Aimee Louise Sword
Once and a while there comes along a story that is so unbelievable that you swear it’s just GOT TO BE fiction. And this is just one of those stories.
For long-time fans of PYSIH, you will recognize a wonderful vindication of sorts. Many stories on this site often attract friends, relatives and the like to come and defend their own special criminal.
When this story first broke the waves of the media, it was so un-fucking-believable that it automatically was relegated to tabloid status. And, like all stories dealing with human trash, there was an onslaught of supporters of the perp stating how she was innocent and that the victim was the real villain — You people slinging blame just don’t know all the facts!
Uh-huh.
Oh, yes. Innocent, innocent, innocent. With this case, some had the audacity in the comment sections of articles posted to liken the “poor” child-raper to Christ on the cross and His sufferings.
Well, turns out the perp came clean in a court of law and pleaded guilty as charged. Yep. Owned up to it being all HER fault. She doesn’t know why she did it, but yep, it was all on her.
Sooooooooo, it is with great pleasure that I can ask all of those denizens of denial, “How’s that working for ya now?”
Let’s get to the story, a story of incest, rape, psychological manipulation, emotional trauma and a life-sentence of being totally screwed up.
Depending on the personal belief of the reporter, you can tell by the headline how he/she really feels about the story:
Michigan Mom in Prison For Getting Intimate With Her Own Son
(no link)Police: Michigan Mom Found Long Lost Son Online, Raped Him
Michigan Mom Aimee Louise Sword Faces Trial for Incest With Son She Gave Up for Adoption
What Made A 36-Year-Old Mother Want To Start An Incestuous Affair with Her 14 Year-Old Son?
Aimee L. Sword Sentenced To 30 Years In Prison For Having Physical Relations With Her Son
Mother Sleeps With Son She Gave Up For Adoption (no link)
If you think that perhaps you are seeing more than one news story, then it is perfectly understandable as you’d never be able to tell that it is one and the same story. In various headlines, the crime is described as: rape, sexual assault, incest, sex, affair, a summer romance, physical relations – but “Mother sleeps with son” has got to take the cake. It sounds like a police state over-reaction to a mother sleeping in the same bed with her son!
And summer romance?
Give me a break!!
Overall, the predominate tone is hushed, muted. Few papers were calling it rape or sexual assault. The headline where it states “Aimee L. Sword sentenced to 30 years in prison for having physical relations with her son” is a real work of art. From the headline, one could suspect that something happened under the banner “physical relations” and that Aimee was being unduly punished.
Papers that felt she was being treated harshly reported the upper limit of her sentence and it is only once you read the body of the article that you find out that she is sentenced to 9 to 30 years in prison, with 9 years mandatory before consideration of parole.
Furthermore, the people who raved on and on about how innocent Aimee was built their house of cards around vilifying the victim. Should we be surprised? Nah. This kind of thing goes on all the time. When the facts aren’t out there (as they were under wraps here with Aimee), then the next best thing is to spew whatever you can in terms of shit at the target – the victim – and some shit is bound to stick.
The worst of it came from her supporters – Aimee was really “forced” into having sex with the boy, don’t cha know? He laid on a guilt trip on her about her giving him up for adoption and she felt like she had to have sex with him. Well, that was one story. It actually makes it a tale of rape in reverse – the child raped Aimee.
Confused yet?
Well, Aimee’s supporters didn’t stop there. He was said to be a 17-year-old gangbanger who was in serious trouble with the law all the time. He was diagnosed bipolar, he was on the run, he was into drugs, he was … well, just short of Adolph Hitler right?
While they were busy shooting down her boy, the denizens of decorum were busy saying that the fruit of her loins was a piece of white trash. Really. That’s what it amounts to.
So how did they deal with the fact that Aimee has (sort of) confessed and pleaded guilty? Aimee swears it was just the one time that they had sex, but the boy said it was many times, and the prosecutors have the hotel records of several trysts. They don’t know the exact number, but they know it was more than once.
Back to her supporters. Well, I would like to tell you that these idiots finally came forth and apologized for demonizing said boy, but we know that ain’t the way the world works.
There appears to be a movement afoot that would, if the genders were reversed, be stomach-churning and nauseating.
It would seem that there is a plethora of incest-supporters out in internet-land. It is sad that the excuses weren’t so freely posted before, but there appears to be a “new” study that indicates Genetic Sexual Attraction as an affliction one psychologist seems to think explains this all away.
Forgive me for being old-fashioned, but there already is a term that explains a mother sleeping with her son: INCEST.
But these people would have you believe that it was something Aimee couldn’t help. This is bullshiting a bullshit theory at its best because GSA was only dreamed up to explain couples who DO NOT KNOW they are related, meet and fall in love. It was theorized that this thing can happen and that there was a psychological explanation lurking nearby.
In Aimee’s case, one must first examine the facts. She gave the child up for adoption two days after she gave birth to him. She did receive updates from the adopting family about her boy throughout his life. She was kept in contact with his progress. When she didn’t receive an update when she felt she should have after his 14th birthday in 2008, she took matters into her own hands and she used the internet to track him down, primarily through Facebook and Myspace.
Aimee found him and got to see a recent photograph of him. In her own words, at court, she said that when she saw his picture, it wasn’t a mother-son feeling she experienced: it was a girlfriend-boyfriend feeling.
All together now: EEEEEWWWWWWWWW!!!
And, knowing, as all people do that the feelings she was having were wrong, and a clear sign she needed psychotherapy, in a perfect world, she would have signed herself up for frequent appointments at the local psych ward.
But as we know, she didn’t do anything smart like that. After all, she’s a narcissist. What she saw was a perfect way to travel back in time and use the boy she got pregnant with fourteen years ago. Sort of an easy way to recapture her youth, know what I mean?
As the boy was having problems in Grand Rapids, Aimee suggested the boy come stay with her for a while. The adopted parents, feeling that maybe some time with his biological mother may help him with the terrible teens all that angst and stuff, agreed.
Remember folks, at the time, she is MARRIED and has FIVE children living in her home. She is 35 years old and she looks her little boy up in his 14TH year. Essentially, this 35-year-old woman is having the hots for a 14 year old boy. We are looking at a BIG gap. Some papers try to skew the facts and let the reader assume that the age difference ain’t so big. She was a teenager when she gave him up – nope, she was at least 21 years old. Another said she gave her son up ten years ago – nope, at least 14 years ago. But that story said she gave him up when he was 5 years old. See,, whatever Aimee’s fans want to spin, then they play fast and loose with the facts. If she had actually given him up at 5 years of age, then it would have been even worse.
The media has tried to track the ex-husband down to get his view on all this, but he hasn’t said a word. What could you say?
And dear sweet Aimee, her lawyer said that she decided to plead guilty because she didn’t want the boy to suffer the trauma of having to testify against her.
I can hear it now – she just did that so that the boy would be safe. Yes,, she isn’t really guilty of anything except loving her son too much. YUCK!!!
Oh, and her lawyer said Aimee had been sexually and physically abused in her childhood too. Hmmm. That must be why she abused her son. She just wanted him to have the same wretched fucked up psychosis for his life, too, right?
Wow. She’s mother-of-the-year material.
I guess what sticks in my craw more than anything is the blatant double-standard that seems to be going on here.
The whole focus should be on the victim; but you know it isn’t. He was vilified up one side and down the other.
To give you some idea, here’s a quote from one site(emphasis mine):
The original press article mentions that her son wasn’t ten but fifteen. Not only that, this teenager was a gangbanger. He had been repeatedly in trouble with the law. He likely used anabolic steroids. Most likely, as most criminal juveniles his age, he already had a wild sex life.
Aggressive, early matured boys at that age are at their sexual prime, and guys with a criminal record and who even threaten their parents don’t exactly take no for an answer when they try to get into a girl’s pants. So much for the “Permanent emotional damage of the little boy that so cruelly lost his virginity by a perverse incest rape” that the prosecution alleges. As far as we know, it was him who demanded the sex, not his biological mother.
She conceded partly due to guilt, partly out of fear of losing contact with her son forever and last but not least, partly because she was asked by his adoptive parents, the social workers and her son’s shrink to make an attempt to bring him to his senses – or he would face juvenile detention. She was desperate to do whatever it took to save her son from jail.
The article in question isn’t provided with a link for readers to judge for themselves, but factual truth is the least of this writer’s concern.
The teenager had just turned fourteen when his mom hooked up with him.
He wasn’t a gangbanger.
He hadn’t been repeatedly in trouble with the law, but, like most adolescent boys, had been in trouble and was getting counseling from a psychologist and his parents were spending time and money to get him help.
He didn’t use anabolic steroids – but you’d leave this article with the impression he did.
He wasn’t a criminal juvenile – but again you’d think he had a rap sheet a mile long.
And he didn’t already have a wild sex life.
It glides over specifics and gives the impression that he had a criminal record, that he had threatened his parents, that he had raped other girls.
They do state “As far as we know….” but when you first read this article, it takes a very critical eye to spot the fallacies they are fobbing off as facts.
In fact, you get the impression that the son raped the mother. Every time I read this paragraph, I can feel my blood pressure rise.
“As far as we know, it was him who demanded the sex….” Actually, no, we know it was Aimee as she testified that it was all her idea.
They end their supposition with poor Aimee giving in to her child’s demand for sex in an effort to assuage the guilt he made her feel at putting him up for adoption and in an effort to keep her emotional connection with him.
Hmm? Sounds like she’s not playing with a full deck. Any mother this easily manipulated doesn’t deserve to be in charge of raising any children, and Aimee has five more at home. So the case of the boy bullying his mother into fornication doesn’t stand any sort of scrutiny.
And when you start to look at the way in which the words are put together, you realize what kind of a hatchet job they are doing on the victim.
He didn’t want or seek her out and make contact. Aimee did that all on her own. She testified in a court of law to this and she was the one who asked the adopted parents if she could have him live with her for a while.
The thing people have lost sight of is the young boy who is now royally screwed up. He wasn’t some drug-using sex-mad aggressive gangbanger intent on raping all females in his path, up to and including his biological mother.
Who’s the victim here?
You’d honestly swear it was Aimee. The article continues:
Is Aimee Louise Sword A Pedophile?
Look at her. Is this a pedophile predator? She seems to have no problem getting adult male attention, and clearly enjoys it. A pity we have no picture of her “raped” son, because we strongly suspect that he looks similar in maturity to this tattoo artist. Poor child. His tender soul will never recover from banging this MILF he has no emotional bond with and wouldn’t even recognize as his biological mother. When a man violently rapes an underage girl, it is a despicable crime. When an adolescent horny young man manipulates a woman he has no relationship with into sex, it is worse for that woman than for him, if that woman is his mother and is desperately trying to establish a rapport with him. He certainly isn’t being raped in the ethical, moral sense. We sometimes forget that the Law is there to fairly enforce the morals of society, not to be politically correct. The Law should concern themselves with the spirit of the law, not blindly follow its letter. However, extremist feminism and political correctness make us treat “statutory rape” cases equal, regardless of which gender is the “rapist”, what the relationship was between the parties and how much emotional or physical damage was inflicted. This is an abomination. There were other cases where a gang of youths coerced a not so bright teacher into gang-banging them, and hey presto, the woman gets plastered all over the Internet as one of the worst serial rapists in history – and she’ll spend her prime years in jail.
I particularly like the inference that there is a “look” that one can identify for pedophile predators. Again, the rape isn’t about sexual attraction – it’s about power. The pseudo-pity is more salt on the wound. It mocks whatever feelings the boy may have, and it certainly paints him as active participant and chief villain in his own assault.
Did he know she was his mother? Yes, eventually.
Did he know prior to their first encounter? Well, no. You see, Aimee got around to telling him at their first rendezvous. And since the Aimee-supporters engage in speculation, I can too. Can’t you just hear her telling the boy, “We’re special, you and I. We have a bond no one can understand. We are connected on a different plane of existence. The rules don’t apply to you and I.”
Of course, I can’t do Aimee justice as I don’t really know what yarn to spin to convince a child I had given birth to that it was okay I tracked him down just to have sex with him.
And there is the blatant stereotype here of the wronged woman – “experts|” have been crawling out of caves to spew forth some drivel about “genetic sexual attraction” as some sort of explanation for Aimee’s actions. GSA is seen as a reason for people having attractions for their cousins or relatives they never knew about.
This is bogus and I call it junk science.
To begin with, IF Genetic Sexual Attraction exists, then it should at least follow the theory’s premise. The premise? That two individuals, who do not know that they are related, somehow meet and find an irresistible attraction to one another.
I’ll reiterate this sticking point: the two individuals do not know they are related.
Hmmm. Doesn’t really cover Aimee’s case, now does it?
But you’d be nauseated to read in comment after comment the apologists foisting this tepidly acknowledged psychological babble as the “explanation”.
In Aimee’s case, she knew who the boy was and when she didn’t get her update on her 14 year old, then she tracked him down.
My theory? Aimee is one of those women that never want to grow up. She is a narcissist who thinks everything she does is clever and cute. Every man she’s been with she has managed to have a child with. Starting with this boy.
When she saw her boy, entering the teen years, he must have resembled the original man that knocked her up and left her flat.
And why shouldn’t she go and have a piece of time travel and recapture her youthful passionate relationship with the end result of the original fling?
How often have we read stories about fathers, particularly lately, deciding to keep their daughters captive and impregnate them year after year until they escape? The reason being, I made you, you’re mine to do with as I please.
I don’t cut any slack if the perp happens to be a mother doing essentially the same mind-fuck.
And she is.
Do you know how difficult it is for males to even admit someone is sexually abusing them? There are studies on male victims of sexual abuse, but the studies are fraught with problems as it is under-reported especially for boys. There is a cultural bias that males cannot be victims. To be a victim is to admit that one is less than a “true” male; aggressive, assertive, confident, knowledgeable, in charge and in control.
So aside from having to surmount this hurdle, what if the boy in question responds sexually to the abuse? The victim would somehow feel responsible for the abuse – why else would his body have reacted?
It is a vicious set of cultural and psychological factors that almost condemn male victims to suffer in silence. Both girls and boys fear having the abuse made public, but boys fear it for more reasons: loss of freedom and independence, the perception of others of the male as a “helpless” victim, the threat of reprisals, negative judgment, being held responsible for the abuse occurring in the first place.
Worse consequences are for those males who may have a homosexual orientation and thus end up believing that they somehow “attracted” male abusers, that it is somehow their fault. Public revelation would then carry the double threat of exposure to the abuse and to the boy’s orientation. There is less sympathy held for male victims of sexual abuse, and even less for homosexual victims.
In Aimee’s abuse, it is thoroughly reprehensible. The “Mrs. Robinson” scenario of an older woman seducing and “initiating” a young male into sexual activities is seen as some sort of cultural rite-of-passage, and the fact that many sites on the internet have referred to her as a MILF (Mothers I’d Like to F*ck), the whole thing is taken as a joke.
But would it be so funny if the genders were reversed? Would people be so quick to crack jokes if this were a story about a 35-year-old father looking up his 14-year-old daughter? She is having troubles at school and coping with adolescence; she’s seeing a psychologist and a school counselor. She’s into arguing with her adoptive parents and is moody and sulky – in other words, a typical teenager.
Along comes her father, to whom the adopted parents have kept in touch with over the years and have sent him updates as to her life: how she’s done in school, the sports she’s good at, her likes and dislikes. They have even mentioned the help she’s been getting for her teen troubles. The father suggests taking her to his house with his family (spouse and five other children) to see if a visit would break her routine and maybe help her keep her mind off her troubles or work things out?
