UPDATE: Dharun Ravi And Molly Wei
GRAND JURY HANDS UP 15 COUNT INDICTMENT AGAINST ROOMMATE OF TYLER CLEMENTI.
from the article by Kelly Heyboer and Tom Haydon – The Star-Ledger (NJ)
In the days after Rutgers University freshman Tyler Clementi committed suicide, his roommate tried to cover up his alleged role in using a webcam to secretly watch Clementi in an intimate encounter with another man, prosecutors said today.
Dharun Ravi, 19, misled investigators by deleting text messages from his phone and changing an incriminating post about the webcam on his Twitter account, Middlesex County Prosecutor Bruce Kaplan said. The teenager also allegedly tried to convince friends not to testify against him.
A grand jury indicted Ravi, of Plainsboro, on 15 counts today as prosecutors for the first time labeled the case a hate crime. If convicted of the most serious charges, Ravi could face five to 10 years in prison, Kaplan said.
Clementi jumped off the George Washington Bridge Sept. 22, shortly after learning about the webcam. His story became national news as an example of gay bashing and cyber bullying.
The indictment handed up by a Middlesex County grand jury in New Brunswick included two counts of invasion of privacy and two counts of attempted invasion of privacy Ravi was charged with shortly after Clementi’s suicide.
But the indictment also included several new charges related to Ravi’s alleged attempts to dupe investigators by deleting text messages and replacing
one of his Twitter posts with a new statement designed to mislead police. The additional charges include three counts each of tampering with evidence and hindering his own apprehension and a single count of witness tampering, the prosecutor said.
Ravi was also indicted on several bias charges. Investigators said he targeted his roommate because Clementi was gay. Though prosecutors did not give specifics, they said the evidence of Ravi’s bias crimes date back to Aug. 6, the day he learned his roommate’s name.
“The grand jury indictment spells out cold and calculated acts against our son, Tyler, by his former college roommate,” Clementi’s parents, Jane and Joe, said in a statement released through their attorney.
“If these facts are true, as they appear to be, then it is important for our criminal justice system to establish clear accountability under the law. We are eager to have the process move forward for justice in this case and to reinforce the standards of acceptable conduct in our society.”
Steve Altman, Ravi’s attorney, said tonight he has to review the indictment with his client. Ravi, who withdrew from Rutgers, has not resumed his
education. But he hopes to enroll in another school later this year, Altman said. He is free on $25,000 bail.
The charges against Molly Wei, the other student accused of spying on Clementi, were not presented to the grand jury “at this time,” Kaplan said. The case remains open and the charges against Wei are still pending, he said.
Kaplan did not say if Wei, 19, of West Windsor, would testify against Ravi if the case goes to trial. Wei’s attorney did not return calls for comment.
Investigators said Ravi was in Wei’s room Sept. 19 when he used her laptop to remotely turn on a webcam in the room he shared with Clementi on Rutgers’ Busch campus in Piscataway. Wei and Ravi, who were both graduates of West Windsor-Plainsboro High School North, allegedly watched two men in a romantic encounter.
“Roommate asked for the room till midnight. I went into molly’s room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay,” Ravi wrote in a Sept. 19 post on his Twitter page that was later taken down.
Prosecutors identified the men as T.C. and M.B. to protect their identities. Clementi’s family identified him as one of the men. M.B. has never been publicly identified.
Altman, Ravi’s attorney, has previously said the images viewed on Wei’s computer showed nothing more than hugging and kissing and were never transmitted to others.
Two days later, Ravi allegedly tried and failed to use the webcam to catch Clementi in a second private encounter with the same man after telling friends where to log on to watch. Clementi allegedly found out about the webcam and filed a complaint with Rutgers officials Sept. 22.
The 18-year-old accomplished violinist from Ridgewood committed suicide later that day after posting “jumping off the gw bridge sorry” on his Facebook page.
State Attorney General Paula Dow hailed Ravi’s indictment as a step to stem bigotry.
“This indictment is an important step in this heartbreaking case,” Dow said. “New Jersey’s bias law recognizes the terrible harm caused by acts of bigotry and hatred and imposes harsher punishment on those who commit such crimes.”
Steven Goldstein, chair of Garden State Equality, New Jersey’s largest gay rights organization, also praised the indictment as another step in the campaign against bullying.
“We continue to mourn the loss of Tyler Clementi deeply. Today is a day of justice,” Goldstein said.
To view the Dharun Ravi’s iChat log at full size, just click on the image.
71 Comments »
Good.
I hope that rapist closetcase gets convicted soon. Like, he was too nervous to change in front of his room mate but he had a cam pointed to his bed? Definitely the kinda creep who violently sexualize other people as a power play.
Christ, I’m so nervous about getting room mates now. Maybe I’ll get those bed curtains, the one that has a wreath like thing at the top as opposed to four posters that you hang from the ceiliing.
