • rmest says:
              August 4, 2010 at 5:35 pm

              All is good. Have fun with the cats. I don’t have any experience with them, but it don’t sound fun. If it’s anything like trying to get my two yr. old daughter and 1 yr. old boy in the car seats when they really don’t want to go. Then I feel you pain.

          • rmest says:
            August 4, 2010 at 4:36 pm

            Sorry guy’s I live out in the middle of no where and the internet really sucks out here. No high speed thats for sure. It takes so long for crap to load up. I cant tell if it’s even working half of the time. Double posts. Sorry again.

            Reply
            • Max The Cat says:
              August 4, 2010 at 5:03 pm

              No problem rmest, it happens all the time. That’s why you have your friendly neighborhood editor. BTW, my comments weren’t directed at you per se, but at the fool who thought up these phony statistics. It felt strange that they were coming from you, because it didn’t jive with my mental picture of you that I came up with from all your previous comments. I needed to hear more from you on this subject before I could figure out what side of the fence you were on.

            • rmest says:
              August 4, 2010 at 6:33 pm

              Well Max I will do my best. I am so affraid of sounding like a complete ass when talking with you guy’s. I really respect all of your intelligence and ways with words. Qualities that I really don’t have. Here on this site. Which I love by the way. People are going on about how sick these folks are for the crimes they have committed, and sick they are.Now to me if you are going to criticize all these people for all of the laws that are broken and the crimes that are committed, then you need to respect all the laws. Now I realize that coming into this country illegally is not a violent crime, but it is a crime none the less. And some of the people that do come here illegally are committing violent crimes. All I ask is respect the laws and try to better your life, if thats what you come here for. If your here to be a gang banger, or here to transport drugs across the border, or here to kidnap pretty little girls to sell as a sex slave, then stay the hell out. Basicly it comes down with me, that if you are not here to contribute to society in a productive and possitive way then there is no need for you to be here. I have no problem with people that want to be citizens of this country coming in and doing so. I don’t like to talk about my personal life on here, but here is a little secret for you all. My wife is hispanic. I have 5 mixed raced children. We both grew up in Bakersfield, CA. Not the worst place on earth. Surely not the best. It was her that convinsed me to pack up and leave the shit hole because even she was getting tired of the crime, and flow of illegals that were coming in. So to make a long story short we packed up and moved to Michigan. Not that I am to proud of this place either. It really does have it’s share of sickos. I know that all races commit crimes, But why should we as a society have to put up with crimes from people that already broke the law by coming here illegally. We have enough POS here as it is. I hope this is not to harsh or makes me sound like a bad guy. I don’t want anyone here thinking ill of me. That is where I stand on the issue. If you want to live here do it the right way contribute to society in the most possitive way that you can, and have a happy life, and watch out for these people you’ll see in hell. I don’t know what side of the fence this puts me on, but it does not sound unreasonable to me.

            • vcbecky says:
              August 4, 2010 at 9:02 pm

              rmest, I agree with every word you said in this post. It is my stance as well. I’m neither right or left – I flip-flop as the situation demands. I have no idea how our opinion labels us, but should we really care?

              The internet brings us a lot of information. Not all of it is correct. I think the thing to do when it comes to stuff you really do care about, is to read as much information as you can, with as open a mind as you can muster. Then roll all of that around, pass it through the mental “Bullshit Sieve” all reasonable people have, and come up with a solid opinion. If you express it, be prepared to defend it. If you change your mind as a result of an argument, you’ve learned something so it’s all good.

              Never be afraid to post your opinion here. You’re not a violent dumbass, you’re not mindlessly backing a perp without solid evidence simply because you’re related to them, you’re not hurting anyone. I respect your input as I do all the ‘sane’ posters here. Obviously I’m not the only one. It’s the ‘insane’ posters who should be afraid!

      • E says:
        June 28, 2010 at 5:51 pm

        It matters where he is from because as you point out we’ve got enough citizen scum of our own to deal with, actually more than we can deal with, without letting any more in.

        Reply
    12. Vic says:
      July 31, 2010 at 6:29 pm

      Okie, I’ve got a question. How is this different than anyone else having a “freak accident”? I mean, i understand the guy was reckless…but I ask ya’ll this..who HASN”T ever run a red light? I’ve run red lights, on accident before, and been thankful that nothing happened. I understand that this is tragic but how is this different than other freak accidents that occur in the world?

      Reply
      • Max The Cat says:
        July 31, 2010 at 7:12 pm

        Because Francis shouldn’t have been in the US when he ran that red light while he was driving without a license in an unregistered SUV. This wasn’t a one time thing for Francis – he always drove unlicensed and unregistered. He learned long ago that he didn’t have to respect the laws of this country like the rest of us.

        If you can’t see the difference between what happened here and a freak accident, then no one will ever be able to explain it to you. This never should have happened, because Francis Hernandez should never have been driving, much less driving in that spot the day of the accident.

        Reply
        • Jason says:
          July 31, 2010 at 7:32 pm

          Driving safely starts small and gets no bigger than the next mistake.

          You start out with a car that is safe. It has mirrors and lights where it’s supposed to, won’t roll over or explode too easily and passes a few major tests.

          Then, in most states, you insure the driver and the car, to make sure if something does go wrong, you can meet your obligations to yourself and others to fix things you break.

          Then you drive within the laws of the road.

          This moron ran a red light as a symptom of a series of stupid law breaking. He doesn’t know how to drive. I mean if he doesn’t have a license, doesn’t have insurance, doesn’t have a registered vehicle, and chooses to drive without these things, he is specifically incapable of driving a car or truck, or even a motorcylce correctly. A 4 year old has more right to be behind the wheel of a registered car than he does.

          Max has it dead on, but I thought I’d beat this into the ground. This moron apparently knew he had no idea how to drive, and then chose to kill three people with his car. Not an accident anymore, he chose to drive when he didn’t have the right and didn’t know how to drive. And to top it all off, he fled the scene so he doesn’t even know how to a be a human being. He should be dead. His actions are no different than firing an automatic rifle at the horizon and expecting not to hit anybody, but randomly killing three.

          Reply
    13. Budgiegirl says:
      August 15, 2010 at 10:02 am

      Hello! A freak accident?

      Well, I suppose what kind of accidents *do* freaks have anyway?

      Reply
    14. LLt says:
      April 16, 2012 at 1:16 pm

      Francis Hernandez was sentenced to 60 years. Before he was sentenced he took the stand and apologized to the victims’ families. He begged for mercy saying he had 2 little daughters that needed him at home.

      Reply

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