The couple is happy that the father is taking an interest and agrees wholeheartedly. I mean, after all, she’d be going to a house where the wife and children are, so it would be safe. And, the man is her father, right?
Now, the father takes the daughter to a motel and they end up in bed together. It doesn’t happen just once, but many times. It happens at the house where the father and his wife live. It happens at several other motels.
The girl returns home after a period of months, but she’s not any better. In fact, she is now downright secretive. The discussions are few and far between. Conversations are non-existent and responses are monosyllabic.
Do you see the difference? I can, and I’m just writing it down. The whole idea that it is somehow less of a crime against a young, confused and vulnerable boy is just wrong and I don’t believe that shame and the trauma of abuse has a color or a gender.
In fact, I think what Aimee’s done is even worse as the boy isn’t going to get any sympathy as her crime is seen as “not that bad” and I’ve seen comments in internet sites about this case stating things like, “You can’t rape the willing.”
Really?
I think Aimee and her ilk all deserve a special place in hell. Their justifications and rationalizations are just as bad as those used when girls are raped by their fathers.
And the excuse that Aimee used? I mean, you know that an excuse had to be coming because no one accepts responsibility for anything anymore.
Her excuse? She was sexually and physically abused when she was young.
You know what? Big deal. Suck it up and move on. Many people were, but they chose not to ever abuse anyone in their life time. It’s called making a choice and living to a code of moral standards.
Aimee should try it some time.
She does have at least nine long years to think things over.
Does Aimee Louise Sword Belong In Hell?
- Yes (83%, 351 Votes)
- No (17%, 71 Votes)
Total Voters: 422
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172 Comments »
Why can’t there be a Hell Vote for her “supporters” who were saying her son was asking for it?
I would’ve gave her some of my meat. She must’ve been desperate!
Great idea!!
Because her son was the legal age of consent? Who cares? I’d have done her if I was her son too, she’s a fine piece of ass.
Plus why’s this story any more shocking than a underage girl being molested by her father? I believe a father/daughter molestation would be way more traumatic than this – plus the boy didn’t grow up around her so regardless of their genetics, the psychological perception is that she was just another woman, not that she was his mom – psychology has way more to do with it than actual genetics.
The kid was 16, not 6 – so again this is an example of being more outraged at the “weirdness factor” than the actual harm done. There are way more outrageous crimes and I feel sorry for the woman – sure if she broke the law I’m not saying she shouldn’t be in jail, but she’s being unfairly targeted by people who are more concerned with the “weirdness” than the actual harm done, the same kind of people who condemn homosexuals just because they believe they’re “weird”.
I don’t see any justice coming from this. When he is 18 he may or may not get involved with her again. I hope there is some sort of protection order to keep him from speaking with her until he’s of legal age, and maybe even after that if they can. There is no excuse for this sort of behavior, I don’t care if they both wanted it or not. As the ADULT MOTHER she should have resisted temptation (OMG GROSS!) with her son! I know that is something I will never have to worry about, but just thinking about that makes me cringe. I will strangle a woman if she tries sleeping with my 14 year old son (who is only 3 now lol)… But seriously, wtf? I can’t imagine the life the boy has to live now, I am sure everyone around his family, friends, peers, co-workers *if he worked*, all heard and know it’s about him. The pain doesn’t end just because the devil-mom is in jail, it’s probably a living nightmare for the boy.
And if her defense is true (which I DO NOT believe) then she should have kicked him out of her house, called his adoptive parents as well as his psychologist.
“Devil mom”… This is a creation. This is fruit of a sick imagination. These people who condem Aimee don’t really care about anyone’s life, at all. Where are the evidences that she “forced” him? You are refusing to think.
Wow, just… Wow.
“These people who condem Aimee don’t really care about anyone’s life, at all.” You must have a really highly developed sense of understanding regarding the human psyche to come up with such a concise and insightful generalization which completely and utterly captures the spirit of every single poster who says even one negative word about Aimee Louise Sword. I bow to thy wisdom.
“Where are the evidences that she “forced” him?” Don’t you mean where IS the EVIDENCE? (Grammar nazi strikes again!) And again, you’re absolutely right. Hearsay, prejudice and a dirty imagination are enough to prosecute and even convict these days. What were they thinking?
“You are refusing to think.” Of course they are! And why shouldn’t they? After all, there are always people like you to do all that thinking for them. Which, as you must know, is such hard work. Why waste all that energy? It’s a lot easier to just throw shit on a paedophile.
“This is fruit of a sick imagination.” Yes, indeed. Though don’t you mean THE fruit of a yada fucking yada?
Nobody Said He Wanted It ~ And By Law He Can’t Want It, Statutory Rape Laws Say 14 Isn’t Mature Enough To Make Such Choices.
And you lose no sleep whatsoever about the blinkered fanaticism of laws that pretend nobody ever has sexual desires until a date fixed by statute?
She’s not a “devil mom”. In Japan mother/son incest is actually fairly common compared to in the US. Plus she didn’t grow up with him, so the psychological perception isn’t the same.
If they’re both consenting adults then I don’t care (as long as they don’t have kids, I think bringing up kids in an incestuous relationship would be wrong), hell if the kid is underage but old enough to legally consent to a normal relationship I don’t care that much either.
I personally think that male homosexual relationships are unnatural, but I’m not going to sit around and condemn them to hell – and as far as underage relationships go, unless the kid is preteen then I don’t find that a huge deal either, because in some states 14 is legal with parental consent, and young men aren’t going to fall victim to “sexual trauma” as easily as young women.
that made me feel sick! i dont have any “whole” brothers or sisters i have 4 half brothers and 2 half sisters and although i only grew up with one brother and 2 sisters i still view them all as my siblings! I hate it when people use the excuse of well we didnt grow up together or we have a “deeper” connection then just relative.. if you didnt know you were related then obviously thats different.. but i think Budgiegirl makes a great point, this was a 35 YEAR OLD WOMAN and a 14 YEAR OLD BOY! the mother/son part is just the rotten cherry on top of the disgusting cake! i think she did get a “fair” punishment compared to her male counterparts… of course i think ALL sex offenders should get put to death! but whatever who am i?? i dont beat/kill/have sex with my kids so i must not know anything!!
This individual is beyond disgusting. The poor kid will be fucked up for life. And I can’t wait for her “supporters” to show up on this website.
Me either TBS. I’m limbering up as we speak.
Her supporters must be from another planet. I was on the debate team in high school and many times I had to argue points that I did not agree with. In this case, however, I wouldn’t be able to come up with shit. The more I think about this cunt, (sorry, can’t think of another word) the more I want to stomp her face completely flat.
He’ll be fucked up for life because people will bully him for it, just like how some young gay men become fucked up for life more because of the stigmata than the actual “trauma” of the incident.
I don’t think he will because:
1. He didn’t grow up with her, he met her for the first time as a teenager, so the psychological perception was that she was just a “woman” and not his mother.
2. He was a teenage boy not a child. If he had been 4 years old things would be much different.
3. In some states incest is legal if consensual, and 14 is a legal age of consent. And in countries like Japan mother/son incest is fairly common.
In the long run I think the kid will be way more harmed by having this spread all over the internet, and maybe the guilt that his mom went to prison because of him – other than that this may be weird but more harm is going to come from him being stigmatized than anything else. If that had been my mom I’d wouldn’t have minded – I would have minded if millions of people were reading about it and making fun of me for it though.
There is only one way to deal with this split tail and her ilk.
Nail her. Nail her to the wall. Maximum sentence, general pop, public disgrace, registration as a sex offender. If it can be done without harming her kids, take the kids away from her.
Heap all possible shame and disgrace and punishment on her. Eventually people who think this is no big deal, or that it’s a joke, will see it is, most certainly a very big deal, and they’ll stop laughing.
In face why not just kill this bitch. I take a very dim view of the idea that sex offenders can be rehabilitated. Violent, repeat offenders should be put out of their misery, as should those whose acts are particularly heinous, like this bitch.
I hate the expression split tail and I hate using it, but in her case it fits and I’ll make an exception.
It’s really horrifying to me how much abuse a rape victim will get, especially a male, it’s not surprising that many don’t report the crime simply because of the slander and harassment they are likely to face. The whole reason for this seems to be the nauseating assumption that men, WANT women to rape them and that a women couldn’t rape a man if he didn’t want it. The fact is, as with women, the male erectile response is completely involuntary, regardless of the victims will. There is no excuse for the heartless cruelty exhibited in this and countless other rape cases, it just goes to show that sexism, against both men and women, is far from vanquished, I can only hope that these monstrous tormentors and those they support are forced to face justice somehow.
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
I’m flattered!
BTW ignoramus, the boy wasn’t raped, he was a willing participant. And he was old enough to meet the legal age of consent in many states.
Salutatory “rape” isn’t rape at all and shouldn’t even be called such, it makes a mockery of real rape victims (ex. people physically forced to have sex against their will).
If my son was as young as 13, then I’d be fine with him having sex with any woman he wanted regardless of age or the laws. I want him getting sexually experience and developing manhood from as young an age as possible, instead of growing up to be a sissified kid who thinks that sex is “traumatic” – pretty much any other 3rd World country would be laughing at how sissified America has become in regards to sex.
I’m not even mentioning the fact that she was genetically his mother because that’s irrelevant. To me that’s about as relevant as gay/lesbian relationships assuming the participants are age of consent, or old enough that were they in a different state, they could consent.
I guess you want gay people stoned and tortured too because you perceive them as “unnatural”. Well dude take your morality and go move to Iran, the American people aren’t interested in your stone age barbaric views.
I have two teenage sons. 14 and 15. I’m too disgusted with this bitch to even comment right now. Have to vomit and collect my thoughts.
I can absolutely say with certainty that I have never once, ever, thought about screwing my son. Ever. The thought of sleeping with a family member is literally the grossest idea I have ever contemplated.
Although I did have a second cousin who was much older than me and who was handsome as hell.
Okay time for some cheap shots now.
Is that her mugshot? The head tilt, the half smile, the faux serenity she radiates, all make it repellent. What is she trying to say?
“I’m confident and unafraid. Can it be a crime, to love too much?” OR
“I glow with the certainty that my son and I share a special love. You peasants with your sexual inhibitions just don’t understand.” OR
“I am a wounded spirit, hurt by life. I reached out, searching for love in the only way I know how.”
It’s a very interesting mugshot, but I think it would be better with two black eyes, a busted nose, and a collapsed chin from no teeth being underneath.
The placid stare of a Manson Follower.
Dear Max, Thank you for posting the warning prior the the puppy video. I took heed and did not call my wife over to take a look at the video.
Unfortunately, there was no such warning at the beginning of this story, and as a result of your irrresponsibilty, I asked my wife if she had ever considered sexual relations with our 14 year old son. The conversation that followed was incredibly one-sided, with my wife doing the majority of the talking, and I am presently being viewed with nothing short of contempt and disgust.
In the future, I would appreciate it if you would post a warning concerning any possibly inflammatory subjects, especially stories that may inflame my wife. I have enough trouble making it through the day without you adding fuel to the fire.
Thank You,
Miwist
Um, this has got to be the lamest of the blame game. There’s no good time or place or situation to assume that anyone, especially your spouse, would regard this subject as an acceptable line of contemplation. If my partner asked me that, I’d assume his interest in pursuing the subject makes him a fucking weirdo and question whether I’d want to be with someone who’d ask me that. And then to blame PYSIH for your lack of discretion…..christ man!
You do know he was being sarcastic, right. I think you are being sarcastic too, but I can’t tell.
Let’s just pretend the response is as sarcastic as the original post, shall we? Anything else is just unacceptable and it might make me cry.
My apologies Miwist, but must I remind you that discretion is the better part of value?
Hmm, does that apply in your situation?
Did you feel like you were in danger at any time? That would be the deciding factor I believe.
Am I losing it?
weeeeeeeeee-we-we-we-we-we, weeeeeeeee-we-we-we-we-we
This cavernous gashmonster needs to be cored out like an apple in the most painful way possible. She doesn’t deserve the womb she abuses, or the children that come from it. There’s no way she’d ever be fit to re-enter society. What she did is unforgivable.
- I hate the death penalty….but only because I do not believe that the state has a right to take a life.
However, that being said, I am also of the unshakable belief that anyone who abuses, molests, or murders a child should be smoked. No debate. Though the punishment should fit the crime in every case. None of this sissy needle in the arm bullshit.
And this can all easily be facilitated without the government ever having to be involved because I will gladly volunteer to kill these useless fucks with my bare hands. I’m also quite sure that I could round up a few people on this site alone to “assist” me.
Ooo. Ooo. Pick me! Pick me!
Buy a vibrator and wait……….
Get a cucumer from the fridge
Lock her away so she does not after any of her other children….
If she really needed a stiffy, she’s decent enough looking such that she’d have little problem hooking up with a males of legal age who would be willing.
Hang out by a stripper bar……. get a guy that looks close to the object of the fantasies and tell the guy what is desired – shit – I’d play innocent for someone as good looking as her.
Decnt looking women – there are enough horney men out there, no need to steal innocence from a child.
Cucumber? Pfft! Nasty skank probly needs something the size of an eggplant.
Just don’t eat her watermelon at her picnics….
XD
Weird just weird:<
Now that my nausea has subsided a bit, I think I can make a comment or two about this bitch. First of all, lets forget for a moment that she was this boy’s mother. Teenage boys are the most immature creatures on this earth. And they smell funny. How a grown woman could ever be attracted to one is beyond me. Second, I can understand having some guilt issues over giving up a child. Especially if she then went on to get married and have more children. I can truly understand her wanting to make up for some things. Usually when I feel bad about how I handled a situation with my teenage boys, I buy them a fucking video game. I am having a very hard time believing that this was this poor kid’s idea……BUT EVEN IF IT WAS….my God, get your son some help! Having sex with your own son isn’t a solution to any problem on this earth. Reading the articles that demonized this poor young man left me shaking with anger, but even if I were to believe every word, so fucking what? He is still a child. No if, ands, or buts. I can not even begin to wonder how damaged this kid is now.This is a shame that will follow him his whole lifetime, and I can only pray that he can one day know that none of it was his fault.
Not that it makes anything about Ms. Sword’s actions less reprehensible, but there is an actual term for this kind of thing called Genetic Sexual Attraction. It can happen between reunited biological parents and their offspring. But unlike most bio parents, who would suppress this urge for the sake of of sanity, Ms. Sword pulled a Queen Merope and fucked up her kid’s brain for her own selflish pleasure.
It’s just an excuse to give a name to something sick – kind of like the way Pedophile is a name for people who are attracted to little kids…Just because there’s a name for it doesn’t make it okay.
Agreed.
Seems to day a name comes up, then the behavior is called a “sickness” / “illness”. Cancer is an illness, this, no matter what the name is, is evil.
Weather one calls it bullshit or manuer, it still comes from the ass of a bull and it still stinks.
You know what makes me the sickest? This article would never have to include physcological theories about genetical attraction if the sexes were reversed. the entire community would be up in arms with pitchforks and torches ready to kick some nasty ass. But since it’s a pretty woman, she gets a free pass to rape a 14 year old. I don’t care if this kid had humped every cheerleader at his school, did drugs, and sold his body on the street for money for his drugs, how does that make it okay for a 35 year old woman to hump her 14 year old son on any planet? I don’t care if he brought his barry manilow CD and bought her lingerie, it doesn’t make it okay at all ever. i hope this chick gets the full 30 years just like a man would if the sexes had been reversed. trying to villify a 14 year old boy who is now going to need psychotherapy for the rest of his life. GEE THANKS MOM!