Srsly, that rapist closetcase did it twice, even if it wasn’t gay bashing, it was /sexual assault/!
FIFTEEN COUNTS. Wow. I am impressed! I doubt he’ll be charged on all of them (hardly anyone is), but damn that’s good. It’ll hopefully make it harder for him to escape scot-free. Especially, I wish them luck wht the bias charge.
However, I hope his little co-asshole Molly doesn’t sell him out for complete immunity. She needs to go to jail too.
I’m talking with a young gay friend of mine and she wants to kill them in about sixteen different ways. I said I wanted them alive, in jail and miserable forever. I guess either one works.
Pretty soon he’ll know what it feels like to see your every move video taped and scrutinized when he’s locked up. What an immature jerk.
What’s taking so long to charge Molly Wei? Both of these disgustoids are in great need of punishment. I just hope she’s spending every minute of every day waiting fearfully for the axe to fall.
They’re probably hoping to have her testify against him.
This story makes me sad on so many different levels :( RIP Tyler…. I wish you had not had to die for this issue to be taken so seriously.
it’s about time that these types of internet related issues are being dealt with by the law…my son had a fake myspace made about him where the person impersonating him threatened to rape and murder another boys .. mother and little sister..the boy showed up at my house and attacked my son..who had no idea what it was about, the police wanted to charge the boy that came to my house..we talked with him and he showed us the page with the message to his inbox saying “i’m coming over as soon as you go to work and i’m gonna rape your mother and little sister and kill them” … anyway he felt horrible and would cooperate with the police to find out who it was..the L.E. in my town said…”we don’t really care about that..it’s basically a non-issue” that when and if my son was seriously injured then we could look into it further..this is disturbing…
Did the person who attacked your son go to the police first and get such a cold response?
I long for the day when two gay people making out is a non-issue.
Unfortunately there are some that enjoy the shock value and when something simple as such does not attract attention, they’ll ramp it up. I worked with 2 gay people (possibly 3) at one company….. one was really cool and I enjoyed working with him and no one gave him any problems.
The other one had to be “in your face” much of the time, and was the first to cry about anything.
Fred, I know you have lots to say and have been a regular commenter here for a long time, but you are such a disgusting homophobe it makes my teeth hurt.
Kate,
Do you deny that there are some gay people who are into the concept of shocking people by their behavior; behavior that is to most people not shocking at all, but does not preclude them from trying in vein to shock and offend ? Sorry, but it happens, and just because someone mentions it that DOES NOT make them a “homophobe”.
People need to also be cognizant of the fact that there are some people who disagree with the concept of homosexuality based upon their moral and religious upbringing. – Are they are “disgusting homophobes” ? Are all Jews, Muslims, and Christians who honestly can not accept or condone the lifestyle of homosexuality all “Homophobes” ? – Certainly not, and to paint them as such makes you no better than the commenter whom you are railing against.
“People need to also be cognizant of the fact that there are some people who disagree with the concept of homosexuality based upon their moral and religious upbringing. – Are they are “disgusting homophobes” ? Are all Jews, Muslims, and Christians who honestly can not accept or condone the lifestyle of homosexuality all “Homophobes” ?”
Yes, they are. We done here?
Look – allow me to elaborate. If you don’t like gay sex, don’t have it, and shut the fuck up. It is explicit in your religion that you don’t judge others, because that’s not your place. Why not try that instead?
Absolutely! It would also be nice if the media stopped sensationalising gay PDA’s and making them the cheap and tawdry stuff of pubescent boy’s dreams, like the awful Britney and Madonna saliva- swap. (Madonna has about as much sexuality as a half- thawed fishfinger -she should know when to stop- and media orchestrations like that really dumb it down, as if being a lesbian means that you’re hot and charged up and blonde and buxom- whatever!) But back to the point- it shouldn’t be any more eye- boggling than watching a girl kiss a boy, should it? I feel that the problem that caused this poor guy to take a measure as drastic as killing himself goes a lot deeper than a pair of spoiled cyber- bully brats (who should fry!)
Good news then, here in Los Angeles, nobody cares about PDA anymore really. It’s great! (as far as people not making an issue, but Its still uncomfy to witness whether thier gay or strait, lol) Hopefully Soon enough they will overturn prop 8, and thier civil rights will be intact.
I am glad to see that you expect the same level of behavior from all – many people come down harder on straight people, but won’t say anything to gay people…..
I have a problem with “hate crimes” – it makes the prosecution’s job way too easy as “hate crimes” has a vague definition. What Ravi and Wei did to Tyler is a crime, plain and simple and the law should apply equally to everyone equally.
Seriously, lets say that I had the hots for a fat chick and my roommates found it hilarious….. while it’s not quite the same thing, embarrassment is relative. In high school I remember one student freeking out because of a zit on his nose and there were days I went to school resembling a peperoni pizza and had little problem with such.
Hate should ENHANCE penalties, but because “hate” is subjective, hate should not be a crime in itself.
Thus if I attack 2 people, one being elderly, for example, hate should net me a stiffer assault penalty.
Getting back to the issue at hand, even IF these two are found innocent of any crime (like if they get a jury of KKK members or the jury pool goes to the Westboro Baptist Church) the fact that so much evidence was destroyed and altered along with the facts that they misled prosecution should net these two something. In this case I will favor adding a “hate component” if it’s found that what they did was with malicious intent (which is looking quite obvious) then the “hate component” should be a multiplier…..
Ravi’s wedding and subsequent nuptials should be put on DVD and sent to his family and friends so they can share in the joyous moment……
Hey Ravi – every hear of the Golden Rule?????
There is a converse to it – “Payback is a bitch”
or
“what goes around comes around”
Enjoy the honeymoon!
Hear hear! The Golden Rule is my favorite, and I make every conscious effort to live by it. If everyone did, even with normal slip-ups (we all slip up and have bad moods) the world would be so much better! For those of you who don’t understand what we’re talking about, “Do Undo Others” should jog your memory. ;) Even on PYSIH, I try to follow it. If I’m being a total ass, I would expect someone to point it out in the same way that I do!
Not that I want to see it, but I think part of Dharun’s sentence should be spent buck nekked on a stage in the middle of a Vegas night club, dancing to “Baby Elephant Walk” while covered in pink glitter. We’ll see how he likes to be humiliated in public.
Preferably the stage at a local prison – then they auction him off for a date!
I have issues with hate crime laws too. All crimes are motivated by hate in some form, like raping woman, killing spree, or terrorism.
Agreed.
I am always a bit nervous about hate crimes…… I have a cat named Tigger who runs out a lot – I am wondering when I will offend someone when I call out his name….
I have no problem with “gay” people..its when they try to hide it from their families, neighbors, friends that issues stem it seems. Let them be. As long as they are not hurting anyone.. let them be.
The problem with that is that people will NOT let them be. Coming out to your friends and family is extremely traumatic, especially if you were forced to remain ‘in’ because your family is a bunch of shitheads. I agree that it shouldn’t be like that, but that’s the reality for many people.
In an ideal situation, people could be with whomever else they wanted to, provided that the person is a consenting, human adult. What happens in my bedroom is no one’s goddamned business unless I invite them in. If I want to rappel around my bedroom in a tutu, a clown nose, hip-boots and a snorkel while shouting all of the lines from every Monty Python movie in existence and call it FOREPLAY, that’s my choice and it’s up to my husband to leave or stay and man the confetti canons. ;) Ideally, no one outside of my bedroom should care enough to say that they care either way, though requests for youtube vids might be expected. Do you like chocolate or vanilla? I DON’T CARE! YAY!!! :D <<< that's how it should be (I like pineapple coconut…mmmm…) "Gay" would be as normal as 'straight', and 'coming out' wouldn't be a term at all. If only…
I fully agree with you. What I mean is, sometimes in order to “fit” into main stream or feel somewhat “normal” leads people (lots of people, no catagory necessary) to drugs and drinking. THAT becomes a problem. Makes people make unwise choices, and unable to deal with their decisions made while under the influence, like killing someone, or losing control. Sad.
Once an adult, like my dad told me .. “you are the only one that has to wake up with your conscience tomorrow morning” oh, and the one when I was 13… “dont do anything you dont want written on the front page of the paper” LESSONS that should be taught in every home~
I have a great dad.
Why are they “gay” and not just gay? And why would they be hurting anyone by being gay, any more or less than you would being “straight”?
I hope the day comes when you don’t have to proudly announce you don’t think people who are different than you are okay as long as they’re not hurting people.
I’m straight and that sounds like a slightly politer form of bigotry to me.
well said
I’m glad they’re charging him with multiple offenses. Hopefully he’ll be convicted of at least a few of them, preferably with mandatory jail time.
To be honest though, I don’t think he should get more than a few years, maybe 5 or so. What he did was an absolutely horrible invasion of privacy, not to mention so fucking juvenile and stupid. And he should absolutely be punished. I can’t begin to imagine the embarrassment and humiliation that poor Tyler must have suffered.
But I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say they drove him to suicide. I think to take such a drastic action, he must have already been troubled on some level. I wish Tyler could have seen that the whole thing reflected badly on Ravi, not on himself. It just showed Ravi to be a piece of shit homophobic loser who probably can’t get his own date. But then maybe that’s the kind of thing that you need a little life experience to realize, and Tyler was just a kid.
Horrible fucking situation. I feel terrible for Mr. and Mrs. Clemente. I hope I never have to know what it feels like to suffer the loss of a child.