Agreed that there is a double standard.
Most 14 year old boys are looking for a set of firm tits, a heart shaped ass and a tight fur burger….. not some skank with floppy tits, saggy ass and a hole so big that OSHA requires a safety harness before going in……
“Safety harness” . . . not bad. Or there’s always “Tractor trailer . . .AND made a U-turn”
Seriously though – a few beers in a dim bar and she’d look good enough for a man like me in my 40′s to do!
Well, I’m not a man so our perspective is different, but . . . seriously? REALLY, Fred? Honest to God,man — you cn do better than that!!
Thank You, I have done better.
But if I am in the mood for a human toilet, she’s looking good!
I can’t decide if the article, “Is Aimee Louise Sword A Pedophile?”, was written by a man or a woman. The talk about extremist feminism and political correctness makes me think “man.” But I can’t fathom any man in his right senses defending this lump of shit. I can’t get my head around it, even though, over the years, I’ve talked with smart men I respected, who I knew were good people, but once the subject of woman on boy sex came up, they immediately began smirking, talking about how lucky the kid was, or just dismissed it “he wasn’t hurt, it was what he wanted.” Can’t the men who perpetuate this double standard, see the big picture? That one of their own has been hurt, and they’re excusing the perp?
The title of the article kills me. His/her next big article will be called “Is water wet?” followed by “Is murder bad?”
This disgusted me on every level!
Two people involved and Aimee & the Son, and Aimee was the adult (and parent) . It’s clear who is at fault and responsible.
I agree this is sick, but I also have to say that maybe it’s time to have a sense of proportion: no one was killed or injured, and neither party appears to have been coerced into doing anything. Wrong? YES. Sick? YES. But compared to a lot of the people profiled here, this is almost a non-event. Yes, the son is a victim and the mother deserves some sort of punishment….but 30 years in prison? You could kill a busload of nuns and not get that stiff a sentence.
Please don’t think for a moment that I support ANY of what went on- I don’t. But I also see two people who didn’t hurt anyone, kill anyone, or physically injure anyone. I don’t think 30 years in prison is appropriate considering lots of stone-cold murderers get off with much less.
I only see one person that didn’t hurt anyone and that’s the boy. I would say thirty years is too light considering the poor kid will never be able to hear the word motherfucker without feeling a sense of dirtiness that he can’t wash away. Do you also think it impossible for young girls to be “coerced” into having sex with much older men? Or are they making mature, informed decisions to freely have sex with someone old enough to be their dad? Was the kid making a mature, informed decision? I see someone who has been damaged greatly and it’s kind of strange to me that someone could not see that.
> Do you also think it impossible for young girls to
> be “coerced” into having sex with much older men?
No, but at the same time there are young girls who are mature enough to make decisions about what they do and don’t want to do. It’s not the same thing, and by framing it as “to be coerced” you’ve already satisfied the answer you want to hear. When I was his age I went to bed with older women, and I knew what I was doing. No one coerced me- it was my choice. Does that make me or them terrible people?
> Was the kid making a mature, informed decision?
Informed? If he knew it was his mother, then yes, he was, sad to say, making an “informed” decision. Not a good one, but if he knew it was his mother then he knew what he was doing. If not, then no, it was not an informed decision. Either way she should be punished, but 30 years seems excessive to me for a crime like this. Like I said, you can kill people, actually murder them and not get that much time. Does that seem reasonable?
As far as whether it was a “mature” decision, that’s too subjective a term to make any judgment on- what’s mature for one person is different than for another. Again, please understand I’m not condoning any part of this, what I’m saying is that things aren’t always black and white.
> considering the poor kid will never be able to hear the
> word motherfucker without feeling a sense of dirtiness
> that he can’t wash away.
I’ve known people who were molested and the effect is as varied as it can be. Some are traumatized for life, some put it behind them and move on. It’s too early to tell what effect this will have on him over the next ten or twenty years. People are resilient and can recover from amazingly horrible shit (which is how I’d classify this whole thing).
> I see someone who has been damaged greatly and it’s
> kind of strange to me that someone could not see that.
The fact is that neither you nor I really know how damaged he is or will be. It may turn out that this isn’t going to destroy his life or send him off the deep end. We just don’t know and I’m not going to pretend I can foretell the future.
Trust me, I’m as horrified as anyone about what she did. No way am I defending what she did in any way, shape, or form. What I am saying is that 30 years in prison seems excessive to me. You can murder a whole family and get less time than that. Many of the cases profiled here end up with 5 or 10 or 20 year sentences, and that’s for far more heinous crimes.
Another thing to think about: I’m married to a woman who is (technically) young enough to be my daughter (20 years younger). I’m older than her father was before he passed away. Does that automatically make me a bad person in your eyes because of the age difference? I assure you that my wife wasn’t coerced into marrying me. She’s an adult and married me of her own free will. Do you feel she was “tricked” into marrying me, or that she was unable to make an “informed decision” about marrying me?
Of course you’re not a bad person because your wife is much younger than you, unless you didn’t wait for her to be of age before you started sleeping with her. The women you slept with with as a child had a serious problem. That was sexual abuse. You might have enjoyed it, but it was still abuse. They make laws against statutory rape for a reason. For two people to give consent, they must be on the same playing field.
As far as I understood from the article, he DID NOT know the first time that they were, in fact, mother and son. That takes out informed right there.
In my opinion, most of the crimes featured on this site have sentences that are far too light. Sometimes I want to cry when I hear the punishments. I can’t help but think that if you had a fourteen year old daughter that was sleeping with a 35 year old man, you would feel differently. She might think they are “soul mates” and their love is “special”. You would most likely think he was a manipulative scum bag, deserving of thirty years in prison.
Of the older women you went to bed with, was one of them your mother?
This is not an issue of an adult sleeping with a young person. This is an issue of a parent seducing her child. You’re mixing up two different things.
“30 years in prison? You could kill a busload of nuns and not get that stiff a sentence.” “I don’t think 30 years in prison is appropriate considering lots of stone-cold murderers get off with much less.” “30 years in prison seems excessive to me. You can murder a whole family and get less time than that. Many of the cases profiled here end up with 5 or 10 or 20 year sentences, and that’s for far more heinous crimes.”
I agree most prison sentences for murder, heinous crimes, are too light. But do you really think the solution lies in lighter sentences for people like Sword? Really, Mike?
I’d like to see her get 30 years at least, and I’d like to see the other perps get worse.
Maybe I misunderstood and you weren’t calling for a lighter sentence for Sword. You did say you deplore her actions.
> unless you didn’t wait for her to be of age before
> you started sleeping with her.
Well it was either adopt her or marry her. :) (I’m kidding)
> The women you slept with with as a child had
> a serious problem. That was sexual abuse.
No they didn’t, and no it wasn’t. That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it, although I disagree. I wasn’t forced into anything and they didn’t trick me or manipulate me into doing anything. No one suffered because of it and no one was harmed. Fact is, I’m having a very hard time seeing how it was “abuse”. Who was abused? Not me, and not them. So what constituted “abuse”? Where was the abuse?
> For two people to give consent, they must be on
> the same playing field.
In general I’d say “yes”, but know one can quantify what that field is or where it starts and stops, or how to measure what you call “same”, i.e. a “level” playing field.
> he DID NOT know the first time that they were, in
> fact, mother and son. That takes out informed right there.
Correct, and it transforms that incident into plain old sex between two people of different ages who wanted it. If she hadn’t been his mother we would have all rolled our eyes, but that’s where it would likely have ended. The fact that she was his mom is where it all goes off the rails for me. It’s inexcusable in the extreme, to put it mildly. But consider this…what if this had occurred in a situation where they didn’t know they were mother and son? It would again be just plain old sex between two people of different ages. The “off-the-rails” part for most people is the fact that they were mother and son, not that there was a large age difference.
> I can’t help but think that if you had a fourteen year old
> daughter that was sleeping with a 35 year old man, you
> would feel differently. … You would most likely think
> he was a manipulative scum bag, deserving of thirty
> years in prison.
I might think that if she was 35 as well. Or I might not. What if she was 14 and her boyfriend was 16? Or what if he was 35 and she was 17 years and 364 days old? Does she magically become “mature” and “capable” of making informed decisions when she turns 18 at the stroke of midnight? No, it’s all relative to each person and what level of maturity they possess. I’ve seen 50 year olds that I wouldn’t trust to apply a band-aid. And I’ve also seen some 15 year olds who could probably perform a successful field tracheotomy. Age is no indicator of *anything* except in a general statistical sense. And that’s especially true of sex and what people want to do with their bodies.
Where my wife is from it’s not unusual for there to be 20 years or in some cases even 30 years age difference between man and wife. And it seems to work just fine. In fact it seems to work a hell of a lot better than over here. The divorce rate is very low and most of the couples (of which I know quite a few) are genuinely happy and have solid, supportive marriages. No, none of the wives are 14, but quite a few are 17 or 18. The reason 14 year olds don’t get married there is because they don’t *want* to, not because the world would implode if they did.
Seriously, where do you draw the line? Exactly how many years age difference should there be between people having sex, and should it differ with the age of the participants? Should a 15 year old be “allowed” to have sex with a 25 year old (regardless of who is older)? How about a 16 year old?
When I was 14 and having sex I enjoyed it. No one forced me, no one coerced me, and no one was harmed. It seems unlikely that I would be the only person in the world who can make that statement, no?
Although I would love to give a lengthy explanation on the difference between an adult and even the most mature 14 year old on the planet, but my kid spilled a drink on my laptop and my phone gives 250 characters to work with.
So for awhile I’ll have to be a woman of few words and many posts. (Sorry guys.) Point is, in my opinion, any adult that looks at a 14 yr. old as a sexual being has a problem. True, some kids look like grown ups, but their not.
When finding out their age, something inside us, as adults should change. We should want to steer them right direction. Not fuck them. Maybe you were very mature at 14, Mike, but I’m betting your mom still still reminded you to wear deodorant periodically
I agree, Gina. Whether it’s a woman or a man, looking at a boy or a girl, they have a problem.
They’re not*
What about the places in the world where 14 is considered old enough to give consent?
Thanks for the grammer correction, vomiting. Your a real help. As explained above, only have so many letters to work with on a tiny screen. So sorry to everyone that it bothers so badly they feel they need to point it out to me.
And it’s also perfectly to drown your daughter in the family pool if she “dishonors” her family name in some parts of the world. That doesn’t make it okay here. Can’t believe you missed the although/but mistake in my first comment. You’re slippin.
“> he DID NOT know the first time that they were, in
> fact, mother and son. . . .
Correct, and it transforms that incident into plain old sex between two people of different ages who wanted it.”
MIke, you’re wrong. You couldn’t be more wrong. They were mother and son, they will always be mother and son. The kid knowing or not knowing doesn’t “transform” that. Nothing transforms that.
Maybe you mean, in the sense of guilt, the kid becomes innocent, or not guilty, because he didn’t know? I’m guessing here, because I honestly cannot fathom what you mean. Of course the kid was never really guilty to begin with.
In the kid’s mind, if he didn’t know he was doing his mother, then in his mind they were two people who wanted sex. However, objective reality has not changed one iota, and it won’t. They are still mother and son. They always will be. I think your arguing is very mixed up.
Mike, in a little while I’m going to argue with you some more, but I wanted to say first I hope my replies to you don’t sound angry or unreasonable. I tend to get mad easily and get carried away (other posters here are going NAAAHHH! as they read that) but I want to address you reasonably. You seem like an intelligent, well meaning person in your posts. I respect that.
(I thought I already posted the below but don’t see it. Hope it doesn’t appear twice.)
Mike, when I was 14 I enjoyed skipping school . No one forced me, no one coerced me, and no one was harmed. So by your logic it is okay for 14 year olds to skip school?
The 14 or thereabouts year old girl throwing puppies into the river looks like she’s enjoying herself. So by your logic it’s okay to destroy animals cruelly, and gloat over it?
Enjoyment in and of itself does not make a thing okay.
You have quite a way with words E, and compared to me–well actually we tend to have similar reactions so I guess that would make us brothers in crazy eh?
Mike, I by all means understand what you are saying. I had sex at fifteen, and while no one forced me, in hindsight I may have waited longer. Now, the guys I slept with were in my same age range, so while we weren’t smart enough to make a lot of life decisions, we were at least on the same playing field, and no one was raping anyone. When an adult (as legally defined in these United States) fucks a child it is LEGAL RAPE. You can jibberjabber about “Nobody forced me” all the livelong day, but it doesn’t change the fact that by legal definition, you were a victim. As is this poor boy.
Please call a hotline. Someone will help you.
The first step is admitting there is a problem It’s the hardest step, but you can do it.
Why do you exclude the possibility that it is the LAW that is the problem?
because you’re a moron.
and I say this for more reasons then your replying to a comment made more than a year and a half ago. have a nice day
E says:
“Mike, when I was 14 I enjoyed skipping school . No one forced me, no one coerced me, and no one was harmed. So by your logic it is okay for 14 year olds to skip school?”
E, please don’t be stupid. Are you equating skipping school with having sex?
E says:
“The 14 or thereabouts year old girl throwing puppies into the river looks like she’s enjoying herself. So by your logic it’s okay to destroy animals cruelly, and gloat over it?”
Now you’re really being stupid. I won’t even ask if you equate throwing puppies in a river with having sex (apparently you do, on some level).
Okaayyyy.
Mike, I’m still going to make an effort at being reasonable here. In my post about skipping school and throwing the puppies, I could have expressed myself more clearly. Maybe I misled you.
Reading your posts about the older women when you slept with, when you were — 14 was it? — I may have misunderstood you. I thought you were saying: “No one was harmed — no one was coerced — we enjoyed ourselves — therefore what we did was harmless.”
You did mention no harm, no coercion. I read in the “enjoyment” part. I assume it was enjoyable? If it was, then that’s why I said what I did — that enjoyment, in and of itself, is not a sufficient reason for doing something, anything.
Maybe the puppy pitching was a bad example, because it’s such a blatantly horrifying thing to do. But the school skipping and the 14 year old having sex with an older woman require some thinking. Is it really true that no one is hurt when 14 year old E skips school, or when 14 year old Mike has sex with an adult woman? It may feel good in the short term. Maybe nobody walks away with an injury. But aren’t these activities society should discourage? Kids with no direction, no framework to push against, sort of taking things as they come — I’m not saying a kid’s every moment should be regimented, but you seem like an intelligent person and I’m sure if you think a little bit more you’ll understand what I mean.
Whether you agree or not is a whole other thing. I want to be sure I’m making myself clear. The way you leaped into the “stupid” name calling, made me think “Gosh gee whillikers! Guess I didn’t make my argument too well!”
Wondermom said:
I had sex at fifteen, and while no one forced me, in hindsight I may have waited longer. but it doesn’t change the fact that by legal definition, you were a victim. Please call a hotline. Someone will help you.
Why don’t you call the hotline, Wondermom, since by your own definition you were a “victim”? (I’ll wait why you come up with a good reason not too.)