I can’t stop thinking about “M.B.” and how he must feel in all of this. I hope he is o.k.
As far as I am concerned, all crimes are ‘hate crimes’. I understand and agree with our need to educate people about bullying, but I don’t think a crime should deserve to be prosecuted more harshly if it stems from ‘hate’. What’s rape – a ‘love’ crime?
The label “Hate Crime” is unnecessary, and I honestly think it’s harmful. Heck, it’s almost redundant! I don’t think the Gay/Lesbian/Bi community benefits from the term any more than minorities do. The people it singles out are the very people who need to be treated equally in the first place. You don’t fix inequality by raising one group above another – you fix it by EQUALIZING the situation.
Of course that leads into my argument about the unfairness of ‘Affirmative Action” and how it’s hurting people by raising them to feel entitled, instead of helping them to be productive, self-sufficient members of society… but that’s a discussion for another website. ;)
I believe that “hate crimes/bias crimes” exist as a way of legislators and law inforcement to try to make up for past (or current) bigotry on their part. It’s like they said “Okay, our bad, we take crimes against minorities seriously now! See, we have a law! Look at the shiny law!”
(I’m from Birmingham-by the time they dragged in some of the bombers of the 16th St. Baptist Church, they were old, sick and retired. Pols and cops love to act like they suddenly give a shit about people they’ve ignored for decades.)
If people could get their heads out of their asses about being bigots, we wouldn’t need the laws. But until then, it might add a few more years to a sentence and make some assholes feel important (and get reelected).
OH, well then if “Hate crime” legislation is purely for the sake of vengeance, I’m all for it. ;)
Don’t micromanage the source of my orgasms, and I won’t micromanage yours. If I was in charge of sex, everyone would own a vibrator. Shaped like a shark. With teeth and beady little eyes that watch every move you make so you can feel properly guilty about your sexuality, as God intended. That way, no one would have to get up in anyone’s business and everyone could just go fuck themselves. THAT, my friends, would be UTOPIA.
You know that vibrator would actually sell, right? You could make a lot of money off the people who have to feel guilty to get off!
New product idea-better patent it! :)
I intend to stockpile the proceeds to go towards my private island. Someday…. Mmmmm…..
Sounds like Dharun Ravi is a closeted homosexual who is aroused by it, not someone who had roommate issues.
I agree with you there. When all this came to light, his friends said he would record them doing all kinds of things he thought “funny”. I think he’s got a voyuerism kink in general, and some serious closet issues on top of that.
My class issues come out when I hear about stuff like this. Not just the bullying, but the privledge that Dharun and Molly don’t even seem to realize they had. They came from good families who could afford an excellent university like Rutgers, they were pretty, young, had their health and everything to look forward to.
…And they threw it all away for a “joke” that left a wonderful young man dead. I don’t feel sorry for Dharun and Molly, I just cannot believe that they didn’t think twice. They had no idea how much life was worth-theirs or Tyler’s.
I’m sure I will get roasted alive for this. Sure, the guy is a punk, and a rather despicable one, but this sort of thing isn’t a hate crime, and it’s ridiculously common.
As someone in university myself, and high school before that, this happens ALL THE TIME. And I’m not convinced it has anything to do with Tyler being gay. Young people are world experts at finding excuses to label someone as “different”, and socially destroy them. If someone dislikes you and has the opportunity to publicly humiliate you, they’ll take whatever they can get. Gay. Fat. Minority. Ugly. Poor. Promiscuous. Loner. Overachiever. Underachiever.
The problem with “hate crime” legislation is that it disproportionately protects some victims more than others. Clearly this guy deserves jail for what he’s done, because filming people naked when they expect privacy is a crime regardless of the victim. But he shouldn’t get less or more punishment than if he had filmed Tyler with a female, or any other person.
“The problem with “hate crime” legislation is that it disproportionately protects some victims more than others.”
That’s not the problem that’s the point. The law disproportionately protects those persons who are disproportionately discriminated against.
It is a problem, in some limited contexts. Even a straight, white Christian man can have hate crimes committed against them (by another race or religion), but such crimes are far less likely to be properly recognized.
I’d respectfully say that isn’t the way to look at it. If someone is a victim of a crime, they don’t care what “group” they fit into otherwise. They’re a victim, and deserve justice the same as anyone else. To put this another way, if someone burned down your house, it doesn’t cost you more suffering depending on what race you are. Assuming you were a straight white person, would you accept only 60% compensation for your loss? Of course not.
Minorities are not a “special case”; they’re the same as everyone else. If we make different rules for treating different people, we’re just separating people into different classes, the same as those we claim to oppose.