Mike, whether you want to believe it or not, if you were 15 and you were having sex with an adult, and I’m not talking an 18 or 19 year old, you were raped. There’s even a name for people like your partner – pedophile.
Sure you enjoyed it – sex feels good. but it messed with your head, The proof is that you’re here trying to convince a bunch of strangers that you just fine and dandy.
The reason adults should not run around trying to have sex with kids under a certain age is simple. Adults have a fully developed brain and have a major advantage over their potential conquest.
Children, even teenagers, do not have a fully developed brain and aren’t very good at making decisions, especially ones that involve emotions and hormones. If you managed to convince a woman that is 20 years younger than you to marry you, then you are the fucking man! – I mean that with all sincerity. But if she was a 15 or 16 years old girl when you started seeing her, well, I’m not so sure.
You can teach a 14 year old girl to behave more maturely than her contemporaries, but you can change the fact that she has a 14 year old brain.
It’s a question of morals for adults like us, but for them, it’s all about their physiology. And no one, except perhaps God if you’re a believer, can change that.
E said:
“Mike, in a little while I’m going to argue with you some more, but I wanted to say first I hope my replies to you don’t sound angry or unreasonable.”
This reply seemed reasonable to me, but your other replies were just provocative silliness. I see no value in taking the time to provide a substantive response to them.
Well, I haven’t reread the replies you accuse of being provocatively silly, so I can’t feel sure, but I honestly remember posting in a spirit of trying to politely disagree. Maybe my method of politely disagreeing is different from yours.
E said:
“MIke, you’re wrong. You couldn’t be more wrong. They were mother and son, they will always be mother and son. The kid knowing or not knowing doesn’t “transform” that. Nothing transforms that.”
No, you’re completely missing the point, either by accident or on purpose. If neither of them knew, then in their minds to *them* it wasn’t incest (because they didn’t know they were mother and son). Make no mistake, it WAS incest even if they didn’t know about it, but it wouldn’t have been as far as they were *aware*.
Maybe I’m missing the boat here, but doesn’t the article state that she DID in fact know he was her son? That isn’t “just sex” because they were unaware. That makes her one crazy bitch.
You’re quite right Maria – she’d been communicating with him as his biomom for quite a while before she actually met him is person. Everyone was very clear on who was who.
“If neither of them knew, then in their minds to *them* it wasn’t incest (because they didn’t know they were mother and son). Make no mistake, it WAS incest even if they didn’t know about it, but it wouldn’t have been as far as they were *aware*.”
Mike, I think we’ve both said the same thing. Your statement is above. Here’s mine:
“In the kid’s mind, if he didn’t know he was doing his mother, then in his mind they were two people who wanted sex. However, objective reality has not changed one iota, and it won’t. They are still mother and son. They always will be.”
I’m hungry for my Labor Day barbecue and maybe not thinking clearly? But those statements seem to express the same idea to me.
“When an adult (as legally defined in these United States) fucks a child it is LEGAL RAPE.”
I don’t disagree. What’s your point?
Then, you wouldn’t disagree, that the women who slept with you when you were 14, raped you?
I’m not being provocatively silly here. If I were, you’d know it.
I stand by one of your earlier statements, that your arguments seem a tad mixed up.
Sorry should have been “I stand by one of MY earlier statements.”
Maria said:
“Maybe I’m missing the boat here, but doesn’t the article state that she DID in fact know he was her son? That isn’t “just sex” because they were unaware.”
Yes, she knew. I was asking a “what if” question. It seems clear that she knew since she apparently tracked him down in order to meet him.
“That makes her one crazy bitch.”
At the very least, and that’s putting it mildly. But is 30 years in prison a reasonable punishment for what she did? Personally I think it’s excessive, considering that most of the criminals profiled here commit *far* worse crimes and get significantly less time.
Hi Max, good to see you weighing in. Love the site!
> whether you want to believe it or not, if you were 15 and
> you were having sex with an adult, and I’m not talking an
> 18 or 19 year old, you were raped.
So…how many years difference must there be before it turns into rape? 2 years? 5 years? 5 years and 3 months? What’s the magic number? And are you seriously telling me that *every* person who had my experience was abused, and that it “messed with” their heads? Seriously- every single one? No exceptions at all? C’mon- you know better than that.
> Sure you enjoyed it – sex feels good. but it messed with
> your head, The proof is that you’re here trying to convince
> a bunch of strangers that you just fine and dandy.
That’s because a bunch of strangers are attempting to diagnose me without knowing anything about me, Max. It’s like me telling you that you’re hungry. Only you can tell me if you’re hungry- it’s not something I can decide or rule on for you. You haven’t eaten in 6 hours? Well, *I* say you’re hungry, no matter what *you* think.
The fact is that it didn’t mess with my head, but for you to assume that and frame it that way says quite a bit about how you view human interaction and relationships.
In my situation you weren’t there and have no idea what went on. Nevertheless you somehow feel confident enough to tell me what actually happened and how it must have affected me. Say that out loud and tell me if you don’t feel kind of silly. Then put yourself in my place and see if you don’t laugh out loud when you hear it.
For me it was just sex. It didn’t warp my brain or turn me into a serial killer. It didn’t screw up my later relationships. If some people here are simply unable to believe or understand that, too bad. I can’t help what other people want to believe. And I wouldn’t dare try to tell them what *they* should think about their own personal experiences.
“That roller coaster ride you went on when you were 9? You *thought* you liked it, but actually it scared you. Yes, yes, I know *you* say it didn’t traumatize you or mess with your head, but *I* know it did. And the fact that you’re denying it proves that yes, it really did mess with your head. Because 9 is too young to go on a roller coaster- everyone knows that.”
> Adults have a fully developed brain and have a major
> advantage over their potential conquest.
Case in point: your view of sex and relationships is that of the “conquest” model. One person has to be “conquered” and the other is (of course) the “conqueror”. Not all of us view relationships that way.
> Children, even teenagers, do not have a fully developed brain
> and aren’t very good at making decisions, especially ones
> that involve emotions and hormones.
True, but that doesn’t mean they *can’t* make “good decisions” or that they’re incapable of knowing what they want. It doesn’t preclude them from making valid choices. And as far as “not being able to make good decisions”, you and I both know plenty of adults who fit that description. Age is not the only yardstick to measure decision making ability by.
> If you managed to convince a woman that is 20 years
> younger than you to marry you, then you are the fucking man!
Again, that kind of statement tends to show that you view relationships as some sort of inherently dishonest or adversarial kind of thing. There was no “convincing” involved, Max. When I showed your comment to my wife, she just smiled and shook her head. You might as well have said that I “convinced” my stomach to digest my lunch.
First off, the crack about you being the man was a joke. Second of all, anytime an adult and a CHILD get into a sexual relationship, it is a conquest for the adult. That’s why we call adults who do that sort of thing predators. If any grown man had tried to hook up with my 14-year-old daughter, and I’d found out about it, that guy would probably be a cripple, or worse.
We’re supposed to protect our children, not use them like guinea pigs so the handful that may be able to handle an adult relationship get to satisfy the 100′s of thousands of pedophiles who are lines up waiting for a crack at them. You can take all your hypotheticals and stick them up your ass Mike. In this world, the real world, adults don’t have sex with children, and the law defines that as anyone under the age of 18. If you choose to break that law, you’ve committed statutory rape. Maybe there’s a handful of cases where that law appears to be applied unfairly, but that’s the price we pay so all our children can be safe from creeps who see them as only as sexual objects.
And one more thing – For someone who doesn’t like being diagnosed by amateurs, you didn’t seem to mind doing it to me. Where you got the idea that I view all relationships between men and women as adversarial because of one little joke I made is beyond me – Between adult and kids, yes, but between consenting adults, of course not.
You’re an arrogant little prick Mike, and my first mistake was trying to be civil with you. My second mistake was believing that you thought what happened in this story was wrong. I won’t be making any more mistakes.
My daughter just turned 13 last month. She’s beautiful and she’s got the body of a grown woman. Thank you for letting me know there are still men out there that I don’t have to worry about. Ever notice how they are usually fathers of girls?
Ages of consent vary by jurisdiction,and in most states of the USA it is under 18.
True, there is no witching hour where a teen magically turns into an adult. You don’t automatically learn to drive the day you turn 16 either. It takes practice, trial and error, and learning (or not learning) from past mistakes.
Thank God that the law recognizes that this process takes years, otherwise we’d have assholes running around fucking our 14 year old kids, claiming they’re “mature” enough. Btw- I wouldn’t show wifey too much of your post. She may become concerned.
Mike, I only skimmed the above post, because frankly you’re getting a little tiresome. The impression I get — yes, I’m diagnosing you, without knowing you — is that you have a problem with subjectivity, making value judgments, assessing things and people.
Yes, some teenagers are more mature than some adults. So?
Yes, if your daughter had a 35 year old boyfriend he might very well be as obnoxious and easy to hate as most teenagers are. So?
I’m going to lecture you, Mike, and you will probably shrilly denounce me for it. Go ahead. Society has got to be subjective. Society has got to draw some lines, and they may be arbitrary. Society has got to pass judments on groups, based on what most group members are like, most of the time. Some people will be misjudged. Some people will fall through the cracks.
Just think what things would be like if we weren’t. If everybody were “doing their own thing.” Didn’t we try that once? In the 1960s?
You were sexually initiated at a young age, your wife is foreign born, and you no doubt think you’re a terribly sophisticated fellow. You may disagree with all of the above. But it does make sense, and deep down you know that.
Sorry that should have been “judgments.” I can hear and smell those sizzling steaks, and they’re making me crazy.
> You’re an arrogant little prick Mike, and my first mistake
> was trying to be civil with you.
I’m sorry you feel that way. I’ve been civil with you (as far as I know) and understand how you feel about this whole thing. You may be surprised to find out that I’m in agreement with most of what you’ve said, but I also understand that not everything is black and white. Absolutes are difficult things to apply in the real world.
> My second mistake was believing that you thought
> what happened in this story was wrong. I won’t be making
> any more mistakes.
Well, no offense, but that’s a mistake right there, Max. I feel what happened in this story was 100% wrong. There is NO excuse for what this mother did and I’ve said as much several times (check my comments). I most certainly DO think she should be punished; I just feel that 30 years is extreme for what she did in light of other sentences handed down for other, far more heinous crimes profiled on this site.
If you prefer that I’d not participate here, just say so. I’m not trying to make trouble for anyone.
As for the “you the man” crack, please understand that I’ve taken more than my share of shit over the age difference between my wife and I, as well as for the fact that she’s from another country. You’re not the first person by to make “funny” comments about us. If you’d like to make a few “love me long time” jokes about her then you’ll complete the set. It’s okay, I’ve heard them all before. Take care, Max.
I don’t know about everyone else, but I love a good debate. What has tempers flaring is that it really sounds as if you are arguing that it’s okay for an adult to have sex with a kid as long as it’s not forcibly, and the kid appears to be mature.
I think Gina is on the right track here. I’ve read all your comments a few times now, and I can’t help but feel a bit confused. You make a couple of good points, but then you divert the attention from them with comments regarding, among other things, your own sexuality and sexual maturity at a young age, the legal age of consent, the age gap between partners, the maturity of girls, and so on. Comments which, as Gina states, make it appear – please note that I’m not saying this is how it is, only that this is how it appears to an outsider – as if you are ready and willing to defend paedophiles.
You state several times that you do not, under any circumstances, accept the kind of behavior displayed by Aimee Sword, and you agree when Wondermom says that when an adult fucks a child, it’s legally speaking rape. Yet at the same time you question the legal boundaries, especially the ones regarding age of consent, and see – or give the indication of seeing – no difference between a 14-year old having sex with a 16-year old and a 35-year old having sex with someone one day shy of turning 18.
Confusing? Hell, yeah. Maybe because that’s a comparison that just doesn’t work. Why? Because a 35-year old is in no way comparable to a 14, 16 or almost 18-year old, no matter how much you want to claim they’re equally well developed sexually. Unless you live in a cocoon, and are being fed through tubes, if you’re 35 years of age, you are, in today’s society, expected to have a better knowledge of not only life and how things work, but also of your own place in the greater scheme of things, than if you’re 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, take your pick. Which highlights the thing that bugs me the most about your arguments – you don’t give much consideration to emotional maturity.
Before you get your nuts in a twist, let me just say that I understand – and agree – that drawing a universally accepted line defining the boundary of sexual maturity is an impossible task. All of us mature – sexually and emotionally – at different speeds. A good friend of mine had her first boyfriend – and sexual encounter – at the age of 13. (And before you get any funny ideas, he was 16.) She was also bullied in school when her breasts started to grow long before any of the other girls in her class began getting some curves. I, on the other hand, was a late bloomer. So, legally speaking, the age of consent has to be a compromise. There is no magic number. And though you raised the question, I didn’t see you try to provide an answer, or an alternative solution, in any of your posts. If you have one, please let us know.
The same goes for the age difference. The way I see it, there’s no point in even trying to figure out an ideal age difference. 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, who cares? If it works, it works. Though, once again, there’s a huge – HUGE – difference between 15 and 35, and 25 and 45. And here I can’t help but get the feeling that this is a difference you don’t seem to see. That, at least, is the impression you give.
Then again, regarding your sexual exploits as a young boy – you sure go out of your way to defend not only your own actions but those of the women you fucked. Now, I’ve never met you, so I have no idea of what kind of a guy you are, and thus I am forced to base my assuptions on what you’ve written here, but this gives me hope that you do, in fact, realize that what you did was, in a moral as well as a legal sense, wrong. Sure, it might have felt good at the time. But here, on this forum, by defending those women, you are effectively defending paedophilia.
Go back to Budgiegirl’s story. Check out the part about gender reversal. See what I mean? This is most likely why you are taking a verbal beating here.
I honestly don’t know if I’m just misunderstanding you here, or if you’re just having a hard time finding the words to get your point across. Whatever it is, another reason you’re getting such strong reactions is that your comments contain more than the legal limit of arrogance. This may just be due to the way you write, but has probably more to do with the fact that you raise a lot of questions but don’t seem prepared to give any answers, and that you use repetition to get your point across.
Oh, and if you read Budgiegirl’s story again, you’d notice that she did know he was her son. So there goes that argument of yours.
On a final note, a small comment about the beginning. This whole discussion began because you stated that the punishment didn’t fit the crime. This reminded me of the story of Greg Stewart, a teacher who – legally speaking – molested a pupil (he was caught before it got too physical). I had, at first, a hard time voting for him to burn. Until I went through the case once again and realized the psychological trauma the girl went through. It’s a similar situation here. There’s a reason why being called a motherfucker is considered an insult, and why this particular insult – in one form or another – is found in so many cultures and languages.
You’re right, compared to other crimes, the sentence seems excessive. But where I agree with E, and disagree with you, is in your assertion that this should mean her sentence should be lessened. No, it shouldn’t. The discrepancy between the punishment for incestual rape of a minor and murder speaks more of the inadequacies of the legal system than of the natures of the crimes.
Well said, Homer.
Homer, YOU SAID IT. Your first two paragraphs said very concisely what I struggled to say in my verbose, overly explanatory fashion.
Mike comes at the argument from different directions at once. He “doesn’t disagree” that adult on child sex is rape, yet his own activities as a 14 year old were okay. No one was coerced, and it was enjoyable (yes, he did say that in one of his posts; I coudln’t find it last night but I did just now), so that makes everything a-ok.
He feels Sword’s sentence is too harsh, in view of what other offenders get. A fine argument, but it doesn’t go far enough, and when some of us suggested, “Then the other offenders should receive worse punishment, but don’t let Sword off lightly,” he was strangely silent.
He seems so proud of having a foreign born wife who looks different. I kept seeing a little kid with his hand up in class, one arm propping up the other, fingers wriggling as he tries to get the teacher’s attention.
I think he feels out of place and not quite sure of himself. He can’t seem to think things through or reconcile conflicting opinions or emotions.
(Yes, Mike, I’m diagnosing you again. [He seemed to bid farewell to the site, but I feel sure he's still reading posts.] You called me stupid, and I took it without a murmur. Now it’s your turn.)
Now, none of that — the uncertainty, the mental struggles — would matter a hoot in hell, except that the Mikes of the world serve on juries. And the Swords walk among us.
That’s what worries me.
Gee, Mike. I was all set to make a nice gesture to you, and you pulled the rug out from under me.
I had noticed that one of your first posts said “where my wife is from”. That passed without comment from the other posters, and later you brought the same thing up again, mentioning your wife is from another country.
I thought, “He’s mentioned it twice now, that he has a foreign wife. Is he hoping someone will notice?”
I thought, “His wife must be from someplace ‘exotic.’ She must look non European, as he states he’s taken ‘more than my share of shit’ because ‘she’s from another country.’ ”
“Probably she’s from Africa. Or maybe Asia,” I thought. “Many of the men I’ve known with Asian wives, seem to talk about it a lot for some reason. They bring into the conversation right away that their wife is Asian. Mike is probably the same way. Poor guy, so broad minded in his choice of mate, and no one here has noticed. Okay, I’m in a good mood. I’ll do him a favor and ask. Then he can talk about how advanced his wife’s culture is, how they don’t make a fuss over silly things like adults having sex with children. And he’ll get some warm fuzzies.”
Then lo and behold Mike you made a “love me long time” joke. You gave the game away: your wife is Asian I assume, and I lost my chance to extend a hand of friendship and enable you to oh so casually show us how “le continentale” you are.
Oh well. You got it across to us in your own way, so I’m sure you’re happy now.
> I’m going to lecture you, Mike, and you will probably
> shrilly denounce me for it.
No, I won’t shrilly denounce you. You’re entitled to your opinions (just as I am to mine). I appreciate the thought you’ve put into what you’ve written, even if we disagree. Fair enough?
> You were sexually initiated at a young age, your wife is
> foreign born, and you no doubt
> think you’re a terribly sophisticated fellow.
No, I don’t think I’m sophisticated, and I’d never use that term to describe myself. It’s definitely not something I’ve ever been accused of (at least until now, lol).
> You may disagree with all of the above. But it does make
> sense, and deep down you know that.
I really *don’t* know that or feel that way, deep down or otherwise.
> I honestly don’t know if I’m just misunderstanding you
> here, or if you’re just having a hard time finding the
> words to get your point across.
Probably a little bit of both (undoubtedly a bit of the latter). I’ve almost certainly not been as clear as I would have liked to be.
I had a much longer reply written, but I’m not going to post it. I don’t think it would be productive and I don’t think it would dispel the assumptions that have been made regarding what I do and don’t support. I don’t think there would be much gained from it, and I think we’ll end up circling around the same issues without ever resolving anything (and probably getting more and more heated along the way). Suffice it to say that there’s been more than a bit of misunderstanding as to what I think is “okay” in terms of behavior.
Most of the people here have responded thoughtfully and I thank those that did for that. I respect what people have said here (with a few exceptions, lol).
My apologies if I came across as arrogant; it wasn’t intentional. Maybe it’s genetic. Mom always said I was the Bad One. ;)
[............../.]
Arrogance-O-Meter
I didn’t start this thread with the intention of creating a flame war or pissing people off. My original comment was that I thought the sentence was out of proportion to the crime (and I still do). But make no mistake about it, the mother most certainly *did* commit a very serious crime. It was sick and abusive. She’s totally at fault and I don’t attach *any* blame whatsoever to the son. She should serve time in jail and I’d be f*cking outraged if she didn’t. I hope that’s clear.
The last thing I’d like to mention is kind of a side topic: using “morality” as the basis of an argument. The term has been used here a few times in various contexts.
Morality often seems to provide very clear-cut boundaries for “right” and “wrong” to a lot of people, but it’s a shaky thing to base arguments on. What’s considered “moral” varies enormously with time and place.
For example, not that long ago in the United States it was “morally” and legally wrong to allow blacks and women to vote. Or to allow people from two different races to marry (yes, there were actually laws against it, see ‘Loving v. Virginia’). No one, and I mean no one would support those views today. But at one time it was indeed the “moral” standard and it was widely supported.
Everything that’s judged as “moral” or “immoral” (including murder) has gone both ways in history. The bible itself provides lots of “moral” justifications to murder people for all sorts of things that are considered ridiculous today (planting two different crops in the same field, working on the Sabbath, wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread, etc etc).
I think using “morality” as a basis for your argument often allows people to discount your views and hammer you into the ground like a tent peg. For me, “ethics” seems to be a more reasonable thing for me to base arguments on, but that’s just me. ETTO, YMMV, etc etc.
Anyway, cheers to all of you. I still love the site, even if Max thinks I should burn in hell. :)
Should Mike Burn In Hell?
[ ] Yes, forever and ever, writhing in pain and agony and stuff
[ ] Maybe
[ ] Absolutely
[ ] Positively
[ ] Has to be there Overnight
[ ] Sure, why not
[ ] Make him listen to Lady Gaga instead
Oh, if not for this, I’d have stayed on my back and rested more.
Hi, my horse rode in last night, and boy are my legs tired, my back sore, and don’t know why he had to use the spurs so much.
That pretty much cover it?
These are the jokes folks, and this seems to be the pattern here. You’re being baited into the illusion and that illusion is being sold to the hilt until the reveal. This particular argument has been ruled by the fallacy of the misplaced concretion. Just because the victim becomes okay with the crime and/or gains a benefit from the crime, a dependence on that crime, does not constitute a good that supersedes the act of the crime. I don’t care if Mike or a middle schooler or even the son in this story liked getting the sexual gratification. The fact that the sex was “good” doesn’t make the act “good.”
What’s the best age? the age society gets comfortable enough with to pass a law and/or amend a law. The legal age to vote was constitutionally 21. For awhile there, people messed around with the whole slave ownership thing and thought it was cool to give Junior 50 slaves when he was a 5 year old and let him vote because he was a slave owner. This did not fly for long. What caused society to change, was watching men die in foreign wars they had no say in the governance of. They changed the legal vote to 18. Modern psychologists might rightly argue that the change fails to allow that we are not mentally adults for sure until age 25. I’m cool as are most of society with the 18 year old cut-off.
When is it okay to sex up someone? Well, conscious has become a reasonable requirement since the 1970′s when various date rape drugs started becoming illegal. Willing, even in marriage is still iffy in a lot of states. Date rape is unfortunately not fully illegal in all 50 and all of the territories, but Mike here brought up his Asian bride, and I could give a giant flip, except he may have made her a citizen here. There’s a term called sexual slavery. I don’t care if your wife loves the hair on your toes and fell in love at first sight, but sexual slavery, if this is the case, should see you in a prison cell. “but if she’s okay with it..” you might presuppose, but then I’d point at the Manson girls in their support of Charlie Manson, and go, get your head fixed. You might scream straw man, but I’d win that argument, and you’d have to cry when I did. You might argue verbosity, but you’ve got 10 pages here bub, I’m only needing this one.
1. The participants need to be willing.
2. The will needs to be without duress and fully formed and legal in the eyes of the observing population
3. No slavery (still part of the willing, but there are connotations that still have to be covered here), including coercion of the owners of the will.
2 is generally 18, formally much lower in most States, and disgusting to many degrees to others. When I was in my 20′s, an 18 year old looked like the best thing in the world. Now I want to get them a glass of milk and a blanket and see if they need a bedtime story. I’m in my 30′s, I still want sex 9 times a day, but an 18 year old will only be able to perform the sex and make me a sandwich, and eventually she and I both will tire of that, because there’s nothing else to make the relationship work. I don’t think every sexual encounter needs to be about marriage, but I don’t think a fling with an 18 year old would be about marriage. I think in my case it should probably involve a tazer and a court case.
To the argument about the biblical and historical support or exclusion of everything, well let’s consider my favorite for another political factor. In Rome, it was illegal to marry Christians. It was an effort to get the cult banned. Bishop Valentine, a sweet scion of a noble family was warned, offered a plea bargain, but refused and was executed like a common criminal. We pass around fennel seed shaped cards we claim are “heart shaped” now, and say our I love yous on the anniversary of the adjusted calendar of the day he was murdered. Now Christian nut jobs claim other people can’t get married. In the 50′s it was racially motivated, now it’s about sex. You’re right in as much as we are becoming a more accepting society. You’ll have to kill a whole lot of common sense though if you think we’re going to ditch equality and make it okay to have sex with children. We might lower the age(I hope not, I do not want to see Miley Cyrus wannabes or South Park Rasins restaurants turning tricks), but my guess is we’ll tear down different walls and leave those intact.
To the rest of this, if your wife doesn’t give you a little guff when you ask her for a sandwich, and you’re not in a cervical collar or traction, I think you need to analyze your relationship and check your own form off.
Hey, easy there on the Lady Gaga bashing. Compared to Justin Bieber, Lady Gaga is like an acoustical orgasm. Not to mention – SHE’S A BABE!!!!! :-)
A babe? Really? Well Homer, this is where you and I part ways. I’m usually in perfect agreement with you. : )
*ahem* I should probably have added the caveat “Without make-up and wearing something slightly more mainstream that her usual outfits.” :-)
Seriously, though, even with all the bling-bling and weirdness there was something about her that caught my eye, but it wasn’t until I saw pictures of what she looked like before she took the stage persona of Lady Gaga that I realized it was her babeousness that made my jaw drop, not her music.
And speaking of music, I just thought of the ultimate music hell – being forced to listen to Michael Bolton brutally rape White Christmas, over and over and over again. It’s been a few years since I first heard it, but I still flinch when I hear the first notes of that song, every fucking time…
To each their own. I think David Letterman is hot.
> Then he can talk about how advanced his wife’s culture is, how
> they don’t make a fuss over silly things like adults having
> sex with children.
Sorry to disappoint you, but actually, it’s quite the reverse. If you’re caught molesting a child there, they drag you out into the street and beat you to death with shovels or whatever else is handy. And frankly, I’m okay with that.
> You’ll have to kill a whole lot of common sense though if you
> think we’re going to ditch equality and make it okay to have sex
> with children.
I never suggested any such thing, nor would I want or support this. My comments as to my own experience were just that, not a prelude to suggesting that the age of consent be lowered to single digits (or that my experiences should be considered universally “okay” for everyone).
> Now Christian nut jobs claim other people can’t get married.
Christian nut jobs claim so many things that it’s hard to keep up. Christianity has opposed practically every single thing that would better the human condition- science, medicine, electricity, equal rights, gender equality, etc etc. Not to mention the church’s tacit support for pedophilia which has gone on for hundreds and hundreds of years. If you’re looking for people who want to have sex with kids, Jason, visit a church.
> but Mike here brought up his Asian bride, and I could give a giant
> flip, except he may have made her a citizen here. There’s a term
> called sexual slavery.
Yes, she’ll be a citizen once all the paperwork is done and she’s passed her immigration tests and whatnot. Is that a bad thing? How you manage to link that to “sexual slavery” is beyond me. I don’t even know what to say to that, frankly. (??) Are you saying that my wife is some kind of sex slave, or…? You really lost me there.
> I still want sex 9 times a day, but an 18 year old will only be
> able to perform the sex and make me a sandwich, and
> eventually she and I both will tire of that, because there’s
> nothing else to make the relationship work.
I’m glad to hear your libido is still in good shape, lol. Thanks for sharing.
As for the rest, I’m sorry you feel that an age difference is some kind of insurmountable problem. Maybe it’s true in your case but that doesn’t mean it holds true for others. My wife and I have lots to talk about and “make the relationship work”, and so do several friends of mine whose wives are younger than mine. Gotta be honest here: saying that “there’s nothing else to make the relationship work” sounds kinda shallow. Can you only relate to women who are within a few years of your own age?
> if your wife doesn’t give you a little guff when you ask her for a
> sandwich, and you’re not in a cervical collar or traction, I think
> you need to analyze your relationship and check your own form off.
That is, frankly, a strange (and somewhat sad) mindset to me.
My wife likes doing things for me and I like doing things for her. Isn’t that the way it’s supposed to be? We’re about equally likely to ask each other for a sandwich and neither of us feels as though it’s some awful thing. I would hope you could say the same about your marriage or relationship, but apparently not. Maybe you think my marriage is some sort of “master-slave” deal where my wife is a shy little wallflower, utterly subservient to me, etc etc? Trust me, nothing could be further from the truth.
Homer: As for Lady Gaga, yes she sounds infinitely better than Justin Bieber. But a collision between two garbage trucks filled with hungry cats would also sound infinitely better than Justin Bieber*. Is she a babe? Err. Well, not to me, but there are people who think Queen Latifah is hot, so who am I to judge?
*Or so I’m told.
Mike, I’ve read this post twice, and twice I’ve read the pertinent post by Jason.
Mike, I’ve trusted you as requested on one or two of your statements; could you please trust me now when I say, I’m not trying to be provocative or silly, I’m not deliberately missing the point, I just do not see how you arrived at the following conclusion about Jason:
You state “I’m sorry you feel that an age difference is some kind of insurmountable problem.”
Where did he say, or imply that? Could you please quote? Are you referring to the part of his post, where he says, in his case, a fling with an 18 year old should involve a tazer and a court case?
If so, I think he means (Jason correct if I’m wrong) that 18 year olds seem very, very young to him. Like, kids almost. And, if that’s what he means, why are you sorry for him? What’s wrong with that opinion? It’s different from yours, okay. Your wife is younger than you. But everybody is entitled to different feelings, right? To each his own?
I keep telling myself I’m not going to reply to any more of your posts. But your thought processes fascinate me. Questions, questions.
> Are you referring to the part of his post, where he says,
> in his case, a fling with an 18 year old should involve a
> tazer and a court case?
No, it was this part that prompted my comment:
————————————–
“I’m in my 30?s, I still want sex 9 times a day, but an 18 year old will only be able to perform the sex and make me a sandwich, and eventually she and I both will tire of that, because there’s nothing else to make the relationship work.”
————————————–
“…nothing else to make the relationship work.” How else to interpret that? Maybe I misunderstood what he meant, but I took it to mean that because he’s in his 30′s he didn’t see how a relationship with someone who is only 18 could succeed. He didn’t mention anything except the age difference. In other words, someone who is 18 would be so young that they’d only be good for sex and cooking, and (apparently) there would be no way they could possibly have an actual relationship. As he put it, “there’s nothing else to make the relationship work”.
Because she’s 18 and he 30-something, the only use he could have for her is for sex and making him sandwiches? Ya gotta be kidding me. That seems incredibly shallow and simple-minded to me. Do the rest of you guys think that way too?
Seriously, is an age difference like that so extreme that two people can find no common ground, no shared interests??
Maybe I completely misunderstood what he meant, but I don’t see how. How would you interpret that statement?
> I keep telling myself I’m not going to reply to any
> more of your posts. But your thought processes
> fascinate me.