I still think this case is ridiculous. Only in very rare circumstances should someone (or multiple someones) be blamed for causing another person’s suicide, and that’s exactly what’s happening here: Trumping up as many charges as possible (on top of the invasion of privacy charges) to indirectly punish Ravi for Clementi’s suicide. I’m absolutely convinced that Ravi didn’t expect or want the man to commit suicide. In my opinion, this is an abuse of the legal system.
Would the case be getting this much attention, and would so many charges have been filed, if Clementi were still alive? Nope. Probably wouldn’t even have gone to court. Although Ravi technically isn’t on trial for killing Clementi, that’s basically why he’s there.
I’ll agree that it was a hate crime (although Ravi may have done the same thing to a straight man; who knows?), but basically this is a witch hunt. Everyone avenges the dead gay man against the mean bigot, and can then return home feeling self-righteous and sophisticated.
Is that a pattern we want to encourage? Do we want people to think that if they commit suicide, the law will punish the people who “drove them to it”? I hope not. If we rush to avenge everyone who offs themselves because of a little bullying (extreme bullying is another matter entirely, in that case I do believe the bullies should be charged), that is the message we’re sending.
In my opinion, the message should be: “Killing yourself is wrong. It hurts your family, your friends, robs you of your future, etc.” Not, “Want to get back at that bully? Kill yourself! Especially if you’re a minority of some sort, because then people will milk it for publicity and you’re sure to get your revenge.”
Also, as someone who has gay friends and family members, you can eat me if you think my opinion is secretly motivated by homophobia or some such nonsense. It’s not gays I’m targeting, but people who play the living shit out of the minority card to milk a situation for all the publicity it’s worth.
I find myself both nodding and shaking my head when reading your post, and that is not conducive to the well-being of my neck-muscles. You make some good points, but at the same time… well, let me break it down for you:
“I still think this case is ridiculous.” – I disagree.
“Only in very rare circumstances should someone (or multiple someones) be blamed for causing another person’s suicide” – I agree.
“and that’s exactly what’s happening here: Trumping up as many charges as possible (on top of the invasion of privacy charges) to indirectly punish Ravi for Clementi’s suicide.” – Please excuse the grammar nazi here, but this part of the sentence doesn’t correlate with the first. If that were exactly what was happening here, this would be one of those rare circumstances, which contradicts the rest of your post.
“I’m absolutely convinced that Ravi didn’t expect or want the man to commit suicide. In my opinion, this is an abuse of the legal system.” – Is your conviction based on belief or knowledge? Do you know Dharun Ravi personally, or are you projecting your own opinions and thoughts on what you would think in a similar situation on him? Don’t get me wrong, I can understand how you might end up with such a conclusion. Being a perverted voyeur doesn’t make you a murderer. In fact, I think you might be right. The fact that Dharun Ravi went into a panic afterwards, and tried to hide his involvement in the tragedy could be the sign of a guilty conscience, but is more likely to be the reaction of a guy who suddenly found himself in the midst of an unexpected shitstorm. I mean, he was just having a couple of laughs, right?
“Would the case be getting this much attention, and would so many charges have been filed, if Clementi were still alive? Nope. Probably wouldn’t even have gone to court. Although Ravi technically isn’t on trial for killing Clementi, that’s basically why he’s there.” – True. Sexual harrassment isn’t as sexy to prosecute as a case involving death.
“I’ll agree that it was a hate crime (although Ravi may have done the same thing to a straight man; who knows?), but basically this is a witch hunt.” – What is it with you and witch hunts? ;-) Ah, just fucking with you. But I agree with one thing – who knows, or gives a shit for that matter, what may have happened if it had been a straight guy. Hate is hate.
“Everyone avenges the dead gay man against the mean bigot, and can then return home feeling self-righteous and sophisticated.” – I’m not sure that’s the point here. And there you go again with the generalizations.
“Is that a pattern we want to encourage? Do we want people to think that if they commit suicide, the law will punish the people who “drove them to it”? I hope not. If we rush to avenge everyone who offs themselves because of a little bullying (extreme bullying is another matter entirely, in that case I do believe the bullies should be charged), that is the message we’re sending.” – Here I disagree. Think of it this way; considering the attention this case has been getting, what message would be sent if the prosecution decided not to press any charges? And frankly, the notion that suicidal people would, because of this one case, suddenly think that, hey, I’ll show those bastards by offing myself, is ridiculous.
And again, I think you’re missing the point here. It’s not a question of avenging anybody, it’s a question of adjusting the moral compass. Think of it this way – would you like for the entire world to be able to watch a video of you fooling around in various positions with your inflatable elephant? Didn’t think so. Now, say you were suffering from depression and the plastic phantastic is the only one who loves you, how would you feel seeing yourself on the internet, and reading all the comments?
That, in my opinion, is closer to being the point here: that people should respect the privacy of others.
“In my opinion, the message should be: “Killing yourself is wrong. It hurts your family, your friends, robs you of your future, etc.” – I completely agree.
“Not, “Want to get back at that bully? Kill yourself! Especially if you’re a minority of some sort, because then people will milk it for publicity and you’re sure to get your revenge.” – Some might see it that way. But I hope and think most won’t.
“Also, as someone who has gay friends and family members, you can eat me if you think my opinion is secretly motivated by homophobia or some such nonsense.” – Don’t worry, that vibe was conspicuous by it’s abscence. Well, at least for me.
“It’s not gays I’m targeting, but people who play the living shit out of the minority card to milk a situation for all the publicity it’s worth.” – I agree.
It’s not gays I’m targeting, but people who play the living shit out of the minority card to milk a situation for all the publicity it’s worth.” – I agree.
Yes, yes, yes, yes…..more yes, yes, yes, and yes. And if anyone missed it
Y
E
S
http://users.elite.net/runner/jennifers/yes.htm
You know what really gets me about this story? Tyler committed suicide due to humiliation, so now. every single time this story is mentioned in the media they say the same phrase over and over and over and over “videotaped having sex with a man”. This is what drove the man to kill himself, how does the media think it is ok to beat it into us every time they mention it. Its like spitting on his grave in my opinion. We get it!!! There is now no one who doesn’t now about this private act, which the victim so wished to keep secret, yet not a mention of the story is made without dragging it out. I don’t care how much justice these two students get, there will never be justice for Tyler as long as that is all he is ever remembered for. The media cannot shake off this black mark, they suck, one and all. What gives them the right to take the original crime and re-commit it every single time they air the story for profit. They deserve to rot in hell.
Not sure Dharun Ravi And Molly Wei are hell-worthy.
It’s really not their fault that Dhuran’s roommate was so unbalanced.
It’s really not their fault that Dhuran’s roommate kicked him out of his room so he could play patty-cake with some other guy.
I would have been ticked off if my homosexual-roommate needed a “quicky” and locked me out of my room.
Come out of the closet for goodness sake! They rent rooms by the hour!
Would you have been ticked off if your heterosexual-roommate needed a quickie? Would you have preferred that they have sex in front of you or would you rather be warned that ‘Human things are about to take place, you might want to go see a movie for a couple of hours.”? It happens all the time in college, and anyplace else where you’re living with another person in a single room. I see nothing wrong with that at all. Tyler was Gay, Dharun’s a pussy and that is what Dharun’s problem was in the first place.
Why did they pick on Tyler, Amy? Was it to laugh at him, to make themselves feel better? What was their motivation? Was it to make him feel accepted, to try to bridge a communication gap, to try to find common ground with another person? They did something terrible to another human, and that other human reacted. That really IS their fault.
I think that Tyler went overboard in his reaction, but at that age there are a lot of people who live overboard. Obviously Dahrun is unsure of his own sexuality, and uncomfortable with it as well. Otherwise, why would he ever have thought it would be a good idea to do this? He meant to cause embarrassment, if not outright pain. Why should we dumb down the results for the sake of formulating a punishment? Because someone is upset that their purposeful, specific actions had terrible consequences, and they don’t want to own the responsibility.
They didn’t kill Tyler, but they damn well treated him as a subhuman because they were uncomfortable with his sexuality. FUCK them, it’s not THEIR sexuality to be comfortable or uncomfortable with.
Dahrun is a pure asshole who really needs this serious bitch slap. I think the punishment is highly appropriate, I only wish it was humiliating for him. He and Molly did what they did on purpose. Their lack of foresight isn’t an excuse. They have to pay for the consequences of their actions, and honestly I don’t feel a bit sorry for either of them. Perhaps it will help them to grow the fuck up, and perhaps it will help people who think like you do too, to see that they’re being punished for their heartless cruelty.
This.
Amy, you’ve never lived in a college dorm, have you? Roommates kick each other out for the same reason ALL THE TIME. I don’t know Ravi, but I would bet that if Tyler was straight and had a girl over, Ravi would not have broadcast it to the world or thought it was hilarious in any way.
The fact is that Ravi intended to humiliate Tyler, and he succeeded. Now he has to face the consequences of his actions. He also has to live with the fact that his actions in some way, no matter how small, led to a young man taking his own life. Personally, I wouldn’t be able to sleep, knowing that I was at least partially responsible for such a tragedy. But then I wouldn’t have done it to begin with.
Ravi is an asshole, plain and simple.
Amy, are you really that naive, that you’ve never hears of a roommate asking for privacy for an hour or two so he/she can “get busy”. How do you thing Ravi know what Tyler was up to? They had made arrangements ahead of time – that’s why the camera was repositioned, and the little perv had announced what was going to happen before it happened.