Yeah, that’s what the parole board always says too. ;)
Really, though, perhaps I should drop this and not post anymore. I wrote earlier that if Max didn’t want me to participate here, all he had to do is say so. I’ll respect his decision; say the word and I’ll go.
A Wunderkind friend of mine got to College about a year before me, and three years before I met her. She became the college campus scandal, and at 19, after a year waiting on the sidelines for a speedy, but messy divorce with grown and young children, she married a professor in the liberal arts. She did not get her Masters degree, by the day they married, she was 3 months pregnant. She had a double major in Liberal Arts and Engineering, but she never practiced the Engineering degree, and the Engineering she was going to do would have required at least a Masters. she became a stay at home wife, and for 10 years raised children, and then became the old model. The 1 year messy divorce was cut to 2 short months by a very iron-clad prenup, and then she’s 29, on the market, with a few children, child support and no work history ever. 19 months ago, she lost her job in retail for a blow up, and I consoled her to find a job. She’s still on unemployment, not because she won’t take any job, but because she has limited experience, still needs child care, her friends loan her transportation, but its reliability is her own willingness to ask for help, and she looks on her life with regret. We offer as a unit to get her back into school and that’s what she’s finally going to do. Her ex is in ill health right now, 72 years old, his newest wife has left him because of his temper. It’s a novel waiting to happen, but not mine to write. She goes and she takes care of him, but he won’t admit he was wrong. It’s the one thing she wants in this world as she looks for a job, takes three classes while she prepares for the GMAT again, and takes care of his kids, who will have to fight with older siblings for some small piece of what he hasn’t thrown away chasing a Heinlein fantasy. When he dies, the child support ends, and she will stick her chin out and “refuse charity,” as long as she can.
Children develop at different rates, but in this case, matters of love require experience. You don’t often get it right the first time(it took me several, and I’m not telling how many, only that i married the one that took). She married a predator the first time, and should she ever read what I write here, I hope she understands the cautionary before she comes, hunts me down and kills me for airing her dirty laundry.
I never met an 18 year old who could make a better sammich than a 30 year old. Why would you want the sloppy, messy, bad sammich, when you can get one from an experienced sammich maker?
It’s probably the same with sammiches as it is with sex. Why would you WANT the 18 year old? Sure, they’ll probably look good naked, but you have to do more than lie there lookin’ good to be good in bed. I’ve never slept with an 18 year old (when I was over that age myself), but I have to assume their lack of sexual experience wouldn’t make them useful for much more than making a sammich…
I was bad at sex at age 18. I wasn’t that good at sammiches either…
Now, with Gluten free Bread either homemade or from Jason’s Deli(oh, if only I really owned the franchise rights), fresh jars of jam from the summer put up, and oh so creamy or crunchy peanut butter(preferably homemade, but there are awesome substitutions there) I can enjoy a P,B&J that would make the angels weep.
Miracle Whip is Gluten-Free, so are bananas
BLT’s are in season a bit longer
Grilled Cheese when possible, dipped in tomato soup(in season for as long as the tomatoes last in the jars)
Fresh roast beef(from free range, grass-fed cattle, because there is no taste better), fresh au jus, a sandwich that needs 4 napkins and a guilty donation to some eco-charity to make you feel better about how good it is.
Boar’s head Gluten free Pepperoni, Salami, Roast Beef, Turkey, Chicken, a bit of lamb, mint jelly, two kinds of lettuce (red and green preferred), baby spinach, gently buttered and toasted to seal them with sun-dried tomatoes, fresh tomatoes with a pinch of kosher salt, mayonnaise and lettuce reinforced bread, all toasted with four cheeses left only to the imagination, stirred with bacon… It’s the 7 animal, 7 vegetable, 7 dairy combo that I defy you to recreate at age 18 without adult supervision.
STOP IT! You’re making me very.. very.. Hongry. LOL!
Oh Jason! JASON!!
FEED ME YOUR BIG, MEATY SAMMICH, JASON! OH GOD, THE CONDIMENTS! YOUR CULINARY SKILLS ARE BREATHTAKING!
(Back to you, E.)
Ah would that I could! I can’t do this AND my run tomorrow. You go on ahead, Beck, this old lady is going to step aside and let you young folks carry on.
**sigh** Just gonna . . . rest here for a minute. Think of fresh roast beef . . . crunchy peanut butter . . . kosher salt . . . mm . . . zzzzzzz . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Thanks for the quote Mike. I understand better now what you reacted to in Jason’s post.
However I still think you’re the one who’s jumping to conclusions. Jason I think is merely being realistic.
If two people meet, discover they have some important things in common, admire each other, like each other, share goals, etc., etc., and they happen to be many years apart in age, great. Yay for them. I’ll throw rice at the wedding.
But look at the big picture. Really, how often does that happen? Aren’t most May December romances actually fueled by greed, lust, a desire for protection, a parent fixation, instead of the important things? I think they are.
I’m not talking about your relationship with your wife. Please stay focused on that. You guys apparently are doing things right. My point is, most people don’t.
Having made that point, I’d like to make this point, again: I think jason is simply being realistic. Most people from a certain age group don’t have much in common with most people from another age group.
I sometimes get attention from younger guys (they probably hope I’ll spend money on them). My husband teases me about it. There is one cutiepie here at work who’s very friendly. He’s fun to look at but god is he hard to talk to. He has a lot of growing up to do, and I don’t think looks ahead much beyond the day to day.
You can understand that if I were single, I would not pursue a guy like that, can’t you?
On the other hand, most of the men my age, MOST, I have more in common with emotionally. We’ve gone through the same experiences and lived the same cultural events at about the same times.
If you and your wife are the 1%, congratulations. You’re happy, so what other people do shouldn’t matter that much, right?
Got it E. In my 30′s an 18 year old looks like someone I should give a cookie to, and say “how big you’ve grown,” while I offer to teach her father how to use a shotgun. I’m not interested. If I was interested, I think most respectful and respectable 18 year olds should taze me and call the police.
While Mike hits the other end of the argument in a ditch, there’s an explanation there too. Should I date an 18 year old, we might want some of the same things, but I want an adult with an equal maturity level. An age difference of 15 years is surmountable. A maturity level of 15 years is insurmountable. I don’t think there’s a magic cutoff, but if she’s still in her powder-puff football game sweats, after the big game, her father should pull a Chris Hansen, “nice to see you, why don’t you sit over there?”
She’s an adult, can make her own decisions, because we made the laws that way, but it would be a mistake, mainly because I should be responsible enough to see the consequences. Now, should my wife precede me in my twilight years(that’s 80+ not, when I’m some sparkling vampire) I’m counting on someone here to remind me of these words.
I’ve read Nabokov, but I don’t believe his argument or really that it is an argument at the ages he’s talking about. I think he even alludes to the projection, even while he takes a steep dive off the cliff. I’ll extend the argument. There’s a lot to learn about being an adult done from age 18 to 25. One of those items should be that you know almost nothing, but part of the invulnerable armor youth gives itself is that it knows it all already. This is not the time to steal it with a “guru on the hill’s dose” in exchange for wild and hot sex with someone out of your epoch.
Lolita is one of my favorite books. I have the annotated version. Hard for me to read in some parts but so interesting.
> He feels Sword’s sentence is too harsh, in view of what
> other offenders get. A fine argument, but it doesn’t go far
> enough, and when some of us suggested, “Then the other
> offenders should receive worse punishment, but don’t let
> Sword off lightly,” he was strangely silent.
Oh no, I’m in full agreement with this. I think most of the sentences reported here are too light, some of them almost unbelievably so. That’s why her sentence seems so out of proportion to me.
Mike, I agree with you about Lady Gaga. I’d rather listen to cats fucking loudly while some old guy in overalls shoots snot out of his nostrils onto the pavement. Yes, I’ve heard it. Yes indeed, it is more pleasant than Lady Gaga.
If we must have laws (and we must), we have to err on the side of safety for our children. Some, not MOST, but some teenagers are mentally mature enough for sex. Many think they are, because they’re physically ready for it. Ask most of them and they’ll tell you that they are. There are other things involved with sex than just sex, as you well know. Most teenagers are ill-equipped to deal with these other things. Most could be psychologically damaged by these kinds of relationships, and may never even know it. We cannot have some laws for some kids, and not for all. There is no ‘maturity test’.
I’m not saying your wife is not as mature as you say she is – children develop at different rates when they’re from other countries as well. In America, it’s true that our children are maturing faster than most of the adults did in their time. That doesn’t mean they’re psychologically prepared to handle a sexual relationship.
I really think that the primary reason I haven’t participated in this discussion is that your tone reminds me of Lindsay Ashford. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ryCkk8387U I can’t help but visualize you this way. He’s articulate, soft-spoken, unassuming – the perfect child predator. His method of rationalizing what he does and how he thinks, terrifies me. Honestly, so does yours.
> If we must have laws (and we must), we have to err on the
> side of safety for our children. … There are other things
> involved with sex than just sex, as you well know. Most
> teenagers are ill-equipped to deal with these other things.
I agree 100% with what you said here.
> I’m not saying your wife is not as mature as you say
> she is – children develop at different rates when
> they’re from other countries as well.
Ummm, she’s very mature. She should be, she’s almost 30 years old. She hasn’t been a child for *quite* some time.
> In America, it’s true that our children are maturing faster
> than most of the adults did in their time. That doesn’t
> mean they’re psychologically prepared to handle a sexual
> relationship.
Again, I don’t disagree. I’d say the vast majority of them aren’t capable or psychologically prepared to handle a sexual relationship. Some exceptions, like myself, probably are. That *doesn’t* mean I think people should be seeking them out for sex *or* that they should be given the idea that it’s okay for them to have sex with whoever they want.
> I really think that the primary reason I haven’t participated
> in this discussion is that your tone reminds me of Lindsay
> Ashford. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ryCkk8387U
> I can’t help but visualize you this way.
I’d never heard of him before. I watched a couple of minutes of his schtick and didn’t need to see any more. He advocates for what sounds like a complete repeal of all laws about age of consent and thinks that anyone should be able to have sex any time at any age with anyone of any age (correct me if I’m wrong). That is *absolutely* not what I’ve said or suggested, and I don’t support his views or anything like it.
I also think perhaps quite a few people have taken what I’ve said and extrapolated it out beyond the edge of the graph. Apparently because I said that *I* had sex at an early age, people here think that I’m okay with anyone having sex at an early age, or that anyone of any age should be able to have sex with anyone of any age. Bullshit. I never said anything like that, and you or anyone else can read my comments and see for yourself.
For example, Max the Cat seemed to believe that I gave my “stamp of approval” to what went on between Aimee Sword and her son, or that I was okay with it. No f*cking way. I’ve said repeatedly just the opposite, but apparently the facts of what I actually said aren’t all that important.
I meant your tone, not the substance of what you said. I can’t think of another term to use other than ‘tone’, but I assure you, I wasn’t comparing your philosophy to that of Lindsay Ashford. From the few moments you watched, hopefully you understand what I mean. I do understand what you’re saying, and I don’t think you’re advocating child rape. Not at all.
I was 15 when I had sex for the first time, too. I do not believe I was mentally mature enough for it, but I’m glad I was smart enough to use protection. I was a very smart kid. I was ahead of my class, and considered by many to be mature well beyond my years. If you’d asked me at the time if I was old enough for a sexual relationship I would have told you yes, absolutely. I know now that I was not, and I regret it for many different reasons.
Someone with your communication skills is certainly able to have some influence on young people who don’t have enough life experience to truly make an informed decision. Like Ashford, you’re very convincing. I wonder what the young adults and teens who read this website are thinking of this whole conversation. Do you see why what you’re saying might be scary to me?
I think it is unhealthy for people under 18 to have sex. I think it is damaging psychologically, and that a person of that age isn’t mentally equipped to decide if they’re truly ready for it.
MIke, One reason people, self included, are extrapolating, is, with all respect, you don’t communicate your position all that well.
BEFORE YOU JUMP TO THE KEYBOARD TO REPLY, wait a sec. Just give me a moment here. Yes, you have stated most kids aren’t ready for sex. Yes, you have said things like “That *doesn’t* mean I think people should be seeking them out for sex *or* that they should be given the idea that it’s okay for them to have sex with whoever they want.”
All that is crystal clear.
But in addition, you’ve said things like, “True, but that doesn’t mean [teenagers] *can’t* make “good decisions” or that they’re incapable of knowing what they want. It doesn’t preclude them from making valid choices. And as far as “not being able to make good decisions”, you and I both know plenty of adults who fit that description. Age is not the only yardstick to measure decision making ability by.”
You’ve made similar statements. I don’t quote them now, as this post will get wordy. But I will if you ask me to. They were from your earliest posts.
That muddies the water.
When you make excuses for people who behave a certain way, then condemn the behavior, when you make contradictory statements, when you compare a situation involving marriage to a situation involving molestation . . . people get confused! They start looking for things that make sense, they start speculating. They extrapolate.
The fact that you seem a little defensive about all this, doesn’t help. You joked about either marrying or adopting your wife (yes, a joke, I get that). Then when Max joked back and said “You the man,” you referred to it as a crack, went into self pity mode, and informed us all how you’ve taken your share of shit becuase your wife is younger than you and looks different. Oh, poor you.
Yeah, the feeling sorry for yourself; that doesn’t help either. “apparently the facts of what I actually said aren’t all that important” . . . come on, now. Offering to leave the site if you aren’t welcome. Mike, we’re disagreeing with you, and we have a right to do that. Someone who was mature enough for sex at a young age, should be mature enough to handle disagreement.
*applause* Well said, E.
And Mike, here, on this forum, you are a difficult person to understand. I don’t really know how to put this, but I still more often than not get the feeling that your actions and your words don’t quite support your opinions. It’s as if you want our acceptance for getting laid at a young age with older women (why else would you keep bringing it up?), while you at the same time support our opinion of this being an act of paedophilia and as such worthy of a front seat in the deepest bowels of hell. Like E says, it muddies the waters.
And when you muddy the waters (here’s the *well DUH* moment), you lose clarity and your comments become a lot more open to interpretation.
I’ll give you an example.
One thing that struck me (and to be honest I’m a bit surprised no-one has reacted to it yet) is how your statements regarding you getting laid at a young age with older women (which you keep bring… wait a minute, am I repeating myself here?) go hand in hand with your statements regarding age differences between sexual partners. If this were a therapy session (which it’s not, so don’t take it as such) I’d be asking you if you have a preference for a certain age-group. When you were young, you wanted older chicks. When you’re old, you want younger chicks.
I’m not saying that this is the way it is. I’m just trying to make you aware of the fact that these are the kind of fish that swim in muddy waters, and I hope you take this as a friendly warning. You need to either sit down and really think about what you are trying to achieve here, and then find the words which will help you reach that goal, or accept the fact that the more you try to explain yourself, the murkier it gets.
You seem like a smart guy, and the fact that you’ve managed to keep this discussion going for quite some time supports that assumption, as I’m not the only one willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. So don’t take this the wrong way.
All I’m asking is for you to filter the waters a little. That’s all.
Guys, I need intervention here. If not now, soon.
I Cannot Stop Arguing with Mike. I know it’s pointless. I know he’s entitled to his opinion. I know there are things I don’t understand.
But his conclusions, his excuses, his shifts in position . . . I keep wanting to argue, explain, point out, question . . . my posts go on and on . . . my head hurts . . . .
I’ve lost control. I need a higher power.
HALP!
Someone, please. Jason, will you make me a yummers sammich? Max will you tell me a kitteh story? Tell me how Zappa’s adjusting. Beck, girlfriend, I need ya. Rub my shoulders,take me for a walk around the block? Fred, make me laugh with your wonderful grossness. Maelstrom, bitch slap some sense into me.
E can’t do it on her own . . . :{ HALP
Not a problem E – I’ve been thinking about intervening in Mike’s case today anyways. Personally, I think he’s a closet pedophile, but I was afraid to say it because I knew I’d have to read another 5000 word essay on why he’s really, really not, pinky swear to God.
Guys like Mike want to have the last word in every argument – What he doesn’t understand is that as long as I control the edit button I will ALWAYS have the last word on this website. Yes, it’s cheating, but who said it isn’t good to be the king.
I’m starting to think you’re right. I’ve really struggled here to keep an open mind and live, let live. Which is probably what Mike counts on.
I don’t think he’s a closet pedo, I think he had some experiences as a child which warped his sense of reality a bit. I think he is expecting us to take the maturity of the minority, and discount the immaturity of the vast majority, of teens and young adults. I think, to question laws based on that, is very, very naive and the convincing nature of his words ( to someone who only skimmed them without truly understanding them) is dangerous.
And there’s the sense I get from him of “I don’t fit in.” The sex he had with adults, as a child, may have had a hand (pardon the expression) in that. It doesn’t sound like he relates well to his own kind, but I think he wants to. Some of the posts sounded like he was trying to convince himself, and us. Only to lapse into childishness, defensiveness, self pity, disdain, when it looked like we were “getting warm.”
I’m sure he’s unused to disagreement. If his wife’s family are all overseas, and she’s living in the middle of a culture she doesn’t know real well (I assume), she probably doesn’t feel comfortable arguing with him and running the risk of getting him angry. Who would?
If most of his friends have similar marriages, there’s probably a lot of complacency and congratulation among them, on how lucky they are, to have such wives, and to have escaped the evil predations of the Middle Aged Western Female.
” . . but who said it isn’t good to be the king.”
Sure wasn’t me. Our friend Mike probably says it every time he gets his ashes hauled.
> However I still think you’re the one who’s jumping
> to conclusions. Jason I think is merely being realistic.
That’s not the word I would use. I might use the words “shortsighted”, or possibly the phrase “limited outlook”. Or even “denigrating to young women in general”. Seriously- I think it’s kind of sad that Jason says he’d be unable to form a relationship with someone who’s not in his immediate age group. But each to their own. Different strokes for different folks.
> But look at the big picture. Really, how often does
> that happen?
A lot more often than you think, E. If you knew a lot of couples with age differences, you might revise your opinion. I know quite a few, and by and large their relationships are as good or better than the “age-matched” ones I know. My friend “R” is 53, his wife is 20. I’m sure that will outrage a lot of people here, but they’re a wonderful couple and they’re very happy. We see them all the time and I’d bet they have a stronger relationship than most couples. Another friend of mine married one of my wife’s girlfriends. She’s 26, he’s 63. Oh the Horror! But you know what? They’re happy together and neither of them care about the age difference. If they don’t care, why should anyone here? As you say below, if they’re happy, what other people do shouldn’t matter that much, right? Look, I know lots and lots of couples with large age differences. They don’t sit around and worry about the age difference- it’s mostly other people who do that.
> Aren’t most May December romances actually fueled by
> greed, lust, a desire for protection, a parent fixation,
> instead of the important things? I think they are.
I’m sure it’s true in some cases, just as I’m sure it’s not true in others. I think you’re selling a lot of couples short with that assumption, and I’m curious as to what gives you this impression.
> You can understand that if I were single, I would not
> pursue a guy like that, can’t you?
What is there to understand? It’s not up to me to tell you who not to date or pursue, just like it’s not up to me to tell you who you *should* date or pursue. As long as you don’t feel you have the right to tell others who they should or shouldn’t date, it’s a non-issue.
> If you and your wife are the 1%, congratulations.
In my opinion it’s well over 1%, but I’ll admit I haven’t done a comprehensive statistical study. All I have to go on is decades of life experiences and familiarity with more than a few couples with age differences.
> You’re happy, so what other people do shouldn’t matter
> that much, right?
It would be great if everyone else here would take that idea to heart. Instead, people have said:
That I support pedophilia,
That I’m “okay” with what Aimee Sword did,
That it was a mistake to be civil to me,
That I apparently think Aimee Sword should be “let off lightly”,
That my wife might be some sort of “sex slave”,
That I consider myself “sophisticated,
That I’m just dying to show everyone how “le continentale” I am,
That’s it’s okay to do an armchair diagnosis of me, but not not fair when I do it back,
That I’m some sort of oaf if I was to ask my wife for a sandwich (how beastly!),
That I want to “ditch equality and make it okay to have sex with children”,
That if you’re in your 30′s, 18 year-olds are only good for sex and sanwiches,
That my having sex at an early age (and enjoying it) can be equated with skipping school
That my having sex at an early age (and enjoying it) can be equated with throwing puppies into a river
That even though *I* don’t think so, I must be a victim.
And, because I must be a victim, I should call a hotline (this was suggested by someone who also had sex at 15, by the way)
That “enjoyment, in and of itself, is not a sufficient reason for doing something, anything.”
I could go on, but the point is that all of those things are untrue, unfair, or unfounded. Really, if I came here and started making those claims about you (or other people here), what would your response be?
I may not done a good job of expressing myself clearly (and that’s my bad), but I’ve been civil and I sure as hell haven’t thrown accusations like those around freely.
———————-
E, I just read your last reply. I sincerely apologize if I’m driving you to distraction. It’s not my intent. Fair enough?
Why yes, apology accepted. That sounds quite fair. And I’ve decided, that from now on, I’ll interpret each of your posts as meaning the exact opposite of whatever it is you’re saying. That will cut down my confusion quite a bit.
Sounds like we’ve arrived at an understanding.
My “shortsighted,” “limited outlook,” is sourced to my 3 years, 11 months and 8 days of extremely happy marriage. You may have more time in country, but I feel confident in my experience and satisfied that my world view comes from a clear and complete discussion of relative interests, references and close association with cousins, friends, and work associates who fall in a variety of age categories. While my wife and I have both discussed demise, possible divorce or some other calamity and a strong wish from both that the other would find another, I feel confident, that the other would need to come from those at least 23 or older, and preferably someone within a few short years of my own. It is not the perspective, but the shared sense of purpose I honestly see in people my own age as well as a deep respect for women my own age. They’ll remember the Challenger explosion, the death of Kurt Cobain, the passage of politicians, seasons, Katrina, and a host of surface references that are touchstones for myself and others. I could educate someone younger or even older, but the first shake of that hand should be granted to someone who already did the homework. Why should I expect them to work for me, when I would have to work so very hard to understand their own touch stones. This is less than a tenth of a percent of the associations of life. When we get to the important things, the meat of a relationship, the bread, condiments and trimmings, there are other factors. I’m going to break down at a certain rate, adjusted by the care I give myself, the genetic outlook I was born with, the calamities I am struck by, the opportunities I was given and the general course I was given to navigate. That break down would unnecessarily burden a loved one with a pain I do not need to inflict. Watching shared infirmities is responsible, reasonable and in part as loving as it is selfish–responsibly so.
My denigration isn’t merely for young women. It’s also a self-respecting evaluation for the man I was and the men of the same age. It is an evaluation of the responsibility of most in a particular generation. The young serve in invincible roles, because they are too stupid and ignorant to realize their lack of invulnerability. They have fewer bad habits for drill instructors to break and an energy and sense of optimism that while useful is also lacking in most of the preparedness I expect in the seasoned worker. They are the funny trainee, forgiven most of their day to day transgressions, and smiled upon for being cute as they try to knock the fuzz off their bodies and grow their adult features. this is a general and generic denigration of a group that takes a small and limited hazing in our society and we turn into adults. They get training wheels knocked off at age 18, and we forgive mistakes then that a 30 year old should be slapped for. Hindsight is 20/20 as the adage goes, but most 30 year olds or older can watch the train wreck that’s about to befall an 18-25 year old and usually they try to stop the accident. From the outside, this is usually just friendly nudging, “hey, I’ve been there, done that,” from the confines of a bedroom, that’s denigrating, foolish and borderline selfish as you accept a strange series of accolades for knowing the right thing only because you made those mistakes and now get to be the thoughtful guru. Sexual favors, intensified by a master/student relationship is the same reason we groaned when Sting’s song “Don’t Stand So Close to Me” was so controversial–it still should be.
Could I leave my wife in a ditch, and trade her in for a newer model at the cost of half the life we’ve built already? Unequally divide friends and family in a messy divorce that hurt everyone we’ve touched? Or worse, do this a year or so after I grieve over her funeral, and choose someone half her age, that I establish a “relationship” on unequal footing, carrying twice her lifetime in baggage? Perhaps I should be pitied, I wouldn’t wish that on the dog catcher who terrorized my cats through their window, let alone someone I say “I love you,” to. I will remember every moment of this life until Alzeheimers, a physical accident or the degeneration of cells changes the way my mind works. Some would kill for that, but I can see how you’d pity that. I can count most if not all of the kisses I’ve shared(moment and instantaneous), with every woman, not merely my wife. If I sit, I can come close to counting almost anything but eye blinks, which thought I cannot remember for all events, I do for the tense 4 minutes I proposed(28 for me and 36 for her). You can call these deficiencies in me, but I call them stellar performances that are cheerful and worthy of the bittersweet moment when we should some day have to part ways.
What it really boils down to, is that my relationships, I leave with regrets, we all do, but perhaps as I navigate these memories, I prefer to have fewer regrets than you. We all have selfish interests in relationships, but my only regret would be that I could not set enough of those aside to bring one more positive moment in spite of those regrets. There are positive things we can do, and choosing someone who can walk my road, without trailing in my shadow or I in hers, would be worth it to me. I cannot predict the future, but I have the experience to see the roads and possibilities and choose ones that favor my partner more than me. It’s not a rejection of the capacity to love or live of the 18-25 year old, it is the confidence, that their competence to judge the intervening spaces between us will be more positive for them than for me. How could they possibly have had the depth of knowledge of relationships that their lifetime in other loves has granted me?
A new perspective? As valuable as my experience actually doing the work? Do you give the job to someone who has only read about the topic or the one who has done it well for 20 years?
We agree on something there, only in a life analyzed, rather than meandered through. Tori Amos, a singer of my generation said it best though.
“Some people are afraid of what they might find if they try to analyze themselves too much, but you have to crawl into your wounds to discover where your fears are. Once the bleeding starts, the cleansing can begin.”
I fear my wife’s death. I’ve crawled into that wound. I know where other wounds connect to it. I know what those distinctions come from and why. One individual might be different, I do not discount the individual, the golden BB or the anomaly. I discount the broad statement that a judgement of youth older than I am, and supported by my own experiences is less than founded in firm exposure to reality.
Jason, I loved your post. But as someone who has learned the hard way, I think you’re wasting your time. Mike is frightened of preferences and all they imply: standards, judgments. If you tell him you’re attracted to brunette women, he’ll say you denigrated blondes. There’s no getting through to someone like that.
Of course, this whole attitude of his could be one big pose to keep people arguing and guessing.
If it’s not, I wonder on what basis he selected his wife. And how will he ever make amends to all the women in the world he didn’t select? I use the word select deliberately.
I always wonder about abused kids a few years from now… especially ones that have been sexually abused by parents. Yes, there is the possibility of healing but the emotional scars last forever… and any question relating to that parent tears open those scars and makes them bleed all over again. Think about it… one day at school or varsity… someone asks this kid about his mom… what the hell does he say???? “Oh my mom and I used to f*ck?” Holy crap man, does this mom lack the ability to foresee consequences and outcomes??? Can she not see further than her effing vagina?!
You talk like the boy is an angel. What if he is a monster? What if he threatened her to death or something? Teenagers are not always saints and, sometimes, they do horrible things. This woman may be suffering a hell because of it , due to public misconceptions.
And you talk like the mother is an angel. Are you sure you’re not wearing tinted glasses? I’d understand – and possibly even agree – with your argument, if not for the hotel records, which show a level of planning and initiative that I find difficult to see originating from the mind of a teenager, and the confession (yes, despite the sob-story of her doing it to save her son the trauma of testifying, which is nothing but defence attorney spin).
And you really need to tone down the generalizations.
“Teenagers are not always saints and, sometimes, they do horrible things.” True. Then again, had you said that children are not always saints, or adults, or geriatrics, or any other variation of a human being, I would also have agreed with you. So as an argument, it’s not really effective.
Except in this case, we KNOW that the boy isn’t the monster — the mother is. The boy was a typical confused and mixed up teenager who was (thankfully) being seen by a psychologist and counselor — his adopted parents love him enough to see that he get professional help to sort through the shit-fuck that teen years can bring. Now, of course, thanks to his monster mother, any progress that the parents may have made for him has been eradicated.
Aimee isn’t suffering from public misconceptions. Read the court transcripts. This is not a case of WHAT IF???, okay? Read the article again. I do not say WHAT IF Aimee Sword decided to have sex with her son — SHE DID. Now, even IF this kid was the badass gangster that at least one media pundit tried to portray him as, do you realize that there STILL WOULD BE NO F*N JUSTIFICATION for what Aimee Sword did.
And, in case you are having trouble with it, then reverse the genders and try that on for size. There is no justification at all for a parent to have sex with their child — not now, not ever. Should society ever reach the point where this type of behaviour is acceptable, then I hope to be long absent from the world of the living.
Yes, what if he is a monster? What if he is an angel? A plumber? A dog? What if it rains tonight? What if I buy a new car tomorrow? What if we were all really space aliens? Whatifwhatifwhatif?
Ooops. What if this makes you mad? Then you might threaten me to death.
What if I won the lotto? What if I never had to work again?
Man, I *love* what ifs cause I can just dream a little dream and think $$$$$$$$$.
Nah, what ifs never make me angry; I get mad by WHAT IS — and unfortunately, child abuse is “what is” — a lot! :-(
Well, as most survivors of child abuse will tell you, the wounds never go away. They may scab up a bit (sorry for the gross analogy) but anything may make them open up and bleed again. The best you can hope for is to mentally practice stories to re-direct conversations away from the painful subjects, but since this guy has years of adolescence to work through, he’s got plenty of opportunities to worry about.
Best advice I would give is pretend she’s dead and that his adopted mom is all he has. He won’t get any kind of sympathy even if people were able to believe that a real mother would do what Aimee did — and that’s a stretch, as I’ve noticed by the responses I’ve read all over the place.
Thank God my mother named me Amy Louise and not Aimee Louise…this is one sick woman.
The discussion about the morality of sex with children is rather illuminating.
Fortunately, most are against this type of action and in this respect, I am gratified that society has not totally descended into the nether regions of some NAMBLA “dream” (nightmare).
Basically, there are lots of stories of late where we read of men, using their role as “father”, to imprison their daughters and force them to service them for years as sexual slaves. It is nauseating and I think worthy of slow and painful death for the men. What is also nauseating is the fact that there are those among us who will find it in their miserable lives, they will find it necessary to speak up and say that these “men” should not be condemned for their actions because…
the girl(s) liked it
the girl(s) could have gone for help
the girl(s) could have said “no”
the girl(s) could have (insert lame excuse here)
The wonder of babies is that they are human potential at its source. The little girl or boy can grow up to be anything. There is the future in all of its glory available. What shapes the future and changes it to something bleak and dark are the actions of the adult humans around the infants.