Remember this line in Ravi’s iChat:
or this one
Ravi deceived Tyler for the express purpose of humiliating him, so he could have a few laughs. Period. Stop being so insensitive.
Really if they had done the same thing to a heterosexual couple, there would be NONE of this uproar.
The roommate should have found another place to fuck.
That’s just stupid, troll boy – he was in his own room. Go troll somewhere else, you’ve been “outed” here. LOL
Actually, I’d be pissed about it. If someone had done something like that to me with my hetero boyfriend, I would have blown up at them. Privacy is privacy. You don’t film and broadcast someones intimate moments for the same reason that most of us don’t feel comfortable watching our parents poop – it’s just wrong. You know it’s wrong, I know it’s wrong, everyone knows it’s wrong.
He didn’t foresee the consequences, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t work for them or that he doesn’t deserve to own them. He knew he did wrong, that’s why he erased the posts. Jeezus, that’s why he did it in the first place – it was only ‘funny’ to him because it was wrong!
Max, would you please delete the first of these two repetitious posts? I misspelled Tyler’s name throughout, and that’s just disrespectful. :P
Okie dokie – all set
Thanks. :)
(I) deserve to die.
there, I like that better
-editor
*sigh* not as much as you do…
Ya know, that’s mean and full of jerkiness. I only smoke when I’m really stressed out, and for some jackhole on the intertronz to tell me they hope my fag dies, well, that just boils my potato.
Fuck you, sir. I hope someone kicks you in the neck.
Bwahahahahaha…Ok vc, I did not see that coming..many thanks for the random burst of laughter, much needed today!
LMAO!!!
I can’t help but assume (but most likely right) that Mr. Cigarette Fornicator and Ravi are just too ashamed that they, too, are those that yearn for significant others/play things that are of the same sex… hence the mockery and hate. Quit trying so hard to make yourself look like a big, bad heterosexual.
Fred Phelps is that you?
This seems to me like Ravi and Wei are being blamed for Clementi’s suicide. Clementi committed suicide for his own reasons that we will never know and likely what happened on that fateful day (him finding out about the webcam) is the last in a long line of events that happened to someone already suffering from depression. Ravi and Wei should be charged for what they did: illegally film their roommate without his consent and broadcast it to their friends. That type of thing happens all the time in college. It happened when I was in college, when my brothers were, and even my dad has a story about his fraternity brothers spying on a guy and a girl having sex. It’s not nice, but it’s not worth 10 years in prison.
There is no way that anyone could have foreseen Clementi killing himself over this. Had he lodged the complaint with the school and pressed charges instead of killing himself, Ravi and Wei would have received whatever punishment they deserve in the present situation. No one is to blame for Clementi’s suicide.
I feel terrible for Clementi and think that what Ravi and Wei did is despicable; however, using them as scapegoats for Clementi’s suicide is irresponsible and immoral. If I accidently ran over someone’s dog and they killed themselves, I should receive no greater punishment than if I ran over their dog and they bought a new one. And if that person happened to be gay and I mention that fact, that does not make it a hate crime. All Ravi did was mention that his roommate was making out with a guy. THAT IS HIS ONLY MENTION OF IT. If he replaced guy with girl, it would make no difference.
You obviously have not been followng this case. There were tweets made as early as August when he first found out he had a gay roommate. Why exactly was this twitter worthy to him? He painted himself into a bias charge with that very first tweet. People are so involved in all this social networking that the forget about the fact that once its in ink [digital or real] its there to stay and may bite you in the ass down the line.
I’m sick of this “if he were straight” bullshit. You’re right. It wouldn’t have happened if he were straight because being straight is “normal” and would have held little fascination to someone as easily amused as Ravi.
If you’re going to comment, do the world a favor and educate yourself first.
There is a reason it took so long to have him brought up on a bias charge, and hopefully it will stick. Tyler was targeted by his roommate from almost day one because of his sexuality. Plain and simple.
I fully support hate crime laws. It is too general to say that all crimes are hate crimes. Rape and murder can be crimes of passion. Murder can be nothing more than business. Or some wierdos sex fantasy. Theft is about desperation or the thrill. Some pedophiles claim to “love” whoever they have been molesting. Hate crimes bear that title because someone is being singled specifically for something that makes them different from the main stream. Laws like this need to be in place or we will end up like South Africa where they rape and stab lesbians in an attempt to turn them straight, these people have no laws specificaly potecting them or others like them from harm. And that is where hate crime laws come into play, to let you know that targetting an individual based upon sex, race or orientation is not tolerated and you will be punished.
LakeEffectKid72, I wish I had a dozen more regular posters just like you. I find it hard to believe that there are people out there who can excuse Dharun Ravi’s behavior as no big deal and put the lion’s share of the blame for Tyler Clementi’s suicide on Tyler himself.