As adults, we have fully formed (in some cases) our neural networks and thought pathways. We are supposed to be the mature ones. Age carries life experience with it and some of us actually learn from our previous actions. The very young do not have this storehouse to draw upon when making decisions; therefore, they cannot be fully equipped to make decisions on an equal footing with someone older.
The bottom line is that maturity cannot be measured by the number of years you have lived; however, it is a safe bet that the younger you are, the less likely you are going to be “mature” and experienced enough by life’s little surprises to be making big decisions — like sex with older adults.
The onus is on the older adult not to take advantage of another’s youth and inexperience, and, as if it needs to be said, the onus is on the parent (mother or father) not to use their offspring as a sexual toy.
No fancy words spun in delicate prose will change this very basic moral truth.
I hear banjos playing in the background to the Wanker County polka!
This is just disgusting. As I read this article, I couldn’t help but vomit a bit in my mouth. How can somebody track their son down on the internet, coerce his new adoptive parents to let him stay with her for a while, and then manipulate the youth into having sexual encounters. And I do not believe that Genetic Sexual Attraction bull. They just want to make up whatever they want to try to make excuses for this sick bitch. I hope that boy’s mind is not broken from this wretched woman. Burn in hell Aimee Louise Sword!
I SPEAK THE TRUTH:I think the main point was that it was her son, not that he was underage. At that age, i would have nailed just about anything, and some of my friends did and they are NOT scarred for life, they actually ended up being the best with women, and i learned alot about getting women into bed from them. The key is knowing in your heart of hearts, that women LOVE..L O V E to fvck, and not let them tell you otherwise.
Now, the kid, he knew it was his mom. so honestly its on him too, and he should get some kind of jail time and tried as an adult.
However, if men and women were HONEST, men would admit they do have an attraction to their cousins or sisters as children, and often their daughters when they start blossoming. Women have these urges too, but like their overall sexuality they are experts at hiding it. Go read “My Secret Garden” by nancy friday. Women are just as perverted as men. We are HUMANs and like to FVCK, dirt nasty stuff. Yes some dads get an attraction to their daighters..i could see that happening when they prance around in short shorts and their boobs start getting bigger. WOmen are the same! They like young sexually developed, sexually viral boys. Women ARE visually turned on.
NOW, how many times have we heard the “Daddy commeted statatury rape with daughter” theme?. TONS of times. I have dated SEVERAL women who were raped/forcefully and none forcefully wit there dads. This is COMMON guys. Its SO common, that i tend to think its just a NATURAL thing to want to fvck any blossoming female even if its your daughter. And for every guy who actually DOES, theres a guy who doesn’t but i BET he has jerked off or fantasized about it several times. Honestly, with the way these teenage girls look nowadays i with their perfect thighs, and perfect ASS, and glitter makeup…they look like little porn stars, id almost be surpised if a dad DIDN’T jerk off to his daughter at least ONCE. And thats even WHEN they DID raise the daughter, and develope a normal daddy/daughter dynamic. So imagine, if a dad meets his biological daughter who he NEVER had a familial connection with. He KNOWS hes related, but to his mind he’s gonna be reacting as if its some random teenage chick. It would be even easier for him to “cross that line”. WELL ITS THE SAME FOR WOMEN! That’s what happend to Aimee. Everyone loves to fvck. And this is a male who she didnt have a familial conection with. EVEN IF she had a familial connection with him, she may have been one of those mothers who masturbated to the image of her son walkning out of the bathroom with a towel on, just as some dads mastrubate or get turned on by their daughters. They might even feel bad or ashamed about it, but they still do it. Now, staying along the lines of “everyone loves to fvck”…some people are even hornier than others. Its not that the others ARENT horny, but some people are even more so. So while some people just jerk off or fantasize about their son/daughter, some will actually try to actualize it(I think people who have NO sexual thoughts about their kids are in the minority) I think Aimee was a very honry girl…she had FIVE kids! She was one of the hornier ones.
Now, the boy..again hes a horny 14 year old. At that age i had fantasies about my blood aunts. In a way i was kinda grossed out by it but also erotically turned on at the same time. Im sure i wouldnt have been abel to resist it if i was approached. MANY of my male friends have said the same. My friends say, my mom is hot. I have never had any sexual thought about my mother. I even tried for a few seconds a few times..its just gross. I think its MUCH more “unnatural” for the child to have an attraction to a parent in a familial setting/dynamic, than for the parent to have an attraction to the child in a familial setting/dynamic. Take that dynamic out for both, which is what we have here……..yeah, i could see how they could have fvcked each other. It didn’t “feel” like his mom…it didn”t “feel” like here son. I’m being honest. Im not saying its right or a good idea, but i could see it happening, and both feeling guilty at the same time.
Anyone who says these people should burn in hell are not being honest with themselves or hadn’t really thought about it hard. Get off your high horses and stop judging. Part of the problem is marriage, and sexual monotony. If people would have open marriages, i dont think you’d have people settling for sex with their bilogical son as their only outlet for sexual diversity. Marriage SUCKS. I would never do it. i HAVE BANGED 7 married chicks and all my married guy friends cheat or would cheat. Im sure the women are the same and in a couple of cases i know its true. IT DOESNT WORK. This opportunity for her to have sexual diviersity was the only one she had. It was depraved…but it was THERE.
Riiiiiiight. (Dr. Evil voice.)
While I agree with you that we all love to “fvck,” it’s quite a mental leap to go from that statement to “Every man, no exception, is sexually attracted to his female relatives and most women are too.” I realize those weren’t your exact words.
Brett, you need therapy. Seriously. Seek help asap.
And as for your “truth”, if you see humans as perpetually horny fuckbots and honestly think all people are constantly attracted to every single potential fuckbuddy regardless of age or whether they’re family or not, then the scope of your “truth” is severely limited. Not to mention completely fucked up, as it raises the question of what, exactly, you’re trying to justify here. All I’ll say is, I hope you don’t have children…
And why the fuck can’t you write “fuck”? FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK. See? It’s not so hard.
Or is it?
Hehe – I spent a good part of Sunday afternoon trying to decipher this huge mass of text. When I was done, I was angry – I wanted those two hours of my life back, and I knew I wasn’t going to get any cooperation from brett here, since he is obviously extremely busy writing his manifesto on incest and pedophilia for NAMBLA.
But brett, seriously – I raised two beautiful daughters, and I can truthfully tell you that I never wanted to have sex with either one of them. Your theories are bunk and you need a long stay in lake of shit.
My friend, I think you watched too many incest hentai… There is a subconscious “switch” that makes incest repugnant because sex was invented to make babies, and making a baby with a blood relative gives BAD results. Too bad that human minds sometimes do not work properly, but the cultural taboo against incest is one of the few taboos that makes sense. So, please lay down the incest hentai and get therapy ASAP.
PS: I’ve seen some open marriages in my life. They never worked.
Holy shit. Brett, I realize you want to believe your own predilections, sick as they are, are normal. They are not. You are deranged. Please seek therapy immediately, and please, for the love of God, stay away from all females, blossoming or otherwise.
Incest is the best, put yo momma to the test!! HAHAHA! At least his mom wasn’t some old ugly fat bitch… That would have made it so much worse…lol
Wow, this motherfucker can rhyme! You a rapper or something?
LOL Homer
LOL I kinda got you Darrell, but still, this bitch deserves to be chained to a tree and then mowed down by a hail of bullets from a H&K MP5 submachine gun. What she did was sick, deranged, and twisted. And I do not agree with that whole ‘Genetic Attraction’ bullshit. My son looks EXACTLY like my husband, so much that it’s scary and only has my smile. So going by the whole ‘Genetic Attraction’ theory my chances of sleeping with my son are high? That’s just some bullshit that these stupid doctors created in order to get this bitch off. They need to fry this woman.
No actually, people who are separated at birth and meet each other later in life do have sexual attraction, because the psychological perception of being related isn’t there (since they never grew up together), and the sexual attraction is probably due to their genetics being so similar.
There’s lots of cases about that – for example, there was an English couple who were brother and sister separated at birth (but did not know it), and ended up falling in love and getting married, then after they were married they found out the were brother/sister and had their marriage annulled.
I am more or less in agreement with Brett.
In much of the world, countries such as Japan, Spain, and Chile, Aimee Sword’s sexual relations with her son would have been legal. Sex between mother and son is fairly common in Japan and Russia. The age of consent is 13 in Japan and 16 in Russia, but the maximum sentence Aimee could theoretically have gotten in Russia would have been 4 years in jail.
I think our society’s legal prohibition on incest is wise, because the children conceived through incestuous sex, with potential genetic defects, can be real victims. In this case there were no such victims, and the sentence of 30 years in prison was extremely harsh and inappropriate.
As for the idea that a young man of 14 would be psychologically harmed by voluntarily having sexual intercourse with his attractive young mother, that is entirely contrary to human nature. I’m sure that he does feel badly about talking about it, and getting his mother thrown into prison.
I agree there – the kid was 14, not 4 so I doubt he’d have much “trauma” from the incident. I think more trauma would come from him being ridiculed by peers for it or knowing that his bio mother is in prison because of him.
This is more or less a victimless crime, just like illegal drug usage – as long as the individuals are only doing it to themselves, then it’s not my concern. I think it’s sad that this lady got more years in prison than the woman who tried to hire a hitman to murder the mother of one of her daughter’s HS friends, just so that her daughter could make the cheerleading team.
Very nice. Looking woman she looks very decent. Too bad she didn’t asked me for some time together. I would have shown her all the good things in life. I would have really made her feel like a. A real woman. Too bad. Too. Bad
She’s sinned… the sentence is shocking… she isn’t able to do this again.. so why the long sentence?
Shame on you American ‘justice’ once again…
How about her families feelings who are now missing a mother?
The shame is punishment alone…. male or female.
Have consensual sex with a teenage male of legal age who is your biological son separated from you at birth – 30 years in prison
Hire an assassin to murder the mother of your daughter’s school friend so that your daughter can make the cheer-leading squad – 8 months in prison
Great moral priorities our justice system has.
I think the guy who wrote this article is just jealous because he wasn’t the lucky young man.
Yes dear, we get it. you’re a troll. you don’t like the site. you’re so witty and clever, your mommy must be so very proud of you
I miss anything, besides your obvious virginity?
You did miss one thing Travis, the fact that this guy can still work a keyboard after having a Labotomy, but its quite obvious that it has worked, because he’s talking a load of shite and thinks that its normal to be jealous of screwing a fourteen year old child. But don.t worry i’ve alerted the authorities and explained that the cabbaged mental patient their looking for will be easy to trace.
Heh no junior, in New Jersey 14 is a legal age of consent.
And based on the author’s posts I do think he has some repressed envy at not getting enough sex as a teenager – he even posted an article about a 19 and a 15 year old having sex and whined about it being “rape” and more BS, even though if the kid had waited about 4 more months (till he turned 16) it would have just been teenage romance instead of “horrendous rape”. How stupid can someone get?
As for whether or not she was his biological mother, that to me is irrelevant because the sex was consensual – it may have been statutory rape in his state, but if the guy was old enough to be able to legally consent in any state, then this isn’t the same as actual child rape – it’d be like giving alcohol to a 19 year old and comparing that to giving alcohol to a 5 year old – big difference. The main reason this story was even notable is because they were blood relatives, if this had been some hot teacher at HS then I bet you’d be envying the young guy too. Plus they didn’t grow up together thinking of themselves as blood relatives – they met when he was already a young man so the mental perception wasn’t there on either part.
In fact in Japan mother/son incest isn’t nearly as uncommon. if you think it’s weird then that’s fine, but some people think gay sex is weird or disgusting – and if someone who’s old enough to consent to sex wants to do that, then it’s not my business.
I’m a self-employed business owner and I bet I make way more money than you do.
Actually idiot I’m a libertarian and I don’t believe the govt should sentence someone to 9-30 years for something like this – that’s more than some people have gotten for murder or molesting children age 5 or younger.
14 is a legal age of consent in some states – therefore I don’t see this as a serious crime, the only reason she got the sentence she did is because they were blood relatives (even though they didn’t grow up together, and had no psychological perception of being relatives) – so this is an example of the govt handing out unjust sentences due to the “icky” factor more than the actual extent of harm done.
So very rarely have I read a comment I care so little about.
“Actually idiot I’m a libertarian and I don’t believe the govt should sentence someone to 9-30 years for something like this ”
Don’t care.
“that’s more than some people have gotten for murder or molesting children age 5 or younger.”
“14 is a legal age of consent in some states – therefore I don’t see this as a serious crime, the only reason she got the sentence she did is because they were blood relatives”
that’s not enough? I don’t care what the age of consent is in your backwoods state that seems to justify the attraction you have to your fourteen year old neighbor or whatever, the fact is she tracked down her and banged her son. So I’m assumuing you support incest, then.
For the record, since you seem to hang your hat on the “14 is old enough in some states” argument, the age of consent in Michigan (you know, the state where they are) is sixteen. So even if it was “consensual” as you seem to hope, she still broke the law
How’s criminalizing consensual incest any different than criminalizing homosexuality? if two people who are old enough to legally consent in their state want to do that, then why is the the govt’s business? As long as they aren’t bringing kids into the situation, then it only affects them – I wouldn’t be fore inbred couples having kids due to the genetic problems, and how it might hurt the kids’ self esteem.
I’m aware that in Michigan the age of consent laws are higher, but 14 is still old enough to be legal in some states, therefore like I said this was a fairly minor sex crime IMO.
if you don’t know the difference between criminalizing incest and criminalizing homosexuality, I feel bad for you, honestly. homosexuality has no right to be criminalized the way it has been, but it’s also totally irrelevant to this discussion. You’re merely putting up smokescreens.
“if two people who are old enough to legally consent in their state want to do that, then why is the the govt’s business?”
Because that’s the thing. He WASN’T old enough to consent to anyone, much less his “mother”
I have to wonder if it had been the father who tracked down a 14 year old daughter and slept with her, instead of a “hot” mother (and I’m using that term as loose as possible) tracking down the son, would you be putting up this big of an argument?
“I’m aware that in Michigan the age of consent laws are higher, but 14 is still old enough to be legal in some states, therefore like I said this was a fairly minor sex crime IMO.”
Well congrats, you live in a state where it’s perfectly acceptable for you to bang 14 year old’s to your heart’s content. But again: Seeing as how the age of consent is NOT 14 in Michigan but 16, the age of consent in other states is totally irrelevant, much like most of your arguments
I think your missing the point. She tracked her son down, then had sex with him. At the age of 14 his brain is still maturing and learning, and a stunt like this will probably have detrimental effects on that boy in his life. In fact he could already be fucked up because of what she did. The worse part about it was it was her son who told someone, she was quite prepared to carry it on and not give a flying fuck about the effects this would have on her son. She may not have brought him up, but she had a moral responsibility to that boy and what she did was wrong. I just hope the boy isn.t too badly fucked up by that selfish slut. And when you start comparing sentences other people have got compared to this sentence, i think she should have got more and the ones you talk about should have got more. Im glad the judge that sentenced her, handed down a sentence appropriate to the crime she committed and hope one day the boy can move on with his life with as little damage as possible.