It’s even more ridiculous to, as you explained so eloquently, believe that this could just as easily have happened to a straight guy, or that no one would have cared if Tyler happened to be straight. That sounds way to close to what reverse racism is (He only got the promotion be cause he was Black/Hispanic/Gay)
Tyler Clementi: Rutgers Cyberbullying Case Reaches Partial Conclusion
http://abcnews.go.com/US/rutgers-cyberbullying-case-defendant-molly-wei-cooperates-prosecutors/story?id=13546931
Molly Wei gets a plea deal? That sucks! She’s required to complete 300 hours of community service, undergo cyberbullying counseling, and take classes about “how to respect people of different backgrounds.” You think that’ll make her a decent human being? I have my doubts.
I think you’re right, Cleo. The whole concept of “respect” sounds like something that is way beyond her learning capabilities. She’ll probably go through the motions and then, once everything cools down and people forget about this story, go back to being the asshat she always was.
*sigh*
IMHO by the time a person graduates from high school their character is fully formed. They gain knowledge and experience, but they cannot grow a conscience or a sense of morality if they haven’t formed them by then. Lessons in respect for others are a waste of wind for the likes of Molly. She’ll sit through them and promptly revert to her original asshat ways. That’s her character after all.
I hope this dude has a son, and his son is gay. It would change his life I’m sure of it. I don’t think it matters that he was gay, even if he were with a woman, it was rape with a webcam which resulted in death. So charge his ass with criminal negligence resulting in death. I wish they could, who the hell cares now a days who is gay or not? There are so many gay people, they should all just gang up together and straightbash this dude!
Ravi got 30 days in jail, apparently.
–
A New Jersey judge sentenced a former Rutgers student to 30 days in jail for using a webcam to spy on his roommate kissing another man.
Dharun Ravi, 20, was convicted on two second-degree bias intimidation charges in a case that garnered national headlines because his roommate, Tyler Clementi, committed suicide after the spying.
Clementi, 18, jumped from the George Washington Bridge three days after learning that a September 2010 encounter with an older man was seen by a computer-mounted camera Ravi had set up in their dorm room. The case highlighted the issues of gay bullying and teen suicide.
The judge also placed three years of probation. Rave faced a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. The judge spared the prison time and did not recommend Ravi be deported to India, where he was born and remains a citizen. Ravi was also ordered to get counseling and to pay $10,000 towards a program to help victims of bias crimes.
Judge Glenn Berman said he would not recommend Ravi be deported to India, where he was born and remains a citizen. But Ravi was ordered to get counseling and to pay $10,000 that would go to a program to help victims of bias crimes.
A jury in March convicted Ravi of hate crimes for spying on the encounter through a webcam, and for trying to get others to do the same when the man visited again. Ravi was not charged with causing Clementi’s death.
Tyler Clementi’s family asked the judge today to sentence Dharun Ravi to prison time.
The Associated Press reported that Clementi’s father, Joseph Clementi, told the judge during the sentencing hearing, “One of Tyler’s last actions was to check Ravi’s Twitter page” and noted that his son checked his roommate’s Twitter page 37 times before leaving the Rutgers campus and driving to the bridge where he jumped to his death.
Ravi did not speak during Monday’s sentencing hearing.
The lead prosecutor in the case had asked for “a period of imprisonment” in her sentencing brief but according to Reuters did not seek the maximum 10-year sentence. The prosecution team wrote that Ravi “has failed to accept any degree of responsibility for the numerous criminal acts he committed, and shows no remorse for the same, despite significant evidence pointing directly at him.”
Ravi’s defense attorneys sought probation for Ravi, noting that he has no previous criminal record. The defense team also is appealing the verdict and seeking a new trial.
Before the sentencing, Ravi’s parents and Clementi’s parents each made appeals.
Ravi’s parents attended a rally recently at New Jersey’s State House in Trenton of several hundred supporters, many of them Indian or Indian-American, the Associated Press reported. The protesters said that Ravi, an Ultimate Frisbee player and computer whiz, should not have been convicted of hate crimes because he does not hate gay people and that prison is too harsh a punishment for someone who did not mean to hurt anyone, according to the AP.
His mother, Sabitha Ravi, aimed her words at journalists at the rally, saying that those who covered the trial should speak up against her son being sent to prison. “You were quiet there. Why don’t you wake up now and bring some justice for Dharun?” she asked in the AP story.
The AP report said Clementi’s parents had communicated mostly through written statements or by reading prepared statements after court proceedings. In one, they said they wanted Ravi to be held accountable but that he need not be subject to a “harsh” punishment.
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Why is Molly being charged just for letting him use her computer? Plus f the guy hadn’t killed himself then at worst this would have been an “asshole” thing to do, was wrong of them but this is an overreaction because most people wouldn’t kill themselves over something like that, and as far as we know this was a one-time incident, not constant stream of bullying.